If you're still interested in brewing NEIPA style beers, much like others have commented: go for 1:2 or 1:3 sulfate to chloride ratios (more chloride), add oats in the 10-30% range; the beta glucans will really aid in the mouthfeel as well as the haze factor, ditch the piney hops in favour of fruity/citrusy varieties, and don't be afraid to ferment warm or choose yeast varieties that produce esters naturally (ie British strains) to accentuate the hop flavour, a big focus recently is the yeast ester and hop oil interplay for this style. Cheers!
I've heard others complain that Mosaic lends more to a piney flavor and hence it doesn't lend well as people think in the common Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy. Although, it seems to work. Juiciest beer I ever had used that combo
Really enjoy your vids...we all did our take on NEIPA's and it was our first experience. Certainly learned some things and will improve on them next time. Cheers!
Great vid, brewed my 1st NEIPA in early June. My end results were similar (color & aroma falling off quickly). Next time, I'm going to use hop bags for all additions, as I suspect that some of the 60 minute & whirlpool additions contributed to a slightly dank aroma (used Citra, Galaxy & Amarillo hops). Dry hopped last 3 days of secondary fermentation.
This style keeps a lot longer if you can minimize/remove o2 exposure. Aroma hangs around longer, flavor stays around longer...the style just really benefits from closed transfers. It also really helps to purge the headspace with co2 after Dry hopping.
Agreed. I don't think the sample we tried on camera was the best representation of the beer. I will be better about minimizing exposure to air next time. - John
Brew Dudes For what it’s worth, I like Pilsner base malt over two row for the softness. A small amount of flaked wheat and a small amount of honey malt for color really comes out great.
My fav style this summer! The color browns due to the hops oxygenating. You definitely need to close transfer to a purged keg. And try a warrior, citra, mosaic with cryo. Huge diff in flavor brightness, freshness and punch! Thanks for sharing, guys! Was curious if the sugar added a serious sweetness to it? Cheers!
Hi - to answer the sugar question, the sugar was added to dry out the finish and add some higher ABVs. The sugar is fully fermentable so no sweetness is left in the finished beer from that addition. Love these hops - can't wait to brew this one again. - John
Try ~70% Pale Malt, ~15% Malted Oats, ~15% Flaked Oats. You can even up the % of both/either. Also, try 1318 London Ale III. Great base to smash hops into.
You should try some melanoiden malt.. I really like the color and maltiness it adds.. I am about to "let the juice loose" soon myself. Haven't brewed the style yet.. Cheers DUDES! 🍻 (7.0 % ABV 😉)
Interesting. I may try that after my removal of Munich. I like the really witbier looking ones. If that doesn't work, I'll get the melanoiden going. THANKS and brew that juicy MF. - John
I've read that dry hopping with high cohumulone hops (Galaxy) can lead to a dry, tannic, polyphenol mouth feel like cold stewed builders tea. I maybe over sensitive to Hop Astringency because I can taste (or feel it) even in some shop bought beer. I don't like the colour or the haziness of this style either. Having made one batch in the past I'm back to sessionable APA.
@@BrewDudes use 9lbs pilsner, 1.5 lbs rolled oats, 1.5 lbs flaked barley, 1 lb flaked wheat. Mash at 160 for an hour. 1 oz whatever you want bittering hops somewhere around 5-9% AA for 60 minutes chill till 120 start whirlpool hop stand add 1 oz lemon drop 1 oz mosaic 1 oz cascade. Chill pitch white labs juice yeast wait 3 days dry hop with one oz lemon drop 1oz mosiac 1 oz galaxy, ferment 3 more days remove hop bag ferment 2 more days and you should end up somewhere around 4.7 abv and tastes like every thing you could ever want on a hot day and the mouthfeel is like a smoothie.
I never brewed a NEIPA, but what I've heard is a lot of homebrewers claiming that they tend to change the color really fast after bottling, getting darker and hazier, maybe due to a high oxidation level.
Could be - we'll see how my NEIPA does in competition. I bottled it a couple of weeks ago and the comp. is in late October. It could change dramatically in that timespan. - John
For my NEIPAs, unless you have incredible bottling procedures with co2 purging, closed transfer, etc, its just naturally going to happen. NEIPAs are really better suited for kegging
Do you use any software when designing your recipes? I use beersmith and it’s extremely helpful to nail down recipes. My first NEIPA was 4 srm but Over Time darkened probably due to oxidation and hop aroma faded a little more over a week or so.
I used BeerTools when I don't have a lot of research or examples to formulate my own recipe. That's a good idea to nail down the color for the next batch. Brew on! - John
That IPA looks like dirty dish water. But that's a New England IPA. I actually prefer unfiltered beers. I'm sure this thang was a Juicy delight. I just brewed my 1st New England IPA tonight. 2 Row , Flaked Oats , 40L , Centinneal , Amarillo , Citra. Yummy. You guys are a great team. Love your videos !
Mike, thank you for addressing the colour. John would you say the muddy colour is mainly Munich derived? If so, why wouldn't an octoberfest with Munich be muddy coloured? Or~ is that just a sh*t ton of hop haze?
Greg Cruickshank so the munich provides color. So, it is giving some light copper notes. The dry hopping plus the flaked grains are causing the haze and muddiness.
@Ecdycis is right. I was commenting on more of the color tones of the beer. The extreme haziness is definitely a product of the hops/flaked grains and even the yeast since I was dry hopping in the middle of primary fermentation. - John
I added 10 grams of gypsum to my water to get to a balanced profile (1:1 Sulfate to Chloride) but that was based on my using a combination of our tap water and some distilled water. Our water in MA is pretty high in Chloride - I have read homebrewers trying to get a 2:1 Chloride to Sulfate ratio to emulate New England water. I think it's worth brewing twice with both water profiles, a balanced one and a Chloride forward one, to see which one tastes better to you. Believe me, if you make a good NE IPA, it won't last long and you'll be planning your next one ASAP.
Brew Dudes Thanks a lot for the tip. Check this out though, I just brewed an all citra IPA with higher gypsum sulfate to chloride ratio 2:1 mashed at 156-158F on accident but it attenuated down to 1.007! After a 5 day dry hop with citra and a little Galaxy, it's hazy as soup and juicy, smooth as hell with amazing mouth feel at 7.3% with no boozy taste. How the hell did I pull that off? Oh yeah one more thing to note it was pretty clear after 8 days before I dry hopped. Why crazy haze after?
Anyone know why NEIPAs only last about a month? I bottle my beers and have had to throw a lot away. I've only recently found out about the short shelf life....but wondering why, and also wondering how breweries like Cloudwater get around it as they can so much of their beers, and you can't have a beer out in the market with a 1 month shelf life, surely!
Oxidation. Bottling a NEIPA is almost impossible unless you have a fully controlled co2 purged system. NEIPAs are begging to be kegged, and close transferred. ANY bit of oxygen you introduce post fermentation, will kill a NEIPA
Due to the high degree of Oats usually. Oats have magnesium in them which acts as a catalyst for the oxidative reactions. Some people report good success using some antioxidants like ascorbic acid or Brew Tan B. Bottling NEIPA is tough though because you pick a up a ton more oxygen than you ever thought you did with your "regular" beers. Good Luck. -Mike
my goto neipa grist is 2row, 3ish lb of oats , and under 1lb of honey malt. then hops i might do under and ounce at 60, then 6to8 Oz at flames out with 45min whirlpool, then 6oz for dryhop.
So your sulfate to chloride ratio was 1:1? Im sure you guys stated in an earlier video to do a 3:1 sulfate to chloride ratio for hoppy beers. I usually go 300 ppm to 100 ppm for my IPA's
The more I researched into NEIPAs, the more I saw pro and home brewers were reporting that they were using water where the ratio was reversed - where the chloride content was higher than the sulfate. Some recipes I saw called for a 2:1 Chloride to Sulfate ratio. It makes sense to me since our tap water in MA is high in Chloride. I went with a 1:1 because it was easier for me to do that with my water source plus distilled. I think the high Sulfate to Chloride ratio is what is typical on the West Coast. The NEIPAs I have had don't have the bitterness of the 90s West Coast IPAs. Give that water ratio a try and let us know what you think.
Meh - haters gonna hate as they say but we don't roll out these videos for them. We listen to the people who are engaging with positivity and passion. Brewing on. - John
Nice! I use only giga yeast and I truly love this strain!
Yes, I was really happy with the results. - John
I’m late on this video but I just found you guys. Absolutely love the channel! Keep up the great work!
Never too late. Thanks for the comment and Brew On.
If you're still interested in brewing NEIPA style beers, much like others have commented: go for 1:2 or 1:3 sulfate to chloride ratios (more chloride), add oats in the 10-30% range; the beta glucans will really aid in the mouthfeel as well as the haze factor, ditch the piney hops in favour of fruity/citrusy varieties, and don't be afraid to ferment warm or choose yeast varieties that produce esters naturally (ie British strains) to accentuate the hop flavour, a big focus recently is the yeast ester and hop oil interplay for this style. Cheers!
Thanks xmonks - looking to brew another NEIPA this weekend so will keep all of those points in mind.
I've heard others complain that Mosaic lends more to a piney flavor and hence it doesn't lend well as people think in the common Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy. Although, it seems to work. Juiciest beer I ever had used that combo
Interesting. That's a good combo. - John
Really enjoy your vids...we all did our take on NEIPA's and it was our first experience. Certainly learned some things and will improve on them next time. Cheers!
Excellent - learning and doing (and doing and learning) is the part of the fun. - John
Great vid, brewed my 1st NEIPA in early June. My end results were similar (color & aroma falling off quickly). Next time, I'm going to use hop bags for all additions, as I suspect that some of the 60 minute & whirlpool additions contributed to a slightly dank aroma (used Citra, Galaxy & Amarillo hops). Dry hopped last 3 days of secondary fermentation.
First time I've heard of somebody doing secondary for an NEIPA
i didnt know that..why is a secondary not used w NEIPAs?
Yep, now we can go back to doing videos the way we used to.
This style keeps a lot longer if you can minimize/remove o2 exposure. Aroma hangs around longer, flavor stays around longer...the style just really benefits from closed transfers.
It also really helps to purge the headspace with co2 after Dry hopping.
Agreed. I don't think the sample we tried on camera was the best representation of the beer. I will be better about minimizing exposure to air next time. - John
Brew Dudes For what it’s worth, I like Pilsner base malt over two row for the softness. A small amount of flaked wheat and a small amount of honey malt for color really comes out great.
Nice - worthy of a change in future brew.
My fav style this summer! The color browns due to the hops oxygenating. You definitely need to close transfer to a purged keg. And try a warrior, citra, mosaic with cryo. Huge diff in flavor brightness, freshness and punch! Thanks for sharing, guys! Was curious if the sugar added a serious sweetness to it? Cheers!
Hi - to answer the sugar question, the sugar was added to dry out the finish and add some higher ABVs. The sugar is fully fermentable so no sweetness is left in the finished beer from that addition. Love these hops - can't wait to brew this one again. - John
Sounds like a tasty beer, it didn't hang around in your glass long haha. cheers!
Yeah - so drinkable. I gotta slow down on camera - John
Try ~70% Pale Malt, ~15% Malted Oats, ~15% Flaked Oats. You can even up the % of both/either. Also, try 1318 London Ale III. Great base to smash hops into.
Love it. Will try for 3rd attempt. - John
looking forward to that followup vid :P Been wanting to brew this style for a while now.
Cool - yeah, we finally got it going. People love this style.- hope you found the video informative. - John
Nice chair fermenter! :D
This sounds delicious! New sub here! Thanks dudes :)
Thank you! - John
You should try some melanoiden malt.. I really like the color and maltiness it adds.. I am about to "let the juice loose" soon myself. Haven't brewed the style yet.. Cheers DUDES! 🍻 (7.0 % ABV 😉)
Interesting. I may try that after my removal of Munich. I like the really witbier looking ones. If that doesn't work, I'll get the melanoiden going. THANKS and brew that juicy MF. - John
Holy shit that looks like mud
I've read that dry hopping with high cohumulone hops (Galaxy) can lead to a dry, tannic, polyphenol mouth feel like cold stewed builders tea. I maybe over sensitive to Hop Astringency because I can taste (or feel it) even in some shop bought beer. I don't like the colour or the haziness of this style either. Having made one batch in the past I'm back to sessionable APA.
Thanks! Stay tuned, we'll be posting a video about a sessionable APA next week. - John
Use a Witbier recipe and just use VIPA yeast and your choice of hops.
Yeah, that's the plan I have for an adjustment on this thing. Great minds - John
@@BrewDudes use 9lbs pilsner, 1.5 lbs rolled oats, 1.5 lbs flaked barley, 1 lb flaked wheat. Mash at 160 for an hour. 1 oz whatever you want bittering hops somewhere around 5-9% AA for 60 minutes chill till 120 start whirlpool hop stand add 1 oz lemon drop 1 oz mosaic 1 oz cascade. Chill pitch white labs juice yeast wait 3 days dry hop with one oz lemon drop 1oz mosiac 1 oz galaxy, ferment 3 more days remove hop bag ferment 2 more days and you should end up somewhere around 4.7 abv and tastes like every thing you could ever want on a hot day and the mouthfeel is like a smoothie.
I never brewed a NEIPA, but what I've heard is a lot of homebrewers claiming that they tend to change the color really fast after bottling, getting darker and hazier, maybe due to a high oxidation level.
Could be - we'll see how my NEIPA does in competition. I bottled it a couple of weeks ago and the comp. is in late October. It could change dramatically in that timespan. - John
Maybe you could make just a quick note on one of your future videos on it. And good luck on the competition! Cheers!
Makes sense. May just comment here too.
How did the beer look and taste come the comp?
For my NEIPAs, unless you have incredible bottling procedures with co2 purging, closed transfer, etc, its just naturally going to happen. NEIPAs are really better suited for kegging
Brew dude John, were you at Kane brewery today?
Nope, must have been my doppelganger. - John
Hi guys! Did you finally brew one without Munich? I'd love to see that!!
Not yet, but its on a growing list of things to dig into in 2018. Cheers-Mike
I use Vienna. Adds a malty sweetness without any color.
Do you use any software when designing your recipes? I use beersmith and it’s extremely helpful to nail down recipes. My first NEIPA was 4 srm but Over Time darkened probably due to oxidation and hop aroma faded a little more over a week or so.
I used BeerTools when I don't have a lot of research or examples to formulate my own recipe. That's a good idea to nail down the color for the next batch. Brew on! - John
That IPA looks like dirty dish water. But that's a New England IPA. I actually prefer unfiltered beers. I'm sure this thang was a Juicy delight. I just brewed my 1st New England IPA tonight. 2 Row , Flaked Oats , 40L , Centinneal , Amarillo , Citra. Yummy. You guys are a great team. Love your videos !
Thanks! Yeah, brewing up a new one. Lots of Mosaic and Galaxy in mine. Can't wait. - John
Mike, thank you for addressing the colour. John would you say the muddy colour is mainly Munich derived? If so, why wouldn't an octoberfest with Munich be muddy coloured? Or~ is that just a sh*t ton of hop haze?
Greg Cruickshank so the munich provides color. So, it is giving some light copper notes. The dry hopping plus the flaked grains are causing the haze and muddiness.
@Ecdycis is right. I was commenting on more of the color tones of the beer. The extreme haziness is definitely a product of the hops/flaked grains and even the yeast since I was dry hopping in the middle of primary fermentation. - John
Brew Dudes right but the laziness changes red and copper tones to more of a brown.
True that - Brown isn't what I am after.
How many grams of cacl and gypsum did you add? I'm trying your recipe with distilled water. Any recommendations? Thanks guys love your videos!
I added 10 grams of gypsum to my water to get to a balanced profile (1:1 Sulfate to Chloride) but that was based on my using a combination of our tap water and some distilled water. Our water in MA is pretty high in Chloride - I have read homebrewers trying to get a 2:1 Chloride to Sulfate ratio to emulate New England water. I think it's worth brewing twice with both water profiles, a balanced one and a Chloride forward one, to see which one tastes better to you. Believe me, if you make a good NE IPA, it won't last long and you'll be planning your next one ASAP.
Brew Dudes Thanks a lot for the tip. Check this out though, I just brewed an all citra IPA with higher gypsum sulfate to chloride ratio 2:1 mashed at 156-158F on accident but it attenuated down to 1.007! After a 5 day dry hop with citra and a little Galaxy, it's hazy as soup and juicy, smooth as hell with amazing mouth feel at 7.3% with no boozy taste. How the hell did I pull that off? Oh yeah one more thing to note it was pretty clear after 8 days before I dry hopped. Why crazy haze after?
Anyone know why NEIPAs only last about a month? I bottle my beers and have had to throw a lot away. I've only recently found out about the short shelf life....but wondering why, and also wondering how breweries like Cloudwater get around it as they can so much of their beers, and you can't have a beer out in the market with a 1 month shelf life, surely!
Oxidation. Bottling a NEIPA is almost impossible unless you have a fully controlled co2 purged system. NEIPAs are begging to be kegged, and close transferred. ANY bit of oxygen you introduce post fermentation, will kill a NEIPA
Hi Thomas, do you why NEIPAs are so susceptible to oxidation?
Due to the high degree of Oats usually. Oats have magnesium in them which acts as a catalyst for the oxidative reactions. Some people report good success using some antioxidants like ascorbic acid or Brew Tan B. Bottling NEIPA is tough though because you pick a up a ton more oxygen than you ever thought you did with your "regular" beers. Good Luck. -Mike
my goto neipa grist is 2row, 3ish lb of oats , and under 1lb of honey malt. then hops i might do under and ounce at 60, then 6to8 Oz at flames out with 45min whirlpool, then 6oz for dryhop.
Yeah, I think 2 row would be good. I may need to get a lighter color base malt to get the look I want. Brew on! - John
So your sulfate to chloride ratio was 1:1? Im sure you guys stated in an earlier video to do a 3:1 sulfate to chloride ratio for hoppy beers. I usually go 300 ppm to 100 ppm for my IPA's
The more I researched into NEIPAs, the more I saw pro and home brewers were reporting that they were using water where the ratio was reversed - where the chloride content was higher than the sulfate. Some recipes I saw called for a 2:1 Chloride to Sulfate ratio. It makes sense to me since our tap water in MA is high in Chloride. I went with a 1:1 because it was easier for me to do that with my water source plus distilled. I think the high Sulfate to Chloride ratio is what is typical on the West Coast. The NEIPAs I have had don't have the bitterness of the 90s West Coast IPAs. Give that water ratio a try and let us know what you think.
Totally, I'll brew it this weekend and see whats up.
Ours was 270/70 and water came out pretty good
What idiot gave you a thumbs down love you videos man.... Cheers
40/11 brew mean people.. I always think to myself.. "Stupid is as stupid does"
Meh - haters gonna hate as they say but we don't roll out these videos for them. We listen to the people who are engaging with positivity and passion. Brewing on. - John