The Tuesday Tune Ep 13 - Fox's "budget" Fit Grip damper
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- It seemed like only a matter of time until one of the major manufacturers developed a light, cheap, reliable fork damper with true shimmed valve performance. Fox's primary trailbike offering, the Fit4 damper cartridge - functionally an updated variant of its largely unloved CTD FIT cartridge predecessor - has got low friction nailed, along with (slightly) more support and somewhat more useful compression adjusters. The expanding bladder system and SKF damper sealhead means it gives up nothing to anyone on the smoothness front. All in all, while it's not for everyone, it's not bad.
However, while the CTD Fit cartridge attracted its share of criticism from riders and the media, it was a beacon of sheer brilliance compared to its Open Cartridge brother, found in the Evolution Series CTD forks. Cheaply made, with little regard to durability, smoothness, outright performance, adjustability or even serviceability, the Open Cartridge CTD damper may well be the product that Fox are the least proud of ever producing. Being fair and putting this in context though - initial expectations were relatively high, because Fox usually do their homework quite thoroughly, and it caught a lot of consumers off guard when they purchased a bike with Fox plastered all over it, that didn't deliver the performance or durability they were expecting from the Fox brand name. You'd be more than a bit upset if you bought a Mercedes AMG that blew up in the first week you owned it too. Had this kind of thing come from some of their competitors - and it routinely does - perhaps the media and market response would have been a bit less negative. Nobody wants a Koeniggsegg that's slower than a Ford Mustang though.
Regardless, a lack of shimmed rebound and a pressed-together compression assembly, with an oil-ingesting sealhead and lack of effective volume or pressure compensation meant that there really was no polishing that turd - it couldn't be made to be reliable or to perform very well without changing pretty well every part in the entire damper. And that wasn't for lack of trying either - we prototyped dynamic bleed compression assemblies and shimmed rebound pistons for these, but the cost of fixing every issue simply became too high to be realistic.
Anyway, the good news is that Fox have listened and built the Fit Grip damper for their more budget-conscious forks. Calling them low-end would be doing everyone a disservice because Fox don't actually cater to the low-end market per se, but they are Fox's lower-end damper right now. Especially in light of Mike Levy's recent review of the Performance Series 34 featuring this very damper, we thought it'd be appropriate to dedicate this week's Tuesday Tune video to investigating the innards of the Fit Grip cartridge here in the Vorsprung Suspension workshop.
Our conclusion? Simply put: it's a MASSIVE improvement over the previous generation Evolution-series Open Cartridges. While the compression assembly is a little basic and doesn't have a true shimmed valve as such, the adjustment is effective and the lockout/climb switch is cleverly executed. Meanwhile, the rebound assembly is a fully functional and effective shimmed valve with a wide range of adjustment. As you'd expect from its lower pricepoint, it's not quite as refined as the Fit4 or RC2 cartridges, but with decent performance and being designed in such a way that we expect better reliability than ANY other damper they currently make, Fox have done a solid job on the Fit Grip damper.
I just want to thank you. I ride motocross and really didn’t understand the concept of high speed rebound until I watched your series of videos. Superbly done and easily understandable for a layman. Thanks
Thanks so much. First source that made me understand the Grip cartridge
This was the best Tuesday Tune! Please more fork and shock teardowns this winter!!
Awesome! I look forward to these every Tuesday!
Where's the super mario intro... f***ing youtube. It's still gold.
This is much like 350CR DBC cartridge, with a better compression knob (though uglier) and with no customizable compression shim stack. And 350's are butter, so these must be too.
The shim stack section at 6:43 on the end of the shaft is unscrewing itself from the shaft on my Rhythm. I'm hoping some Loctite will keep it together this time. I know it's come undone because the lockout stops working. Weird.
Can you do a video about the new Charger RC damper found on lower-end Pike, Lyrik, and Zeb forks? It seems to share a similar construction to this Grip damper, with an IFP instead of a bladder.
There really isn't much news about it.
Maybe RockShox will follow fox's route and switch to IFP damper in all of their forks...
This needs the theme song.
Awesome to see the internals of my fork without me having to tear into it just yet! Definitely feel better about what I got with my new YT bike.
Curious if there is any reason or additional plushness to be had by using a lighter cartridge oil? Currently on a 150mm version, no volume reducers (other than big blobs of grease in the air chamber that I'll probably clean out and reassemble) but still not using all the travel. As always, searching for small bump/chatter compliance. I'm a dirt bike guy recently back into mtn bikes so I may be expecting too much from a bicycle vs a 200 lb KTM.
Hey Scott I just got a YT with a fox 36 and grip damper. I’m wondering if you found any solutions to improve small bump compliance? I’m a dirtbike guy as well and agree that the grip damper is a good system but has some room for improvement. In order to get the mid stroke support I’m looking for I have to run enough air that I lose some small bump compliance and don’t use the last 10% of the travel. Any tips would be appreciated!
@@EvanShowsMTB I would put 1 or 2 volume reducer and reduce pressure a little, you'll get more small bump compliance, but keep the bottoming out resistance.
@@andresamson8859 That's the setup I'm running now, it just feels like I'm riding lower in the stroke than I'd like up front
I'm kind of on the light side of things, would adding lighter weight oil help with the harshness I feel on small fast bumps? Tried just about anything except getting at the damper internals. Would a coil conversion work perhaps.
Do I have to bleed this or does it auto bleed after I change the lower fluid? I was rebuilding my fork and when I pushed it up it push fluid out the top. Does it suck it back up from the bottom?
Good question, maybe i missed something, but how will the oil get back into the cartridge?
I'm thinking the same question after squirting the fluids. I was changing the lower fluid. Should I also change the fluid inside that Grip damper?
Old post, but maybe for someone else:
1. My Grip1 damper does the squirt thing out the hole when you cycle it out of the fork. An actual expert can correct me but I think what's happening is bath oil gets into the top of the damper (not actually within the damping unit but above the IFP) thru the bleed hole, and when you compress the damper shaft it squirts back out as the IFP rises. One way you can tell is the amount coming out drops off quickly with repeat compressions, and on cycling it the damper feels normal-- smooth and fairly quiet. If the IFP O-ring fails it could let oil out of the damper, but then then it'd ingest air and you'd hear gurgling. The temporary squirt phenomenon shouldn't affect performance.
2. It won't suck any significant amount of fluid up from the bottom unless your bottom shaft seal is really worn, so you can't count on it to self-bleed, just eventually to vent excess if it picks a lot up over a long time and is close to hydro-locking. And yes it's a good idea to at least empty old oil out of the damper and refill if it hasn't been done in awhile; mine was pretty black. Not difficult if you can figure a way to clamp the shaft without harming it, to open the top.
Hi, I know I’m a bit late but I’m wondering, is the needle that the rebound cap sits on replaceable? There’s no info of replacing it whatsoever so I’m completely unsure, but mine has rounded itself on my fox 36 performance with the grip damper and I’m not sure if I’m gonna need a full new damper or if the little needle is actually replaceable
There is a major flaw with this damper, is that the dial shifts to locket if you ride fast rooty rocky terrain, or jump off stairs or just do a harsh bunny hop, the same goes for CTD.
great video, great explanations, I look foward to future videos.
can you make a similar video for XFusion silde boost 34 RC?
Hi guys do you have a strip and rebuild video for the original float open cartridge. I have a pair of 2008 Vanilla rl 140's that the prongs on the needle rod have been stripped by previous owner. I have taken it appart used the allen bolt to secure the rod allowing it to open and close now but still have no rebound damping! Any ideas?
Hi guys, maybe I am to late, but a try dont cost anithing, first and foremost thanks for the video and the explanation about this system, since it seams to be "forbiden" made some videos about the FIT Grip,even in the Fox website the video about how to peform a rebuild are retired. So I have a very simple question, I own a version with remote at "push to unlock" and they simply dont lock animore, since se system by itself should exit all the air, and even if you have to mutch oil they just got bloing out, the problem only can exist in the mecanical part wo efctivle block the oil to pass. I am rigth? And if I'am right wath kind of test and solution I can use? Do you guys have this kind of probleme already?
Hey Steve, great video as always. Here's a question: Going from RS LL tune to MM tune (old style non-debonair). What differences will it make and can you compensate elsewhere to reduce the differences? Cheers.
Ok so.......I have a 2013 SCOTT GENIUS 740 with a FOX 34 evolution CTD ,and SCOTT'S twin lock lever ,Do they make a version for this or can I modify this ?,really appreciate your help
Gibt's da auch ne deutsche Version von Video?
This guy looks like Taylor Kitch 😀
I have that evolution 32 fork and i want to replace that damper. What is better, just to replace damper or to replace fork and get better fork
So I'm buying a new stumpy that comes with a 34 rhythm and grip damper though it felt ok when I demoed it, I'm coming off a pike rct3. Is the chassis the same as the 34 and can I put a better damper in that fork?
is the compression shim stack even working when the dial is set to open? This looks like the shims only have movement in closed position.
Do u think I should switch my 2016 pike rct3 140mm for the 2019 fox36 rythm with grip 160mm? On my titus el guapo 29er. The frame can take a 160mm fork. I am planning to get one on a very good deal.
Is the only difference between the grip damper in the new marzocchi 58 and the grip 2 in the fox 40 the adjustment knobs for hsc and hsr?
How does compression damper compare to Motion Control DNA RL from Reba >2017? Can't find info if RS damper is true shimmed or not.
what are your thoughts on Manitous MC2 damper? would make a great tech Tuesday as its pretty unique.
Probably pretty good, but given that Manitou don't even currently have a distributor in Canada and virtually nobody up here seems to ride them (other than Dorados actually), chances of us ending up with one to pull apart are pretty low unfortunately.
Manitous are amazing forks, you should try one if you can
@@VorsprungSuspension Apologies for bumping a 7 year old video, but do you happen to know if the Rhythm 34 uses the same SKF sealhead as the other Fox 34 forks? Thank you
Thank You, I appreciate the thorough explanations. I now know what too look for when I open my damper.
I noticed the my trail position on the knob has move from its original click (fox 34Performace)FitGrip
example Open mode lies around 11oclock. Trail usually lies around 2 oclock. and firm mode around 4 or 5 oclock.
My trail mode has moved and now sits around 12 oclock, and open mode just to the left around 11o clock. My trail mode has moved its original sitting postion!
I was researching videos before i open the damper up. Have you experienced this in the past? It hard to tell if trail and open mode are still working properly, since they are so much alike. But i think all 3 positions still work....any advice?? Thanks again for the informative.
Hi, did you find any solution? I'm getting this kind of problem now
Do you see you see any aftermarket appearing for this fork? It seems the potential is there.
:)
Thanks for that, man! I think I'm having the exact problem that motivated the recall. I have a 2014 32mm Evolution fork 140mm travel. And from nothing the CTD selector started to get really stiff and the fork wouldn't block as good as before on the Climb mode. So I opened it and I trying to solve what the problem is. Can I fix the problem and reconstruct this damper and fork alone in my house? Or should I send over to service?
Just tore my wife’s fork apart, same exact problem. Shopping for this upgrade now 🤔
Great video
this system seems to me like the rs pure damper from sids and psylos. isnt it?
What's your take on Avalanche Cartridge?
I might have missed it in the video, but did you weigh the dampener itself? Does the weight difference have more to do the with dampener assembly or oil weight?
Hello, does the grip damper assembly need to be filled with oil prior to installation? Thanks
@@chrisgille669 Old post, but for someone else, the Grip damper is already full and bled with Fox 5wt teflon oil when you get it.
i would love to know if the compression is further adjusted in the rythm damper. you said it was limited but is there anything i can do to lower the compression damping other than an oil change?
If your adjuster is fully open you have virtually zero compression damping on those. Not sure why you'd less than that.
@@VorsprungSuspension thanks for the reply it felt super plush but just wanted to know if I could get any less resistence
@@VorsprungSuspension I'm a 125 pound twig, and I do wish that the compression was a bit lighter, although I do like the support that the overdamping has, but I would at least like the option to go a bit lighter when my arms are tired at the end of a ride. I heard that on the Marzocchi Z1, you could unscrew the compression cap, put the cap back on 60 degrees clockwise, and then take the compression adjustment to the minimum to get extra low compression. By any chance, would that work on the GRIP?
@@vivek_v I did this on my 36 rhytm with grip damper. Definetely feels less dampened. Will have to test on trails how it feels
What do you think of rockshox you guys
Isn‘t this the same as the GRIP?
any idea of the part # to convert the 130 mm to 140 mm on my rhythm ? bike is a 2019 fuel ex 8 , 29.
Flatzout 820-02-526-KIT
Flatzout I believe this is all you need. $35
+Vorsprung Suspension Thanks for these videos. I find them really informative and enjoyable. Question: Can you convert a Evolution CTD fork to this later system? Or would it be smarter to just replace the Evolution? Thanks again.
Yes you can convert your CTD damper to this one. Its 190€ for the FIT4 performance damper and 240€ for the FIT4 factory damper. Thats the price just for the damper.
@@Secna The Fit 4 and Grip are two different things.
@@th_js Yes you are right. To be clear you can convert your old CTD system to a new one but not to the GRIP damber only to the FIT4 damper.
@@Secna Okay
Hey man, thaks for the review, makes things clearer. I have a question for you: my grip damper on fox rhythm leaked a couple of ccs of oil from the top cap aduster knob as I carelessy unwound it(don't ask why:) So, what I've found is that compression dampening became kind of a slightly lighter tune after that. But I can compensate by winding it in half way or so (Oroginally the adjustment didn't do anything noticeble until it passed this half way) Is it ok to use it like this, or should I probably have the damper serviced and add the missing oil? Thakns for any advice!
Hi what happen at the end fith your fork? I`m looking for advice about this particular model