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How Lee-Enfield No.4 Forend Stocking-Up Works
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- Опубліковано 13 вер 2017
- Bloke takes his Lee-Enfield No.4 apart (a rare event, since unless you've got to dry a sopping wet rifle, no good can come of it) to show how the forend is attached to the metal. It's not obvious, and it's rather clever.
Also there's a few verbal digressions railing against the common unthinking myths, and the relative positions of SMLE's, No.4's and P14's in British shooting competitions back in the .303 days.
Patreon: / blokeontherange
Facebook: / blokeontherange
Here from 2024. I recently got a No 4 Mk 1 in a plastic sporter stock (for ridiculously cheap pricing) and I am working on restoring it to proper wood furniture. Your channel has been my first stop for learning about the design
"The enemy of good is better" Truer words were never spoke and with your permission I'll use this comment in the future. Thank you for another fascinating, simple to understand video on the Lee Enfield family of rifles.
My long branch Mk1* has been around the world several times and looks like someone has used it to knock nails in but at 73 it still shoots better than I can. I took the forend off once as I had a better as new fore end but the newer wood ruined the grouping, I went back to the battered old wood and it was like the rifle was saying "Ah thats better"
Thank you so much for the informative review. So basically the length of the wooden stock doubles to some degree as a bull barrel improving the harmonics. This concept is tricky as free floating is so popular. Sporterizing one of these for deer hunting could be a challenge as one may be inclined to shorten the forend. Great round , wonderful on deer and messerschmitts.
"Giving somebody the good news.." I love it
I like your dazzle camouflage shirt.
Thank you so much for these videos. It's great to know that a No.4 Mk.2 was approved as a suitable replacement for a No.4 Mk.1 forestock, and that it will work!
Thank you for this! Lucked into a Savage No4 MK1 that was “sporterized “. I am currently fitting a Savage NOS forend to her..
Good video. I’m restoring a sporterized 1943 Long Branch. The bore looks great I’m hoping it will shoot well.
I recently bought a 1943 Enfield that had a brand new barrel with an extremely Tight bore.....307 vs .311... been tinkering with it since my barrel really likes to whip. I bedded it in three places.. so far it's shooting just under MOA....
interesting Vid, I shot a number 4 @ bisley when I was a youngster for a few years in a row, as you know a 2 piece stock allows the front end to be made the same and the butt end to be made with different lengths to suit the length of pull of individual shooters,
Good video. I had a No4 that shot good when I bought it, but over the years the fore stock warped to where there was no muzzle pressure. I got a take off stock, put it on and was lucky enough that I didn't need to play around with the bedding. It tightened right up no problem.
I actually enjoy your videos .Honest without B.S.
Thanks
i'm loving the insight on these rifles, it really helps for when i get my hands on an enfield. will save me in time and frustration later down the line.
Thank you very much for the informative video. Bubba got into my rifle and this helped me correct his mistakes.
Just ordered an Enfield #4 thought Id look and see what I was getting myself into, been looking for one for a long time, your video was helpful.
That's a nice looking rifle. The patina is perfection. (I want it)
There's really nothing that I like more than watching your videos out of my mind on lsd.
Psychedelics really add a whole new dimension to UA-cam. I find blacksmithing videos can be especially exciting.
Chlorate I thought I was the only one who enjoyed educational videos whilst on psychs, thankyou pal
I just picked up a No. 4 mk 1, and the barrel is completely fixed at the front. I can't push it up, down, or in any direction. It's fixed as if the rifle were a K31 or a M39. I haven't taken the stock off, but looking at it, I see a piece of flat metal in between the stock and the hand guard at the first barrel band, or middle barrel band. Also, I see burlap type of material in between the stock and handguard in two places between the start of the hand guard and the first barrel band. The rifle came with an adjustable peep sight, where there is a little built in disc that you can turn to adjust the aperture size, and the whole thing is adjustable for windage too. The rifle itself was made in 1942 and the serial number is 28794A, with very little marks on the metal and wood. We'll see how it shoots. This is the first time I've purchased a No. 4 with a barrel that is completely fixed. But you are right, the rear of the main stock doesn't touch the receiver band, there's a ever-so slight gap that I can look through. Have you ever come across such a contraption?
Not seen one packed like that, which sounds rather like the Mosin way of doing it. But as I always say, shoot first before making any changes!
@@BlokeontheRange Will do! Thanks!
My rifle is a rescue project that I restored. The rear band that keeps the rear hand guard in place is slightly offset.
I figured they should both be flush with the stock but I can’t help but suspect if I might need to sand down the niche the rear band fits into a tad bit so it fits tighter
Excellent explanation as always, Bloke
I've always found the two piece stock system to be very good. It allows the weapon to be modular at the armorer level for length of pull, it's easier to make and replace, and it's easier to make properly with the grains going in the right direction. I suspect more nations would have adopted it if lumber was more of a concern for them
Good video. You can free float the barrel, but you must ensure proper tension at the action bushing and forward of the wrist and of course the draws. There many tricks to settle in 303's. A small piece of card board can turn you rifle into a tack driver.
Be well
I think it would be cool if you could get a sporter and restore it with full wood. I'd love to have a tutorial and reference!
Maybe look around for somebody who did, I think it's a good project idea. Here in Canada and the US, it's quite common to see people posting pictures of before and after of people restoring No.4s and No.1's that have cut down stocks. I kinda would like to do one myself just the experience, though I do not have that kind of cash to light on fire if I screw up...
I have no clue. Many might just not know the voodoo behind it lol. I'd like to know, I am mechanical guy that likes to work with his hands. Hunce why I like both cars and firearms.
There's where you come in! ;), You've had the best info on the No.4 on the internet.
I love your channel and learn a lot from you keep it up!
This is a very clever stock & mounting system, please take a few francs from the Patreon account and buy a proper screw driver set please.
I dont know if they have Poundland in Switzerland but it looks like Bloke spent at least one Swiss franc on that piece of cack.
I love the British but as owner of two MGBs the Brits come up with some interesting engineering ideas. Not always the best but usually works well enough. Would be interesting to see a bunch of LEs entered in the US military service rifle matches where the M16 now dominates.
Bloke on the Range That's what I would expect. The USMC shooting team tried to buck the trend but even they have pretty much given up on wooden stocked rifles. The M16 just dominates.
It's funny that people even raise this. Many modern precision rifles have separate butt-stocks, to absolutely no detriment.
Very educational! I have been thinking about building a classic Target rifle. Enfield L39A1 and I also like the swedish Mauser CG63 . Do those rifles have bedding at the end of the stock for a mid pressure or are they full float? Now after watching your video I may consider the full stock Enfield. I know they probably wouldn't be in the same class but does the full stock shot with the L39A1 with it's heavier Barrel? I would probably do a 308 conversion. for me it wouldn't be for competition it would be more for Target fun and hunting and the beauty of a classic. If I did a L39A1 it would be a clone I could get the CG63 original I see them in America for reasonable prices all the time. Thank you
The L39''s and CG 63's are fully floated.
@@BlokeontheRange Ok thank you
Are there any other target rifles similar to these that you think I should consider? For me it will be target shooting fun and hunting. But I'm not going to rule out some sort of vintage competition. I'm also considering the Springfield 1903 A3 and the Enfield 1917 what are your opinion on these versus the L39 and the CG 63? Thank you
10:33 ooh that is interesting, because I have a No.4 Mk. 2 with the extra swivel and no fore end contact. I though my Enfield was just a bit of a weird one, maybe not.
It seemed pretty accurate for a rifle which may or may not have "correct" bedding. It must be middle bedded. My Dad (much to my annoyance) once got all 5 shots within the bull of a figure 11, is that about 2 inch never really measured it?
Love the content !!!!
Are there any markings or features to identify a wartime free float?
I have a BSA 1944 that is in unissued condition that still was covered in cosmoline and I don't think was ever fired. It doesn't have any up pressure and very slightly bears on the left side, it shoots quite well although with about a 3.5 inch group at 100 yards with factory ammo, I have considered center bedding it but I very much hate to modify it, especially if it isn't warped and was just a wartime free float
It's probably a wartime freefloat indeed that's warped over time. If it's consistently 3.5" I probably wouldn't touch that tbh since it already shoots within spec. A removable shim of wood or cork sheet at the centre bedding position would be worth trying, cos you can always take it out if it doesn't help.
@@BlokeontheRange sounds good, I'll try the cork if I want to attempt better accuracy. I definitely will leave it alone regarding any irreversible modifications, thanks for the reply and tip
What do you think, Bloke? 1955 No. 4 Mk I still in the mummy wrap. Wise to detail strip to remove Cosmoline or best to wipe metal with solvent and let the wood sweat it out on the gun?
On the butt stock bolt, was that the leather washer that came out with it? Is that washer there to snug the bolt and keep the butt stock from wobbling? I have 2 enfield and the butt stocks are loose. Thanks.
The leather washer is to stop the oil bottle rattling against the bolt. On late SMLE's and No.4 onwards, there's a spring washer under the bolt head and you can just hoick out the leather washer and tighten.
On most SMLE's and anything earlier, you must take the forend off before doing anything with the butt bolt or you will split the forend!
I have just bought a Parker hale Custom No4 Mk2 Sporter. Do you have any tips on optimal bedding on that?
If it's got a shortened barrel, it sounds be bedded as normal around the receiver and free floating with respect to the forend.
Thanks for the gen. Any thoughts on how to optimally bed a Parker hale custom No4?
Should be bedded around the action and reinforce properly and free floated forward of the reinforce
Thanks!
From what I've read the butt was more expensive than the forend to produce, the forend was more labor intensive to fit but overall cheaper
I very, very much doubt that. The forend is made from a much larger (and hence more expensive) piece of wood and has soooo many more cuts on it, particularly criticle ones. Got a source?
Bloke on the Range
www.allaboutenfields.co.nz/no4s/no4-mk12-mk13-mk2-and-ftr/
The original source is peter laidler who was an armorer for the Australian army, he posts frequently on milsurps.com
I’m assuming you need to remove the front sight to remove that rear hand guard band?
No. You need to remove the front sight protector to remove the bands, but not the front sight itself.
Enjoy your videos. I am a bit of a noob to the Lee Enfield. I have always wanted one. I now have a 1953 No.4 Mk 2 in near mint condition. Bore looks like it was never fired. Has wear at barrel (bayonet practice?), and maybe one or two tiny character dings on the stock. Somewhere I read that a large percentage of these late production rifles were never issued. Don’t know if that is true. Anyway, my question is about the magazine release and bolt release tabs. They are stiff to the point of hurting to operate, and even then they are very hard to get the bolt to move past it or to remove the magazine. Is this a sign mine was hardly used and just needs to be broken in at the range? Thanks for any advice.
Sounds like the rifle's hardly used.
I don't think that they have pounds, shilling and pence anymore. Mushies are still available tho, just don't eat the amanita muscaria, they are slightly more demanding.
Great information! I have an all original Savage Mk1* from 1943 that I love. It shoots really well with HXP or my reloads and is my favorite bolt action to fire, bar none. Accurate even with the war time two groove barrel. I rescued a sporterized 1943 Maltby Mk1, later (FTR)'ed from a pawn shop years ago. I put the rifle together in original form, but the stocks need finishing and I need a new foresight blade. If anyone knows where I can order one by size, I'd love to know. Looking for a +.095".
What if my Forend is warped and the barrel is now free floating, is it possible to fix it by shimming under the barrel?
If the stock is wartime it might have been made that way as a wartime simplification. You can sometimes shim them, either at the muzzle bearing or at the centre (look up my vid on centre bedding) provided that the barrel does not touch the handguard. If the barrel bears on the handguard you will have a bad time :)
@@BlokeontheRange thank you!!!
My forestock is original to my No4 but is very loose. It wiggles back and forth when I pick up the rifle. I took it apart and the draws look fine. Could it be that the stock has shrunk and needs to be oiled? Thanks for the video!
Sounds about like the US Property Savage #4 my dad got years back, can't hit the broadside of a barn with it. We chalked it up to the free floated barrel having some sort of issue with the wobbly forend, looks like that is the problem. On the other hand we later got a Longbranch that is far and away a better shooter. We might have to dig the Savage out some time and give it another look.
Bloke, what are your thoughts on the Ishapore 2a1? I picked one up this weekend and am not sure if I want to refurbish it or leave it as is. The stock is fairly dark and a little banged up but there's not a speck of rust to be found and the bore is absolutely pristine.
I have a 2a1 (unfortunately sporterized to look like a fake No. 5 carbine, but I did get it cheap as a result) and love it. The stock on the 2a1 is dark on purpose; the Indians deliberately made the finish heavy and put that gloopy black paint on the metal to protect the rifle from humidity. If the heel of your stock looks swollen or has a replacement piece, that's common, too; oil would drip down while the rifle was racked and swell that one spot.
I have seen a No 4 Mk1 with black grip guards on the top. So the gun looks like a No.4 with black wood running along the barrel. It reads ROF (F) on the side, which leads me to believe that it was repaired with these stocks. Has anyone ever seen this?
You see mismatched wood quite a lot, particularly on Indian refurbs.
@@BlokeontheRange I read that somewhere else. Thanks a lot for responding, it is a major help having a resource like yours when navigating through a market like this. Very interesting. Liked and Followed.
Hi Mike nice Video and thx for sharing^^ Have waiting on Lee Enfield Videos from you. Do you have the books from Ian Skennerton? I already have ordered them (the Enfield Bible & the accurizing the lee Enfield) not cheap but I think worth it ^^ You have a nice Long branch with a mostly nice beech wood. The receiver on your No4 looks interesting kind of angularly on the right side where the Bolt cut out is?! Do you know why? Speed up production I guess? All in all good "Basic" Information. Had to look twice about "the" screwdriver.... (a little wtf comes in mind xD^^) # that moment you know you have a ton of better ones but not in reach ^^ I have spend my own No4 Mk1* Long branch a new wood stock a few weeks ago, take me a while to get the right information to fit it correctly (free floating etc.) but it goes out well, shoots good (max 2 inches mostly less @50m depends on me) I am happy with it. g patrik
Thank you for good content!
I have all ways wondered will the gun shoot better in case if we will make a full length barrel bedding along the foreend from the chamber area to the end of the stock? Will it stabilize barrel harmonics or will ruin it?!
Ruin it.
Free float from knoxform and add up pressure at tip and it shoots good.
Has that rifle got woodworm? Great video dispelling a lot of these myths. Send me your postal address and we'll post you some turnscrews, or at least a better hexbit driver! :)
How would you go about fixing a stock that isn't centered on the barrel? I just picked up a weird, early Mk 1/2 and I can't quite tell if it's centered on the stock properly.
If it's not quite centered, you might be able to fix it by steaming the stock, or by removing material where it's bearing laterally. The other solution is centre bedding, although that's not legit for pre-1945 service rifle (it's a post-war thing done at Indian arsenals during refurbs).
Are the smaller rounds any good for grouping at 25 yds? Even the 22lr looked a bit wide at 50 yards, but I know it's good enough at 25 yds. How accurate are the lighter rounds?
Yep, I have, I meant it to be under the one with the little flobert things.
Any tips for taking off a super tight stock? I just got a No4 Mark 1* and I can get the stock off just a bit, so where the front trigger guard screw housing is flush with the hole it sits in, but thats as far as I can get it. Trying to learn as much as I can about this rifle, and this video was a great help
Firstly, ask yourself *why* you want to take the stock off in the first place. Do you *need* to? If not, why do it? If you *really* need to, you've probably got the angle wrong since you've got to separate it from the angle of the draws at the back.
@@BlokeontheRange Part of it was there is a lot of dirt and grim underneath the wood/in hard to reach places, and I always try to give any surplus gun a good de-gunking. Second is the entire front stock upper and lower was quite loose despite all the screws seemingly tightened down, and I was trying to identify where the issue was and if I needed to add a shim or something to address the issue.
Wow okay, just tried it again after letting it sit for an hour or two and it popped off like butter. No idea what I did differently, but yeah it must have been the angle.
There you go :)
I didn't realise the retaining screw housing wasn't straight vertical. Anyway, love all your content man, appreciate the help, haha.
Shamelessly throwing this question in here. because this is your latest Enfield video. I need a night gun (Hog Hunting) with a night scope. Q; I wondered if you had any experience with Scope mounts for Enfields? I see 4 or 5 scope mounts for Enfields on the market. I have 2 Ishapores in .308 & a Canadian .303
Thanks for the quick reply. My two boys and I had a "game" at an abandoned Gravel Pit where we would run up a 35 foot tall gravel mound (with an unloaded rifle) then at the top load and hit a 8" x 8" target 5 times at 75 yards. A timed event. Years later, in bootcamp a DI asked my youngest where he had learned breath control. He told him "at the top of a gravel mound with an Enfield when I was 11" : ) as a dad it is nice to know you got even one thing right!
So, between this and your chat with the Aussie gent, I'm a bit confused. When you push up on the front sight block and feel the shift up, that's good? Or should it require a certain amount of pressure? or should it not move at all?
Depends on if it's a No.1 or a No.4. No.1 should be clamped hard between the top of the barrel and the nosecap. No.4 should shift up against about 2-6 (or 7, depending on what manual you're reading) pounds of pressure.
@@BlokeontheRange thanks so much. I've been doing living history and I've taken a big interest in learning to shoot well with these classic firearms. Waiting with baited breath for the rest of Brit Muzzleloaders videos you helped him with on the WWII musketry and putting together a classification outing for my "squad". Cheers from Wisconsin.
Soo it is normal for the barrel to have play up and down? When its in the stock because mine does knock around a bit
Sounds like your stock's warped or Bubba free-floated yours if it's a rattling good fit in there...
I recently got a No. 4 Mk 1/2 from the Ethiopian guns that recently came into the US. It was rearsenaled in the late 1950s so the bore is in beautiful shape but I'm worried the bedding may be buggered up, as the barrel centers to the same location fine but does not exert pressure downward on the sock the way you described. Is it possible that during the rearsenaling it was center bedded due to warped wood? And does anyone know if there is a book out there that describes the mechanics of the No 4. and its bedding so I could better understand my new to me rifle?
It's possible it's stocked up in the wartime fashion, so free-floated, or if the forend warped. Could be centre bedded if it's an Indian refurb.
@@BlokeontheRange I heard a rumor that the rifles from Ethiopia may have spent some time in India and some had parts from POF so I'll take a look at my front stock this weekend to try to pin down what bedding mine has. Thanks for the reply and also thank you for all the videos on your channel! It's refreshing to see a prospective on firearms from outside of the United States!
Would you happen to know why a Mk1* Longbranch might not have the cuts in the top part of the fore end? Was it on some rifles but not others?
Thank you. Was worried it had been restocked at some point.
Not that I can find. It would be next to the model, arsenal, and production year marks?
Can you make the same video, but for the SMLE? (No.1 Mk3* in my case). I've been fighting accuracy issues since I bought it two years ago, and running out of ideas!
I've mentioned it in the past, I did a comparison vid which might have been on TFBTV. The Instructions for Armourers might help you: www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=307-Instructions-for-Armourers-1931-(Part-2-Small-Arms)
Needs up pressure on the front stock even if its sporterized.
Thanks guys! I got no notification that anyone had replied!
I got the issue resolved with some advice advice from a guy in Australia. He told me exactly where and how much gasket paper to install it. A piece above and below the barrel did the trick and now she's a tack driver!
Bloke, how do modern rifles like an AR-15 with a pencil weight barrel avoid the issue of barrel whipping if they are free floated?
Bloke on the Range Thanks for the excellent answer. I was curious because no one says "Don't free float your pencil barrel AR" today.
As it turns out, even a pencil barrel isn't all that thin!
Might help, might not: ua-cam.com/video/beaBDC8iS-E/v-deo.html
Thanks for that insight, Bloke.
Modern vibration simulations.
what do you mean by "fettle"?
Can a number 2 stock fit on a no 1?
A No.2 is just a No.1 in .22lr so is identical other than barrel, bolt head and striker.
@@BlokeontheRange thank you!
I don't know about that shirt....
It's very hard for me to understand your speaking? I thought this was about stock bedding?
This was about how the bedding works. Not how to set it up yourself.
These guys tho are a couple of hipsters whose sum of experience hovers between cappuccino and a straight black. I could be unusually wrong because no one else had ever given me a heads up about the mythical and wonderful k31, better than sex! (With a VW)
They both have engineering backgrounds and approach guns from the gun nerd perspective. Everything I've seen so far from their channel is logical and based on either book fact or reasonably well set up experimental models.
Your voice is strange for mi. Hahaha
YOU DONT LOOK LIKE A GUY WHO HAS EVER GIVING SOMEONE "THE GOOD NEWS" 😂🤣😂🤣... MAYBE YOU'VE DITCHED A BOYFRIEND BY TEXT.... Oh.. You little devil..
BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your not smart enough to know what the hell your doing or talking about.