@@51WCDodge Yes, it was a sad day when I surrendered my honey coloured number 4 for a SLR with wooden furniture. I like a long rifle with a bayonet on the end. Call it the Corporal Jones syndrome..............
@@johnlustig4322; Can you specify more about "Corporal Jones?" I'm guessing that it is similar to what we used in the US Army - "Private Snuffy" - meaning, "dumbass." 😆
@@wallaroo1295 Corporal Jones is a character in a very popular British comedy sit com, called "Dad's army" from the 1970's, which even endures as repeats on TV to this day. One of his popular catch phrases was "they don't like it up'em." This was a reference to his bayonet and the enemy, in particular the Germans, during the first world war. The main aspect or flaw of his character, is for him to panic at the slightest sign of a crisis or set back to the unit.
@@johnlustig4322 I was three when you got your Enfield A good gun for shooting rabbits Well so thought my Dad in ww2 On leave they had to take them home with them. He wanted to get food for the family so shot at a rabbit He missed and the shot went through a few hedges across the back road right passed the Vicar's wife on her bike. It was later reported that she was shot at by German snipers or fifth columnists so village gossip goes Many years later I used to rabbit in the same field though never almost killing anyone
@@worldoftancraft see Ian and Karls video about how battle rifles are osolete. Lee's are fine rifles, but let's not kid ourselves. Any world War 2 semi automatic battle rifle would still be far more effective than a turn bolt. Even in a Lee, you can only turn that bolt so fast. And while it can be faster than other bolt guns, it's still going to be significantly slower than any proper semi.
It's a beautiful rear sight. My uncle has a sporterized one he bought like such but they kept the original front and rear sight (front sight protection ears were sadly removed though) but that rear sight was really nice
That's intresting. I have an old Mossberg MB42a supplied for training with the same marking. Out of interest does your rifle have British Proof marks? That may be a story in itself.
Amazing how fast this creature was able to evolve given the right environment! I love nature. So beautiful seeing these little guys emerge from their dens each spring. I can’t believe you caught so many.
My first milsurp rifle was a Long Branch No4 mk1* with the mk2 rear sight. After my first trip to the range I immediately ordered a mk4 sight online and replaced the original mk2, and I am glad I did! I still have the mk2 sight, and I will sell it with the rifle if I ever decide to get rid of it.
All these rifles with iron sights to 600, 800, even 1000 yards boggle my mind. I have to ask how many of the people who signed off on and designed these sights ever actually HIT anything at 800 yards. Although it can't be any worse than pistols with sights adjustable out to 200 meters...
There is a story from Bisley where there was a competition at 1000 yards. This old Colonel was shooting with his No4. He fired and a bull was indicated. The Colonel type asked the Range Officer for an indication. The Range officer told him null indicated. The Colonel said, “I know it was a bull I want to know where in the bull”
Grimlock the longer ranges were really for Section Shooting where targets would be engaged at longer ranges by the section. For the SLR in military shooting competitions targets would be engaged initially in the Section Match at either 500 or 600m, sorry age affecting my memory.
Grimlock1 I suppose when you’re in a shitty hole on top of a hill shooting at a guy in a shitty hole on top of a different hill 1000yds away who is shooting at you....you want to sling some lead back at them.
A New Zealand soldier told me that the foresight was adjusted for each man on his particular 303 rifle They used to fire on the range with the bayonet on to steady and balance the rifle Then the officer used to adjust the front sight with a screwdriver to get the man more accurate It wasn't possible with British units because of class divisions which did not exist in New Zealand Keep up the great articles
I have all three designs on rifles. I love the history of mods and all but honestly the English did a fine job because all three designs work very well! Great video and take Care, John
Thank you! I have a 1943 #4 from Long Branch that has the simplified flip sight ,and I was debating on replacing it, but I think I'll just leave it as is
I had a number four back when I was a teen, 18. I remember that rifle had the flip sight. Now I have a number four with the first " wind up" rear sight.
Now I have to go look at the rear sight on my No4Mk1 1942 dated to see what I have. Pristine unmodified rifle with 1942 marked sling proper cleaning kit in the stock and bayonet with frog dated 1942. Thanks for the info!
The cross hatching around the aperture on the Mk.III rear sight makes it easier to use prone, with the sun behind your shoulder. For this reason, the Mk.1 rear sights which our school OTC used for competition 500 yard shooting, were initially painted matt black. The head of the school OTC then "bribed' our local visiting armourer with a bottle of malt whisky, to let us have 10 of the Parker Hale "Marksman" rear sights for our shooting team. These were a considerable improvement with the adjustable aperture and precision adjustments for elevation and windage.
Also when the Factory Through Repair was conducted on No4 rifles, upgrading them from No4 Mk1 to No4 MkII the existing rear sight was always changed to the milled version of the rear sight. The stamped rear sight was flimsy. The fixed aperture is easily bent or broken off and the slider gets quite floppy with some wear, and I've even seen them with the primary leaf bent almost into a U shape.
I do not doubt that Lindybeige could expound for 45 minutes on why the Mk 3 is labeled Mk 2 and *almost* have his explanation make sense. Oh, well- he probably already has.
Ian's already alluded to it: the flipsight was always intended to be replaced when the tooling for the stamped Mk2 was developed, so honouring such a substandard article with a mark number would be offending all rules of common decency.
check out bloke on the range's video where he compares the actual zeroed distance of +6 (i forget exactly) different SMLE sights. Incredibly meticulous and well done, all things considered.
Wow! I was just wondering about this pop-up mk2 sight a few weeks ago when I was looking at my two Lee-Enfield Number 4, Mark 1 rifles. I was wondering why my Lee-Enfield from 1943 had the ladder type sight and my other one from 1942 had the simplified, rear sight. I was beginning to think that someone had removed the ladder sight from my 1942 rifle and just put a cheap part on it. I am pleasant surprised and relieved to know that someone did not. I don't care what they say; If I were to take a time machine back to the Second World War, I would take a Lee-Enfield into battle over an M1 Garand any day.
Same! Mine is 1944, it is the first rifle I ever bought, at a pawn shop for $120. Only recently (after 15 years) have I been able to shoot it more than once or twice a year now that I have my own land and range to shoot on.
You think you could do a review on U.S. lend lease Enfields? I own one but I would like to get more information on it. There's not a hole lot of reviews on those rifles and the ones that do exists don't really go in dept like you do. Your the only man for the job.
My No4 MkI had the MkIII rear sight and I believe this would've been a great rear sight for war (quick to manufacture, quick to use), but it isn't the best for target shooting due to the size of the aperture and the fact that it's a little flimsy. I used to get around 3moa using handloads but after I swapped out to the ph5c rear sight that dropped to 1moa with handloads. This is in part due to the adjustable aperture of the Parker Hale but also holding a much more solid zero. Very happy with it now!
I have an AB serialized Maltby 4mk1 from 1942. It must have been made within the last few months of standard production, before everything was sped up. It has the screw up ladder rear sight. However the bolt has a squared and notched cocking mechanism, not a knob style. Came to me sporterized when I was a boy.
Amazing timing on the vid Ian! I just got a 1943 Savage No.4 Mk1 SMLE with the L sight. I was wondering if i could fit one of the ladder sights on to it and you have just answered that for me! Love your vids, keep up the great work!
They also removed the round bolt cooker and later removed the grooves in the new cocker then they cheated out the nose to save machining few more little new onceses They removed the wood grooves in the kite arm stock I loved that thing sad
I may have gotten lost in your description of the naming of the various sights, but for what it’s worth I have a LE with this designation stamped on the receiver: C No 4 Mk1* Long Branch 1949 It’s rear sight fits your description of a Mk 4 (but stamped Mk 3???) and is described thusly: • the slide’s lever has that little curl or bend in it • both the slide and the leaf are clearly stamped; C Mk 3 So do I understand correctly that this is actually a Mk 4 sight; not a Mk 3?
Have # 4 with 2 grove barrel and came with a mark II sight , replaced with a mark I ,now need different front sight ,have to adjust slider to 400 yards to be close to zero at 100 yards ..
Zeroing the MK4 ALWAYS begins with selecting the right front sight for your chosen load (because MkVII is no longer made). Each increase/decrease in front sight will move POI roughly two inches at 100 yards. Rather than battlesight zeroing six inches high at 100 yards, the preferred method is leaf aperture set at 200 yards. Three inches high at 100 yards
I have the Mk.2 sight. Even though it does not have the dialing in for long distance, it is a rather great sight for fast target transitions. It is so good, I do not even think about the sight. I just think, I want the bullet there, and it hits.
As I have been asking this question for the last 40 years without a convincing and qualified answer. What is the difference between the sight with bayonet mounted and without bayonet. Does the bayonet interfere with the projectile, the balance of the rifle or something quite different. When the importance of that percolates down to private level, it is something of a holy grail - or is it a dogma of immaculate conception.
the long mosin rifles (M91 and M91/30, etc.) also run into this issue. They seem to be relatively accurate out to around 4-500 ish meters, but beyond that can't produce a decent group. Attach the bayonet, and boom, a good shooter can be accurate well past 600 meters. Same reason, barrel harmonics.
Bloke on the range recently did a comparison of all the no4 sights, and explained during the video what effect the bayonet had on the point of aim. ua-cam.com/video/keZoROIMxbQ/v-deo.html
My Savage No4 MK1* has the dual-aperture MKII flip sight. Hate it but can't bring myself to replace it with a MKI or MKIII sight since it's both correct for the rifle and original to it (marked S for Savage).
I have one of those. Tried shooting it after I bought it: one box of Remington and one box of Sellier & Bellot. Wouldn’t feed from the magazine, so had to do it single shot. Safety would re-engage after every shot. Shot 5 inch groups, at 25 yards! Now it’s just a show piece. Glad it still has the “U.S. Property” stamp. Read that sometimes British soldiers would grind that off. I bet it has some stories to tell.
Weeeelll... Actually... It is entirely possible your rifle originally had a Mk I sight from the factory. Then, following a trip across the Atlantic, it was thrust into the trembling hands of an accountant's assistant who, in a moment of terrified absent-mindedness, dropped the rifle on the sight, which was replaced by a Mk II sight. I could come up with other scenarios but I won't... Incidentally, the "US PROPERTY" marking mentioned by mandymayne8759 was a gesture to the US supplying arms to the Allies before Pearl Harbour had an early morning visit from the Japanese. It showed that the Allies were paying for the equipment so the US could claim they were not participating in the war - just making money from it. And Britain paid their share (unlike the Russians, for example). All of it.
If there is one thing I have learnt about markings on Lee Enfield rifles is that everything is un-necessary complex...any one would think that British public servants had nothing better to do than confuse us for their own amusement
@@baobo67 That would be the same Sean Connery who maid his fame and fortune playing a gunslinging British agent with a license to kill? Same one who was a huge supporter of gun bans and confiscations for the common herd who bought the movie tickets to make him rich? Same guy who regularly voiced his contempt for "American gun culture"? Good actor; that's about it.
@@AirborneMOC031 The very one. Yes excellent Actor and like many of his ilk ie all sorts of celebrities that take up "causes." He was pushing for Scottish Independence at the time but "American gun culture" is a matter for Americans. Cheers.
Ummmm... Has anyone bothered to point out that the battlesight on all marks of rear sight is 300 yards? NOT 400 yards as this video claims? That's just for starters. ALL zeroing using the 300 yard battlesight is done with Bayonet fixed. Sometimes it helps to read the military pam's that were issued with this rifle.
I have a 1943 Lee Enfield No.4 Mk1 with the precision aperture just like on the 1st rifle you showed in the video, however, mine doesn't have the horizontal groves on the upper guard as yours does.
Gun Jesus has heard my prayers! Since the release of Bloke's video I've been wondering what the hell was going on with No. 4 sights, and here I am getting an answer! Praised be!
I gave my son a bubba no4 I bought in the late 1990's from my boss for $70. I couldn't turn that down. Divorce sale. I later learned about that. Don't EVER marry. Anyway, this rifle I gave to my son was a 1943 Longbranch with the fancy early dial rear sight. I guess it is origional. Lovely rifle. Pristeen bore. Best purchace I ever made.
At boarding school in the CCF we only used the Battle sight, but is was never explained to us how to use the numbers on the leaf sight? can you explain please?
I have a No. 4 Canadian-made Longbranch rifle dated 1942 that has the 300/600 war expediency sight which is pretty cool. That said, obviously the Mk1 or Mk3 sights are much better for actual shooting. I'm debating buying a replacement Mk1 or Mk3 sight ... though it hurts to change the rifle's probable original configuration. Interesting what you said about the 300 yard marker being configured to work with the bayonet attached... I'll have to try that out next time I'm at the range to see if the groups change!
If you're going to change, consider buying the leaf sight for the No5 jungle carbine "Only" graduated to 800 yards instead of 1300. But when installed on a Not with its longer sight radius, you get half MOA clicks instead of one MOA clicks.
What do you mean, "relevant or necessary"? It's British - if it's metal and part of a weapon we stamped it! Gave the drawing office wallahs something to do for their pay! Very good video by the way!
Odd thing. When you have a few section or a platoon to give fire orders to, who can fire 20 aimed rounds a minute, and a group of enemy in the open at that range... Which end of the bullets do you want to be on?
My first hunting rifle was a #4mk2 that my dad had sportirized 😢. Wish I still had it. All he did was cut the stock down and put a pistol grip on it. It would have been easy to make stock again. Oh he paid $20.00 in the mid 60's.
This brings up a question of WHY after the Americans and British adopted the superior aperture sights prior to WWI why did the Germans AND the Soviets stay with the inferior ladder-type sights on the Mauser and Mosin Nagant as well as the later SKS and AK series?
Training mostly. Soviet union didn't value marksmanship very highly as they were a conscript army so why add on a more complex sight that you need to retrain everyone on when you can stick with the current good enough sight? For the Germans i figure it was a similar story. The early carbine sights were already in the training manuals and production lines, so why change to a different sight when you are trying to increase arms production and army size?
@@RedDragon052 Sounds reasonable, at least from a CPAs perspective. It also explains the Soviets' reluctance to change to a peep. Even a bare newb of a conscript can shoot better with a longer sight radius. Do you know if the Russians have adopted optical sights as we have?
You mean to tell me I may have been sitting on a relevant piece of firearm history this whole time??? My deer rifle is a NO4 MK1, 1942 with the emergency MK2 sight. I assume that makes it the 2nd gun off the line with this sight???
What I’m confused by is that I happen to have a No4 that I believe has post-war dating (1952) but still has the Mk.2 “L” shaped sight. Why would they have put a stop-gap solution sight like that on a post-war rifle?
That's interesting. I don't know if they ever came from the factory that way but I do know military armorers will reach into a parts bin and install whatever they have to get a rifle back into service when necessary. My best guess is that the original sight was damaged and it was replaced with what was available either during or after its military service.
All these rear sights were current in stock to the end. None were actually withdrawn so any could be put on by an armourer who needed to put a replacement rear sight on a No4. Myself I preferred the MkII. Why would you fire a rifle at someone more than 600 yards away? That is why you have machine guns.
If somebody told me ten years ago that I'd watch videos about freaking rear sights one day and actually enjoy them, I would have laughed at them. And now here I am...
So what about a 1944/45 production Lee Enfield’s with the “L” style flip sights? I have seen these before. Why would ones built those years not have the better version of the adjustable sights? Were some guns built after 1943 still with the “L” sights?
My first British army rifle, issued to me in 1969, had the mk2 sight! It was the only one in the unit and quite special given its history.
Issued to you just in time to take it away for an L1A1 FN.
@@51WCDodge Yes, it was a sad day when I surrendered my honey coloured number 4 for a SLR with wooden furniture. I like a long rifle with a bayonet on the end. Call it the Corporal Jones syndrome..............
@@johnlustig4322;
Can you specify more about "Corporal Jones?"
I'm guessing that it is similar to what we used in the US Army - "Private Snuffy" - meaning, "dumbass." 😆
@@wallaroo1295 Corporal Jones is a character in a very popular British comedy sit com, called "Dad's army" from the 1970's, which even endures as repeats on TV to this day. One of his popular catch phrases was "they don't like it up'em." This was a reference to his bayonet and the enemy, in particular the Germans, during the first world war. The main aspect or flaw of his character, is for him to panic at the slightest sign of a crisis or set back to the unit.
@@johnlustig4322 I was three when you got your Enfield
A good gun for shooting rabbits
Well so thought my Dad in ww2
On leave they had to take them home with them.
He wanted to get food for the family so shot at a rabbit
He missed and the shot went through a few hedges across the back road right passed the Vicar's wife on her bike.
It was later reported that she was shot at by German snipers or fifth columnists so village gossip goes
Many years later I used to rabbit in the same field though never almost killing anyone
I inherited a number 4 mark 2, was made in 1955 and I got it unused. Absolutely fantasic rifle and very accurate.
this is the only one really battle-rifle in a row of all manual action rifles
I also have a 1955 No.4MKII unissued with original sling, and crate tag AMAZING gun these are the guns to have in my opinion
@@worldoftancraft see Ian and Karls video about how battle rifles are osolete. Lee's are fine rifles, but let's not kid ourselves. Any world War 2 semi automatic battle rifle would still be far more effective than a turn bolt. Even in a Lee, you can only turn that bolt so fast. And while it can be faster than other bolt guns, it's still going to be significantly slower than any proper semi.
I love how they refused to accept the "cost reduction" sight, and went back to the nice slider as soon as they could
It's a beautiful rear sight. My uncle has a sporterized one he bought like such but they kept the original front and rear sight (front sight protection ears were sadly removed though) but that rear sight was really nice
I have a Savage produced "U.S government property" lend/lease rifle. The earlier sight works well at distance. Best $120 spent at a pawn shop.
That's intresting. I have an old Mossberg MB42a supplied for training with the same marking. Out of interest does your rifle have British Proof marks? That may be a story in itself.
@Jeff Kopher yessir, at present, you've quintupled your money. Those Savage rifles are in high demand.
Earlier sight as in the Mk. I? Or the super simple two-position one?
@@DinnerForkTongue , the graduated sight, works well...
@@jeffkopher3468
Niiice. I'd love to own a rifle with one such leaf sight.
Amazing how fast this creature was able to evolve given the right environment! I love nature. So beautiful seeing these little guys emerge from their dens each spring. I can’t believe you caught so many.
@@ILikeToLaughAtYou He's speaking metaphorically.
My first milsurp rifle was a Long Branch No4 mk1* with the mk2 rear sight. After my first trip to the range I immediately ordered a mk4 sight online and replaced the original mk2, and I am glad I did! I still have the mk2 sight, and I will sell it with the rifle if I ever decide to get rid of it.
Love those sights that closes flush along the top.
Micrometer rear sight: When you want to do long range sniping without the scope for bragging rights.
All these rifles with iron sights to 600, 800, even 1000 yards boggle my mind. I have to ask how many of the people who signed off on and designed these sights ever actually HIT anything at 800 yards. Although it can't be any worse than pistols with sights adjustable out to 200 meters...
There is a story from Bisley where there was a competition at 1000 yards. This old Colonel was shooting with his No4. He fired and a bull was indicated. The Colonel type asked the Range Officer for an indication. The Range officer told him null indicated. The Colonel said, “I know it was a bull I want to know where in the bull”
Grimlock the longer ranges were really for Section Shooting where targets would be engaged at longer ranges by the section. For the SLR in military shooting competitions targets would be engaged initially in the Section Match at either 500 or 600m, sorry age affecting my memory.
Grimlock1 I suppose when you’re in a shitty hole on top of a hill shooting at a guy in a shitty hole on top of a different hill 1000yds away who is shooting at you....you want to sling some lead back at them.
Simo Häyhä has joined the chat
A New Zealand soldier told me that the foresight was adjusted for each man on his particular 303 rifle
They used to fire on the range with the bayonet on to steady and balance the rifle
Then the officer used to adjust the front sight with a screwdriver to get the man more accurate
It wasn't possible with British units because of class divisions which did not exist in New Zealand
Keep up the great articles
Good morning Ian , thanks for the show . Somehow watching your videos makes my coffee better.
Ian, I inherited this model with the milled sights from my father. Its a awesome rifle. Doubt I'll ever sell it.
I have all three designs on rifles.
I love the history of mods and all but honestly the English did a fine job because all three designs work very well!
Great video and take Care, John
What makes the mark 2 rear sight stay upright without flipping forward or backward?
Thank you! I have a 1943 #4 from Long Branch that has the simplified flip sight ,and I was debating on replacing it, but I think I'll just leave it as is
Oh you are going to get in trouble with B.O.T.R.
No he's not ;)
@@BlokeontheRange are you sure?,he said crumpets are crap and you should put the milk in tea first.
@@jizzmonkey9679 Stop stirring! You don't need to if you put the milk in first.
@@glynwelshkarelian3489 but you cant take milk out ,you can always add more
@@jizzmonkey9679 if you don't know how much milk is enough by experience then perhaps you're too young to be trusted with the spout!
I had a number four back when I was a teen, 18. I remember that rifle had the flip sight. Now I have a number four with the first " wind up" rear sight.
For the first time, I already knew everything he said in that video. Thanks BOTR.
I didn't give dates though :)
Ahh cheers for clarifying. Dug up a bunch of Enfields recently. Most had the simple flip sight but some had the MK3 sight.
Oh my god, this is the perfect video for me. I am doing a EPQ on firearms and this will help tremendously. Thanks for the video
Might want to check out bloke on the range if this kind of video helps you, he has heaps of this kinda stuff
@@jamietus1012 Dont worry, ive been a long time subscriber to him too ;) Thanks though
Now I have to go look at the rear sight on my No4Mk1 1942 dated to see what I have. Pristine unmodified rifle with 1942 marked sling proper cleaning kit in the stock and bayonet with frog dated 1942. Thanks for the info!
Mine is steel stamped Mk3. So, at some point my rear sight was updated?!?
Yes, possibly in the field by the armourer@@Lowang_Productions
Thank you! I have a post war #4 and always wondered why it had a MKI sight.
AFAIK pretty much all the post-war ones were produced with a Mk.1 sight.
The cross hatching around the aperture on the Mk.III rear sight makes it easier to use prone, with the sun behind your shoulder. For this reason, the Mk.1 rear sights which our school OTC used for competition 500 yard shooting, were initially painted matt black. The head of the school OTC then "bribed' our local visiting armourer with a bottle of malt whisky, to let us have 10 of the Parker Hale "Marksman" rear sights for our shooting team. These were a considerable improvement with the adjustable aperture and precision adjustments for elevation and windage.
In 33 years in uniform I got more military stuff with good whisky than by any other method.
@@itsapittie good whiskey or good coffee goes a long way, and anything else that is in limited quantity.
@@at1cvb417 That it does!
The 'Gun Jesus' is up to his old tricks again: producing great videos!
Except for all the errors...
And I believe the milled sight had the "battle sight" removed to make room for the scope on "T" models
Just put a mklll sight on my no4 mk l*. Thought I was just being lazy not learning how to use the mkll sight. Glad the Brits never expected me to
Also when the Factory Through Repair was conducted on No4 rifles, upgrading them from No4 Mk1 to No4 MkII the existing rear sight was always changed to the milled version of the rear sight. The stamped rear sight was flimsy. The fixed aperture is easily bent or broken off and the slider gets quite floppy with some wear, and I've even seen them with the primary leaf bent almost into a U shape.
Question for Ian: What came first the Savage flip sight or the flip sight of the M1 Carbine?
I do not doubt that Lindybeige could expound for 45 minutes on why the Mk 3 is labeled Mk 2 and *almost* have his explanation make sense.
Oh, well- he probably already has.
Ian's already alluded to it: the flipsight was always intended to be replaced when the tooling for the stamped Mk2 was developed, so honouring such a substandard article with a mark number would be offending all rules of common decency.
Beige has a profound tendancy toward verbosity.
check out bloke on the range's video where he compares the actual zeroed distance of +6 (i forget exactly) different SMLE sights. Incredibly meticulous and well done, all things considered.
Wow! I was just wondering about this pop-up mk2 sight a few weeks ago when I was looking at my two Lee-Enfield Number 4, Mark 1 rifles. I was wondering why my Lee-Enfield from 1943 had the ladder type sight and my other one from 1942 had the simplified, rear sight. I was beginning to think that someone had removed the ladder sight from my 1942 rifle and just put a cheap part on it. I am pleasant surprised and relieved to know that someone did not. I don't care what they say; If I were to take a time machine back to the Second World War, I would take a Lee-Enfield into battle over an M1 Garand any day.
I learned to shoot on a mark 1. In .303 looking at these brings back fond memories.
The missing sight here is Canadian version- a milled base with a stamped ladder. That’s what my 1942 longbranch has on it.
I have the exact same rifle.
Same! Mine is 1944, it is the first rifle I ever bought, at a pawn shop for $120. Only recently (after 15 years) have I been able to shoot it more than once or twice a year now that I have my own land and range to shoot on.
Mine also, milled base stamped ladder but with the mark 3 ladder, updated inward facing spring clip!
CMk3
You think you could do a review on U.S. lend lease Enfields? I own one but I would like to get more information on it. There's not a hole lot of reviews on those rifles and the ones that do exists don't really go in dept like you do. Your the only man for the job.
Ian should be a tenured professor somewhere. Not so much money but job and bene's galore.
My No4 MkI had the MkIII rear sight and I believe this would've been a great rear sight for war (quick to manufacture, quick to use), but it isn't the best for target shooting due to the size of the aperture and the fact that it's a little flimsy. I used to get around 3moa using handloads but after I swapped out to the ph5c rear sight that dropped to 1moa with handloads. This is in part due to the adjustable aperture of the Parker Hale but also holding a much more solid zero. Very happy with it now!
I have an AB serialized Maltby 4mk1 from 1942. It must have been made within the last few months of standard production, before everything was sped up. It has the screw up ladder rear sight. However the bolt has a squared and notched cocking mechanism, not a knob style. Came to me sporterized when I was a boy.
Excellent vid, thank you
And here I was thinking the leaf rear sight had been bubba'd.... super neat
Parker-Hale also made a windage adjustable flip up sight for the No.4, I'm guessing that it was a private purchase item for Service Rifle matches.
That would be both the A.J. Parker No. 4 and the Parker Hale PH4.
I have a Long Branch 1942 Mk I* with a Mk 3 back sight. The sights are way better than the sights on my SKS.
Amazing timing on the vid Ian! I just got a 1943 Savage No.4 Mk1 SMLE with the L sight. I was wondering if i could fit one of the ladder sights on to it and you have just answered that for me! Love your vids, keep up the great work!
Interesting.
I just watched the Bloke on the Range video on the battle sight aspect of these a few days ago.
The small rear sight was known as the Battle Sight
I have a no.4 Mk 1, stamped with date of 1943, with a Mk 2 sight.
Very interesting. Thanks for showing the Evolution of the No4 Lee Enfield rear sight, Gun Jesus !!!!!!!!!!!!!
My 1941 Long Branch has the 300/600yard flip sight.
They also removed the round bolt cooker and later removed the grooves in the new cocker then they cheated out the nose to save machining few more little new onceses
They removed the wood grooves in the kite arm stock I loved that thing sad
Would be interesting if you could fire each and see how the changes effected the guns?
I may have gotten lost in your description of the naming of the various sights, but for what it’s worth I have a LE with this designation stamped on the receiver:
C No 4 Mk1*
Long Branch
1949
It’s rear sight fits your description of a Mk 4 (but stamped Mk 3???) and is described thusly:
• the slide’s lever has that little curl or
bend in it
• both the slide and the leaf are clearly
stamped; C Mk 3
So do I understand correctly that this is actually a Mk 4 sight; not a Mk 3?
Have # 4 with 2 grove barrel and came with a mark II sight , replaced with a mark I ,now need different front sight ,have to adjust slider to 400 yards to be close to zero at 100 yards ..
Zeroing the MK4 ALWAYS begins with selecting the right front sight for your chosen load (because MkVII is no longer made).
Each increase/decrease in front sight will move POI roughly two inches at 100 yards.
Rather than battlesight zeroing six inches high at 100 yards, the preferred method is leaf aperture set at 200 yards. Three inches high at 100 yards
Early for once...and thanks Ian for discussing guns on a gun channel.
Eaaarrrlyyy and it feels so good! Great vid!!
Next to M1Garand sights one of the most shootable sights.
Awesome video!
Good info,looks like my Infield has the mark 1sight
In the early 90s I had a No. 4 MK1 and I never could get used to the rear aperture sight. Mine didn’t have the micrometer.
Thank you
I have the Mk.2 sight. Even though it does not have the dialing in for long distance, it is a rather great sight for fast target transitions. It is so good, I do not even think about the sight. I just think, I want the bullet there, and it hits.
It'd be nice if we got a sight picture too
As I have been asking this question for the last 40 years without a convincing and qualified answer.
What is the difference between the sight with bayonet mounted and without bayonet. Does the bayonet interfere with the projectile, the balance of the rifle or something quite different.
When the importance of that percolates down to private level, it is something of a holy grail - or is it a dogma of immaculate conception.
The bayonet changes the barrel harmonics and therefore the POI of the round
the long mosin rifles (M91 and M91/30, etc.) also run into this issue. They seem to be relatively accurate out to around 4-500 ish meters, but beyond that can't produce a decent group. Attach the bayonet, and boom, a good shooter can be accurate well past 600 meters. Same reason, barrel harmonics.
Bloke on the range recently did a comparison of all the no4 sights, and explained during the video what effect the bayonet had on the point of aim. ua-cam.com/video/keZoROIMxbQ/v-deo.html
My Savage No4 MK1* has the dual-aperture MKII flip sight. Hate it but can't bring myself to replace it with a MKI or MKIII sight since it's both correct for the rifle and original to it (marked S for Savage).
I have one of those. Tried shooting it after I bought it: one box of Remington and one box of Sellier & Bellot. Wouldn’t feed from the magazine, so had to do it single shot. Safety would re-engage after every shot. Shot 5 inch groups, at 25 yards! Now it’s just a show piece. Glad it still has the “U.S. Property” stamp. Read that sometimes British soldiers would grind that off. I bet it has some stories to tell.
Weeeelll... Actually...
It is entirely possible your rifle originally had a Mk I sight from the factory. Then, following a trip across the Atlantic, it was thrust into the trembling hands of an accountant's assistant who, in a moment of terrified absent-mindedness, dropped the rifle on the sight, which was replaced by a Mk II sight.
I could come up with other scenarios but I won't...
Incidentally, the "US PROPERTY" marking mentioned by mandymayne8759 was a gesture to the US supplying arms to the Allies before Pearl Harbour had an early morning visit from the Japanese. It showed that the Allies were paying for the equipment so the US could claim they were not participating in the war - just making money from it.
And Britain paid their share (unlike the Russians, for example). All of it.
I just picked up one of these. I lucked out and got the micrometer sight.
If there is one thing I have learnt about markings on Lee Enfield rifles is that everything is un-necessary complex...any one would think that British public servants had nothing better to do than confuse us for their own amusement
If I had a sixpence for every time I heard that...
@@richardstockley5641 "You'd 'ave 'alf a quid, mate!"
I have a 1943 Fazakerley with the L flip sight.
Nice video, thanks.
Happiness is a google question answered with a Forgotten Weapons video
and a warm gun/Lennon
Go to bloke on range... he's done an in depth review on no 4 sights, with shooting!
But you'd have to listen to his horrible English accent 👌
@@samholdsworth3957 Out of all the 50 or so English accents, is his the only one you dont like? Or are they all horrible?
@@kmc7355 The best accent, dare I say in the World, was from near England and has just left us. That of Sean Connery, a Scott. Vale.
@@baobo67 That would be the same Sean Connery who maid his fame and fortune playing a gunslinging British agent with a license to kill?
Same one who was a huge supporter of gun bans and confiscations for the common herd who bought the movie tickets to make him rich?
Same guy who regularly voiced his contempt for "American gun culture"?
Good actor; that's about it.
@@AirborneMOC031 The very one. Yes excellent Actor and like many of his ilk ie all sorts of celebrities that take up "causes." He was pushing for Scottish Independence at the time but "American gun culture" is a matter for Americans. Cheers.
You should link to bloke on the range’s shooting comparison to see what the zeros were
Ummmm... Has anyone bothered to point out that the battlesight on all marks of rear sight is 300 yards? NOT 400 yards as this video claims?
That's just for starters. ALL zeroing using the 300 yard battlesight is done with Bayonet fixed. Sometimes it helps to read the military pam's that were issued with this rifle.
I noticed the checkering on the Mk.3 long-range sight, was that added to reduce glare?
I hope he does one on the bayonets.
Enfield used to make motorbikes as well. The best one was the 750cc Interceptor MkII. A brutishly handsome machine.
So did BSA, 650 Gold Star, Rocket 3 ect.
I like the Royal Enfield ,you can still get them from India.
@@darrenbrashaw8409 BSA also made cars
I have a 1943 Lee Enfield No.4 Mk1 with the precision aperture just like on the 1st rifle you showed in the video, however, mine doesn't have the horizontal groves on the upper guard as yours does.
Gun Jesus has heard my prayers! Since the release of Bloke's video I've been wondering what the hell was going on with No. 4 sights, and here I am getting an answer! Praised be!
Huh. I guess I didn't explain it well enough then?
@@BlokeontheRange bless
Please do a video on the AKS-47u
Why is the Mk III stamped Mk II....
because they are British. Got to love the history and markings of their rifles.
I gave my son a bubba no4 I bought in the late 1990's from my boss for $70. I couldn't turn that down. Divorce sale. I later learned about that. Don't EVER marry. Anyway, this rifle I gave to my son was a 1943 Longbranch with the fancy early dial rear sight. I guess it is origional.
Lovely rifle. Pristeen bore. Best purchace I ever made.
At boarding school in the CCF we only used the Battle sight, but is was never explained to us how to use the numbers on the leaf sight? can you explain please?
Why did it take militairies so long to realise most engagements where conducted at 300m or less?
I don’t think they were until WW2.
You're always fighting the previous war.
When they quit having static front lines with no man's land. Mobile front lines made for shorter ranges.
@@andyblack5687 the trenches were about 300y apart. Sometimes closer, sometimes farther.
Andy Black They literally always have been
I have a No. 4 Canadian-made Longbranch rifle dated 1942 that has the 300/600 war expediency sight which is pretty cool. That said, obviously the Mk1 or Mk3 sights are much better for actual shooting. I'm debating buying a replacement Mk1 or Mk3 sight ... though it hurts to change the rifle's probable original configuration. Interesting what you said about the 300 yard marker being configured to work with the bayonet attached... I'll have to try that out next time I'm at the range to see if the groups change!
If you're going to change, consider buying the leaf sight for the No5 jungle carbine
"Only" graduated to 800 yards instead of 1300. But when installed on a Not with its longer sight radius, you get half MOA clicks instead of one MOA clicks.
I can attest to the groups changing. I shoot long range with no bayo and under 500 yrds with the bayo attached. It makes a significant difference.
There was a 48 minute commercial before the video. WTF that is bringing youtube commercials to almost movie length jeez.
No "skip Ad" box?
You dont use an ad-blocker in 2020?
@@geyotepilkington2892 no ad blocker in yt app
Right?
I wish there is tho
You can keep me more interested in an 1/8 of a few guns for more time then my math teacher kept my attention
You didn't mention the that the Mk1 is click adjustable like a scope turret. Each click being 1 MOA if I remember correctly..
You are correct. Replace that micrometer sight with the one for the No5 jungle carbine and you have half MOA clicks.
The Savage built No. 4 I just bought has the first sight.
What do you mean, "relevant or necessary"? It's British - if it's metal and part of a weapon we stamped it! Gave the drawing office wallahs something to do for their pay! Very good video by the way!
neat. I have a savage made one with the Mk II style of sight. Interesting that it never got upgraded.
My fav bolt action...
I would like to meet anyone who could see a target at 1300 yards with a naked eye.
@Robert Stallard really? I just check the weave for better quality fabrics, doesn't need to count that way
Odd thing. When you have a few section or a platoon to give fire orders to, who can fire 20 aimed rounds a minute, and a group of enemy in the open at that range... Which end of the bullets do you want to be on?
My first hunting rifle was a #4mk2 that my dad had sportirized 😢. Wish I still had it. All he did was cut the stock down and put a pistol grip on it. It would have been easy to make stock again. Oh he paid $20.00 in the mid 60's.
If you ever get a chance you should do a video on the Norwegian nm149
This brings up a question of WHY after the Americans and British adopted the superior aperture sights prior to WWI why did the Germans AND the Soviets stay with the inferior ladder-type sights on the Mauser and Mosin Nagant as well as the later SKS and AK series?
Training mostly. Soviet union didn't value marksmanship very highly as they were a conscript army so why add on a more complex sight that you need to retrain everyone on when you can stick with the current good enough sight? For the Germans i figure it was a similar story. The early carbine sights were already in the training manuals and production lines, so why change to a different sight when you are trying to increase arms production and army size?
@@RedDragon052 Sounds reasonable, at least from a CPAs perspective. It also explains the Soviets' reluctance to change to a peep. Even a bare newb of a conscript can shoot better with a longer sight radius. Do you know if the Russians have adopted optical sights as we have?
You mean to tell me I may have been sitting on a relevant piece of firearm history this whole time???
My deer rifle is a NO4 MK1, 1942 with the emergency MK2 sight. I assume that makes it the 2nd gun off the line with this sight???
Hmm, I have a No. 4 MK I, with the stamped sight shown in the video. Says Mark 3 on it?
So when did the mark 4 sight come into play?
Hi, Ian a nice report on weapons, etc.... but... would you mind posting some reports on the std. issue ammo of those rifle...? Thank you
What I’m confused by is that I happen to have a No4 that I believe has post-war dating (1952) but still has the Mk.2 “L” shaped sight. Why would they have put a stop-gap solution sight like that on a post-war rifle?
That's interesting. I don't know if they ever came from the factory that way but I do know military armorers will reach into a parts bin and install whatever they have to get a rifle back into service when necessary. My best guess is that the original sight was damaged and it was replaced with what was available either during or after its military service.
All these rear sights were current in stock to the end. None were actually withdrawn so any could be put on by an armourer who needed to put a replacement rear sight on a No4. Myself I preferred the MkII. Why would you fire a rifle at someone more than 600 yards away? That is why you have machine guns.
Ian: I have a new Lee Enfield evolution video for you!
Me: No, thank you, I already have a headache. 😜
But is the thing really a microMETER if it works in yards? xD
If I would need to stab them with the bayonet.. no long range sights. This doesn't line up with my gaming style at all! Send it back.
No.4.mk 1 & 2.top Enfield 4 me.
If somebody told me ten years ago that I'd watch videos about freaking rear sights one day and actually enjoy them, I would have laughed at them.
And now here I am...
So what about a 1944/45 production Lee Enfield’s with the “L” style flip sights? I have seen these before. Why would ones built those years not have the better version of the adjustable sights? Were some guns built after 1943 still with the “L” sights?