A few comments have landed that the S.F #2343 is NOT the most sought after locomotive. I was trying to convey that this MODEL of F-3, the 1950-1953 F-3, has a lot of options that other productions runs of F-3's do not have. I have been made aware there is other road names that are much more rare. I'm sorry for the confusion 🙂
The 1957 Canadian Pacific F3 ABA set is probably the rarest. I've seen a set at train shows for around $6,000.00! It was only made for one year, 1957. I have the reproduction set that was reissued in 1973 and 1974. Being a 1957 Boomer, I would have loved to have the 1957 set, but will have to wait for a powerball ticket to hit to be able to afford that set!
I bought a SF 2343 unit that had a pretty beat up shell to get a chasis with 2 motors and magna-traction and put the Candian Pacific shell on it since the repro unit was just a single motor locomotive. After watching the videos I need to do a cleaning of the SF and CP powered units. I also have the New York Central F3 ABA set, for 3 of those iconic F3 sets. I doubt today's highly electronic Legacy locomotives will be running 70+ years from now. Lionel did a great job designing and building the locomotives of the 1950s and early 1960s.
@@johnphillips4342 Pretty cool you did a little mixing and made up a 2 motor C.P. 3 different road names of F-3, paint me jealous!! Yeah I don't think 2020 runs of model trains will be kicking around in 2090. Need to bring metal construction back :-)
@@classicmodeltrains the toy trains full of electronics that are prevalent in today's world of toy trains in the future the electronics will be just all cut out of the things and they will just run without any bells whistles Camp chatter speed indexing any of that garbage. My Williams locomotives the circuit boards generally the last about 12 to 14 years when they start singing to themselves that's the sign that they are about to go out. The rectifier is in the circuit board so if you hardwire the motors that you have to run straight DC and that I got no problem with when the time comes. It's amazing about the Canadian Pacific set because it was such a loser outside of Canada because who would want to spend such a amount of money for a Canadian Train. You could have bought as many as you wanted for less than suggested retail because people the shops were just want to get rid of them. I can't believe the ridiculous stupid money that's in these Hobbies now because of the rich people going in there and just jacking up the price of stuff left right and Center. They know nothing about toy trains or motorcycles but they managed to screw up both Hobby. Perhaps in 20 years you'll be doing videos about how to keep today's electronic trains running when you can't get electronic parts for them anymore. Even in the Box Electronics fail just from age. Coming from ho as far as I'm concerned as long as the train is running and the headlights on you're good.
I'm a senior. I walked into my grandparent's living room on Christmas morning when I was 4 or 5 and there it was, exactly this one - all set up beside the tree! I'm not sure who was more thrilled - Grampa or me. We spent a long time making scenery out of paper mache and pipe cleaners. May all your Christmases be merry.
It's amazing how you virtually remanufacture these locomotives. Just like the real ones with some maintenance and some oil and some spare parts they will last forever. Just like classical motorcycles.
I have two sets of the Lionel F3 2343 Santa Fe and Two sets of the 2353 Santa Fe sets. I restored all of them myself and they will run forever. Great video! Thank you!
Nice Video! My Santa Fe ABA 2343 - purchased new for me by my parents in 1952 - is absolutely original and still running on my layout, pulling a 9 car consist of Lionel Lines 2500 series aluminum cars that duplicates the famous Super Chief. It has tremendous pulling power thanks to the weight/gear reduction/dual motors/magnetraction.
Ron as a lifelong Lionel guy here's a small restoration tip. The absolute best thing to clean the clear plastic windshields and window inserts in illuminated cabooses and such is non abrasive toothpaste and water. Wash, rinse, air dry or hair dryer and they come out sparkling and smell minty fresh! Lol
Thank you for that info Howard. I actually waxed them with the turtle wax. sorta the same thing. A very light rubbing compound. Except mine were not minty fresh :-)
Very nice video. Thanks for explaining the difference between O and O27. A big thumbs up 👍 for the fresh haircut. The ladies will be chasing you down now.
Agree It’s Lucille Ball. Great video Ron! Repairing and restoring these locomotives is great these guys will be able to run for years ahead and be able to be serviced more easily to keep them going. They do loo great with the waxing. I would rather have a complete locomotive that works and is maintainable than something that is left broken for age sake, myself. I may be a heathen though. Great to see all the engineering in these locomotives! Oh. Haircut looks great as well, hope it helps with the panhandling income!!! Take care a always!
I just found your channel and added you. I have always had small layouts so had o-27 trains. Now I have a slightly larger one. I'm looking for a 2343 AA set, so appreciate your tutorial. It's not wasted on me. I have rebuilt everything from jukeboxes to centrifuges. Thanks, O yeah, is that Lucille Ball?.
Very nice video Ron! Looking forward to see the second part of the saga. Never occurred to me the use of polishing wax the way you did. Living and learning… thanks a lot!
Another great video. You are right these are the most wanted engines. I have wanted a set of these for a long time. This set looks fantastic! Looking forward to seeing the next video.
LOL Ron!!! Love the comedy in the video! These things are NICE looking for the age they are. Have to think that some kid back in the '50's got this for a present and who knows how long they ran it. Nice Work!!!
Thanks for sharing!!! You have some Skills!!! Wow, great job! I have my original #2353 ABA. Louvers on top, no grab irons on the front, ladders on the side. I found a '55 catalog with my set advertised, and I still have the set and the big ZW transformer.....BUT not the skills to sharpen it all back up!!! Again thanks for sharing!!!
Lucille Ball... I'm reserving further comment until I witness the rest of this production, however I really like everything that I've seen so far. The details are everything...
I like how you explained how there's are differences between scale versus gauge. Many people use it interchangeable in model trains (especially in O Gauge versus O Scale), but there is a difference. Also, I'm looking forward to part 2 of the series. Now, you just need something to run them around to show off the handy work.
I'm a happy owner of the 2343 set. The hole set with passenger cars. I tore it down to the bear frame cleaned, greased, lube runs like new sadly the horn don't work.
Hi Ron, Thanks for the video. Just terrific! I’m going to refer to it when I get around to servicing my F3. Back in 1950 or 51, I received my train set for Christmas. I was about eight years old. I still have it today. The set included the Santa Fe 2343 F3 powered unit and dummy unit. The set also came with a coal car, log car, searchlight car, freight car, caboose, RW transformer, track for an oval, and a disconnect track (the one with the round red electro-magnet in the center). My parents paid about $69 for it(a lot of money back then). The following Christmas I got the B unit, and later got the Santa Fe switch engine. Back in that era kids were crazy for Lionel trains. Every kid had them (although there were a few outliers that had American Flyer LOL). A lot of kids had fathers that were just as crazy for them. So they had huge layouts. It was a great era.
@@classicmodeltrains The early fifties was a pretty great time for Lionel. We lived in New Jersey, and every year at Christmas time we’d go to New York City. The highlight was the Lionel display at Times Square. Lionel had a huge layout in the flatiron building showing off all of their new stuff. People were always huddled around the windows about five deep. Kind of like the scene in Christmas Story. Lol
Great job!I have an MPC era Sante Fe Warbonnets which have the simplified vertical Pull Mor motor and it pulls pretty well.Yours has the horizontal motors that are outstanding pullers and are indeed nicknamed Coffee Grinders!
@@thetrainboard2772 Yes,that good advice. If you buy something of lesser quality you will never forget what you paid for it ,but if you buy quality you will forget what it costs. I wise old guy told me that years ago and now I’m old man and still recall what he said to me.
Excellent video! My Father has an original 2343 ABA set he got for his birthday and still runs it to this day. I will definitely show him this video. You did a great job on the cleanup and restoration. I’m looking forward to part 2 !
Off topic I know, but do you happen to know where I can locate some layout plans? I own a O gauge 2343 ABA set, but I don't have a clue what size curves to use and so on. Thanks.
@@les6556 the curve size should be the largest you can fit in your space. The space determines the curve, not the engine. Many modern engines require 072 curves, 6 ft diameter but your engine will run on anything. Gary j
I have a set of these, AA, bought about 25 years ago. They were old then... The engine center rail rollers will show more wear then you would expect due to the high amperage those two motors take. They spark very much. I did two things to have those rollers last longer, since I was young and did not have much extra money back then. I added 2 wire jumpers between the active roller frames and the contact point on the end of that roller frame for better electrical contact, and then ran a wire from the dummy unit to the powered unit center rail connections. Less sparking and better power to the motors that way. You will want a larger then 90 watt transformer if you run these often.
On a 4x6 or a 4x8 layout you could have a nice setup of O gauge and/or 027 there are plenty of track plans for small areas you don't have to have a great big Museum size layout to have fun. Go ahead take the plunge you'll enjoy it.
Now that's a tough drive line. Lionel quality back in the day. If you're looking for replacement rollers, I found part number 2367-192. Where you oiled the pickup rollers, use Inox unless the oil is designed for electric use. Very good part 1.
@@TheCreativeMind Thanks for clarifying. I use NO-OX-ID. Leaves an almost undetectible coating on the track, and improves the performance. It's a paste that is applied thinly along the running surface of the track. I'll have to look up Inox. Thnx for the tip.
Also, Lionel shared production startup and tooling and engineering costs with the various railroads and I believe also with EMD to help promote and bring this replica F-3 to life.😎
Thanks for explaining the difference between "scale" and "gauge". I didn't know that Lionel 027 was 1/64th scale and not true 1/43rd scale. Since I model a period before 1950, most of my engines are steamers. Only diesel I have is a Texas Special that only goes forward. I changed out the incandescent headlight to a 5mm LED with ballast resistor (current limiting resistor). I guess all my "O" gauge are 027 "scale". Doesn't matter 'cause my track is 027 that I weathered. I've got to review your video on adding extra ties to the track. Cheers from eastern TN
Hey, that's my train, 3 Santa Fe engines with the middle without windows, exact color scheme. Lost in the 1970s. I want it back, after you repair it first, of course.
I have a 2333 F-3 in both Santa Fe and NYC livery. Both have magne-traction. Both were purchased by my father around 1948, '49 or '50 and have remained in my family's possession since then.
Very cool!! From my research I found that magna traction was introduced in 1950. the only difference between the 2333 and the 2343 was magna traction. Perhaps someone has installed magna traction trucks back in the day? But then I again I could have some bad information. Thanks for watching and commenting :-)
Love your presentations, thanks. I have an older version or maybe a cheaper model of the Santa Fe. If I sent you a photo could you identify it for me . At 81 years old I’m setting up my first train set. Thanks
I much enjoyed your F7 video. I actually own one of these ABA sets .. at least I think that's how they were purchased.. maybe separately I don't know. I was born in 1955 and I'm guessing my dad figured I wanted this for Christmas.. in our earliest family Christmas pictures and 8 mm movies I'm like 4 or 5. I must say that it still runs .. unfortunately the power pack died after a drop while moving in 88. I'm guessing bakalite.
Thank you Eric! These F-3's were sold as A-A set or A-B-A sets. Cool that it still runs. If your transformer only has a broken case I've had success glueing Bakelite back together with CA glue (superglue). Pretty cool your Dad played trains with you as a youngster!!
I watched the body disassembly portion several times, but never saw the original clear portal windows being removed or out on the work bench. I agree the originals look much better. Were they simply round discs that press into the counterbore? The "new" version, with the flange, creates an unusual fish eye affect that I don't find appealing. Excellent informative video!! Thank you for posting this.
The powered A had no original windows. The dummy A had 2 and the dummy B had 2 originals. I popped them out early on and had no footage of that. When I ordered in new port hole windows they only came in 8 pack. I installed the new ones in the A's and glued in the originals into the B. You have a very sharp eye! I agree the new ones have a funny look to them. I would prefer originals. Thanks for watching and commenting :-)
Hello Ron. Outstanding video. You’re correct, this is an iconic locomotive. The design of the locomotive, and paint scheme made this the most sold Lionel locomotive during the Postwar years. I personally have these locomotives myself, along with the original passenger cars that came with them. It’s the Lionel #2190W Super Speedliner Set from 1952. You should hunt down the original 4 2500 Series passenger cars for these locomotives, and you’ll have an incredible set. The #2531, #2532, #2533, and the #2534. If you want to take it a bit further, you can get the add on baggage car for it to really complete the set, and that’s the #2530 baggage car. There are 2 variations of this car, a Large door, or a Small door version. The large door version is not very common, and was only produced in early 1954. Subsequently, the smaller door version is much more common to find. Also to note, I noticed the light bulb that was in the powered unit. That is an incorrect bulb. The correct bulb should be a #1445 18v lamp. The bulb you have in there looks like it might be a #57 lamp which is a 12-16v lamp. The main difference other than the voltage railing is the Size of the bulb. The 2343 require a 3 1/2 eighths shape bulb, (7/16”) and your bulb is a 4 1/2 eighths shape bulb, (9/16”). It needs the smaller shape bulb because the power truck motor will come in contact with the larger shape bulb that you have in there. The clearances are tight between the bulb and the power truck. It’s not as critical with the dummy unit, but that too the recommended light bulb is a #1445. This way the the brightness of the bulb remain consistent between both locomotives. As far as the horn, you should be able to find a good used original horn for this F3 on eBay. You can also find a reproduction horn as well if you so wish, unless of course you want to restore it all original. That would really set that apart from everything else out there. I’m an avid Postwar Lionel collector and operator myself, and I hope this helps you out with your restoration. Regards, Tom
Greetings Tom! THANK YOU VERY MUCH for the great information you shared. I believe I had a line on them passenger cars on e-bay. Aluminum extruded right? There was 4 of them, in pretty bad shape, restorable of course, but I thought the bids got a bit high so I backed off. Should have pressed on. The old bulb I pulled out was a #57, but I did notice what you mentioned with the clearance issue. I shall hunt down some #1445's. I couldn't find a original horn on the bay, but did locate a repro being offered. $20 seemed fair. Your information definitely helped out!! Hope your holidays are good for you and yours, Ron
I have an old 0 gauge F3 A-B-A with passenger cars, and a box full of tracks, but I don't have a clue about layouts. Would you happen to have any track layout plans? Is there a minimum radius to use for the curves? Thanks.
@@les6556 Just found this comment. Sorry for the long reply time. I believe the minimum radius for these is 31". I don't have any track plans but the google machine is filled with so many of them you won't know which one you want to do first :-)
@@classicmodeltrains According to Lou Shur back in 1978, he told me that the lowest production was the Canadian Pacific F3’s & passenger set; however he also said the Texas Special AB was the most desirable! In 1979 I was able to purchase the Canadian Pacific set for $500. All boxed and rarely used…
@@classicmodeltrains And I must add an honorable mention. The Super O New Haven AB set; I have it from 1958. The odd thing is; it only has one motor in the A unit! So at an old Greenburg show I P/U 2 rear F vertical motors and put them in the B unit. The set includes the Mint and the Aquarium cars and the black 6464 New Haven and the white caboose. I just wish Lionel would have made 072 super O curves…
looking at the rear frame of the powered unit, the two little holes in the center of the frame, are the horn mounting mounting holes. On top of the Zed bracket' the horn, mounts over the drive shaft, of the motor.... I'm not that smart, but I have a service manual!!
Question: I own an 0 gauge F-3 A-B-A with passenger cars. I'm new to this and I'm wanting to build a layout. What is the minimum size curve I need to use on a layout. Anyone know where I can find some layouts/drawings? Appreciate any help I can get. Thanks.
Your radius would need to be at or larger than 31”. That number sometimes confuses people so I will say for the locomotive robs able to make a u-turn the track will take up 62” center of the track. Over 5 feet wide layout to make a turn. That’s minimum. I would do no less than 36-42 radius. O gauge is real big so it likes large turns. Now someone will come along and say there’s runs just fine on O-27 track. (27” radius) but believe me bigger curves are always better.
@@classicmodeltrains I have both 0-27 and 0 ga. On an 0=27 setup the F3 requires at least a 42" radius. I was not sure on the 0 gauge. Thanks for the info.
Thank you! Hot water won't clean as good as an ultrasonic. The ultrasonic vibrates very very fast and creates cavitation in the cleaning liquid. tiny bubbles "blow up" causing the dirt and scum to be removed with out having to scrub it.
Lionel used to put ever ready batteries in all of their locomotives because they never thought of them sitting on a shelf for 40 or 50 years and the battery eating away at the locomotive because it leaked. They figured that they would be sold at Christmas and the battery would just be changed whenever it wore out. I actually saw a court case on TV where a guy bought a gg1 I think might have been an F3 I don't remember but it was heating Away by the battery acid that was inside it and the seller said it was meant in the Box unopened so he didn't know there was a battery in there or is that the engine was damaged it was sold brand new in the box. The judge ruled for the seller because he said there was no way for him to know because if he had opened up the box then it would lose value.
I use a mixture of 50% ammonia with 50% water and spray down the shells with a sprayer bottle in the sink. I let it sit for about 1 minute and use the kitchen sprayer to spray the goobers and dust away. Dry with a soft cloth. No wax here, just a bit of touch-up paint.
I figured Lionel would have brought this one back during that time period. They re-launched some excellent pre and post stuff. I wonder if that affected the collectors market? You know, bringing prices down on original stuff because you could buy a new "original" stuff.
Thanks Dan for the Sub. I watch VGG a lot. Were both from the same neck of the woods,( the State of N.D.) perhaps our personalities are sorta the same. He makes interesting vid's to watch and that's my goal also. A little teaching and a little fun! :-)
@@classicmodeltrains I have this old lionel device that makes my engine make a whistle sound, but Im not sure how to hook it up. can you give some advice. It has two buttons on it, one for a whistle, and one for reverse.
@@3dartistguy I'm not a Lionel expert (yet) so off the top of my head with no pictures it sorta sounds like the power transformer. I have a FB page under classicmodeltrains. if you can send me a picture on the messenger, perhaps I can help out more
The “classic star pic” is of Lucille Ball (when I was a kid, my interpretation of my mom’s pronunciation was “Lucy O’Ball”). Imagine my shock after I learned to read then caught her “real” name on the credits for her TV Series (I Love Lucy, and next Here’s Lucy which I saw more because of a puppy crush on Lucie Arnaz vs her star mother). Alas, crushes are fleeting, and I didn’t follow Arnaz’s career 🙂.
I always seen Lucy in her "I love Lucy" days. Her whinny characters voice drove me nuts. I suppose if I had seen her in some earlier movies, where she played a more "normal" character, I could have developed a puppy crush also :-) I saw a documentary on her a few months back. I never knew she did modeling or movies before meeting Dezi.
Whats the pull power on postwar F3s? How much cars can they carry? I have some Lionel Lines silver coaches that are heavy. Is it supposed to carry all that weight? Amazing video by the way! I Subscribed!
Thanks for the new sub!! I dont know how much they can pull. This particular one is supposed to be there best puller with dual motors and magnatraction wheels. One day I will have a large enough layout to find out
Yes the original portholes were on the 2333 and 2343 which were more like a contact lens. Lionel knew that the windows would easily pop out of the locomotives from the lightest of handling or age. So the 2344 Lionel switched to the snap in portholes from late 52 early 53 to 1955. The replacement called to use the later designed portholes as replacements when the originals fell out. Front load washing machine! LMFAO! YES SIR THEY DO!
The O vs O27 thing is not really based on scale. It was more like Lionel Premium vs Budget line of trains. There are many examples of Lionel steam engines that are identical with the exception of the number stamped on the cab, such as the 675/2025, the 671/2020, and the 646/2046. Lionel didn't use separate numbers for their rolling stock. Their items made in the early postwar years for both product lines were closer to 1/64 while items made from roughly 1952 and later tended to be closer to 1/48. O27 track was made cheaper than O gauge. O27 gauge sets typically included transformers, while O gauge sets typically did not.
Lots of good information out there. I read the change to O-27 was of course for budget minded consumers, but also the "O' stuff took up so much room in the house. They scaled everything down to accommodate the smaller sized houses being manufactured (if I read that article right :-)
Imagine how great that locomotive would be if Lionel had not made the plastic shell and had made it diecast like all of his other locomotives. They used virgin plastic and not regrind. Regrind is the stuff that gets squeezed out of the mold and that gets cut off and then put in the mold with fresh virgin plastic and it would deform in a short time. American Flyer tried using regrind to make plastic train cars out of and the cars would warp completely out of shape. Of course they did not know such things would happen because nobody made stuff out of plastic before they didn't know what to do and what not to do that was stuff that they learned.
@@classicmodeltrains there were two men in Mexico who made bootleg copies of Lionel f3s with a diecast shell they had a falling out and no more engines were made. I like diecast over plastic anytime. I didn't mind plastic when I was in Ho because everything was plastic in HO trains. I had a few diecast cars in HO trains and I like the solid h e f t of my diecast Varney F3. It would have been nice if he had a diecast F3 the way Varney had. The company that made the plastic that Lionel used guaranteed it would be quality because Lionel was not sure of making anything for a diecast engine I wish they had not talked to him into using the plastic but it seem to be more modern and Progressive because plastic was new back then a novelty.
Umm, If you would have tried a bit you could have removed the back worm shaft gear without a grinder. I have done it a few times. It gets hairy if in the past it has been "shimmed". But then again the shim is most always in the front of the truck.
I tried quite a bit. a lot of footage is not shown in the video. The drive shaft was not coming out with out removing that plate. Thanks for your input. perhaps the next one I run into will come out easier :-)
I like my Williams engines. They are robust and simple the only thing that goes bad is the circuit board. They are great pullers and I just sit and let them Circle the layout for hours. The collectors can keep the Collectibles all they want. I remember when only motorcycle nuts had motorcycles and only train nuts had trains. And then these hordes of ritual farts went into both and out priced us out of everything. I'm just glad that they are so old and they can't take it with them hahaha.
@@classicmodeltrains you never heard of Williams trains? He started making reproductions of standard gauge Lionel items when the originals became too pricey for someone to afford he used to hire kids from the neighborhood to work for him one of those kids was Mike Wolfe from MTH. He's at started making reproductions of all of the post war Lionel line. They were very simple robust sturdy engines with just a circuit board for a horn and a whistle very reliable and very well priced. I had one take a dive off my train table and it just broke a horn off it. When Jerry Williams retired he sold the line to Bachmann trains which killed the line. Thank God I stocked up on anything and everything that I could find in my price range. They made great trains
Love your videos, Ron. Your flat N. Midwest accent & idioms are great humor & your knowledge of tools & techniques for rehabilitation of old gear is unsurpassed.. But one minor correction is in order - to say Lionel O-27 is 1/64 scale is just as wrong as saying it's accurate 1/48th. The "27" in O-27 refers to the diameter of a circle of track (27 inches) which was designed to fit a standard 4' x 8' sheet of plywood with enough room to spare for sidings/etc. Lionel was less concerned with scale accuracy (especially in the early post-war era) than what would fit comfortably in the small bedrooms of the time. While most rolling stock was not accurately scaled to 1/48, and was often much shorter, the proportions were also not 1/64. Do a little more research online to find this is true... Meantime - keep up the great work!
Doug, I would like to thank you for your kind words on my video. I appreciate if someone disagrees with the information I'm saying, they do a little "buttering up" before the hammer falls. It makes me feel as if we're having a "Gentleman's" conversation. In my extensive research I do on my video's, I continually come across websites that make reference to post-war Lionel O-27 having a scale of 1/64. Not all Pieces. Here is a quote I found after a simple google search. "True O27 is a 1/64 scale train operating on O trucks / wheels, made to run on O track, yet capable of handling a 27" diameter curve. True O27 fits within the definition of semi-scale. Offscale O27 is a train, smaller than O, made to run on O track, yet capable of handling a 27" diameter curve." Here is another example "Pretty much since the very beginning, Lionel and its competitors like American Flyer and Ives made trains in multiple sizes but running on the same track. By the late 1920s, they had all pretty much settled on two or three sizes of trains. The smaller trains, which ran on O27 track, had cars that were about 7.5 inches long. The bigger ones were 9 or 10 inches long. Lionel continued this in the postwar era. The smaller trains were O27, and most O27 cars, especially the boxcars and gondolas, were about 1:64 scale. That’s right, they were S scale cars on O gauge trucks. Flyer guys have been buying those cars out of junk boxes, repainting them, and putting S scale trucks on them for years. The blue Lionel gondola pictured above is exactly the same length, width, and height as a Flyer gondola." Now I also know Lionel used "selective compression" on some (most) of their pieces making them anywhere from 1/48 down to 1/64. So I can only conclude that they are kind of all over the board. What would be a good thing to say about the gauge vs scale argument I put forward in this video to please all the Lionel modelers out there? From the data that UA-cam has provided me, I have managed to offend many modelers with this abundance of information that I gleaned from the internet with very simple searches. I have done a lot of research in the making of this video. Thank you for commenting and engaging with me. If you have some information that could help a Feller out clearing up this confusion I would enjoy learning some more. Sincerely, Ron Davis.
@@classicmodeltrains Ron: And thank you for engaging with me as well (and so swiftly!). I guess the best thing you can say is what you said about selective compression. Lionel did do this extensively. But what you said in the video implied that all O-27 was 1/64. Info I have seen says that DID happen. But I have also seen info that says "No, if you take a prototype car, the S scale model (1/64) might be as long as the Lionel O-27, but the Lionel would still be taller and wider.", meaning the proportions are closer to 1/48 in those dimensions (& some in between - I saw 1:43 for example). The shorter length is to accommodate the tighter track radius (27 inch diameter of 8 pieces of 45 degree curve sections making a circle). I just found the implication that all O-27 is 1:64 misleading. But as I said, I really have been enjoying your work. Very well done (and I was a TV producer/director for 25 years so I have an idea what goes into what you do - did see your Studio Setup video, BTW - nice!). I have also subscribed... PS: I heard you talk about 54-year-old eyes. This is a bigger problem for me (74 & AMD - Age-related Macular Degeneration - to boot - eat your leafy greens & take Preservision - just a word of advice), PPS: How close to Chicago did you grow up? You sound close... PPS: Lionel was and remains Toy Trains - which is why they take so much license & why I ditched it to build my current HO layout, which is now OLDER THAN YOU! (56)
@@dougvalmore1450 Thank you for your polite response. As I move forward with this channel I learn so much from the research online, and also from viewers who take the time and share their knowledge with me. I am picking up what you are laying down. I generalized the Lionel O27 as a whole and I should have said "some". I think my takeaway will be the true "O" gauge stuff is MOSTLY 1/48 scale. The O27 stuff will be selectively compressed with some having 1/64 scale, but other pieces being somewhere in the spectrum between 1/64 and 1/48 depending on the Engineers and Accountant's, at the time. Thank you for saying my video's are very well put together. That means a lot coming from a former Producer / Director of TV. I spent many years in the entertainment industry. Live sound and lighting production. Bands both local and touring, industrial gigs. live theatrical stuff. Was a IATSE feller for many years. This channel is my first on camera work. Thanks for the channel Sub! I'm from the Upper mid-west, North Dakota region. When I was not shlepping Racks and Stacks, I worn my body out from being a heavy equipment mechanic. The entertainment industry and its labor force has changed so much over the last 15 years that it is no longer a good fit for me. I still miss it so I get to play a bit, by lighting and shooting these small video's, and mixing sound for them. Ive enjoyed this back and forth "conversation" today. If you have a Facebook account, I can be found on my Classic Model Trains fan page. Messaging there is not so "global". Take care! Ron.
@@classicmodeltrains N. Dakota... huh. Doesn't sound like what we heard in Fargo (though it's probably exaggerated like most movies). IATSE - huh. I was IBEW for 3 summers of vacation relief engineering during school before directing. Shot & edited ACTUAL FILM (everybody says "I filmed" but NO FILM INVOLVED - if they had EVER actually used film they would know the difference. Should say "I recorded" or "I shot" etc. Oh well). My business changed radically, too, when it went digital (hired someone half my age & half my wage who was already trained on digital from school rather than train me. Oh well). I miss it too. Do you ever do repairs for hire? I have a couple "Shelf Princesses" that my old eyes just can't hack anymore. Would love to see them move again... PS: What looks like copper contact strip is often phosphor bronze. Copper is sometimes too soft/malleable for applications that require more "srpingyness". Do a search of "phosphor bronze" to see what does look like copper...
I wished I had a circle of track here in the cabin so I could let them buck for an hour and get the room charged up with atmosphere. They do smell awesome when running!!
Yeah my f units I have the A and B 2383 I believe it's a 1958 model the power unit takes a D battery the operate the horn and underneath the fuel tank has a switch to make it go forward or backwards I do have the passenger cars that came with it the best way to describe them are is the ones with the screws on top that looks like vents to take the roof off and it all looks brand new my oldest one is 1932 Steam runs great I have a bunch of lie now stuff not like yours
Excuse me but the 2243 is just as much a 1/48 scale model of an F3 as the 2353. The difference is that the 2243 had only a single motor and was sold as an A-B set rather than an A-A set. Also, while the 2343 is a VERY nice engine, there are other road names which are FAR more desirable than ANY Santa Fe F3,
Good evening John, Thank you for commenting. Ive had a couple fellers bring this topic up about the 2243. When I was reading my David Doyle "standard catalog of Lionel trains" it mentions the 2243 as "part of it's O-27 line". I have never seen one so I could only go off my research. The word desirable was meant to reflect the model of the locomotive and the features it has, not the particular road name. I am not a creative writer, so it has become evident to me I have not conveyed my idea's very well. Thank you for commenting and allowing me to perhaps clear this up :-)
HI I HAD THE TWO A UNITS BACK IN THE 1950s OF ALL MY TRAINS AS MY DAD WAS REALLY INTO A HUGE PLATFORM AND HUNDREDS OF CARS AND ENGINES, THIS MODEL WAS THE WORST RUNNING ENGINE I HAD, NOT SURE WHY BUT IS ALWAYS SAT IN THE ROUNDHOUSE..TKS RON NOW 75 YEARS OLD..
A few comments have landed that the S.F #2343 is NOT the most sought after locomotive. I was trying to convey that this MODEL of F-3, the 1950-1953 F-3, has a lot of options that other productions runs of F-3's do not have. I have been made aware there is other road names that are much more rare. I'm sorry for the confusion 🙂
The 1957 Canadian Pacific F3 ABA set is probably the rarest. I've seen a set at train shows for around $6,000.00! It was only made for one year, 1957. I have the reproduction set that was reissued in 1973 and 1974. Being a 1957 Boomer, I would have loved to have the 1957 set, but will have to wait for a powerball ticket to hit to be able to afford that set!
@@johnphillips4342 Holy Moly! Thats a expensive set. Pretty cool you have a re-pro of it :-)
I bought a SF 2343 unit that had a pretty beat up shell to get a chasis with 2 motors and magna-traction and put the Candian Pacific shell on it since the repro unit was just a single motor locomotive. After watching the videos I need to do a cleaning of the SF and CP powered units. I also have the New York Central F3 ABA set, for 3 of those iconic F3 sets.
I doubt today's highly electronic Legacy locomotives will be running 70+ years from now. Lionel did a great job designing and building the locomotives of the 1950s and early 1960s.
@@johnphillips4342 Pretty cool you did a little mixing and made up a 2 motor C.P. 3 different road names of F-3, paint me jealous!! Yeah I don't think 2020 runs of model trains will be kicking around in 2090. Need to bring metal construction back :-)
@@classicmodeltrains the toy trains full of electronics that are prevalent in today's world of toy trains in the future the electronics will be just all cut out of the things and they will just run without any bells whistles Camp chatter speed indexing any of that garbage. My Williams locomotives the circuit boards generally the last about 12 to 14 years when they start singing to themselves that's the sign that they are about to go out. The rectifier is in the circuit board so if you hardwire the motors that you have to run straight DC and that I got no problem with when the time comes. It's amazing about the Canadian Pacific set because it was such a loser outside of Canada because who would want to spend such a amount of money for a Canadian Train. You could have bought as many as you wanted for less than suggested retail because people the shops were just want to get rid of them. I can't believe the ridiculous stupid money that's in these Hobbies now because of the rich people going in there and just jacking up the price of stuff left right and Center. They know nothing about toy trains or motorcycles but they managed to screw up both Hobby. Perhaps in 20 years you'll be doing videos about how to keep today's electronic trains running when you can't get electronic parts for them anymore. Even in the Box Electronics fail just from age. Coming from ho as far as I'm concerned as long as the train is running and the headlights on you're good.
I'm a senior. I walked into my grandparent's living room on Christmas morning when I was 4 or 5 and there it was, exactly this one - all set up beside the tree! I'm not sure who was more thrilled - Grampa or me. We spent a long time making scenery out of paper mache and pipe cleaners. May all your Christmases be merry.
What a GREAT Memory! Thanks for sharing :-)
It's amazing how you virtually remanufacture these locomotives. Just like the real ones with some maintenance and some oil and some spare parts they will last forever. Just like classical motorcycles.
Thanks Frank. Maintaining things makes em go a long way :-)
I have two sets of the Lionel F3 2343 Santa Fe and Two sets of the 2353 Santa Fe sets. I restored all of them myself and they will run forever. Great video! Thank you!
That is awesome!!
Nice Video! My Santa Fe ABA 2343 - purchased new for me by my parents in 1952 - is absolutely original and still running on my layout, pulling a 9 car consist of Lionel Lines 2500 series aluminum cars that duplicates the famous Super Chief. It has tremendous pulling power thanks to the weight/gear reduction/dual motors/magnetraction.
Thank you! Pretty cool you have the aluminum passenger cars also! What a great gift to get :-)
You are gonna make me want some "big-boy" trains! Lol! They sure cleaned up nice for being 75 years old. Neat!
They sure did!
WOW - great video. Thank you for all your hard work and improving the Model Train community.
Thank you very much :-)
Ron as a lifelong Lionel guy here's a small restoration tip. The absolute best thing to clean the clear plastic windshields and window inserts in illuminated cabooses and such is non abrasive toothpaste and water. Wash, rinse, air dry or hair dryer and they come out sparkling and smell minty fresh! Lol
Thank you for that info Howard. I actually waxed them with the turtle wax. sorta the same thing. A very light rubbing compound. Except mine were not minty fresh :-)
Very nice video. Thanks for explaining the difference between O and O27. A big thumbs up 👍 for the fresh haircut. The ladies will be chasing you down now.
Thanks for watching!
Ron your the best. Thanks for all your great videos. Will be looking for part 2.
Coming soon! Thanks :-)
Agree It’s Lucille Ball. Great video Ron! Repairing and restoring these locomotives is great these guys will be able to run for years ahead and be able to be serviced more easily to keep them going. They do loo great with the waxing. I would rather have a complete locomotive that works and is maintainable than something that is left broken for age sake, myself. I may be a heathen though. Great to see all the engineering in these locomotives! Oh. Haircut looks great as well, hope it helps with the panhandling income!!! Take care a always!
Thanks EC! They are engineered NICE!!
Excellent video very detailed to help the DIY person, thank you!!
Thank you! Glad it helped
Nice restoration! The wax made a massive difference. Can’t wait to see it run! Peace out
Thank you!
Canada is watchiing,near Toronto my wife and me enjjoy your videos,.We love Lionel @ American Flyer.Keep up the great work.
Thank you Bill!!
Beautiful Lucille Ball!
Yup!
I just found your channel and added you. I have always had small layouts so had o-27 trains. Now I have a slightly larger one. I'm looking for a 2343 AA set, so appreciate your tutorial. It's not wasted on me. I have rebuilt everything from jukeboxes to centrifuges. Thanks, O yeah, is that Lucille Ball?.
Thanks for subbing, sounds like your a fixer up kinda Feller! We would get along real good. Good luck on your search, and yes that Lucy early on.
Very nice video Ron! Looking forward to see the second part of the saga. Never occurred to me the use of polishing wax the way you did. Living and learning… thanks a lot!
Thanks Regis! I've polished up a bunch of old turd cars back in the day, I figured it should work on these also :-)
Another great video. You are right these are the most wanted engines. I have wanted a set of these for a long time. This set looks fantastic! Looking forward to seeing the next video.
Thank you very much!
LOL Ron!!! Love the comedy in the video! These things are NICE looking for the age they are. Have to think that some kid back in the '50's got this for a present and who knows how long they ran it. Nice Work!!!
I was I was a rich kid back in the 50's. But being a middle class kid from the 70's wasn't bad either :-) Thanks for your nice words once again Ray
Thanks for sharing!!! You have some Skills!!! Wow, great job! I have my original #2353 ABA. Louvers on top, no grab irons on the front, ladders on the side. I found a '55 catalog with my set advertised, and I still have the set and the big ZW transformer.....BUT not the skills to sharpen it all back up!!! Again thanks for sharing!!!
Glad you enjoyed it (them). Cool you have the whole set.
Lucille Ball...
I'm reserving further comment until I witness the rest of this production, however I really like everything that I've seen so far. The details are everything...
Right on Brad! I'm surprised you recognize Lucy from the way early days.
Good stuff Ron.....
Thanks 👍
I signed up because of the trans plus much more because of your estroverted type of speech best wishes from your brazilian writing
Muito obrigado meu amigo. Eu aprecio suas amáveis palavras!
Wow what a piece of design engineering!
These were pretty cool "toys" back in the day
Excellent video. Lucille Ball. Be safe
Thanks Brad!
just an excellent video that is very informative and worth while to watch. I'm a new fan! Thanks so much!
Thank you RL for your kind words! Welcome aboard
Have My late Father's NYC 2354 set..Inspired to clean and polish.
That is awesome!
I like how you explained how there's are differences between scale versus gauge. Many people use it interchangeable in model trains (especially in O Gauge versus O Scale), but there is a difference. Also, I'm looking forward to part 2 of the series. Now, you just need something to run them around to show off the handy work.
I'm gunna need a bigger cabin to hold a proper radius "O" gauge 1:48 scale R.R. Thanks for watching :-)
I'm a happy owner of the 2343 set. The hole set with passenger cars. I tore it down to the bear frame cleaned, greased, lube runs like new sadly the horn don't work.
Awesome! Hopefully this spring I can scare up a set of passenger cars :-)
Thanks for doing a vid of one of my favorite trains ever I could just by Santa Fe’s and I would be soo happy
Thanks for watching!
This is one that has eluded me for years. I have always wanted this one and the Pennsylvania GG1
The GG1 would be a great one to take apart and see how it works!!
Hi Ron, Thanks for the video. Just terrific! I’m going to refer to it when I get around to servicing my F3. Back in 1950 or 51, I received my train set for Christmas. I was about eight years old. I still have it today. The set included the Santa Fe 2343 F3 powered unit and dummy unit. The set also came with a coal car, log car, searchlight car, freight car, caboose, RW transformer, track for an oval, and a disconnect track (the one with the round red electro-magnet in the center). My parents paid about $69 for it(a lot of money back then). The following Christmas I got the B unit, and later got the Santa Fe switch engine.
Back in that era kids were crazy for Lionel trains. Every kid had them (although there were a few outliers that had American Flyer LOL). A lot of kids had fathers that were just as crazy for them. So they had huge layouts. It was a great era.
I grew up in the 70's-80's era. Still a pretty good time. The 50's sounded like it was a better time. Pretty Cool you still have that great set!
@@classicmodeltrains The early fifties was a pretty great time for Lionel. We lived in New Jersey, and every year at Christmas time we’d go to New York City. The highlight was the Lionel display at Times Square. Lionel had a huge layout in the flatiron building showing off all of their new stuff. People were always huddled around the windows about five deep. Kind of like the scene in Christmas Story. Lol
@@rpondyke2121 That sounds pretty cool to have seen them kind of displays
Have a couple of them. Best running engine ever
Right on!! I agree with you :-)
Morning Ron!
Good day to you Sir!
Great job!I have an MPC era Sante Fe Warbonnets which have the simplified vertical Pull Mor motor and it pulls pretty well.Yours has the horizontal motors that are outstanding pullers and are indeed nicknamed Coffee Grinders!
Thanks! Glad the hear the MPC is a pretty good puller :-)
@@classicmodeltrains yes I have it pulling an 11 unit train in the upper level
Learned from experience to pass on any mpc era item and save up for better built, longer lasting stuff. Gary j
@@thetrainboard2772 Yes,that good advice. If you buy something of lesser quality you will never forget what you paid for it ,but if you buy quality you will forget what it costs. I wise old guy told me that years ago and now I’m old man and still recall what he said to me.
Fascinating.
Thanks
Excellent video! My Father has an original 2343 ABA set he got for his birthday and still runs it to this day. I will definitely show him this video. You did a great job on the cleanup and restoration. I’m looking forward to part 2 !
Thank you Bob!
Off topic I know, but do you happen to know where I can locate some layout plans? I own a O gauge 2343 ABA set, but I don't have a clue what size curves to use and so on. Thanks.
@@les6556 the curve size should be the largest you can fit in your space. The space determines the curve, not the engine. Many modern engines require 072 curves, 6 ft diameter but your engine will run on anything. Gary j
I have a set of these, AA, bought about 25 years ago. They were old then...
The engine center rail rollers will show more wear then you would expect due to the high amperage those two motors take. They spark very much.
I did two things to have those rollers last longer, since I was young and did not have much extra money back then. I added 2 wire jumpers between the active roller frames and the contact point on the end of that roller frame for better electrical contact, and then ran a wire from the dummy unit to the powered unit center rail connections. Less sparking and better power to the motors that way.
You will want a larger then 90 watt transformer if you run these often.
Thanks for the great info. I have a 250 watt ZW these bigguns will be suckling from :-)
I will never own O Scale as its too big for me but I love watching them run. Love your channel and love watching your repairs Ron :)
Stu
They are a monster. Thanks for watching Stu!!
Wait til your eyesight starts to fail... You'll appreciate O gauge much more then.
On a 4x6 or a 4x8 layout you could have a nice setup of O gauge and/or 027 there are plenty of track plans for small areas you don't have to have a great big Museum size layout to have fun. Go ahead take the plunge you'll enjoy it.
I like your overalls!
Thanks!
Now that's a tough drive line. Lionel quality back in the day. If you're looking for replacement rollers, I found part number 2367-192. Where you oiled the pickup rollers, use Inox unless the oil is designed for electric use. Very good part 1.
Thanks for the info!
Did you mean to say NO-OX rather than Inox? Never heard of Inox.
@@les6556 it's Inox. It's an Australian brand of WD-40, but in my opinion it better than WD-40.
@@TheCreativeMind Thanks for clarifying. I use NO-OX-ID. Leaves an almost undetectible coating on the track, and improves the performance. It's a paste that is applied thinly along the running surface of the track. I'll have to look up Inox. Thnx for the tip.
@@les6556 Yes, I blew it and missed it in editing. Sorry
Also, Lionel shared production startup and tooling and engineering costs with the various railroads and I believe also with EMD to help promote and bring this replica F-3 to life.😎
I read about that. Pretty cool deal for Lionel !
Thanks for explaining the difference between "scale" and "gauge". I didn't know that Lionel 027 was 1/64th scale and not true 1/43rd scale. Since I model a period before 1950, most of my engines are steamers. Only diesel I have is a Texas Special that only goes forward. I changed out the incandescent headlight to a 5mm LED with ballast resistor (current limiting resistor). I guess all my "O" gauge are 027 "scale". Doesn't matter 'cause my track is 027 that I weathered. I've got to review your video on adding extra ties to the track. Cheers from eastern TN
Yup a lot of Fellers mistake scale and gauge. A Lionel true "O" scale will be quite a bit larger than a O-27 one.
I collect vintage trains and I would like this in my collection
I seem to have a collection growing also. These are nice pieces
Hey, that's my train, 3 Santa Fe engines with the middle without windows, exact color scheme. Lost in the 1970s. I want it back, after you repair it first, of course.
:-)
I have a 2333 F-3 in both Santa Fe and NYC livery. Both have magne-traction. Both were purchased by my father around 1948, '49 or '50 and have remained in my family's possession since then.
Very cool!! From my research I found that magna traction was introduced in 1950. the only difference between the 2333 and the 2343 was magna traction. Perhaps someone has installed magna traction trucks back in the day? But then I again I could have some bad information. Thanks for watching and commenting :-)
I just scored a set of these! You lucky duck! I did not get the B unit though. Great video as usual! Lucille Ball.
you are correct! Great job on scoring a A-A set!! hope you can find a "B" out there :-)
Love your presentations, thanks. I have an older version or maybe a cheaper model of the Santa Fe. If I sent you a photo could you identify it for me . At 81 years old I’m setting up my first train set. Thanks
Hello John. Just tell me the engine number up on the nose. I can look up what year it is.
I much enjoyed your F7 video. I actually own one of these ABA sets .. at least I think that's how they were purchased.. maybe separately I don't know. I was born in 1955 and I'm guessing my dad figured I wanted this for Christmas.. in our earliest family Christmas pictures and 8 mm movies I'm like 4 or 5. I must say that it still runs .. unfortunately the power pack died after a drop while moving in 88. I'm guessing bakalite.
Thank you Eric! These F-3's were sold as A-A set or A-B-A sets. Cool that it still runs. If your transformer only has a broken case I've had success glueing Bakelite back together with CA glue (superglue). Pretty cool your Dad played trains with you as a youngster!!
Just curious, how do you dust all of your trains on the shelf behind you.
Feather duster with a shop vac hose nearby to “hopefully” suck up the airborn dust.
@@classicmodeltrains thanks
I watched the body disassembly portion several times, but never saw the original clear portal windows being removed or out on the work bench. I agree the originals look much better. Were they simply round discs that press into the counterbore? The "new" version, with the flange, creates an unusual fish eye affect that I don't find appealing.
Excellent informative video!! Thank you for posting this.
The powered A had no original windows. The dummy A had 2 and the dummy B had 2 originals. I popped them out early on and had no footage of that. When I ordered in new port hole windows they only came in 8 pack. I installed the new ones in the A's and glued in the originals into the B. You have a very sharp eye! I agree the new ones have a funny look to them. I would prefer originals. Thanks for watching and commenting :-)
Hello Ron. Outstanding video. You’re correct, this is an iconic locomotive. The design of the locomotive, and paint scheme made this the most sold Lionel locomotive during the Postwar years. I personally have these locomotives myself, along with the original passenger cars that came with them. It’s the Lionel #2190W Super Speedliner Set from 1952. You should hunt down the original 4 2500 Series passenger cars for these locomotives, and you’ll have an incredible set. The #2531, #2532, #2533, and the #2534. If you want to take it a bit further, you can get the add on baggage car for it to really complete the set, and that’s the #2530 baggage car. There are 2 variations of this car, a Large door, or a Small door version. The large door version is not very common, and was only produced in early 1954. Subsequently, the smaller door version is much more common to find. Also to note, I noticed the light bulb that was in the powered unit. That is an incorrect bulb. The correct bulb should be a #1445 18v lamp. The bulb you have in there looks like it might be a #57 lamp which is a 12-16v lamp. The main difference other than the voltage railing is the Size of the bulb. The 2343 require a 3 1/2 eighths shape bulb, (7/16”) and your bulb is a 4 1/2 eighths shape bulb, (9/16”). It needs the smaller shape bulb because the power truck motor will come in contact with the larger shape bulb that you have in there. The clearances are tight between the bulb and the power truck. It’s not as critical with the dummy unit, but that too the recommended light bulb is a #1445. This way the the brightness of the bulb remain consistent between both locomotives. As far as the horn, you should be able to find a good used original horn for this F3 on eBay. You can also find a reproduction horn as well if you so wish, unless of course you want to restore it all original. That would really set that apart from everything else out there. I’m an avid Postwar Lionel collector and operator myself, and I hope this helps you out with your restoration. Regards, Tom
Greetings Tom! THANK YOU VERY MUCH for the great information you shared. I believe I had a line on them passenger cars on e-bay. Aluminum extruded right? There was 4 of them, in pretty bad shape, restorable of course, but I thought the bids got a bit high so I backed off. Should have pressed on. The old bulb I pulled out was a #57, but I did notice what you mentioned with the clearance issue. I shall hunt down some #1445's. I couldn't find a original horn on the bay, but did locate a repro being offered. $20 seemed fair. Your information definitely helped out!! Hope your holidays are good for you and yours, Ron
I have an old 0 gauge F3 A-B-A with passenger cars, and a box full of tracks, but I don't have a clue about layouts. Would you happen to have any track layout plans? Is there a minimum radius to use for the curves? Thanks.
@@les6556 Just found this comment. Sorry for the long reply time. I believe the minimum radius for these is 31". I don't have any track plans but the google machine is filled with so many of them you won't know which one you want to do first :-)
Any suggestions for removing mold from these units? I've got a set but they both have mold(mildew?) on the bodies. I don't want to damage them.
I wash mine with dawn dish soap and a tooth brush.
Model is Lucille Ball. Great job on Loco. I used to have a 1955 BN 2328. Would like to find one in good condition.
Yup! Thanks and good luck on your search for the 2328 :-)
My big boy table moment was when I got my UP 4141George Bush."O" is one of the scales I don't have Ron. I'll leave it to ya👍🚂🇨🇦🇺🇲
Cool! We can sit at the table and know someone ;-)
@@classicmodeltrains 🤣🙋
Yes sir, I have several because they're all that.
Right on! I wished I had a big azz layout so I could see how much they can pull :-)
@@classicmodeltrains check my videos, I've pulled 70 cars on a floor layout with one 2343!
@@joeystrains.9316 Good Lord!! That would be awesome. I shall check that vid out!!
2243 and 2383 are the same except the 2243 only has one motor. Also, 2243 was sold as A-B only.
Yup
I have both the 2343 and the 2333 which I purchased new shells from Lou at Madison Hwr in 1977. The 2333 has horizontal motors…
A couple of Classic keepers!!
@@classicmodeltrains According to Lou Shur back in 1978, he told me that the lowest production was the Canadian Pacific F3’s & passenger set; however he also said the Texas Special AB was the most desirable! In 1979 I was able to purchase the Canadian Pacific set for $500. All boxed and rarely used…
@@classicmodeltrains And I must add an honorable mention. The Super O New Haven AB set; I have it from 1958.
The odd thing is; it only has one motor in the A unit! So at an old Greenburg show I P/U 2 rear F vertical motors and put them in the B unit. The set includes the Mint and the Aquarium cars and the black 6464 New Haven and the white caboose. I just wish Lionel would have made 072 super O curves…
@@Myriadconcepts-q9u pretty cool you scored the CP so long ago when the price was not yet thru the roof !!
@@Myriadconcepts-q9u sounds like you have a lot of really nice desirable items. very jealous! 🙂
I reckon I’m gonna have ta start an O Scale collection!
If the wife lets me. lol
It's time Jeb ;-)
looking at the rear frame of the powered unit, the two little holes in the center of the frame, are the horn mounting mounting holes.
On top of the Zed bracket' the horn, mounts over the drive shaft, of the motor....
I'm not that smart, but I have a service manual!!
Yeah, I mentioned the holes later on in the video. I need to get on ordering up a new horn for the Gal :-)
Question: I own an 0 gauge F-3 A-B-A with passenger cars. I'm new to this and I'm wanting to build a layout. What is the minimum size curve I need to use on a layout. Anyone know where I can find some layouts/drawings? Appreciate any help I can get. Thanks.
Your radius would need to be at or larger than 31”. That number sometimes confuses people so I will say for the locomotive robs able to make a u-turn the track will take up 62” center of the track. Over 5 feet wide layout to make a turn. That’s minimum. I would do no less than 36-42 radius. O gauge is real big so it likes large turns. Now someone will come along and say there’s runs just fine on O-27 track. (27” radius) but believe me bigger curves are always better.
@@classicmodeltrains I have both 0-27 and 0 ga. On an 0=27 setup the F3 requires at least a 42" radius. I was not sure on the 0 gauge. Thanks for the info.
Excellent video Ron! Just curious, for those of us who do not have an ultrasonic cleaner, will heating up a pot of water do the job? Thanks!
Thank you! Hot water won't clean as good as an ultrasonic. The ultrasonic vibrates very very fast and creates cavitation in the cleaning liquid. tiny bubbles "blow up" causing the dirt and scum to be removed with out having to scrub it.
@@classicmodeltrains Thanks Ron! I will have to invest in one then! ✌🏼
Lionel used to put ever ready batteries in all of their locomotives because they never thought of them sitting on a shelf for 40 or 50 years and the battery eating away at the locomotive because it leaked. They figured that they would be sold at Christmas and the battery would just be changed whenever it wore out. I actually saw a court case on TV where a guy bought a gg1 I think might have been an F3 I don't remember but it was heating Away by the battery acid that was inside it and the seller said it was meant in the Box unopened so he didn't know there was a battery in there or is that the engine was damaged it was sold brand new in the box. The judge ruled for the seller because he said there was no way for him to know because if he had opened up the box then it would lose value.
Kind of a sad story. Didnt know Lionel shipped them with batteries installed. Kind of a catch 22 for collectors.
I use a mixture of 50% ammonia with 50% water and spray down the shells with a sprayer bottle in the sink. I let it sit for about 1 minute and use the kitchen sprayer to spray the goobers and dust away. Dry with a soft cloth. No wax here, just a bit of touch-up paint.
Sounds like a good idea to me!
HOW DID YOU GET YOUR HANDS ON THAT?!?
Found it in a second hand store.
@@classicmodeltrains nice. You’re very lucky!
The 2343 was again produced in a conventional mode in 2008 in an AA set like they did in the post war period. I have a set from 2008 myself.
I figured Lionel would have brought this one back during that time period. They re-launched some excellent pre and post stuff. I wonder if that affected the collectors market? You know, bringing prices down on original stuff because you could buy a new "original" stuff.
You have the 1950 only version with the large red EMD emblem.
I was thinking I had the 1952 version. I will investigate some more. Thanks for your input :-)
The Old 27 F3 and the old gauge F3 with the same but the 0271 I think had only one motor
Thats what Ive been hearing.
There’s NOTHING you can’t repair, Ron! 🚂
Thank you Joseph :-)
Where can I buy those collector rollers?
Google "The Train Tender". He's in upstate New York.
Do my peepers deceive me or did a fella stumble upon vcg for classic trains??? Subcribed
Thanks Dan for the Sub. I watch VGG a lot. Were both from the same neck of the woods,( the State of N.D.) perhaps our personalities are sorta the same. He makes interesting vid's to watch and that's my goal also. A little teaching and a little fun! :-)
what a difference in craftmanship between HO and O TY
Back in the 50's the craftsmanship was the same for all gauges.
My grandpa had those engines I believe
These were pretty popular back in "The Day" :-)
@@classicmodeltrains I have this old lionel device that makes my engine make a whistle sound, but Im not sure how to hook it up. can you give some advice. It has two buttons on it, one for a whistle, and one for reverse.
@@3dartistguy I'm not a Lionel expert (yet) so off the top of my head with no pictures it sorta sounds like the power transformer. I have a FB page under classicmodeltrains. if you can send me a picture on the messenger, perhaps I can help out more
I love Lucy
Yup!
Do you restore your own train models or do you fix others ones as well
I do some other Fellers stuff also.
Lionel's most iconic model ever made the warbonnet is just amazing
I like the way you think!! :-)
The “classic star pic” is of Lucille Ball (when I was a kid, my interpretation of my mom’s pronunciation was “Lucy O’Ball”).
Imagine my shock after I learned to read then caught her “real” name on the credits for her TV Series (I Love Lucy, and next Here’s Lucy which I saw more because of a puppy crush on Lucie Arnaz vs her star mother). Alas, crushes are fleeting, and I didn’t follow Arnaz’s career 🙂.
I always seen Lucy in her "I love Lucy" days. Her whinny characters voice drove me nuts. I suppose if I had seen her in some earlier movies, where she played a more "normal" character, I could have developed a puppy crush also :-) I saw a documentary on her a few months back. I never knew she did modeling or movies before meeting Dezi.
Whats the pull power on postwar F3s? How much cars can they carry? I have some Lionel Lines silver coaches that are heavy. Is it supposed to carry all that weight? Amazing video by the way! I Subscribed!
Thanks for the new sub!! I dont know how much they can pull. This particular one is supposed to be there best puller with dual motors and magnatraction wheels. One day I will have a large enough layout to find out
Yes the original portholes were on the 2333 and 2343 which were more like a contact lens. Lionel knew that the windows would easily pop out of the locomotives from the lightest of handling or age. So the 2344 Lionel switched to the snap in portholes from late 52 early 53 to 1955. The replacement called to use the later designed portholes as replacements when the originals fell out. Front load washing machine! LMFAO! YES SIR THEY DO!
This one had missing contact lens looking ones. Replacements from the eBay were ugly but all I can get :-)
Those clips are called horseshoe clips
That makes since! Thanks :-)
The O vs O27 thing is not really based on scale. It was more like Lionel Premium vs Budget line of trains. There are many examples of Lionel steam engines that are identical with the exception of the number stamped on the cab, such as the 675/2025, the 671/2020, and the 646/2046. Lionel didn't use separate numbers for their rolling stock. Their items made in the early postwar years for both product lines were closer to 1/64 while items made from roughly 1952 and later tended to be closer to 1/48. O27 track was made cheaper than O gauge. O27 gauge sets typically included transformers, while O gauge sets typically did not.
Lots of good information out there. I read the change to O-27 was of course for budget minded consumers, but also the "O' stuff took up so much room in the house. They scaled everything down to accommodate the smaller sized houses being manufactured (if I read that article right :-)
It dame is Lucille Ball!
Yup!
The clip on the windshield is referred to as a speed nut
SPEED NUT! there it is. Thank you. I like those when the pin is threaded. push on to hold, twist off like a nut to disassemble. :-)
Imagine how great that locomotive would be if Lionel had not made the plastic shell and had made it diecast like all of his other locomotives. They used virgin plastic and not regrind. Regrind is the stuff that gets squeezed out of the mold and that gets cut off and then put in the mold with fresh virgin plastic and it would deform in a short time. American Flyer tried using regrind to make plastic train cars out of and the cars would warp completely out of shape. Of course they did not know such things would happen because nobody made stuff out of plastic before they didn't know what to do and what not to do that was stuff that they learned.
diecast shell....WOW that would be a heavy loco!!
@@classicmodeltrains there were two men in Mexico who made bootleg copies of Lionel f3s with a diecast shell they had a falling out and no more engines were made. I like diecast over plastic anytime. I didn't mind plastic when I was in Ho because everything was plastic in HO trains. I had a few diecast cars in HO trains and I like the solid h e f t of my diecast Varney F3. It would have been nice if he had a diecast F3 the way Varney had. The company that made the plastic that Lionel used guaranteed it would be quality because Lionel was not sure of making anything for a diecast engine I wish they had not talked to him into using the plastic but it seem to be more modern and Progressive because plastic was new back then a novelty.
Umm, If you would have tried a bit you could have removed the back worm shaft gear without a grinder.
I have done it a few times. It gets hairy if in the past it has been "shimmed". But then again the shim is most always in the front of the truck.
I tried quite a bit. a lot of footage is not shown in the video. The drive shaft was not coming out with out removing that plate. Thanks for your input. perhaps the next one I run into will come out easier :-)
My ges on the lady middle is Beddy Davis....
Lucy Ball
Those Clips we call "Jesus" clips are really called "C" clips.
:-)
I like my Williams engines. They are robust and simple the only thing that goes bad is the circuit board. They are great pullers and I just sit and let them Circle the layout for hours. The collectors can keep the Collectibles all they want. I remember when only motorcycle nuts had motorcycles and only train nuts had trains. And then these hordes of ritual farts went into both and out priced us out of everything. I'm just glad that they are so old and they can't take it with them hahaha.
Never heard of Williams. I shall have to go and do some research
@@classicmodeltrains you never heard of Williams trains? He started making reproductions of standard gauge Lionel items when the originals became too pricey for someone to afford he used to hire kids from the neighborhood to work for him one of those kids was Mike Wolfe from MTH. He's at started making reproductions of all of the post war Lionel line. They were very simple robust sturdy engines with just a circuit board for a horn and a whistle very reliable and very well priced. I had one take a dive off my train table and it just broke a horn off it. When Jerry Williams retired he sold the line to Bachmann trains which killed the line. Thank God I stocked up on anything and everything that I could find in my price range. They made great trains
I think those are called "C" clips. Cheers - TN
Sounds good to me!
Was that Lucile Ball?
Yes
My guess, the female model is Hedy Lamarr.
Lucille Ball.
I have a 2343 santa fe train
Right on!
Love your videos, Ron. Your flat N. Midwest accent & idioms are great humor & your knowledge of tools & techniques for rehabilitation of old gear is unsurpassed.. But one minor correction is in order - to say Lionel O-27 is 1/64 scale is just as wrong as saying it's accurate 1/48th.
The "27" in O-27 refers to the diameter of a circle of track (27 inches) which was designed to fit a standard 4' x 8' sheet of plywood with enough room to spare for sidings/etc.
Lionel was less concerned with scale accuracy (especially in the early post-war era) than what would fit comfortably in the small bedrooms of the time. While most rolling stock was not accurately scaled to 1/48, and was often much shorter, the proportions were also not 1/64. Do a little more research online to find this is true...
Meantime - keep up the great work!
Doug, I would like to thank you for your kind words on my video. I appreciate if someone disagrees with the information I'm saying, they do a little "buttering up" before the hammer falls. It makes me feel as if we're having a "Gentleman's" conversation. In my extensive research I do on my video's, I continually come across websites that make reference to post-war Lionel O-27 having a scale of 1/64. Not all Pieces. Here is a quote I found after a simple google search.
"True O27 is a 1/64 scale train operating on O trucks / wheels, made to run on O track, yet capable of handling a 27" diameter curve. True O27 fits within the definition of semi-scale. Offscale O27 is a train, smaller than O, made to run on O track, yet capable of handling a 27" diameter curve."
Here is another example
"Pretty much since the very beginning, Lionel and its competitors like American Flyer and Ives made trains in multiple sizes but running on the same track. By the late 1920s, they had all pretty much settled on two or three sizes of trains. The smaller trains, which ran on O27 track, had cars that were about 7.5 inches long. The bigger ones were 9 or 10 inches long. Lionel continued this in the postwar era. The smaller trains were O27, and most O27 cars, especially the boxcars and gondolas, were about 1:64 scale. That’s right, they were S scale cars on O gauge trucks. Flyer guys have been buying those cars out of junk boxes, repainting them, and putting S scale trucks on them for years. The blue Lionel gondola pictured above is exactly the same length, width, and height as a Flyer gondola."
Now I also know Lionel used "selective compression" on some (most) of their pieces making them anywhere from 1/48 down to 1/64. So I can only conclude that they are kind of all over the board. What would be a good thing to say about the gauge vs scale argument I put forward in this video to please all the Lionel modelers out there? From the data that UA-cam has provided me, I have managed to offend many modelers with this abundance of information that I gleaned from the internet with very simple searches.
I have done a lot of research in the making of this video. Thank you for commenting and engaging with me. If you have some information that could help a Feller out clearing up this confusion I would enjoy learning some more.
Sincerely,
Ron Davis.
@@classicmodeltrains Ron: And thank you for engaging with me as well (and so swiftly!). I guess the best thing you can say is what you said about selective compression. Lionel did do this extensively. But what you said in the video implied that all O-27 was 1/64. Info I have seen says that DID happen. But I have also seen info that says "No, if you take a prototype car, the S scale model (1/64) might be as long as the Lionel O-27, but the Lionel would still be taller and wider.", meaning the proportions are closer to 1/48 in those dimensions (& some in between - I saw 1:43 for example).
The shorter length is to accommodate the tighter track radius (27 inch diameter of 8 pieces of 45 degree curve sections making a circle). I just found the implication that all O-27 is 1:64 misleading.
But as I said, I really have been enjoying your work. Very well done (and I was a TV producer/director for 25 years so I have an idea what goes into what you do - did see your Studio Setup video, BTW - nice!). I have also subscribed...
PS: I heard you talk about 54-year-old eyes. This is a bigger problem for me (74 & AMD - Age-related Macular Degeneration - to boot - eat your leafy greens & take Preservision - just a word of advice),
PPS: How close to Chicago did you grow up? You sound close...
PPS: Lionel was and remains Toy Trains - which is why they take so much license & why I ditched it to build my current HO layout, which is now OLDER THAN YOU! (56)
@@dougvalmore1450 Thank you for your polite response. As I move forward with this channel I learn so much from the research online, and also from viewers who take the time and share their knowledge with me. I am picking up what you are laying down. I generalized the Lionel O27 as a whole and I should have said "some". I think my takeaway will be the true "O" gauge stuff is MOSTLY 1/48 scale. The O27 stuff will be selectively compressed with some having 1/64 scale, but other pieces being somewhere in the spectrum between 1/64 and 1/48 depending on the Engineers and Accountant's, at the time.
Thank you for saying my video's are very well put together. That means a lot coming from a former Producer / Director of TV. I spent many years in the entertainment industry. Live sound and lighting production. Bands both local and touring, industrial gigs. live theatrical stuff. Was a IATSE feller for many years. This channel is my first on camera work.
Thanks for the channel Sub! I'm from the Upper mid-west, North Dakota region. When I was not shlepping Racks and Stacks, I worn my body out from being a heavy equipment mechanic. The entertainment industry and its labor force has changed so much over the last 15 years that it is no longer a good fit for me. I still miss it so I get to play a bit, by lighting and shooting these small video's, and mixing sound for them. Ive enjoyed this back and forth "conversation" today. If you have a Facebook account, I can be found on my Classic Model Trains fan page. Messaging there is not so "global". Take care! Ron.
@@classicmodeltrains N. Dakota... huh. Doesn't sound like what we heard in Fargo (though it's probably exaggerated like most movies).
IATSE - huh. I was IBEW for 3 summers of vacation relief engineering during school before directing. Shot & edited ACTUAL FILM (everybody says "I filmed" but NO FILM INVOLVED - if they had EVER actually used film they would know the difference. Should say "I recorded" or "I shot" etc. Oh well). My business changed radically, too, when it went digital (hired someone half my age & half my wage who was already trained on digital from school rather than train me. Oh well). I miss it too.
Do you ever do repairs for hire? I have a couple "Shelf Princesses" that my old eyes just can't hack anymore. Would love to see them move again...
PS: What looks like copper contact strip is often phosphor bronze. Copper is sometimes too soft/malleable for applications that require more "srpingyness". Do a search of "phosphor bronze" to see what does look like copper...
Try to get the index gears for pancake motor of Bachmann F40PH Amtrak HO
Thats gunna be tough. Most of them are probably cracked
I feel like I can smell that train.
I wished I had a circle of track here in the cabin so I could let them buck for an hour and get the room charged up with atmosphere. They do smell awesome when running!!
Yeah my f units I have the A and B 2383 I believe it's a 1958 model the power unit takes a D battery the operate the horn and underneath the fuel tank has a switch to make it go forward or backwards I do have the passenger cars that came with it the best way to describe them are is the ones with the screws on top that looks like vents to take the roof off and it all looks brand new my oldest one is 1932 Steam runs great I have a bunch of lie now stuff not like yours
Hello Mike! Cool you have the passenger cars, Plus a pre-war steam!! RIGHT ON!!!
Excuse me but the 2243 is just as much a 1/48 scale model of an F3 as the 2353. The difference is that the 2243 had only a single motor and was sold as an A-B set rather than an A-A set. Also, while the 2343 is a VERY nice engine, there are other road names which are FAR more desirable than ANY Santa Fe F3,
Good evening John, Thank you for commenting. Ive had a couple fellers bring this topic up about the 2243. When I was reading my David Doyle "standard catalog of Lionel trains" it mentions the 2243 as "part of it's O-27 line". I have never seen one so I could only go off my research. The word desirable was meant to reflect the model of the locomotive and the features it has, not the particular road name. I am not a creative writer, so it has become evident to me I have not conveyed my idea's very well. Thank you for commenting and allowing me to perhaps clear this up :-)
It was Lucille Ball
Yup!
Lucille Ball
yup!
HI I HAD THE TWO A UNITS BACK IN THE 1950s OF ALL MY TRAINS AS MY DAD WAS REALLY INTO A HUGE PLATFORM AND HUNDREDS OF CARS AND ENGINES, THIS MODEL WAS THE WORST RUNNING ENGINE I HAD, NOT SURE WHY BUT IS ALWAYS SAT IN THE ROUNDHOUSE..TKS RON NOW 75 YEARS OLD..
Glad you enjoyed the video. Perhaps you can get yours running top notch now, after viewing this :-)
WELL WHEN I WAS IN SOUTH EAST ASIA MY MOM SOLD ALL MY TRAINS TO A DETECTIVE SHE WORKED WITH, SO NO TRAINS NOW TKS RON