I did comment on Josh's latest. But after I did, saying something about how his design processes "got ahead of his philosophy", I realized it's easy to glean what his philosophy might be from his older content: he's a nerd for tech stuff, so he wants an excuse to use it. That's why he has the elaborate gear and, for a while, reviewed it. And the AI stuff has that appeal to him, too: it's a gadget to tinker with. His illustrations take way more time than necessary because he is tinkering. That is, on its own, actually OK. Playing around with media is a thing artists do, digitally or not. But if he said that, it would go against the image he's crafted of being a role model for good practices. That's why he says things about skill, trying to create a gatekept position for himself where it's okay for him to be a tech nerd who uses the gadgets thoughtlessly. I think he's in a tough spot now.
@@JH-pe3ro yea i totally get that. i feel like he is making it so much harder for himself by trying to prove a point that AI can be useful, by just dragging out his process by ‘tinkering’ as you say. it’s a lot to manage just for one drawing all at once
SOOOO he can't use it cuz CUTL LIKE CAVE MAN that wanna witch HUNT but can't come up with ANY logical arguments so you just resume to use the most LOW IQ reason to take some one that DARE TO go against the ANTI-AI CULT !@!!! get off the hight horse aand your dumb moreal outcry cuz you can't for the love of god ACCEPT not every one thinks the same HE IS ALLOWED to use this tool you on the other hand can cry me a river
I feel like he’s taking the “I’m right and you’re all wrong because I didn’t generate the references I just took them from someone who did so it’s okay” route with his statement on Instagram stories. Like what’s the point of using AI references if they look just like human art 😭 is it that hard to use man made art as reference? Smh I hope people don’t back up this behavior.
exactly! in his newest video which i watched all the way through, he is just saying how we act childish because we feel concerend about the theft aspect. He is just saying just because he knows what he's doing, just excuses all ethical concerens. i dont think ive seen one positive comment on that video so far😭😭
Only "artists" care about ai. Actual artist use every tool they can. Hating ai is just silly. I just asked ai to write me a grant proposal. It needed a lot of rewrites and I'll refine it over time. Scoff all you want, the rest of us have moved on.
@@aidenjonesart Crazy because you need to look harder and I most certainly support his use of it I dont care about ethics to begin with if you have the skill to still draw certain aspects of your piece but then wanna photobash and take something form an AI image thats fine I dont care.
I think people have forgot about a crucial fact is that Josh is foremost a content creator and artist is second. It explains why he wants an excuse to use AI. It's exactly the reason they invented AI generated images in the first place, because it's fast and cheap, not because it's beautiful. People who push AI are either for money or for fame. None of them are for art. Just don't give them what they want.
Yes, I feel like Josh is more into technology than art now, even though he does love and enjoy it. He loves tech and loves finding new and fun ways to play with it, as he is doing now by incorporating ai into his art work. I just feel weird because a few months ago he was so anti-ai and now he is all for it.
I still think that AI image generation technology came from the NFT era. They wanted image generated pictures that they can sell as NFTs, but when the hyped collapsed and exposed as a scam, they had to repurpose the technology.
Did anyone even watch the video? His use of AI is basically just making some base textures. He still drew and painted almost the entirety of the piece, and he even painted over a lot of the AI generation. This idea that he shouldn't be viewed as an artist is insane, even with AI he still put in more effort and thought than a lot of artist I know.
Not everyone draws for fun some people are really good at it and AI can make the process faster for them to make Money because at the end of the day paying bills is all that matters.
@TeaTimeTable the problem is that by using AI you are stealing others work and then profiting off of it. That's theft. It's one thing to "pay the bills", it's another to use a program that doesn't hide the fact it uses other artists work to function and create the "art" you're going to trace and profit on. There's no defense for it
@@thebonderman8811 Then literally never make artwork using references again unless you pay for each and every single one of the influences and references you use. Do you understand how asinine that is? I'm beyond frustrated with this conversation over ai and artwork. I feel like this is another trend of hate when it could be an opportunity for proper discussion and growth for art, what it means and how it's consumed. Instead it has literally turned into a witchhunt, IRONICALLY making content creators and artists who participate in it money with disregard to the art community. What its going to do is make the barrier to entry harder for newer artists, alienates people who are genuine in trying to learn fundamentals and further increase anxiety for artists trying to get started and establish their form of expression. It blows my mind 'artists' don't see that. Arguments against ai centered around these companies using work without permission is a good one and should absolutely be addressed, but the way its being addressed and a hardline negative reaction to anything AI at all is radicalizing people and causing those who automatically reject any nuance in the conversation due to the push back will be motivated more to use it.
@@JJo1792 I echo your sentiment. The art community has swallowed false dichotomy of humanity vs. AI. The actual problem is artists vs. corporations. Personally, I feel the artistic community can be quite pharisaical and elitist. There is a bubble that many artists are trapped in, placing arbitrary and burdensome restrictions on what constitutes "true art" or a "real artist." In a way, generative AI is sort of divine retribution for the bullying, witch hunts, and toxicity that the art community has fomented.
Ai sucks, and I feel like using it in my art is a form of theft. Not from the ai, but from the artists that the ai originally stole from. I don’t like how it’s getting used regularly in artwork by some, it just feels like glorified theft.
@@aidenjonesart It really isn't 'just' that and as a content creator your oversimplification of the conversation is irresponsible imho. As a person you're obviously entitled to your own opinion and content, But don't bandwagon talking points. Anyone who properly understands AI and how the technology works can see that 1. Not every instance of AI image generation is straight up theft. 2. It can be used ethically especially by those in an environment or job who demands speed over quality of work and 3. If more people learned how AI works in the context of image generation, there could be better comprehension meaning more informed lobbying and demonstration to effect the changes that artists want to see with AI. Changes that are realistic considering AI isn't going anywhere and rejecting it outright without properly understanding how it works will cause people to be left behind.
i think the ethics of the datasets using stolen art should have been mentioned before the first point, actually. considering the theft is the more pressing issue.
This. Stop taking the fights to artists who use the technology being made available to them. The problem is with with the companies who aren't being ethical in the development of this technology. I want people to look specifically at certain companies and hold them accountable. Not blanket all instances of AI as 'theft' and stealing from artists because literally not all of them do that.
he... literally only used the images as reference and actively put in work to _draw_ it. he didn't just press a button and Voila. something about this argument smells fishy and _i_ don't even like ai.
This video was made before josh made his youtube video: Here is a new video going over the video he posted a few days ago and brreaking it down! ua-cam.com/video/Hx0Ok8Y0kDY/v-deo.html
tbh I've been caught up in this stand against ai stuff. And I still have a distaste for it even as a mainly digital artist. But it doesn't hold up feeling virtuous about IP and advocating for copyright protection if you've consumed stolen content or anything made unethically (which is almost everything). The problem with greedy corporations trying push unregulated ai is still an issue, but I've learned to stop taking up this role as some pure human anti ai martyr. It just another distraction that prevents me from just making art.
FUCKING WISH i could post this everywhere. Good on you for looking through the distractions and doing what you were doing. That's what it's about at the end of the day
Another one bites the dust. Honestly very disappointed that he would take this turn. The patreon lesson is especially wild. He wants people to pay him to learn how to type in search bar?!
@@aarantheartist it’s also disappointing to see some of the people defending him, saying: “oh it’s just his process why are you bullying him” like shut up😭 ai art is not ethical.
@@aidenjonesart That’s even sadder in some ways. There’s always the people who will die on the hill with their favourite creators no matter what they do. That’s all I can assume this is 🤷🏽♂️
@@aidenjonesart I see now you're just fishing for likes, yea? You simultaneously pretend you're taking nuanced approach while making passive aggressive commentary on him like he's washed. Stop looking for people to confirm your biases, that shit is lame
Wut? It is very stupid that people criticize someone who was at least learning to adapt to this new technology that is inevitable and will only continue to advance and improve, for every new technology there will always be people affected, it is adapt or DIE, and Josh was doing the right thing by learning to use AI to his advantage, in fact people who do not want technology and humanity to advance :/
Using AI as reference is almost the same as adding one of your favourite artists in the mood board. Even a lot of industry professionals are using this, but I will agree AI is a very touchy subject among artists
That's not true. A real artwork is based on decisions of the creator which you might deciver and understand. Ai art is just a statistical regurgitation without intent
@@overpope3510 And? You're still using it as a reference, sometimes 1 single element out of the mindless chaos may spark some ideas in your brain. No one's saying publishing full AI generated art is ethical, but how you collect references shouldn't be the concern of the viewers. For the longest time people have also gate kept tracing. Yet now a lot of people recommend tracing as a means of studying
@@wraeeee As an artist, I feel like a lot of the anti-ai sentiments nowadays are just people scared that they'll lose clients over it. It's now a boogeyman, almost worse than the holocaust, it's completely irrational to the point that saying you use AI for REFERENCES is enough to trigger people into this overly defensive same-point-propaganda-parroting mode, like, as an artist even before AI I've always used references, we all did, it was not considered stealing back then. As far as I'm concerned, AI is only theft if you're PROFITTING off of it, using it for references is the same thing as a concept artists photobashing images together, but the machine is doing it for you instead, it's LITERALLY the same exact ethical implication, but modern clout artists will swear by heart that it isn't.
@@enemote Exactly, you get my point. Using it as a reference isn't even a bad thing, but people are so emotional about the topic that even the slightest mention of AI is enough to trigger them.
Too touchy in my opinion. I have been LOOKING for anti ai and pro ai conversations and discussions. It's barely discussion and usually emotional, super anecdotal accounts from people who regurgitate the same talking points like its politics. It's incredibly frustrating as someone who is trying to understand the topic.
The fact that he uses an ugly artificial generated image as an "inspiration" drives me crazy. We make fun of the AI feeding on itself because it's running out of data and ergojosh (or any artist) feeding on AI is just pathetic. I wonder why all the most famous and skilled professional artist who made books, films, animations didn't need AI to make amazing works. Oh wait I actually know... They trained on real life and real references.
He still a digital illustrator, he still draws, we've lost nothing, adapt and accept ai came to stay no matter what we do, its ok is a tool not a replacement, use it well,
@@rkneegordon6316 are you taking all of those images, putting them into an ai software, to mash them together to create one image? Then yes. Using references is not stealing, although you should always credit the original photographer/artist you took inspiration from/referenced when posting the artwork. Or, if you can’t find the original creator, just provide the original image you referenced from. It’s that simple.
@@aidenjonesart so when AI does it, it’s’ stealing. But when I take “inspiration” of a hair style, that face, that body type, clothing, to make an original image, that’s not stealing? That logic makes no sense. If you make an inspiration board, you are stealing from other artists. AI just does it quicker.
@@rkneegordon6316i said if you credit the artists you take inspiration from, that is completely okay. AI does not credit or compensate the artists that it steals their work from. if you just have an inspiration board the you look at for inspiration that’s not stealing. again, as long as you credit the original creators of the images when you share the artwork, then that is fine
"using ai to take your art to the next level" doesn't make sense. What's the next level? Dehumanizing yourself and every other artist? Removing the soul out of art, making nothing but generic slop that makes no sense when you zoom into the "details"? Hell ai cant even make the illusion of details like people can with proper shape language, it never will. The next level really sounds like "i love stepping on my own foot" rather than anything else. Maybe one day these ai boot gobblers will see how wrong they are, but I doubt it.
Absolutely asinine comment. "dehumanizing yourself and every other artist" dude you know what's dehumanizing? Countries bombing civilians for the actions of a terrorist organization and calling it war. Measure your words. Look at the emotion in your messages because you're taking this weird philosophical stance and it's really not that deep.
If it's not traced, and you can't link an image to an earlier specific work, you can't say it's stolen. Anyone who says other is the sort of artist that goes balistic for "stolen" styles, poses and palettes. Styles cannot be copyrighted. AI doesn't stop humans from making the effort to express themselves organically. If someone wants forfeit the opportunity to learn how to draw organically for a machine, that should be their choice. The artist pushback against AI is about money, and absolutly nothing else. Just say it.
Thing which puzzles me is that AI is the artist not you and you are an art director or client. I want an AI assistant but it wouldn’t be thing that does the work but give me feedback. Also AI has stolen artwork without permission which is a big issue and the companies lied about randomly scrapping art
I've never took him seriously, and never saw him as an artist neither. Not hating on him, but couldn't figure out why he became "famous" when his drawings were so bad tbh. I remember when Sam reviewed one of his illustrations, speechless to know that he had like +200k subscribers with such a low quality scribbles at that time. But I also noticed 2 things, first; his voice is deep, cool and soothing, that helps you a lot when you talk to people and you earn a public smoothly, even better if you have a good speech,. Second; something changed gradually and it wasn't his skills, but his setup and tech. I realized that he just want to flex on all the cool sparkly gadgets and tech products he gets. In the end, if Josh became better at drawing, we know it's because he just painted over some AI generated image. I feel sorry for all the fans he had, all those who trusted on a path of learning & improving the craft genuinely.
@@aidenjonesart you hearthed the most toxic shit i ever heard you lot say! 'he was never an artist" WHO in fucks christ give you lot the idea your opinion matter so much? bloody bullies and crybabys, you effers just HATE people and pretend you are moraly on high ground and say shit like this ? HYPOCRITICAL
I never like to much Josh art he look like a bad version of loish. But this is not the point. I mean this dude looks like have a role is a artist and don't be a artist....after he statements I star to thinking what are behind all art that he made? Anyway...I thinking is weell that he understands that are alot tecjbrow that can support he's carrer in the use of AI and the tech corporations will accept him is a gatekeeper so he try to claime this place.
@@JJo1792 And you deduced that conclusion... How? I just like cool art, it has nothing to do with my moral or ethical code. I still follow Yuumei. Though I suppose sarcasm isn't obvious in writing.
what's the big deal ? if he's using ai images as reference, its same as if he was searchign for them on pinteres/google/wherever, they are mostly overflood with ai images anyway so maybe it is better he generates them to his own liking.
Man the "art community" on youtube nowadays is the most toxic hellhole to ever exist, people are straight up puritans now coming up with all these rules that they themselves never had to abide by. Check if every artist here has credited the things they've used for references before the AI subject was even brought up. None of them did, because it was obviously not needed.
Dude has every right to do his art his way. So tired of this parasocial relationship shit. All these sad Sallys mad about how other artists do their shit. Dude owes you nothing in regards to his process. He's being honest and showcasing his process. It's only morally wrong because it's a shortcut you don't like.
i don’t like it because using these ai generators steals other artists artwork to make images. i would be fine with it if these art generators don’t do that. sure, he can do whatever he wants but that doesn’t mean it’s right.hes trying to teach other artists to use the same process that he is now using. using ai won’t help you learn if you just trace it and put it into your art, even if it is ‘different’. it’s not morally wrong kelly’s because i don’t like it, it’s morally wrong because of the art stealing part.
@@aidenjonesart That’s bull and everyone knows it. It’s cope because all these artists are afraid of tech. They need to be paying attention to that man and try to learn something instead of being babies about it.
@@NightPhoenixPress did you not listen to anything i just said😭 everyone is mad because of how ai art is made, not the fact that he is using it. wdym by ‘afraid of tech’ i’m a digital artist too and i love all of the tools that are provided, because guess what: they don’t use other artists artwork without consent🤯. it’s that simple to understand why ai art is terrible
@@aidenjonesart They're still using the lie AI is stealing art. That lie is still pushed out of the fear of tech. And just like digital coloring, in the next 5 - 10 years, AI is going to be the norm.
@@NightPhoenixPress it is definetly not a lie. companies like meta, are openly saying that they may use all images in the app to help train their ai to make better images. there are so many artists on instagram who don’t consent that. also in my opinion, pure ai art will never overtake actual art. buyers and people will much more appreciate a piece that someone put months of time and effort into, rather than just a few minutes of ai generation. but ai art is still unethical, so that doesn’t mean just because you art an experienced artist that knows lots of skills, you should be allowed to use ai. he should just learn how to create the types of hair he wants on his own. he just needs to put in the work
Ergo is moving forward with the times instead of resisting change, I'm no artist but history says in the longterm Ergojosh wins. It's not as if ergo cant draw and is stealing art he's making it more efficient. Im sure leonardo da vinci would scoff at digital artists today, like how scribes scoffed at the printing press. I get AI feeling unauthentic but nobody knows where it'll take art in the future, since art has always been a reflection of our surroundings and tools at our disposal anyway.
Listen people, remember when streaming music was in its infancy and people acted like physical media was all that, well, the AI thing will replace a lotta artists! Just wait till they perfect it enough..... It sucks but i am bracing for the ultimate truth!
ai art will never replace actual art imo. even if it is going to be perfected to look amazing, that doesn’t matter. in the end, buyers will value work made by actual people and not soulless robots. art is about the effort and meaning. even if the ai can create amazing images, people won’t care
@@aidenjonesart Yh but the industry will become even MORE competitive making it harder for beginners to find their place. Not only that but elitism may take hold even more like "high society"/modern "art" where the "natural" artists are gon a crtique the work even heavier or people making excuses for laziness due to that making it more "human" Ai is a net negative. Just like Social Media is. Dont know why software engineers keep lying about "advancing" society when all they really care about is competing with their other anti social peers and stroking each others egos. Even if that means ultimately ruining life as we know it
@@aidenjonesart😮 you are completely mistaken bro no one cares about anything you just said they care about money how fast can I get the image how soon can I get the image and does the image work😮 if corporations and most people and entrepreneurs have to decide between giving you a couple of cents or just generating something on my own I'm going to go generate something on my own convince me otherwise😮 if you want to survive you better use the AI so you could have a huge catalog of things that you could have never made and are on a level that you could have never made maybe then people will give you money otherwise this is not going to work out for you man you're going to be drawing a picture for 15 hours while I have an automated software generating hundreds of thousands of pictures that look just as good as the one you're drawing or better😮
I can see why. His basic skills are not good. His art is into some fancy outcomes rather than good foundations. So that's why. Using AI can skip those hard work things which I think whatever you do, don't chase for the easy way. Using AI as a tool is very different from using AI to avoid those hard work. We are human we can't break genes. So careful about those easy ways. It's not good for human beings.
@@enemote I understand there are extremes and sides in every argument, but goddamn this anti-ai thing is blowing my mind. People don't critically think about shit when it comes to things on the internet.
@@JJo1792 Yeah, on the other side of the extreme anti-ai spectrum are the extremist ai-bros who seem to have an actual vendetta against artists. But yeh, everything nowadays has to be blown out of proportion and people love starting wars over trivial stuff. I guess it's got something to do with the current state of the world, everyone is way too eager to become hostile to each other.
That is not how it works. A computer down right uses that image and copies it to the T. Using reference merely guides your own artistic skill. It’s literally in the definition.
@@JoeyAbadeer That's exactly how it works, and ironically enough your description of how AI works is actually NOT how it works lol. I wish people were better informed about this topic.
😮 like why you people bicker about AI is unethical and blah blah blah I'm making AI stock trading apps to just make money😮 like people are profiting from this while you just complain😮 I promise you this won't turn out well for you you just going to complain and complain and complain and then eventually you're going to try and go get a job or sell your art and you'll wake up one day and realize no one wants it anymore cuz they can just get it from robots😮
@@gerdaleta I never mentioned AI stock trading apps in this video once😭 I’m talking about AI art generators because they use already created images that artists made, to generate their own images. These companies that use the ai art generators, make huge profits, and the original artists get nothing in return. That’s why AI art is unethical. Idk why you are talking about a completely different subject that doesn’t not relate to the video whatsoever.
I did comment on Josh's latest. But after I did, saying something about how his design processes "got ahead of his philosophy", I realized it's easy to glean what his philosophy might be from his older content: he's a nerd for tech stuff, so he wants an excuse to use it. That's why he has the elaborate gear and, for a while, reviewed it. And the AI stuff has that appeal to him, too: it's a gadget to tinker with. His illustrations take way more time than necessary because he is tinkering. That is, on its own, actually OK. Playing around with media is a thing artists do, digitally or not.
But if he said that, it would go against the image he's crafted of being a role model for good practices. That's why he says things about skill, trying to create a gatekept position for himself where it's okay for him to be a tech nerd who uses the gadgets thoughtlessly. I think he's in a tough spot now.
@@JH-pe3ro yea i totally get that. i feel like he is making it so much harder for himself by trying to prove a point that AI can be useful, by just dragging out his process by ‘tinkering’ as you say. it’s a lot to manage just for one drawing all at once
Hmm. That's actually an interesting take. I didn't connect the dots in the way you did. Thanks for your thoughts
SOOOO he can't use it cuz CUTL LIKE CAVE MAN that wanna witch HUNT but can't come up with ANY logical arguments so you just resume to use the most LOW IQ reason to take some one that DARE TO go against the ANTI-AI CULT !@!!! get off the hight horse aand your dumb moreal outcry cuz you can't for the love of god ACCEPT not every one thinks the same
HE IS ALLOWED to use this tool you on the other hand can cry me a river
I feel like he’s taking the “I’m right and you’re all wrong because I didn’t generate the references I just took them from someone who did so it’s okay” route with his statement on Instagram stories. Like what’s the point of using AI references if they look just like human art 😭 is it that hard to use man made art as reference? Smh I hope people don’t back up this behavior.
exactly! in his newest video which i watched all the way through, he is just saying how we act childish because we feel concerend about the theft aspect. He is just saying just because he knows what he's doing, just excuses all ethical concerens. i dont think ive seen one positive comment on that video so far😭😭
Only "artists" care about ai. Actual artist use every tool they can. Hating ai is just silly. I just asked ai to write me a grant proposal. It needed a lot of rewrites and I'll refine it over time. Scoff all you want, the rest of us have moved on.
@@dallassegno when your “tool” does all the work for you is it really a tool? Hint: absolutely not.
@@aidenjonesart Crazy because you need to look harder and I most certainly support his use of it I dont care about ethics to begin with if you have the skill to still draw certain aspects of your piece but then wanna photobash and take something form an AI image thats fine I dont care.
I think people have forgot about a crucial fact is that Josh is foremost a content creator and artist is second. It explains why he wants an excuse to use AI. It's exactly the reason they invented AI generated images in the first place, because it's fast and cheap, not because it's beautiful.
People who push AI are either for money or for fame. None of them are for art. Just don't give them what they want.
Yes, I feel like Josh is more into technology than art now, even though he does love and enjoy it. He loves tech and loves finding new and fun ways to play with it, as he is doing now by incorporating ai into his art work. I just feel weird because a few months ago he was so anti-ai and now he is all for it.
The sad thing is that he has an art course…
I still think that AI image generation technology came from the NFT era. They wanted image generated pictures that they can sell as NFTs, but when the hyped collapsed and exposed as a scam, they had to repurpose the technology.
@@solarydays I was confused at first when I started drawing and saw his setup. then others told me that I'm fine with 1 tablet.
Did anyone even watch the video? His use of AI is basically just making some base textures. He still drew and painted almost the entirety of the piece, and he even painted over a lot of the AI generation. This idea that he shouldn't be viewed as an artist is insane, even with AI he still put in more effort and thought than a lot of artist I know.
0:09 "was" 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀 bro cooked him with that one
whats the fun of drawing when all youre doing is putting a prompt into an ai generator and getting the exact image you wanted just to trace it
Not everyone draws for fun some people are really good at it and AI can make the process faster for them to make Money because at the end of the day paying bills is all that matters.
@TeaTimeTable the problem is that by using AI you are stealing others work and then profiting off of it. That's theft. It's one thing to "pay the bills", it's another to use a program that doesn't hide the fact it uses other artists work to function and create the "art" you're going to trace and profit on. There's no defense for it
@@thebonderman8811 Then literally never make artwork using references again unless you pay for each and every single one of the influences and references you use.
Do you understand how asinine that is? I'm beyond frustrated with this conversation over ai and artwork. I feel like this is another trend of hate when it could be an opportunity for proper discussion and growth for art, what it means and how it's consumed. Instead it has literally turned into a witchhunt, IRONICALLY making content creators and artists who participate in it money with disregard to the art community. What its going to do is make the barrier to entry harder for newer artists, alienates people who are genuine in trying to learn fundamentals and further increase anxiety for artists trying to get started and establish their form of expression. It blows my mind 'artists' don't see that.
Arguments against ai centered around these companies using work without permission is a good one and should absolutely be addressed, but the way its being addressed and a hardline negative reaction to anything AI at all is radicalizing people and causing those who automatically reject any nuance in the conversation due to the push back will be motivated more to use it.
@@JJo1792 I echo your sentiment. The art community has swallowed false dichotomy of humanity vs. AI. The actual problem is artists vs. corporations. Personally, I feel the artistic community can be quite pharisaical and elitist. There is a bubble that many artists are trapped in, placing arbitrary and burdensome restrictions on what constitutes "true art" or a "real artist." In a way, generative AI is sort of divine retribution for the bullying, witch hunts, and toxicity that the art community has fomented.
Ai sucks, and I feel like using it in my art is a form of theft. Not from the ai, but from the artists that the ai originally stole from. I don’t like how it’s getting used regularly in artwork by some, it just feels like glorified theft.
It really is just that. Glorified theft :(
I disagree but to each his own
@@aidenjonesart It really isn't 'just' that and as a content creator your oversimplification of the conversation is irresponsible imho. As a person you're obviously entitled to your own opinion and content, But don't bandwagon talking points. Anyone who properly understands AI and how the technology works can see that 1. Not every instance of AI image generation is straight up theft. 2. It can be used ethically especially by those in an environment or job who demands speed over quality of work and 3. If more people learned how AI works in the context of image generation, there could be better comprehension meaning more informed lobbying and demonstration to effect the changes that artists want to see with AI. Changes that are realistic considering AI isn't going anywhere and rejecting it outright without properly understanding how it works will cause people to be left behind.
I like your points made! Not completely bashing but still not dismissing the disrespect of his decision. good video :))
Yes! Thank you. I believe that he can still redeem himself in this situation, but at this point he seems pretty set on his AI tools
Ergojosh more like egojosh
i think the ethics of the datasets using stolen art should have been mentioned before the first point, actually. considering the theft is the more pressing issue.
This. Stop taking the fights to artists who use the technology being made available to them. The problem is with with the companies who aren't being ethical in the development of this technology. I want people to look specifically at certain companies and hold them accountable. Not blanket all instances of AI as 'theft' and stealing from artists because literally not all of them do that.
he... literally only used the images as reference and actively put in work to _draw_ it. he didn't just press a button and Voila.
something about this argument smells fishy and _i_ don't even like ai.
This video was made before josh made his youtube video: Here is a new video going over the video he posted a few days ago and brreaking it down!
ua-cam.com/video/Hx0Ok8Y0kDY/v-deo.html
tbh I've been caught up in this stand against ai stuff. And I still have a distaste for it even as a mainly digital artist. But it doesn't hold up feeling virtuous about IP and advocating for copyright protection if you've consumed stolen content or anything made unethically (which is almost everything). The problem with greedy corporations trying push unregulated ai is still an issue, but I've learned to stop taking up this role as some pure human anti ai martyr. It just another distraction that prevents me from just making art.
FUCKING WISH i could post this everywhere. Good on you for looking through the distractions and doing what you were doing. That's what it's about at the end of the day
Another one bites the dust. Honestly very disappointed that he would take this turn. The patreon lesson is especially wild. He wants people to pay him to learn how to type in search bar?!
@@aarantheartist it’s also disappointing to see some of the people defending him, saying: “oh it’s just his process why are you bullying him” like shut up😭 ai art is not ethical.
@@aidenjonesart That’s even sadder in some ways. There’s always the people who will die on the hill with their favourite creators no matter what they do. That’s all I can assume this is 🤷🏽♂️
@@aidenjonesart I see now you're just fishing for likes, yea? You simultaneously pretend you're taking nuanced approach while making passive aggressive commentary on him like he's washed. Stop looking for people to confirm your biases, that shit is lame
Wut? It is very stupid that people criticize someone who was at least learning to adapt to this new technology that is inevitable and will only continue to advance and improve, for every new technology there will always be people affected, it is adapt or DIE, and Josh was doing the right thing by learning to use AI to his advantage, in fact people who do not want technology and humanity to advance :/
Using AI as reference is almost the same as adding one of your favourite artists in the mood board. Even a lot of industry professionals are using this, but I will agree AI is a very touchy subject among artists
That's not true. A real artwork is based on decisions of the creator which you might deciver and understand. Ai art is just a statistical regurgitation without intent
@@overpope3510 And? You're still using it as a reference, sometimes 1 single element out of the mindless chaos may spark some ideas in your brain. No one's saying publishing full AI generated art is ethical, but how you collect references shouldn't be the concern of the viewers. For the longest time people have also gate kept tracing. Yet now a lot of people recommend tracing as a means of studying
@@wraeeee As an artist, I feel like a lot of the anti-ai sentiments nowadays are just people scared that they'll lose clients over it. It's now a boogeyman, almost worse than the holocaust, it's completely irrational to the point that saying you use AI for REFERENCES is enough to trigger people into this overly defensive same-point-propaganda-parroting mode, like, as an artist even before AI I've always used references, we all did, it was not considered stealing back then. As far as I'm concerned, AI is only theft if you're PROFITTING off of it, using it for references is the same thing as a concept artists photobashing images together, but the machine is doing it for you instead, it's LITERALLY the same exact ethical implication, but modern clout artists will swear by heart that it isn't.
@@enemote Exactly, you get my point. Using it as a reference isn't even a bad thing, but people are so emotional about the topic that even the slightest mention of AI is enough to trigger them.
Too touchy in my opinion. I have been LOOKING for anti ai and pro ai conversations and discussions. It's barely discussion and usually emotional, super anecdotal accounts from people who regurgitate the same talking points like its politics. It's incredibly frustrating as someone who is trying to understand the topic.
The fact that he uses an ugly artificial generated image as an "inspiration" drives me crazy. We make fun of the AI feeding on itself because it's running out of data and ergojosh (or any artist) feeding on AI is just pathetic. I wonder why all the most famous and skilled professional artist who made books, films, animations didn't need AI to make amazing works. Oh wait I actually know... They trained on real life and real references.
He still a digital illustrator, he still draws, we've lost nothing, adapt and accept ai came to stay no matter what we do, its ok is a tool not a replacement, use it well,
So, when I make an “inspiration board” I should get every artist permission, to incorporate their work into mine, or it’s stealing?
@@rkneegordon6316 are you taking all of those images, putting them into an ai software, to mash them together to create one image? Then yes. Using references is not stealing, although you should always credit the original photographer/artist you took inspiration from/referenced when posting the artwork. Or, if you can’t find the original creator, just provide the original image you referenced from. It’s that simple.
@@aidenjonesart so when AI does it, it’s’ stealing. But when I take “inspiration” of a hair style, that face, that body type, clothing, to make an original image, that’s not stealing? That logic makes no sense. If you make an inspiration board, you are stealing from other artists. AI just does it quicker.
@@rkneegordon6316i said if you credit the artists you take inspiration from, that is completely okay. AI does not credit or compensate the artists that it steals their work from. if you just have an inspiration board the you look at for inspiration that’s not stealing. again, as long as you credit the original creators of the images when you share the artwork, then that is fine
"using ai to take your art to the next level" doesn't make sense. What's the next level? Dehumanizing yourself and every other artist? Removing the soul out of art, making nothing but generic slop that makes no sense when you zoom into the "details"? Hell ai cant even make the illusion of details like people can with proper shape language, it never will.
The next level really sounds like "i love stepping on my own foot" rather than anything else.
Maybe one day these ai boot gobblers will see how wrong they are, but I doubt it.
Absolutely asinine comment. "dehumanizing yourself and every other artist" dude you know what's dehumanizing? Countries bombing civilians for the actions of a terrorist organization and calling it war. Measure your words. Look at the emotion in your messages because you're taking this weird philosophical stance and it's really not that deep.
If it's not traced, and you can't link an image to an earlier specific work, you can't say it's stolen.
Anyone who says other is the sort of artist that goes balistic for "stolen" styles, poses and palettes. Styles cannot be copyrighted.
AI doesn't stop humans from making the effort to express themselves organically.
If someone wants forfeit the opportunity to learn how to draw organically for a machine, that should be their choice.
The artist pushback against AI is about money, and absolutly nothing else. Just say it.
Good video and nice works
Thank you so much!
@@aidenjonesart You're welcome
Thing which puzzles me is that AI is the artist not you and you are an art director or client. I want an AI assistant but it wouldn’t be thing that does the work but give me feedback.
Also AI has stolen artwork without permission which is a big issue and the companies lied about randomly scrapping art
I've never took him seriously, and never saw him as an artist neither. Not hating on him, but couldn't figure out why he became "famous" when his drawings were so bad tbh. I remember when Sam reviewed one of his illustrations, speechless to know that he had like +200k subscribers with such a low quality scribbles at that time. But I also noticed 2 things, first; his voice is deep, cool and soothing, that helps you a lot when you talk to people and you earn a public smoothly, even better if you have a good speech,. Second; something changed gradually and it wasn't his skills, but his setup and tech. I realized that he just want to flex on all the cool sparkly gadgets and tech products he gets. In the end, if Josh became better at drawing, we know it's because he just painted over some AI generated image. I feel sorry for all the fans he had, all those who trusted on a path of learning & improving the craft genuinely.
i remember that Sam video😭 i was shocked
@@aidenjonesart you hearthed the most toxic shit i ever heard you lot say! 'he was never an artist" WHO in fucks christ give you lot the idea your opinion matter so much? bloody bullies and crybabys, you effers just HATE people and pretend you are moraly on high ground and say shit like this ? HYPOCRITICAL
What was the video called?
I love the seething ngl
I will never use a.i for my art never!
I never like to much Josh art he look like a bad version of loish. But this is not the point. I mean this dude looks like have a role is a artist and don't be a artist....after he statements I star to thinking what are behind all art that he made? Anyway...I thinking is weell that he understands that are alot tecjbrow that can support he's carrer in the use of AI and the tech corporations will accept him is a gatekeeper so he try to claime this place.
Clark Patricia Thomas William Moore Thomas
Noy just him, Yuumei has started using AI as well. 😅
If WLOP goes down this path i am done following fellow artists. 😢
Your first mistake was 'following fellow artists' for aligning with your moral/ethical code when it comes to art.
@@JJo1792 And you deduced that conclusion... How?
I just like cool art, it has nothing to do with my moral or ethical code.
I still follow Yuumei.
Though I suppose sarcasm isn't obvious in writing.
if you were being sarcastic, then I didn't pick that up and apologize for misunderstanding
what's the big deal ? if he's using ai images as reference, its same as if he was searchign for them on pinteres/google/wherever, they are mostly overflood with ai images anyway so maybe it is better he generates them to his own liking.
Man the "art community" on youtube nowadays is the most toxic hellhole to ever exist, people are straight up puritans now coming up with all these rules that they themselves never had to abide by. Check if every artist here has credited the things they've used for references before the AI subject was even brought up. None of them did, because it was obviously not needed.
Dude has every right to do his art his way. So tired of this parasocial relationship shit. All these sad Sallys mad about how other artists do their shit. Dude owes you nothing in regards to his process. He's being honest and showcasing his process. It's only morally wrong because it's a shortcut you don't like.
i don’t like it because using these ai generators steals other artists artwork to make images. i would be fine with it if these art generators don’t do that. sure, he can do whatever he wants but that doesn’t mean it’s right.hes trying to teach other artists to use the same process that he is now using. using ai won’t help you learn if you just trace it and put it into your art, even if it is ‘different’. it’s not morally wrong kelly’s because i don’t like it, it’s morally wrong because of the art stealing part.
@@aidenjonesart That’s bull and everyone knows it. It’s cope because all these artists are afraid of tech. They need to be paying attention to that man and try to learn something instead of being babies about it.
@@NightPhoenixPress did you not listen to anything i just said😭 everyone is mad because of how ai art is made, not the fact that he is using it. wdym by ‘afraid of tech’ i’m a digital artist too and i love all of the tools that are provided, because guess what: they don’t use other artists artwork without consent🤯. it’s that simple to understand why ai art is terrible
@@aidenjonesart They're still using the lie AI is stealing art. That lie is still pushed out of the fear of tech. And just like digital coloring, in the next 5 - 10 years, AI is going to be the norm.
@@NightPhoenixPress it is definetly not a lie. companies like meta, are openly saying that they may use all images in the app to help train their ai to make better images. there are so many artists on instagram who don’t consent that. also in my opinion, pure ai art will never overtake actual art. buyers and people will much more appreciate a piece that someone put months of time and effort into, rather than just a few minutes of ai generation. but ai art is still unethical, so that doesn’t mean just because you art an experienced artist that knows lots of skills, you should be allowed to use ai. he should just learn how to create the types of hair he wants on his own. he just needs to put in the work
Ergo is moving forward with the times instead of resisting change, I'm no artist but history says in the longterm Ergojosh wins. It's not as if ergo cant draw and is stealing art he's making it more efficient.
Im sure leonardo da vinci would scoff at digital artists today, like how scribes scoffed at the printing press. I get AI feeling unauthentic but nobody knows where it'll take art in the future, since art has always been a reflection of our surroundings and tools at our disposal anyway.
10 hours and 63 views? Going places. . . .
Now 600 views😧
Listen people, remember when streaming music was in its infancy and people acted like physical media was all that, well, the AI thing will replace a lotta artists! Just wait till they perfect it enough.....
It sucks but i am bracing for the ultimate truth!
ai art will never replace actual art imo. even if it is going to be perfected to look amazing, that doesn’t matter. in the end, buyers will value work made by actual people and not soulless robots. art is about the effort and meaning. even if the ai can create amazing images, people won’t care
@@aidenjonesart Yh but the industry will become even MORE competitive making it harder for beginners to find their place.
Not only that but elitism may take hold even more like "high society"/modern "art" where the "natural" artists are gon a crtique the work even heavier or people making excuses for laziness due to that making it more "human"
Ai is a net negative. Just like Social Media is. Dont know why software engineers keep lying about "advancing" society when all they really care about is competing with their other anti social peers and stroking each others egos. Even if that means ultimately ruining life as we know it
When it's perfected it still won't be solid without a human.
@@NightPhoenixPress it will be..not that i support AI but i see a future with it in the picture.
@@aidenjonesart😮 you are completely mistaken bro no one cares about anything you just said they care about money how fast can I get the image how soon can I get the image and does the image work😮 if corporations and most people and entrepreneurs have to decide between giving you a couple of cents or just generating something on my own I'm going to go generate something on my own convince me otherwise😮 if you want to survive you better use the AI so you could have a huge catalog of things that you could have never made and are on a level that you could have never made maybe then people will give you money otherwise this is not going to work out for you man you're going to be drawing a picture for 15 hours while I have an automated software generating hundreds of thousands of pictures that look just as good as the one you're drawing or better😮
I can see why. His basic skills are not good. His art is into some fancy outcomes rather than good foundations. So that's why. Using AI can skip those hard work things which I think whatever you do, don't chase for the easy way. Using AI as a tool is very different from using AI to avoid those hard work. We are human we can't break genes. So careful about those easy ways. It's not good for human beings.
U can use ai for reference, yall being stupid at this point
Exactly man, people now acting like concept artists weren't creating photobashed images for reference before, it's driving me insane 😭
@@enemote I understand there are extremes and sides in every argument, but goddamn this anti-ai thing is blowing my mind. People don't critically think about shit when it comes to things on the internet.
@@JJo1792 Yeah, on the other side of the extreme anti-ai spectrum are the extremist ai-bros who seem to have an actual vendetta against artists.
But yeh, everything nowadays has to be blown out of proportion and people love starting wars over trivial stuff. I guess it's got something to do with the current state of the world, everyone is way too eager to become hostile to each other.
But you use internet reference from internet ? You are also stealing people's ideas.
That is not how it works. A computer down right uses that image and copies it to the T. Using reference merely guides your own artistic skill. It’s literally in the definition.
@@JoeyAbadeer That's exactly how it works, and ironically enough your description of how AI works is actually NOT how it works lol.
I wish people were better informed about this topic.
6 hours and 36 views? Fell off😰
kinda hoping this video picks up a bit😭 just gotta give it time
😮 like why you people bicker about AI is unethical and blah blah blah I'm making AI stock trading apps to just make money😮 like people are profiting from this while you just complain😮 I promise you this won't turn out well for you you just going to complain and complain and complain and then eventually you're going to try and go get a job or sell your art and you'll wake up one day and realize no one wants it anymore cuz they can just get it from robots😮
@@gerdaleta I never mentioned AI stock trading apps in this video once😭 I’m talking about AI art generators because they use already created images that artists made, to generate their own images. These companies that use the ai art generators, make huge profits, and the original artists get nothing in return. That’s why AI art is unethical. Idk why you are talking about a completely different subject that doesn’t not relate to the video whatsoever.
Bullies, art community is just a bunch of single minded bullies
Synthography (Ai Art) is not stealing. It’s fair use. Which…by definition…is not stealing.
@@BrianReplies ai art generators literally use human made artworks to generate their images. so yea, it is stealing
@@aidenjonesart😮 even if it is no one cares no one cares no one cares😮
@@gerdaleta literally thousands of artists care😭 also why do you keep typing the ‘😮’ emoji…
@@aidenjonesart You use human made artworks to generate your images, are you stealing?
ai makes traditional art better
ai also steals other artists artwork without consent
@@aidenjonesart😮 we don't care
@@gerdaleta You're gonna care when someone shows up at one of your ai art shows and sabotages it.
@@markcooperartcomofficial That's not even fucking how it works....jesus christ man you guys are literally proving that you bandwagon hate.
Hopefully beginner artists wouldn't be too reliant on AI, or there will be a generation of lazy artists.