It's always nice to see two people walking away from a good time, happy. Especially when we're suppose to like both characters. I feel like so many other shows would have made it one sided but they made it even, which makes it even easier to like them both, there is no competition, they're on the same side.
This was actually pretty comic book accurate Daredevil. He's brooding and serious sure...but he does quip a lot and is a funny guy too. Netflix took it really dark because everyone always thinks that if you go gritty and realistic its more believable...but he does have fun too. I was very happy with this episode...so stoked for his new show and GLAD Charlie is back!
The whole Female Lawyer of the Year award was set up to look like a beauty pageant. It was supposed to be pandering/participation as corporate woke-ism. The whole episode was great, in my opinion. The inclusion of Matt/Daredevil was done well. I agree with Jen that he was written in a way to suit this show. And also, I thought he was more lighthearted and open because She-Hulk/Jen was seen as his equal in law and heroism.
I wouldn't consider that wokeism. I don't understand why female lawyers need to be differentiated from male lawyers. They do the exact same job, there's no huge difference like there is in sports, so why make the difference here? I think it was a good scene, not the regular feminist pandering
@@kevinh9110 elaborate then, people love throwing "Woke" around without elaborating. And if they do it's usually "Women bad" minorities bad" types of arguments. 💀
I just loved that they respected the Netflix series by throwing in the visual and music references. It felt very reapectful while still having him fit the new tone of this show
Also people who are "displeased" should remember that his character's tone is set to match the tone of this show and does not mean he'll be as goofy in his own show or a different one that has a more serious tone.
@@Seraphilms it also had clear visual references in his hallway fight scene. They even made the lighting in such a way to hide the new color sceme in the hallway fight. It was a love letter to DD netflix fans imo
I've enjoyed the whole show for the most part but this was definitely the best episode yet. They kept Matt consistent with his previous character while altering him enough to fit the theme of this show. Very excited for the finale.
I agree with Jen on how Daredevil was written to fit the tone of this show. Doesn't mean that's how he will be in his show or movies. Just like She Hulk will adapt to the story they are apart of after this show ends.
@@TheDrDrizzy I 100% agree, Daredevil should be depressed and broody 100% of the time ,he's not allowed to smile and make jokes at all. 😡😡😡 EDIT: (Guys, this comment is meant to be a jab at people who don't think Daredevil is allowed to make jokes and smile 🤣)
That ending does hit pretty hard. It makes sense that this would be one of the few things that could set Jen off into Savage She-Hulk and fulfill Bruce's warning of it only takes one moment for people to see you as a monster. Since episode one we (most anyway there were a lot of people bitching she didn't start as SSH but whatever) knew this would happen towards the end of the series and I can't wait to see what happens in the finale.
Yes Holden, the point of the award that is it WAS degrading. First of all a female lawyer award and not just a lawyer award. The fact that it's basically a participation trophy and all the woman won. Then they essentially treat it as a beauty pagent. So many people are brainwashed and think that stuff wasn't an intentional call out.
I think that's what so many people got wrong about the show in the beginning. I see it as a comical social commentary from a woman's point of view. Not to be taken too seriously while at the same time highlighting serious topics. For example all the "douchebags" are in the show, not because "ALL MEN are douchebags", but because they bring a lot of exaggerated fun to the show while still portraying actual real life people.
This iteration of Matt Murdock is faithful to the comics. DD got around. He was not a monk. Jen Walters is also faithful to the comics. She Hulk has a healthy sex life in the comics too. She got kicked out of the Avengers mansion for partying too much. Fun fact, the other lawyers on the stage are actual lawyers besides Mallory.
i think holden is right about the "female lawyer of the year" another lawyer that works in her same law firm also got the award. thats why i think she hulk looked shocked in that moment because she thought she was the sole winner. when it turns out they gave like six people the "female lawyer of the year".
that scene was compleetly a woke hollywood moment,laywer of the year cant be more then 1,the way you do that scene is to present the top 4 laywers and just to piss no1 of just make it 2 female lawyers and 2 men. and honestly the mistakes jen makes in her court cases there is no way she is among the top laywers.
@@Marcustheseer exactly it cant be more than one thats why they all look so insulted lol Its not a "woke" moment where its a good thing for all these women, its fuckin humiliating and theyre being patronized
@@Marcustheseer The show was making fun of participation trophys... LMFAO how is it a "Woke Hollywood Moment" some of y'all need to take a media Literacy Class. 😂😫
@@Marcustheseer lol woke hollywood? That scene was making fun of "woke hollywood" but I wouldn't expect someone to use that phrase unironically to understand what they were doing.
Loved the Carrie parallel at the end. And we got "red" Hulk (the way they filmed the last sequence, with the alarms blaring and everything glowing red).
That was a walk of pride, not shame =P Our man hooked up with Jen, to a VERY satisfying conclusion on both sides, no shame in two adults enjoying one another's company. And they had incredible chemistry, though everyone so far has worked off of Tatiana really well which is a testament to her ease to work with as an actor. Best episode so far, by miles. Not just because our best boy was in it (a character we have a long loving history with by now so rightfully so we're celebrating him) but because of how well it was handled, it wasn't one making the other look bad, it was a mutually beneficial episode. Daredevil helped raise She-Hulk, without anyone needing to put anyone down.
They are making Daredevil more comics accurate. In the comics he is very acrobatic. He even uses the cable that comes out of his billy clubs to swing around the city. I've been listening to the Marvel Wastelanders Podcast and She Hulk makes a voice appearance.
I think the word to describe the awards ceremony at the end is "patronizing" not "pandering." Pandering is being given something you want even if it's not earned. Patronizing is when something seemingly nice is being done but its clearly being done in a condescending way by someone who feels superior to you. My impression of this scene was the legal association must have only ever given the lawyer of the year award to men, got criticized for it, decided to create a female lawyer award, and gave it to a whole bunch of women in the cringiest ceremony ever.
Yeah, I think this is worth iterating because Holden especially seems to flag things as "pandering" that aren't pandering at all (whether it's because it's a buzzword or what, I don't know), but are other things that are worth discussion. The way the old white dude was presenting the award was also low-key demeaning as well, or could at least be read that way, since he's popping off with dated jokes.
I wonder if that scene is a kind of rorschach test. If you look at it and think, "if everyone who wins the lawyer of the year is a man, that's because the better lawyers all happen to be men, but, if it'll make them happy, we'll give the women their own female lawyer of the year award," then you're going to see it as pandering. On the other hand, if you agree with Mallory Book that women have to be twice as good to get half the credit and, even then, they have to put up with demeaning questions like, "what's it like to be a female lawyer," then you're going to see it as patronizing.
@@davidranderson1 yeah that's a good way to put it. I think the series as a whole is sort of like that - so many folks are like "who's the real villain," but it's like, the real villain is right in front of you the whole time. It's Jen, and her as a metaphor for women in the professional world and in general, against the expectations of the people around her, particularly men in male-dominated arenas like Reddit and internet fandoms who hate her for simply existing. People who don't see that and are chasing big bads, regardless of who's ultimately pulling the strings of the Intelligencia and who HulkKing is, are missing the forest for the trees entirely and I think that's another huge Rorschach test, to borrow your phrase. And to your point, Mallory's definitely meant to be like a jab at the establishment/patriarchy there, where she's using the same jokes that the presenter used but she's not really laughing or finding it funny because as others have said, they degraded the award and the nominees by turning it into a pageant and parading the women as "all winners" and "wow look at these women we have working for us" instead of actually recognizing their achievements. They don't really care what it's like being a woman in that field, and they don't understand how or why what they're doing is gross and insensitive - it might not be as malicious as what the Intelligencia are doing, but it's exhausting to have to deal with on a daily basis.
the hallway fight is obvs a callback to the original show. thought it was cool in that scene that they went with a blue light/glow rather than red which the netflix show often used. so good! i got goosebumps when he walked into the courtroom
The Gold suit is the original where Matt fashioned it from his Dads costume. So the suit itself might not be as cool as the red one but the gold has more sentimental value for fans.
DD Netflix is mostly based on Frank Miller's run, but DD isn't always taking on a dark tone, there're moments of lightness and some even borderline goofy. Also, She-Hulk and DD are.. uhh VERY popular with those of their opposite sex and this meet up was inevitable!
I absolutely loved this episode. It was great seeing Matt in a happier place in his life where he can be more jovial. Don't get me wrong, I love the Netflix adaptation of Daredevil, and I'm sure 'Daredevil: Born Again' will be darker, but it was nice change of pace (for at least one episode) to see him act in a way that was slightly different, but still felt consistent to the Netflix version of the character. EDIT: After listening to your post-episode discussion, I totally understand your reservations Holden regarding the new Daredevil show; however, I think it is important to remember a few key things. One, 'Daredevil: Born Again' is going to be 18 episodes thereby making it the longest season of any Marvel Disney+ show by far. I don't believe that the writers will gloss over the important aspects of Matt Murdock's life. Also, I know you guys haven't seen it yet, but Marvel Studios just released a Halloween special called 'Werewolf by Night' that was definitely the most violent thing they've produced thus far. While it wasn't as violent as the Daredevil Netflix show, it shows that they are willing to delve into doing darker material, something I think will carry over to the new Daredevil show. I also think that Jen hit the nail on the head in saying that Daredevil in this episode was used in a way that fit the show that he was currently in. Comics do that all the time. For example, if Wolverine shows up in a Ms. Marvel comic, he's not going to be as dark and brooding as if he was in his own comic. It's not an easy thing to do as you still have to keep the core of who the character is there, but when writers do it successfully, you can get a great team-up or crossover story. In the case of this episode of She-Hulk, I think the writer (I'm blanking on their name; forgive me) did an excellent job of keeping the spirit of who Daredevil is without making him a joke. Like, I believed that this was the same Matt Murdock from the Netflix show (still not sure if the show is canon though), just at a time in his life where things were going a lot better for him. Anyways, these are just my thoughts, but I really don't think we should be too worried regarding the new show that comes out in 2024. I think it'll be very good.
he had a good little bit of time hopping from one catastraphe to another in the netflix show. of course they aren't going to show to many times where he is happy go lucky. just watch the bar scenes. Foggy mentions his ability to hookup with attractive women atleast once, in reference to elektra. I don't think the celibacy thing was his bag on the netflix show either, just assumed since he was hardcore on not killing because catholic/he believes it to be wrong and condemning someone for a single action.
I think it's been a while since Daredevil has been through some tough times and it's good to see him laid back a little. He seems more experienced and confident in his superhero persona. I think that with time passing he could have healed and I look forward to a slightly lighter tone as long as it's not too jokey. I'm pretty sure that them using daredevils theme from the Netflix show is confirmation that it is the same Daredevil.
Matt did say to Jen that Luke did make multiple suits for him. Regarding Matt/Daredevil's character in this show is true to comic book character being comedic and flirty. The gold and red suit pays homage to the yellow and red suit he had in the comics. Oh and in the comics Matt and Jen did hook-up.
What Jen said about acknowledging different Female Lawyers from different regions or whatever criteria, at an Awards Ceremony they would call them up individually with that criteria stated. IE- “For Female Lawyer of The Year from ____ County is _____” But in the show they were all called up and just being handed awards without any further clarification. So I have to agree that it was just a participation type trophy.
I think you’re spot on with the female lawyer of the year award part Holden. It was intentional I feel to undercut her moment right before the real punch in the gut later.
You guys should definitely check out Werewolf by Night I think it’s something different and enjoyable to watch especially during the Halloween season it’s very dark short film.
Holden, your read of "Female Lawyer of the Year" was the show's observation, too. These kinds of participation awards exist, often specifically for women and people of color, and it's an awkward thing to be given one because it absolutely is pandering... but also that's often the only kind of special recognition you can get in your field. And there's no easy answer here because it's either hollow tokenism or nothing at all. In practice (and in the show) most people are just rolling with it and enjoy the chance to dress up and feel appreciated, however shallow the professional side of it is. Jen's table is full of people who love and support her and she was taking the opportunity to publicly thank them, and that's all that really matters if the episode had ended there: a message about the people who really matter, not some dumb award. (And of course, the real purpose of this scene was to set up the conflict and humiliation at the end, but that's plot stuff.)
Like Jen said, Moon Knight had dark tones, they brought Deadpool onto Disney+. I think they won't change Daredevil and if they do it won't be much of a change.
Also, there has been three seasons of what holden described "Matt brooding about not killing people, his religion vs being a vigilante being intense and in love" does that need to keep being the focal point after three seasons? Also the one night stand stuff is absolutely not out of character for netflixs Matt. Obviously a lot of his "nights" are actually him being daredevil and not having one night stands like foggy thinks. But foggy obviously thinks that because there is a precedent for it.
I think the tone works for Matt. There are comicbook runs where he is more of a carefree, swashbuckling hero and this perfectly captured that. I hope his show has a middle ground between this and the Netflix show. I don’t feel like I need the Netflix show again.
I agree with Holden that the point of the award was just to be inclusive instead of actually giving their lawyers credit, I also agree with Jen that there's a big that daredevil will still be more serious compared to other marvel properties. Marvel would be shooting their own arm if they don't realize that that's what people loved with the netflix series.
I mean yea, but that was kind of the whole point, that the entire event was incredibly patronizing. The fact that it was a "Female Lawyer of the Year" award is already patronizing, and then the fact that they ended up giving it out like a participation trophy makes it even worse. On top of that they are expected to grin and bear it, and act grateful. It's not like the Intelligencia thing squashed her big moment, it was another embarrassment heaped on top of a string of smaller embarrassments.
I loved this episode and Matt’s appearance. And for Matt and Daredevil being different in this than his Netflix adaptation it’s not a huge change if you think about it. With every other person who gets into a dangerous situation they’re human, vulnerable, and can easily be hurt in the situation. Like Electra, deadly fighter, trained, but still human and ended up dying. Not to mention Karen or Foggy being always in trouble he always had to make sure they were safe first. With Jen he doesn’t have to worry about that with her power set and because of her public persona already knew who he was messing with during that parking lot fight. And he didn’t have to worry about telling her not to go on a killing spree or hurt people like he did with the punisher. And for the casual hook up at the end with Jen, foggy himself said he would go home with beautiful woman all the time “He’s always having beautiful woman touch his face…. Come to think of it he always seems to know which ones are pretty before they touch him…”. So I don’t think it’s too outside his character, we just never saw it on screen before. We’re there things thrown in to make it work with the show that we’re outside the Daredevil norm sure, the walk of shame seems to be the biggest but with the tone of the show it works. That’s just my two cents worth, can’t wait to see where the finale takes us and where the daredevil born again will go.
I mean you can just see in the daredevil netflix show that he has pulled Claire the night nurse, Karen, he been already had Electra wanting him and she was consistently throwing herself on to him every chance she had.
The scene at the end where she’s destroying things and people are running and screaming is a callback to the line Bruce was talking about where he warned her about being seen as a monster and how hard it is to shake that once it happens…
I think the reason Matt and Jennifer get along is because they are both lawyers, both try to do good and are both superheroes. He probably see's a lot of him in her and realizes he doesn't have to pretend to be someone he is not. for me they should have ended the episode at Matt doing the walk of shame/ Stride of pride. The end of the episode should have been an episode itself and build up to the last episode better.
She Hulk isn't really a superhero though. Considering all the assaults and property damage she causes, she's a lot closer to supervillain than superhero.
@@grimscar She Hulk's no supervillain. She's more like a very inexperienced superhero with super powers. Also, while she can control those powers, Jen doesn't have a good grasp of when to use or not use them. Hence, the property damage.
i like how DD moves with proper CG budgetting lol, like in the comics he's literally the only person to have agility and balance on par with spiderman, a fucking blind man is as agile as spiderman, they obivously were limited in the netflix show with what they could show and do (like in jessica jones, the super awkward super jump shots) so it's going to be awesome to see him fighting some big bad's not just goons, cause while he is street level, everyone including the avengers know he's not someone to underestimate
I have to agree with Holden on the award debate. I see what Jen is thinking but what she's missing is that one of the other award recipients is in She Hulks division at the same law firm.
I think everyone underestimates Disney+ and the MCU. They’ve obviously built the pieces to attribute those elements from the Netflix show to the new Born Again show.
Also in here he made it clear that he's been doing this for a long time, so matt could had gone to a point where he relaxed more and a little more loose, and since this is the she hulk show he got a little more in to the theme of the show
I, too, hope that Matt goes back to his red and black suit soon (it's so iconic), but it is sweet that he's fighting crime wearing his Dad's colors. It demonstrates the more positive place he's in after Season Three of 'Daredevil'.
I know you haven't showed Jen season 3 of Daredevil yet(or at least didn't react to it if you did) but with where season 3 ends it makes sense for Matt to be more laid back and open. It also matches the tone of She-Hulk but who knows, maybe Echo and Daredevil Born Again will have a darker tone with Kingpin being back and causing problems for them.
Everything that was shown about Matt in this episode fits with how he is, or has been, in the comics. He *IS* quippy and flirty and acrobatic. Wolverine once called Daredevil "the biggest Himbo in NYC," as Matt is no stranger to one night stands. I saw an article a few days ago titled "Matt Murdock's 15 best love interests." Fifteen BEST. It was Frank Miller that really cranked up the brooding and edginess of Daredevil in the '80s, but even then he could crack wise with the best of them, it just tended to be a little darker. His interactions with Spider-Man are great; they've even covered for each other a few times. What I'm getting at is that while I fully expect that the Disney+ version will by necessity be somewhat lighter in tone than the Netflix version, I think it will still be on the grittier side. Fisk may not take someone's head off with a car door, but I trust that Charlie will only let it go so far towards the lighter side. His next appearance will be in Echo, and from what I've heard he may be something of a co-feature in that show. It would make sense, given that Alaqua Cox had never acted before appearing in Hawkeye. She did a great job, but she didn't have to carry an entire show. It's sensible to have Charlie around to help. Plus, Echo as a character was introduced in Daredevil comics in 1999, and nowhere else until 2005 in New Avengers. She didn't get her own comic run until 2021. The point is that she's very closely tied to Daredevil, and I think her series will give us a better indication of how gritty the Daredevil series will be.
Its kind of weird, but I’ve grown to love this version of Matt Murdock so much that I felt happy he finally seems happy and enjoying himself, even though it’s not really the same character.
I could argue it is the same character, after the ending of season 3, matt would be way happier, he went through his life crises and came out stronger, and makes sense he changed his suit colors too, after season 3. marvels website and the writer said its the same matt we came to know and love.
@@RenegadeSpider2 Ok, maybe. I was just going off of what I’ve read of Charlie Cox’s supposed comments. I hope it’s the same character, and I approve of lightening him up as long as they don’t clownify him like they did with Thor or Drax.
@@brianbsoltis I agree. To be fair Charlie cox also said in that same interview that he hasn’t seen a script yet. He was just guessing like anyone else
Fridging is when an insignificant character, usually female, is sacrificed for the hero to pursue a cause or vengeance. A Green Lantern's (don't remember which one) girlfriend was murdered and put into a fridge. Other examples would be Spider-Man's uncle Ben, the girlfriend in American Assassin, or debatably Vanessa in Deadpool 2.
I may be completely wrong, but I felt the ending was kind of showing there is a "hulk side" to Jen not just Jen as She-Hulk, similar to how she wasn't fully control the first time she transformed. The pure rage, disgust, embarassment finally forced it out. Again I may have missed a mark there though.
I remember watching the first episode and cringing at She-Hulk’s monologue to Hulk about anger and whatever. Seeing this episode, it all makes sense now. Her character is supposed to be impatient as well as overconfident with her beliefs and in her strength as a woman living in modern times. And so Hulk’s words turns out to be true. She skipped the training and it only took one moment to set her off fully and make her look like a monster
Don't worry guys, they said that Daredevil only is like this for this show because that is the format. Feige said he will be more serious in Echo, & his own series. Jenn is absolutely right according to Feige's interviews. So don't worry.
They were 100% going for the "everybody wins" with the female lawyer of the year. Why would Jen even be nominated for that when she hasn't won a single case for the whole series
The episode circles back to the first episode, "once they see you as a monster ...", which seems to be the Intelligencia's plan, strike at She-Hulk's public opinion.
Holden is right on his take about the lawyers. Mallory was also selected from the same law firm, so it's not a regional or city award. It was just a participation award. I didn't think it made any sense for Mallory to also get the award and not tell anyone in her office, but what do I know?
The people whining about Daredevil making jokes or She-Hulk hooking up with people never read the source material. Its weird to whine about stuff you know nothing about. Il go Cry about quantum physics on another channel...
While I loved him in She-Hulk I'm sure he'll be closer to his darker roots in his own disney plus show or if he were to make an appearance in an other more serious show.
Not everybody read the comics and it's known for being inconsistent means different versions written by different people and Netflix is the one Made this character mainstream and well known throughout the globe so it makes sense that they don't want him to be light-hearted I guess Since Disney Marvel is known for that type of writing.
This version of Daredevil is more Comics accurate in Personality, attitude, and tone than the Netflix version. Keep in mind that the person in charge of the Netflix shows and the former ABC Marvel shows were ran by someone who had experience with action shows, but NO experience or knowledge about Marvel characters, so they were re-invented for a new audience that they may have felt would reach a wider demographic. This is the conundrum of live action adaptaions of historically popular characters.... decades of fans who number in the billions that generate interest in a live adaptation, then are subjected to seeing a character that showrunners feel is close enough to what they were expecting without alienating the core base and in turn entice those who have never read a comic to engage.
Daredevil naturally wanted to go dark but She-Hulk pulled him into her lightness/humor. Listen to his music cues. Just like the comics, characters will adapt based on whose comic they’re in. His show will be just fine. Holden stop reading so much into it. She loved being up there winning the award, even if there were multiple women it’s not as if every female lawyer in LA got it. Look at her smile of pride to us as the camera pans the stage.
Deadpool 3 will be rated R and Marvel Zombies (a Disney+ series) will be rated TV-MA. I'm 100% sure Daredevil will be fine. Disney/Marvel stuff has been on the family friendly side but that's obviously changing.
They didn't have a winner from each law firm Jen. We saw that both Jen and the other female lawyer from her firm win the award. The same one that helped her with Titania. It wasn't a regional thing, it wasn't a separate firm thing. It was a "You get one, and you get one, and you get one." kind of thing.
For people who've only seen the Netflix Daredevil, I can understand the trepidation. But for those who've read the comic that series was heavily based on Frank Millar's run, which is essentially 20 issues or so out of 500 issues. The Daredevil here is a lot closer to the actual comics Daredevil. And in the Netflix series and the comics all the girls love the DD.
Y'all, there's an unwritten rule in comicbook team ups that the visiting character fits the tone of the book he's visiting. It looks like Disney will be doing just that. Shulky never broke the fourth wall wen she was an Avenger or on the Fantatic Four. She left that kind of humor in her own book. She would actually be more Grimdark when she would visit Daredevil's comic. And any team ups between She-Hulk and Deadpool, I would expect not a single wall to be left standing.
Daredevil has always had a lighter side. Sure, when Frank Miller redefined the character back in the day he applied a much more gritty tone and yadda yadda, but the lighter side was always there any time he could feel relaxed and not in his gazillionth existential crisis. And that's true for many of the best runs of the character. And that includes the Netflix show, as could be seen whenever he was relaxed with his friends and no menace incoming, even reaching levels of goofiness when paired with Foggy. Sadly the writters didn't let him have many of those moments :P. They were also mostly (if not all?) on his Matt persona, but a full-suited Daredevil cracking jokes in a "routine" goon-busting with a superheroe pal is 100% true to the character.
I choose to trust that Charlie Cox wouldn’t take part in a daredevil show that wasn’t truthful to the character that he loves. In this ep, while he was more chill, he still brought the seriousness at the precise moments.
In reference to Daredevil being more "Spider Man-esque", he's known to be very acrobatic in the comics, so I was very happy to see him flipping around & things like that!
I think there’s a pretty simple way of looking at DD DD in She Hulk=Stan Lee/Mark Waid eras of the character Netflix DD= Frank Miller/Brian Bendis eras of the character DD is a pretty versatile character in terms of tones he can fit into, characters he can interact with and so on. Plus I won’t spoil anything, but post season 3 (if we consider it canon, which the official Marvel website heavily insinuates it is) then Matt being where he is rn makes sense. Come DD Born Again, I’m pretty confident it’ll be a balance of the two tones when it calls for each. And Matt will definitely have the iconic all red suit again come Born Again, as kinda having some symbolic meaning to that title. DD is also heavily rumored to be appearing in the Echo series (Maya from Hawkeye).
Holden was spot on with the "best female lawyer" award being a participation trophy. I would've been pissed if I were led to believe there was one winner and I was considered the favorite, then every other person in that sphere also got the award. That's a cold bait & switch. Todd is in the Inteligencia confirmed. No other reason as to why he's made so many appearances through the season, and why he was at this event at all, unless he's just stalking Jen. Then there's the bit where he's talking about the Wakandan vibranium spear, relating back to asking about a vibranium needle earlier in the season as well as seeing what looked like one in that other episode... he's probably HulkKing. There was even a thing in the credits in the first episode he appeared in where his character was Todd/Hulk-something that later got adjusted. On the topic of bringing Netflix characters in, really would've liked to see Jessica Jones brought in but it's looking like that old rumor was a total dud at this point.
I think Jen is correct. My comic book experience is that you play by the house rules. If you’re in a comedy, your character will be more comedic. I would expect the Daredevil show to be darker. We won’t see someone’s head smashed in by a car door, but I expect it to be still dark.
I'm sure the MCU will push the boundaries with DDs new show. Remember, this is the studio that brought us winter soldier, civil war, and infinity war. They're not afraid to get dark.
Red and yellow is the First Appearance Daredevil suit. Since his First Appearance in the Netflix MCU was the black pajamas suit, they kinda missed the opportunity for the red and yellow. So they took this new First Appearance in the main part of the MCU as an opportunity to use his First Appearance suit. But yea, 85% of the time red is his main suit color, and like 14% of the time it's black, and the yellow suit is just that last 1%.
I agree with Holden's take on the Female Lawyer of the Year award. I think the creative point being made with having multiple recipients of the award was that they were just giving the award to every female lawyer as a form of tokenization.
After this episode it’s pretty obvious most of the people hating this show need to talk to a woman who is not their mom for the first time in their lives really badly 😂
When it comes to dark tone I would have agreed before Andor came out. That show is the most mature show Marvel or Lucasfilm has done and it shows Disney is willing to go a bit more mature for stuff. Especially with them putting Logan and Deadpool on Disney plus proper.
As someone who felt really against this show and was only watching for the promise of the Daredevil cameo... This episode was awesome, even without the Daredevil cameo, it was amazing seeing Jen actually doing lawyer stuff, the episode actually being funny, She-Hulk being a badass, going somewhere with this whole "Intelligencia" not to mention She-Hulk's cool purple suit, I'm actually kind of excited for the season finale. Jen has been growing on me since the last couple of episodes as well As for the female lawyer of the year award... I kind of got the "beauty pagent" vibe, I assumed it was making satire/critizing that kind of stuff, but I wouldn't know, I don't know how that kind of award works
Leap Frog is an adversary of Daredevil's in the comics. And he actually does jump out of window and break his legs. His son takes over the mantle but decides that he wants to be a hero, any kind of pops in and out as a d list (at best) hero. Also in the comics Daredevil is more agile, moving around like this being an actual Dare Devil
Usually the guest star in the title character's comic fits in with the tone of said comic, if She Hulk were to appear in Daredevil the comedy aspect would be toned down.
The actress Renèe Goldsberry who plays Amelia also got a Lawyer of the Year award and works for the same firm as Jen otherwise known as actress Tatiana Maslany. So I agree with Holden they were giving the award out like a participation trophy.
I think DD was adjusted to the tone of the She-Hulk series perfectly, it's already been established that this series isn't all dark and crazy, it's a very light, humorous show, I don't think people expecting the exact Daredevil from Netflix have an objective mind set.
I agree with the participation trophy award theme that Holden referenced. She is a HORRIBLE lawyer, and the case at the beginning of this episode showed that. I also thought it was SUPER convenient that Damage Control was already outside waiting for She-Hulk to do something.
That’s not the walk of shame, that’s the stride of pride 😂
No man has ever walked the walk of shame
It's always nice to see two people walking away from a good time, happy. Especially when we're suppose to like both characters. I feel like so many other shows would have made it one sided but they made it even, which makes it even easier to like them both, there is no competition, they're on the same side.
😂😂😂😂 that was a good one
Aye
@@TheeDawson That's definitely not true.
This was actually pretty comic book accurate Daredevil. He's brooding and serious sure...but he does quip a lot and is a funny guy too. Netflix took it really dark because everyone always thinks that if you go gritty and realistic its more believable...but he does have fun too. I was very happy with this episode...so stoked for his new show and GLAD Charlie is back!
Kind of like Spider-Man, both have quips and can be snaeky, but a different personality for their other life style
The whole Female Lawyer of the Year award was set up to look like a beauty pageant. It was supposed to be pandering/participation as corporate woke-ism. The whole episode was great, in my opinion. The inclusion of Matt/Daredevil was done well. I agree with Jen that he was written in a way to suit this show. And also, I thought he was more lighthearted and open because She-Hulk/Jen was seen as his equal in law and heroism.
Nah, this show is the patron Saint of wokeism.
I wouldn't consider that wokeism. I don't understand why female lawyers need to be differentiated from male lawyers. They do the exact same job, there's no huge difference like there is in sports, so why make the difference here? I think it was a good scene, not the regular feminist pandering
@@kevinh9110 elaborate then, people love throwing "Woke" around without elaborating. And if they do it's usually "Women bad" minorities bad" types of arguments. 💀
@@schiffer2386nobody actually say female lawyer, ever. They’re just called lawyers so it was pandering to feminism.
tf are you talking about bro
I just loved that they respected the Netflix series by throwing in the visual and music references. It felt very reapectful while still having him fit the new tone of this show
Also people who are "displeased" should remember that his character's tone is set to match the tone of this show and does not mean he'll be as goofy in his own show or a different one that has a more serious tone.
@@Seraphilms it also had clear visual references in his hallway fight scene. They even made the lighting in such a way to hide the new color sceme in the hallway fight. It was a love letter to DD netflix fans imo
@@JudgeFudge57 Displeased? You mean people that have a different opinion?
@@werdle92 Nah it wasn't it was more of a callback
@@trevorphilips9065 I really can't be more straightforward that this lol. I mean people who are not satisfied.
I've enjoyed the whole show for the most part but this was definitely the best episode yet. They kept Matt consistent with his previous character while altering him enough to fit the theme of this show. Very excited for the finale.
Aptly put..
" Enjoyed"
"Consistent "😂
I am sure you were also enjoyed the Thor Love and thunder, dr strange 2
Marvel is becoming very childish now.
🤮
Yes everything they do is amazing we get it
Only good episode
@@pritam_chavan10 Doctor Strange 2 didn't feel like a comedy tho.
I agree with Jen on how Daredevil was written to fit the tone of this show. Doesn't mean that's how he will be in his show or movies. Just like She Hulk will adapt to the story they are apart of after this show ends.
bad writing
@@TheDrDrizzy I 100% agree, Daredevil should be depressed and broody 100% of the time ,he's not allowed to smile and make jokes at all. 😡😡😡
EDIT: (Guys, this comment is meant to be a jab at people who don't think Daredevil is allowed to make jokes and smile 🤣)
He will be written like this on the show
Actually he will be comedic in Daredevil born again also
Daredevil was comedic in comics & Marvel is going in that way
@@awaissasghar2295 I mean in the comics he’s like comedic in the comic from his first introduction. But I see where you’re coming from.
That ending does hit pretty hard. It makes sense that this would be one of the few things that could set Jen off into Savage She-Hulk and fulfill Bruce's warning of it only takes one moment for people to see you as a monster. Since episode one we (most anyway there were a lot of people bitching she didn't start as SSH but whatever) knew this would happen towards the end of the series and I can't wait to see what happens in the finale.
Oh no, revenge porn. How can she ever overcome this villainess plot lol
@@jeffcunningham0389 tip of the iceberg
@@jeffcunningham0389 I've always assumed she would have a savage rage moment but I always thought it was gonna be someone dying.
@@Mr.YasQueen i agree
@@hrs2044 no I think that’s it
Yes Holden, the point of the award that is it WAS degrading. First of all a female lawyer award and not just a lawyer award. The fact that it's basically a participation trophy and all the woman won. Then they essentially treat it as a beauty pagent. So many people are brainwashed and think that stuff wasn't an intentional call out.
I think that's what so many people got wrong about the show in the beginning. I see it as a comical social commentary from a woman's point of view. Not to be taken too seriously while at the same time highlighting serious topics. For example all the "douchebags" are in the show, not because "ALL MEN are douchebags", but because they bring a lot of exaggerated fun to the show while still portraying actual real life people.
Yawn
@@trevorphilips9065 Your comments to everyone on this channel are so cringey.
@@storyofm6820 I'm not the one into garbage shows
@@trevorphilips9065 you consider it garbage, that's fine, so why are you here? Commenting here won't make you like it more nor make us like it less.
This iteration of Matt Murdock is faithful to the comics. DD got around. He was not a monk. Jen Walters is also faithful to the comics. She Hulk has a healthy sex life in the comics too. She got kicked out of the Avengers mansion for partying too much. Fun fact, the other lawyers on the stage are actual lawyers besides Mallory.
You'd think with ACTUAL lawyers around that they might get some of the court scenes remotely correct.
@@stevef68 I mean, Jen is supposed to be a too tier lawyer and she bungled that case HARD. Even without Matt's super-senses, that case was doomed.
Since when did people care for comic accuracy?
literally in the first episode of daredevil, foggy says that matt sleeps with a lot of women too. so its not only comic accurate.
The sex life part is about the only thing from the comics they got right.
i think holden is right about the "female lawyer of the year" another lawyer that works in her same law firm also got the award. thats why i think she hulk looked shocked in that moment because she thought she was the sole winner. when it turns out they gave like six people the "female lawyer of the year".
that scene was compleetly a woke hollywood moment,laywer of the year cant be more then 1,the way you do that scene is to present the top 4 laywers and just to piss no1 of just make it 2 female lawyers and 2 men.
and honestly the mistakes jen makes in her court cases there is no way she is among the top laywers.
@@Marcustheseer exactly it cant be more than one thats why they all look so insulted lol
Its not a "woke" moment where its a good thing for all these women, its fuckin humiliating and theyre being patronized
@@Marcustheseer The show was making fun of participation trophys... LMFAO how is it a "Woke Hollywood Moment" some of y'all need to take a media Literacy Class. 😂😫
@@Marcustheseer lol woke hollywood? That scene was making fun of "woke hollywood" but I wouldn't expect someone to use that phrase unironically to understand what they were doing.
@veggster imagine trying to be so condescending about something when that something so obviously flew completely over your head hahaha
Matt does say homie made him a few new suits, thats why he represented him pro bono. Id bet the mustard suit isnt the only one we see him in
Loved the Carrie parallel at the end. And we got "red" Hulk (the way they filmed the last sequence, with the alarms blaring and everything glowing red).
That was a walk of pride, not shame =P Our man hooked up with Jen, to a VERY satisfying conclusion on both sides, no shame in two adults enjoying one another's company. And they had incredible chemistry, though everyone so far has worked off of Tatiana really well which is a testament to her ease to work with as an actor.
Best episode so far, by miles. Not just because our best boy was in it (a character we have a long loving history with by now so rightfully so we're celebrating him) but because of how well it was handled, it wasn't one making the other look bad, it was a mutually beneficial episode. Daredevil helped raise She-Hulk, without anyone needing to put anyone down.
They are making Daredevil more comics accurate. In the comics he is very acrobatic. He even uses the cable that comes out of his billy clubs to swing around the city. I've been listening to the Marvel Wastelanders Podcast and She Hulk makes a voice appearance.
I think the word to describe the awards ceremony at the end is "patronizing" not "pandering." Pandering is being given something you want even if it's not earned. Patronizing is when something seemingly nice is being done but its clearly being done in a condescending way by someone who feels superior to you. My impression of this scene was the legal association must have only ever given the lawyer of the year award to men, got criticized for it, decided to create a female lawyer award, and gave it to a whole bunch of women in the cringiest ceremony ever.
Could it all have been a set-up from the Intelligencia? to show the world how bad she-hulk is?
Yeah, I think this is worth iterating because Holden especially seems to flag things as "pandering" that aren't pandering at all (whether it's because it's a buzzword or what, I don't know), but are other things that are worth discussion. The way the old white dude was presenting the award was also low-key demeaning as well, or could at least be read that way, since he's popping off with dated jokes.
I wonder if that scene is a kind of rorschach test. If you look at it and think, "if everyone who wins the lawyer of the year is a man, that's because the better lawyers all happen to be men, but, if it'll make them happy, we'll give the women their own female lawyer of the year award," then you're going to see it as pandering. On the other hand, if you agree with Mallory Book that women have to be twice as good to get half the credit and, even then, they have to put up with demeaning questions like, "what's it like to be a female lawyer," then you're going to see it as patronizing.
@@davidranderson1 yeah that's a good way to put it. I think the series as a whole is sort of like that - so many folks are like "who's the real villain," but it's like, the real villain is right in front of you the whole time. It's Jen, and her as a metaphor for women in the professional world and in general, against the expectations of the people around her, particularly men in male-dominated arenas like Reddit and internet fandoms who hate her for simply existing. People who don't see that and are chasing big bads, regardless of who's ultimately pulling the strings of the Intelligencia and who HulkKing is, are missing the forest for the trees entirely and I think that's another huge Rorschach test, to borrow your phrase.
And to your point, Mallory's definitely meant to be like a jab at the establishment/patriarchy there, where she's using the same jokes that the presenter used but she's not really laughing or finding it funny because as others have said, they degraded the award and the nominees by turning it into a pageant and parading the women as "all winners" and "wow look at these women we have working for us" instead of actually recognizing their achievements. They don't really care what it's like being a woman in that field, and they don't understand how or why what they're doing is gross and insensitive - it might not be as malicious as what the Intelligencia are doing, but it's exhausting to have to deal with on a daily basis.
the hallway fight is obvs a callback to the original show. thought it was cool in that scene that they went with a blue light/glow rather than red which the netflix show often used. so good! i got goosebumps when he walked into the courtroom
The Gold suit is the original where Matt fashioned it from his Dads costume. So the suit itself might not be as cool as the red one but the gold has more sentimental value for fans.
DD Netflix is mostly based on Frank Miller's run, but DD isn't always taking on a dark tone, there're moments of lightness and some even borderline goofy.
Also, She-Hulk and DD are.. uhh VERY popular with those of their opposite sex and this meet up was inevitable!
They hook up in the comics anyways, so it was very faithful.
@@TheViper4Life There isn't many heroes She-Hulk hasn't hooked up with in the comics. 🤣🤣
@@TheViper4Life in wich comics ?
I absolutely loved this episode. It was great seeing Matt in a happier place in his life where he can be more jovial. Don't get me wrong, I love the Netflix adaptation of Daredevil, and I'm sure 'Daredevil: Born Again' will be darker, but it was nice change of pace (for at least one episode) to see him act in a way that was slightly different, but still felt consistent to the Netflix version of the character.
EDIT: After listening to your post-episode discussion, I totally understand your reservations Holden regarding the new Daredevil show; however, I think it is important to remember a few key things. One, 'Daredevil: Born Again' is going to be 18 episodes thereby making it the longest season of any Marvel Disney+ show by far. I don't believe that the writers will gloss over the important aspects of Matt Murdock's life. Also, I know you guys haven't seen it yet, but Marvel Studios just released a Halloween special called 'Werewolf by Night' that was definitely the most violent thing they've produced thus far. While it wasn't as violent as the Daredevil Netflix show, it shows that they are willing to delve into doing darker material, something I think will carry over to the new Daredevil show. I also think that Jen hit the nail on the head in saying that Daredevil in this episode was used in a way that fit the show that he was currently in. Comics do that all the time. For example, if Wolverine shows up in a Ms. Marvel comic, he's not going to be as dark and brooding as if he was in his own comic. It's not an easy thing to do as you still have to keep the core of who the character is there, but when writers do it successfully, you can get a great team-up or crossover story. In the case of this episode of She-Hulk, I think the writer (I'm blanking on their name; forgive me) did an excellent job of keeping the spirit of who Daredevil is without making him a joke. Like, I believed that this was the same Matt Murdock from the Netflix show (still not sure if the show is canon though), just at a time in his life where things were going a lot better for him. Anyways, these are just my thoughts, but I really don't think we should be too worried regarding the new show that comes out in 2024. I think it'll be very good.
I hope Daredevil born again is as good as the original show
Given how season 3 of Daredevil ends, I can totally see Matt become more chill years later.
he had a good little bit of time hopping from one catastraphe to another in the netflix show. of course they aren't going to show to many times where he is happy go lucky. just watch the bar scenes. Foggy mentions his ability to hookup with attractive women atleast once, in reference to elektra. I don't think the celibacy thing was his bag on the netflix show either, just assumed since he was hardcore on not killing because catholic/he believes it to be wrong and condemning someone for a single action.
I think it's been a while since Daredevil has been through some tough times and it's good to see him laid back a little. He seems more experienced and confident in his superhero persona. I think that with time passing he could have healed and I look forward to a slightly lighter tone as long as it's not too jokey. I'm pretty sure that them using daredevils theme from the Netflix show is confirmation that it is the same Daredevil.
Daredevil is super acrobatic in the comics, I loved the way he moved here!
Matt did say to Jen that Luke did make multiple suits for him. Regarding Matt/Daredevil's character in this show is true to comic book character being comedic and flirty. The gold and red suit pays homage to the yellow and red suit he had in the comics. Oh and in the comics Matt and Jen did hook-up.
What Jen said about acknowledging different Female Lawyers from different regions or whatever criteria, at an Awards Ceremony they would call them up individually with that criteria stated.
IE- “For Female Lawyer of The Year from ____ County is _____”
But in the show they were all called up and just being handed awards without any further clarification. So I have to agree that it was just a participation type trophy.
Even worse it was literally just "Southern California" that was the scale of the awards ceremony.
Hey editor Devin, you’re getting real good and smooth seriously, the edits are slick and clean!
Thanks Jakob!
I think you’re spot on with the female lawyer of the year award part Holden. It was intentional I feel to undercut her moment right before the real punch in the gut later.
You guys should definitely check out Werewolf by Night I think it’s something different and enjoyable to watch especially during the Halloween season it’s very dark short film.
super agree
Holden, your read of "Female Lawyer of the Year" was the show's observation, too. These kinds of participation awards exist, often specifically for women and people of color, and it's an awkward thing to be given one because it absolutely is pandering... but also that's often the only kind of special recognition you can get in your field. And there's no easy answer here because it's either hollow tokenism or nothing at all.
In practice (and in the show) most people are just rolling with it and enjoy the chance to dress up and feel appreciated, however shallow the professional side of it is. Jen's table is full of people who love and support her and she was taking the opportunity to publicly thank them, and that's all that really matters if the episode had ended there: a message about the people who really matter, not some dumb award.
(And of course, the real purpose of this scene was to set up the conflict and humiliation at the end, but that's plot stuff.)
Like Jen said, Moon Knight had dark tones, they brought Deadpool onto Disney+. I think they won't change Daredevil and if they do it won't be much of a change.
Also, there has been three seasons of what holden described "Matt brooding about not killing people, his religion vs being a vigilante being intense and in love" does that need to keep being the focal point after three seasons?
Also the one night stand stuff is absolutely not out of character for netflixs Matt. Obviously a lot of his "nights" are actually him being daredevil and not having one night stands like foggy thinks. But foggy obviously thinks that because there is a precedent for it.
I think the tone works for Matt. There are comicbook runs where he is more of a carefree, swashbuckling hero and this perfectly captured that. I hope his show has a middle ground between this and the Netflix show. I don’t feel like I need the Netflix show again.
I agree with Holden that the point of the award was just to be inclusive instead of actually giving their lawyers credit, I also agree with Jen that there's a big that daredevil will still be more serious compared to other marvel properties. Marvel would be shooting their own arm if they don't realize that that's what people loved with the netflix series.
I mean yea, but that was kind of the whole point, that the entire event was incredibly patronizing. The fact that it was a "Female Lawyer of the Year" award is already patronizing, and then the fact that they ended up giving it out like a participation trophy makes it even worse. On top of that they are expected to grin and bear it, and act grateful.
It's not like the Intelligencia thing squashed her big moment, it was another embarrassment heaped on top of a string of smaller embarrassments.
@@sk_lurks I got all of that, but if you watch the video Jen wasn't sure that was what the scene was depicting
@@cmd0113 Yeah sorry I guess I was half replying to you and also half replying to them.
I loved this episode and Matt’s appearance. And for Matt and Daredevil being different in this than his Netflix adaptation it’s not a huge change if you think about it. With every other person who gets into a dangerous situation they’re human, vulnerable, and can easily be hurt in the situation. Like Electra, deadly fighter, trained, but still human and ended up dying. Not to mention Karen or Foggy being always in trouble he always had to make sure they were safe first. With Jen he doesn’t have to worry about that with her power set and because of her public persona already knew who he was messing with during that parking lot fight. And he didn’t have to worry about telling her not to go on a killing spree or hurt people like he did with the punisher. And for the casual hook up at the end with Jen, foggy himself said he would go home with beautiful woman all the time “He’s always having beautiful woman touch his face…. Come to think of it he always seems to know which ones are pretty before they touch him…”. So I don’t think it’s too outside his character, we just never saw it on screen before. We’re there things thrown in to make it work with the show that we’re outside the Daredevil norm sure, the walk of shame seems to be the biggest but with the tone of the show it works. That’s just my two cents worth, can’t wait to see where the finale takes us and where the daredevil born again will go.
I mean you can just see in the daredevil netflix show that he has pulled Claire the night nurse, Karen, he been already had Electra wanting him and she was consistently throwing herself on to him every chance she had.
The scene at the end where she’s destroying things and people are running and screaming is a callback to the line Bruce was talking about where he warned her about being seen as a monster and how hard it is to shake that once it happens…
I think the reason Matt and Jennifer get along is because they are both lawyers, both try to do good and are both superheroes. He probably see's a lot of him in her and realizes he doesn't have to pretend to be someone he is not.
for me they should have ended the episode at Matt doing the walk of shame/ Stride of pride. The end of the episode should have been an episode itself and build up to the last episode better.
She Hulk isn't really a superhero though. Considering all the assaults and property damage she causes, she's a lot closer to supervillain than superhero.
@@grimscar She Hulk's no supervillain. She's more like a very inexperienced superhero with super powers. Also, while she can control those powers, Jen doesn't have a good grasp of when to use or not use them. Hence, the property damage.
Don't also forget shes a hulk and any hulk is known for being destructive. @crucisnh
Love the new DD suit. Honors his dads colors as a boxer.
i like how DD moves with proper CG budgetting lol, like in the comics he's literally the only person to have agility and balance on par with spiderman, a fucking blind man is as agile as spiderman, they obivously were limited in the netflix show with what they could show and do (like in jessica jones, the super awkward super jump shots) so it's going to be awesome to see him fighting some big bad's not just goons, cause while he is street level, everyone including the avengers know he's not someone to underestimate
I have to agree with Holden on the award debate. I see what Jen is thinking but what she's missing is that one of the other award recipients is in She Hulks division at the same law firm.
I think everyone underestimates Disney+ and the MCU. They’ve obviously built the pieces to attribute those elements from the Netflix show to the new Born Again show.
Charlie already said the 18 episode show will retain a lot of intensity + we gotta remember he ends off S3 ina pretty happier place
Also in here he made it clear that he's been doing this for a long time, so matt could had gone to a point where he relaxed more and a little more loose, and since this is the she hulk show he got a little more in to the theme of the show
I, too, hope that Matt goes back to his red and black suit soon (it's so iconic), but it is sweet that he's fighting crime wearing his Dad's colors. It demonstrates the more positive place he's in after Season Three of 'Daredevil'.
Can't wait for the new Daredevil series.
I know you haven't showed Jen season 3 of Daredevil yet(or at least didn't react to it if you did) but with where season 3 ends it makes sense for Matt to be more laid back and open. It also matches the tone of She-Hulk but who knows, maybe Echo and Daredevil Born Again will have a darker tone with Kingpin being back and causing problems for them.
Everything that was shown about Matt in this episode fits with how he is, or has been, in the comics. He *IS* quippy and flirty and acrobatic. Wolverine once called Daredevil "the biggest Himbo in NYC," as Matt is no stranger to one night stands. I saw an article a few days ago titled "Matt Murdock's 15 best love interests." Fifteen BEST. It was Frank Miller that really cranked up the brooding and edginess of Daredevil in the '80s, but even then he could crack wise with the best of them, it just tended to be a little darker. His interactions with Spider-Man are great; they've even covered for each other a few times.
What I'm getting at is that while I fully expect that the Disney+ version will by necessity be somewhat lighter in tone than the Netflix version, I think it will still be on the grittier side. Fisk may not take someone's head off with a car door, but I trust that Charlie will only let it go so far towards the lighter side.
His next appearance will be in Echo, and from what I've heard he may be something of a co-feature in that show. It would make sense, given that Alaqua Cox had never acted before appearing in Hawkeye. She did a great job, but she didn't have to carry an entire show. It's sensible to have Charlie around to help. Plus, Echo as a character was introduced in Daredevil comics in 1999, and nowhere else until 2005 in New Avengers. She didn't get her own comic run until 2021. The point is that she's very closely tied to Daredevil, and I think her series will give us a better indication of how gritty the Daredevil series will be.
Its kind of weird, but I’ve grown to love this version of Matt Murdock so much that I felt happy he finally seems happy and enjoying himself, even though it’s not really the same character.
This is more faithful to the comics. He is more agile in the comics also.
I could argue it is the same character, after the ending of season 3, matt would be way happier, he went through his life crises and came out stronger, and makes sense he changed his suit colors too, after season 3. marvels website and the writer said its the same matt we came to know and love.
@@RenegadeSpider2 Ok, maybe. I was just going off of what I’ve read of Charlie Cox’s supposed comments. I hope it’s the same character, and I approve of lightening him up as long as they don’t clownify him like they did with Thor or Drax.
@@brianbsoltis I agree. To be fair Charlie cox also said in that same interview that he hasn’t seen a script yet. He was just guessing like anyone else
I think hes just grown and become less miserable off screen
I dont see why we cant see different sides of characters
Loved this episode as well. Can't wait for you guys to continue Daredevil and finish up season 3.
True but they need to watch Defenders because it does play a role for S3 afterward
@@littlesparrow303 I didn't watch Defenders and when I was confused in the opening of S3 I just searched it up
@@expiredbagel2001 Defenders had some really cool fight scenes. Stick was a badass as well
@@littlesparrow303 I didnt watch Defenders myself and didn't really feel all that lost
Last time we saw Matt Murdock/ Daredevil appear in Spider-Man No Way Home. It's Incredible to see him again.
Fridging is when an insignificant character, usually female, is sacrificed for the hero to pursue a cause or vengeance. A Green Lantern's (don't remember which one) girlfriend was murdered and put into a fridge. Other examples would be Spider-Man's uncle Ben, the girlfriend in American Assassin, or debatably Vanessa in Deadpool 2.
I absolutely adored this episode…the ending was so frustrating to watch but everything with Jen and Daredevil.
I may be completely wrong, but I felt the ending was kind of showing there is a "hulk side" to Jen not just Jen as She-Hulk, similar to how she wasn't fully control the first time she transformed. The pure rage, disgust, embarassment finally forced it out. Again I may have missed a mark there though.
I agree
I remember watching the first episode and cringing at She-Hulk’s monologue to Hulk about anger and whatever. Seeing this episode, it all makes sense now. Her character is supposed to be impatient as well as overconfident with her beliefs and in her strength as a woman living in modern times. And so Hulk’s words turns out to be true. She skipped the training and it only took one moment to set her off fully and make her look like a monster
You guys still need to watch season 3!!
Don't worry guys, they said that Daredevil only is like this for this show because that is the format. Feige said he will be more serious in Echo, & his own series. Jenn is absolutely right according to Feige's interviews. So don't worry.
They were 100% going for the "everybody wins" with the female lawyer of the year. Why would Jen even be nominated for that when she hasn't won a single case for the whole series
I mean she did win release for Emil, but yeah
She’s won the Emil case, Titania case, and the Wong case
@@Ne0Nights The Emil case she did win, true. The Titiana one wasn't hers and for the Wong case she basically threatened the magician to give it up
@@michaeldecock3952 you’re right about Titania. Though for the Magician, a win is still a win
The episode circles back to the first episode, "once they see you as a monster ...", which seems to be the Intelligencia's plan, strike at She-Hulk's public opinion.
Holden is right on his take about the lawyers. Mallory was also selected from the same law firm, so it's not a regional or city award. It was just a participation award. I didn't think it made any sense for Mallory to also get the award and not tell anyone in her office, but what do I know?
Bruce Banner's advice in the very first episode. "Once they see you as a monster there's no going back."
I love that fact they are comic accurate in having Matt as the lady's man of Marvel. She Hulk is also her funny 4th wall breaking self.
Daredevil was perfect on this. He's always had that lighter side. It just wasn't explored much in his show, but it worked perfectly here.
The people whining about Daredevil making jokes or She-Hulk hooking up with people never read the source material. Its weird to whine about stuff you know nothing about.
Il go Cry about quantum physics on another channel...
While I loved him in She-Hulk I'm sure he'll be closer to his darker roots in his own disney plus show or if he were to make an appearance in an other more serious show.
Not everybody read the comics and it's known for being inconsistent means different versions written by different people and Netflix is the one Made this character mainstream and well known throughout the globe so it makes sense that they don't want him to be light-hearted I guess Since Disney Marvel is known for that type of writing.
@@Petrixxxxxxx Yet you people haven't even read one yourselves
This version of Daredevil is more Comics accurate in Personality, attitude, and tone than the Netflix version. Keep in mind that the person in charge of the Netflix shows and the former ABC Marvel shows were ran by someone who had experience with action shows, but NO experience or knowledge about Marvel characters, so they were re-invented for a new audience that they may have felt would reach a wider demographic. This is the conundrum of live action adaptaions of historically popular characters.... decades of fans who number in the billions that generate interest in a live adaptation, then are subjected to seeing a character that showrunners feel is close enough to what they were expecting without alienating the core base and in turn entice those who have never read a comic to engage.
Daredevil naturally wanted to go dark but She-Hulk pulled him into her lightness/humor. Listen to his music cues. Just like the comics, characters will adapt based on whose comic they’re in. His show will be just fine.
Holden stop reading so much into it. She loved being up there winning the award, even if there were multiple women it’s not as if every female lawyer in LA got it. Look at her smile of pride to us as the camera pans the stage.
It won't be fine
Intro was fire. Well done, editor. Well done!
Deadpool 3 will be rated R and Marvel Zombies (a Disney+ series) will be rated TV-MA.
I'm 100% sure Daredevil will be fine. Disney/Marvel stuff has been on the family friendly side but that's obviously changing.
The Marvel website confirmed this Daredevil is the same one from the Netflix show.
They didn't have a winner from each law firm Jen. We saw that both Jen and the other female lawyer from her firm win the award. The same one that helped her with Titania. It wasn't a regional thing, it wasn't a separate firm thing. It was a "You get one, and you get one, and you get one." kind of thing.
For people who've only seen the Netflix Daredevil, I can understand the trepidation. But for those who've read the comic that series was heavily based on Frank Millar's run, which is essentially 20 issues or so out of 500 issues. The Daredevil here is a lot closer to the actual comics Daredevil. And in the Netflix series and the comics all the girls love the DD.
My head canon is that Matt was more laid back and flirty because he knows he doesn't have to protect Jen.
True !
I mean, Matt is also kind of a player, if you know the character lol
Y'all, there's an unwritten rule in comicbook team ups that the visiting character fits the tone of the book he's visiting. It looks like Disney will be doing just that. Shulky never broke the fourth wall wen she was an Avenger or on the Fantatic Four. She left that kind of humor in her own book. She would actually be more Grimdark when she would visit Daredevil's comic. And any team ups between She-Hulk and Deadpool, I would expect not a single wall to be left standing.
Great intro bro! 🤙🏽 love that DD piano
Daredevil has always had a lighter side. Sure, when Frank Miller redefined the character back in the day he applied a much more gritty tone and yadda yadda, but the lighter side was always there any time he could feel relaxed and not in his gazillionth existential crisis. And that's true for many of the best runs of the character.
And that includes the Netflix show, as could be seen whenever he was relaxed with his friends and no menace incoming, even reaching levels of goofiness when paired with Foggy. Sadly the writters didn't let him have many of those moments :P. They were also mostly (if not all?) on his Matt persona, but a full-suited Daredevil cracking jokes in a "routine" goon-busting with a superheroe pal is 100% true to the character.
I choose to trust that Charlie Cox wouldn’t take part in a daredevil show that wasn’t truthful to the character that he loves. In this ep, while he was more chill, he still brought the seriousness at the precise moments.
Love there chemistry and Daredevil doing the walk of shame the other women on stage are actually real lawyers
In reference to Daredevil being more "Spider Man-esque", he's known to be very acrobatic in the comics, so I was very happy to see him flipping around & things like that!
Gorgeous intro and loved those text zooms lol
Jen's reaction to DD and She-Hulk getting it on. Priceless.
LETS GOOO HOLDEN AND WIFE ARE BACK!!!! Dig the shirts 😮💨
I think there’s a pretty simple way of looking at DD
DD in She Hulk=Stan Lee/Mark Waid eras of the character
Netflix DD= Frank Miller/Brian Bendis eras of the character
DD is a pretty versatile character in terms of tones he can fit into, characters he can interact with and so on. Plus I won’t spoil anything, but post season 3 (if we consider it canon, which the official Marvel website heavily insinuates it is) then Matt being where he is rn makes sense. Come DD Born Again, I’m pretty confident it’ll be a balance of the two tones when it calls for each. And Matt will definitely have the iconic all red suit again come Born Again, as kinda having some symbolic meaning to that title. DD is also heavily rumored to be appearing in the Echo series (Maya from Hawkeye).
Werewolf by Night is the most darkest thing the MCU has done!!! It’s scary good
Holden was spot on with the "best female lawyer" award being a participation trophy. I would've been pissed if I were led to believe there was one winner and I was considered the favorite, then every other person in that sphere also got the award. That's a cold bait & switch.
Todd is in the Inteligencia confirmed. No other reason as to why he's made so many appearances through the season, and why he was at this event at all, unless he's just stalking Jen. Then there's the bit where he's talking about the Wakandan vibranium spear, relating back to asking about a vibranium needle earlier in the season as well as seeing what looked like one in that other episode... he's probably HulkKing. There was even a thing in the credits in the first episode he appeared in where his character was Todd/Hulk-something that later got adjusted.
On the topic of bringing Netflix characters in, really would've liked to see Jessica Jones brought in but it's looking like that old rumor was a total dud at this point.
Watch Werewolf by Night it’s super gory!!!
I think Jen is correct. My comic book experience is that you play by the house rules. If you’re in a comedy, your character will be more comedic. I would expect the Daredevil show to be darker. We won’t see someone’s head smashed in by a car door, but I expect it to be still dark.
This is feeling a lot like The Book of Boba Fett, where they needed to rescue the series by bringing in a popular character.
They way you both realized Matt Murdock was Luke’s lawyer lol
I'm sure the MCU will push the boundaries with DDs new show. Remember, this is the studio that brought us winter soldier, civil war, and infinity war. They're not afraid to get dark.
Red and yellow is the First Appearance Daredevil suit.
Since his First Appearance in the Netflix MCU was the black pajamas suit, they kinda missed the opportunity for the red and yellow.
So they took this new First Appearance in the main part of the MCU as an opportunity to use his First Appearance suit.
But yea, 85% of the time red is his main suit color, and like 14% of the time it's black, and the yellow suit is just that last 1%.
4:12 I've heard that interviewers freaked out about his eyes, he got used to not moving them after all the time he pretended while acting.
I agree with Holden's take on the Female Lawyer of the Year award. I think the creative point being made with having multiple recipients of the award was that they were just giving the award to every female lawyer as a form of tokenization.
He’s way more flexible in the comics than the series portrayed
After this episode it’s pretty obvious most of the people hating this show need to talk to a woman who is not their mom for the first time in their lives really badly 😂
When it comes to dark tone I would have agreed before Andor came out. That show is the most mature show Marvel or Lucasfilm has done and it shows Disney is willing to go a bit more mature for stuff. Especially with them putting Logan and Deadpool on Disney plus proper.
As someone who felt really against this show and was only watching for the promise of the Daredevil cameo... This episode was awesome, even without the Daredevil cameo, it was amazing seeing Jen actually doing lawyer stuff, the episode actually being funny, She-Hulk being a badass, going somewhere with this whole "Intelligencia" not to mention She-Hulk's cool purple suit, I'm actually kind of excited for the season finale.
Jen has been growing on me since the last couple of episodes as well
As for the female lawyer of the year award... I kind of got the "beauty pagent" vibe, I assumed it was making satire/critizing that kind of stuff, but I wouldn't know, I don't know how that kind of award works
Leap Frog is an adversary of Daredevil's in the comics. And he actually does jump out of window and break his legs. His son takes over the mantle but decides that he wants to be a hero, any kind of pops in and out as a d list (at best) hero.
Also in the comics Daredevil is more agile, moving around like this being an actual Dare Devil
I’m so glad Daredevil is back!!!
would love to see you guys continue Daredevil season 3
Usually the guest star in the title character's comic fits in with the tone of said comic, if She Hulk were to appear in Daredevil the comedy aspect would be toned down.
They made Daredevil kind of light hearted to make his fall that more tragic when king pin destroys Matt and he slowly turns dark.
The actress Renèe Goldsberry who plays Amelia also got a Lawyer of the Year award and works for the same firm as Jen otherwise known as actress Tatiana Maslany. So I agree with Holden they were giving the award out like a participation trophy.
9:44 "Get up all in there Matt." - Holden Thomas Hardman
I think DD was adjusted to the tone of the She-Hulk series perfectly, it's already been established that this series isn't all dark and crazy, it's a very light, humorous show, I don't think people expecting the exact Daredevil from Netflix have an objective mind set.
I agree with the participation trophy award theme that Holden referenced. She is a HORRIBLE lawyer, and the case at the beginning of this episode showed that. I also thought it was SUPER convenient that Damage Control was already outside waiting for She-Hulk to do something.