My late Dad was an Electrical Engineer who spent his career working for Rea Magnet Wire in Ft Wayne,In. They manufacture the wire Squatch is demonstrating in today’s video. My Dad would have loved Squatch’s presentation. Brings back memories of my Dad. Thanks Squatch!
My dad was a trucker his whole life but his home time was spent wrenching on old tractors…..he’d disassemble things for no reason other than the enjoyment of doing it…lol. I know if he were still here he also would be a big fan of Sqautch
Thanks! Sad but true side of UA-cam though - I don’t hit enough things with sledge hammers, cut enough things with torches, or pump enough ether into engines to be a favorite of the almighty algorithm lol
Toby, I have said it before and will say it again, you are one hell of an instructor. It is the passion for the subject and the clear explanations. The do s, the don'ts, and the whys. You hit them all. Thanks.
Squatch, you have gone way beyond "watch me do it" to explaining "how to do it". Absolutely awesome. (although the D2 episode's #cylinder liner reinsertion* "ask me how I know" & I think the #clutch reassembly "like a Ninja" still make me chuckle) *it was the new piston & rings into new liners vs latex gloves episode
You can read a repair manual, but to see someone that's got experience doing this is, well, 'picture is worth a thousand words' worthy. Thanks again Squatch. Invaluable.
I was very satisfied to get a refresher course on the generator side of the start and charge side of basic electrical. I learned all that in 1974 and hadn't really used it. Having it on video will be a source of information in the future. In Hillbilly term I gots me an edjumacation so now I knows my noughts and gazintos. Thanks Toby
Dude, I love attending one of your classes. I learn so much from you, of course, I will probably never use any of the information but you make it look so easy to do. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the rebuilding of the starter and generator.....
I like the way you highlighted that bearing number and also upgraded it to a sealed bearing and left the original oiling cup in place. Good moves to incress the life of the generator and to keep the original parts and looks. Thanks Mr Squatch....
I can't express the absolute importance of proper troubleshooting and testing and you've have done both exquisitely! Thanks for sharing your expertise and knowledge!
Unfortunately I know several former teachers, and every one of them tell me the same thing - that young people in general ARE NOT interesting in learning any of this stuff. Combine that with severe limitations on discipline that any teacher is allowed to impose, plus parents that will go against anything they try to make the kids do - that means that teaching is absolutely not for me. I would get fired, sued, or both lol ;-)
@@squatch253it’s totally true and too bad because Professor Squatch has taught us all SO much! I was going to teach High School Biology when I graduated from Purdue in 1979. I couldn’t stand the kids back THEN so I know I wouldn’t have survived.
@squatch235 I did the for profit trade school as instructor. Your past instructors are correct. Most are unaware of what they want to do, and they become issues. I now work as a trainer for a car manufacturer. Different "student". Most share the passion or desire to learn. Great video! Your experience and passion shine through!
In my freshman year of high school I won my school's science project with my presentation of ohm's law. I have a recently retired as a master electrician. And I would love to have the test equipment to work on These old components much in my spare time.
I do enjoy your videos showing the how, why, and what for's of mechanicing. I hope people will gain an appreciation for what we as mechanics have to know for one thing and the investment we put in just to provide a quality service for people. I think we are a dying breed unless something changes.
This takes me back to my yrs work in F&E shop at Ft Hood Tx.( Fuel & elec) Those were some of the examples of what we did to incl but not limited to military application all being 24 volt. Great times and great memories.
Ya know, grandpa always used to tell me that our Allis WD45 used to break nosecones on the starter a lot. He always said it was because he thought the timing was too advanced and it kicked back and broke it. But it was converted to 12 Volts (by him) and WD45s were obviously originally 6. I wonder if he didn't upgrade the bendix 🤔Might need to check that out one of these days
Hi folks, I have a solid electrical background dating back fifty years. This is the clearest explanation of starter and generator testing I have ever come across. Thoroughly recommended!
I'm loving this series I have a Delco-remi generator on my 820 pony start that doesn't always charge and this gives me the confidence I need to take it apart and at least clean it to see if it actually needs a rebuild or not
Also keep in mind that the generator is only one part of a two part charging system, the voltage regulator is the second. Many times the problem is in the regulator if it's an intermittent issue.
@squatch253 I put a brand new voltage regular on it first as it wasn't putting any voltage out at first because that was the first thing I thought of and now it sometimes charges which is good but the battery still runs low after a while and I'd like to fix that so I'm assuming it's just a dirty generator but after watching your videos now I'll know how to look at things and test things ill leave the rebuild up to a pro since I have a guy local that does it still
Loving it. The starter on my 63 Massey Ferguson is a delco remy. I need to replace the bendix. Series of videos is help me a lot. Thanks Squatch. Between you and Kenny K. I got a lot better understanding of things.
Thank you for the plain and simple explanation of it all. Electrical is like brain surgery to me, I'm somehow always baffled but you're explained things perfectly. Always enjoy your videos, specially your in shop videos.
I worked in an auto parts store when I was 17. More than a couple years ago. The guy that owned the store had a generator and alternator repair bench in the back. He had all of the tools you have shown, as well as a couple of the other testers you would like to have. It was amazing how easy it was to fix a starter or generator of that era. He would offer to repair a customer unit rather than having them buy a remanufactured one. He had quite the business. Definitely helped make his little Auto Parts store profitable. The margins on a repair were so much better than the retail margins on selling remanufactured units.
Very interesting Toby. I always wondered what was involved in rebuilding those items. Its not nearly as intimidating after watching your videos. Thanks for the details and clear description of the procedures. 👍
Thanks, I’m still not 100% and might never be, but I can still do the things I used to so that’s good. I made a mistake in the armature lathe video though, I still mis-read things if I get in too big of a hurry and several commenters enjoyed pointing out how I misread the “Tru-Cut” tag on the lathe and said “Tri-Cut” instead. Focusing on things close-up is still difficult but if I take my time I can operate just fine 👍
another way to remove the field coils is if you have a big vice you use a ratchet with 1/4 socket and screwdriver bit, you put the starter in the vice and use the jaws to put pressure on the ratchet to loosen the screw
Say. Did I just see you reuse fold-over locks?? 😜Very cool to see the field coil opened up! These electrical episodes have been really interesting! Thanks!
Thanks, Squatch. I have a '41 BN that came to me with a mini alternator and I have picked up a Delco-Remy generator to, eventually, make it correct and was planning on sending it to someone locally that I know does good work, but you have removed the fear for me to try it myself first.
The copper wire is either coated with enamel (lacquer) or copper oxide. I must have paid attention in my vocational electronics classes back in the 70’s 😅 good content squatch 👍🏻
Enjoy the information about the starter and generator and this episode. Went to a tractor show in Florida. Call the Florida fly wheelers. Today saw a rock crusher similar to what you have. Acme Road machine company, size number 7A, serial number 1616. Frankfort, NY
I have a book printed in the 50s that shows the same steps talked in the video. To determine if any of the electrical parts are any good to reuse. However a live example is much easier to understand than a black and white picture.
Amazing content as usual! I sent my starter and generator out, which I now regret. Really happy that I went with the stock 6 volts, as you would have recommend, just wish I had done my own work. The three brush system works great but will boil the battery as I was not aware that it was adjustable. After backing way off, it operates very well. Something about running your tractor, like it's the 1940's, is really amazing.
Nice series on the generator and starter! As an idle thought, I wonder if the 787 Max 9 doors will be converted to foldover locks instead of castellated nuts? I'm thinking they just weren't secured by cotter pins though.
Thank you for this Toby . I got a couple of these I’d like to go through. It’s good to have it broke down for me like this. This is why I subscribed and thank you for the education.
Knowing your Caterpillar experience, I watched an old movie last night titled “Earthworm Tractors”. My first thought was of you. The tractors used we’re definitely Caterpillar, with a Earthworm name covering the Caterpillar name. It was made in 1936 staring Joe E. Brown. Have you seen it? 👍
Yep, there were two main tractors that really stood out there - the smaller one was a very early build RD-4 judging by the shape of the fender mounted fuel tank, and the main bigger one was an RD-8 (pre-D-8 era) 👍
Did you check the copper post that the battery/starter switch cable goes on, they get cracked where they are soldered to the field coils. I fix a lot of starters from this, if the post moves when the nut is tightened for the cable it will crack. Also, I see a lot of broken starter noses from worn ring gear and or bendix teeth and they try to ride up on the teeth and break the nose.
thanks for sharing. the right tools and information is a great help! the screwdriver you show is still kind of wrong. Ideally the blade should be a perfect square cut profile (not a tapered wedge as off the shelf tools) with a tip shaped to fit the dip in the screw slot. the large flat head drivers in the hand impact ratchets get a bit closer to correct, i think. a 1/4 drive battery impact can help in a pinch but there is risk of camming out and stripping the head. In the out of print magneto book i have, the author recommended buying good quality screw drivers and shaping them on a grinder. Will we see a repeat of this video with X231?
Squatch, I have to ask. Why you chose bearings with the metal seal instead of the rubber ones? I feel the metal ones the lubricant will sweep while the rubber ones it will contained. Thanks for your educating videos, love them all.
Dielectric grease may work for you on those surfaces between components, but that grease is meant to avoid the conduction of electricity, not promote it. "dielectric" is an insulator. Instead, you might consider using a weld-through primer. That material keeps the metal from corroding while providing a good conductor of electricity. Using a process of zinc, nickel, or other plating material would be great, too. Again, I'm sure your method has worked for you and you keep doing you if that's what you like.
@@squatch253 Gotcah, I would expect that's great in electrical connections as designed. I have just had better luck with weld through primer. But again, your experience is what matters to you. I'm just offering mine.
Forgot to add my apologies. I saw the Motorcraft tube and assumed it was dielectric, as I have a tube. I have used copper anti-seize compound, too, but generally, all of that just seems to create problems later when the painting is done.
@rgmoore - No need to apologize, I just took it as an honest question. The grease I used here is Motorcraft XG-12, which is manufactured by Nye Lubricants and is specifically for use in electrical connections that can be exposed to water entry. Ford Motor Co. specs it to be used in many of the airbag and crash sensor connectors where perfect conductivity is required or a warning light will come on - it creates a protective film that allows electricity to flow uninhibited but wards off corrosion in harsh environments. It can very easily be confused with the Motorcraft XG-3-A though, which is the dielectric grease because the outward appearances of the tubes are nearly identical.
All the older tractors I've worked on has all had a delco-remy starter and generator never seen any other brand un til got to some newer stuff. I guess GM did a very good job since everyone used them.
I was wondering whether D-R was actually better or if being part of GM (since 1918) provided an economy of scale. Perhaps the D-R products were no better than other brands but less expensive? Bean counters have always been bean counters. If D-R products were even a wee bit cheaper the engineers would have a difficult time justifying additional expense even for products that were demonstrably somewhat better if the D-R products gave acceptable service.
@@curtislowe4577 they have always worked better than any thing else. All manufacturers choose them because it was parts that worked and could be depended on all the time. Just a little mantance and they seriously they just keep on working.
@@charlescastle5566 Not to be mean, rude or dismissive but that doesn't answer the question I posed. Did Ford absolutely not pursue other markets and only manufactured for their own needs? There were independents who survived the Depression. Did they also buy D-R? What about Studebaker? Did they use D-R or make their own? Were there other manufacturers of starters and generators or did D-R corner the market so there actually weren't other choices? Did Chrysler ever use D-R? They manufactured all their own equipment as far as I know and apparently, like Ford they either didn't pursue other markets or their stuff was not cheaper nor remarkably better. The bean counters always have the final say.
@@curtislowe4577 I think what happened back then was that the other manufacturers knew the D-E had did all the work on the electrical components that they could focus on more mechinal things because they all knew that D-E had did extensive work on the electronics and had a contract to provide them to all the manufacturers. I would say some tried their own but had failures and knew they had a source that would provide electrical components that were the most dependable on the market.
@@charlescastle5566 I read the various Wikipedia articles on the Remy Bros, Charles Kettering and Dayton Engineering Labs Co again. More carefully. Apparently the Remy Bros and Kettering held all the worthwhile patents. The only date referenced for a patent was 1910. At that time patents had a 17 year term. By 1916 both Delco and Remy were bought by the same company which was then bought by GM in 1918. So until the late 20s I suspect that the licenses GM sold enjoined the licensee from selling to other OEMs. By the time the patents expired my guess is that most (all?) of the non-GM manufacturers had come to the conclusion that maintaining a distributor, starter or generator R&D department wasn't profitable. Plus GM's economies of scale gave D-R a low overhead no other manufacturer could achieve. The other high-volume manufacturers (Ford, Chrysler and Studebaker) manufactured their own starters, generator and distributors if for no other reason than to NOT have D-R products in their vehicles. But due to GM's economic clout if anyone attempted to tempt a tractor manufacturer away from D-R GM would drop their price to a competitor. $20 as late as 1960 is equivalent to about $200 today which could be enough to cause a sale to the less expensive brand with the D-R equipment. GM just had to keep their quality high enough to be equal to anyone else but be able to undercut anyone on price. As wrote before: the bean counters always win.
The rock crusher will be snowed in and inaccessible over on the other property for another few months, but after the snow melts I’d like to get back over there and work on it some more 👍
The generator field coil is supposed to have a resistance of 2.2 to 2.4 ohms. The average is 2.3 ohms. So (2.3-2.2)/2.3 x 100 = 4.4%. The tolerance on the resistance is +/- 4.4%. You measured 2.0 ohms which is actually 1.9 ohms taking into account of the bias on your ohm meter. This is -17% low on resistance which means that quite a few windings are probably shorted to each other. In other words quite a bit of the enamel has worn through on the windings. It may not reduce the output, but it will make the regulator work harder and waste more energy in the field to get the necessary field magnetic flux.
You're correct, and if we were still in the perfect-world scenario of having readily available quality new parts for these units I would be buying new coil windings to maintain 100% capacity. But those components are now only sourced from the best of what you've got on hand, and just the removal and installation process bring with it a chance of further degrading them so if they test close to the desired, and like this one are known to have been charging prior, they stay in place as long as the generator output is satisfactory :-)
Excellent video the Delco Remy electrical components from that time frame are very basic but extremely durable. Do you have the props to explain how a international harvester starter spins backward of most starters. Keep up the great videos
Nice video, good information for sure. Have you made a video on How to remove the pulley nut on the Generator? I don’t want to ruin my pulley for doing it wrong.
As a non-mechanic, I appreciate your detailed explanation of the workings of the starter and generator. I have been told on multiple occasions that some engine has a "bad starter". Since the design is relatively simple, I am curious what is the typical failure point of an electrical starter? I also have had "bad solenoids" in the past. Hopefully you will address that part if the IH Model H had one.
the monstrous amps that starters pull generates monstrous heat, and that can cook the insulation on the armature (seems more likely than the stators, if it's not permanent magnet). Squatch didn't really highlight it in this but if you look, the starter's armature has much heavier wires than the generator; if a starter is 'smoked', that's probably what's happened because the insulating enamel burns off the armature. The other common failure mode is a cooked relay contactor, whether it was held in too long and burnt up the coil, or the contacts have arced enough to prevent solid connection by making burnt pits... or the housing is just baked and brittle and terminals have come loose (all failure modes I've seen in various Will It Run videos). something else you may find, although it seems mainly a "Big Diesel" Thing, is non-bendix solenoid-throw starter gears, where the starter relay also has a lever on its armature that pushes the gear into position. This introduces a specific quirk: gear-tooth side-hit won't-start. Seems that the gear has to extend fully before the relay makes contact, so if "it just clicks", the starter-gear teeth are hitting the flywheel ring-gear teeth instead of Meshing.if you can nudge the engine a few degrees so it gets out of that interference, it should engage properly.
Good job you definitely have a gift for taking something I always found quite complicated and making it easy and just so you know it really helped me understand when you had the older generator that you could use for an example and I suppose your tutorial would probably work on any electrical system even if it’s a Lucus Delco Remey etc or would I be wrong on that?😀🇨🇦
I'm curious about the Holt Jr Whirlwind part in the background. Although there's plenty online about Holt, one of Caterpillar's predecessor companies, I can find nothing about that model - nor can I work out what the actual part is.
The Holt Whirlwind is a very old Windmill manufacturer, and that is a counter weight from one of them that you'd slide back and forth on the tail section to bring the top rotating assembly into balance.
Hi Squatch i do hope you see this, i have an old sears i'm restoring, was my grandfathers, wondering where you still can find and or lookup quality parts for an old Delco starter/Gen if you don't happen to have a book?
Hey Squatch, so the generator on my M isn’t charging. Followed your checks and I got 1.7 ohms on the field coils. Also tried the motoring test and the generator motors but when I ground the field coils the speed of the generator doesn’t change. So I’m thinking I need new field coils as a starting point. Thoughts?
In Spain "Delco" is the generic name for a distributor, even some online shops from other EU countries that have their webs translated to Spanish will show you distributors if you type "Delco"
I have a question I have a Ford tractor. Does not have the band over the starter. Where's the brushes are? I know that's probably very important. Because the if you get dirt in there. It's not gonna have the torque to turn the engine over am i correct?
Yes it’s important to have that band on there, it’ll keep out water, bugs, dirt, and grit that will dirty up the whole inside of the starter plus cause the brushes and commutator to wear out much faster.
Questions. Is it possible to convert a starter from 6 to 12 volts? Assuming it’s just different coils or is the armature different also? Do you know if those parts are readily available? I have an M that was converted to 12 volt and I doubt they did anything with the starter. Last one, from the first video, or this one, if the continuity tests fail, is there a way to fix that or is it simply buying new parts?
This is not dielectric grease, this is Motorcraft XG-12 electrical grease which is used to coat and protect any electrical connection that may be exposed to water entry. It is even used on airbag and crash sensor connections where perfect electrical conductivity has to be maintained or a warning light will come on. Designed to be squeezed directly into multi-pin connectors before putting back together. The XG-12 is made by Nye Lubricants, and is not to be confused with the Motorcraft XG-3-A dielectric grease, which has different properties but is in a very similar looking tube.
I do not know, I’ve never worked on either of those models. I recommend posting this question on the Red Power forum, they’ll be able to give you an answer for sure 👍
Cub cadet riding mowers use the generator as a starter not a good idea, they did. The generator can be powered to run like a electric motors, even old welds could be started by using a welder to energize the generator
My late Dad was an Electrical Engineer who spent his career working for Rea Magnet Wire in Ft Wayne,In. They manufacture the wire Squatch is demonstrating in today’s video. My Dad would have loved Squatch’s presentation. Brings back memories of my Dad. Thanks Squatch!
My dad worked there for a while in but left because he couldn’t tolerate the smell of the coatings
Yep, it’s a smell you never forget! Mostly from the laquer insulation coating that Squatch talked about.@@stevecleveland7265
My dad was a trucker his whole life but his home time was spent wrenching on old tractors…..he’d disassemble things for no reason other than the enjoyment of doing it…lol. I know if he were still here he also would be a big fan of Sqautch
Good bro 😊
I love this specific title videos and I'm shocked that you don't have a million subscribers, a million more of us .
Thanks! Sad but true side of UA-cam though - I don’t hit enough things with sledge hammers, cut enough things with torches, or pump enough ether into engines to be a favorite of the almighty algorithm lol
Good 💯
Toby,
I have said it before and will say it again, you are one hell of an instructor. It is the passion for the subject and the clear explanations. The do s, the don'ts, and the whys. You hit them all.
Thanks.
I agree wholeheartedly!
Love these last 2 videos.
Nice 😊
Nice 😊
Nice 😊
Squatch, you have gone way beyond "watch me do it" to explaining "how to do it".
Absolutely awesome.
(although the D2 episode's #cylinder liner reinsertion* "ask me how I know" & I think the #clutch reassembly "like a Ninja" still make me chuckle)
*it was the new piston & rings into new liners vs latex gloves episode
You can read a repair manual, but to see someone that's got experience doing this is, well, 'picture is worth a thousand words' worthy. Thanks again Squatch. Invaluable.
I was very satisfied to get a refresher course on the generator side of the start and charge side of basic electrical. I learned all that in 1974 and hadn't really used it. Having it on video will be a source of information in the future. In Hillbilly term I gots me an edjumacation so now I knows my noughts and gazintos. Thanks Toby
In my regional hillbilly dialect (central-ish Michigan), we would pronounce it "gozintas". 😁
6 of one a half a dozen of the other. Take your pick.@@d00dEEE
Thank you for another great video!
You have this no stone unturned perfection in your work that I find unequalled.
Nice to see you go through these. So many people are so afraid of these components.
That was a great demonstration of the assembly of a starter/generator. You are definitely as much a teacher as you are a mechanic!
Dude, I love attending one of your classes. I learn so much from you, of course, I will probably never use any of the information but you make it look so easy to do. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the rebuilding of the starter and generator.....
I couldn't agree more!
I like the way you highlighted that bearing number and also upgraded it to a sealed bearing and left the original oiling cup in place. Good moves to incress the life of the generator and to keep the original parts and looks. Thanks Mr Squatch....
I can't express the absolute importance of proper troubleshooting and testing and you've have done both exquisitely! Thanks for sharing your expertise and knowledge!
I'll be waiting to see how you go about holding the brushes retracted until the armeture is inserted.😃
Yep that in my book is the most taxing part of the rebuild 🙄😂
Have you ever considered becoming a shop teacher? The younger generation needs a perfectionist like you to share his knowledge with them.
Unfortunately I know several former teachers, and every one of them tell me the same thing - that young people in general ARE NOT interesting in learning any of this stuff. Combine that with severe limitations on discipline that any teacher is allowed to impose, plus parents that will go against anything they try to make the kids do - that means that teaching is absolutely not for me. I would get fired, sued, or both lol ;-)
@@squatch253it’s totally true and too bad because Professor Squatch has taught us all SO much! I was going to teach High School Biology when I graduated from Purdue in 1979. I couldn’t stand the kids back THEN so I know I wouldn’t have survived.
@squatch235 I did the for profit trade school as instructor. Your past instructors are correct. Most are unaware of what they want to do, and they become issues. I now work as a trainer for a car manufacturer. Different "student". Most share the passion or desire to learn. Great video! Your experience and passion shine through!
Hey up mate you don't need to get into teaching to teach, your video show is an ever expanding library out there if people want to learn
In my freshman year of high school I won my school's science project with my presentation of ohm's law. I have a recently retired as a master electrician. And I would love to have the test equipment to work on These old components much in my spare time.
I do enjoy your videos showing the how, why, and what for's of mechanicing. I hope people will gain an appreciation for what we as mechanics have to know for one thing and the investment we put in just to provide a quality service for people. I think we are a dying breed unless something changes.
I understand how it all works, but I still like to see things come apart and come back together.
This takes me back to my yrs work in F&E shop at Ft Hood Tx.( Fuel & elec) Those were some of the examples of what we did to incl but not limited to military application all being 24 volt. Great times and great memories.
Ya know, grandpa always used to tell me that our Allis WD45 used to break nosecones on the starter a lot. He always said it was because he thought the timing was too advanced and it kicked back and broke it. But it was converted to 12 Volts (by him) and WD45s were obviously originally 6. I wonder if he didn't upgrade the bendix 🤔Might need to check that out one of these days
Hi folks, I have a solid electrical background dating back fifty years. This is the clearest explanation of starter and generator testing I have ever come across. Thoroughly recommended!
Great video Toby! You would make one heck of a mechanics teacher. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Cheers
All very good information! I shouldn't need to visit an auto electric shop now, it's all here on the feed! Thanks, Squatch!
Don't forget to sand the brushes in the direction of rotation as the armature were turned or the brushes were replaced.
I'm loving this series I have a Delco-remi generator on my 820 pony start that doesn't always charge and this gives me the confidence I need to take it apart and at least clean it to see if it actually needs a rebuild or not
Also keep in mind that the generator is only one part of a two part charging system, the voltage regulator is the second. Many times the problem is in the regulator if it's an intermittent issue.
@squatch253 I put a brand new voltage regular on it first as it wasn't putting any voltage out at first because that was the first thing I thought of and now it sometimes charges which is good but the battery still runs low after a while and I'd like to fix that so I'm assuming it's just a dirty generator but after watching your videos now I'll know how to look at things and test things ill leave the rebuild up to a pro since I have a guy local that does it still
Loving it. The starter on my 63 Massey Ferguson is a delco remy. I need to replace the bendix. Series of videos is help me a lot. Thanks Squatch. Between you and Kenny K. I got a lot better understanding of things.
Thank you for the plain and simple explanation of it all. Electrical is like brain surgery to me, I'm somehow always baffled but you're explained things perfectly. Always enjoy your videos, specially your in shop videos.
I worked in an auto parts store when I was 17. More than a couple years ago. The guy that owned the store had a generator and alternator repair bench in the back. He had all of the tools you have shown, as well as a couple of the other testers you would like to have. It was amazing how easy it was to fix a starter or generator of that era. He would offer to repair a customer unit rather than having them buy a remanufactured one. He had quite the business. Definitely helped make his little Auto Parts store profitable. The margins on a repair were so much better than the retail margins on selling remanufactured units.
Very interesting Toby. I always wondered what was involved in rebuilding those items. Its not nearly as intimidating after watching your videos. Thanks for the details and clear description of the procedures. 👍
Excellent and very informative video Squatch
Glad to see (no pun intended) you’re back to your old self!
Thanks, I’m still not 100% and might never be, but I can still do the things I used to so that’s good. I made a mistake in the armature lathe video though, I still mis-read things if I get in too big of a hurry and several commenters enjoyed pointing out how I misread the “Tru-Cut” tag on the lathe and said “Tri-Cut” instead. Focusing on things close-up is still difficult but if I take my time I can operate just fine 👍
@@squatch253 Perfectly understood the explanations. Thanks, again.
You do quality work both in tractors and videos.
another way to remove the field coils is if you have a big vice you use a ratchet with 1/4 socket and screwdriver bit, you put the starter in the vice and use the jaws to put pressure on the ratchet to loosen the screw
Say. Did I just see you reuse fold-over locks?? 😜Very cool to see the field coil opened up! These electrical episodes have been really interesting! Thanks!
Thanks, Squatch. I have a '41 BN that came to me with a mini alternator and I have picked up a Delco-Remy generator to, eventually, make it correct and was planning on sending it to someone locally that I know does good work, but you have removed the fear for me to try it myself first.
I love your Prep H videos. They are always very informative. Thanks for the tip on the grease you use too. Just what I've been looking for!
The copper wire is either coated with enamel (lacquer) or copper oxide. I must have paid attention in my vocational electronics classes back in the 70’s 😅 good content squatch 👍🏻
Enjoy the information about the starter and generator and this episode. Went to a tractor show in Florida. Call the Florida fly wheelers. Today saw a rock crusher similar to what you have. Acme Road machine company, size number 7A, serial number 1616. Frankfort, NY
Magnificent Tobie, I learned a lot, yet to do my Farmall Super A generator
Deterioration is the key!
Awesome presentation Toby.
I like those perfect handle style screwdrivers, very cool.
I've always wondered about the innards of those things. thanks for learning me up.
Thanks, very informative video. I cannot imagine ever getting things as clean as your parts are.
I have a book printed in the 50s that shows the same steps talked in the video. To determine if any of the electrical parts are any good to reuse. However a live example is much easier to understand than a black and white picture.
Amazing content as usual! I sent my starter and generator out, which I now regret. Really happy that I went with the stock 6 volts, as you would have recommend, just wish I had done my own work. The three brush system works great but will boil the battery as I was not aware that it was adjustable. After backing way off, it operates very well. Something about running your tractor, like it's the 1940's, is really amazing.
Nice series on the generator and starter! As an idle thought, I wonder if the 787 Max 9 doors will be converted to foldover locks instead of castellated nuts? I'm thinking they just weren't secured by cotter pins though.
lol Senior and I were just joking about “Bring back the locks!!!” when we heard of those airplane bolts working loose 😂
I think it is called "shoddy workmanship". Apparently nobody checking the work either.
I don’t think bolts were installed!
Great video. Glad you are back to work and playing you remain healthy.
Nice simple tutorial. Well done
Truly enjoy your explanations of everything.
Thank you for this Toby . I got a couple of these I’d like to go through. It’s good to have it broke down for me like this. This is why I subscribed and thank you for the education.
Yes Sir, Very impressive and educational. THANKS SO MUCH. 😊
Well done as always!!
Knowing your Caterpillar experience, I watched an old movie last night titled “Earthworm Tractors”. My first thought was of you. The tractors used we’re definitely Caterpillar, with a Earthworm name covering the Caterpillar name. It was made in 1936 staring Joe E. Brown. Have you seen it? 👍
Yep, there were two main tractors that really stood out there - the smaller one was a very early build RD-4 judging by the shape of the fender mounted fuel tank, and the main bigger one was an RD-8 (pre-D-8 era) 👍
Did you check the copper post that the battery/starter switch cable goes on, they get cracked where they are soldered to the field coils. I fix a lot of starters from this, if the post moves when the nut is tightened for the cable it will crack. Also, I see a lot of broken starter noses from worn ring gear and or bendix teeth and they try to ride up on the teeth and break the nose.
Might never have to do it but ... educational!
thanks for sharing. the right tools and information is a great help! the screwdriver you show is still kind of wrong. Ideally the blade should be a perfect square cut profile (not a tapered wedge as off the shelf tools) with a tip shaped to fit the dip in the screw slot. the large flat head drivers in the hand impact ratchets get a bit closer to correct, i think. a 1/4 drive battery impact can help in a pinch but there is risk of camming out and stripping the head. In the out of print magneto book i have, the author recommended buying good quality screw drivers and shaping them on a grinder. Will we see a repeat of this video with X231?
Squatch, I have to ask. Why you chose bearings with the metal seal instead of the rubber ones? I feel the metal ones the lubricant will sweep while the rubber ones it will contained. Thanks for your educating videos, love them all.
CRC Sta-Lube Engine Assembly Lubricant... I'll bet Squatch puts it on his breakfast cereal too ;-)
Are you going to explain how external voltage regulator works on the H that would be interesting.
Title them how you want…. If it’s from Squatch it’s getting watch thumbs up and commented on
thank you for the info it really helped out
Dielectric grease may work for you on those surfaces between components, but that grease is meant to avoid the conduction of electricity, not promote it. "dielectric" is an insulator. Instead, you might consider using a weld-through primer. That material keeps the metal from corroding while providing a good conductor of electricity. Using a process of zinc, nickel, or other plating material would be great, too. Again, I'm sure your method has worked for you and you keep doing you if that's what you like.
That isn’t dielectric grease, it’s an electrical grease used to promote conductivity 👍
@@squatch253 Gotcah, I would expect that's great in electrical connections as designed. I have just had better luck with weld through primer. But again, your experience is what matters to you. I'm just offering mine.
Forgot to add my apologies. I saw the Motorcraft tube and assumed it was dielectric, as I have a tube. I have used copper anti-seize compound, too, but generally, all of that just seems to create problems later when the painting is done.
Dielectric Grease is designed to not create Conductive Scorch during arcing, and reduce arcing in contacts
@rgmoore - No need to apologize, I just took it as an honest question. The grease I used here is Motorcraft XG-12, which is manufactured by Nye Lubricants and is specifically for use in electrical connections that can be exposed to water entry. Ford Motor Co. specs it to be used in many of the airbag and crash sensor connectors where perfect conductivity is required or a warning light will come on - it creates a protective film that allows electricity to flow uninhibited but wards off corrosion in harsh environments. It can very easily be confused with the Motorcraft XG-3-A though, which is the dielectric grease because the outward appearances of the tubes are nearly identical.
Good show!
All the older tractors I've worked on has all had a delco-remy starter and generator never seen any other brand un til got to some newer stuff. I guess GM did a very good job since everyone used them.
I was wondering whether D-R was actually better or if being part of GM (since 1918) provided an economy of scale. Perhaps the D-R products were no better than other brands but less expensive? Bean counters have always been bean counters. If D-R products were even a wee bit cheaper the engineers would have a difficult time justifying additional expense even for products that were demonstrably somewhat better if the D-R products gave acceptable service.
@@curtislowe4577 they have always worked better than any thing else. All manufacturers choose them because it was parts that worked and could be depended on all the time. Just a little mantance and they seriously they just keep on working.
@@charlescastle5566 Not to be mean, rude or dismissive but that doesn't answer the question I posed. Did Ford absolutely not pursue other markets and only manufactured for their own needs? There were independents who survived the Depression. Did they also buy D-R? What about Studebaker? Did they use D-R or make their own? Were there other manufacturers of starters and generators or did D-R corner the market so there actually weren't other choices? Did Chrysler ever use D-R? They manufactured all their own equipment as far as I know and apparently, like Ford they either didn't pursue other markets or their stuff was not cheaper nor remarkably better. The bean counters always have the final say.
@@curtislowe4577 I think what happened back then was that the other manufacturers knew the D-E had did all the work on the electrical components that they could focus on more mechinal things because they all knew that D-E had did extensive work on the electronics and had a contract to provide them to all the manufacturers. I would say some tried their own but had failures and knew they had a source that would provide electrical components that were the most dependable on the market.
@@charlescastle5566 I read the various Wikipedia articles on the Remy Bros, Charles Kettering and Dayton Engineering Labs Co again. More carefully. Apparently the Remy Bros and Kettering held all the worthwhile patents. The only date referenced for a patent was 1910. At that time patents had a 17 year term. By 1916 both Delco and Remy were bought by the same company which was then bought by GM in 1918. So until the late 20s I suspect that the licenses GM sold enjoined the licensee from selling to other OEMs. By the time the patents expired my guess is that most (all?) of the non-GM manufacturers had come to the conclusion that maintaining a distributor, starter or generator R&D department wasn't profitable. Plus GM's economies of scale gave D-R a low overhead no other manufacturer could achieve. The other high-volume manufacturers (Ford, Chrysler and Studebaker) manufactured their own starters, generator and distributors if for no other reason than to NOT have D-R products in their vehicles. But due to GM's economic clout if anyone attempted to tempt a tractor manufacturer away from D-R GM would drop their price to a competitor. $20 as late as 1960 is equivalent to about $200 today which could be enough to cause a sale to the less expensive brand with the D-R equipment. GM just had to keep their quality high enough to be equal to anyone else but be able to undercut anyone on price. As wrote before: the bean counters always win.
These videos are great! Thank you for sharing.
Lots of good information thanks Toby
I need to see these rock crusher work.
The rock crusher will be snowed in and inaccessible over on the other property for another few months, but after the snow melts I’d like to get back over there and work on it some more 👍
The generator field coil is supposed to have a resistance of 2.2 to 2.4 ohms. The average is 2.3 ohms. So (2.3-2.2)/2.3 x 100 = 4.4%. The tolerance on the resistance is +/- 4.4%. You measured 2.0 ohms which is actually 1.9 ohms taking into account of the bias on your ohm meter. This is -17% low on resistance which means that quite a few windings are probably shorted to each other. In other words quite a bit of the enamel has worn through on the windings. It may not reduce the output, but it will make the regulator work harder and waste more energy in the field to get the necessary field magnetic flux.
You're correct, and if we were still in the perfect-world scenario of having readily available quality new parts for these units I would be buying new coil windings to maintain 100% capacity. But those components are now only sourced from the best of what you've got on hand, and just the removal and installation process bring with it a chance of further degrading them so if they test close to the desired, and like this one are known to have been charging prior, they stay in place as long as the generator output is satisfactory :-)
A S253 STUDIOS PRODUCTION.... I LIKE IT ...😊 23:38
lol that’s how I test to see how many people actually watch all the way to the end 👍
@@squatch253 So, I'm proud to get busted...
Great video! I learned a lot.
Excellent video the Delco Remy electrical components from that time frame are very basic but extremely durable. Do you have the props to explain how a international harvester starter spins backward of most starters. Keep up the great videos
Great video as always 👌🏻thank you
Nice video, good information for sure. Have you made a video on How to remove the pulley nut on the Generator? I don’t want to ruin my pulley for doing it wrong.
As a non-mechanic, I appreciate your detailed explanation of the workings of the starter and generator. I have been told on multiple occasions that some engine has a "bad starter". Since the design is relatively simple, I am curious what is the typical failure point of an electrical starter? I also have had "bad solenoids" in the past. Hopefully you will address that part if the IH Model H had one.
the monstrous amps that starters pull generates monstrous heat, and that can cook the insulation on the armature (seems more likely than the stators, if it's not permanent magnet). Squatch didn't really highlight it in this but if you look, the starter's armature has much heavier wires than the generator; if a starter is 'smoked', that's probably what's happened because the insulating enamel burns off the armature. The other common failure mode is a cooked relay contactor, whether it was held in too long and burnt up the coil, or the contacts have arced enough to prevent solid connection by making burnt pits... or the housing is just baked and brittle and terminals have come loose (all failure modes I've seen in various Will It Run videos). something else you may find, although it seems mainly a "Big Diesel" Thing, is non-bendix solenoid-throw starter gears, where the starter relay also has a lever on its armature that pushes the gear into position. This introduces a specific quirk: gear-tooth side-hit won't-start. Seems that the gear has to extend fully before the relay makes contact, so if "it just clicks", the starter-gear teeth are hitting the flywheel ring-gear teeth instead of Meshing.if you can nudge the engine a few degrees so it gets out of that interference, it should engage properly.
@@Hyratelthose starters with leaver to engage the pinion to flywheel we called Rattrap starter's
Thanks for the explanation@@Hyratel
Good job you definitely have a gift for taking something I always found quite complicated and making it easy and just so you know it really helped me understand when you had the older generator that you could use for an example and I suppose your tutorial would probably work on any electrical system even if it’s a Lucus Delco Remey etc or would I be wrong on that?😀🇨🇦
Great video!! Thank you for sharing!!!
great video and great content.
I'm curious about the Holt Jr Whirlwind part in the background. Although there's plenty online about Holt, one of Caterpillar's predecessor companies, I can find nothing about that model - nor can I work out what the actual part is.
The Holt Whirlwind is a very old Windmill manufacturer, and that is a counter weight from one of them that you'd slide back and forth on the tail section to bring the top rotating assembly into balance.
@@squatch253 Thanks for that. Veerry interesting, as the saying goes...
Good Working Sir 😊
I do calibration on coils for ndt , 10% is the tolerance for them as a rule of thumb
Doesn’t that felt ring need a little oil?
Hi Squatch i do hope you see this, i have an old sears i'm restoring, was my grandfathers, wondering where you still can find and or lookup quality parts for an old Delco starter/Gen if you don't happen to have a book?
I try to encourage people to fix instead of replace if possible.
does the coil pole shoes have anything to do with the electric circuit or are they just there to hold the field coils in place?
Hey Squatch, so the generator on my M isn’t charging. Followed your checks and I got 1.7 ohms on the field coils. Also tried the motoring test and the generator motors but when I ground the field coils the speed of the generator doesn’t change. So I’m thinking I need new field coils as a starting point. Thoughts?
Thanks again
What if resistance is too high in a generator? What failure would that indicate?
Good Video
Any good source for parts? One of the brush holder stops is broken on my generator.
Basically just keep combing the swap meets for rebuildable cores, or stop in at the closest tractor salvage yard and see what they have available 👍
In Spain "Delco" is the generic name for a distributor, even some online shops from other EU countries that have their webs translated to Spanish will show you distributors if you type "Delco"
What is the name of the assembly lube?
Very good
I have a question I have a Ford tractor.
Does not have the band over the starter.
Where's the brushes are? I know that's probably very important.
Because the if you get dirt in there. It's not gonna have the torque to turn the engine over am i correct?
Yes it’s important to have that band on there, it’ll keep out water, bugs, dirt, and grit that will dirty up the whole inside of the starter plus cause the brushes and commutator to wear out much faster.
@squatch253 thanks that's what I though
@@squatch253 1
Questions. Is it possible to convert a starter from 6 to 12 volts? Assuming it’s just different coils or is the armature different also? Do you know if those parts are readily available? I have an M that was converted to 12 volt and I doubt they did anything with the starter. Last one, from the first video, or this one, if the continuity tests fail, is there a way to fix that or is it simply buying new parts?
Hi, you talk about electrical grease, is that the sae as dielectric grease? Thanks 👍
This is not dielectric grease, this is Motorcraft XG-12 electrical grease which is used to coat and protect any electrical connection that may be exposed to water entry. It is even used on airbag and crash sensor connections where perfect electrical conductivity has to be maintained or a warning light will come on. Designed to be squeezed directly into multi-pin connectors before putting back together. The XG-12 is made by Nye Lubricants, and is not to be confused with the Motorcraft XG-3-A dielectric grease, which has different properties but is in a very similar looking tube.
@@squatch253 Thanks, not sure that's readily available over here in the UK
Cheers
I order mine off of Amazon, it’s readily available there but I’m not sure what shipping hassles there might be.
So what keeps the sealed bearing from totally from spinning does the flange stop it from spinning
The cover with the 3 screws clamps down tight on the outer race of the bearing.
@@squatch253 didn't think that would hold the bearing
Do you know if you can take a hydraulic pump from a 1952 miccormick wd9 and put it onto a 1952 miccormick super w6, and it still work
I do not know, I’ve never worked on either of those models. I recommend posting this question on the Red Power forum, they’ll be able to give you an answer for sure 👍
Are 6 and 12 volt starters the same with the windings just a different drive or bendex? 🤔
Most times the armature, coils, brushes, and starter drive are all different between the two.
Cub cadet riding mowers use the generator as a starter not a good idea, they did. The generator can be powered to run like a electric motors, even old welds could be started by using a welder to energize the generator