Smelting E-Waste For Gold, Silver, Copper
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- Опубліковано 18 гру 2021
- Continuing to experiment with smelting down PCB/E-waste concentrates from our shaker table to try and find the best recovery method of copper, gold, silver, and other valuable and precious metals from electronic computer scrap.
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The copper didn't drop out until it hit the steel cone, because it was still held in solution as a soluble salt, due to too much free acid in solution. If you run that again with the nails, the result will probably be better. All the nail metal that is eaten up is making iron salts, and when there's more iron left but no more free acid, it will start replacing salts of the less reactive metals, leaving them as free metal.
Now what if he did this with a basic mix? Is he still using the sulfur at the end: 34:24? Or what if he used nearly none for that matter? Would the oxide then reduce to Cu, and oxidize the Fe? He also mentions using a less basic was better for nearly everything in the beginning. You are right though. Too much free acid/base will continue to keep salts as salts
@@matthewcurry3565 He could try putting some charcoal (the good stuff, not "brickettes") in the crucible to convert some of the metal oxides to carbon dioxide/monixide gasses. That's how a lot of metals are recovered industrially, but I don't think his crucible will get hot enough to recover all types of metal. That's probably similar to what's going on with melted sulfur in the mix too. The sulfur picks up oxygen, forms sulfate salts with the various metals, more easily with the more reactive metals, of course, and then loses excess oxygen as sulfur dioxide (probably). I think the workarounds he's trying to perform, due to variability of his results, are largely due to putting the sacrificial iron nails into the crucible at the beginning. It's like putting cake and asparagus in front of a child at the same time, and expecting the results to match your wishes. Some of the desirable metals will never make it into solution in a form that will be replaced by the iron, because the acid and iron are mutually consuming from the moment a mobile acid forms.
@@buckstarchaser2376 Oooo nice answer my friend. I thoroughly enjoyed that simile as well haha.
@@buckstarchaser2376
is it possible to melt in a vacuum and if you can, does it affect the end result?
Thays what i was thinking, especially early in the video when he mentioned affinities between copper and zinc. Under some conditions affinities can differ driving a reaxtion one way or the other, so under the ones he was using, copper had a higher affinity than zinc so more zinc was left over.
I really appreciate how you show the ideas that fail. It’s better to learn from the things that don’t work then from the things that you just just happen to get lucky that they work but you not sure why. That was a hell of a sentence…but, I’m just gonna leave it like that. lol
absolutely agreed
I 'borrowed' our microwave from the kitchen to experiment on quick drying, in cycles, 12" wooden bowls I was carving in green wood in my shop. The process worked great but my wife wouldn't let me put the microwave back in the kitchen. The 'old' microwave became another shop tool and my wife got a new (yes, and better) microwave for the kitchen.
Several metals have a high affinity for sulfur, meaning that they readily form compounds with sulfur. Some examples of metals with a high affinity for sulfur include:
Lead: Lead has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as lead sulfide (PbS) and lead disulfide (PbS2).
Copper: Copper has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as copper sulfide (CuS) and copper disulfide (CuS2).
Mercury: Mercury has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as mercury sulfide (HgS) and mercury disulfide (HgS2).
Nickel: Nickel has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as nickel sulfide (NiS) and nickel disulfide (NiS2).
Iron: Iron has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as iron sulfide (FeS) and iron disulfide (FeS2).
Cobalt: Cobalt has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as cobalt sulfide (CoS) and cobalt disulfide (CoS2).
Manganese: Manganese has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as manganese sulfide (MnS) and manganese disulfide (MnS2).
Zinc: Zinc has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as zinc sulfide (ZnS) and zinc disulfide (ZnS2).
Tin: Tin has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as tin sulfide (SnS) and tin disulfide (SnS2).
Tungsten: Tungsten has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as tungsten sulfide (WS2) and tungsten disulfide (W2S3).
Molybdenum: Molybdenum has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as molybdenum sulfide (MoS2) and molybdenum disulfide (MoS3).
Platinum: Platinum has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as platinum sulfide (PtS) and platinum disulfide (PtS2).
It is worth noting that the affinity of a metal for sulfur can vary depending on the specific conditions under which the reaction is taking place, such as temperature and the presence of other elements.
More metals?
Gold: Gold has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as gold sulfide (AuS) and gold disulfide (AuS2).
Silver: Silver has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as silver sulfide (Ag2S) and silver disulfide (Ag2S2).
Palladium: Palladium has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as palladium sulfide (PdS) and palladium disulfide (PdS2).
Cadmium: Cadmium has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as cadmium sulfide (CdS) and cadmium disulfide (CdS2).
Antimony: Antimony has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as antimony sulfide (Sb2S3) and antimony disulfide (Sb2S5).
Gallium: Gallium has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as gallium sulfide (Ga2S3) and gallium disulfide (Ga2S5).
Selenium: Selenium has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as selenium sulfide (SeS2) and selenium disulfide (SeS4).
Tellurium: Tellurium has a high affinity for sulfur, and the two elements readily form compounds such as tellurium sulfide (TeS2) and tellurium disulfide (TeS4).
I hope this information is helpful. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Please lost those metals in ascending order according to thier affinity with sulfur.
Sure, here is a list of the metals I mentioned earlier, arranged in ascending order according to their affinity for sulfur:
Lead
Copper
Mercury
Nickel
Iron
Cobalt
Manganese
Zinc
Tin
Tungsten
Molybdenum
Platinum
Gold
Silver
Palladium
Cadmium
Antimony
Gallium
Selenium
Tellurium
It is worth noting that the affinity of a metal for sulfur can vary depending on the specific conditions under which the reaction is taking place, such as temperature and the presence of other elements. This list represents a general trend and should not be taken as a definitive ranking of the metals' affinities for sulfur.
A little late to the party but the list above is indeed a good indication as to whether a metal can form a stable sulfide, and indeed if there is a common stable sulfide of a certain metal it can likely be used in some contexts as a sulfide sponge. However, this is not quantitative or predictive by any means. The question you really want to answer here is for which metals is the pure metal more stable than the sulfide. (I.e. how exothermic is this reaction: M + x/8 S8->MSx ) it turns out, the exothermicity of this reaction is known for many sulfide phases and is called the Enthalpy of formation or heat of formation of the sulfide. The more negative the heat of formation is the more stable this sulfide is. That means that if you combine a metal sulfide with a pure metal and the sulfide of that pure metal has a more negative heat of formation than the Metal in the sulfide, then the sulfur should transfer to the metal with the more negative heat of formation provided you get it hot enough and the sulfur doesn’t oxidize in the process. (overall reaction: MSx + n E -> m ESy + M). This could function as a quantitative scale for you to use certain metals as a sulfur sponge. The NIST database onlibe has all kinds of thermodynamic data on most common substances including solid metal sulfides.
If you want to be really thorough then you would need to know the free energy of formation but entropy data is mostly harder to come by for many compounds so Enthalpy of formation (abbreviated *delta*H(subscript)f) is a good starting place. For example Galena (PbS) has an Enthalpy of formation of ca -98 kJ mol-1 and nickel sulfide (NiS) has a heat of formation of -88 kJ mol-1, then smelting NiS with Pb could give you Ni and PbS. However, like I said the free energies may change significantly at the high temperatures that you’re doing your smelts at and in a melt the Enthalpy of formations will be different in the liquid state anyway, so it’s really just a back of the envelope type thing. Don’t rely too heavily on this for sure fire results, it’s really just an indication that it could work potentially.
Cu + CuO ----> 2 Cu2O
Copper reacts with copper(II)oxide to produce copper(I)oxide.
(You need to add nails, maybe not from the beginning but later during the smelting?)
To test this theory, take the slag and reheat it with nails. This should produce additional copper.
Judging by the color of that slag (reddish) i agree that Cu2O was formed and that's where all the rest of the copper went.
The metal coming out of the cone mold was so pretty! I was sad to see it melted again. It was so satisfying to see 200g scaled up to 2kg and get exactly 10x the weight as the result. 😍
Hi Jason, I am not a Chemist or Metallurgist, just a Mechanical Engineer. I would like to toss in my two cents purely from physical properties of different metals and chemicals.
When heated, the mix melts in the crucible. Heavier metals stay in the bottom of the crucible. When poured, once again the heavy metals sink to the bottom of the cone. Right? For this to happen, the mix has to be really hot. If you observe your second, third and last pour, the mix was very thick meaning the mix is near to its solidifying temperature.
I am visualizing that the mix has not melted sufficiently. The heavier metals are not hot enough to flow (observe the last few drops when you are pouring. they stuck to the sides of the crucible).
In theory, the heavier metals are at the bottom of the crucible and are the last to flow out and as temp is low, all of them have not gone into the cone.
What ever heavier metals which flowed out into the cone are not sufficiently hot and before they sink to the bottom of the cone, they solidified in the slag and you could not find a pyramid.
This is just a theory. I am a big fan of yours, I learnt a lot about gold extraction from you. I may not be right but as you are asking why you did not find the metal pyramid, I thought I should toss my two cents.
Thanks for the break down of the reasons for the flux ingredients, that's very useful 👍
Merry Christmas to you and your family. I enjoy how matter of fact you are with everything. It makes you hilarious for those of us that enjoy dry humor. The freezing shots of the molten pours are keepers while you explore this e-waste processing as both scientist and businessman.
Wish I would have known about you when I was running my technology business. Great job!
Really like your honesty in your videos. Makes for good watching
Thank you for taking us Along with you
Hi Jason,
Thank you for the info, I watch all your videos multiple times every second is extremely valuable, thank you for sharing your knowledge and expirements in detail!!
What a learning curve Jason thanks for a wonderful video. Hope you have a wonderful holidays
you have really become a lot more comfortable in front of the camera over the years this video shows that good job keep up the good work
Very cool stuff today Jason. I wish I knew more that I could help you. But I'm learning from you so that is also very cool to learn from someone not willing to give up on it. Thanks for bringing us along. I wish you and your family A Very Merry Christmas this holiday season . It's been a great year of learning.
I love your work, Jason, and your presentation is wonderful. The last smelt had me laughing out loud. That nasty little button at the end is a perfect metaphor for life. I'm not a chemist, sorry.
Jason, you’re still the man! Enjoy your videos!
I'm so amazed at the comments. You guys are awesome. I have so much to learn. I've been try this too from nothing.ive have red salad and no idea what it was. I appreciate all the comments I read them all it's nice having so many back rounds contributing. Thanks Jason! Merry Christmas!!!
You added 75 g of CuO (Mr. 79.5) which is about 0.94 mol. To reduce all of therm with iron, you need to react 0.63 mol of iron (~35.3 g) if it went to Iron(III) or 0.94 mol of iron ( 52.6 g) if it became Iron(II). So in the last experiment, not enough iron reacted.
Agree 💯
Yes. I want to see him start doing more math with molar masses. I am sure there is some subtle chemistry he could be taking at certain steps. The solution to problems is not always mix ingredients together and heat to ridiculous temperatures.
I would love to see him get in touch with some chemistry youtubers like Nilered or explosions and fire. They might have some interesting takes.
@@l.mcmanus3983 i think of nilered a lot while watching these videos. he would be able to tell him exactly how extract and separate things as well as answer the question he asked at the mix portion. good stuff
Good comment... iron nails fir sure. I'd prolly even add a little extra to try to move equilibrium to more copper. Like 10-15% more than calculated weights.
BTW, even many mine operations don't refine their products, they sub that out. Near me is the Golden Queen mine. They make large ingots that are mostly silver by weight, and gold by value. The ingots are shipped to a refiner. It was a refiner in Japan last I heard, but just to give you an example. After refining, the refiner sends them funds based on everything contained in the ingots.
You could try to chemically retrieve the gold/silver first, then smelt the copper based ore by itself. This may help with the electrolysis process too.
Sulfur reacts with all elements except for gold, platinum, iridium, tellurium, and the noble gases. This is right out of the chemistry book. Hope that helps fella.
i think metals affinity for sulfure, and many other elements, could be highly dependent on pH, so it might not be so simple of a chart.
How's your gold mine doing? I would love to see a video of the progress.
It’s off season and blocked by deep snow I think
The special "Reactivity Series in Sulfur" that you're looking for is the same one that you're familiar with. The weird experience you're having with Tin is because tin has weird solubility issues. It's essentially why it's not simple to recycle electronics.
Tin is a tough component. That's why they make cookware from it. Thanks for the comments. Knowing when to add a component to a charge does make a big difference.
@@d.t.4523 Tin is not used for cookware because it's too malleable, and can be melted on the stovetop. It's used in contact with food, such as the inner plating on many food cans, because it's usually non-toxic to humans, and doesn't corrode in contact with most food chemistries.
@@buckstarchaser2376 I saw a metal smith tinning a pot once, so I thought it was a common thing.
@@d.t.4523 I guess its a thing of cookware, but not anything that goes much above boiling point.
@@plainedgedsaw1694 Cool, thanks.
These are great videos Jason!
This was great - I'm all about testing all theories with real life experiments.
Loving your wholesome content!
Add powdered charcoal and a lid to your crucible. The Carbon will react to any oxide pretty much and reduce it down while the lid keeps out further O2
I slole nylons and used it as filter for my 12 V bilge pump for dredge and highbanker...
Works great, no more small stones in my pump...
I do not have an education in chemistry, so no advice to give.
I just love to watch your videos!
When you showed the blend with the copper oxide, I commented to my husband that it wasn’t going to work (and why)… Usually I have to wait much before being proven correct :-D - I know you asked chemical engineers or chemists for advice, so I’ll wait for them. If you decide a metallurgist’s opinion will also do, let me know…
Any chance *we* could ask your opinion here?
13:08 greenish tinge to the flame as you pour the mix into the crucible is very cool
Damn dude you have an intelligent and decent fan base, these comments inspire confidence in humanity.
10:56 that looks amazing, I'd buy it just for the artistic value
One day I forgot what video but Jason threw or dropped that stainless container and it sounded so funny. Now everytime he grabs that container or sets it down I smile.
@Reactivity series and Sulfur:
The reactivity series is only valid for the metal and its ions in water solutions. It can give a hint on the behavior in other domains, but a lot of other effects can occur and are sometimes more important. Sulfides have strongly covalent bonds, so there are more things to factor in.
The reactions of metals and alloys with sulfur are governed by the same principles as metal-oxygen reactions. For many metals, however, sulfur behaves much more aggressively than oxygen. The stability of various metal sulfides as a function of temperature is given by the Ellingham diagram for the sulfides.
thanks you just gave me the key as to what I'm going to look for .
Jason I appreciate you buddy.
21:50 gotta be one of the coolest things I’ve seen in a very long time. As it cooled it became like a tv frame around it, then the top started to cool but still movement in between the circles
Just wow
Thanks for that
I don’t know anything about this stuff. I just enjoy watching it. Have you ever seen the UA-cam Cody’s lab? I recall he did a lot of refining in the past.
all i've to say is ...thank you teacher. ♥️
this was very cool my friend i have just started smelting so this is all new to me
That is very nice to know thanks for teaching us some good stuff to know
I'm wondering about the affect the doping compounds used to make ICs have on the melts? Galium for instance; what does it do to the chemistry?
Look up "Hard Soft Acid Base". Basically splits elements into 4 groups based on how they react.
Another Great video... And you are getting so close to 100K :)
Merry Christmas to you and your family Jason.
I think the thick liquid you poured off the bottom was actually glass. It seemed to act like molten glass in the video. I really enjoy your videos on recovering metals.
Love the pyramid mold.
Would it help if you roasted the starting materials?
WOW 😮... Jason..... 93k subs... that’s quick compared to when you started!! 👍
What is more efficient, the pan water and shake, or crucible method to extract gold and the like?
No chemistry here, but your recipes are intriguing, and like the recycling of printed circuit boards (PCBs) ! Still elusive are the precious metals.
That looked cool oxidized fast too
would more iron surface area increase the reduction rate of the oxides. Perhaps you can get cuttings from a machine shop to add to the crucible. You might see if you can get cast iron versus steel cuttings.
I wonder if a light high speed vibration system would help the melted metals and other materials separate?
what kind of dishwasher do you use for those cups?
What are the nails for in the mix? Just curious because they don’t seem to melt
I do this type of stuff also myself it's very interesting at how much people throw away on a daily basis we need to start making better ways to recycle.
The blender, to break down kitty litter. Nice video and interesting.
سپاس وتشکر بابت راهنمایت
you got some balls the way you move that crucible
These videos may save me. Made a trip recently to Tennessee to do some panning and check a couple spots I researched. I brought home a bunch of quartz that looked good, and it's full of gold. More than I've ever seen, and I've only busted up a few fist sized rocks. I've got some fairly big quartz samples in the 40-50 lb range....all full of gold. Problem is that 90% of that gold is super fine flour gold. The rest is small flakes (like you would expect for the Coker area). There's so much that I'm really worried how I'm gonna separate it from the rock, and then collect it all. I know I'm missing a lot of it. I've used acid, crushed it down to powder and panned it using a magnifying glass, I have a little crucible and hand-held torch etc., but at this rate I should be finished (probably with only half the gold) around the year 2045. I've gotta go another way. I've never tried smelting, etc., but that's probably my route. I've been going through videos, built me a little furnace in the yard, and hopefully whichever process I pick will give me success.
Aqua Regia may be your friend. See Sreetips videos.
I have waste of extract sea water like co2 non isotop to to best takin gold/pgm and rich minerals i ged gold but pouring all metal how to easy to getin green gold and rare earth pouring i exchange use goodmicroba to separate then to get pure Au,Pd and etc how.. thanks to explain to proccess
I think, first main error happened when crushing pcbs. The gold is mostly in form of just few microns thick "plating", often on plastic parts. When crushing and then shaker table some Gold gets lost in the waste fraction. Only solution ( besides incineration and chemical way) is to crush the pcbs much more finer.
Well Jason, I have borrowed from the kitchen a classifi.....I mean a collinder. which is still working well😁
If you check that last one out with a scan you may find it to be pure copper just a guess outstanding video two thumbs up my friend thank you
For metal reactivity. The general trend for sulfide should he similar to oxides. However if you want exact numbers. Look into the gibbs free energy. This is a measure of how thermodynamically stable something is, compared to its elemental form. So a gibbs free energy for CuS looks like -86 kj/mol. The lower the number the more stable the compound. If you are interested, i could try and compile a list of values from the published chemistry literature.
Hey Jason, I see a Princess Auto bucket. I tried to buy some louver dies they had on clearance and they won’t ship to Washington State (or the rest of the U.S.A. For that matter). I was bummed out about it. Anyway, I made the dies instead in the end.
Copper Oxide is a oxidizing agent. Like Lead Oxide. You were reducing all of your metals into an oxide and driving them off into the refractory, or what you call your slag. Once it combined with the flux it dissolved all the metals into itself and thus mad a refractory. On your anode, don't smelt the slimes, if you do you'll melt your precious metals into the tin. There's nothing like trying to get the tin out and away from your precious metals. Take the pm's out first chemically, only other option is trying to slag the tin. Good luck with that. Tin dissolves in alkaline solutions. Maybe molten alkaline?
Is it possible that the copper oxide caused the copper to also oxidize or maybe the copper oxide mix together with the copper hindering the precipitation of the copper? What is in the brown button?
Good work Bro
Jason you should make medal bucket or contraption that rejuvenates cold water on to the pyramid mold.
For saving time purpose.
With circuit boards and getting precious metals narrow it down to where something connects. That is where the gold is. The other side of the board is going to be soldering. Lead. I have 4 lbs of just connections sitting in vinegar and salt bubbling in my garage.
awesome episode Jason :)
Have you ever watched Sreetips videos? He does a lot of chemistry stuff to refine his gold, but the video on processing computer boards might interest you. Perhaps involving some acids would help in this computer project? I dunno. Love the content man!!
Do you ever run your equipment so long to see which part fails first.
Have you tried extra bubble plates to seperate the gold by gravity
That cool neet pyramide, perhaps it has more value as an artwork.
sometimes your pours look quite syrupy, is this because they need heating more or for longer? Would also love to see a pour into a very hot pyramid and continually heated with a slow cooling to see if the elements separate into more defined layers. Might make it easier to remove the top waste metals quicker.
Thats a really good sounding idea I'm sure each metal has its own temp. that it solidifies at so with the slow cooling maybe they would self separate from each other maybe even add a ultra sound vibration maybe the molecules of the same type would adhere and solidify together
@@jaymortensen642 Ultrasound may actually work even if you were joking but doubtful on this scale lol. Molecular agitation would be interesting to see though.
Lol he's dinging the pan with the hammer and dropping the hammer and trying to explain hi tech big word stuff. And it's super funny. I'm glued.
I took my wife's make-up lamp from her vanity (she never used it)and now I use it in my shop. It's pink and every time someone come into my shop they ask why I have a pink lamp, and I always say the same thing, it works.
That's funny Jason's wife knew once her husband got her scale it was gonna get trashed and beat up like a rusty crescent wrench that gets used like a hammer. :)
Hey can you try this. take already recovered gold bar that hasnt been purified and purify it using smelting . it would help me out.
Thanks Jason, I appreciate your organic chemistry experiments. After watching your videos I need to go back to my college chemistry books to remember what I have lost.
How about an update on your mining operations. Have you recovered sufficient precious metals to offset the time and equipment used to extract and recover it in the first place?
Wishing you and your family a blessed Christmas holiday. Peace brother
Very good
Very interesting.
Can you include the approximate cost of fuel and chemicals you have to use to get to the end product somewhere in these?
Given the cost to run the smelter can you break even or make money doing it like this?
Man I watch your program all the time and that was awesomeness to see the finished product you do an excellent job I appreciate just how difficult it is to recover gold from any sort of electronic products. my question is do you believe it is cost effective rather than smelting directly and what are the pros and cons of chemical versus smelting in your opinion
I also appreciate And respect anybody that is looking for a environmentally sound process to recycling all this toxic waste rather than e waste that is being created faster than it can be recycled perhaps the recycling part should be implemented before the creation
Yes Yessssss a NEW VIDEOOOOO!
Hello, Jason. I'm Dustin and have a question, I crushed some stones from my panning adventure. They are mostly quartz and when I panned them down the heavys that stayed in pan were silver in color and acts like gold. It doesn't move around and not mercury, so what could it be?
Silver?
Is that sulfur pure? Or mixed?
Also try 60% Borax, 35% Soda ash and 5% silica.
did you run out of bismuth for cupelling or why did you stop doing it?
what if you add some charcoal powder and cover the crucible? that should reduce the copper from the oxide...
I hope this helps I hope this is what you're looking for I love watching you I never miss anything you do I love your new mind great job all the woodwork you've done look forward to seeing more of you I'd love to meet you in person I have something I'd love to discuss with you
Good!
Just seen the catalytic converter video and wondered if this channel had tried refining Road powders for platinum group metals
Jason Super, like...!!!!💪👍