.177 vs .22 Battle (Episode 2 of 3) - Knockdown & Penetration
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2017
- In the second episode of the calibre battle, Glen & Tom display the difference in the way the pellets hit & disperse their energy at identical range increments.
Damage became a factor later in the trials as the lads discovered that wound channels were present in the impact patches. They still have a few things to confirm and plan to do a spin off later in the year. This is clearly displayed in the video.
Take time to study the matrix toward the end of the Video as its key for the final episode where we put over our thoughts.
Special Thanks to FMJ Gun Shop Dunchurch (www.fmj.co) for allowing us to use their land to make this video.
Check out our website www.shootingandoutdoors.co.uk for a full video list, Subscribe to the channel and Like us on Facebook.
As always, feel free to comment, don't troll. Stay safe & shoot straight.
When I was younger it was always.177 for feather .22 for fur. Personally I prefer .177 for it’s flatter trajectory so easier to get humane shots
Excellent video. Bottom line question “What are you using your pellet gun for; what is it’s intended purpose. In that vain they are both well suited. With a GOOD scope they are both equal for which their intended use happens to be. When an animal is head shot it matters not which caliber was used. If you can’t pull off head shots you need to practice until you can.
This is like the 9mm against .45, 9mm penetrants more but the bigger slower .45 hits harder and dumps all its energy resulting in more knock down power
I use .22 for rats it seems to drop them on the spot but 177 always seem to leave them thrashing around a lot. You get a very solid smack when .22 hit home and the shot placement doesn't have to be perfect but down they go body or head. Head shots are ok with 177 but I find body shots are a bit hit and miss usually seeing them throwing a shit fit for a minute before they become lifeless. Hyper static shock may play a part with .22 being a bigger surface area and that big slap you get on contact could cause a big increase in blood pressure damaging small capillaries in the brain even on body shots. This is normally caused through high velocity but a big slower round can do the same thing because of surface area.
Good point - have you tried hollow point in 177.. If the fpe is high enough and the pellet is heavy with soft lead they will flatten out like a pancake.. If you can't find a hollow point heavy enough then the next best is a flat nose.. Newboy Senior at 15.8 grains seem to flatten pretty decently...
The efficiency is more with 0.22 when the comparison is made with FAC rated rifles. The optimal speed being 900-950 fps in both calibers.
Just to further complicate matters, you can use something like a JSB Heavy in .177 (as I do), which sort of splits the difference between the two. Appreciate your channel and the thoroughness of your tests and reviews. Atb
yes!tTHE HEAVIER .177 WILL MAINTAIN MORE KINETIC ENERGY AT DISTANCE SHOTS SO INCREASING PENETRATION FOR A SKULL/HEART/LUNG SHOT!HOLLOW POINT BREAKS UP MORE TO INCREASE INTERNAL DAMAGE TO KILL QUARRY!
My husband wants to see a test with heavy .177 vs an average. 22
I’d also be interested in that. 16gr .22 is about the max for a sub 12. Be interested to see how much of a difference a lighter pellet in .22 trajectory wise would make. Same with the heavier .177 pellets which are the recommended hunting pcp weights for both calibers.15.89gr vs 10.3gr.
Would be interesting seeing how a lighter pellet did also. I use 14.66gr quite often in .22 as they still give me just over 600fps.
Great job... Very informative!! Thank you!
Quality video and channel, onto part 3
Brilliant, informative series of work. Great analysis. Awesome job, guys. Subbed.
.177 for me, it is then if I need to hunt small game accurately within reasonable proximity :) Thanks for your work.
I've killed small game up to raccoons with 177 haven't seen any reason for needing 22
thanks for your post!!!
Mmmmm... I'm considering changing to .22 from .177, but not convinced yet. I need to watch more. So I've sub'd. Top videos guys! Love your work! ❤️🙏👍
My 177 is a beast. We are not limited to ft/lb where I live so I hit a solid 19 ft/lb with my heavy pellets. Thats enough to kill large pigeons effectively at 60 yards
So if you shoot under 20yrds is it better to have a. 22 or a. 177 with heavy pellets?
I'd rather 1.77 especially if it's 12ftp less drop at distance and gets there faster.
I got an 177 (by mistake) my pall at the gun shop said bring it back if you want. Never looked back. No drop, just point + hit your target. Always a head shot.
I'm the opposite, I got a 177 and couldn't get rid of it soon enough
Agree 👍
At the distance your shoot at the speed means nothing as it’s still instant.
My vote goes to the .20! Wish it had not fallen out of favor.
You could probably design your own .20 pellet (sub 12) for .20 slug (fac) with the help of a tooling manufacturer for precise machining
@@xMrjamjam I live in the states so no energy restrictions 🤟🇺🇸 I'm always on the lookout for an RWS 48 in .20.
As a young lad many years ago I always got talked into 22 for hunting and went for it, now IME 54 I've just treat myself to hw95k in the 177 and boy what a dream to shoot and it does knock down rabbits and pheasants at 30 and 40 yards.
I shoot alot of squirrels at about 25 yards over a feeder with jsb 177 8.4 grn.nearly all pellets are retained in the opposite side of the head in the fir.when I inspect the pellet it is often facing backwards and is deformed.my take on this is a more fragile pellet traveling faster = more deforming ,more damage ,bigger hole ,more humane.have used a 22 aswell but it just did not seem to get there quick enough for me when there heads bobbing about but killed fine..just another point my tx 200 hc 177 seems to hit harder at range than my s410 177 both shoot the same pellet at 770 fps just to give you more to ponder.cheers
That IS something too ponder ... Beats me ... But I will try and suss it out
@Wheely Bin I agree but I'm not the only one at my range who thinks the same .I'm happy to have it disproved this is why we shoot airguns because there so much more interesting thanks.
What would you expect to find if the .177 was producing 20 FPE and the .22 was producing 30 FPE? Any speculation?
There is another factor. That is ballistic coefficient
Pellets of the same design will give the 177 more density and therefore more penetration than the 22.
To be fair the 22 needs to be heavier .
Started out with 1.77 as a beginner when I was a kid but moved onto .22
I just find I have more clean one shot instant kills with .22 with rats etc. Plus I’ve used .22 for years so the holding over etc is second nature.
I got a modified Black Ops shooting at 1450 ft/s it goes through a 3/4 panel and strips the cement pf the wall at 60ft. distance.
that was interesting ! I knew it, I trust my .177 hw 77k
An eight point four grain pellet has pretty much the exact same power as a sixteen grain pellet at fifty yards in a lot of cases the smaller pellet sometimes has slightly more power
I have done the testing myself with a couple of friends and five chronys
I’m of course talking about U.K. sub twelve power
Eleven point six fpe at the mussel to be precise
What is the name of your rifles?
To be fair, equal fpe and pellet weight.. (I believe you can get 15.8 grain pellets in both 177 and 22). I have 3 rifles in 177, one is 17 fpe another is 24 fpe and the third is 28 fpe (which I have in the past turned up to 38 fpe - but shot count is extremely low - less than 5 usable shots).. When turned up to 38 fpe shooting 16.2 grain JSB Beast at 1030 fps - at 200 yards it hits with about 8 fpe - which is plenty to dispatch small game.. And when set at 28 fpe at 200 yards it hits with about 6 fpe. And when at 24 fpe, 200 yards the fpe is about 5.5.. You have better momentum with a 177 (looses less velocity and energy over distances), because is displaces less air up front due to the narrow diameter..
What rifle were
you using and what sights?
A .22 RM8 (11.5 ft/lb ATM [at the muzzle]) with a Hawke Vantage 4-12x50 AO scope set to x10 power using 15.9gn Daystate Rangemaster Sovereigns, and a .177 AAS410 (11.58 ft/lb ATM) with an AGS SF AO 6-24x50 scope also set to x10 power using 8.44gn Daystate Rangemaster Sovereigns. These are the preferred competition pellets for the two rifles.
the .177 is not ridiculous next to the .22?
Try a twenty grain rabbit magnum pellet in one seven seven
Using a gun that’s relatively low powered say nine fpe with a eight point four will be way over the twelve fpe law
Amazing hunting pellets if they suit the barrel of your rifle
They work very well with smooth twist barrels 😉
You must be using low powered airguns. Id be afraid a 20 grain 177 get stuck in barrel. Buy a blowgun and use it. I killed all kinds of stuff with it.
Bro suggest me a hunting pellet in.177 with knocked down ability on 860 fps. My personal opinion is jsb heades in 8.44 grain is best but I'm not try this one pleas help me?
The JSB Hades are getting very positive feedback but I have yet to try them against my prefered pellet. A little secret from me is AA Diabolo Match. I have used them out to 50y with repeatable 1" groups. But what I found was that a flat head/ wad cutter pellet hits very hard and does a lot of damage over a rounded pellet. I used them on rabbit a few years back and now keep a tin to the side for squirrels.
@@ShootingOutdoorsChannel thanks bro for your valuable feedback and your precious time.
If you can get within 40yds of your quarry then the biggest difference between the two caliber's is the person doing the shooting. If i could only use one caliber then it would be .177 and i would use lots of different shapes and weights of pellet if more shock was required.
glad I'm getting a weihrauch HW100 in .20 .. in a test somewhere in UA-cam land a test was done between .177 , .22 & .20 ( firing into a copy of 50 shades of grey ) in sub 12ftlb . surprisingly the .20 ( 20mtrs ) penetrated the deepest , PLEASE explain how this is , I really expected the .22 too come out top at that distance , mainly due too the weight . btw I'd ordered the HW100 before I saw that vid . guess I've got a she'd load of comparison testing too do on its arrival .. with a vast amount of pellet weights too compare ( got .177 & .22,s as well ) and I probably will have a raging nerd on as well ... Chrono at the ready then ... great vid btw .. waiting for 3rd
Hard to comment on the other chaps video without seeing it. It could be that at that range the reduced surface area and higher speed/ weight and increased length over .177 find a niche at a certain range. Could be the book just resonated easier for the .20...It was fairly close at 20y we found with our tests but it was the .22s length that made the difference. Measuring depth to the skirt....177 was buried much deeper and much straighter. Seems to us that its less about weight and size and more speed and size. I'd like to see a very light (8gn) .22 against what is the industry standard 16gn. Maybe FAC is on the cards for the channel???
Shooting & Outdoors Channel
FAC ? .. nahhh I don't think there would be an interest in fac rated guns , as my local RFD owner told me when I broached the subject of .25 caliber and it's really curved trajectory , and I mentioned that that caliber was the preserve of fac rifles , he told me that only 0.5% of rifles sold were fac AND .25 is used / purchased in sub 12ftlb ( from his establishment regularly ) don't think fac would interest many people onto your channel too be honest .. not if 99.5 % are sub 12 users ... looking forward too 3rd instalment ... oh ! I've taken your theory about the .20 on board ... good stuff chaps ..keep it up
I have tried 13 grain JSB RS and 11 grain RWS hobbies in my .22 Compatto. They are fast, with flat trajectory (especially the Hobbies). Unfortunately neither are accurate out of my gun, the RS's being the worst. However, the Hobbies produce much better groups with the Compatto's power set to medium (about 10 ft Lbs). The problem is that at that power setting you get lower velocity, so I stick to 15.89 grain JSBs.
Wilton Lewis
Vermine Hunter tv .. did a video , with Si Pittway using his compatto ( dunno what Calibre off the top of me head ) Target shooting I believe ( usually rabbits , rats pidgeons if you've never watched the show ) turned out REALLY accurate . And little did he realize it was set too medium power .. warning too the compatto , I can see me getting one in the near future ... Recon I'd put it on " medium " for use on my 30yrd range .. seems it would be easily up for it .. and would save air ...
Yes Mark, I have seen the video you mention and Si's is a .177. My Compatto finally became really accurate about 2 months ago for some reason. However last week there was a clang, and I discovered it had gone FAC, up to 16ft LB and pellets all over the place. So back to Brocock again this week. As for the medium setting, I think you would notice less difference between medium and full power in .177 than with .22. However, the medium setting does not save much, if any air. See the Airfective video on how they tune Compattos and they explain this. I love my gun, but it has proved extremely unreliable in the 16 months I have owned it.
Well the age old arguments which to date are still not settled, why ? because there are so many factors that come into play, foot poundage of the rifle, yes I know we are limited to sub 12ft lbs but in Fac versions the .22 will do a lot better being it will withstand the higher pressures than the.177 which can deform and spoil its ballistics, anyway sticking with the sub 12ftlb versions, both are good for hunting quarry, at the right ranges and conditions, and not of course forgetting the skill and ability of the shooter,knowing his or her rifle and how much hold over to allow on distance shots at it's capable ranges, I think everyone knows about trajectories and the fact that the smaller .177 will be faster out of the barrel and therefore have a flatter flight path compared to the .22 heaver and slower pellet, get to know and understand how much hold over or under you need to make that kill shot at whatever your capable range skills are and both can be deadly to dispatch your quarry with a clean kill.
As a rule of thumb after watching your 1st video, a 22 cal pistol is best for ratting @1m to 6m and 177 for plinking @ 3 m to 10m. For rifles the 22 is best for short field targets (>6m to 30m ) to medium range field plinking targets up to 25m. In competing target practice, 177 rifles are better at 30m to 100m because a 22 will struggle with accuracy beyond 40m due to air resistance and gravity effect.
Not if you get it up to or beyond the speed of the .177. If you mod your .22 to store and dump more air than the stock ten pumps, etc., and bring it up to 17-20 pumps, the .177 doesn't stand a chance anywhere.
@@rongwang8757 how do you do that with a springer or gas ram? Rule of thumb 👍🏻.
@@SemperFiParatus Perhaps you overlooked the word "pumps"? Twice? I use a Crosman 1300KT Custom in .22 that is modded up, and at twenty pumps, it will throw a 14.3gr at about 570fps. That is only a few fps faster than a stock 1377 throwing a 7.4gr with the full ten pumps behind it, making it something of a fairer comparison. At that speed, the .22 eats the .177 on every front. Better accuracy, better range, better penetration, better damage, you name it.
And yes, it is still a tack driver at 100m if you have the glass and the skills to keep up with it. The .177 might barely tickle at that range. The .22 will still puncture a tin of beans, fully.
@@rongwang8757 you do know that may be illegal in UK without a valid Fire Arm Certificate?
@@rongwang8757 modding is potentially dangerous if you exceed the legal limitations of the air rifle under UK law.
It is hard to tell any conclusive results without knowing pellet weight and energy from both rifles.. If both .177 and .22 shoot 15.8? grain pellets and both have around 25 fpe the .177 will dominate at all ranges and as the distances get greater then the dominance also increases in favor of the .177 simply because it will retain a greater percentage of original velocity and energy, it also takes less energy from the .177 to penetrate the same as the .22, (.177 can have 3-5 fpe less energy and do the same penetration as .22) however the .177 will have more energy and will penetrate easier and deeper if they start out with the about the same energy..
The weight of pellet is in there as we used Daystate Rangemaster Sovereigns in both cals. A quick Google should get you the weight. Both rifles are kicking out 11.5ftlb +/-0.1ftlb. We're really stuck here in the UK as the majority of airguns are restricted to 12ftlb. So we can go marginally heavier and lighter in each cal. Once you jump a weight either way...I.e. use a 13.5gn .177...accuracy disappears. So really you need both cals. The two key factors I saw in this episode was speed and head diameter. Slow and big struggled to get through the cardboard shell. Fast and small was straight through. In episode 1 grouping in winds...weight was better than size. It'd be interesting to play with what we call FAC (unlimited power) but unfortunately UA-cam reasearch isn't a good enough excuse for the police. As time and hunts go by though...I see more dust on my .22 than .177.
@@ShootingOutdoorsChannel My over sight on the pellets, however, since both are around 12 fpe then the data would be for the most part reliable.. I have seen test online of some comparing 17 fpe .177 against 24 fpe .22 which in my opinion is stacking the deck so to speak.. Or they will shoot a 7.4 grain pellet in .177 vs an 18.1 grain in .22, which is again stacking the deck.. When you even the playing field and shoot a 15.8 grain in both .177 and .22 with similar fpe then that is where you see the results to be more accurate and shows the true potential of the .177.. I think that you would enjoy shooting my .177 Hatsan that can produce 37 fpe with 16.2 grain pellets.. 100 yard and beyond shots are a walk in the park.. (about 12 fpe at 140 yards).. 1/2 inch point blank trajectory from 19 to 50 yards (no more than 1/4 inch high or low) when zero for 23 near zero and 45 far zero yards (zero at both 23 and 45 yards) 1/4 inch high at 35 yards and 1/4 low at both 19 and 50 yards... If I set up for 1 inch point blank trajectory that produces 15 to 55 yards of no more than 1/2 inch high or low impact (20 and 50 are zero, 37 yards is 1/2 in high with 15 and 55 yards 1/2 inch low.. (less than 1/2 mil adjustment).. Can't you in the UK apply for a permit of sorts to be able to have higher powered air guns? Anyway, I enjoyed watching your videos and keep up the good objective testing... Some day I may try and shoot a 7.4 grain pellet - I am guessing between 1400-1500 fps and not much useful beyond 25 yards where it would come back under the sound barrier and develop a bad case of the hibbie-jibbies and shake itself apart.. lol...
Jim have you seen the Modox cartridge powered air rifle based on the Remington rolling block.Utube has a video on it i really think this is the future for air if they can come up with a way to manage the pressure and build a high end bolt action with a cartridge that can be super charged and shoot normal reload's based on speer or hornady bullet's and pointed casting's also just ball insert's.I feel the skirt and the overall character of average pellet's are the flaw that hold's back performance.We have done many test's with just ball and casting's in one off cartridge rifle's that have shown some very amazing result's.Take a look at the MODOX video very interesting in my view of all this air business.
@@vansantsam But in most cases the .22 is heavier and produces more energy than .177. Having the same weight and energy for the two different calibers is unrealistic. You buy a bigger caliber so your bullet weight has a higher peak (or less limited) because of the bigger caliber. You won't see .177 air rifle produce 50 foot pounds but you can see .22 air rifle do that. You don't buy a 50. cal to match a .177's weight and energy.
@@dale6420 You don't find too many .22 developing 50 fpe.. Most of them are between 22 and 30 fpe, and most people who shoot .22 shoot pellets between 14.3 and 18.1 grains with the 15.8 and 18.1 being the most popular.. My Hatsan shoots a 16.2 grain as high as 37 fpe.. I generally set it for 28 fpe for better shot count.. The 16.2 grain in .177 holds its own against .22's shooting 15.8 or 18.1 grain pellets with less drop and faster velocities and more energy, along with easier penetration.. Shoot what you want it is your choice, I shoot a .177 because I think it is a better overall choice.. A bigger caliber is only better if you can have the force to push it.. The same holds true with centerfire.. What you are saying is that a 30-06 has the advantage over a .280 or .270 (same cartridge size, larger caliber), but just the opposite is true where the .280 and .270 are superior over the 30-06.. And yes, you can get 21 grain pellets in .177, and you can even shoot Neilsen slugs from a .177.. If you have the same force to push and you have the same weight projectile the smaller diameter projectile will travel faster because of less air resistance (cuts through the air easier), and overall will have better BC..
I look at it this way 177 or 22 in the head it's dead
If you have them both shoot at same speeds like 900fps you would probably get different results but if you go by foot pounds then I can see the faster. .177 winning. The heavier punch of the .22 does the job for me. I used to kill Jack rabbits at close to 70yards. You have too be very precise with a 177 pellet.
I'm calling shennagians, .. I'm sure Kelly remembers me...
177 all the way never had an issue with wounding or anything with it. Picked up a 22 and found most things i shot just flew off like nothing. Needless to say swapped that in for 177
Live quarry you would get a different readings infavour .22 you get more runners with .177 .
its garage not gair age
I read the comments and nary a word about wind. Nothing against .177 because I have a pump Sheridan. Also, I am in the U S so in the wind I'll take the .22 caliber pcp at 36 fpe, 905fps.
Sorry to break hearts 🤣😂 but 25 cal is the way to go.
I killed a rabbit with a daisy cock bb gun when I was 12. It was the type of gun u cud watch the bb go up and catch it when it fell. Squirrels are the tough sobs!!!
One importand thing that was not considered - Chosing the right pellet for this job :)
Check that link and see how diferent pellets perform at 50 y (kinetic energy & FPS ) you will be suprized :) www.straightshooters.com/air-arms-tx200-.22-walnut.html
I decided 45 yrs ago you got better results hunting with .177 tie that in with better accuracy and that's why that's all I shoot while the law says sub 12 ft lbs.
I've always found that .22 is best for ratting under 20 yards (Although .177 will kill easily) .22 for ratting hits hard enough to kill a rat inside a barn pretty much no matter where you hit it where .177 is more like a needle and can be a clean through and through at close range meaning shots have to be more carefully placed. I use a HW45 pistol for close quarter ratting. Anything over 30 yards needs to be a .177. I've got a 11.6 ft.lb (tested) Weihrauch HW77 in .22 hit a rabbit and bounce off the skull at 50 yards where my S200 in .177 (11.8ft/lb as it has a regulator) can still crack a skull open out at 55 yards. .177 just needs more accuracy which is EASILY achievable on a PCP.
Have you tried a heavy hollow point in .177.. pretty mean little suckers at close rages.. I have a 30+ fpe .177 and shoot JSB 16.2 grain pellets.. It will kill a rabbit further than I can accurately shoot it.. They claim that it takes about 5 fpe to kill a rabbit, with that being said.. this means that the .177 shooting a 16.2 grain pellet at 925 fps develops 30.8 fpe and at 260 yards still is developing 5.2 fpe (enough to kill a rabbit if I could hit it with an accurate shot).. Even a pass thru can create a lot of trauma because of the vacuum behind the pellet sucking what ever is behind it out the other side.. With no expansion shooting a rat with a .177 - the equal ratio would be like a human being shot with an 80 cal and a hole that size through you has got to hurt..
@@vansantsam Hollow points are pretty useless with a sub 12 fpe gun because there isnt enough force to make them expand.
Toys!! A bit of tea and a toy gun......Oh it's the Queen!
Interesting subject because there are many theories about 177 v 22, i'm definitely going to do some tests on meat penetration at longue distances but here is my slant on this for hunting.
First, my hunting is 99% pest control, so im shooting pigeons on farms where the damage caused by pigeons eating and pooping over animal feeds is serious. Because the birds are healthy, eating all that lovely grain , they are quite edible, unlike rats that also frequent farms for food. Where I shoot, the birds are recovered and the breast meat recovered and it's very tasty with onion and lardons cooked in tin foil , tastes like liver and bacon..mmnnnn lovely.
So to start lets explain the tools used. I use two identical but much re engineered rifles that pump so i can regulate the power at will just by giving an extra pump or two. one is 177 and the other is 22cal i use jsb exact rs for the pigeons right out to 75 meters. at a power of 250 m's to 300m's less if a close shot requires backdrop protection. and for 177 i actually use diabolos or gamo expander pellets. Both rifles are fitted with hawk scopes and mil dot reticles..
Ok first some important info about how i shoot. As im going to recover the breast meat, i don't want it full of shrapnel, and i don't even want the crop burst open spilling its last meal and blood over everything. also i don't want to contaminate the area with bits of bird to attract rats. flys etc, something most hunters seem to take little pride in preventing..
So im almost always taking head shots, even at 75 meters, so the most important factor here is precision, not sending a half brick sized pellet down range hoping to knock it off its perch even if this means knocking the tree over.. if you cant hit what you are aiming at with precision then its not going to be a clean kill.
Also shooting a pigeon through the heart will drop it on the spot, and often their perches amongst the beams means it will stay up there on the beam, out of reach and rot away...not good.
A head shot will kill the bird instantly even if it doesn't penetrate, as is its a knockout of such force especially with the 22 that the bird is killed instantly. ok often the pellet enters the skull killing the bird and some are through and through, but there is little blood in the skull, and although the heart might still pump and cause the wings to still flap, this is enough to ensure the bird falls off the beam .
Mostly i use the 22 for long range shots but if im shooting in a small barn and less than 25 meters ill just take the 177, because it's a bit quieter. both rifles have my own design of aluminium anodized 18 db silencers and do most of the kills 177 using the expanders, that are very accurate, even if they don't expand like dumdum bullets the pellet can fully flatten against the skull and fully dissipate all the energy. Some times a frontal shot is an option , perhaps the head is hidden, and here i will first try and disturb the bird with my laser , just enough to get that head shot. but if i cant get the head ill take a neck or chest shot as close to the wing root as possible. I don't ever shoot through the wing. the multiple layers of feathers on a pigeon are like a bullet proof vest and only the more pointed by less accurate pellets will get through.
So back to the above test video, im not convinced about the 177 being better at longer distances than the 22. The argument for 177 used to be the flatter trajectory, and im using a new variant diabolo pellet in 22 that is so flat i can shoot at 35 mag 300m/s and just count down a 2/3rds of the scale at 75 meters..even the exact rs cant do that..and the retained kinetic energy for a head shot is more than adequate. using a heavier les aerodynamic pellet at 75 m like the tests shown here will not retain enough energy, so unless your are using a 400m/s plus FAC rifle and can guarantee the pellet or slug retains a mach 1 plus speed at impact + 1125 fps otherwise the pellet will wobble as it goes back through the sound barrier and not hit where you were aiming at..most likely missing or wounding the game not killing it by hitting a vital spot. that's why i never shoot anything , paper, bottles, tin cans or vermin at over 300 m/s about 1000 fps.
By being able to vary my power on every shot, im not shooting at my max, anyway just 4 pumps gives me 200m/s more than adequate for a head shot at 20 meters without blowing out the side of the barn.. 5 pumps for 250 and 6 pumps for 300 m/s so i can add a pump or two when needed for a longer shot as required with great precision, something that most pcp's won't provide when altering power level while cocked ready to shoot.
So ill do some testing when i get a new chrony, and use some modeling clay, and repeat the tests seen here. although this is an old video the questions and answers are still current topic..and worthy of more investigation.. All the above is relevant to pigeons and not rabbits or other fur animals. as for coypu, ill only use 22LR, but that's a different discipline. I don't use an air rifle for that when i have better tools available, that guarantee a clean kill even using iron sights at up to 50 meters .. keep shooting and be safe.
It just amazes me how many people just do not understand energy transfer. After shooting competitively here in the states and hunting with 20 ft lb+ guns for 3 decades. .22 caliber has the disadvantage of just being heavier from the start. The heavier pellet is terrible at pellet deformation. .177 is awesome at deformation and energy transfer. .177 with light, hollow point or wad cutters rarely over penetrates. The same could not be said for .22. Over penetration is just lost energy. So, if you are hunting small game under 50 yards, the .177 has a flatter trajectory and better energy transfer. .22 is better reserved for the bench rest crowd or larger game animals like raccoons. And for those who do not shoot all the time, .177s flatter trajectory is easier for the casual shooter to deal with. And, it is undeniable that .177 is just one of those magic calibers that is very accurate.
Rampant nerdon😂
That stupid music craped the video
Your music is too loud.
What is this?
How fast are you shooting the .177 and .22
In comparison it would need to be at the same speed.
Penetration means nothing for targets and definitely not for hunting. The .22 is better and always will be better. It’s just facts. Pure simple facts.
So how do you get a 12ft/lb limited .22 using mid weight pellets to do 800fps?
Shooting & Outdoors Channel
Exactly my point. There really is no fair comparison here. Both guns would need to be at the same speed, in order to see which is more effective. A .177 might penetrate better but when is that ever a good thing?
You wouldn’t take a Moose with a .223 caliber rifle would you? Hell no. It’s been proven and tested many times over and over again. The bigger .22 caliber for air guns will always be better for small game. Targets? .22 is still better. It retains speed during longer distances, less likely to get blown around in the wind, etc etc.
Why is this still a comparison? It baffles my mind. I mean if .177 pellets were SO much cheaper then that might be a reason to but a .177, but the ammo isn’t cheaper and there is actually more variety in .22 caliber.
There just doesn’t seem to be any valid reason, or anything to justify in this video. Because of the guns you are allowed to own (wherever you are) already makes your testing so limited and false. Because MY .177 and .22 will always be better then YOURS. YOU SEE? makes no sense
@@chrisreilly4006I think your comparison is way too big and for an everyday UK airgunner 99% is irrellevant. We just don't have that freedom/ luxury. I did do some work in January this year with heavy .177 and light .22 (both in 13gn give or take) with the 12ftlb airguns. .177 was a shotgun grouping at any range and .22 was good only to 40y. Speed matching with 12ftlb doesn't work so your back to the individual traits of each cal when set to 12ftlb using mid weight pellets. And this set of videos shows those traits clearly.
@@ShootingOutdoorsChannel Why would you be limited to a 12fp charge behind the .22? A modified 1300KT with high performance ported valve, enlarged transfer port, modded springs, and 20 pumps behind a 14.3 gr hollow-point should get you up to speed quite nicely. Deadly even at 100m, far more so than a .177.
@@rongwang8757 that is illegal in the UK. 12ftlb is the limit or you go to prison.
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You guys are limited to 12 ft lb energy??? Use wrist rocket slingshot or shotgun. I have an 1100 FPS 22 coming today.Which will actually be around 900-950 lead But that would kill a rabbit for sure.I dont kill animals anymore. I killed so many when I was young I have nothing to prove. These airguns really set the hook in you tho. Look at airguns of arizona PCPs 30 cal up tp 50 I think. You will pass out when you see the price.
Bad comparrison. Without knowing fps it doesnt matter. Basic common sense
Are we talking at the impact end? or at the muzzle? You have the ft lbs referenced in episode 1 as well as the pellets we used. Rounded at the muzzle for .22 sqrt((11.5x450250)/15.9) = 571fps. For .177 sqrt((11.5x450250)/8.44) = 783fps. I don't really know what this would prove though impact end. Both Cals will do the job on quarry at all these ranges we know, and have seen on other YT videos. But how do each react to a common material is what we are getting at? I am working with Brownell's for a video next year - I'll make sure I explain why fps would be just another reference statistic in this video. Is that OK?