Top 5 Most EXPENSIVE Modern O Gauge Train Engines?!
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
- This week we are looking at some of the O Gauge engines that are making headlines in the secondary market. Excitement and demand have been building around these models. What are your thoughts?!
Enjoy!
_About Me_
I have been collecting O Gauge Trains all my life and enjoy sharing the hobby with others. This channel is dedicated to sharing O Gauge Trains and Experiences. I enjoy collecting trains from all eras and learning about the history and influence that model trains have had for generations.
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I'm glad they chose to render a Berkshire steam locomotive. You need a superpower locomotive in order to get to the north pole on time. Plus a little magic. Loved it when the house shook right before the train pulls in. Nothing like a steam locomotive.
I agree, I'm a huge fan of the polar express movie, and I've been wanting to get the train set of it
I might see if I can snatch the ho scale set from Lionel.
I mean, they couldn't really change it to any other locomotive because it would stray away from the original book and real life inspiration
The fact that I can see a guy talking about trains about the size of my foot to my chest is entertaining, keep it up
I am sticking to buying MTH. They have better prices in the Railking line. Lionel has gone too far with prices.
But they are no longer around
in the secondary market MTH is probably cheaper. At the moment new MTH is not significantly cheaper than Lionel probably because of all the external factors driving up prices (50 year high inflation, shipping issues, labor issues, shortages of a ton of stuff, etc).
but why?
This is kinda why I still to traditional postwar and MPC stuff. I look at all the modern stuff and think "How can people afford these things?!"
I really enjoy MPC and Traditional as well! I actually ran my MPC trains all weekend
Seeing that thomas in the background reminds me: Percy and James have gone up in value, I got a killer deal on almost the entire range of lionel thomas and the more I see them for sale, I see them go for $100, $180, $300 it's insane for starter engines.
Great video! The hotdog challengers secondary market prices was definitively a surprise considering how many people hated it when they first saw it in the book. I love how that scheme looks on the new FEF.
I love that you have every one of them that puts you as the top five collector
what I find funny about the Polar Express is how Lionel just recently released their 2023 catalog and what is front and center but the Polar Express for the 20th anniversary of the movie with 3 legacy line locomotives with two exclusive color variants, a locomotive and carriage set and a new track and train combo set
Hey Chris. Great video! All great steam engines! I am so glad I got the scale Polar Express when it first came out. It is such a crowd pleaser!! I loved watching all the kids faces light up whenever I would run it during Open House weekends at my train club.
Crazy is right, way beyond my pocketbook. Every train shown is beautiful
They are some unbelievable prices Chris.
Bet you are glad you got them when you did!
Enjoy them!
The secondary market is a blessing and curse. If you are really desperate for a specific engine, you could always go with something a little older as an alternative. For example, the Lionel JLC Series Big Boys released back in early 2000's are a pretty solid alternative to the Vision model. While it lacks a lot of features such as the smoking whistle, it's still a very well detailed, and running model. Same could be done with pretty much any other engine mentioned in this video. Sure the model may not be as up to date as the latest and greatest but, it will more than likely save you some money and headache in the long run.
The JLC Series really is an excellent alternative. I think you just gave me another video idea!
@@RBPTrains i have a request if you can, can you show the model 1935 blue comet new jersey shore line?
The hot dog with the auxiliary tender is at the top of my Holy grail list!
I couldn’t afford larger scales ho scale is already a budget buster. To complete my layout at this current moment it’d likely cost an additional 10 grand maybe more. And it’s about 60% structurally completed, with 2 of the 3 decks mostly completed, the third not started, and the two decks have mostly completed track work, and first layer scenery. As for rolling stock and motive power, after 15 years of collecting mostly all 60-90’s BN SF and Sp diesels, to now flipping to only 1900-1940’s rolling stock and motive power it’s a lot. So anyone on here wanting to trade small steam for that era diesels I’m highly interested
Fantastic idea Chris! Very well thought out and a great overview on a interesting topic. Never thought some of these engines would give you enough money for a used car or bills for a house! Haha!
All are absolutely fantastic models, some I'd consider lionels best of the last decade
Thanks MattyC!
Chris, don't think prices will get any better. Do you? Video is great brotherman!! 😀👍😊
All I can say Chris, WOW!!! But the five you mentioned are the top 5 by many people, interesting!
Absolutely fantastic! I don't even know where to start!
This is brilliant. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching Randy!
I learned the same lessons u did....if u see something in the catalog, go for it and ordered it.... My dealer has told me u have about month to decide if u desire something... Keep the videos coming!!!! My son and hope we run into u at York!!!
Hope to see ya there!
Hi Chris. Thanks for the informative research. Love all your videos and your layout. Can't wait to see your new changes.
Thanks Robert! The video series on the rework is coming next month :)
I have always wanted an HO scale big boy for my layout I have the bachmann DD40AX number 6900 and having the big boy would be a perfect match up for it so that I could run them side-by-side but the big boy is going to need a big boy of a wallet
Loved the Thomas train in the back
Great video. The secondary market has truly gone nuts but unfortunately hasn’t everything else as well!
Even MTH proto 1 engines are now going for insane prices. MTH Pennsy T1's with PS1 still routinely go for over $800, and more often then not they don't even have a BCR in them. I got mine for 600 on a auction site along with 2 Premier NYC coaches. Probably saved a good 3-400 bucks altogether with that purchase.
Even the controller systems both Lionel and MTH are through the roof. Over $1000 for the Lionel cab 2 remote and MTH TIU with remote, it’s insane when the originally sold for $300-400.
What ?
Too expensive
I do wish I had been able to preorder the hotdog train. I have an ailing B&O camelback in the shop at The Train Depot, waiting for a new board, also building my wife a train table/layout for her 2020 Halloween set that she can put the Christmas tree inside of. Se wants to get a Christmas set as well
The engine's you displayed are truly masterpieces. They don't fit my budget. I can recall a message you sent to me once. That's not the purpose of train collecting. It's the experience.
I buy LC plus die-cast Engines and Tenders . My LC Plus NPR Hudson engine set (my favorite) and mixed spooky Halloween cars have been waiting to howl at the moon. It's time of the season to start.
All about the experience. Despite the hype around these 5 trains, there is so much to explore and enjoy in the hobby!
they don't fit anyones budget, unless you own a hobby shop or ur dad is rich
The secondary market can be brutal on lionel and mth. I have several of the mth WM class M-2 challengers. One in rail king and 4 in the premier edition. The one premier version that gets the most questions is the actual prototype from mth. Some people have offered close to stupid money for it. This one locomotive is one of the Crown Jewels I have.
Great video! I would love to see a top 5 most hyped diesel locomotive countdown, be interesting to see which one would be top of the board there!
Make a Diesel video Chris.
I’ve never pre ordered a thing in my life until January. I preordered the special run Southern bay window caboose from Legacy Station.
You know it’s very very hard to get model railroad trains, locos and assets here in Mexico is awfully difficult and expensive. You’re lucky to rely on the dollar, support is really needed here.
Fascinating to peek at the market for a different scale!
I collect HO and OO. My most expensive engine is my Athearn Big Boy at $650.
My most expensive OO model is the Hornby 2013 USA Tour Flying Scotsman, paid right around $500 for it.
You certainly made my wallet feel a lot better about itself for this lol
Yeah, new scale O, especially big steam, is not cheap. IIRC the MSRP on Lionel's upcoming Vision Line N&W Class A is $2100. Most dealers will give you a slightly better price if you pre-order over retail. Lionel went to a Build-to-Order system about 5-6 years ago, so dealers only order what they think they can sell over their pre-orders. The result has been less XS inventory and, therefore, even higher prices on popular items.
Haha! There are some high value H O Scale trains too from what I have seen. :)
Sometime when you got to have it you got to have it and pay eBay prices but unbelievable amounts on those engines Lionel top self engines are like the Harley Davisons of trains Great info Chris
After seeing so many of these listings, I just had to make a video on it. Wild!
Excellent video topic Chris! Thanks for sharing your insights with us
Thanks my friend!
Great video. It’s certainly a sellers market right now, especially for quality trains.
Same thing happened in the 1980s, you could flip Lionel all day long, the 1983 daylight set went for crazy money.
Extraordinary video Chris 📹 👏 👌 God bless you and your family
Thank you Eric!
As someone just getting into the hobby and whose first purchase is the VisionLine N&W 1218, I feel like I should just sit on it and flip it in a couple years. I'd like to pick up some older engines but not for these prices. Thinking I should either drop the hobby or switch to HO.
HO! Oh NO! 😵💫
Listen, depending on what you're looking for or are willing to compromise O Gauge doesn't have to be expensive. Check Chris' videos on MPC and post-war Lionels.
Certainly, they don't have all the "bells and whistles," no pun intended, that the current high-end engines have, but they DO have the bodacious table-shaking presence Lionels have always had. I don't have any of the high-end stuff, can't afford it and I'm not sure I'd go that way if I could, but I love my classic old conventionals! 🤩
I bought a K line semi scale big boy it was delayed until 18 months later a box showed up on my doorstep with the engine. It was all a of $400. Like all of the 027 locomotive it with scale down but proportionately looks good it was not made to be an investment or a commodity it was a train made to be enjoyed. When I put back up my 027 under the layout layout I might just take that engine out of the box and run it.
I enjoyed the video as I always do with your content. It just reminds me why I have never start collecting in volume any scale items and stick with tinplate/semi-scale (using tinplate in the 90's term).
You really should try and make a series for people how want to make a high-quality layout like yours
Thank you! I would check out folks like Chris Trains and Things, Norm or JDStucks. Their layouts are insanely well done compared to mine :)
I think the high prices on any gauge of the trains that are coming out is ridiculous. It is scaring a lot of the new people getting into it because they either can't afford it and it's almost like a house payment. I watch a lot of your Channel RBP and I watch a lot of country bunkers Channel and a new one i just found Audemus Trains I know guys are all O gauge but I think you guys are really funny and you have a lot of awesome trains. I hope one day that i have a lot of different trains in my collection
It is a crazy time for sure! Thanks for watching! Bunker is a riot! Johnny cracks me up as well with his skits
Hey Chris, Thanks for that. Was a good video.
Should do a MTH List. One of my favorite videos in awhile. Don’t own any of these engines and I want to get some big steam into my fleet.
Great list! I can’t believe what the Hot Dog Challenger goes for!
I just was at a local show. And I saw a rare Ives engine and tender. Both original and when the owner told me the price and the amount that are left. It was hard to believe. It made me think of this video.
The worst purchase I ever made was for a Lionel Lionchief RS 3 pos I came with manual couplers, no smoke but they did generously add in the revers lights.
What a great video!! I was surprised to see if a few of my engines made the list, hahaha! Like many in the hobby, I often look at places like eBay for trains on my wants list, but never to track the costs of engines I have, mostly cause I have no interest in selling them. I’m sad that I didn’t get the 49er when it was originally sold. I actually was in the minority in my train shop of guys who actually thought the paint scheme looked really cool. But I didn’t order it, deciding to go with a prototypical challenger to run along use my Big Boy.
That 49er was unexpected!
@@RBPTrains it really was!! If I coulda afforded it, I would have bought both challengers, hahaha!
Off topic but have the in-cab video cameras’ performance kept up with that of regular digital cameras and camcorders.
Aldo, can you get engine sounds that feed into a head set? I got to sit in the Louisville & Wadley’s ex-Southern SW-1 as it idled and the surround sound and vibration were incredible.
I’ve got the 49er ES44AC, bought it from Trainz, and I’m glad I bought it as soon as it came available! Today you can hardly find it on eBay! I hardly ever run her, because of how hard it is to find! So replacing it if it were to break or something would be a nightmare for me.
The price back in 2004 for the first generation of polar express train set was around 250.00 to 300.00 dollars for lionle is what I paid for mine.
That's the time I was working at a hobby shop.....this set was the 0-27 set and not the scale one he is talking about....
@@trainandtruckmodeler786 OK cool and thank you, those passenger cars and cqol tender with the talking sounds from the movie are what I am looking for to complete my 0 27 gage polar express train set. The one train shop I have gone to, the guy has some stuff i am looking for, but the prices he puts on each used and brand new is way to high of price. I bought a used observation polar express 0 27 car that someone decided to modify it and put the people that are from the movie on the back and it is the black girl and both of the boys, one is Billy and the other is in the blue robe. And also the person that modified the car also put in a rear working red light and a working white light under the roof of the car where the people are at so you can see them. The price i had to pay for this modafiy used polar express observation car was 150.00 plus tax. I think that is to high of a price and I feel that he is price gouging and I think that he feels that it brings the value up to the car, the people and the deck are all hot glued back on with a hot glue gun. I do not go there to that train shop very much because his used prices are outrageous and also some of the different cars that are used and partly broken to the point of not even putting any money into fixing them at all.
Super. Hello from the Tracy Mountain Railway in Colorado. 💙 T.E.N.
You and all your UA-cam buddies by the power of the internet have brought the hobby back by leaps and bounds how are you your family your little ones I have one question the date for York this is Victor New Jersey I missed you buddy you make me laugh
Prices on the secondary market are ridiculous! I use to buy a lot of trains on eBay but the rise in prices and shipping has made me take a step back. Tmcc engine’s that are 15-20 years old that are not even highly collectible are commanding full blown retail prices! Simply crazy!
When I was a kid, I had a membership that gave me Lionel calendars and this special magazine they produced for kids. Most of the catalogs just had order numbers and phone calls for the products. Only the items that were constantly getting reproduced had prices. Unrelated to this membership, my grandmother went to a train show and was gifted a calendar from roughly 1997. That’s when I realized just how expensive O Guage trains could be. In 1997, some full passenger sets were being sold by Lionel for near $10,000.
Lionel is re-releasing the 49er Challenger so I just may have to scoop up that one too, apart from my other pre-order *hint hint* fantasy paint scheme🤔 Thanks for sharing once again. Always entertaining, never disappointing 👍🏽
That 49er Brass Challenger is going to be great! Good to hear from you David!
@@RBPTrainsLooks amazing in your vids. Always great to hear back from you Chris! Keep on chuggin'...
Being that Lionel is bringing the Big Boy back again. I would imagine the original VL piece may drop in price, similar to the SF 2-10-10-2 I remember seeing those a few times on Ebay for alot more then MSRP. Great video Chris. The one I would have loved to pick up when I actually had the chance, was the USRA Pacific End Of The Line Halloween steamer.
I agree! The VL Big Boy should drop and become more available on the secondary market now that we have a new version on the way. I really wish that USRA Halloween steam engine was easier to find!
Great video Chris! Keep ‘em coming. Why doesn’t Lionel offer more production run’s of their more popular engines?
Love to have some of these engines but I couldn't imagine what the repair cost would be if something like the circuit boards went out.
I like getting some of the older TMCC and JLC models and then upgrading them with Legacy. For example, I have a JLC C&O H7 from 2004ish. It has all the detailing of the newer Legacy model. The Legacy model however, does not have whistle steam which is a favorite feature for me. When I got it upgraded, I customized the request to add whistle steam. Chris - you shouold get that 3rd rail Yellowstone upgraded to full Legacy - WOW!!! as beautiful as it is now, imagine the enhanced performance added to it.
Hi rbp trains I love your video about hyped trains it is very lovely and especially
I honestly thought that the Lionel 115th Anniversary Nickel-Plated Berkshire would be on the list, especially considering that it retailed for $2,000.00 when it was first released back in 2015, and only 250 were made!
I like your videos Chriss , the one that may be worth what they are asking is the NYC Niagara , I think some of MTH engines are really going crazy and hard to get ,when you log on dealer sites there are way too many Lionel,The Vision line is in its own .
I do wish Lionel would get real sound files , that’s what separates MTH from Lionel…..Nice job on the Videos!
This is happening in other scales too. I model in On30 because On3 is just outrageous in price. On3 brass C-16s can run over $2K. I have a favorite On30 locomotive and I built a fleet, but only because the prototype narrow gauge railroad I follow had five Baldwin C-16s. I have picked up seven models. Broadway Limited Imports produced an On30 C-16 in the 2004 -2005 time frame. As far as I know it was the only On30 model they did. Those are equipped with QSI DCC with sound. BLI had a Blue Line that was DC with sound. You may remember the Christmas theme steam engines. I was buying C-16s, in different paint schemes, right at $200 or less. Once I get those, I strip out the old QSI DCC components and upgrade to Tsunami 2200 Steam 2. Two I have are the Christmas theme and will be repainted black and weathered. However, lately I am seeing the same BLI C-16s asking price at $379, $459, $579 and recently $600. They must think there is real brass in that one. Most of these BLI C-16s are shelf queens. They enhance any track flaws. You have to tune them and tweak your track for those to run well. However, I agree with you about the secondary market. It is going like the used car market did.
Oddly enough I actually haven't seen this in G-Scale. Some collectable items, like the LGB Golden Spike set or some non-live steam Asters, are selling for around retail, but most of the stuff on the secondary market is generally selling for what you'd expect for typical used prices. There's also a lot fewer shelf queens and a lot more "properly" used items. I guess there's just a different hobby culture with large scale.
The last one is super cool
I have the G-Gauge Polar Express set. It’s pretty old too, my engine doesn’t work anymore so I had to get a replacement.
I think the tri plex will be the next big ticket item cause it's unique with extra drive trucks under the tender and is a beautiful engine I specially like it and the front end on them
i think when the atlas mp36 and metra cars come out for ho scale the price on the market will sky rocket pre orders got very close to sold out
The Lionel 990 all the transformers and the MTH tiu are crazy prices too…
Very interesting chris..
That’s kinda the main issue with me and O gauge. I recently got into O gauge coming from N scale because I’ve always wanted a bigger scale and I even purchased a MTH GP40 in Florida east coast scheme but trying to find anything else at a decent price means spending upwards of $400. I’m gonna be sticking with N scale as of now and wait to model more O gauge stuff especially with a new Kato n scale big boy coming next year.
Just get ho scale
@@rjharmonproductions Well I really enjoy N scale and have invested quite a bit in N scale so I’m gonna be sticking to that but yeah HO scale looks great
Yes you can get used ho diesels for 20$
Why it's just as bad
@@trainandtruckmodeler786 well they are used but are still very strong after some maintenance
enjoy it thank you
I would do just about anything to get my hands on one of the black Vision Line Niagaras, even though my salary keeps me on a teenager's budget.
Definitely one of the most beautiful locomotives I have ever seen, bar none.
When I picked up my Acela I was talking to the dealer about desirable sets. He mentioned the boston and maine E8 passenger set from a few years back. He told he could buy mine back at MSRP and turn a profit. The high end sets seem to really hold their value. I bet that grand canyon steam passenger set will be a real hit on the secondary market in about 2 years.
The Grand Canyon set is really cool!
I'm surprised about the hot dog locomotive since Lionel is making another release. The scale sized rolling stock is also going for higher prices. Take for example what I consider the #1 wanted freight rolling stock is the Atlas O TTX Berwick. I seen those sell for $200 and up. The moral of the story is to make sure to pre-order or you just may pay more later on the secondary market.
Those Berwick cars have been trending. Agree 100% about pre-ordering!
Great video Chris! I would love to get a Polar Express.
I hope they make them again. Great train!
That’s quite an impressive setup. I just recently started an O gauge layout. Would anyone have any tips or pointers on how to add on to my layout? I don’t really know where to go from my current loop of track. I am currently using the lionchief control system. I am considering getting a mikado to supplement my f7.
The original prices are almost as much as I paid for my first car. The aftermarket prices are just plain nuts
One question. Do you have any on30?
Good question. I do not have any at this time.
Hey man, love then videos!!!
Thanks for watching!
I have a connection to an Original BIG BOY ENGINE and Tinder. Original box...never been run on a track.
It's sitting in a trophy case at a local store. I'll check the price ..tomorrow!!
i collect mostly traditional but was really longing for that SP blackwidow tunnel motor . as a college student on a very tight budget i had to pass on it. hopefully i can find it again in the future for a good price
The time will come when you can afford one, so put $2 a week in your train jar as from today and you will soon have one.
You will find one in the future my friend!
thanks to Galaxy Railways for helping Big Boy become popular and contributing to the Big Boy popularity
I would like to see more of these list videos, maybe like top 5 best selling legacy engines. I'm not sure if data for that would be available though
Werent these all legacy ?
@@josephholtrop5535 yes, but I was wondering if there was any data for engines that received the highest number of preorders when available from the catalog. I'm not sure if there's really any data out there for that
Would be a great idea! That data would be tough as it would really need to come from Lionel.
Yeah dude the price people are asking for the 1225 is nuts! I’ll just wait for the 20th anniversary.
Even though I don't own any of the listed engines mentioned in this video. It would explain why my ebay listings (mostly just used rolling stock) have been selling faster then usual? I guess its a good thing for the hobby to see such a strong secondary market!
It's ludacris in all scales. Sellers put a $35 frieght car up for bid beginning at $10, and on day one of six its up to $50+. You can look sometimes and see the same buyer will make multiple bids of large increments, and may be the only bidder for the first few days. Sometimes its questionable if some of the sellers, and bidders know each other.
Once I had my eye on an ho scale Ns 4002 for a bid and it was like 60 dollars but it went up to 100 then 600 then 1,000. THE ENDING BID WAS 8,000 DOLLARS!!!
i'm currently an L Gauge dude our 8 Wide's can get hella expensive sometimes especially big complex steam engines
I’m happy. I just picked up a polar express for 550.00 in the box never opened! I thought I was over paying! 😊
Funnest train I have ever owned! Yay
The scale ones are more fun
@@Craiggg12345 I’m just moving out of post war.. what is the difference? Other than size.
At 6:47 you can see some giant screws in that wheel piston. They look lik something out of home depo, is that suppose to be like that or is it just a cheap solution?
Personally think the whole thing is insane, both in terms of what they want for them new and the secondary market.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, this smacks of a replay of the standard gauge era. A small clientele of wealthy people chasing big expensive trains. The manufacturers are making profit, the resellers are making profit, the well heeled scale fans are happy. But sooner or later, the bottom is going to fall out, it always has. And I don't think a $1 Mickey Mouse handcar is going to save the day this time.
It doesn't make things easy on those of us who just want a good locomotive to run, but it's not all doom and gloom either. Just have to look into the stuff that isn't hot right now and do a bit of wheeling and dealing, you might just be surprised.
Got pleasantly surprised myself the other day to find a UP GP-38 for $75. Common as dirt, as it was in a set and the Geep tooling's been around a long time, but it's still a neat engine to me.
There's 1 thing you might wanna put on your next video the 1225 pure marquette
only if the currency disparity wasn't so heaven and hell in this part of the world, lionel would've been a star in India
Wy is the cabin tilting back on the hotdog loco? the color sceem on it is very cool! sorry for bad english
Chris, I feel that it is alot of greedyness is why the people that are sellers that are driving the prices on the secondary markets and also look out for the people that are scamers that say they are selling these steam engine and all. Alot of people that are jacking up the prices of these train sets have fallen and bumped there heads I say.
It is all a matter of supply and demand. That's the unfortunate way it works. I buy what ever I want by saving for it in my "Special Train" bank account that has no fees and pays a little interest. It is a great system!
@@brianmuhlingBUM I understand that, what I have been trying to do over the years is find all the extra first generation black top roof polar express passenger cars and the upgraded first generation coal tender that has the different sounds from the movie the polar express.
Dear Doctor, I am so sorry that I won't be of any help to you in finding your much wanted "Polar" stock as I have only just this year started buying Lionel. I have put down some track and have 2 locos and some rolling stock. I must say Lionel is very well built. I am impressed.
@@brianmuhlingBUM I understand and it dose take time and saving up money. I also do buy used rolling stock and different kinds of train car's in 0 27 and 0 gage, my polar express train set is the 0 27 gage and the trucks under the passenger cars only have 4 wheels per truck.
@@doctordeath.5716 There are many bargains to be had if you are prepared to wait until the stock you are looking for comes up at auction. I won a perfect 4-6-2 heavy pacific for $70 in green, and a 2-8-2 Atlantic Crescent for $180. Both boxed with instructions.
Both great! My next locomotive will be a Lionel Big Boy.
Ha. I have two GS VL'S.
A Stockyard Express set and the 3 Dynamo's Black Santa Fe anniversary engine.
I'd consider selling the Stockyard set.....😁
I'll also consider a VL Big Boy. Not the 3985 VL Challenger.
Thanks for the top 5 list.
Great video and very informative!! Are any of the MTH trains worth anything??
MTH has some valuable trains as well! The Triplex and some others are strong sellers. Have not seen them above $2k but would not be surprised to see them climb.
@@RBPTrains maybe a future video in the making!! Lol
Within the last month I saw a Lionel 6464 series box car go at auction for 5200.00 twice
Some of those original 6464 cars fetch mega $$$. It’s crazy!
I think I'll stick with high mileage Post War and MPC locos. Those new ones are too rich for my blood.
Can’t go wrong with Post War and MPC! I always have fun running those!