I'm not sure about "dying" but the hobby seems to go in its cycles, it might seem like it's dying because it's an expensive obscure hobby. You need money and space for it and with the housing market in shambles nobody has space and having to make at least 20$ an hour to live while minimum wage hasn't really changed much from the 7.25 an hour it's been at, most people are surviving not so much living so vary few people are buying this stuff. Most stuff I have are from the 80s and 90s off ebay, newer stuff is far too expensive, everything in the new lionel catalogs are so expensive I don't even bother looking at them basically good for fire kindling. And I think most people who get into this hobby are in their late 20s or early 30s when their finally somewhat stable and have their lives together which isn't a whole lot millennials had it rough so the average dude would probably look at this and be deterred by the prices.
I will say, younger generations don’t seem to be as interested in model trains. Of course some will notice it more than others but you see way more older people than younger people. Of course the prices are definitely a problem. A child can’t afford as much as a steam engine. But, the fact that trains are getting less interesting (they’re still really interesting but not as much as companies unify the classes they use) is definitely staggering the amount of people to decide to pursue the hobby. I don’t know for other places though as I’m British but I’d assume it’s the same everywhere.
It's to expensive I love trains and want a layout but when it comes to toy trains or a sports car I'd rather the car. Don't get me wrong I am building a small layout but the buildings are lego marvel because that's somehow cheaper
I'm young and the prices scare me away. Just ridiculous for what you get. I could do HO for half and get double but I collect Department 56 pieces and the scale would be off with HO. So now I'm doing serious research to pick which one to do.
I am just one of many Hobbyists out there who share a layout publicly but there are so many more model railroaders out there. Thank you for watching @anthonyvaldez9773!
The hobby is definitely not dying, but there are some divides in the hobby for sure. We did a video on this a while back as well with a few points not addressed in your video, namely the divide between those who prefer the older control systems vs DCC and wifi and also how the "gatekeepers" in the hobby relate to the average person. God forbid you run whatever you want on your layout, there WILL be negative comments about "prototype" and being "prototypical." There are too many gatekeepers in the hobby, and not enough of a welcoming attitude, especially towards young people. My 10 year old son has experienced this repeatedly at train shows.
Sorry to hear that this has happened to your son! I was at a train show last week and there were so many great people there. It was truly encouraging. :)
I personally don’t think that the hobby is dying. I used to think it was dying because of the insane prices of trains these days, but the best way to combat this isn’t to shop online, but to go out to flea markets, shows, and model shops. Online sellers like to crank the price up as high as possible but flea markets, shows and stores tend to be a lot more reasonable. The best deals I’ve found were two $300 steam engines going for 60 bucks a piece.
O scale is in trouble because hardly anybody has space for it. The main reason it was ever a thing is that people had more space and the technology to make them smaller was less affordable. These days, there's a scale for basically any sized space.
I don’t think it’s just the online stores. I used to buy a lot on eBay and had a very nice prr set up with about 5 trains running. I sold off a lot after moving and decided to put a gym where the even bigger set was gonna go. This was 6 years ago. I looked at what sets I used to have and the prices these idiots are trying to fetch is astronomical. I never would have bought them at the prices people are trying to get now and these sets I’ve been looking at aren’t selling on eBay at all. For instance I purchased the Bethlehem steel freight set new for about $220 bidding back in 2018 and there are multiple on eBay trying to fetch $500-$600. The set sold new for $399 when it came out. It’s just ridiculous across the board how the prices have gone up and I no longer have interest in another nice set up based off these prices. Yes, I could get older trains at swaps, shows, flea markets, but most of that stuff, I’m not interested in.
I am 49 now and got into O Gauge 3 or 4 years ago after picking up a postwar Lionel 675 train set on Craigslist from the original owner for $60 and immediately went to work cleaning the old set up. She runs great and is by far my favorite. I don't spend a lot of money on my layout, but have built a great setup that I raise and lower from my ceiling in the garage using a winch. It's based on my hometown in Warren, Arkansas and I'm having a great time building structures with 3D printing. The hobby isn't dead for me and I've introduced it to the kids in my family, in the same way it was introduced to me. So, I'm hopeful that these old O Gauge sets will still be going long after I am done on the planet.
I was involved decades ago and gave up my trains ( I wish I still had my tinplate now) because I moved into a small trailer. But I’m now 66 ( woman)and started a tiny layout because my father, uncles, grandparent all worked on a Shortline in their small mountain town. And I decided to try to collect the type of engines they worked with. My sister got involved and we scoured the Internet for old photos. Meanwhile a 75 yr old friend of mine found out and wanted to add a train set to her Humongous Village set. So she had me take her to a local train show to get her started with a simple HO setup. That was a year ago. While there we found an O gauge mining set. She owns a non working mining claim next to her home. So she had to have that set. Now She willingly drags me to shows. And got her grandnephews and nieces into her new obsession. I think the issue now is that the New sets are geared towards collectors with such high prices. Bring back the starter sets that are not in the several hundreds of dollars and we would probably have a lot more people interested in this hobby. Not all of us need all the fancy bells and whistles. They are fun but I still prefer my old locomotives.
Hey, if you're hitting train shows with your friend you're going to do OK. Shows have a lot to offer and a lot to choose from so the hobby doesn't have to cost a fortune.
Part of the issue is also perceived value. You _can_ sell a starter set for hundreds of dollars but it needs to actually feel worth that money. KATO's full-consist starter sets are a good example if you don't mind them being N scale since you basically get an entire consist in the box with a significant amount of track (plus KATO's legendary reliability).
"I think the issue now is that the New sets are geared towards collectors with such high prices. "Yes, and at train shows I've seen the Lionel reps ignore parents and kids wanting a starter set because they only want to talk to people willing to spend $700+ for just a locomotive. MTH reps were great with kids, but now that that brand is on the decline . . . .
@@swdw973 The situation with MTH is more complex than just a decline. What happened is that the owner and founder passed, the company made a statement about closing their doors and sold all their modern diesel HO tooling to Scaletrains and most of everything else to Lionel, then decided to just downsize operations and start over instead, but because of that statement everyone still thinks they're gone. Actually kinda parallels the situation with HPI over on the RC scene when you think about it. They're still around but few people seem to actually know that, and it seems like the people that do want things to stay that way.
@@VestedUTuber I know all about what's happened. But the parts website that was supposed to be fully operational as a stand alone business by now isn't. The updated control systems that were supposed to be out by the split off DCS group has only released the combined WiFi DCS. Nothing else has been talked about. The production is only special runs, usually high end stuff. And that is limited to only the models they were unable to sell to other manufacturers. To me, add it all up and you have a decline as none of the offshoots are doing very well.
The Hobby isnt dying, its just a lot less popular than it once was and the prices really put it off for some people, if anything id see people buying them for display rather than running
@@williammacdonald3173 You say that like HO wasn't already the most popular scale in the hobby in both the US and mainland Europe. But yeah, N scale is definitely on the rise.
@@VestedUTuber That sounds about right. My Dad's set was O because he had the space for it when he was a kid and there were fewer options then. I started out on HO back in the '90s, but these days my interest is in N, just because I can have the space for a relatively interesting layout with plenty of stuff to do other than just model it once and run the train around a simple loop. O is likely not ever going to be as popular as it was, at least not until housing prices drop a lot. It's expensive needing all that extra space to house a train layout. Especially when HO, N and ohter smaller options exist.
@@VestedUTuberit's it's also popular here in Australia too. I have been in the hobby for about 3 yrs now. At my local train club there are quite a few younger kids getting involved in the hobby. So don't think that the hobby is dying. As for price of ho and n scale trains I tend to agree they're both pretty popular and they're definitely have gotten expensive in last 2 year's. I how ever don't agree with the opinion that online seller's inflat the price. Of some model trains. There are lots of reasons why some model trains are more expensive than other's online depends on the maker functions weather it's DCC sound or just DC that could also depends on why the prices you may see online is expensive . Here in Australia we don't have The luxury of having a local model train store. Just in The neighbourhood. We have to to The bigger cities. Then again they are very few and far between. That is why alot of modellers use the online.
About 2 months ago I visited Miniatur Wunderland in Germany, and believe it or not it is the most visited place in all of Germany. This place everyday, is packed with visitors Starter sets are not getting more expensive either, if you apply for the price of inflation a LionChief would cost about $680 compared to a starter set in the 1950's. Now is O scale dying, I can't say. HO is still number 1. But since Menards has jumped into the business, I think that is helping O scale. BTW, I don't care if you are G, Z or O scale, I recommend to everyone to go to Hamburg Germany and go to Miniatur Wunderland, it's amazing. And if you go with your spouse, they will come out loving it.
I don't think the mid to high level of the hobby is going anywhere, but I do think that the entry level stuff is getting either crazy expensive or crap quality. O gauge needs a good quality cheaper entry level set to get more kids into the hobby. Another aspect is 3D printing and how it has really grow into model railroading.
@@sircharles461 Knock the set down to 100-150$ and remove the soundset and we've got a proper entry level set...as is 220-250 is too much for entry lvl For example when I was a kid my mom wouldn't spend over 100 on a trainset I barely got the lionel one I grew up with 220? Would be completely out of the question in the realms of NO But the rest of menards lineup looks fine for entry lvl trains, cheap cars that have been getting better and remain at 20 a car
That doesn't solve the larger problem that is space. You need quite a lot of space for something as large as O. Or, you're stuck settling for a simple oval with a couple switch yards. My N layout is pretty tiny and I can do a lot with it in the space I've got available. It's still quite expensive, but at least I'm not stuck paying a lot of money for rent on the extra square footage to hold the thing.
I had O-gauge in the mid 1950s as a child with nicely detailed steam engine and passenger cars all from Lionel! Years later I saw a friend's layout and he had a smaller train set that was even more detailed and unlike my set with 3 rails, his only had 2 rails. It looked so realistic as the engine pulled a string of freight cars along a mountainside. He told me that it was called HO. From then I was hooked! Sorry but those three rails had to go if I wanted to strive for realism. Mom later sold my O-gauge set when I went off to college. I lucked into a complete set of HO from a friend a few houses away who just got tired of them and wanted to try something else. He asked something crazy like $14 for his two HO steam engines and a small yard switcher, along with about a dozen cars, switches, and transformer! I found a second hand store in KY years ago that had a box under a table with 8 steam engines and tenders in it. The lady told me $2.00 a piece for them (engine + tender). I bought them all on the spot. Took them home and immediately began testing them. Took them apart and cleaned and lubed as needed and all but one ran perfectly! The last one had an issue that was finally made with my dremel tool and a steady hand. Eight engines and tenders for less than $20. Which was the cost of several lunches back then but so worth it!! I'm now in my early 70s and passed on my collection to my only son, who likewise enjoys them! Keep the hobby alive! The hobby isn't dying....things are getting more expensive. Your collection is amazing as is your enthusiasm and I wish you the best. To each their own. Happy New Year!!
I have been in model trains since about 1975 in HO and now in HO and O scale. What was once a Christmas hobby has evolved into a year-round hobby now. The hobby was once a local train shop, Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsmen, and maybe a local train show. Now it has exploded with new technology, You Tube sites, Facebook groups, online chat groups, online ordering, and Bluetooth to just name a few. The hobby is not dying, it is changing and evolving, and I am glad that I am able to see it and enjoy all the people that share their model trains on the different platforms because I always see something and wow, why didn't I think of that, I might need to try that idea.
I agree, O and some of the larger options may die out, but with the number of scales and gauges to choose from, there's a decent option for anybody with the money to get set up. And, once you've got a basic loop, train and controls, most of the rest can be done incrementally as you have cash and time.
It’s easier to scam people online cause you can’t run it online and if it dosent work the customer can’t get back to the shop owner and then they lost their koney
Chris, this was probably one of the best analysis of the current state of our hobby. My standout measure that the hobby is growing and not dying is social media. Their is a common factor in your channel and the others you mentioned. You guys are YOUNGER than the typical collectors we see at York. My highest percentage viewer age group is 25-34 (beating 65+ by a point). As an IT data analyst and geographer all of the indicators show growth not decline. Only thing we know for sure is that eventually older hobbyist will die but their collections will live on with younger hobbyist. Thus is the oval track of life....
One thing I would add to this as someone who left O gauge and now does HO and N. Is the availability and level of detail in smaller scale trains. It’s now comparable to O and when I go to shows I see more and more people buying smaller scale stuff compared to O.
@@kidamere2408 if you look at the top end stuff in HO and N it is currently comparable to Legacy or premier line stuff. That’s from what I’ve seen at least.
Great video as always Chris! One of the things that's most encouraging to me is the change in style of UA-cam videos in recent years. A few years ago, most model train videos were just formal product reviews and layout updates. Now channels like yours, Adaumus, and others are having fun making them, including goofy humor, etc. I think that's really encouraging for the hobby as a whole and I agree it is on the rise.
I’m a dollhouse hobbyist and always lean toward smaller scales. I’m making my first O gauge of our new home build and I’m instantly addicted. I think in our minimalist leaning society this hobby seems perfectly slated for growth!
Chris, in my opinion YOU are O Gauge, YOU are the future, along with JD Strucks are the future of Lionel, MTH, Atlas and others are our HOPR of next generation O Gauge train enthusiasts. I appreciate all YOU do! Thanks for keeping our hobby in good health and for being a leader in this hobby's growth. Michael Grandinetti VP of National Sales at American Millwork......And long time Lionel train, Classic Toy Train guy.
Hello! Yes, the model railroaders are dying out...the locomotives are becoming more and more expensive , are often only to be used as showcase models and are often more unreliable in their functions than old models.
The one thing I'd say about it is that while the hobby definitely isn't _dying,_ it's definitely in a non-fatal decline. But it's for various issues beyond just "lack of interest". Cost of entry, continued costs and expenses, availability of locomotives and rolling stock, etc.
Yes, also keep in mind that there's more tech toys available now for them to compete with during their peak and people in general have less space, less money and work more than they did back then.
Expensive..was the key word.. young boys & yes girls are not being introduced to trains.. these days hand phones etc young people are into...sad times😢
I've wanted to build a specific layout for years but I was unable to for various reasons. But now I'm in my 60's and I've got a new excitement for it and I've been watching hundreds of UA-cam videos and I'm ready to build my layout. With all the UA-cam videos out there I definitely don't see the hobby dying at all.
Hey, go for it! And remember, it's YOUR layout, make it as plain or fancy as you like. One thing I'd advise you to do (and I give this advice to everyone starting out) is get the trains up and running as soon as you can, don't worry about scenicking, that can follow. Getting trains running will give you a sense of accomplishment and prepare you for the next steps. As I like to put it the layout is the stage and the trains are the actors. Good actors can give a great performance on a bare stage but the best-dressed stage is useless without the actors.
Its funny that this was uploaded today. Earlier I went to my friends because he had gotten a bunch of lionel trains from his grandpa. So me and another friend went over, and we set up the trains, ran them all, and had a lot of fun. It was really cool because i have always been into trains, but my friend's not so much, but by the end of the day we all were really into it, my friends even wanted to go to a show with me. I think to me it shows that the interests in the hobby is very much alive, and those who really experience it enjoy it.
Sometimes the sights, sounds, smells, and hands-on of O Gauge trains are all it takes to make converts. I think because it's something that's REAL. not a moving shadow on a video screen. I've lost track of how many train show visitors I've seen watching club displays and grinning wide enough to eat a banana sideways! Catchin' the fever all right!
Dying? No getting restored and upgraded I have started. ENGINE 246 Lionel O gauge that I remember as a kid I now have. I took it to a shop in Sarasota and repairs are being made. Would like to show pictures but can't here.
I don't think the hobby is fully dying yet, but it is getting to the point where unless you have someone already into the hobby or a good paying job your kinda out of luck. Model trains at one time use to be for all levels of train Fandom from beginner/budget up to serious/burn my wallet xD fans but now it seems like it's only for the higher up part of the fan base and it saddens me to see that those that where beginners or budget people like myself where you could get say an HO scale starter set for 50 bucks and just slowly grow your collection over time have been run out of the hobby as nothin is as cheap as it use to be and I regret getting rid of my collection when I was in high school in the early 2000s now 😢
Good observations and video. That's why we need young guys like yourself to take the hobby to the future. At 71, I try not to be negative and complain. You are so right in your statements. ALWAYS an enjoyable time listening and seeing you with your trains. Hope to see you at the meet and great Saturday at York.
This is one of the most important videos you have done. I want to comment on one particular section, the videos done by Sid and Johnny about the Blunami decoder board. Coincidentally, I stumbled across their videos last night and was amazed at what they were doing. I have an older but really nice MTH K4 in which the electronics are "fried". I have been tinkering with it adding simple electronics to replace the basic functions but it is slow work. Sid's and Johnny's videos made me realize that there really is a very clean solution to get, what is now a brick, functioning actually better than it ever did. This is a really important area of innovation without which there is no long term solution for failed, obsolete electronics - something that has made me really concerned for the long term future of our happy. Thank you for helping to spread the word and thanks to Sid and Johnny for their videos.
People are always lamenting how this is a post-retirement age hobby and when the elderly pass on there won’t be anything left, while missing the fact that more people are reaching retirement age every day…
Not to mention those who had trains in their youth, drifted away while approaching adulthood, then rediscovering the hobby once they've gained some stability in their lives.
@@RailRidethis is me, I’m around my mid 20s and I have rebuilt my layout that my dad built me as a kid. Just bought two engines and some rolling stock a few weeks ago. Been making the mountain and tunnels over the summer, now I need to do some wiring
In an era when even the previously shunned MPC trains are actually becoming collectible it’s hard to say O gauge is dying. As a toy, trains will never be king again, but true model railroading and toy and model train collecting has always been a niche market and that’s not going away.
I bought online from Brady's and drove to checkout their tent sale, even picked up a few extra things while there. If people say O gauge is dying, I'd hate to see what they say about Standard/Wide Gauge and S scale.
Returning modeler here (currently 25 yrs old), one of the convenient things of model railroading is the different model sizes. For those in apartments or small spaces the comfort scale is N scale. I came from HO scale as a child and had a lot of fun with it, but now that I'm older with a fresh start, I am having fun creating my little world in a new space. My bread and butter is Amtrak with other modern or old trains (mainly Kato) and the models keep getting better and better.
You talk about getting creative. That's the 100% truth. For me was a space issue. After about a 10 year pause from trains I woke up one day and said "im taking my trains oitside" over the years I made ALL my o guage trains battery power and remote control like g scale. Now I get to enjoy the hobby again and loving it!!
Lionel has expanded its brick and mortar into Nashville. So brick and mortar is not dead. Recently visited Charles Ro in Malden MA and their business is good. Shelves are stocked with everything. Glad to see you're back Chris. I was getting a little worried about you.
Nice job in summarizing the state of our hobby. I agree with your statement that we are in a transition, but the hobby is definitely not dying. With the recent Atlas/MTH collaboration agreement and Menards releasing their first set, the outlook is still positive, but different.
At best the market is shrinking in this transition... Go to shows and look at the age of most of the people walking out with armloads of stuff. Not young people for sure. Go online to the various model train forums... Not a lot of younger guys on those either. Is the hobby dying for sure? I honestly don't know, but I've been in it for the better part of 35yrs and I don't see the majority of people at shows staying about the same age, all I see is older "baby boomers" with a lot of disposable income. Not a lot of younger people, other than the very young kids and their parents, who are not necessarily into the hobby, but just there for their kids.
Thanks for making this video. (I did watch all the way to the end.) Model railroading is changing, but not going away. My recent move provided me with a small but dedicated room in which to build a new layout. My new housemate recently admitted he had thought that old men playing with trains was silly. Now that he has seen me get some old American Flyers locomotive running again, complete with smoke and chuff-chuff, and seeing my cattle yard in action with cows walking around and moving into a stock car, he doesn't thing this is silly, and is becoming intrigued. The growth of my UA-cam channel, also says to me that model trains still draw interest from those just discovering the hobby. Even where I live where the last, and only, rail line literally went away about 100 years ago, trains still have a magical draw.
I had to chuckle when you mentioned the way your housemate reacted to the trains at first. I think we all know someone who thought the same thing and then saw the layout come to life. You have a great Channel as well and I look forward to seeing what is next! Keep inspiring!
The demand for Conrail in model form may be a result of 2 Conrail Heritage units being unveiled and taking to their respective mainlines over the summer. CSX releasing theirs in July and Metro North releasing theirs in August so it would make some sense for modelers to want some representation of Conrail after those railroads have brought it back to the front of peoples mind. Well, also Norfolk Southern announcing their intentions to refurbish their heritage units may have played a much smaller part as well, as they were the first to do a Conrail heritage unit.
Also, Conrail's been gone as a corporate entity (CSAO aside) marginally longer than it was as a separate railroad. That's long enough for the nostagia factor to start kicking in.
One group of modelers is also getting a boost. Live steam. There are many people my age and even younger (22 years or less) who are involved in this hobby. It mostly involves trains from 1:16 to 1:8 scale. 1:8 Scale is most popular.
I was forced to be an armchair modeler because of my parents. Got good at a lot of things. Reading and making prints, scenery, infrastructure, grades and elevations, construction, cartography, by making very detailed layout plans, electrical, and so much more. Fifteen years later, I was offered a job in construction, excavating and grading. Since I already knew what was supposed to be under the ground as well as above it, slipping in to the role was easy. Three weeks in, I was the guy on the transit, measuring the grade of a complicated job. Kept all the calculations in my head, and made my reference marks alongside the dig. We got done, loaded the machine, and went back to the shop. The company owner asked where I went to school for Civil Engineering! Told him that I was a model railroader. I explained that it was a great deal more than “playing with trains,” and told him all that went with it. He never asked about my skills ever again. Even had me bidding massive jobs. I must have learned something from that hobby, maybe? BTW, “modeling” in 1:1 is a whole lot easier on the brain, because half the math of shrinking things is gone!
Chris great video on the subject. I have to agree with what you had say. The hobby is changing it’s not dying. Most of the people that are saying it is the old crowd. I’m in that group at 72 and I have to tell you I love what has happened to it and I’m always looking forward to the new innovations. I believe it’s great that you and the UA-cam community are out there helping. Keep up the great job. I’ll be looking forward to future videos.
BROTHERMAN, they ain't dying, we are!!!! Great video Chris, KEEP THEM COMMING BRO aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! COOL MAN COOL!!! O GAUGE WILL NEVER DYE!! 😜🤪😝😁😍😋😛❤🧡💛💜🖤🤟🤘👍👍👍👍
I’m an ho scale guy i don’t think the hobby is dying. If the hobby was dying there would be no new products and there would be a lot more being sold in the internet so they could get rid of them. I see trains being sold for thousands of dollars. If the hobby was dying those train wouldn’t be sold. I sit in my basement for hours playing with my model trains and I never get bored of them
I repair a number of O and O27 Gauge trains. as well as HO. In the last two years I have seen my little business grow. Not to mention the number of people that I have been in contact with, either in finding parts or selling what I have repaired. Train shows are what got me in this very enjoyable hobby. I love it and spread the word
Friday afternoon, my neighborhood had a block party. I opened the garage and ran the trains for all to see. I let the kids run them, answered a ton of questions and everyone had a good time. I had nearly as many adults as kids checking things out.
For O Gauge / Scale specifically. Collector and prototypical demand may be up. But unless there is a big increase in beginner and intermediate sets, the hobby will run into a demographic decline that will make it a much smaller hobby. Lionel doesn't seem to be interested in this topic. I'm one of those people that has to go out on the secondary market, as new prices are too high. What most people don't consider, is the increase in interest in the secondary market is mostly due to cost. And in that market, most of the sales are transferring trains from one user that is getting out of the hobby to one that is interested, so your net gain in hobbyists is barely somewhere around zero. The newer users are more apt to make videos, but that doesn't mean you have a huge upswing in users. Why do I think Lionel doesn't care about new users? At train shows, I've seen the Lionel reps ignore parents w/ kids and adults interested in starting who want a starter set, because they only want to talk to people willing to spend $700+ for just a locomotive. MTH reps were great with kids, but now that that brand is on the decline . . . .
Great points and thank you for sharing. I thought it was neat that Lionel attended Comic-Con in New York last week. They reached a massive new audience as those shows tend to draw very large crowds. Definitely not a situation where they were looking for train enthusiasts, but rather, were looking for families. If Lionel keeps this focus on reaching out to new people, it may turn the tide on the perception that they only cater to the enthusiast-level collector. Thanks for watching!
For my observation, The biggest thing in recent years is the growth of O Gauge UA-cam channels. You and your friends have become the new ambassadors for O Gauge railroading. I am sure the UA-cam videos have encouraged more people to enter the hobby. And the UA-cam videos have transformed into new faces at the shows. Thanks to you and your friends for all you have done.
Without inspiration from those who have been doing this before us, none of us would be doing this today. Thank you for all of your support of the channel and it was great seeing you last week at York!
I'm an ho scale modeler, and I recently joined a club in my area, and one thing I noticed when I joined is that my club has a good few young members. Like, in elementary or middle school. I feel the model railroad sector is doing well and will continue to do well
My two best friends and I started building our first layout a couple years ago. Once a year we have an open house. We get more than 40 enthusiastic visitors and it is only 1/4 done. People love model trains
At York a few days ago we heard more than one vendor comment this was the lowest turnout they had seen. My observation is that in the aisles there were people buying but I did not see many buying engines or higher end cars. On Fri we bought a set of six pass cars that were marked 500 for 200. To me that shows low demand, not high.
Other club members who are club veterans tell me hearing "York isn't what it used to be!" has been the cry of the chronic complainers for years. I don't know what the attendence was at this York show but at April's it was 9000. As one veteran told me "9,000 visitors may not be the 'Old York' but it's still pretty damn respectable! A lot of other train shows would love to have that number!" As far as pricing's concerned keep in mind that aside from the band new articles it's whatever the market will bear.
I definitely agree with your points here, but I think the big issue with the O Gauge Market (and the model train market in general) have been making entry level stuff so expensive, that they’re pricing out the average Joe who may want to get into the hobby. Starter sets will now set you back nearly $500, and it’s difficult to find something of a good quality for a reasonable price. I’m hoping companies like Menards shows the “Big Boys” like Lionel the benefits of making good quality, ready-to-run offerings for a good price.
This was fantastic! Verry nice O set up.i have a large N scale collection and when somthing new comes out .if u dont buy right away you cant find it later.i think trains accross the board will be stronger.there is a want for somthing u can touch and hold verses what is on a computer screan.well done!
As long as we keep introducing the hobby to the younger generations it will continue to grow. As I did with Caleb from a very young age, let them be part of everything. Show them not only how to run the trains but also the scenery, wiring, etc. Let them truly be part of the fun. Great video, Chris. Happy Railroading!
You and Caleb are an inspiration! My Dad introduced me and my brother when we were kids and we have both kept it rolling in our family as well. Thanks for watching!
My dad started me into Lionel trains as well. You are a great asset to the model train community. Oh and by the way, you’re Caleb’s favorite UA-camr. Keep doing what you do. Happy Railroading!
I'm a rookie as far as to building dioramas, but I am a big railfan who wants to build his own layout and I'm seeing more and more people building layouts of every sizes. And in all honesty, I can't wait to start building my very first layout and learn all there is to the hobby.
I agree RBP, I don't think model railroading is declining. There is something special about going to the train store and seeing all the trains there on the shelf but this is the world we live in today with all the online buying. While the online buying of trains is great, I hope that the old fashioned train store can stick around too. Great video
OK so I was going to post this on my own channel but here are my thoughts. This is a direct flood or my own throughts that I typed out and was going to use as a script so it's a little long-winded. you've been warned Hey guys, Shane here. I wanted to touch on a subject that has been covered lightly in some of my other videos but never been the focus. And that is the question I see all the time. "Is the model railroad hobby dying?" And my answer to this is.. possibly, but not entirely. It's a little more complicated than a "yes" or "no" answer. It's a bit like Schroedinger's cat. Is it dead, or is it alive? Nobody can be sure until we open the box. So let's dive into pandora's box and hope we don't unlock the lament configuration. Model railroads can be traced all the way back to the 1830's as miniatures of trains made by German artisans out of molded brass and famously in the mid 1850's one was had by the young sun of French Emperor Napoleon the 3rd. It was definitely reserved for the super wealthy as things were hand crafted by skilled craftsman and each one was a one-off work of art. The model railroading hobby as we know it really came about in the late 1800's thanks to efforts of Marklin Model Railways. Whom was able to manufacture an electric powered set that met the detail and reliability standard of the American market as prior European models had been deemed too fragile or poorly detailed. As we move into the 20th century we see a very prominent name show up. a young inventer named Joshua Lionel Cowen founds Lionel Manufacturing and by 1906 has brought the first O scale 3-rail electric model train set to market. This was the gold standard for model railroading but they weren't alone. The Marx company started production in the mid 1930's and brought competetion to Lionel in their own scale offering models which were, at the time, more affordable although lacking in some of the reginements of Lionel. Lionel and Marx filled homes with many wonderful O-scale offerings up through the 70's at which time Lionel stood at the top of the hill of O-scale as Marx, as a company, ceased operations in 1980. Many sight a paradigm shift in the 1950's as a downturn in model railroading in favor of electric slot car sets and the like . I attribute a more broad phenomonon. Not long after WW2 the united states experienced a massive economic boon. Automobile ownership came to the common working man, rail travel had declined heavily in favor of affordable air travel and the launch of the jet age in the mid 50's with the introduction of the legendary Boeing 707 (honorable mention to the British Dehaviland comet as being the actual first jet liner to see revenue service) And also the space race against the soviet union spuring imaginations of children the world over into high tech toys and gadgets. In this, model railroads seem to be a thing of the past. Yet they soldiered on. With the introduction of several manufactureres of HO scale making model railroads smaller and more easily set up in confined areas the model railroad seemed to experience a small surge in popularity again in the 60's all the way through the 80's. I see a few factors in this. One being the birth of Amtrak which breathed new life into passenger rail service not only in the commuter but travel industries, and possibly part to do with a certain creepy, cooky, mysterious and spooky individual and his legendary antics with his O-scale set. Ok so that gets us into the 80's when I was born. So now I can offer first person experiences. When I was a kid growing up in a working class household I used to drive around with my dad everywhere when he had to run errands, usually on the weekends, and we'd see trains all the time as a result. Hauling freight mostly in my area. And I loved seeing them. And when I was a kid I remember my first set being a simple Lionel steamer with an oval of track. And I would play with that often on my bedroom floor. But my real love for model railroading began in the late 80's / early 90's when dad bought me my first HO scale set and set up a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the garage. This set was a Life-Like Rail Blaster kit. Not fancy even by the standards of the times but rather than a steam locomotive which i'd only seen on TV it brought diesels that I had actially seen my whole life (although Chessie didn't run in my area). And I was hooked. As I imagine many kids were in the 80's as well. Unfortunate for the model railroad industry there was a digital phenomonon taking the world by storm. The home video console revolution was upon us. And myself, as well as my younger brothers, friends, etc. were all-in by the early 90's with Nintendo, Sega, etc. It is this, i feel, that really set the stage for where we are at now which is an ever-increasing reliance on digital goods not only for our day-to-day with emails, social media, etc. but our hobbies as well in the form of console and computer games. Personally I didn't even mess with a model railroad set again till I was in my mid 30's. And it's that gap that I believe most of the industry was lost in. Which is why you see very large devide in age in model railroads, Most of my viewers are 65 years or older. Only 3% are my age (30's and 40's) and less than a single percent any younger. There are those out there, Grandparents, older fathers, uncles, older brothers, etc. still in the hobby trying to pass it on to younger generations but as I have seen myself most just don't seem interested in anything other than their electronic devices. There is movement on the front of electronic devices as it pertains to trains, however, both in digital offerings for the physical model railroad in DCC, computer control, etc. and in actual computer and console games such as Trainz, Train Sim World, and Derail Valley to name a few. However these are still mostly the domain of us Gen Z and older folk. So is the hobby dying? Maybe. But not because of the obvious reasons. Even as somebody whom is relatively mature, intelligent, and fairly handy when it comes to doing my own research I ask questions from time to time. And usually these questions are asked in forums like facebook groups, comments on other youtube videos, etc. And what I have seen, in reply to not only myself but MANY others, is a rather dismissive, rude, and otherwise grouchy community. People seem to think that anybody that has less experience or knowledge at somebody than they do is an idiot and should have known the answer to their "stupid" question since it's been asked "a million times". And you know what? That's not helping anybody and yet I see it in virtually every online community i'm a member of. This is not how you share a hobby or get others involved. You exchange ideas, you answer the questions, you show how, you show pictures, videos, etc. of you enjoying the hobby. We are fortunate to have some very good UA-camrs out there such as Jimmy with DIY and Digital, Tom Kovichak with Tom's Trains and Things, Chris with RBP Trains, Steve with Steve's Trains, Dan Cortopassi's channel, and the list goes on. These gentlemen are sharing the how to's, the answers, and their love of the hobby. We just need to get more young people out there to watch. We need to get trains in our schools, maybe get involved with your local club to have a show and tell at a school or an open house at a local layout. Get the kids in there, let them play, answer their questions, get them interested. Otherwise this fantastic hobby will certainly die, Not overnight, but slowly, Only time will tell. It's really up to us, the current generations of model railroaders, to try to keep it alive. to get the kids involved. Gift a starter set, let the nieces and nephews run your trains, take them to ride a train, take them to a museum. Get them involved. But more than anything, BE NICE. Otherwise it's all going to fade away. And we can't call ourselves true enthusiasts if we allow that to heppen.
I've been enjoying model railroads as a hobby for 20 years. The new prices have pushed me out of the buying. Lionel has been awful as as far as getting the missing parts for the TWO legacy gp's I purchased a couple years back. Mth? Who knows with them. I spent $450 on an engine that fried within a month. I make decent $$$ but I'm not willing to spend anymore. They send items for UA-cam channels to show. Then they don't service them when they arrive with missing parts.
Good comment :) please don't take this the wrong way of course, but just a little bit of fyi: Lionels 0 was 1915, introduced after dropping the trolley line and to enter into the market in competition with Ives with the forced withdrawal of Bing and to a lesser extent marklin (remember bing had the lions share of the US market, one that Ives was battling against. Marklin had for 1914 a big push planned to launch into the US market, but fairly obviously that plan didn't come to fruition. The fragility and detail of the Europeans wasn't really quite there to satisfy market trends. Whereas skilled tinsmiths were a dime a dozen in Europe and manufacturers could afford laborious construction and painting methods the US manufacturers found it economically beneficial to just use cast iron. Lots of detail in the initial molding, paint just dipped, and expensive labour costs could be kept down to just the initial casting process. And just too add marklin combined a few existing ideas into the one basket, planck having already had an electric train, issmayer the track system etc. I feel that the model railway scene not dying, no way. It's just turned into a hobby for model railroaders, as opposed to a universal hobby.
Never had a FB account myself. Or Twitter. Still I keep a finger on the pulse of general things in the social-media world, and...well... ...the Facebook groups are toxic to newbies? Imagine my shock 🤣 One thing I've seen demonstrated time and time again (and this isn't just in model railroading) for _years_ on end, is that it's one thing to _know_ your stuff...it's an entirely different ball of wax to be able to _teach_ it. Knowing that, I strive to answer elementary-sounding questions in an easy-to-grasp style that informs the uninitiated here on UA-cam (and often get thanks from the questioner in return). The bulk of my online train-related activity besides watching stuff here, is on O Gauge Railroading 's forum, which has been in operation for around 23 years now, and I still offer detailed responses to the kinds of questions that some 'old heads' resort to _"use the search function"_ replies (as in most affairs, the info you get often depends on _how_ you word your search terms, and it isn't always obvious what will get you the info you're looking for) Now if I could only cobble together enough unstructured time to resume enough operations to make and post videos again...I've acquired so much since the last one I posted (and so much that hasn't _had_ the chance to perform for the camera even before that). It amazes me how some of my old videos (subways and Acela) are still accumulating views despite the bare-bones infrastructure I have to operate on.
Don't think the hobby is dying at all.. As for Lionel they've stepped up their trains making them more realistic and prototypical in size. But with the growth of both N Scale and HO, it's better now, then before.
Some of the ones that claim that the hobby is dying is more of older men dying and some of their next generation of family have little to no interest like the estate auction of a large collection of MTH and K-Line, along with some postwar. There is still young fans getting into the hobby, having class I railroads doing heritage units to gain more interest helps
I think the biggest problem is how hard it is for new people to afford to get in the hobby, because their will always be an intrest in model railroading but the young people don't have the money to buy and afford to make a model railroad but thanks to the internet it's starting to do better
I do not think this hobby is dying. I do think it is changing, for the reasons mentioned in this video and others as well. IMO, the biggest change is that the train community is getting more demanding. We know what we like and we can log onto any number of websites and see stellar examples of every facet of the hobby. It allows us to put such a fine focus on our interests that the brick & mortar shops need to choose between being huge enough to carry all the specialty pieces or being focused on a specific aspect. The privately owned stores face a very difficult challenge. Here's hoping they find a way. Because going into a shop where a friendly guy knows what he's talking about is always fun! And you learn more that way. Overall, I'd say this pastime will never go away just because so many of us are engineers. We love to build and solve problems. Thanks for the video!
I really appreciate your videos. O gauge RR is now being revived by Blunami my MTH engines were dying. I couldn't get boards and parts because MTH sold out. I almost sold everything before any more of engines died. Then I discovered Blunami. This will completely change the hobby.
Its not dying, it is morphing and some of the long timers in the hobby might not recognize the changes as being positive. Ive been involved since 2015 and have loved to see the innovation that has come in since then. Ive met a lot of people online who are apart of the community and help quell any negative thoughts one might have about the hobby from what they hear from people not in the hobby. I do have a few reservations about our largest manufacturer(cough cough Lionel) at the moment and have some ideas they could do to help. For now it seems to be doing ok. I am concerned about the lack of manufacturers currently and QC and part availability from them. Its getting a bit hard to justify buying a 1500$ engine if you are on your own after 1 year of owning it(especially if you only run them seasonally). I do enjoy the hobby but continued support and purchasing of newer items is getting harder to justify(really my only reservation at this time).
Oh no! Hopefully the new board fixes the problem. This is why I want to spend some more time experimenting with the DCC systems. They are less expensive but do take some tinkering. Thanks for watching
Rivet counters and gatekeepers are what kill the hobby or turn people off from it. You can build as nice a layout with Marx and Plasticville buildings as one can do with Weaver Scale O gauge and scratchbuilt.
I agree with the sentiment, but weaver trains right now for sale are cheap because they lacked sound. A great train for a good price. And you can get a 'sound' boxcar to add. Love Marx, and saw a few at York that I would take over Lionel any time.... BUT Plasticville, you went there. I just can't. I have all my Moms Pville and it is not coming out of the box. 😳
@@blackrocks8413 Plasticville's still popular with the folks who build "retro" layouts where nostagia and not realism is paramount. In fact, vintage Plasticville articles still in the box are collectibles in their own right.
Please do not sell your Trains. Your train set is amazing and you work so hard to make it that way out. It’s so amazing. Please do not give them up. I love your videos. I want them to keep coming.
All scales will be impacted by the roles trains play in our daily lives. Their efficiency should make them a growing part of transportation and commerce.
I think the hobby is safe but the issue for O Gauge is space. Have a basement no problem. I don't have one but I have O Gauge in a house I bought with that in mind. Younger guys like you are in the hobby. The train store I shop at is doing well. It is packed to the seams with O Gauge. A real MTH store too.
I dunno. I just preordered my first O-gauge train a month or so ago, one of the Lionel Dreyfuss Hudsons because of the stuff on youtube, so it might actually be growing. Granted I already had N-scale stuff but I'm new to O. As far as stuff like the York train show, I live close enough but I'm usually working. This year is no exception.
You know I started following some of you because my wife gave me the Harry Potter Lionel set for Christmas and I wanted to know about O Gauge trains (I have been collecting and running HO scale since I was a kid) but what I have discovered is that there seems to be much more of a community among O Gauge train enthusiasts (way more than I can find on UA-cam for people involved with HO scale trains) and it’s very encouraging to see many younger people with UA-cam channels involved with O Gauge trains. The point is that the hobby appears to be growing and is healthy because of all the train related UA-camrs and all of their followers - so the hobby is far from dying …
I like what you are talking about...I am a life long beginner, never have have a table or a perminent set up...we have a O-Gauge set we use at Christmas...every year, but the thing we have always enjoyed over the years is our local train show where we brouse and buy stuff cause we Train people. My Grand father was a fireman on an engine in upper ohio in the late 1800's and his father was a Brakeman on a Pensylvania line of the B&O before the Civil War...I have a very old Tenshendo BigBoy HO engine and tender...found at the last train show we went to...If I never drive it on track thats fine with me but...I would love to see it run at least once. Thanks for the excitement you always present! I am a 70 year old kid.
Chris, I am glad to hear that O gauge is doing fine. I recently had to make the switch to HO due to lack of space. I tried to make O gauge work but just just can't do it. I'll be selling my O gauge collection except for my fathers Lionel from late 40's / early 50's.
I have always enjoyed your videos, especially this one. You are right on in regards to the hobby. You do a lot for the model railroad community. Thank you.
I had a train set growing up hoping to be the engineer! Then I took a plane ride to see family members first time and that plane ride changed everything for me! Trains will always have a spot in my heart though!
The hobby is not dying. When I am seeing companies like Rapido taking risks in unique models that only been done in brass, I know its doing okay. I blieve O, HO, and N will always be around.
I feel with channels like these and other awesome model railroaders, it’s reaching new audiences that perhaps would never have thought to start a layout. Yes, it may never be what it was in the. 1950's, I feel it’s still has a healthy and growing enthusiast base. Just my two cents. 🚂
Thanks for being upfront and honest about what the O gauge/ railroading world is going through . I recently started collecting and expanding my O gauge Polar express into more modern cars and locomotives because of watching you o gauge guys . Its people like you who are true advocates for model trains and thanks for doing this.
Hey Chris! We definitely agree with you that this hobby is by no means dying. Just from our experience alone we've seen so many more people join the hobby who aren't just into model trains but are hardcore railfans that film and photograph the real thing. So it's been great to see people come into the hobby, who like ourselves, that spend most of their time chasing real trains and seeing them actually put trains together exactly like you would see in the real world but in model form. Another thing that has been great to see is the manufacturers really doing things that are new and innovative as far as locomotive types and or paint schemes that haven't been done before. A great example is our friends at Atlas Model Railroad Company. They have been doing some awesome stuff and we can't wait to see more from them! Also model railroading has brought a greater awareness to the importance of trains to our daily lives and how much they affect the things we use on daily basis. Plus there are those we know whose lives have been saved as a result of finding trains in one or both forms. So, the growth of model railroading has definitely played a huge part in promoting the importance of railroading and helping preserve it. This video was great and we applaud you for tackling a topic that to some can be pretty controversial 👍🏻 All the best from the Drewski's Trains and Travels crew! See you down the tracks!
Great video. One of the things that has encouraged me to get back in trains from another hobby of Flying RC Planes and jets is the fact that with Train modeling. I do not need an AMA membership or FAA membership. This in turn saves me money in the long run. I am sure I will pickup RC Flying again but probably not till the end of the year when things get more balanced in my life.
Good video ! I model n scale but love to see what others are doing in the hobby. O gauge is interesting to me for nostalgic reasons as well as the fact that lego buildings are close in scale.. Lol. What surprised me watching your videos is that O gauge doesn't have standardized control systems such as dcc. I couldn't say whether changing that would cause a resurgence in the hobby but it would be good to see. The brick and mortar stores that embraced online sales typically are the survivors. From a n scale modelers perspective, I think the hobby is doing just fine.
A wonderful video. I've been watching your videos for some time, but as of today, I now am a subscriber too. Even though I've been messing around with O gauge trains, specifically Lionel, since I was a kid in the 50's. I still consider myself a novice when it comes to this stuff. I got my first, and only as of now, Lionelchief set a couple of years ago and I love it. I've been able to acquire some items that I've always wanted too. Hopefully, when I get to our new house, I'll be able to really get going and build a nice layout. One of thing I should mention. In the 60's, I gave HO a try. It lasted for a few years, but I found it to be very tedious to work with, especially with a visual impairment. So when my kid brother called me some years ago and said he wanted me to take possession of our family Lionel collection, I found I couldn't get to his house fast enough. So far me two cents in this alive or dead thing, I'd say the hobby is evolving. Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this subject.
Great vidio, when i got back into the 0 gauge market about 8 years ago i spent 400. 00 on a lionchief pass. Set. and been adding to it since . Cheaper than golf, better than going out every night, and your family know where ya are. Great hobby.Thanks for the morning coffee...
Besides having trains as a kid I started vas a adult in 1970 and I have heard that O gauge is dying since 1970. The old guys said in 1970 that MPC would never last.Around 1986 or so when Richard bought Lionel that he was there to sell it off.when K-LINE and Weaver closed it was only another year or two that Lionel will close also. So you see Chris this is nothing new, the doom and gloom nay sayers are always there. Well 53 years later I am still playing with trains and I expect to for a long time with guys like you, JD, Chris and many others the hobby is the best and the trains get better every year. Thank you Chris
74 now grew up on S gauge in 2015 bought up everything I had from my grandfather from 1955 when he pasted. Cost me $4,500 long story Wife passed I moved gave it all to my very good old friend since 1968. Yeah wish I didn’t and can’t replace because of family issues. Heck if you can let it lay in your house DO SO keep the Faith. Mike
The model railroading hobby is booming i say ray, out of the different hobby shops i go to, one person bought over 3 dozen HO scale rolling stock and over a dozen in a half locomotives and other stuff to go with it and that was over a 2500.00 dollar sale.
You addressed this topic so well. Nice work! And I must say, as high school teacher, this was a great example of a thesis paper. 😂 I, as well as so many other people, support your position on this. Though just as so many people support you, so many will continue to be negative. We just need to move past the negativity, and show the joys in the hobby. This is something your channel has done so well. Thank you.
This comment made me so happy, lol. I was trying to make sure I put some kind of structure on this topic as it can be a hot button. :) Thanks for watching!
I also think the hobby is growing. I see and meet so many excited people at the York shows. Young and old, men and women..see you at york RBP! ( dont forget to mow your grass tomorrow).
When I began in model railroading as a Long Island guy, we had three great model railroad stores. In NYC there were I believe six or seven such stores. I was a member of the Long Island O gage Society. Eventually we got dumped from our apartment house cellar. Today, one of the stores on Long Island exists today. There are no other MR places in NYC. It’s mostly dead in the northeast.
![Bayan Hazrat Ibraheem [A . S] ki Shan PART 4](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MQj_f9Oh7Fo/mqdefault.jpg)
Wanted to have some fun for Halloween! O Gauge is here to stay and so am I! Enjoy!
Your edit is getting very good
I'm so glad you're here to stay.
Would you do New York Central Steam Please.
I'm not sure about "dying" but the hobby seems to go in its cycles, it might seem like it's dying because it's an expensive obscure hobby. You need money and space for it and with the housing market in shambles nobody has space and having to make at least 20$ an hour to live while minimum wage hasn't really changed much from the 7.25 an hour it's been at, most people are surviving not so much living so vary few people are buying this stuff.
Most stuff I have are from the 80s and 90s off ebay, newer stuff is far too expensive, everything in the new lionel catalogs are so expensive I don't even bother looking at them basically good for fire kindling.
And I think most people who get into this hobby are in their late 20s or early 30s when their finally somewhat stable and have their lives together which isn't a whole lot millennials had it rough so the average dude would probably look at this and be deterred by the prices.
They arnt dying just getting more expensive!
I will say, younger generations don’t seem to be as interested in model trains. Of course some will notice it more than others but you see way more older people than younger people. Of course the prices are definitely a problem. A child can’t afford as much as a steam engine. But, the fact that trains are getting less interesting (they’re still really interesting but not as much as companies unify the classes they use) is definitely staggering the amount of people to decide to pursue the hobby. I don’t know for other places though as I’m British but I’d assume it’s the same everywhere.
It's to expensive I love trains and want a layout but when it comes to toy trains or a sports car I'd rather the car. Don't get me wrong I am building a small layout but the buildings are lego marvel because that's somehow cheaper
I'm young and the prices scare me away. Just ridiculous for what you get. I could do HO for half and get double but I collect Department 56 pieces and the scale would be off with HO. So now I'm doing serious research to pick which one to do.
You wonder why the old school locomotives get gone so fast because the new ones don’t last near as long and were cheaper
Expensive means less people buy this junk
With guys like you at the helm, the hobby will never die.
And these people are even nicer in person than in there videos
I am just one of many Hobbyists out there who share a layout publicly but there are so many more model railroaders out there. Thank you for watching @anthonyvaldez9773!
The hobby is definitely not dying, but there are some divides in the hobby for sure. We did a video on this a while back as well with a few points not addressed in your video, namely the divide between those who prefer the older control systems vs DCC and wifi and also how the "gatekeepers" in the hobby relate to the average person. God forbid you run whatever you want on your layout, there WILL be negative comments about "prototype" and being "prototypical." There are too many gatekeepers in the hobby, and not enough of a welcoming attitude, especially towards young people. My 10 year old son has experienced this repeatedly at train shows.
Sorry to hear that this has happened to your son! I was at a train show last week and there were so many great people there. It was truly encouraging. :)
I personally don’t think that the hobby is dying. I used to think it was dying because of the insane prices of trains these days, but the best way to combat this isn’t to shop online, but to go out to flea markets, shows, and model shops. Online sellers like to crank the price up as high as possible but flea markets, shows and stores tend to be a lot more reasonable. The best deals I’ve found were two $300 steam engines going for 60 bucks a piece.
O scale is in trouble because hardly anybody has space for it. The main reason it was ever a thing is that people had more space and the technology to make them smaller was less affordable. These days, there's a scale for basically any sized space.
Thank you sir. Never thought of this.
And why did you find those steamers for such a low price? Because the hobby IS dying.
There must be a few guys going into the seniors homes and are unloading a pile of stuff and could use the money.
I don’t think it’s just the online stores. I used to buy a lot on eBay and had a very nice prr set up with about 5 trains running. I sold off a lot after moving and decided to put a gym where the even bigger set was gonna go. This was 6 years ago. I looked at what sets I used to have and the prices these idiots are trying to fetch is astronomical. I never would have bought them at the prices people are trying to get now and these sets I’ve been looking at aren’t selling on eBay at all. For instance I purchased the Bethlehem steel freight set new for about $220 bidding back in 2018 and there are multiple on eBay trying to fetch $500-$600. The set sold new for $399 when it came out. It’s just ridiculous across the board how the prices have gone up and I no longer have interest in another nice set up based off these prices. Yes, I could get older trains at swaps, shows, flea markets, but most of that stuff, I’m not interested in.
I am 49 now and got into O Gauge 3 or 4 years ago after picking up a postwar Lionel 675 train set on Craigslist from the original owner for $60 and immediately went to work cleaning the old set up. She runs great and is by far my favorite. I don't spend a lot of money on my layout, but have built a great setup that I raise and lower from my ceiling in the garage using a winch. It's based on my hometown in Warren, Arkansas and I'm having a great time building structures with 3D printing. The hobby isn't dead for me and I've introduced it to the kids in my family, in the same way it was introduced to me. So, I'm hopeful that these old O Gauge sets will still be going long after I am done on the planet.
I was involved decades ago and gave up my trains ( I wish I still had my tinplate now) because I moved into a small trailer. But I’m now 66 ( woman)and started a tiny layout because my father, uncles, grandparent all worked on a Shortline in their small mountain town. And I decided to try to collect the type of engines they worked with. My sister got involved and we scoured the Internet for old photos. Meanwhile a 75 yr old friend of mine found out and wanted to add a train set to her Humongous Village set. So she had me take her to a local train show to get her started with a simple HO setup. That was a year ago. While there we found an O gauge mining set. She owns a non working mining claim next to her home. So she had to have that set. Now She willingly drags me to shows. And got her grandnephews and nieces into her new obsession.
I think the issue now is that the New sets are geared towards collectors with such high prices. Bring back the starter sets that are not in the several hundreds of dollars and we would probably have a lot more people interested in this hobby. Not all of us need all the fancy bells and whistles. They are fun but I still prefer my old locomotives.
Hey, if you're hitting train shows with your friend you're going to do OK. Shows have a lot to offer and a lot to choose from so the hobby doesn't have to cost a fortune.
Part of the issue is also perceived value. You _can_ sell a starter set for hundreds of dollars but it needs to actually feel worth that money. KATO's full-consist starter sets are a good example if you don't mind them being N scale since you basically get an entire consist in the box with a significant amount of track (plus KATO's legendary reliability).
"I think the issue now is that the New sets are geared towards collectors with such high prices. "Yes, and at train shows I've seen the Lionel reps ignore parents and kids wanting a starter set because they only want to talk to people willing to spend $700+ for just a locomotive. MTH reps were great with kids, but now that that brand is on the decline . . . .
@@swdw973
The situation with MTH is more complex than just a decline. What happened is that the owner and founder passed, the company made a statement about closing their doors and sold all their modern diesel HO tooling to Scaletrains and most of everything else to Lionel, then decided to just downsize operations and start over instead, but because of that statement everyone still thinks they're gone.
Actually kinda parallels the situation with HPI over on the RC scene when you think about it. They're still around but few people seem to actually know that, and it seems like the people that do want things to stay that way.
@@VestedUTuber I know all about what's happened. But the parts website that was supposed to be fully operational as a stand alone business by now isn't. The updated control systems that were supposed to be out by the split off DCS group has only released the combined WiFi DCS. Nothing else has been talked about. The production is only special runs, usually high end stuff. And that is limited to only the models they were unable to sell to other manufacturers. To me, add it all up and you have a decline as none of the offshoots are doing very well.
The Hobby isnt dying, its just a lot less popular than it once was and the prices really put it off for some people, if anything id see people buying them for display rather than running
I think ho and n have gained popularity
@@williammacdonald3173
You say that like HO wasn't already the most popular scale in the hobby in both the US and mainland Europe. But yeah, N scale is definitely on the rise.
@@VestedUTuber That sounds about right. My Dad's set was O because he had the space for it when he was a kid and there were fewer options then. I started out on HO back in the '90s, but these days my interest is in N, just because I can have the space for a relatively interesting layout with plenty of stuff to do other than just model it once and run the train around a simple loop.
O is likely not ever going to be as popular as it was, at least not until housing prices drop a lot. It's expensive needing all that extra space to house a train layout. Especially when HO, N and ohter smaller options exist.
@@VestedUTuberit's it's also popular here in Australia too. I have been in the hobby for about 3 yrs now. At my local train club there are quite a few younger kids getting involved in the hobby. So don't think that the hobby is dying. As for price of ho and n scale trains I tend to agree they're both pretty popular and they're definitely have gotten expensive in last 2 year's. I how ever don't agree with the opinion that online seller's inflat the price. Of some model trains. There are lots of reasons why some model trains are more expensive than other's online depends on the maker functions weather it's DCC sound or just DC that could also depends on why the prices you may see online is expensive . Here in Australia we don't have The luxury of having a local model train store. Just in The neighbourhood. We have to to The bigger cities. Then again they are very few and far between. That is why alot of modellers use the online.
About 2 months ago I visited Miniatur Wunderland in Germany, and believe it or not it is the most visited place in all of Germany. This place everyday, is packed with visitors
Starter sets are not getting more expensive either, if you apply for the price of inflation a LionChief would cost about $680 compared to a starter set in the 1950's. Now is O scale dying, I can't say. HO is still number 1. But since Menards has jumped into the business, I think that is helping O scale.
BTW, I don't care if you are G, Z or O scale, I recommend to everyone to go to Hamburg Germany and go to Miniatur Wunderland, it's amazing. And if you go with your spouse, they will come out loving it.
I don't think the mid to high level of the hobby is going anywhere, but I do think that the entry level stuff is getting either crazy expensive or crap quality. O gauge needs a good quality cheaper entry level set to get more kids into the hobby.
Another aspect is 3D printing and how it has really grow into model railroading.
I TOTALLY agree! Cory Mears
Menards is putting out some great entry level trains
RMT (Ready Made Trains) and secondary K-Line are also good options.
@@sircharles461 Knock the set down to 100-150$ and remove the soundset and we've got a proper entry level set...as is 220-250 is too much for entry lvl
For example when I was a kid my mom wouldn't spend over 100 on a trainset I barely got the lionel one I grew up with
220? Would be completely out of the question in the realms of NO
But the rest of menards lineup looks fine for entry lvl trains, cheap cars that have been getting better and remain at 20 a car
That doesn't solve the larger problem that is space. You need quite a lot of space for something as large as O. Or, you're stuck settling for a simple oval with a couple switch yards. My N layout is pretty tiny and I can do a lot with it in the space I've got available. It's still quite expensive, but at least I'm not stuck paying a lot of money for rent on the extra square footage to hold the thing.
I had O-gauge in the mid 1950s as a child with nicely detailed steam engine and passenger cars all from Lionel!
Years later I saw a friend's layout and he had a smaller train set that was even more detailed and unlike my set with 3 rails, his only had 2 rails. It looked so realistic as the engine pulled a string of freight cars along a mountainside. He told me that it was called HO. From then I was hooked! Sorry but those three rails had to go if I wanted to strive for realism.
Mom later sold my O-gauge set when I went off to college. I lucked into a complete set of HO from a friend a few houses away who just got tired of them and wanted to try something else. He asked something crazy like $14 for his two HO steam engines and a small yard switcher, along with about a dozen cars, switches, and transformer!
I found a second hand store in KY years ago that had a box under a table with 8 steam engines and tenders in it. The lady told me $2.00 a piece for them (engine + tender). I bought them all on the spot. Took them home and immediately began testing them.
Took them apart and cleaned and lubed as needed and all but one ran perfectly! The last one had an issue that was finally made with my dremel tool and a steady hand. Eight engines and tenders for less than $20. Which was the cost of several lunches back then but so worth it!!
I'm now in my early 70s and passed on my collection to my only son, who likewise enjoys them! Keep the hobby alive!
The hobby isn't dying....things are getting more expensive.
Your collection is amazing as is your enthusiasm and I wish you the best. To each their own. Happy New Year!!
I have been in model trains since about 1975 in HO and now in HO and O scale. What was once a Christmas hobby has evolved into a year-round hobby now. The hobby was once a local train shop, Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsmen, and maybe a local train show. Now it has exploded with new technology, You Tube sites, Facebook groups, online chat groups, online ordering, and Bluetooth to just name a few. The hobby is not dying, it is changing and evolving, and I am glad that I am able to see it and enjoy all the people that share their model trains on the different platforms because I always see something and wow, why didn't I think of that, I might need to try that idea.
I agree, O and some of the larger options may die out, but with the number of scales and gauges to choose from, there's a decent option for anybody with the money to get set up. And, once you've got a basic loop, train and controls, most of the rest can be done incrementally as you have cash and time.
I sure do miss the local train stores. I remember at one point in time we had seven or eight shops just in central Indiana. Now we’re down to one.
They are being removed and replaced by online
It’s easier to scam people online cause you can’t run it online and if it dosent work the customer can’t get back to the shop owner and then they lost their koney
Great video Chris, very well put together. As long as there are people who enjoy trains, model railroading will never die! 💖
Chris, this was probably one of the best analysis of the current state of our hobby. My standout measure that the hobby is growing and not dying is social media. Their is a common factor in your channel and the others you mentioned. You guys are YOUNGER than the typical collectors we see at York. My highest percentage viewer age group is 25-34 (beating 65+ by a point). As an IT data analyst and geographer all of the indicators show growth not decline. Only thing we know for sure is that eventually older hobbyist will die but their collections will live on with younger hobbyist. Thus is the oval track of life....
Awe…
One thing I would add to this as someone who left O gauge and now does HO and N. Is the availability and level of detail in smaller scale trains. It’s now comparable to O and when I go to shows I see more and more people buying smaller scale stuff compared to O.
eh the details are ok , Its the prices of the smaller scale thats more attractive espically in the current economy.
@@kidamere2408 if you look at the top end stuff in HO and N it is currently comparable to Legacy or premier line stuff. That’s from what I’ve seen at least.
they seem ok better then have been @@jacksonthomas1851
O gauge is the epitome of undetailed toyish trains, O scale 2R is tolerable but N is where its at.
lol@@AbelG8781
I’m 12 and I love this hobby because I do it with my dad and I get to learn about railroads/and my dad used to work for up
Great video as always Chris! One of the things that's most encouraging to me is the change in style of UA-cam videos in recent years. A few years ago, most model train videos were just formal product reviews and layout updates. Now channels like yours, Adaumus, and others are having fun making them, including goofy humor, etc. I think that's really encouraging for the hobby as a whole and I agree it is on the rise.
I’m a dollhouse hobbyist and always lean toward smaller scales. I’m making my first O gauge of our new home build and I’m instantly addicted. I think in our minimalist leaning society this hobby seems perfectly slated for growth!
Chris, in my opinion YOU are O Gauge, YOU are the future, along with JD Strucks are the future of Lionel, MTH, Atlas and others are our HOPR of next generation O Gauge train enthusiasts. I appreciate all YOU do! Thanks for keeping our hobby in good health and for being a leader in this hobby's growth. Michael Grandinetti VP of National Sales at American Millwork......And long time Lionel train, Classic Toy Train guy.
As long as trains are in this world, railway modeling will never die.
Hello! Yes, the model railroaders are dying out...the locomotives are becoming more and more expensive , are often only to be used as showcase models and are often more unreliable in their functions than old models.
The one thing I'd say about it is that while the hobby definitely isn't _dying,_ it's definitely in a non-fatal decline. But it's for various issues beyond just "lack of interest". Cost of entry, continued costs and expenses, availability of locomotives and rolling stock, etc.
Yes, also keep in mind that there's more tech toys available now for them to compete with during their peak and people in general have less space, less money and work more than they did back then.
Expensive..was the key word.. young boys & yes girls are not being introduced to trains.. these days hand phones etc young people are into...sad times😢
I've wanted to build a specific layout for years but I was unable to for various reasons. But now I'm in my 60's and I've got a new excitement for it and I've been watching hundreds of UA-cam videos and I'm ready to build my layout. With all the UA-cam videos out there I definitely don't see the hobby dying at all.
Hey, go for it! And remember, it's YOUR layout, make it as plain or fancy as you like.
One thing I'd advise you to do (and I give this advice to everyone starting out) is get the trains up and running as soon as you can, don't worry about scenicking, that can follow. Getting trains running will give you a sense of accomplishment and prepare you for the next steps.
As I like to put it the layout is the stage and the trains are the actors. Good actors can give a great performance on a bare stage but the best-dressed stage is useless without the actors.
Thanks
@@Bigdog5899 You're welcome!
Its funny that this was uploaded today. Earlier I went to my friends because he had gotten a bunch of lionel trains from his grandpa. So me and another friend went over, and we set up the trains, ran them all, and had a lot of fun. It was really cool because i have always been into trains, but my friend's not so much, but by the end of the day we all were really into it, my friends even wanted to go to a show with me. I think to me it shows that the interests in the hobby is very much alive, and those who really experience it enjoy it.
Sometimes the sights, sounds, smells, and hands-on of O Gauge trains are all it takes to make converts. I think because it's something that's REAL. not a moving shadow on a video screen.
I've lost track of how many train show visitors I've seen watching club displays and grinning wide enough to eat a banana sideways! Catchin' the fever all right!
Dying? No getting restored and upgraded I have started. ENGINE 246 Lionel O gauge that I remember as a kid I now have. I took it to a shop in Sarasota and repairs are being made. Would like to show pictures but can't here.
I don't think the hobby is fully dying yet, but it is getting to the point where unless you have someone already into the hobby or a good paying job your kinda out of luck. Model trains at one time use to be for all levels of train Fandom from beginner/budget up to serious/burn my wallet xD fans but now it seems like it's only for the higher up part of the fan base and it saddens me to see that those that where beginners or budget people like myself where you could get say an HO scale starter set for 50 bucks and just slowly grow your collection over time have been run out of the hobby as nothin is as cheap as it use to be and I regret getting rid of my collection when I was in high school in the early 2000s now 😢
Good observations and video. That's why we need young guys like yourself to take the hobby to the future. At 71, I try not to be negative and complain. You are so right in your statements. ALWAYS an enjoyable time listening and seeing you with your trains. Hope to see you at the meet and great Saturday at York.
This is one of the most important videos you have done. I want to comment on one particular section, the videos done by Sid and Johnny about the Blunami decoder board. Coincidentally, I stumbled across their videos last night and was amazed at what they were doing. I have an older but really nice MTH K4 in which the electronics are "fried". I have been tinkering with it adding simple electronics to replace the basic functions but it is slow work. Sid's and Johnny's videos made me realize that there really is a very clean solution to get, what is now a brick, functioning actually better than it ever did. This is a really important area of innovation without which there is no long term solution for failed, obsolete electronics - something that has made me really concerned for the long term future of our happy. Thank you for helping to spread the word and thanks to Sid and Johnny for their videos.
People are always lamenting how this is a post-retirement age hobby and when the elderly pass on there won’t be anything left, while missing the fact that more people are reaching retirement age every day…
Not to mention those who had trains in their youth, drifted away while approaching adulthood, then rediscovering the hobby once they've gained some stability in their lives.
@RailRide yup that's me...spent a ridiculous amount on DCC diesel Loco's and started building a intermodal layout
@@RailRidethis is me, I’m around my mid 20s and I have rebuilt my layout that my dad built me as a kid. Just bought two engines and some rolling stock a few weeks ago. Been making the mountain and tunnels over the summer, now I need to do some wiring
In an era when even the previously shunned MPC trains are actually becoming collectible it’s hard to say O gauge is dying. As a toy, trains will never be king again, but true model railroading and toy and model train collecting has always been a niche market and that’s not going away.
I bought online from Brady's and drove to checkout their tent sale, even picked up a few extra things while there.
If people say O gauge is dying, I'd hate to see what they say about Standard/Wide Gauge and S scale.
At least not everyone is getting out of the hobby I’m building my layout right now and I’m not even 15 so this layout will last for a while👍🏻
Returning modeler here (currently 25 yrs old), one of the convenient things of model railroading is the different model sizes. For those in apartments or small spaces the comfort scale is N scale. I came from HO scale as a child and had a lot of fun with it, but now that I'm older with a fresh start, I am having fun creating my little world in a new space. My bread and butter is Amtrak with other modern or old trains (mainly Kato) and the models keep getting better and better.
You talk about getting creative. That's the 100% truth. For me was a space issue. After about a 10 year pause from trains I woke up one day and said "im taking my trains oitside" over the years I made ALL my o guage trains battery power and remote control like g scale. Now I get to enjoy the hobby again and loving it!!
Lionel has expanded its brick and mortar into Nashville. So brick and mortar is not dead. Recently visited Charles Ro in Malden MA and their business is good. Shelves are stocked with everything. Glad to see you're back Chris. I was getting a little worried about you.
Nice job in summarizing the state of our hobby. I agree with your statement that we are in a transition, but the hobby is definitely not dying. With the recent Atlas/MTH collaboration agreement and Menards releasing their first set, the outlook is still positive, but different.
At best the market is shrinking in this transition... Go to shows and look at the age of most of the people walking out with armloads of stuff. Not young people for sure.
Go online to the various model train forums... Not a lot of younger guys on those either.
Is the hobby dying for sure? I honestly don't know, but I've been in it for the better part of 35yrs and I don't see the majority of people at shows staying about the same age, all I see is older "baby boomers" with a lot of disposable income. Not a lot of younger people, other than the very young kids and their parents, who are not necessarily into the hobby, but just there for their kids.
Thanks for making this video. (I did watch all the way to the end.) Model railroading is changing, but not going away. My recent move provided me with a small but dedicated room in which to build a new layout. My new housemate recently admitted he had thought that old men playing with trains was silly. Now that he has seen me get some old American Flyers locomotive running again, complete with smoke and chuff-chuff, and seeing my cattle yard in action with cows walking around and moving into a stock car, he doesn't thing this is silly, and is becoming intrigued. The growth of my UA-cam channel, also says to me that model trains still draw interest from those just discovering the hobby. Even where I live where the last, and only, rail line literally went away about 100 years ago, trains still have a magical draw.
I had to chuckle when you mentioned the way your housemate reacted to the trains at first. I think we all know someone who thought the same thing and then saw the layout come to life. You have a great Channel as well and I look forward to seeing what is next! Keep inspiring!
The demand for Conrail in model form may be a result of 2 Conrail Heritage units being unveiled and taking to their respective mainlines over the summer. CSX releasing theirs in July and Metro North releasing theirs in August so it would make some sense for modelers to want some representation of Conrail after those railroads have brought it back to the front of peoples mind. Well, also Norfolk Southern announcing their intentions to refurbish their heritage units may have played a much smaller part as well, as they were the first to do a Conrail heritage unit.
Also, Conrail's been gone as a corporate entity (CSAO aside) marginally longer than it was as a separate railroad. That's long enough for the nostagia factor to start kicking in.
One group of modelers is also getting a boost. Live steam. There are many people my age and even younger (22 years or less) who are involved in this hobby. It mostly involves trains from 1:16 to 1:8 scale. 1:8 Scale is most popular.
I got into model railroading when I was 28 yrs old and now at 42 I'm starting on a layout
Enjoy the build!
I was forced to be an armchair modeler because of my parents.
Got good at a lot of things.
Reading and making prints, scenery, infrastructure, grades and elevations, construction, cartography, by making very detailed layout plans, electrical, and so much more.
Fifteen years later, I was offered a job in construction, excavating and grading.
Since I already knew what was supposed to be under the ground as well as above it, slipping in to the role was easy.
Three weeks in, I was the guy on the transit, measuring the grade of a complicated job.
Kept all the calculations in my head, and made my reference marks alongside the dig.
We got done, loaded the machine, and went back to the shop.
The company owner asked where I went to school for Civil Engineering!
Told him that I was a model railroader.
I explained that it was a great deal more than “playing with trains,” and told him all that went with it.
He never asked about my skills ever again.
Even had me bidding massive jobs.
I must have learned something from that hobby, maybe?
BTW, “modeling” in 1:1 is a whole lot easier on the brain, because half the math of shrinking things is gone!
Great video Chris!
Thanks for posting it. I'll say that I agree with you on the points you noted.
Chris great video on the subject. I have to agree with what you had say. The hobby is changing it’s not dying. Most of the people that are saying it is the old crowd. I’m in that group at 72 and I have to tell you I love what has happened to it and I’m always looking forward to the new innovations. I believe it’s great that you and the UA-cam community are out there helping. Keep up the great job. I’ll be looking forward to future videos.
Hattons shut down. The biggest model shop in the uk closed after 70 years of service. Our hobby is dying out. 😢
BROTHERMAN, they ain't dying, we are!!!! Great video Chris, KEEP THEM COMMING BRO aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! COOL MAN COOL!!! O GAUGE WILL NEVER DYE!! 😜🤪😝😁😍😋😛❤🧡💛💜🖤🤟🤘👍👍👍👍
I’m an ho scale guy i don’t think the hobby is dying. If the hobby was dying there would be no new products and there would be a lot more being sold in the internet so they could get rid of them. I see trains being sold for thousands of dollars. If the hobby was dying those train wouldn’t be sold. I sit in my basement for hours playing with my model trains and I never get bored of them
I went from HO to O gauge and am loving it so much more animated Great analaogy of the hobby
Which is great if you've got the space. The unfortunate bit is that most people don't have the space these days.
I repair a number of O and O27 Gauge trains. as well as HO. In the last two years I have seen my little business grow. Not to mention the number of people that I have been in contact with, either in finding parts or selling what I have repaired. Train shows are what got me in this very enjoyable hobby. I love it and spread the word
Friday afternoon, my neighborhood had a block party. I opened the garage and ran the trains for all to see. I let the kids run them, answered a ton of questions and everyone had a good time. I had nearly as many adults as kids checking things out.
For O Gauge / Scale specifically. Collector and prototypical demand may be up. But unless there is a big increase in beginner and intermediate sets, the hobby will run into a demographic decline that will make it a much smaller hobby. Lionel doesn't seem to be interested in this topic. I'm one of those people that has to go out on the secondary market, as new prices are too high. What most people don't consider, is the increase in interest in the secondary market is mostly due to cost. And in that market, most of the sales are transferring trains from one user that is getting out of the hobby to one that is interested, so your net gain in hobbyists is barely somewhere around zero. The newer users are more apt to make videos, but that doesn't mean you have a huge upswing in users.
Why do I think Lionel doesn't care about new users? At train shows, I've seen the Lionel reps ignore parents w/ kids and adults interested in starting who want a starter set, because they only want to talk to people willing to spend $700+ for just a locomotive. MTH reps were great with kids, but now that that brand is on the decline . . . .
Great points and thank you for sharing. I thought it was neat that Lionel attended Comic-Con in New York last week. They reached a massive new audience as those shows tend to draw very large crowds. Definitely not a situation where they were looking for train enthusiasts, but rather, were looking for families. If Lionel keeps this focus on reaching out to new people, it may turn the tide on the perception that they only cater to the enthusiast-level collector. Thanks for watching!
Spot on, there are few new entrants into the hobby
For my observation, The biggest thing in recent years is the growth of O Gauge UA-cam channels. You and your friends have become the new ambassadors for O Gauge railroading. I am sure the UA-cam videos have encouraged more people to enter the hobby. And the UA-cam videos have transformed into new faces at the shows. Thanks to you and your friends for all you have done.
Without inspiration from those who have been doing this before us, none of us would be doing this today. Thank you for all of your support of the channel and it was great seeing you last week at York!
@@RBPTrainsawe…
I'm an ho scale modeler, and I recently joined a club in my area, and one thing I noticed when I joined is that my club has a good few young members. Like, in elementary or middle school. I feel the model railroad sector is doing well and will continue to do well
My two best friends and I started building our first layout a couple years ago. Once a year we have an open house. We get more than 40 enthusiastic visitors and it is only 1/4 done. People love model trains
Another great video Chris. Agree with you 100%! Keep up your fine work and hope to catch you at one of the shows. I will be at York this Friday.
At York a few days ago we heard more than one vendor comment this was the lowest turnout they had seen. My observation is that in the aisles there were people buying but I did not see many buying engines or higher end cars. On Fri we bought a set of six pass cars that were marked 500 for 200. To me that shows low demand, not high.
Other club members who are club veterans tell me hearing "York isn't what it used to be!" has been the cry of the chronic complainers for years. I don't know what the attendence was at this York show but at April's it was 9000. As one veteran told me "9,000 visitors may not be the 'Old York' but it's still pretty damn respectable! A lot of other train shows would love to have that number!"
As far as pricing's concerned keep in mind that aside from the band new articles it's whatever the market will bear.
I definitely agree with your points here, but I think the big issue with the O Gauge Market (and the model train market in general) have been making entry level stuff so expensive, that they’re pricing out the average Joe who may want to get into the hobby. Starter sets will now set you back nearly $500, and it’s difficult to find something of a good quality for a reasonable price. I’m hoping companies like Menards shows the “Big Boys” like Lionel the benefits of making good quality, ready-to-run offerings for a good price.
This was fantastic! Verry nice O set up.i have a large N scale collection and when somthing new comes out .if u dont buy right away you cant find it later.i think trains accross the board will be stronger.there is a want for somthing u can touch and hold verses what is on a computer screan.well done!
As long as we keep introducing the hobby to the younger generations it will continue to grow. As I did with Caleb from a very young age, let them be part of everything. Show them not only how to run the trains but also the scenery, wiring, etc. Let them truly be part of the fun. Great video, Chris. Happy Railroading!
You and Caleb are an inspiration! My Dad introduced me and my brother when we were kids and we have both kept it rolling in our family as well. Thanks for watching!
My dad started me into Lionel trains as well. You are a great asset to the model train community. Oh and by the way, you’re Caleb’s favorite UA-camr. Keep doing what you do. Happy Railroading!
I'm a rookie as far as to building dioramas, but I am a big railfan who wants to build his own layout and I'm seeing more and more people building layouts of every sizes. And in all honesty, I can't wait to start building my very first layout and learn all there is to the hobby.
I agree RBP, I don't think model railroading is declining. There is something special about going to the train store and seeing all the trains there on the shelf but this is the world we live in today with all the online buying. While the online buying of trains is great, I hope that the old fashioned train store can stick around too. Great video
OK so I was going to post this on my own channel but here are my thoughts. This is a direct flood or my own throughts that I typed out and was going to use as a script so it's a little long-winded. you've been warned
Hey guys, Shane here. I wanted to touch on a subject that has been covered lightly in some of my other videos but never been the focus. And that is the question I see all the time. "Is the model railroad hobby dying?" And my answer to this is.. possibly, but not entirely. It's a little more complicated than a "yes" or "no" answer. It's a bit like Schroedinger's cat. Is it dead, or is it alive? Nobody can be sure until we open the box. So let's dive into pandora's box and hope we don't unlock the lament configuration.
Model railroads can be traced all the way back to the 1830's as miniatures of trains made by German artisans out of molded brass and famously in the mid 1850's one was had by the young sun of French Emperor Napoleon the 3rd. It was definitely reserved for the super wealthy as things were hand crafted by skilled craftsman and each one was a one-off work of art. The model railroading hobby as we know it really came about in the late 1800's thanks to efforts of Marklin Model Railways. Whom was able to manufacture an electric powered set that met the detail and reliability standard of the American market as prior European models had been deemed too fragile or poorly detailed.
As we move into the 20th century we see a very prominent name show up. a young inventer named Joshua Lionel Cowen founds Lionel Manufacturing and by 1906 has brought the first O scale 3-rail electric model train set to market. This was the gold standard for model railroading but they weren't alone. The Marx company started production in the mid 1930's and brought competetion to Lionel in their own scale offering models which were, at the time, more affordable although lacking in some of the reginements of Lionel. Lionel and Marx filled homes with many wonderful O-scale offerings up through the 70's at which time Lionel stood at the top of the hill of O-scale as Marx, as a company, ceased operations in 1980.
Many sight a paradigm shift in the 1950's as a downturn in model railroading in favor of electric slot car sets and the like . I attribute a more broad phenomonon. Not long after WW2 the united states experienced a massive economic boon. Automobile ownership came to the common working man, rail travel had declined heavily in favor of affordable air travel and the launch of the jet age in the mid 50's with the introduction of the legendary Boeing 707 (honorable mention to the British Dehaviland comet as being the actual first jet liner to see revenue service) And also the space race against the soviet union spuring imaginations of children the world over into high tech toys and gadgets. In this, model railroads seem to be a thing of the past. Yet they soldiered on. With the introduction of several manufactureres of HO scale making model railroads smaller and more easily set up in confined areas the model railroad seemed to experience a small surge in popularity again in the 60's all the way through the 80's. I see a few factors in this. One being the birth of Amtrak which breathed new life into passenger rail service not only in the commuter but travel industries, and possibly part to do with a certain creepy, cooky, mysterious and spooky individual and his legendary antics with his O-scale set.
Ok so that gets us into the 80's when I was born. So now I can offer first person experiences. When I was a kid growing up in a working class household I used to drive around with my dad everywhere when he had to run errands, usually on the weekends, and we'd see trains all the time as a result. Hauling freight mostly in my area. And I loved seeing them. And when I was a kid I remember my first set being a simple Lionel steamer with an oval of track. And I would play with that often on my bedroom floor. But my real love for model railroading began in the late 80's / early 90's when dad bought me my first HO scale set and set up a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the garage. This set was a Life-Like Rail Blaster kit. Not fancy even by the standards of the times but rather than a steam locomotive which i'd only seen on TV it brought diesels that I had actially seen my whole life (although Chessie didn't run in my area). And I was hooked. As I imagine many kids were in the 80's as well.
Unfortunate for the model railroad industry there was a digital phenomonon taking the world by storm. The home video console revolution was upon us. And myself, as well as my younger brothers, friends, etc. were all-in by the early 90's with Nintendo, Sega, etc. It is this, i feel, that really set the stage for where we are at now which is an ever-increasing reliance on digital goods not only for our day-to-day with emails, social media, etc. but our hobbies as well in the form of console and computer games. Personally I didn't even mess with a model railroad set again till I was in my mid 30's. And it's that gap that I believe most of the industry was lost in. Which is why you see very large devide in age in model railroads, Most of my viewers are 65 years or older. Only 3% are my age (30's and 40's) and less than a single percent any younger. There are those out there, Grandparents, older fathers, uncles, older brothers, etc. still in the hobby trying to pass it on to younger generations but as I have seen myself most just don't seem interested in anything other than their electronic devices.
There is movement on the front of electronic devices as it pertains to trains, however, both in digital offerings for the physical model railroad in DCC, computer control, etc. and in actual computer and console games such as Trainz, Train Sim World, and Derail Valley to name a few. However these are still mostly the domain of us Gen Z and older folk.
So is the hobby dying? Maybe. But not because of the obvious reasons. Even as somebody whom is relatively mature, intelligent, and fairly handy when it comes to doing my own research I ask questions from time to time. And usually these questions are asked in forums like facebook groups, comments on other youtube videos, etc. And what I have seen, in reply to not only myself but MANY others, is a rather dismissive, rude, and otherwise grouchy community. People seem to think that anybody that has less experience or knowledge at somebody than they do is an idiot and should have known the answer to their "stupid" question since it's been asked "a million times". And you know what? That's not helping anybody and yet I see it in virtually every online community i'm a member of. This is not how you share a hobby or get others involved. You exchange ideas, you answer the questions, you show how, you show pictures, videos, etc. of you enjoying the hobby. We are fortunate to have some very good UA-camrs out there such as Jimmy with DIY and Digital, Tom Kovichak with Tom's Trains and Things, Chris with RBP Trains, Steve with Steve's Trains, Dan Cortopassi's channel, and the list goes on. These gentlemen are sharing the how to's, the answers, and their love of the hobby. We just need to get more young people out there to watch. We need to get trains in our schools, maybe get involved with your local club to have a show and tell at a school or an open house at a local layout. Get the kids in there, let them play, answer their questions, get them interested. Otherwise this fantastic hobby will certainly die, Not overnight, but slowly,
Only time will tell. It's really up to us, the current generations of model railroaders, to try to keep it alive. to get the kids involved. Gift a starter set, let the nieces and nephews run your trains, take them to ride a train, take them to a museum. Get them involved. But more than anything, BE NICE. Otherwise it's all going to fade away. And we can't call ourselves true enthusiasts if we allow that to heppen.
I've been enjoying model railroads as a hobby for 20 years. The new prices have pushed me out of the buying. Lionel has been awful as as far as getting the missing parts for the TWO legacy gp's I purchased a couple years back. Mth? Who knows with them. I spent $450 on an engine that fried within a month. I make decent $$$ but I'm not willing to spend anymore. They send items for UA-cam channels to show. Then they don't service them when they arrive with missing parts.
@Blur4strike The Facebook groups are heavy with hostility.
@@muir8009That was the best I could come up with via Google 🙃
Good comment :) please don't take this the wrong way of course, but just a little bit of fyi: Lionels 0 was 1915, introduced after dropping the trolley line and to enter into the market in competition with Ives with the forced withdrawal of Bing and to a lesser extent marklin (remember bing had the lions share of the US market, one that Ives was battling against. Marklin had for 1914 a big push planned to launch into the US market, but fairly obviously that plan didn't come to fruition.
The fragility and detail of the Europeans wasn't really quite there to satisfy market trends.
Whereas skilled tinsmiths were a dime a dozen in Europe and manufacturers could afford laborious construction and painting methods the US manufacturers found it economically beneficial to just use cast iron. Lots of detail in the initial molding, paint just dipped, and expensive labour costs could be kept down to just the initial casting process.
And just too add marklin combined a few existing ideas into the one basket, planck having already had an electric train, issmayer the track system etc.
I feel that the model railway scene not dying, no way. It's just turned into a hobby for model railroaders, as opposed to a universal hobby.
Never had a FB account myself. Or Twitter. Still I keep a finger on the pulse of general things in the social-media world, and...well...
...the Facebook groups are toxic to newbies? Imagine my shock 🤣
One thing I've seen demonstrated time and time again (and this isn't just in model railroading) for _years_ on end, is that it's one thing to _know_ your stuff...it's an entirely different ball of wax to be able to _teach_ it.
Knowing that, I strive to answer elementary-sounding questions in an easy-to-grasp style that informs the uninitiated here on UA-cam (and often get thanks from the questioner in return). The bulk of my online train-related activity besides watching stuff here, is on O Gauge Railroading 's forum, which has been in operation for around 23 years now, and I still offer detailed responses to the kinds of questions that some 'old heads' resort to _"use the search function"_ replies (as in most affairs, the info you get often depends on _how_ you word your search terms, and it isn't always obvious what will get you the info you're looking for)
Now if I could only cobble together enough unstructured time to resume enough operations to make and post videos again...I've acquired so much since the last one I posted (and so much that hasn't _had_ the chance to perform for the camera even before that). It amazes me how some of my old videos (subways and Acela) are still accumulating views despite the bare-bones infrastructure I have to operate on.
Don't think the hobby is dying at all.. As for Lionel they've stepped up their trains making them more realistic and prototypical in size. But with the growth of both N Scale and HO, it's better now, then before.
"As for Lionel they've stepped up their trains making them more realistic and prototypical in size."
And bumping up their prices in the process.
Some of the ones that claim that the hobby is dying is more of older men dying and some of their next generation of family have little to no interest like the estate auction of a large collection of MTH and K-Line, along with some postwar. There is still young fans getting into the hobby, having class I railroads doing heritage units to gain more interest helps
I think the biggest problem is how hard it is for new people to afford to get in the hobby, because their will always be an intrest in model railroading but the young people don't have the money to buy and afford to make a model railroad but thanks to the internet it's starting to do better
I do not think this hobby is dying. I do think it is changing, for the reasons mentioned in this video and others as well. IMO, the biggest change is that the train community is getting more demanding. We know what we like and we can log onto any number of websites and see stellar examples of every facet of the hobby. It allows us to put such a fine focus on our interests that the brick & mortar shops need to choose between being huge enough to carry all the specialty pieces or being focused on a specific aspect. The privately owned stores face a very difficult challenge. Here's hoping they find a way. Because going into a shop where a friendly guy knows what he's talking about is always fun! And you learn more that way.
Overall, I'd say this pastime will never go away just because so many of us are engineers. We love to build and solve problems.
Thanks for the video!
I've been a model railroader since elementary school and I've absolutely loved it since.
I really appreciate your videos. O gauge RR is now being revived by Blunami my MTH engines were dying. I couldn't get boards and parts because MTH sold out. I almost sold everything before any more of engines died. Then I discovered Blunami. This will completely change the hobby.
In my fifties and just getting started with my layout. Never too old to start. Makes me smile every time I work on it.
Agree! Building the layout was the most fun part for me.
Its not dying, it is morphing and some of the long timers in the hobby might not recognize the changes as being positive. Ive been involved since 2015 and have loved to see the innovation that has come in since then. Ive met a lot of people online who are apart of the community and help quell any negative thoughts one might have about the hobby from what they hear from people not in the hobby. I do have a few reservations about our largest manufacturer(cough cough Lionel) at the moment and have some ideas they could do to help. For now it seems to be doing ok. I am concerned about the lack of manufacturers currently and QC and part availability from them. Its getting a bit hard to justify buying a 1500$ engine if you are on your own after 1 year of owning it(especially if you only run them seasonally). I do enjoy the hobby but continued support and purchasing of newer items is getting harder to justify(really my only reservation at this time).
Tbh yes, I just upgraded my primer J to Proto sound 2 but the board gave out so I need to speed about 400 for a new kit and services fees
Oh no! Hopefully the new board fixes the problem. This is why I want to spend some more time experimenting with the DCC systems. They are less expensive but do take some tinkering. Thanks for watching
Rivet counters and gatekeepers are what kill the hobby or turn people off from it. You can build as nice a layout with Marx and Plasticville buildings as one can do with Weaver Scale O gauge and scratchbuilt.
I agree with the sentiment, but weaver trains right now for sale are cheap because they lacked sound. A great train for a good price. And you can get a 'sound' boxcar to add. Love Marx, and saw a few at York that I would take over Lionel any time.... BUT Plasticville, you went there. I just can't. I have all my Moms Pville and it is not coming out of the box. 😳
@@blackrocks8413 Plasticville's still popular with the folks who build "retro" layouts where nostagia and not realism is paramount. In fact, vintage Plasticville articles still in the box are collectibles in their own right.
Please do not sell your Trains. Your train set is amazing and you work so hard to make it that way out. It’s so amazing. Please do not give them up. I love your videos. I want them to keep coming.
Not to worry! The trains are not going anywhere. :) This was more of a commentary video for fun. Thank you for watching @Thomas-tank!
Thanks for the indepth, objective overview of the hobby that I have enjoyed on and off for more than 50 years.
We’re just getting started with our Secondhand Overland! In it for the long haul and enjoying it with folks like you 👍
Keep those videos coming. They are fun to watch! I was cracking up at the parody, lol
All scales will be impacted by the roles trains play in our daily lives. Their efficiency should make them a growing part of transportation and commerce.
I think the hobby is safe but the issue for O Gauge is space. Have a basement no problem. I don't have one but I have O Gauge in a house I bought with that in mind. Younger guys like you are in the hobby. The train store I shop at is doing well. It is packed to the seams with O Gauge. A real MTH store too.
I dunno. I just preordered my first O-gauge train a month or so ago, one of the Lionel Dreyfuss Hudsons because of the stuff on youtube, so it might actually be growing. Granted I already had N-scale stuff but I'm new to O.
As far as stuff like the York train show, I live close enough but I'm usually working. This year is no exception.
You know I started following some of you because my wife gave me the Harry Potter Lionel set for Christmas and I wanted to know about O Gauge trains (I have been collecting and running HO scale since I was a kid) but what I have discovered is that there seems to be much more of a community among O Gauge train enthusiasts (way more than I can find on UA-cam for people involved with HO scale trains) and it’s very encouraging to see many younger people with UA-cam channels involved with O Gauge trains. The point is that the hobby appears to be growing and is healthy because of all the train related UA-camrs and all of their followers - so the hobby is far from dying …
I’ve heard a lot of people say the hobby is dying. I’m just getting into the hobby and it’s dying 😞
I like what you are talking about...I am a life long beginner, never have have a table or a perminent set up...we have a O-Gauge set we use at Christmas...every year, but the thing we have always enjoyed over the years is our local train show where we brouse and buy stuff cause we Train people. My Grand father was a fireman on an engine in upper ohio in the late 1800's and his father was a Brakeman on a Pensylvania line of the B&O before the Civil War...I have a very old Tenshendo BigBoy HO engine and tender...found at the last train show we went to...If I never drive it on track thats fine with me but...I would love to see it run at least once. Thanks for the excitement you always present! I am a 70 year old kid.
Chris, I am glad to hear that O gauge is doing fine. I recently had to make the switch to HO due to lack of space. I tried to make O gauge work but just just can't do it. I'll be selling my O gauge collection except for my fathers Lionel from late 40's / early 50's.
Enjoy the build of your H O railroad! H O is a great scale plus there is greater variety of models available. Thanks for watching!
I have always enjoyed your videos, especially this one. You are right on in regards to the hobby. You do a lot for the model railroad community. Thank you.
I had a train set growing up hoping to be the engineer! Then I took a plane ride to see family members first time and that plane ride changed everything for me! Trains will always have a spot in my heart though!
The hobby is not dying. When I am seeing companies like Rapido taking risks in unique models that only been done in brass, I know its doing okay. I blieve O, HO, and N will always be around.
I feel with channels like these and other awesome model railroaders, it’s reaching new audiences that perhaps would never have thought to start a layout. Yes, it may never be what it was in the. 1950's, I feel it’s still has a healthy and growing enthusiast base. Just my two cents. 🚂
Semi clickbait titles but overall I understand why one would make these type of videos.
Thanks for being upfront and honest about what the O gauge/ railroading world is going through . I recently started collecting and expanding my O gauge Polar express into more modern cars and locomotives because of watching you o gauge guys . Its people like you who are true advocates for model trains and thanks for doing this.
Thank you @russellvoth5161! Keep on collecting and enjoy this great Hobby :)
I don't buy what people say about train show attendance. I was just at one today (albeit a small one) but it was packed.
I miss k-line, it was the right price point for me and very detailed quality 😢
K-Line was awesome. Every time I run my Midnight Chief cars, I feel like I am honoring the K-Line memory. :)
Hey Chris! We definitely agree with you that this hobby is by no means dying. Just from our experience alone we've seen so many more people join the hobby who aren't just into model trains but are hardcore railfans that film and photograph the real thing. So it's been great to see people come into the hobby, who like ourselves, that spend most of their time chasing real trains and seeing them actually put trains together exactly like you would see in the real world but in model form. Another thing that has been great to see is the manufacturers really doing things that are new and innovative as far as locomotive types and or paint schemes that haven't been done before. A great example is our friends at Atlas Model Railroad Company. They have been doing some awesome stuff and we can't wait to see more from them! Also model railroading has brought a greater awareness to the importance of trains to our daily lives and how much they affect the things we use on daily basis. Plus there are those we know whose lives have been saved as a result of finding trains in one or both forms. So, the growth of model railroading has definitely played a huge part in promoting the importance of railroading and helping preserve it.
This video was great and we applaud you for tackling a topic that to some can be pretty controversial 👍🏻
All the best from the Drewski's Trains and Travels crew!
See you down the tracks!
Great video. One of the things that has encouraged me to get back in trains from another hobby of Flying RC Planes and jets is the fact that with Train modeling. I do not need an AMA membership or FAA membership. This in turn saves me money in the long run. I am sure I will pickup RC Flying again but probably not till the end of the year when things get more balanced in my life.
Good video ! I model n scale but love to see what others are doing in the hobby. O gauge is interesting to me for nostalgic reasons as well as the fact that lego buildings are close in scale.. Lol. What surprised me watching your videos is that O gauge doesn't have standardized control systems such as dcc. I couldn't say whether changing that would cause a resurgence in the hobby but it would be good to see. The brick and mortar stores that embraced online sales typically are the survivors. From a n scale modelers perspective, I think the hobby is doing just fine.
A wonderful video. I've been watching your videos for some time, but as of today, I now am a subscriber too. Even though I've been messing around with O gauge trains, specifically Lionel, since I was a kid in the 50's. I still consider myself a novice when it comes to this stuff. I got my first, and only as of now, Lionelchief set a couple of years ago and I love it. I've been able to acquire some items that I've always wanted too. Hopefully, when I get to our new house, I'll be able to really get going and build a nice layout.
One of thing I should mention. In the 60's, I gave HO a try. It lasted for a few years, but I found it to be very tedious to work with, especially with a visual impairment. So when my kid brother called me some years ago and said he wanted me to take possession of our family Lionel collection, I found I couldn't get to his house fast enough.
So far me two cents in this alive or dead thing, I'd say the hobby is evolving.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this subject.
Thanks for sharing @delwoodjef! I consider myself a novice as well. Still figuring all of it out :)
Great vidio, when i got back into the 0 gauge market about 8 years ago i spent 400. 00 on a lionchief pass. Set. and been adding to it since . Cheaper than golf, better than going out every night, and your family know where ya are. Great hobby.Thanks for the morning coffee...
Besides having trains as a kid I started vas a adult in 1970 and I have heard that O gauge is dying since 1970. The old guys said in 1970 that MPC would never last.Around 1986 or so when Richard bought Lionel that he was there to sell it off.when K-LINE and Weaver closed it was only another year or two that Lionel will close also.
So you see Chris this is nothing new, the doom and gloom nay sayers are always there.
Well 53 years later I am still playing with trains and I expect to for a long time with guys like you, JD, Chris and many others the hobby is the best and the trains get better every year.
Thank you Chris
Speaking of closed,I miss Williams big time.
Always enjoy your perspective David! Missed you at York last week. Not sure if you were there. I was looking for ya.
74 now grew up on S gauge in 2015 bought up everything I had from my grandfather from 1955 when he pasted. Cost me $4,500 long story Wife passed I moved gave it all to my very good old friend since 1968.
Yeah wish I didn’t and can’t replace because of family issues.
Heck if you can let it lay in your house DO SO keep the Faith.
Mike
The model railroading hobby is booming i say ray, out of the different hobby shops i go to, one person bought over 3 dozen HO scale rolling stock and over a dozen in a half locomotives and other stuff to go with it and that was over a 2500.00 dollar sale.
Yeah and how old was this person? I'm sure it wasn't some twentysomething fresh out of college.
You addressed this topic so well. Nice work! And I must say, as high school teacher, this was a great example of a thesis paper. 😂
I, as well as so many other people, support your position on this. Though just as so many people support you, so many will continue to be negative. We just need to move past the negativity, and show the joys in the hobby. This is something your channel has done so well. Thank you.
This comment made me so happy, lol. I was trying to make sure I put some kind of structure on this topic as it can be a hot button. :) Thanks for watching!
I also think the hobby is growing. I see and meet so many excited people at the York shows. Young and old, men and women..see you at york RBP! ( dont forget to mow your grass tomorrow).
When I began in model railroading as a Long Island guy, we had three great model railroad stores. In NYC there were I believe six or seven such stores. I was a member of the Long Island O gage Society. Eventually we got dumped from our apartment house cellar.
Today, one of the stores on Long Island exists today. There are no other MR places in NYC. It’s mostly dead in the northeast.