Understanding the Social, Strategic, and Physical Games of Survivor & Big Brother
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2024
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SIDE NOTES:
I think there's also such a thing as a "physical & social strategy" that's not represented in the venn diagram, where all 3 circles overlap in the middle. Think of Sophie convincing Albert to help her in the F5 immunity challenge in South Pacific. It took both a social and physical strategic move to pull off (even though Jeff barred it from happening).
It may also be worth considering how social and physical games can mesh together too--without any strategy involved. Players helping each other in challenges and competitions without any strategic motive. I didn't cover that overlap either, but I think it could exist.
This video mostly intends to explain why the strategic pillar encompasses both the physical and social games, instead of being unique and devoid of the other two. You can be socially strong, physically strong, and then use those two aspects strategically. A purely strategic game without any social or physical aspects would need to be something akin to... being a robot? Maybe searching for an idol? Although that's somewhat physical, especially if it involves a 50ft. climb with a bamboo ladder.
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I've always thought of the three parts of the game like this:
Physical game protects you from the battle
Social game helps you win the battles you should win
Strategic game helps you win the battles you shouldn't win
In essence, Social game works with numbers, Strategic game works against the numbers, and Physical game avoids the numbers
I agree with you that physical protects you from the battle but i disagree about the social and strategic. I would argue that social is almost like gaining troops for the battle whereas strategic is deploying troops for the battle. Strategic doesn't always have to work against the numbers.
Hey, it’s Shmeckle!
Reverse social and strategic. Think about many of the Survivor winners with better social games winning battles they shouldn’t have won. Strategic games are the reason why most of the super dominant winners won, because they won the battle they deserved to win.
Eeshaan Chaudhuri social game can also help avoid the battles.
strategic game is about making moves, one side of the coin is you’re benefiting your game n the other side is you’re not benefiting at least one person’s game n downing atleast someone’s chances regardless if you working with the numbers or not. you’re voting against SOMEONE because it’s strategy. there’s nothing wrong with that if it’s necessary. social game is putting out a persona that you want to show where you’re gaining something from real people n use that to direct the game in a way you want to direct it towards. which helps you have control, you can either use that control/relationships for a game you want to play which isn’t always loyal. (like boston rob’s survivor as game) not all people use social game for good, not all people use a strategic game for bad.
Tony would be great on BB.
He never leaves his house irl. XD
He said he would never do BB unfortunately
The social aspect of survivor is the most underrated part of the game bar none. Literally the most controversial wins are from people who had a social game (like Michele, Natalie W, Sarah, Sophie, Tommy,Sandra, Amber, etc.) and they’re usually next to ppl who were more strong/ strategic but just weren’t respected socially.
As a viewer the social game is the hardest to understand too cause you literally don't know the person irl and is probably why social winners are usually more controversial
I don’t think that’s true. Like there’s few ppl on that list I respect, like Michele, the utmost example of a social player, Sophie, Sandra of course, and Sarah Lacina. The thing is the others didn’t convince me at all that they deserved it. Tommy’s paranoia that Lauren would win was bullshit when the literal biggest threat is there sitting right next to him. So there are aspects other than the fact that they played a social game that really make me doubt them.
The problem is that you can’t fully see the social aspect of a player because the social game is going on 100% of the time and you only see so much on tv
Easton McKay well, that’s actually agreeable.
Don’t forget Wendell
The one thing I’d say is that there is an overlap between physical and social. If you are a provider, while not as important compared to earlier seasons, you are bound to be more well-liked, which helps your social game.
agreed, read description
I feel like it should be another smaller circle named "Survival aspects" overlapping with physical and social because you can be tough and not a provider but if you are a provider you are usually tough and social.
You can also make it overlap with "strategy" in the case of Tony Spy Shack lol
Peridium I feel like u should get involved with Russell hanzes top 100 list
does that mean he is...??
Van just watched it and peridium did make an appearance
Nice video. Could you identify the best social, physical & strategic / tactical players from each season?
Russell doesn’t like Peridiam unfortunately
Hoe peridiam is in it
You should honestly apply for survivor.
Says every Peridiam fan ever
I would be surprised if he hasn't
He did say at 8:01 “before I ever played” past tense so I thought maybe he has and is hiding his identity have watched lots of videos never saw a face cam so maybe that’s a thing he has done
trenton crow he meant that he would like to know those things before I every played. Which means he hasn’t played
trenton crow 10:28
If you can't convince the jury to vote for you in the end you did something wrong
Well except Russell should win over Natalie
I LOVE Parvati, but you need to shout it louder for the "Parvati deserved it more than Sandra" people in the back!
i see that but i rlly feel he was unlucky with a bitter jury. especially erik cardona who actively went against him for seemingly no reason as they barely interacted. i think erik was bitter that russell played the game erik wanted to play
Awesome Boss What was parv supposed to do? Sit back and kiss there ass and get voted out. She had a target all game. It’s not her fault she came in perceived as a threat.
@@liamandell3498 One problem with your argument: Russell was the main reason Foa Foa floundered in the premerge and went into the merge down in numbers in the first place. He had all their smartest and strongest members voted off. He actively sabotaged camp life to make everyone feel miserable so he could control them. He in no way helped create a winnable evironment for his tribe to flourish.
Credit to Natalie where it's due, she read the room very quickly of what was going on in the game, and knew her best course of action was to play dumb, let Russell continue his scemes, and let him keep thinking it was a good idea to take her to the end, and while he continues to impelent the worst social game in survivor history, she's creating a positive report with every player she comes across, making actual connections with them, ensuring there is no ill will between her or any of the people who will be deciding her fate at the end of the game.
And to this day, ten years later, Natalie White STILL holds the American Survivor Record for Surviving the most tribal councils in a single season without the protection of an immunity necklace or an idol.
She is quite possibly the greatest social player in the history of the game.
12:41
Yes Peridiam, the summer is still hot.
The seasons are still coming.
And Big Brother will arrive to make this chaotic year all the more chaotic.
(In a good way that is)
BB ALL STARS 2 WHOOOOOOOO
@@davidbasa9985 this Aged well
Before watching this, the best way for a player to win the game is to know who you are as a person, be consistent with that personality, and most importantly be respectful to your competition, but be up front with the fact that you’re here to beat them.
I disagree. You may know who you are, but you'd have a better chance at winning if you adjust and change aspects of your personality so that you are perceived in a positive manner
@@BigMattXXL true but you need to stay true to yourself. Otherwise people will smell fakeness from a mile away. And if you know who u are, you will be able to adjust your personality because you know yourself so well.
Russell Hantz:
Strategy: 11/10
Physical: 6/10
Social: 💩
i finished watching heroes vs villains recently and he is terrible socially. there's this one scene where coach is doing tai chi or some weird shit with the tribe, and russell goes off to look for an idol. he is literally the only one not participating. he actually was isolating himself.
Or when he rob asked him “who are we voting out” and he said “one of these” AND POINTED TO SANDRA AND COURTNEY I WILL FOREVER REMEMBER “ONE OF THESE”
I think he’s higher on physical than 6 especially because the immunities he won were key at perfect times in the game for him to do his bidding
Roger Towny Jr. Sandra:
Strategy: 2/10
Social: 8/10
Physical: 💩
@@tomj4219
Sandra's strategy is at least a 6.
Her getting Coach out when Courtney was originally going to go in HvV when set the stage for the rest of the game.
Also, how is her physical game shit?
She caught a shark.
She has adept survival skills.
Millitary training
And in WAW, her tribe won every single challenge she competed in.
Physically = as you said
Social = ability to connect & awareness of other connections of around you
Strategy = planning, predicting, getting ahead.
The social game is also about accurately reading others' feelings. A lot of otherwise good social players miss subtle signals that tip off more emotionally intelligent players to danger or opportunity. For example, they can't tell when people are lying, or they can't tell which players have the strongest personal connections (as opposed to just an alliance of necessity or convenience), etc. Great video! Thanks!
The dirty little secret is that although 100% real. CBS steers where they want the game to go indirectly through questions asked to the contests in the diary room or private talks on the island in hope to influence the opinion of the contestants. TO FIT THEIR NERATIVE.
You forgot the fourth element- playing the producers. If you watch enough seasons you can see how the producers help certain people stay for better ratings. Russell endlessly finding idols when he needs them for example. If you understand this dynamic you can ham up your character to get that help when on solo interview camera, but don't behave that way in front of players in the game so you fly under the radar.
I hate that so much. I get why they do it, but it really destroys the integrity of the game
The social game is literally just your own emotional intelligence - being aware of yourself, and others. You use that to figure out what people want to do, and what they're motivated by, as well as what they'll react negatively to. Once you know what that is, you can formulate your plan (the so-called strategic side) around people's wants and motivations in order to use their vote or earn their jury vote. The social and the strategic are inherently linked in that way.
And that's why Russell Hantz is a clown.
Yeah but russel does have awareness to some extent, he’s crazy good at convincing and has really good strategy when it comes to getting to the end. His strategy involves game awareness and keeping his allies close. His issue is how he treats people (mainly his rivals) he can be a bitch I feel like if he changed his attitude he would be the best I still do think he’s one of the best ever
If the social and strategic way is linked... Then you are the clown because he was also very physical in challenges in case you did not notice? That would technically qualify him as having everything because the physical game is considered top 2. Only after the social game.
Russell is a good game player. He just needs to work on his social game and he can possibly win a Survivor season.
@@UnbreakableBloke I don’t think he’ll ever win a season again. He’s waaaaay too big of a target right now, even if he fixes his social game
Peridium, thank you
You’ve done such great work
Peridiam you are amazing! Your vids just get better and better, I’m happy that I’ve been following you since the very beginning.
I know that this doesnt have to do with this video but after winners at war, I think that the mount rushmore of Survivor is Boston Rob, Sandra, Tony and Parviti. The godfather, the queen, the king and the goddess.
McCoy Butler I agree. Initially when I read this, I was annoyed that u counted Kim out. But we know that tony is stronger after waw
Eliana S I think that Kim has one of the best games in history in One world but she hasn’t had multiple great games unlike the four that I mentioned
McCoy Butler yes
McCoy Butler what about Richard Hatch? He’s where it all started
If tony is in there, Russell should be there as well
Outplay = physical
Outwit = strategical
Outlast = social
It’s a standard argument
I don’t totally agree with the details
But overall good research
i'd switch outplay with outlast
Iain MacFarlane why did you said ?
@@Nizalnation outlast is a physical component of lasting on an island for 39 days out play is both social and strategical
I love this video! Amazing content!
Better subscribe lol
This is an awesome topic Peridiam cause u could debate n discuss about it for hours
I just found this video and love the analysis. Gotta say...you were pretty spot on with your comments!
Glad you think so! I was just on the RHAP B&B and referenced you, by the way. I still think you get underrated for your gameplay.
Thank you, Peridiam, for my future final tribal argument of the strategic game being nonexistent. The overlap is so obvious!
Am I smelling a possible player ranking soon? 👀
thisisnotabot 783936379 I smell chicken, can you go to McDonald’s and get me chicken nuggets
And I also want a small fry and a large sweet tea (light ice)
I'm with ya. Strategy is just applying your social/physical talents to the game.
When you talked strategy game and showed Parvati from HvV **chef’s kiss
Often, the general concensus is that the only way to be considered a good player is to make a ton of big moves. Because of this, people think players like Sandra, Tommy, Jordan (BB11) and Michele didn't deserve their wins. Personally, I feel every Survivor and Big Brother winner deserves that honor no matter how they played. Strategy and big moves can help, but it all comes down to the jury votes no matter what, and you're not gonna be respected if your game is ONLY big moves.
something that may be considered to encompass the physical and social pillars is nick throwing the immunity challenge in winners at war to give it to tony - tony’s social game was so good he was able to get people like nick to trust that he would give them a fire token if they gave him immunity.
Here's my take of how strategy fits into the framework of games like Survivor and Big Brother: any sufficiently talented player can have moments of physical, social, or tactical brilliance, but without being informed by sound strategy, there's no guarantee that those moments of brilliance actually help you win the game. Strategy is what informs every aspect of every decision you make in the game.
I do think Tactics is it’s own pillar. It’s a required skill to have the ability to calculate and plan advanced moves while multiple things are happening at once and alliances are shifting.
For me strategy really comes down to game awareness. Are you aware of how well or not well your physical and social sides are working. And then taking that information so you can predict what might be coming next.
PERIDIAM WE NEED YOUR BB22 ALL STAR CAST PREDICTIONS
Should definitely play survivor. A legend like you would be perfect for the game
Dan's physical or even social game (S14) were never the strongest ever - but his STRATEGY was untouched. He had a plan for every action he took and it worked most of the time. He couldn't always control what happened to him or even always get anyone to like him or even win a challenge at will - but he could always always always think up a plan that would bend circumstances to his advantage. That's strategic game.
Someone like Derrick I would say had impeccable social game. Obviously he had strategy too, but the way he managed to never be on the block because of his persona and likability was insane. He always made sure his bases were covered and when it got to the end, you knew everyone was going to vote for him.
Physical game is hard to get at but I think maybe of the Brigade? They won a ton of comps and were able to take care of their own pretty much all the time. I could be off, it's hard to think of a good example of a great physical game really guaranteeing a victory for a player/group of players.
Will you continue analyzing the different Survivor player archetypes soon?
Rhandell Rubio Not too soon, but definitely at some point.
THANK YOU. I've always thought tactics and strategy were being unfairly clumped up together.
In survivor you need good tactics but also good strategy.
Russell Hantz was a great tactical mastermind but terrible strategist for example.
Last time i was this early Chris was still on EOE
He was on the edge of Extinction for pretty much the whole game tho
The epitome of good social and physical but zero agency being successful is Kaycee Clark
Who?
Mr. pockets from big brother
And Josh
@@MsVitaD Josh didn't even play his own game. He played Paul's game and won by an extremely bitter jury even though Paul deserved to lose again as well.
I love your videos I hope you get on survivor
Just got the notif and can already tell this is gonna be amazing, you make the greatest content
My personal thoughts are
The physical part of the game is big, you win challenge for your group making them like you. You win Individual immunity keeping you from being voted out. You can possibly provide food making everyone in your tribe stronger
The social part of the game is being able to make friends someytimes even with assholes or crazy people like Russle or Debbie. Being able to make everyone like you and help keep a positive vibe in camp. Getting to know people on a deep level. This can help you from not getting voted out, and having people be more willing to vote with you
The Stractigic side is being able to implement those when necessary. Knowing when to win or lose or barely win so you don't look like a threat. Knowing when to flip or when to open up. Knowing when to throw someone under the buss. It's all timming and can't be done without being social in some way or physical in some way
Drew with the higher pitched voice is iconic :D
After seeing your explanation for social game I still don’t think KC had a good social game and would love to hear your opinion on her social game
Please do more big brother analysis and videos. 🙏
Great to see you in the top 100 livestreem earlier
Kent Barger Thanks! There’s a good chance I’ll be back.
@@Peridiam can't wait for the next one
Would you say finding idols/advantages falls under the physical game? It's basically just a mini-challenge at your camp and looking for it by yourself is quite anti-social behaviour.
Strategy is the overall term.
I'd say the pillars would be social, physical, and tactical like peridiam mentioned.
Social - how well a player can position themselves using relationships made and/or not made. Using relationships to further your game would be considered a tactical hybrid of a social game. Social game, for me, is the pure ability to create these said relationships. I also agree a social game could involve manipulation, but it depends on the situation.
Physical - how well a player performs in challenges, this could be puzzles or straight athletic challenges.
Tactical - How well you use both the physical and social game to ultimately achieve your goal. Also, how well one uses tactics to further their position in said game. Examples being idol plays, blindsides, splitting a vote, etc. A tactical/social player might do things like convincing players to throw challenges. Manipulating people to vote your way. A physical/tactical player would be using your physical skill to make tactical plays. Winning a veto and then saving your ally, winning veto and then blind siding a player, etc.
Hope these definitions help clarify how I see the game.
That’s why duos are so good especially when one person is good at a social game while the other person is good at the physical game
You should do predictions on the potential Big Brother All Stars 2 this summer
I’m not sure how like playing an idol to blindside someone would be social or physical?
You should make a top five premieres or finales video
Weird thing about social+strategical is I feel like it depends on who the player is. Most of Russell's moves I would only mark as strategy but Wendell's moves on 36 for example could be listed more as social. It's definitely harder to label moves as social tho. Imo usually a good social game is causing other players to sway their decision making in your favor. A good social game is hard to "quantity" because I can't say "My social game made you decide this", Idk what they were thinking and they might not even know what cause them to make that decision. Even my example of Wendell you could argue was a lot of strategy and that's exactly why I see the reasoning for 2 pillars. In the end tho a lot of moves are just hard to simply pinned down as a purely social move and that's y I'd keep the strategic pillar.
I think strategy is much easier to "quantify" if that makes sense. A social game really speaks for itself based on how much people like the player. This difference is why imo I'd keep them separate. I also like fire tokens because like jury votes they're a perfect way to "quantify" or measure how good someone's social game is. Holy crap that was a lot of writing lol
Totally agree. You need to use social and physical skills in a strategic way to win.
The dirty little secret is that although 100% real. CBS steers where they want the game to go indirectly through questions asked to the contests in the diary room or private talks on the island in hope to influence the opinion of the contestants. TO FIT THEIR NERATIVE.
@@raiitaly yep
If you act like a leader, give people the choice to follow you or not, always show your best, make them think you're here to either go big or go home.
Don't be a dictator putting people infront of you. Don't be a boss putting people behind you. Be a leader who puts people beside you.
When I saw Gina Marie I DIEDDD. 😭😭 but one all the all time best players is Vanessa Russo. An (almost) perfect game.
Big Brother & Survivor is like WWE vs. UFC 🤣
“I’m gonna go with the house”
For anyone who is looking for big brother content: there’s an old UA-cam series called “Big Sister” which was inspired by Big Brother on a channel “Reality Revamp” there’s MULTIPLE seasons
How do you get the clips from these shows? Especially the earlier seasons?
Make a video about when and why big brother decided to become "indoor survivor"
Love your videos huge fan, such great content keep it up!
The last time I was this early, Adam was still trying to play Jeff's podium
Thank you for all this amazing survivor content to keep us sane during quarantine!
Here I was worrying you wouldn’t post because of the multi hour mashup
Can you do a top 100 Greatest Survivors of alltime
I always viewed "social game" as a player doing everything they can to piss off as few people as possible. Like BB19, Paul had an excellent strategic game, but he pissed off the entire jury (except Puppet Master Raven, and the Cereal Monster).
Just one comment from Clausewitz (the author of war is politics by other means): Tactics is about winning a battle whereas strategic is about winning the war. So IMHO tactics would be how to hack a challenge or to talk in a tribal whereas strategy is to ally with a physical threat so you deflect attention from you. But I am not sure where to draw the line in cases such as who to go with you if you win the loved ones challenge
No wonder why we saw Hayden & Caleb appear on Survivor. Big Brother and Survivor are both pretty popular videos and I hope to see players from Survivor like maybe Sandra, Sophie, Kelley Wentworth, Tyson, Tommy, Rob Cesternino, or even Sugar could mesh well with the climate and vibe of the Big Brother house. If they had more BB players onto Survivor, Danielle, Janelle, and even someone like Evel Dick would be perfect for Survivor.
So much South Pacific in one video 😭😭
Then there is a Social circle and a Physic circle, and they are both covered for a third circle, the stratigic one.
The "social game" is such a complex concept. What about people who build strong bonds but are bad at managing the jury?
I believe we call those people an "Amanda Kimmel"
Rip to Paul.
Big brothers social game> survivor social game While big brother physical challenge
BB social game=survivor social game too. The comps I agree with.
Anyone know channels just like this one with more big brother content??
The meranian review is good, even though I don't agree with him a lot.
Rob Has a podcast/Reality Tv Rhap has a few podcasts covering best seasons, best players tht never won, best winners ranking podcasts for BB. On Rob has a website there is a section for big brother off season podcasts which talk about topics like should u win the first hoh and the problem of a bitter jury!
Ethanimale
If one day peridiam play big brother he will at least finish in the final 4 period
i like these vids :-)
Shrew
Peridiam what if Jeff Varner tried to play an idol after outing zeke
Jeff would play an idol nullifier on him lol
Will Hoover honestly
He goes on to win the season.
What if Cirie played an idol at the f6 of GC and everyone was immune? Who goes home? Would tribal just be over?
You should interact with Russell hantz list
He did he talked about Monica
Would Dan be good on survivor?
I wanna see that.
Same.
I'd just be afraid his reputation would get him booted early.
Tony is in a lot of your thumbnails.
For reasons
Thank for posting the video.
“Chess not checkers...”
I would split it out by
Physical - Ability at physical tasks
Social - Ability to make friends
Mental - Ability at puzzles and strategy
Peridiam said puzzles are social that are technically physical??? They are totally Mental!!!
There's definitely overlap between social and strategic, and physical and strategic, but depending on how you do camp life, there is overlap between social and physical. That being said, I think there is enough distinction between strategy and each of those other parts, that I think they should still be separate. For example, Russell Hantz's strategic/tactical game was great in HvV, but his social game was appalling, costing him the game. Another example, Fabio was good at challenges/the physical, but I don't think he would have recognized a strategy if it slapped him across the face.
Season with the worst social games are south Pacific and redemption island tbh....
Yeah so physically strategic and socially strategic , some people don’t have both
To get to the end
1.strategical
2.physical
3.social
To win at the end
1.social
2.strategic
3.physical
Entertainment wise
1.strategical
2.physical
3.social
Dude talk about the challenge and how to win it
Russel hantz is an example of a strategical and physical players but had 0 social skills
So are u convinced we’re getting big brother all stars 2?
Not this year. Covid
Not with real all stars just ppl who said yes 💀😭
SPOILERA FOR SURVIVOR NEW ZELAND!
For me very good example of those three pilars was shown in finale of Survivor New Zeland first season. Barb was strategic player, Tom physical and Avi social. I feel that Avi won just because he was liked more then other two. Barb orchestrated many cool moves, but she was to cold, even her ride or die didn't vote for her. Tom won 5 immunities, but wasn't liked nor very strategic.
Last time I was this early everyone thought 2020 would be one of the best years ever
Gina Marie... what an iconic player. Probably a better goat then even Victoria.
Yeah, after interviewing bb 16s jury they found out that Victoria would’ve won against Cody... Gina Marie was just offensive and very loud
Victoria was a MOOD
Yes! I think I'm the first now? Keep making great videos! :)
The thumbnail got me SO EXCITED
I disagree with your assessment of how jurors vote for their most likeable always, especially if they don't particularly like anyone in particular. They often go with gamesmanship, particularly when they don't particularly like anyone.
strategic and social game are definitely different, id almost say theyre opposites. strategic is logical, while social game is emotional. this is why someone like russell hantz who has a great strategic mind can usually make top 3 but will likely never win. he has no social game.
Paul Abraham
I wonder how well you’d do on either show, it would be interesting
Hope you apply on Survivor and win!
I know these shows aren’t chess, and they aren’t checkers, but are they Chestnut Checkers?
Vanessa was the best strategist
What