Thank you for doing the research (knowledgeably) , and taking the time to make this informative video. Your explanation of the pertinent issues with the Grenadier should make perfect sense to anyone who actually pays attention, and is really helpful to me. Knowing that your package should take care of all of the most onerous issues currently plaguing the vehicle, gives me confidence to go ahead and buy one next year. I had been waiting particularly for someone to offer portal-axles, but the fact that you are also addressing the other issues is a huge bonus.
Insane, and I love it. Appreciate the granular but simple explanation of what the expectations and deliverables are. Following. I hope I can be in a position to have a set at some point.
I'm an Ineos owner, and I don't need portals for what I do,, but I love hearing an expert explain the technical nuances. My experience so far is that you are dead right about the conflict of caster and pinion angle, as well as the double cardan joint in the steering. Even with no portals, I'd love to see someone take a run at the new axle housing to solve the front end geometry just for a 1.5-2" lift that would simultaneously solve steering stability and turning radius. I'm hoping the aftermarket can delivery that part of the equation. PS,, I've been running max caster and 33s since day 1, and it definitely helps, but I haven't lifted because of the issues with pinion angle.
Not interested in portals, but definitely interested in a replacement front axle housing that fixes the pinion angle, lack of caster and turning radius.
Been scouring the internet for any news on this, appreciate the details! I'm looking at these, if I buy one I'll be interested : ) One question, curious how LeTech builds their portals for Grenadier-did they also replace the axles?
It’s a super cool approach to a great new platform so I’ll try to stay positive: INEOS wants to sell 30,000 per year. If you can capture a .05% sell through/capture rate it would yield 15 customers annually. The biggest issue you’ll have is creating awareness. Secondly: INEOS is likely going to offer portals as well for less and from the factory. So you’ll have to communicate the value for yours (of which there is). If I were to switch platforms to this, I’d want a total package offered with recommended shocks, installation and warranty. I’d also want a wheel and tire option (or specs to choose my own). I’d also have a question re: lockers (are they included)? You could try to set up a dealer network with INEOS dealers or become very active on whatever enthusiast platform they have or will create. But odds are that if you do a good enough job, Jim Ratcliffe (CEO - INEOS) would probably offer to buy you out/partnership. Good luck and I hope to see it!
@@mikefoster7085 I haven't heard it be described as a true factory option; Lynn Calder said not series production but batch production. I could see it being more like vehicles roll off the production line and are shipped to LeTech for the work
Looking at prices Ineos are charging for the Arcane Works products, I'd be very happy if portals came in at the prices you are suggesting. Unfortunately, I'm thinking more double that figure. Ineos are squeezing the pips and pricing for the exclusive end of the market.
Given someone priced a replacement axle via a dealer and got a $20k cost, there's got to be a latent market to sell low mileage Carraro axles if they're swapped out for the Weld74 kit?
I'm on my 2nd front driveshaft. Fortunate to have Ineos warranty the first one, though I don't think many others will be that lucky. I'm ready to ditch the Eibach lift/level and just run the factory ride height until you guys drop this...which I REALLY hope you do. Great video, gives me some hope for making the IG my main offroader.
@@powers4x4 it looks like we have enough people stepping up to make this happen. One of our engineers shot a bunch of content today with an angle finder and went through all the angles. We will throw together a video with more detail of what we are dealing with here soon. I will be calling guys in the next week or so to discuss timelines and money. So if you are serious… email us info@74weld.com
Give LR Denver a call. Steve has looked into it but not yet committed. It seems like an obvious solution but I haven't looked into the technical details of actually making it happen. Getting more input/feedback from the customer base can only help push it toward market.
Also, Quinn isn't much of a Rover fan as you can tell from his comments in this video. I've heard him in other interviews basically saying 'hell no' to Rovers although I don't think he actually knows much about them - for example here he mentioned the Range Rover which clearly would not be the model to approach here where the Defender would be. The only plus I can think of is if you can use one part number across multiple Rover models. I'm not familiar enough with the current Rover platforms to know if that's possible or not.
Appreciate the content. Some feedback if you don't mind. In future I suggest including footage of the components which are being discussed instead of using a single video angle for the entire video. Although I understood all that was said, I'm not familiar with the Grenadier components so would be great to have a visual and other viewers may not understand what you're talking about. Cheers
If we’re talking serious, I’m more than serious for portals for my 1500 ZR2 😅 I just put 37” AT4W’s on it, I did a lot of cutting and took out the crash bar
Not an ineos owner, but interested in possibly buying one. The steering/front geometry has been flagged by several people online, especially with 1-3” lift. Perhaps a corrected front housing with improved knuckles would be a more popular option? Especially if you could keep it around 10k?
Thanks, i have better understanding of caster. I come from the bike world and caster is called rake. The tighter the rack, the more nervous the handing but quicker response. Longer rake, more relax ride but slower reaction to turning
I have often wondered what the tech specs are for the Carraro axles, such as axle diameter, ring diameter...and strength wise, is there a Dana axle that it equivalent to. Publications have mentioned that they are robust, but that is about it.
@@BoanergesJim we have not dove into them and since to my knowledge there aren’t much in the way of aftermarket support or lockers/gears we probably won’t mess with them. The Spicer stuff just has so much aftermarket support it makes more sense to start with them
Remember Magna Steyr helped develop the drivetrain, for Ineos. The same folks who build the G-Wagons. Probably why these issues exist. But there is also a price point they were probably trying to hit. Some of Agile’s products can help with steering. Not all of course. You guys and John should definitely speak to Ineos .. no wonder they have a 60 month warranty.
@@jasonb4988 what they needed to do was give a proper relative angle between caster and pinion angle. There is no excuse or reason for their choice…it was likely an oversight. The only band aid you can put on the turning radius is a shorter pitman arm which is likely not a good idea for the box. Housings can fix all this, just a bummer we have to go this way
+1......I am very interested in the full kit at that price! if you do go ahead with it, can you please make a custom 74Weld Method 207 wheel for the kit as well.
Appreciate the breakdown. Clearly some thought has gone into this. Based on your track record and what you have been able to accomplish I suspect you’ll succeed with this as well. Interested for sure and willing to put down a deposit. Any process in place for that?
Dang it’s a shame that a brand new vehicle has to be changed so much to work properly…but I know you guys will fix it all and make it completely dialed…
Would you be able to slap those axle housings/Portals onto an 80 series land cruiser? I don't have 35k for you but might extend your market if they were compatible.
@@sebastianfernandez2865 they showed some spy photos. No word on when or how much they are charging, but their stuff is usually cast iron while ours is billet aluminum. I’m sure their product will be fine. Ours will just be better. Still the only race tested portal ever produced.
I’m surprised Marin sent you a Grenadier? I looked at their Grenadier‘s at the dealer they’re asking top dollar for these things and then trying to modify one would be unconsolidated nightmare, by the time you spend all this money you could buy a jeep or Bronco for half the price and modify it totally affordable. I thoroughly looked at the Grenadier even crawled underneath and could see visually that the pinion angles just won’t work if you lift it. hopefully the next generation they produce they will think of modifications ground clearance etc. tires are too small out of the box and vehicle is a little too low, it’s really a neat vehicle and I hope Grenadier does well, the dealer in Marin county will probably do well there because there is so much wealth in that town and there’s people that live there that probably would spend the money 50,000 plus extra dollars to modify one of these, But for the average hard-working person who loves four wheeling the Grenadier is just too expensive especially if you want to modify it, The Marin dealership does have a lot of Grenadier‘s to choose from so if you’re looking for one they have a good inventory. “Thanks” for the review, and there will be people that can Afford to build one of these and I think it’s great that your company is developing these products👍👍👍👍
Coming from the jeep, rock crawling world and 1 tons, it’s going to depend. Most guys are going to overland this thing which means lots of gear inside and on the roof with possible towing. I think the hybrid 44/60 will work for those crossing over from jeep that plan to rock crawl more than carrying a ton of gear for Overlanding. If you want to capture the majority group, you might need to offer a full one ton option to allow for the payload and towing capacity. The majority of this demographic will not wheel this thing hard, and likely most that will pony up 35k for a full kit will do so for looks and bragging rights. If I did it I’d want full one tons to justify the cost, but even then, I’d likely just do tons without portals and just chop the fenders. If money was no issue then hell yeah send it! Thank you for discussing caster and pinion angle, exactly why I had my double DC front shaft built!
@ yeah I saw that and that’s awesome! But the Currie rock jock tubing and center diff are not, although much beefier than a factory D44. I’ve seen tubes bend on the rubicon under heavy weight and 37’s. I’m not worried about the outers, it’s the tube and carrier that concerns me since this car is significantly heavier to begin with than a wrangler.
@ they run a much heavier wall tubing over stock. The main constraint on strength is tubing diameter. We did a video about axle housings where we explain these concepts and tell you why a 4” .250 wall tube is going to be a whole lot stronger than a 3” .500 wall tube. The current Currie stuff is pretty damn good for most and is going to be a substantial upgrade over any stock housing in a Jeep or Grenadier
@ oh don’t I know it! I had a Currie VXR 60 and a shaved 14 bolt in my rig. Several members of my club had rock jock 44’s and 44/60 hybrids. Though the hybrid was an affordable and accessible option for the “JKU sport crowd”, they always ended up going up to 60’s or even 70’s. I’d prefer to pay for the heftier 60 price the first time rather than doing it twice, only if it’s feasible with the limitations in space and suspension under this thing.
Can you please explain why the current OEM pinion angle is a problem for the front axle portals when you are bolting the portal on and by design of the portal, you can set the steering geometery caster and camber to whatever you desire.? - seems you spent a lot of time talking of the shortfalls of the OEM design when this is utterly irrelevent to a custom protal design that will provide the desired geometery Having owned and operated a vehicle with portals for an extended period, I can say, that there is currently no better solution to under vehicle clearance on the market than portals. Portals can still deliver good on road steering characterists if setup properly. Portals can compromise recovery when boged deeply, particularly if the wheel center has gone below the surface crust into the mud - in this case, ono is in a better position for recovery without portals your self perception of your onroad vahcle driveline tech appears to somewhat exceed reality - eg the Land Rover Discovery Series 2 has a double cardon joint on the front of the front driveshaft). - It appears that the standard front drive shaft of the Grenadier has CV joints (with balls etc) as opposed to double carden joints. - It is a really really bad look for the competency of your business when you get these two mixed up (or even worse dont under stand the difference between these two items) all this incompetency coming from a well articulated presentation from a mob who does vehicle upgrades and mods - my goodness, what could we expect by way of competent engineering when the basics are misundertood Note that your actual presentation is well delivered and presented despite not knowing what you are talking about all the time. - so credit for this aspect - your overall thinking on the pros and cons and conceptual design seems good thinking - I wish you well with this project - I recon that you would surely get more than 10 kits wanted world wide for the axle package - you have integrity in your scope for pricing
@@johnallen3555 while I appreciate comments, you draw conclusions then throw some pretty heavy shade our way based on incorrect info…I’ll try not to take it personal. But let’s break this down 1. Caster is set by the INNER knuckle. Nothing you ever do on the outer knuckle (the portal) will ever be able to change this. So when you say it’s “utterly irrelevant to a custom portal that will provide the desired geometry” this is also wrong. All turning pivots around the inner knuckle and its fixed points…if you don’t change those fixed points of the inner pivot you can’t influence caster OR camber. 2. The front driveline on the grenadier is a CV. It runs a typical rubber and metal boot. While I don’t have specs on the physical cv boot used by Ineos, these boots typically have operating angles that max out at 6-12 degrees depending on rpm rating. The higher the rpm rating the less angle the boot will allow. The metal /rubber boot is necessary to be able to handle the high RPM seen by drivelines. A typical rubber boot used on the front of an IFS vehicle sees much lower rpm due to the fact it is located after the ring and pinion reduction. I referenced a double cardon joint of a rear jeep driveline because lots of people are familiar with them. I did that in reference to the front axle shafts because they function and look similar…if you thought I was referencing the same thing I wasn’t. I was just trying to explain what a double cardon looked like and didn’t have a photo or physical one handy… You lost me with the “all this incompetency” comments. You might have misunderstood what I was saying, I might not have been clear enough, but jumping from that to calling us incompetent engineers? My guess is you reserve this type of attack for internet conversations only…and if you are going to say those types of things and you lead off with a comment like “just change caster in the front outer knuckle” we have a problem. I’m all for discussions and questions, but when your question is about our competency due to you asserting we do something that can’t be done, I’m left over here scratching my head 🤦♂️
@@74weld Thanks for your reply 1. Caster - I am sorry, but I presumed that your portal would include a new inner and outer matching knuckle design (my bad for makeing assumptions) The reason that I made this assumption that the existing knuckle would not be suitable for the additional loads that portals place on the knuckle. To do otherwise derates the from the OEM capacity for dynamic loads due to the additional leverage that the portals have on the knuckle. I would be pretty concerned of the thought of any derating in this area due to the loadings from the portal. The Volvo C300 series axles have bolt on portals that include the inner and outer knuckles. To me this is a better way to go than using a knuckle not designed for the loads that a portal can impose. It also lends itself to a more generic axle design that is readily adapted in lenght for a particular application. 2 CV vs Double carden It is obvious from your comment that you do recognise the difference between double carden and CV with balls - I was harsh with my use of words when it appeared in your video that you did not recognise and name the cv, but called it a double carden. - face to face I would have simarly verbally challanged you on this, giving you an opportunity to either confirm or dispell my concerns. So no, not a FB warrior hiding behind keyboard. It does look like your company does some nice work and your explanation as to why you would choose to do entirely new axles is very good All the best and thanks for both the video and the reply.
@ no modern axle that I know of has a bolt on inner knuckles. The grenadier inner C is welded straight to the housing. We replace the entire outer knuckle with a new one. As for the additional leverage, based on the bearings that the grenadier runs it wouldn’t be a problem at all, but since the caster is so bad from the get go we would replace the housing with a ball joint 60 knuckle. The Volvo C303 was last produced in 1984…it’s been a long time since anyone made a removable inner and I don’t really see any benefit to going back to those.
@@74weld I know it is a little more work, but, - remove axle & disassemble - cut the axle housing and weld on a flange to allow for a full portal knuckle assembly - you could then have a standard portal assembly that could be fitted to any axle modified to accept your "standard bolt patten" flange. - yes, you may likely need to be makeing axles to suit too, ut these can be made from premimum materials adn design and marketed as such (all part of a premimum marketed package) The benifit to your business of going to a flange bolt on unit is - the ready fittment to a wide variety of vehicles - single design portal unit for all applications - marketing as a premimum product - potential manufacturing savings on the standard items - ease of maintenance and fitting of the product - a range of portal ratios is possible within a standard housing configuration there is a reason that manufacturers go for a fully welded axle and knuckle assembly , It is the cost savings in a mass produced situation (which I am sure does not apply to the low volume after market modification market. small batch production at best, I would think) The Volvo C300 series axles are still regarded as best portals in world for the light vehicle solid axle market. - readily maintainable and very strong no noticable driveline backlash. - no problems with heat buildup in the portals, in sustained tropical summer highway operation or severe off road duty. - the steering was precise and car like on road and very managable off road. - without a doubt, it was concieved a s a premimum engineering item and was not cheep to build. But it absolutly delivered for the end user. There was nothing that made the volvo portal axles obsolete, the military didn't want petrol vehicles any more and the payload fitted between categories for many militaries who use adapted civilian vehicles. largely it was the lack of suitable diesel that killed the vehicle, not the axles having any shortfalls. Perhaps getting hold of one set of these axles and doing a design review would be worth considering in terms of the portal and knuckle areas?? anyway, just my thoughts
Yeah nah, thx. I’m just going to wait for the manufacturer offering of the Letech portal axles next year. Covered by official Ineos warranty, Letech is a trialed and proven brand for portal axles over many years and it‘s probably going to be wayyy more inexpensive.
@@carton79 we know. They are heavier, more expensive, and don’t address the major issues we see with the current front end. While I don’t have any first hand knowledge of their product. I am also going to make the unconfirmed statement that they also will 100% require you to replace your entire rear axle housing. I heard rumors their stuff was going to run 60K but I have not confirmed this and the attempts other have made to get pricing were unsuccessful
😂50k?? Let’s be real. After all the parts and kits are installed. The price point needs to come down. After you purchase a Ineos and your kit-145-150k!! Totally ridiculous. BTW, the people who say they will..almost NEVER follow through!
@@SargentDemo we hear this is too much for you. But everyone’s definition of expensive is different. I will be making calls this week but based on initial response of us saying if you really want this contact us and let’s do it…people are wanting to do it. So apparently it’s not “too much” for some
Wow. First video I haven’t been able to finish watching due to such a painful narrative. Squeezed 1 minute of info into 8 minutes. Must be a good welder.
@@philipparana9225 Are you advocating for not having options? Do you feel the off road market would be better if there were only one solid axle platform?
@@powers4x4 they aren’t for everyone. I love my 392, but I also don’t daily drive it. My suspicion is most of the Grenadier owners have several vehicles. It’s a fun vehicle, different interior, solid axle, something to drive on weekends and explore. We aim to just make the vehicle a whole lot more capable for those adventures
Thank you for doing the research (knowledgeably) , and taking the time to make this informative video. Your explanation of the pertinent issues with the Grenadier should make perfect sense to anyone who actually pays attention, and is really helpful to me. Knowing that your package should take care of all of the most onerous issues currently plaguing the vehicle, gives me confidence to go ahead and buy one next year. I had been waiting particularly for someone to offer portal-axles, but the fact that you are also addressing the other issues is a huge bonus.
Insane, and I love it. Appreciate the granular but simple explanation of what the expectations and deliverables are. Following. I hope I can be in a position to have a set at some point.
I'm an Ineos owner, and I don't need portals for what I do,, but I love hearing an expert explain the technical nuances. My experience so far is that you are dead right about the conflict of caster and pinion angle, as well as the double cardan joint in the steering. Even with no portals, I'd love to see someone take a run at the new axle housing to solve the front end geometry just for a 1.5-2" lift that would simultaneously solve steering stability and turning radius. I'm hoping the aftermarket can delivery that part of the equation. PS,, I've been running max caster and 33s since day 1, and it definitely helps, but I haven't lifted because of the issues with pinion angle.
I apply you forgiven the best review I ever seen anybody give
Not interested in portals, but definitely interested in a replacement front axle housing that fixes the pinion angle, lack of caster and turning radius.
You can adjust the steering stops and improve radius by 6ft.
Been scouring the internet for any news on this, appreciate the details! I'm looking at these, if I buy one I'll be interested : )
One question, curious how LeTech builds their portals for Grenadier-did they also replace the axles?
It’s a super cool approach to a great new platform so I’ll try to stay positive:
INEOS wants to sell 30,000 per year. If you can capture a .05% sell through/capture rate it would yield 15 customers annually.
The biggest issue you’ll have is creating awareness. Secondly: INEOS is likely going to offer portals as well for less and from the factory. So you’ll have to communicate the value for yours (of which there is).
If I were to switch platforms to this, I’d want a total package offered with recommended shocks, installation and warranty. I’d also want a wheel and tire option (or specs to choose my own). I’d also have a question re: lockers (are they included)?
You could try to set up a dealer network with INEOS dealers or become very active on whatever enthusiast platform they have or will create. But odds are that if you do a good enough job, Jim Ratcliffe (CEO - INEOS) would probably offer to buy you out/partnership.
Good luck and I hope to see it!
IA are now offering factory portals. Keep your warranty that way.
@@mikefoster7085 I haven't heard it be described as a true factory option; Lynn Calder said not series production but batch production.
I could see it being more like vehicles roll off the production line and are shipped to LeTech for the work
Looking at prices Ineos are charging for the Arcane Works products, I'd be very happy if portals came in at the prices you are suggesting. Unfortunately, I'm thinking more double that figure.
Ineos are squeezing the pips and pricing for the exclusive end of the market.
Given someone priced a replacement axle via a dealer and got a $20k cost, there's got to be a latent market to sell low mileage Carraro axles if they're swapped out for the Weld74 kit?
@@stevegreen101 apologies,.I meant portals with factory warranty
I'm on my 2nd front driveshaft. Fortunate to have Ineos warranty the first one, though I don't think many others will be that lucky. I'm ready to ditch the Eibach lift/level and just run the factory ride height until you guys drop this...which I REALLY hope you do. Great video, gives me some hope for making the IG my main offroader.
@@powers4x4 it looks like we have enough people stepping up to make this happen. One of our engineers shot a bunch of content today with an angle finder and went through all the angles. We will throw together a video with more detail of what we are dealing with here soon. I will be calling guys in the next week or so to discuss timelines and money. So if you are serious… email us info@74weld.com
How about portals for the new defender?
Curious about this too
Give LR Denver a call. Steve has looked into it but not yet committed. It seems like an obvious solution but I haven't looked into the technical details of actually making it happen. Getting more input/feedback from the customer base can only help push it toward market.
Also, Quinn isn't much of a Rover fan as you can tell from his comments in this video. I've heard him in other interviews basically saying 'hell no' to Rovers although I don't think he actually knows much about them - for example here he mentioned the Range Rover which clearly would not be the model to approach here where the Defender would be. The only plus I can think of is if you can use one part number across multiple Rover models. I'm not familiar enough with the current Rover platforms to know if that's possible or not.
Appreciate the content. Some feedback if you don't mind. In future I suggest including footage of the components which are being discussed instead of using a single video angle for the entire video. Although I understood all that was said, I'm not familiar with the Grenadier components so would be great to have a visual and other viewers may not understand what you're talking about. Cheers
If we’re talking serious, I’m more than serious for portals for my 1500 ZR2 😅 I just put 37” AT4W’s on it, I did a lot of cutting and took out the crash bar
I’d personally like to see you get to talk with the grenadier engineers. Maybe talk them into a 2 door with some stock portals;)
Not an ineos owner, but interested in possibly buying one. The steering/front geometry has been flagged by several people online, especially with 1-3” lift. Perhaps a corrected front housing with improved knuckles would be a more popular option? Especially if you could keep it around 10k?
Very interested overall for a build on mine
Thanks, i have better understanding of caster. I come from the bike world and caster is called rake. The tighter the rack, the more nervous the handing but quicker response. Longer rake, more relax ride but slower reaction to turning
@@peopleschamp7258 yep…same concept different name.
I have often wondered what the tech specs are for the Carraro axles, such as axle diameter, ring diameter...and strength wise, is there a Dana axle that it equivalent to. Publications have mentioned that they are robust, but that is about it.
@@BoanergesJim we have not dove into them and since to my knowledge there aren’t much in the way of aftermarket support or lockers/gears we probably won’t mess with them. The Spicer stuff just has so much aftermarket support it makes more sense to start with them
Remember Magna Steyr helped develop the drivetrain, for Ineos. The same folks who build the G-Wagons. Probably why these issues exist. But there is also a price point they were probably trying to hit. Some of Agile’s products can help with steering. Not all of course. You guys and John should definitely speak to Ineos .. no wonder they have a 60 month warranty.
@@jasonb4988 what they needed to do was give a proper relative angle between caster and pinion angle. There is no excuse or reason for their choice…it was likely an oversight. The only band aid you can put on the turning radius is a shorter pitman arm which is likely not a good idea for the box. Housings can fix all this, just a bummer we have to go this way
I don’t have enough money for portals or a grenadier but I think it would be cool 😂
+1......I am very interested in the full kit at that price!
if you do go ahead with it, can you please make a custom 74Weld Method 207 wheel for the kit as well.
Appreciate the breakdown. Clearly some thought has gone into this. Based on your track record and what you have been able to accomplish I suspect you’ll succeed with this as well. Interested for sure and willing to put down a deposit. Any process in place for that?
You need to do a project with Agile and John. Offer some type of package to get the 10 owners ..
Dang it’s a shame that a brand new vehicle has to be changed so much to work properly…but I know you guys will fix it all and make it completely dialed…
Would you be able to slap those axle housings/Portals onto an 80 series land cruiser? I don't have 35k for you but might extend your market if they were compatible.
@@OverLandCruzer yep…totally doable
@74weld that would be amazing.
@@74weld 80 series on 74 weld portals would be a dream!!!!
Didn’t letech already do it?
@@sebastianfernandez2865 they showed some spy photos. No word on when or how much they are charging, but their stuff is usually cast iron while ours is billet aluminum. I’m sure their product will be fine. Ours will just be better. Still the only race tested portal ever produced.
Build it .. !
I’m surprised Marin sent you a Grenadier? I looked at their Grenadier‘s at the dealer they’re asking top dollar for these things and then trying to modify one would be unconsolidated nightmare, by the time you spend all this money you could buy a jeep or Bronco for half the price and modify it totally affordable. I thoroughly looked at the Grenadier even crawled underneath and could see visually that the pinion angles just won’t work if you lift it. hopefully the next generation they produce they will think of modifications ground clearance etc. tires are too small out of the box and vehicle is a little too low, it’s really a neat vehicle and I hope Grenadier does well, the dealer in Marin county will probably do well there because there is so much wealth in that town and there’s people that live there that probably would spend the money 50,000 plus extra dollars to modify one of these, But for the average hard-working person who loves four wheeling the Grenadier is just too expensive especially if you want to modify it, The Marin dealership does have a lot of Grenadier‘s to choose from so if you’re looking for one they have a good inventory. “Thanks” for the review, and there will be people that can Afford to build one of these and I think it’s great that your company is developing these products👍👍👍👍
Yup, i'm down!
For 35k I think you’ve hit a home run. I’d stop buying guns for a while to save up!
Coming from the jeep, rock crawling world and 1 tons, it’s going to depend. Most guys are going to overland this thing which means lots of gear inside and on the roof with possible towing. I think the hybrid 44/60 will work for those crossing over from jeep that plan to rock crawl more than carrying a ton of gear for Overlanding. If you want to capture the majority group, you might need to offer a full one ton option to allow for the payload and towing capacity. The majority of this demographic will not wheel this thing hard, and likely most that will pony up 35k for a full kit will do so for looks and bragging rights. If I did it I’d want full one tons to justify the cost, but even then, I’d likely just do tons without portals and just chop the fenders. If money was no issue then hell yeah send it! Thank you for discussing caster and pinion angle, exactly why I had my double DC front shaft built!
I should have clarified that fact that all of our stuff is based around a 1ton F350 bearing pack. You want to add a bunch of weight…go for it
@ yeah I saw that and that’s awesome! But the Currie rock jock tubing and center diff are not, although much beefier than a factory D44. I’ve seen tubes bend on the rubicon under heavy weight and 37’s. I’m not worried about the outers, it’s the tube and carrier that concerns me since this car is significantly heavier to begin with than a wrangler.
@ they run a much heavier wall tubing over stock. The main constraint on strength is tubing diameter. We did a video about axle housings where we explain these concepts and tell you why a 4” .250 wall tube is going to be a whole lot stronger than a 3” .500 wall tube. The current Currie stuff is pretty damn good for most and is going to be a substantial upgrade over any stock housing in a Jeep or Grenadier
@ oh don’t I know it! I had a Currie VXR 60 and a shaved 14 bolt in my rig. Several members of my club had rock jock 44’s and 44/60 hybrids. Though the hybrid was an affordable and accessible option for the “JKU sport crowd”, they always ended up going up to 60’s or even 70’s. I’d prefer to pay for the heftier 60 price the first time rather than doing it twice, only if it’s feasible with the limitations in space and suspension under this thing.
Interested and willing to pay 25%
@@TomDavies-z7l email us at info@74weld.com and we will reach out. We are not taking money yet on this package but actively developing a plan
I would be more interested in fixing Castor and angle for the pinion Cardan and steering mods on the stock setup.
@@jayv2447 so would we…but if both are not good and fixing one makes the other worse, you are kind of stuck
Can you please explain why the current OEM pinion angle is a problem for the front axle portals when you are bolting the portal on and by design of the portal, you can set the steering geometery caster and camber to whatever you desire.?
- seems you spent a lot of time talking of the shortfalls of the OEM design when this is utterly irrelevent to a custom protal design that will provide the desired geometery
Having owned and operated a vehicle with portals for an extended period, I can say, that there is currently no better solution to under vehicle clearance on the market than portals. Portals can still deliver good on road steering characterists if setup properly.
Portals can compromise recovery when boged deeply, particularly if the wheel center has gone below the surface crust into the mud
- in this case, ono is in a better position for recovery without portals
your self perception of your onroad vahcle driveline tech appears to somewhat exceed reality
- eg the Land Rover Discovery Series 2 has a double cardon joint on the front of the front driveshaft).
- It appears that the standard front drive shaft of the Grenadier has CV joints (with balls etc) as opposed to double carden joints.
- It is a really really bad look for the competency of your business when you get these two mixed up (or even worse dont under stand the difference between these two items)
all this incompetency coming from a well articulated presentation from a mob who does vehicle upgrades and mods
- my goodness, what could we expect by way of competent engineering when the basics are misundertood
Note that your actual presentation is well delivered and presented despite not knowing what you are talking about all the time.
- so credit for this aspect
- your overall thinking on the pros and cons and conceptual design seems good thinking
- I wish you well with this project - I recon that you would surely get more than 10 kits wanted world wide for the axle package
- you have integrity in your scope for pricing
@@johnallen3555 while I appreciate comments, you draw conclusions then throw some pretty heavy shade our way based on incorrect info…I’ll try not to take it personal. But let’s break this down
1. Caster is set by the INNER knuckle. Nothing you ever do on the outer knuckle (the portal) will ever be able to change this. So when you say it’s “utterly irrelevant to a custom portal that will provide the desired geometry” this is also wrong. All turning pivots around the inner knuckle and its fixed points…if you don’t change those fixed points of the inner pivot you can’t influence caster OR camber.
2. The front driveline on the grenadier is a CV. It runs a typical rubber and metal boot. While I don’t have specs on the physical cv boot used by Ineos, these boots typically have operating angles that max out at 6-12 degrees depending on rpm rating. The higher the rpm rating the less angle the boot will allow. The metal /rubber boot is necessary to be able to handle the high RPM seen by drivelines. A typical rubber boot used on the front of an IFS vehicle sees much lower rpm due to the fact it is located after the ring and pinion reduction.
I referenced a double cardon joint of a rear jeep driveline because lots of people are familiar with them. I did that in reference to the front axle shafts because they function and look similar…if you thought I was referencing the same thing I wasn’t. I was just trying to explain what a double cardon looked like and didn’t have a photo or physical one handy…
You lost me with the “all this incompetency” comments. You might have misunderstood what I was saying, I might not have been clear enough, but jumping from that to calling us incompetent engineers? My guess is you reserve this type of attack for internet conversations only…and if you are going to say those types of things and you lead off with a comment like “just change caster in the front outer knuckle” we have a problem. I’m all for discussions and questions, but when your question is about our competency due to you asserting we do something that can’t be done, I’m left over here scratching my head 🤦♂️
@@74weld
Thanks for your reply
1. Caster - I am sorry, but I presumed that your portal would include a new inner and outer matching knuckle design (my bad for makeing assumptions) The reason that I made this assumption that the existing knuckle would not be suitable for the additional loads that portals place on the knuckle. To do otherwise derates the from the OEM capacity for dynamic loads due to the additional leverage that the portals have on the knuckle. I would be pretty concerned of the thought of any derating in this area due to the loadings from the portal.
The Volvo C300 series axles have bolt on portals that include the inner and outer knuckles. To me this is a better way to go than using a knuckle not designed for the loads that a portal can impose. It also lends itself to a more generic axle design that is readily adapted in lenght for a particular application.
2 CV vs Double carden
It is obvious from your comment that you do recognise the difference between double carden and CV with balls
- I was harsh with my use of words when it appeared in your video that you did not recognise and name the cv, but called it a double carden.
- face to face I would have simarly verbally challanged you on this, giving you an opportunity to either confirm or dispell my concerns. So no, not a FB warrior hiding behind keyboard.
It does look like your company does some nice work and your explanation as to why you would choose to do entirely new axles is very good
All the best and thanks for both the video and the reply.
@ no modern axle that I know of has a bolt on inner knuckles. The grenadier inner C is welded straight to the housing. We replace the entire outer knuckle with a new one. As for the additional leverage, based on the bearings that the grenadier runs it wouldn’t be a problem at all, but since the caster is so bad from the get go we would replace the housing with a ball joint 60 knuckle. The Volvo C303 was last produced in 1984…it’s been a long time since anyone made a removable inner and I don’t really see any benefit to going back to those.
@@74weld I know it is a little more work, but,
- remove axle & disassemble
- cut the axle housing and weld on a flange to allow for a full portal knuckle assembly
- you could then have a standard portal assembly that could be fitted to any axle modified to accept your "standard bolt patten" flange.
- yes, you may likely need to be makeing axles to suit too, ut these can be made from premimum materials adn design and marketed as such (all part of a premimum marketed package)
The benifit to your business of going to a flange bolt on unit is
- the ready fittment to a wide variety of vehicles
- single design portal unit for all applications
- marketing as a premimum product
- potential manufacturing savings on the standard items
- ease of maintenance and fitting of the product
- a range of portal ratios is possible within a standard housing configuration
there is a reason that manufacturers go for a fully welded axle and knuckle assembly , It is the cost savings in a mass produced situation (which I am sure does not apply to the low volume after market modification market. small batch production at best, I would think)
The Volvo C300 series axles are still regarded as best portals in world for the light vehicle solid axle market.
- readily maintainable and very strong no noticable driveline backlash.
- no problems with heat buildup in the portals, in sustained tropical summer highway operation or severe off road duty.
- the steering was precise and car like on road and very managable off road.
- without a doubt, it was concieved a s a premimum engineering item and was not cheep to build. But it absolutly delivered for the end user.
There was nothing that made the volvo portal axles obsolete, the military didn't want petrol vehicles any more and the payload fitted between categories for many militaries who use adapted civilian vehicles.
largely it was the lack of suitable diesel that killed the vehicle, not the axles having any shortfalls.
Perhaps getting hold of one set of these axles and doing a design review would be worth considering in terms of the portal and knuckle areas??
anyway, just my thoughts
Yeah nah, thx. I’m just going to wait for the manufacturer offering of the Letech portal axles next year. Covered by official Ineos warranty, Letech is a trialed and proven brand for portal axles over many years and it‘s probably going to be wayyy more inexpensive.
Cute thumbnail 🇦🇺
So INEOS couldn't figure all this out?
Letech from Germany makes portals for the grenadier.
ua-cam.com/users/shortsvoqgzfR-2Hg?si=_crU3Spa9DOsnjL_
@@carton79 we know. They are heavier, more expensive, and don’t address the major issues we see with the current front end. While I don’t have any first hand knowledge of their product. I am also going to make the unconfirmed statement that they also will 100% require you to replace your entire rear axle housing. I heard rumors their stuff was going to run 60K but I have not confirmed this and the attempts other have made to get pricing were unsuccessful
@74weld that's why they don't sell them yet.
That explains your approach and explanation. Thanks for the answer.
LeTech will be building the portal conversions for Ineos.
It would be completely badass but I dont think there is a market for it. You would need a hardcore enthusiast with deep pockets to sell to.
35k is a bit much. My intuition is your roi would be bad.
50k listen until the end.
Carraro axles
😂50k?? Let’s be real. After all the parts and kits are installed. The price point needs to come down. After you purchase a Ineos and your kit-145-150k!! Totally ridiculous. BTW, the people who say they will..almost NEVER follow through!
@@SargentDemo we hear this is too much for you. But everyone’s definition of expensive is different. I will be making calls this week but based on initial response of us saying if you really want this contact us and let’s do it…people are wanting to do it. So apparently it’s not “too much” for some
Wow. First video I haven’t been able to finish watching due to such a painful narrative. Squeezed 1 minute of info into 8 minutes. Must be a good welder.
35k for dana 44s, just buy a jeep.
@@philipparana9225 Are you advocating for not having options? Do you feel the off road market would be better if there were only one solid axle platform?
I'd pay $50k just to never have to own a Jeep 😅
@@powers4x4 they aren’t for everyone. I love my 392, but I also don’t daily drive it. My suspicion is most of the Grenadier owners have several vehicles. It’s a fun vehicle, different interior, solid axle, something to drive on weekends and explore. We aim to just make the vehicle a whole lot more capable for those adventures