I think I would have included Julian being an augment on this list because although it wasn't planned in advance, it actually works well with the character, and really adds another layer to him. Especially when you watch back the older episodes, and notice the myriad of subtle little lies he told along the way. Garak would be impressed!
That was more of a retcon than a twist though. As you said, it wasn't planned. It would have been a better twist if it had been planned and there had been subtle hints.
What "subtle little lies" did you notice, exactly? Examples? Honest question. Just guessing what you mean, though, is that we can interpret all that time he spends acting like a twit as just his cover. It falls apart if any moments of ineptitude have significant consequences, though.
Deep Space Nine episode Whispers, O'Brien is being ignored and shut out from his daily activities indicating some kind of conspiracy. Regular viewers of the show would assume that every member of the crew apart from O'Brien have been replaced by an alien entity, when in fact it's the other way around.
I watched during first year of covid, it just gave me a harder depression after watching it😢. I wished at least their logs were saved but just all gone.
I loved the Eddington twist because in rewatch it didn’t feel like it was entirely from left field, it felt like a dangerous yet understandable development of a character who had at least been around for more than a few episodes
I agree, the Eddington twist is one of the more nuanced and subtle ones in Trek, and to top it off, a really understandable one. I always loved how he played the martyr against Sisko's forged tyrant, and the fact that it works in his favour (i.e. the audience at least resonates with Eddington) is just chef kiss fantastic character writing.
Agreed. DS9 had few twists you saw a mile away, but others like Eddington was great. I really appreciated his send off from the series to fool sisko one more time to the save everyone else.
The ending of 'Let That Be Your Last Battlefield', in TOS. It's an utterly brilliant twist that still works if you watch the episode again knowing what it is. When I first saw it as a kid it blew my mind.
it was repeated in an episode of enterprise, where two factions from the same planet fought over how many days it took for their god (or was it gods) to create the universe.
The Burn explanation really does frost my cookies. I was really hoping it would be Omega related something along the lines of it powering the time portals and going boom.
The Burn breaks the key edict of mystery stories: the audience must be able to figure out the mystery based on the clues provided. This also makes the show more re-watchable (or re-readable in the case of a book) because the audience will go back and try and find the clues for themselves. The Burn has NO clues! Zero. Zip! There was literally no way for anyone to have guessed what happened! I wanted to send this to the writers and make them pledge to follow it forever more: "Do you promise that your detectives shall well and truly detect the crimes presented to them using those wits which it may please you to bestow upon them and not placing reliance on nor making use of Divine Revelation, Feminine Intuition, Mumbo Jumbo, Jiggery-Pokery, Coincidence, or Act of God?" - G. K. Chesterton's oath for membership for the British Detection Club (a sort of writing club for British mystery writers) I was burned by The Burn and it really turned me off to the show.
@@Farzlepot Sorry, but we do not know how Dilithium worrks. And it is not a bad twist, because the most anticipated solutions all would have been lame, because every one would have expected such. It was very unexpected and that made it a good twist, even if the solution itself was not the best. But there had been hints, which made clear that the most common theories about the Burn are wrong. And as I said, no one really noticed them.
Siddig was also not informed about Bashirs genetic engineering backstory until the last minute. Makes me wonder whether the writers ever told him anything that could be ya know... relevant to his character.
I think it's more that they didn't know about the switch or the enhancement until they approved the respective stories. They couldn't tell him because it wasn't planned.
@@QBCPerdition those kinds of major character reveals really should be sketched out far in advance. If not from the beginning of the show than at least from the beginning of the season so the writers, directors, and actors can lay the ground work so that when you look back all the dots connect. The whole channeling replacement thing makes so much less sense when you rewatch episodes. Granted people at the time didn’t have the previous episodes *right* at their finger tips but even though I was young I remember dissecting episodes on message boards and what time, people noticed the inconsistencies.
In that case it's because the writers themselves hadn't come up with it until the very episode in which it was revealed. It's really a retcon, not a twist.
Today that would be the case but at the time most shows, including Star Trek, were very episodic. Designed so that each episode could be watched by itself even for a new viewer. Writers didn’t plan out character arcs like we’re used to now. DS9 took what were at the time huge risks when it started to become more serialized in the later seasons.
Whenever I see clips of the original series among all this new stuff I'm just in awe of how incredible the original Star Trek was, it was just dripping with class, style, and characters that perfectly complimented each other.
I'm quite frankly shocked... that neither of the big twists involving Riker are here. The discovery of a second Riker due to warp jank on TNG was enough of a shock although it came near the start of the episode. But then later when it seems like Will is having a crossover episode with DS9 only for it to turn out to be Thomas instead, who's joined the Maquis and betrays the DS9 crew? Damn, that was a hell of a twist
One thing they missed in Ship in a Bottle was Picard entered the holodeck in a different uniform then the one he left in. Meaning he would have had a holographic uniform. So, after leaving the the holodeck, his uniform should disappeared leading to an awkward moment.
You've forgotten that most things that aren't living on a holodeck are tangible because the holodeck combines transporter and replicator technology with holographic and force field technology.
@@jwb52z9 If so, when Picard demonstrates to Moriarty by throwing a book out of the holodeck, it should hit the wall on the other side of the corridor and not evaporate. That would have been the first notion they were stuck in the holodeck, it was not behaving as it should.
I would have included the slowest reveal in DS9: Blood tests were a deliberate Red-Herring by the Changelings and it took a season and a half to reveal the full extent of that deception. Martok introduces blood tests at the beginning of season 4, it's a huge plot point in Paradise Lost and Homefront in the middle of season 4. Martok is revealed to be a changeling in the first episode of Season 5. And when we finally meet the real Martok in the middle of Season 5, at the same time we find out Bashir has been replaced, we also find out that Martok had no idea about the Federation/Klingon conflict in the entirety of Season 4. The result is two years of the Klingons and Federation using a bogus method of attempting to find Changelings in their midst and all the destruction and infiltration they likely accomplished because of it.
U absolutely right on that man those revelations in season 5 made me look at numerous points of 4&5 differently when i rewatched the first time and decades later i still find new things when rewatching...that really is amazing writing
@@antoniokastrocarlisledemel6617 Planned or not (I have no idea) it added so many layers to the Klingon War, the Dominion Cold War, and finally the Dominion War itself.
you forget Joseph Sisko out right told his son the flaw in the blood test during season 4 ep 11. Joseph argues that if the Changelings are all that clever, they'll find a way around the blood screening tests telling Ben there's not a test that exists that someone smart enough can't get around. it is part of why Martok and Bashir were still alive, to be blood bags to get past the tests
@@TheEarthDragoon That's why I pointed out that it was a major plot point in Homefront and Paradise lost. But apparently the current writers didn't understand that cutting the hand is a stupid way of sussing out changelings because 30 years later Starfleet is still using it!
The Burn was utterly ridiculous and probably one of the worst plot devices of Discovery. You really just want Burnham to wake up and come to the conclusion it was only a dream. And find JR Ewing being alive and well on some Texas like planet.
Or justpull a "These are the voyages" and end it all with Tom Paris the Holonovel Writer stating "Computer, end program and delete 'Discovery' & its' associated files"... :P
The cause of the Burn was basically Star Trek’s version of mutants! A kid gains Phoenix like powers from a planet’s radiation and release a telekinetic dilithium disrupting blast powerful enough to spread across the entire galaxy!
@@demariushenderson1802 You would think that at this point alternatives would be available. The idea that one of the most scientifically focused civilizations couldn't work something out is ridiculous.
Ship in a Bottle is such a great episode. It's so creative and I didn't see it coming the first time I watched it. I love the set-up at the beginning of people catching things with the incorrect hand, etc.
I think everyone who wasn't born this century picked up on discovery talking crap with, well, everything, from "the burn" to the broken klingon things, all the way to the tardis-style interior of a ship allegedly smaller than the Constitution class, they pretty much seemed to make up stuff as they went, ignoring established canon, lore and history...
Spoilers for _Picard_ Season 3 episode 1-2 Speaking of TARDIS interiors, the Titan A under Shaw is absurd. We see a small shuttle fly pretty close to it with Riker and Picard in the first episode (22:40-22:50), and there would have to be some pretty significant visual distortion of the sizes given that we see it fly in a curved path alongside the ship. In the second episode a different ship thrown at Titan A that skates across the top of the saucer causes damage on deck 11 (23:18-24:02) of a 12-deck ship. We get a shot from the rear before they say the deck number, and there's no apparent damage to the secondary hull, either.
That season 6 episode "In the Pale Moonlight" where it's just Sisko narrating the story of how he betrayed everything Starfleet stands for in order to drag the Romulans into the Dominion war is a good "twist I never saw coming." The twist is that there was no twist. The whole episode I kept waiting for the moment where Sisko somehow manages to clean everything up and do it Picard style. But he didn't. He just doubled down, took the hit to his morals on the chin, and schemed his way forward. But I suppose I should've seen it coming all the way back in season 1 when Sisko punched Q and his explanation was "I'm not Picard..."
here is an idea! use the chapters to 1 seperate the points, and 2, give the series they are in as spoiler. that way you can watch the (in my case) DS9,TNG, Voyager ones with ease, while skipping the ones Im still to see
You'd think I wouldn't have forgotten about that, even after several years, lol. He was probably still called Siddig El Fadil when the changeling took his place!
Ok the "Borg Pacification" was called out episode 1 ... Numerous people came out and said who it was the moment they saw the new Borg. As for the Kelpian "Burn" cause .. worst reveal they could possibly come up with
There‘s another Bashir twist that supersedes the changeling twist in Season 5, namely the reveal that Bashir has been genetically modified in his childhood. This fundamentally changed his entire personality with a similar prep time to Alexander Siddig as with the other twist moment.
From DS9... Gul Dukat appears to be off on his own attacking the Dominion fleet in his Klingon ship... BUT NO! He JOINS the fleet on their way to Cardassia where he becomes head of the government there!
What about the BIGGEST Star Trek twist of all time that definitely nobody at all saw coming. That Benedict Cumberbatch was actually playing Kahn!! Wow what a twist!
The whole thing where you leave the holodeck, but don't really leave the holodeck, was done in a book first. The episode seemingly borrowed the idea from that.
I've really got to look up the episodes with Moriarty, I became such a fan of Daniel Davis with The Nanny in reruns. I did like his Moriarty character, it'd be an interesting comparison. Also with twists, I liked Will Riker's accidental twin Thomas surprisingly becoming a member of the Maquis.
I feel bad about #5, because in isolation it's actually a pretty touching story. Unfortunately they made it the punchline to a massive season-long mystery. It's no wonder so many folks were let down considering the sheer weight of everything leading up to it. It would have made for a wonderful one or two-part episode in a more episodic series like SNW. Make the stakes lower, like restrict it to a populated star system or something. As for #6, does it _really_ matter? Season 2 of _Picard_, (if not Season 1, as well) should be stricken from canon. Very little else in the season makes any sense, either; no use bending over backwards trying to make it fit in. Might as well pretend it never happened. It sure hasn't influenced Season 3 very much.
I'm really glad that I thought the Burn was a stupid plot point from the beginning because the episode itself was probably the strongest story of the season, arguably the whole series. It was a rare and welcome instance of DSC actually feeling like classic Trek, and it being meant as the payoff to the big season-long mystery box did it such a disservice.
Moriotti leaving the holodeck was a good episode but I was able to deduce the ruse during the commercial break.I guess that was my "Sherlock" moment !Lol
@@Anduril74871 for sure!I also was inspired to write a story going back to "The Cage"that had the mind controlling TALOSIANS creating a grand illusion of all TREK episodes being nothing more than fantasy created for some unknown reason.There are so many scripts that could be invented it boggles the mind but the last episode and reveal in whatever incarnation of TREK it be would be ,would surely be a twist few would had anticipated!Lol
1:54 Nooo... someone, not saying who because I don't know, someone forgot the Bajoran naming orientation. Family name first, person's name second. Example use with Ro Laren, when everyone would say Ensign Laren, she would correct them with Ro, Ensign Ro, not Laren, as that is her (in our conventions) first name. So, with Dr. Mora Pol, it's Dr. Mora, proper use that was constantly used in DS9 before, during and after his appearances. AGAIN, not saying that someone should be blamed, just that someone should remember this when saying a Bajoran's name or should have remembered this. EDIT: I brought this up, because when I was only listening to this video and I heard "Dr. Pol" I was very confused by who that is, until I looked up who had the name Pol and saw that the video meant Dr. Mora.
That Dr. Bashir twist was crazy when it aired. It blew the minds of everyone in the online Trek community (which was small and fledgling back in the 90s) We weren’t used to storytelling like that at all.
Yeah, that was a major reveal that fundamentally changed the character (for the audience) going forward and added a new dimension to him looking at his past experiences.
I personally didn't like the Borg getting an origin story and becoming allies. The Borg could be really terrifying and nobody knew where they came from or what they truly wanted other than assimilation. It was a true piece of Lovecraftian cosmic horror.
Also, true Lovecraftian cosmic horror can't be beaten with quantum torpedoes. Lovecraftian horror seeps into the mind slowly with no one realizing until it's far too late.
Why join the Borg? Queen: We have a supreme array of technological and biological advantages You can choose to have any augments you want. Better vision. Stronger muscles. An array of improvments on any of your primitive functions! Why not be Borg? Me: Hmm... Do you have jetp- Queen: YES WE HAVE JETPACK LEGS!
I never got the idea of the friendly Borg who join star fleet. Where were they the entire time the Borg were attacking Star fleet? Off hiding somewhere?
two that hit me hard 1st viewing: Kirk letting Elizabeth Keeler die, and Hugh Culber surviving in the network. I agree with Sue that Julian being an augment was a more profound reveal than the replacement arc.
Lower Decks has been such an amazing show. I am sad that season 5 will be its final season. The fact we have Strange New Worlds AND Lower Decks back to back has been beyond amazing, and the SNW/LD crossover was freaking glorious.
While I didn't know exactly what they had in store for the Eddington character, I suspected it was something pretty big, because when Ken Marshall (Krull) showed up as a cast member, I knew he wasn't going to be playing a minor character that was only going to appear in the background. Go Lucky Loony!
Season 3 of PICARD has to be a "backdoor pilot" like season 2 of DISCOVERY was for STRANGE NEW WORLDS... I hope that the series centers around the ongoing mission of the TITAN-A with CAPTAIN SEVEN (unless Captain Shaw survives, definitely enjoy the dynamic of him with Commander "Hanson") and ANSWER the Borg question from season 3 of Picard!
I would have thought next gen the best of both worlds would be on there, nobody imagined Picard would be assimilated and used his knowledge to destroy 39 ships, plus also could Riker kill his captain and friend
Ugh! I knew something off when I first saw Michael Eddington. But it took me longer to realize the actor playing him was also Colwyn from the movie Krull.
The Enterprise episode "Doctors Orders". I never expected that twist. Although it felt like a retelling of the Voyager episode "One". However, with that one the crew were in stasis for a month with Seven of Nine and the Doctor maintaining systems. Whereas here there are only 4 days to get through the region of changing space and thinking that from the beginning that Phlox and T'Pol are the only ones awake due to the effects of the region they are in being benign to Phlox and T'Pol and one of them only thinks the other one is awake when that fact is never mentioned until near the end of the episode. I thought a trope of Star Trek is to never retell a story they did in the past unless it was a continuation of that story. Even Alex Kurtzman has said multiple times that he doesn't want to retell stories they have done previously. So, I do not know why they did that here. The twist was surprising, and I never expected it, but it was a retell of Voyager's "One".
_Enterprise's_ "Oasis" Is pretty similar to _DS9's_ "Shadowplay." "I was sitting with Scott Bakula at lunch about two or three days into shooting the episode. He said, “I like this script. I think this is a good one.” I said, “Yeah, we did this one in season three.” And he looked at me and said, “What?” I said, “It was the same sort of story.” " _-- Rene Auberjonois, 2011_
The Voyager episode on holodeck program about the Maquis rebellion. When Commander Tuvok revealed he was the writer of he program also was a "twist" no one expected after Janeway requests to find out who designed the program.,
What I never saw coming is Moriarty appearing in a Picard S3 promotional trailer. Considering the first three episodes, I'm very intrigued of how he'll be involved. If at all...
8:50 my favourite theory for the burn was an intergalactic exploration ship was damaged and the strange music was their distress call. Possibly the caretakers people (or another from the same galaxy). Their attempt to return home quickly was what caused the burn. The actual cause? A Kelpian child crying because his mommy passing? The writers should be publicly flogged for that terribly weak and unbelievable twist.
Q said how it would end with the Borg in the first episode he introduced them. As for the new Borg mantra, on the Queen's trip back home she picked up Bernie Sanders as the new Borg Spokesman. We are the Borg assimilation is optional. as he does his little hand gesture.
Unfortunately the Seska Retaliation aka Worst Case Scenario was the first episode of Voyager I ever saw. And I started watching Ds9 in season six. So Eddington, Odo's origins and what Seska was doing still a Bajoran were *completely* lost on me. But when I saw the Ds9 episodes later I was still able to cheer them on and say 'well done writers!'
I definitely agree, Gregory. I was a late watcher, partly because I couldn't get it at first and had first thought it was part of "DS9" (and didn't like it), but gave it a chance after "Broken Bow" and loved it better than "DS9"!
@Virginia Connor DS9 is still my favorite but every golden age Trek has the first 2 season blues. Some great stuff but overall finding themselves. We are lucky enough to consider it now yet I still miss ENT
People crap on it all the time, but it's my favorite to re-watch. All the way through episode 21 of season 4. You know, the last episode. Because there is no episode 22.
I started Discovery knowing Lorca was a mirror universe imposter. Knowing this made his character infinitely more enjoyable. This might be one twist that could work better if the audience knew it in advance. Still, it was a hell of a reveal when the prime universe crew figured it out. :D
Not only did I not see Eddington's true agenda coming.......I didn't even realise he was played by that Kenneth Marshall. He appeared so different from the early 1980's 'Marco Polo' and 'Krull'. Fine actor and he did the part justice.
Wrong by the first entry. A new record. Afunny story. I was in middle school when DS9 first started. I remember back in season one telling a friend that I thought it was fairly obvious that they can't find much about Odo's species was because it was from the Gamma Quadrant. Almost immediately as the word The Dominion name was brought up in season two, I said: I bet you five bucks they turned out to be Odo's people.
It was an incredible moment of trek, but I've always had a problem with everyone's shock at seeing how similar Romulans look to Vulcans, when literally every other time they meet a new species they always look exactly like humans and no one bats an eye about it.
Not to relitigate this, but the Burn was so dumb because there are a number of FTL propulsion methods in Star Trek that do not use dilithium. To assume that the burn stopped all species in the alpha and beta quadrants from using warp and that none of them further developed a non-dilithium method of FTL is just ludicrous.
@@QBCPerdition Dilithium is just the control method for M/AM reactions. It regulates and controls the reaction within the reaction chamber as to not destroy the ship itself via contact with the reaction chamber walls. There's no reason they couldn't find a way to do the same via magnetic fields (which they use to keep the antimatter away from the matter in the containment vessels all the way to the reaction chamber, anyways). And there have been more than one example over the many years of Trek writing where the warp drive was used without a M/AM reaction chamber, to begin with. The Romulans using quantum singularity cores instead, for example. Every way you look at it, the Burn was the dumbest thing ever seen in Trek. And there are a lot of things to choose from for that award.
@compmanio36 The reason for dilithium in Star Trek is inconsistent. I understand it the same way you do, that it regulates the energy, but is not, inherently, necessary. Of course, ST IV implies that it is necessary, at least in a Bird of Prey in order to do a slingshot time travel maneuver. So I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that it is necessary for A/AM reactions. But as you point out, the Romulan singularity drive shouldn't need it. Though let's be even more generous and say, maybe the Romulans use it, too to regulate their energy. There are FTL transportation methods the specifically do not use dilithium. Transtators, Borg transwarp, Bajoran Lightsail, and those are just off the top of my head. To expect us to believe no one could come up with an FTL solution that didn't involve dilithium is insane.
@@QBCPerdition Yeah, I'm pretty sure Klingons still use a warp core as Starfleet does, so I guess they'd still need dilithium but yes, there are so many other methods of generating energy besides a M/AM reaction. These people don't understand the world of Trek and they don't seem to care.
I'm glad you didn't include the Tyler-Voq twist because lmao was that one ever obvious from the jump. And to think that they created a fictional castmember with a fraudulent imdb page and buried all the Klingon actors in 20 pounds of makeup prosthetics just for that, too.
"What would the recruitment even be like?" Uh, literally like any religion in existence. They offer stability, safety, fellowship, certainty of purpose, and a sense of superiority (not that that's an important thing to religions now of course hashtagsarcasm).. The only thing missing is the promise of a reward in the afterlife, but then again, do borg die of old age? Considering Jeratti is now 400 years old, give or take, it doesn't seem like it.
And they actually do offer those things, no scamming involved. You’re dying of a disease? We can heal you. You are lonely? You won’t be anymore. You have no purpose in life? We’ll give you one. You lost your home and livelihood due to climate change (or any other space phenomena)? We’ll give you a place to live. You want more knowledge? You’ll get all of the knowledge of billions of people from across time and space. You are afraid of death? You will live forever in the Collective memory.
How about Harry Kim never getting a promotion. All of us expected him to get a promotion eventually. The time and time again he was denied. That was a Twist none of us saw coming. Especially Harry
Am I the only one who enjoyed the Burn's twist? Don't get me wrong, I think the entire idea of the Burn was kind of dumb but the actual reason they gave for it didn't bother me. It was unique! It was also extremely convenient because it's at an entire planet filled with Dilithium, perfectly solving the entire issue the Burn caused, but still. An emotional child with a connection to the mineral I thought was much better than some natural disaster or big evil villain explanation would have been.
I think I would have included Julian being an augment on this list because although it wasn't planned in advance, it actually works well with the character, and really adds another layer to him. Especially when you watch back the older episodes, and notice the myriad of subtle little lies he told along the way. Garak would be impressed!
That was more of a retcon than a twist though. As you said, it wasn't planned. It would have been a better twist if it had been planned and there had been subtle hints.
Garak would be astounded. Unbelieving indeed. :)
What "subtle little lies" did you notice, exactly? Examples? Honest question. Just guessing what you mean, though, is that we can interpret all that time he spends acting like a twit as just his cover.
It falls apart if any moments of ineptitude have significant consequences, though.
To be fair we have no idea when he was replaced. The uniform means nothing because it could have been what he slept any giving night.
Deep Space Nine episode Whispers, O'Brien is being ignored and shut out from his daily activities indicating some kind of conspiracy. Regular viewers of the show would assume that every member of the crew apart from O'Brien have been replaced by an alien entity, when in fact it's the other way around.
Hmm, I disagree.
I was a regular viewer, and....well....
O'Brien must suffer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@sirhenry9313 thought it was a good twist on a common trope
Yeah. It was a crazy twist
Up to the last moment in Whispers your hooked wondering what's going on. Love it.
This was one of my favorite bottle DS9 episodes.
Voyager episodes of Course: Oblivion where they were all copies of the silver blood totally caught me off guard.
That one kept me awake. 😳
That episode I havnt watched twice because of how depressing it was 😢
It shocked me, too, and it depressed me that they were met with such a terrible fate. 😣
I watched during first year of covid, it just gave me a harder depression after watching it😢. I wished at least their logs were saved but just all gone.
I loved the Eddington twist because in rewatch it didn’t feel like it was entirely from left field, it felt like a dangerous yet understandable development of a character who had at least been around for more than a few episodes
I agree, the Eddington twist is one of the more nuanced and subtle ones in Trek, and to top it off, a really understandable one. I always loved how he played the martyr against Sisko's forged tyrant, and the fact that it works in his favour (i.e. the audience at least resonates with Eddington) is just chef kiss fantastic character writing.
Agreed. DS9 had few twists you saw a mile away, but others like Eddington was great. I really appreciated his send off from the series to fool sisko one more time to the save everyone else.
@@sicily7220 yeah, Eddington always had to have the last word.
The ending of 'Let That Be Your Last Battlefield', in TOS. It's an utterly brilliant twist that still works if you watch the episode again knowing what it is. When I first saw it as a kid it blew my mind.
it was repeated in an episode of enterprise, where two factions from the same planet fought over how many days it took for their god (or was it gods) to create the universe.
The Burn explanation really does frost my cookies. I was really hoping it would be Omega related something along the lines of it powering the time portals and going boom.
The Burn breaks the key edict of mystery stories: the audience must be able to figure out the mystery based on the clues provided. This also makes the show more re-watchable (or re-readable in the case of a book) because the audience will go back and try and find the clues for themselves. The Burn has NO clues! Zero. Zip! There was literally no way for anyone to have guessed what happened! I wanted to send this to the writers and make them pledge to follow it forever more:
"Do you promise that your detectives shall well and truly detect the crimes presented to them using those wits which it may please you to bestow upon them and not placing reliance on nor making use of Divine Revelation, Feminine Intuition, Mumbo Jumbo, Jiggery-Pokery, Coincidence, or Act of God?" - G. K. Chesterton's oath for membership for the British Detection Club (a sort of writing club for British mystery writers)
I was burned by The Burn and it really turned me off to the show.
there had been clues, but sadly no one really understood them.
The Burn was worse than a bad twist; even if they'd sprinkled some clues about, DILITHIUM DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT
Discovery is such an uneven show.
@@Farzlepot Sorry, but we do not know how Dilithium worrks.
And it is not a bad twist, because the most anticipated solutions all would have been lame, because every one would have expected such. It was very unexpected and that made it a good twist, even if the solution itself was not the best. But there had been hints, which made clear that the most common theories about the Burn are wrong. And as I said, no one really noticed them.
@@Pandapeep I agree.
Siddig was also not informed about Bashirs genetic engineering backstory until the last minute. Makes me wonder whether the writers ever told him anything that could be ya know... relevant to his character.
Well, considering they made that up for the episode...
I think it's more that they didn't know about the switch or the enhancement until they approved the respective stories. They couldn't tell him because it wasn't planned.
@@QBCPerdition those kinds of major character reveals really should be sketched out far in advance. If not from the beginning of the show than at least from the beginning of the season so the writers, directors, and actors can lay the ground work so that when you look back all the dots connect. The whole channeling replacement thing makes so much less sense when you rewatch episodes. Granted people at the time didn’t have the previous episodes *right* at their finger tips but even though I was young I remember dissecting episodes on message boards and what time, people noticed the inconsistencies.
In that case it's because the writers themselves hadn't come up with it until the very episode in which it was revealed. It's really a retcon, not a twist.
Today that would be the case but at the time most shows, including Star Trek, were very episodic. Designed so that each episode could be watched by itself even for a new viewer. Writers didn’t plan out character arcs like we’re used to now. DS9 took what were at the time huge risks when it started to become more serialized in the later seasons.
Whenever I see clips of the original series among all this new stuff I'm just in awe of how incredible the original Star Trek was, it was just dripping with class, style, and characters that perfectly complimented each other.
I'm quite frankly shocked... that neither of the big twists involving Riker are here.
The discovery of a second Riker due to warp jank on TNG was enough of a shock although it came near the start of the episode. But then later when it seems like Will is having a crossover episode with DS9 only for it to turn out to be Thomas instead, who's joined the Maquis and betrays the DS9 crew? Damn, that was a hell of a twist
One thing they missed in Ship in a Bottle was Picard entered the holodeck in a different uniform then the one he left in. Meaning he would have had a holographic uniform. So, after leaving the the holodeck, his uniform should disappeared leading to an awkward moment.
You've forgotten that most things that aren't living on a holodeck are tangible because the holodeck combines transporter and replicator technology with holographic and force field technology.
@@jwb52z9 If so, when Picard demonstrates to Moriarty by throwing a book out of the holodeck, it should hit the wall on the other side of the corridor and not evaporate. That would have been the first notion they were stuck in the holodeck, it was not behaving as it should.
I would have included the slowest reveal in DS9: Blood tests were a deliberate Red-Herring by the Changelings and it took a season and a half to reveal the full extent of that deception. Martok introduces blood tests at the beginning of season 4, it's a huge plot point in Paradise Lost and Homefront in the middle of season 4. Martok is revealed to be a changeling in the first episode of Season 5. And when we finally meet the real Martok in the middle of Season 5, at the same time we find out Bashir has been replaced, we also find out that Martok had no idea about the Federation/Klingon conflict in the entirety of Season 4. The result is two years of the Klingons and Federation using a bogus method of attempting to find Changelings in their midst and all the destruction and infiltration they likely accomplished because of it.
U absolutely right on that man those revelations in season 5 made me look at numerous points of 4&5 differently when i rewatched the first time and decades later i still find new things when rewatching...that really is amazing writing
@@antoniokastrocarlisledemel6617 Planned or not (I have no idea) it added so many layers to the Klingon War, the Dominion Cold War, and finally the Dominion War itself.
you forget Joseph Sisko out right told his son the flaw in the blood test during season 4 ep 11. Joseph argues that if the Changelings are all that clever, they'll find a way around the blood screening tests telling Ben there's not a test that exists that someone smart enough can't get around. it is part of why Martok and Bashir were still alive, to be blood bags to get past the tests
@@TheEarthDragoon That's why I pointed out that it was a major plot point in Homefront and Paradise lost. But apparently the current writers didn't understand that cutting the hand is a stupid way of sussing out changelings because 30 years later Starfleet is still using it!
Maybe Spock was so shocked in Balance of Terror because the Romulan commander bore a striking resemblance to his father?
The Burn was utterly ridiculous and probably one of the worst plot devices of Discovery. You really just want Burnham to wake up and come to the conclusion it was only a dream.
And find JR Ewing being alive and well on some Texas like planet.
Or justpull a "These are the voyages" and end it all with Tom Paris the Holonovel Writer stating "Computer, end program and delete 'Discovery' & its' associated files"... :P
The cause of the Burn was basically Star Trek’s version of mutants!
A kid gains Phoenix like powers from a planet’s radiation and release a telekinetic dilithium disrupting blast powerful enough to spread across the entire galaxy!
@@demariushenderson1802 You would think that at this point alternatives would be available. The idea that one of the most scientifically focused civilizations couldn't work something out is ridiculous.
It's actually Dr. Mora, not Dr. Pol, as Bajorans give their last name first.
To be honest I thought she said Dr Paul..odd name for a Bajoran 😂
@@AAS-hx5xs lol Me too. I was thinking maybe the actor's name was Paul, until I realized it was an "Ensign Laren" thing.
Ship in a Bottle is such a great episode. It's so creative and I didn't see it coming the first time I watched it. I love the set-up at the beginning of people catching things with the incorrect hand, etc.
Yeah, I guess you could say that Spock was equally baffled.
His eyebrow lift seemed to say, "DAD?"
Best to you-
I think everyone who wasn't born this century picked up on discovery talking crap with, well, everything, from "the burn" to the broken klingon things, all the way to the tardis-style interior of a ship allegedly smaller than the Constitution class, they pretty much seemed to make up stuff as they went, ignoring established canon, lore and history...
Spoilers for _Picard_ Season 3 episode 1-2
Speaking of TARDIS interiors, the Titan A under Shaw is absurd. We see a small shuttle fly pretty close to it with Riker and Picard in the first episode (22:40-22:50), and there would have to be some pretty significant visual distortion of the sizes given that we see it fly in a curved path alongside the ship. In the second episode a different ship thrown at Titan A that skates across the top of the saucer causes damage on deck 11 (23:18-24:02) of a 12-deck ship. We get a shot from the rear before they say the deck number, and there's no apparent damage to the secondary hull, either.
LOL! The only Star Trek's NOT spoilered was Prodigy, TAS (The Animated Series), and the movies (original and reboot)!
Well done
That season 6 episode "In the Pale Moonlight" where it's just Sisko narrating the story of how he betrayed everything Starfleet stands for in order to drag the Romulans into the Dominion war is a good "twist I never saw coming." The twist is that there was no twist. The whole episode I kept waiting for the moment where Sisko somehow manages to clean everything up and do it Picard style. But he didn't. He just doubled down, took the hit to his morals on the chin, and schemed his way forward. But I suppose I should've seen it coming all the way back in season 1 when Sisko punched Q and his explanation was "I'm not Picard..."
ooooooh - love that you released this just before the episode where Sisko comes back!
here is an idea! use the chapters to 1 seperate the points, and 2, give the series they are in as spoiler. that way you can watch the (in my case) DS9,TNG, Voyager ones with ease, while skipping the ones Im still to see
Strange New Worlds. Never expected one of the very best seasons of all of Trek in the very first season of this spectacular show.
The Bashir one honestly blew my mind. It was incredible.
You'd think I wouldn't have forgotten about that, even after several years, lol. He was probably still called Siddig El Fadil when the changeling took his place!
Ok the "Borg Pacification" was called out episode 1 ... Numerous people came out and said who it was the moment they saw the new Borg. As for the Kelpian "Burn" cause .. worst reveal they could possibly come up with
There‘s another Bashir twist that supersedes the changeling twist in Season 5, namely the reveal that Bashir has been genetically modified in his childhood. This fundamentally changed his entire personality with a similar prep time to Alexander Siddig as with the other twist moment.
From DS9... Gul Dukat appears to be off on his own attacking the Dominion fleet in his Klingon ship... BUT NO! He JOINS the fleet on their way to Cardassia where he becomes head of the government there!
The Moriarty episode prepared me for Inception. Thanks, TNG :)
Romulans were also featured in season 1 Eye of the Needle with the nanowormhole. I loved that episode. The end was so bittersweet, though.
What about the BIGGEST Star Trek twist of all time that definitely nobody at all saw coming. That Benedict Cumberbatch was actually playing Kahn!! Wow what a twist!
Odo isn't a founder, he's a changeling. The changelings are called founders in regards to the Dominion - which they founded.
The Holographic Recursion, with professor Moriarty, was a good episode.
Great topic. Well done.
The whole thing where you leave the holodeck, but don't really leave the holodeck, was done in a book first. The episode seemingly borrowed the idea from that.
I've really got to look up the episodes with Moriarty, I became such a fan of Daniel Davis with The Nanny in reruns. I did like his Moriarty character, it'd be an interesting comparison. Also with twists, I liked Will Riker's accidental twin Thomas surprisingly becoming a member of the Maquis.
Of course Spock thought Vulcans and Romulans were related. His father was in command of the Romulan vessel!
I have to say Sela was a very good twist in the nineties!!!
I feel bad about #5, because in isolation it's actually a pretty touching story. Unfortunately they made it the punchline to a massive season-long mystery. It's no wonder so many folks were let down considering the sheer weight of everything leading up to it. It would have made for a wonderful one or two-part episode in a more episodic series like SNW. Make the stakes lower, like restrict it to a populated star system or something.
As for #6, does it _really_ matter? Season 2 of _Picard_, (if not Season 1, as well) should be stricken from canon. Very little else in the season makes any sense, either; no use bending over backwards trying to make it fit in. Might as well pretend it never happened. It sure hasn't influenced Season 3 very much.
I'm really glad that I thought the Burn was a stupid plot point from the beginning because the episode itself was probably the strongest story of the season, arguably the whole series. It was a rare and welcome instance of DSC actually feeling like classic Trek, and it being meant as the payoff to the big season-long mystery box did it such a disservice.
Here's a twist I never saw coming. Janeway and Paris having salamander babies together.
These side effects of Borg-ness... damn, I could live with most of it, but "addiction to Flash games"? That's where I draw the line xD
DS9’s “The Sound of Her Voice”. We don’t realize until the very end that the focus character of the episode was more or less dead the whole time.
Moriotti leaving the holodeck was a good episode but I was able to deduce the ruse during the commercial break.I guess that was my "Sherlock" moment !Lol
You could say you found it to be...elementary.
@@Anduril74871 for sure!I also was inspired to write a story going back to "The Cage"that had the mind controlling TALOSIANS creating a grand illusion of all TREK episodes being nothing more than fantasy created for some unknown reason.There are so many scripts that could be invented it boggles the mind but the last episode and reveal in whatever incarnation of TREK it be would be ,would surely be a twist few would had anticipated!Lol
I’m confused no one in the federation has seen images of romulans from enterprise/discovery era
The defiant was no surprise back then it was announced way b4 the season premiere.
1:54
Nooo... someone, not saying who because I don't know, someone forgot the Bajoran naming orientation. Family name first, person's name second. Example use with Ro Laren, when everyone would say Ensign Laren, she would correct them with Ro, Ensign Ro, not Laren, as that is her (in our conventions) first name. So, with Dr. Mora Pol, it's Dr. Mora, proper use that was constantly used in DS9 before, during and after his appearances.
AGAIN, not saying that someone should be blamed, just that someone should remember this when saying a Bajoran's name or should have remembered this.
EDIT: I brought this up, because when I was only listening to this video and I heard "Dr. Pol" I was very confused by who that is, until I looked up who had the name Pol and saw that the video meant Dr. Mora.
That Dr. Bashir twist was crazy when it aired. It blew the minds of everyone in the online Trek community (which was small and fledgling back in the 90s) We weren’t used to storytelling like that at all.
I think Bashir being an augment was a pretty big twist, I was honestly expecting that one to be #1.
Yeah, that was a major reveal that fundamentally changed the character (for the audience) going forward and added a new dimension to him looking at his past experiences.
But what about the 1st JJ Abrams star trek movie, never thought that Vulcan blowing up was gonna be permanent
Please do "another ten twists" cos there are so many other great ones too
I personally didn't like the Borg getting an origin story and becoming allies. The Borg could be really terrifying and nobody knew where they came from or what they truly wanted other than assimilation. It was a true piece of Lovecraftian cosmic horror.
I liked their origin story in the books better. Way more sense and we didn’t get a weird ally thing happening.
What origin story?
Also, true Lovecraftian cosmic horror can't be beaten with quantum torpedoes. Lovecraftian horror seeps into the mind slowly with no one realizing until it's far too late.
The Borg from S2 of Picard are a different splinter cell from the Queen's Borg.
Picard S2 was not a Borg origin story though. The Borg still pre-date that.
"Transformed entire lore" - shot of Brent Spiner - I see what you did there...🤣
Why join the Borg?
Queen: We have a supreme array of technological and biological advantages You can choose to have any augments you want. Better vision. Stronger muscles. An array of improvments on any of your primitive functions! Why not be Borg?
Me: Hmm... Do you have jetp-
Queen: YES WE HAVE JETPACK LEGS!
I really believe Sisko was Section 31. He did so much crazy stuff that only Section 31 could protect him.
I never got the idea of the friendly Borg who join star fleet. Where were they the entire time the Borg were attacking Star fleet? Off hiding somewhere?
two that hit me hard 1st viewing: Kirk letting Elizabeth Keeler die, and Hugh Culber surviving in the network. I agree with Sue that Julian being an augment was a more profound reveal than the replacement arc.
I loved Eddington ..i wish he was in it more
The Borg terms and conditions 🤣
sisko with that hat though... 🤣
Wait...you were all surprised by Eddington? I had that guy down in his first appearance.
the disclaimer for number 6... 😂🖖
The circumstances of The Burn were a REVEAL, not a twist. There IS a difference.
A lot of very good twists.
You're right. I never saw the guy from Krull going bald and ending up as bad guy in Trek!
I hoped will be seeing the Borg again in Discovery season 5.
Lower Decks has been such an amazing show. I am sad that season 5 will be its final season. The fact we have Strange New Worlds AND Lower Decks back to back has been beyond amazing, and the SNW/LD crossover was freaking glorious.
While I didn't know exactly what they had in store for the Eddington character, I suspected it was something pretty big, because when Ken Marshall (Krull) showed up as a cast member, I knew he wasn't going to be playing a minor character that was only going to appear in the background. Go Lucky Loony!
Season 3 of PICARD has to be a "backdoor pilot" like season 2 of DISCOVERY was for STRANGE NEW WORLDS... I hope that the series centers around the ongoing mission of the TITAN-A with CAPTAIN SEVEN (unless Captain Shaw survives, definitely enjoy the dynamic of him with Commander "Hanson") and ANSWER the Borg question from season 3 of Picard!
I actually think it is a Section 31 backdoor pilot, with Worf, Raffi, Seven, and possibly others being part of that story in the future.
I would have thought next gen the best of both worlds would be on there, nobody imagined Picard would be assimilated and used his knowledge to destroy 39 ships, plus also could Riker kill his captain and friend
Ugh! I knew something off when I first saw Michael Eddington. But it took me longer to realize the actor playing him was also Colwyn from the movie Krull.
The Enterprise episode "Doctors Orders". I never expected that twist. Although it felt like a retelling of the Voyager episode "One". However, with that one the crew were in stasis for a month with Seven of Nine and the Doctor maintaining systems. Whereas here there are only 4 days to get through the region of changing space and thinking that from the beginning that Phlox and T'Pol are the only ones awake due to the effects of the region they are in being benign to Phlox and T'Pol and one of them only thinks the other one is awake when that fact is never mentioned until near the end of the episode. I thought a trope of Star Trek is to never retell a story they did in the past unless it was a continuation of that story. Even Alex Kurtzman has said multiple times that he doesn't want to retell stories they have done previously. So, I do not know why they did that here. The twist was surprising, and I never expected it, but it was a retell of Voyager's "One".
_Enterprise's_ "Oasis" Is pretty similar to _DS9's_ "Shadowplay."
"I was sitting with Scott Bakula at lunch about two or three days into shooting the episode. He said, “I like this script. I think this is a good one.” I said, “Yeah, we did this one in season three.” And he looked at me and said, “What?” I said, “It was the same sort of story.” "
_-- Rene Auberjonois, 2011_
The Voyager episode on holodeck program about the Maquis rebellion. When Commander Tuvok revealed he was the writer of he program also was a "twist" no one expected after Janeway requests to find out who designed the program.,
Thanks. 🖖🏻
I'd say the real twist of The Search episode 1 was Dax's hair
Oh goody another take on the jirati Borg that does not remember the cooperative
Ship in a bottle is an acid trip.
What I never saw coming is Moriarty appearing in a Picard S3 promotional trailer. Considering the first three episodes, I'm very intrigued of how he'll be involved. If at all...
How about the creation of tribbles?
8:50 my favourite theory for the burn was an intergalactic exploration ship was damaged and the strange music was their distress call. Possibly the caretakers people (or another from the same galaxy). Their attempt to return home quickly was what caused the burn.
The actual cause? A Kelpian child crying because his mommy passing? The writers should be publicly flogged for that terribly weak and unbelievable twist.
Q said how it would end with the Borg in the first episode he introduced them.
As for the new Borg mantra, on the Queen's trip back home she picked up Bernie Sanders as the new Borg Spokesman. We are the Borg assimilation is optional. as he does his little hand gesture.
Unfortunately the Seska Retaliation aka Worst Case Scenario was the first episode of Voyager I ever saw. And I started watching Ds9 in season six. So Eddington, Odo's origins and what Seska was doing still a Bajoran were *completely* lost on me. But when I saw the Ds9 episodes later I was still able to cheer them on and say 'well done writers!'
Actually, as we just learned recently, Captain Pike knew what Romulans look like and that they were related to Vulcan's.
Is it just me or are all the points written in the style of big bang theory episode titles?
Based on the Picard Season 3 trailer, I think Moriarty returns
I miss Enterprise
I definitely agree, Gregory. I was a late watcher, partly because I couldn't get it at first and had first thought it was part of "DS9" (and didn't like it), but gave it a chance after "Broken Bow" and loved it better than "DS9"!
@Virginia Connor DS9 is still my favorite but every golden age Trek has the first 2 season blues. Some great stuff but overall finding themselves. We are lucky enough to consider it now yet I still miss ENT
People crap on it all the time, but it's my favorite to re-watch. All the way through episode 21 of season 4. You know, the last episode. Because there is no episode 22.
I started Discovery knowing Lorca was a mirror universe imposter. Knowing this made his character infinitely more enjoyable. This might be one twist that could work better if the audience knew it in advance.
Still, it was a hell of a reveal when the prime universe crew figured it out. :D
The only drag about Lorca's twist is that Jason Isaacs' time on Star Trek was limited. That guy is phenomenal!
@@johnchedsey1306 yes, I agree, fantastic actor! I wish we could have seen him as prime universe Lorca, would have been interesting.
Not only did I not see Eddington's true agenda coming.......I didn't even realise he was played by that Kenneth Marshall. He appeared so different from the early 1980's 'Marco Polo' and 'Krull'. Fine actor and he did the part justice.
Am i the only one that thinks the writer of this video really liked Big Bang Theory?
Each entry title sounds like an episode name of BBT
I never trusted Eddington from the first few episodes he was on. I knew he was up to something.
I felt like Garak when he read "The Republic".
Wrong by the first entry. A new record. Afunny story. I was in middle school when DS9 first started. I remember back in season one telling a friend that I thought it was fairly obvious that they can't find much about Odo's species was because it was from the Gamma Quadrant. Almost immediately as the word The Dominion name was brought up in season two, I said: I bet you five bucks they turned out to be Odo's people.
We are closed on Tuesday.
It was an incredible moment of trek, but I've always had a problem with everyone's shock at seeing how similar Romulans look to Vulcans, when literally every other time they meet a new species they always look exactly like humans and no one bats an eye about it.
That last one begs the question: how many holodecks within a holodeck can you create?
Lazarus was probably the strongest link with regards to the burn.
Not to relitigate this, but the Burn was so dumb because there are a number of FTL propulsion methods in Star Trek that do not use dilithium. To assume that the burn stopped all species in the alpha and beta quadrants from using warp and that none of them further developed a non-dilithium method of FTL is just ludicrous.
@@QBCPerdition Dilithium is just the control method for M/AM reactions. It regulates and controls the reaction within the reaction chamber as to not destroy the ship itself via contact with the reaction chamber walls. There's no reason they couldn't find a way to do the same via magnetic fields (which they use to keep the antimatter away from the matter in the containment vessels all the way to the reaction chamber, anyways).
And there have been more than one example over the many years of Trek writing where the warp drive was used without a M/AM reaction chamber, to begin with. The Romulans using quantum singularity cores instead, for example.
Every way you look at it, the Burn was the dumbest thing ever seen in Trek. And there are a lot of things to choose from for that award.
@compmanio36 The reason for dilithium in Star Trek is inconsistent. I understand it the same way you do, that it regulates the energy, but is not, inherently, necessary. Of course, ST IV implies that it is necessary, at least in a Bird of Prey in order to do a slingshot time travel maneuver. So I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that it is necessary for A/AM reactions.
But as you point out, the Romulan singularity drive shouldn't need it. Though let's be even more generous and say, maybe the Romulans use it, too to regulate their energy.
There are FTL transportation methods the specifically do not use dilithium. Transtators, Borg transwarp, Bajoran Lightsail, and those are just off the top of my head. To expect us to believe no one could come up with an FTL solution that didn't involve dilithium is insane.
@@QBCPerdition Yeah, I'm pretty sure Klingons still use a warp core as Starfleet does, so I guess they'd still need dilithium but yes, there are so many other methods of generating energy besides a M/AM reaction. These people don't understand the world of Trek and they don't seem to care.
I'm glad you didn't include the Tyler-Voq twist because lmao was that one ever obvious from the jump. And to think that they created a fictional castmember with a fraudulent imdb page and buried all the Klingon actors in 20 pounds of makeup prosthetics just for that, too.
I hate to be a nerdy Trekkie but...***who*** did you say was Odo's handlerer? Dr What? I definitely didnt hear Mora
0:26 is there a Robocop in the Star Trek series?
"What would the recruitment even be like?" Uh, literally like any religion in existence. They offer stability, safety, fellowship, certainty of purpose, and a sense of superiority (not that that's an important thing to religions now of course hashtagsarcasm).. The only thing missing is the promise of a reward in the afterlife, but then again, do borg die of old age? Considering Jeratti is now 400 years old, give or take, it doesn't seem like it.
And they actually do offer those things, no scamming involved. You’re dying of a disease? We can heal you. You are lonely? You won’t be anymore. You have no purpose in life? We’ll give you one. You lost your home and livelihood due to climate change (or any other space phenomena)? We’ll give you a place to live. You want more knowledge? You’ll get all of the knowledge of billions of people from across time and space. You are afraid of death? You will live forever in the Collective memory.
How about Harry Kim never getting a promotion. All of us expected him to get a promotion eventually. The time and time again he was denied. That was a Twist none of us saw coming. Especially Harry
I’m don’t like hate comments, but seriously, if those actors were confused by the 2nd Moriarty script, that’s embarrassing
Am I the only one who enjoyed the Burn's twist? Don't get me wrong, I think the entire idea of the Burn was kind of dumb but the actual reason they gave for it didn't bother me. It was unique! It was also extremely convenient because it's at an entire planet filled with Dilithium, perfectly solving the entire issue the Burn caused, but still. An emotional child with a connection to the mineral I thought was much better than some natural disaster or big evil villain explanation would have been.
I agree, but sometimes no explanation would have been better.