The veils in the sky are reminiscent of the veils surrounding the bed in Marika's room in Leyndell. But it's not such an incredibly relevant detail, because I think it's simply the physical manifestation of the fact that the Land of Shadows has been "veiled"....hidden....isolated from the rest of the Lands Between.
@@MikeTheD in a way, that is really good commercial for FromSoft though. They add a lot of stuff in a short vid, and many people talk about it, spreading info to more people
every single sarcastic comment you can possibly make about a business 2020 onwards is more likey true than not. We have left the art age, and entered the content age.
Something that stood out to me 8:51 the woman in the painting is clearly pregnant, with her hand over belly, like a pregnant mother would in other ancient and historical pieces of art. The Shadow Land, “where the Goddess, Marika, first step foot.” I wonder, could that imply that the Shadow Land is where Queen Marika was born? Perhaps the old man and the pregnant woman in the painting are Marika’s mother and father. When the Elden Ring needed a vessel, an Empyrean, perhaps in exchange for power, these Numen’s offered their child Marika, as the first Empyrean of the Greater Will.
I think a core aspect of the story is pregnancy, lineage, and fertility. Miyazaki and Martin tell the stories of Fertility in a serious manner. People assume marika has so many children and husbands because she’s some arrogant wh*re... but Miyazaki and Martin never wrote their stories this way. I think a hidden aspect to the story - that answers soo many questions - is about pregnancy... whatever Marika’s story is, we’ll learn about why marika couldn’t be comfortable with her births. CentredTarnished posits that the Lands Between map is shaped like a foetus, and the Land of Shadow (middle of the map) is located where umbilical cord should be. The folk in the painting could be Marikas parents, Marika herself... but one things for sure, they are DEFINITELY related to marika in some way, given the significance of her infertility story. (I also believe Marika is the Gloam Queen, but she removed that part of herself and threw it into the Shadow Realm once she became a god. The Gloam Queen represents everything Marika does, but instead she tries to hide that part of herself from the world. The Shadow Realm is literally a place of Shadow - a place of which is supposed to be hidden from the denizens of the current order and world)
If Empyreans all have a Shadow that takes the form of a wolf (Marika/Maliketh, Ranni/Blaidd), I find it interesting that the default Tarnished is always wearing the Raging Wolf Armor. The armor description states, "Armor worn by Vargram the Bloody Wolf, one of the first Tarnished to visit the Roundtable Hold. According to the old legends, wolves are the shadows of the Empyrean. Vargram aspired to such a state himself." So, if one can acquire the "state" of becoming a Shadow, and our default Tarnished is seen wearing this "wolf armor," perhaps WE are a Shadow... to Miquella? After all, he gives us the gifts of Torrent and the Spirit-Calling Bell, and he's awaiting his "promised Lord" (promised Elden Lord, maybe?) I think Miquella has been essentially "training" us to become his Shadow this entire time, and that when we get to the DLC he will reveal what our purpose in serving him is.
that would be cool as hell I also thought about the default Tarnished point for a long time like, it's the main Armor Set in the game and always shows up in trailers, it makes sense
Right, Fromsoft initial reveal trailers typically don't spoil the final boss of the DLC at all, they could break the trend but with Miyazaki in charge I would think not spoiling the finale so early on is an intentional choice he wouldn't go back on.
@mikeklim9623they said they don’t plan on doing another dlc currently. I think they might do more with the game but this will probably be it for the full on expansions
Messmer seems to me like he upgraded into every possible faction. His one eye looks like dragon magic, the other eye like the gloomeyed mother and the godskins, his fire from the giants, the snakes whatever rykard is, but still is kinda under marika and the golden order. Dude is just a player that has maxed out every skill 😂😂
If you watch Hawkshaws video on serpent lore you’ll understand that basically all of those are connected. The dragons, the godskins, and the god-devouring serpent are all interconnected with snake/caduceus imagery, which is literally what Messmer is decorated with.
I love how people are making 40 minute to an hour long videos from just a 4 minute trailer. Really shows just how much care and dedication fromsoft puts in their games
The fact that the Lion Boss is three humanoid figures inside basically a costume like a chinese dragon is SO COOL! This is what From Software does better than anyone else! So creative and so cool!
Bro the whole "Miquella being Torrent's former owner, guiding Ranni to you, basically orchestrating your whole journey" -thing is fucking mindblowing. It makes everything make sense and that's so dope. Well done again, such great and well researched content.
@@gunny7769It isn't anything special, but it it sick simply because of the way you find out the story and cuz it isn't just that, that is just one more thing about the insane story. It took legit years for us to get that info. It makes it feel less random and kinda hype. Also why are you not just saying that you disagree, why pretend that you are some smart ass xD
@@jankopzmavc6834 Why are you acting like this is a fact? "that is just one more thing about the insane story " It may not be part of any story at all! "It took legit years for us to get that info." What info? Miquella being Torrent's previous master is a THEORY.
Fromsoft announces->Vaatividya explains what i saw->Fromsoft releases-> Vaati then explains what I played and then the beautiful cycle continues. I go in blind for my first playthrough of fromsoft games and the recap via vaati after is one of the best parts.
If you live a "normal" life (work, family, etc) you'll have very little amount of time to put the pieces together of any From Software games on your own... So yeah thank you Vaati.
I wouldn’t say Miquella was jealous. Rather, he saw Godwyn upholding the rule of the Erdtree. We know Miquella is against the Erdtree because of how it cast out all that were different. Miquella went so far as to make a tree of his own that would replace the Erdtree/golden order. Godwyn dying sounds like it is necessary to bring about Miquella’s new age.
Yeah I barely get enough time to play in general lol. A dungeon or area can take like half an hour to an hour, and there's hundreds. Like sometime I'll see something cool like and think "I wonder what's up with these zamor guys". And thankfully Vaati does the reading, theorising (and farming for the items that even HAS the descriptions) for me. There's not always an objective truth in souls but I've never disliked vaatis subjective ones.
Fia's storyline was so interesting and cool. I made sure to have her ending as my first playthrough and I want her - or lore surrounding her culture - back so badly in this DLC!
Her land could possibly be where Ravenmount is located, the guys who own the raptors set and claws, death blight has become a part of whatever the death birds were doing long ago it seems, the Death Ritual Spear also seems like a weapon of Ravenmount since it adds up with what little lore they have
I only just realised that the three wolf ashes from miquella are the same ones he’s embraced by in all those statues. Gonna have to level them up to +10 now
@@shukohs the three spirit ashes that ranni gives us are actually from miquella. She says “torrents old master would have wanted you to have them” torrents old master is miquella
"Mother, would thou truly lordship sanction in one so bereft of light?" I interpreted Messmer's line as taunting towards Marika. As in "oh really, you will recognize this lowly tarnished a claim to lordship whilst condemning your own blood to banishment?" Especially since his imagery is so drenched in what Marika's order would see as blasphemous, and thus "bereft of light".
true he could very well have rebelled against her hence his banishment. still, if the second quote "all those stripped of grace shall meet death" is messmer's quote then it makes him sound faithful to marika, which makes their relationship a mess 😵💫
If you run it through a Shakespearean translator, it come out as "Mother, do you really think it's right to give power to someone who is so ignorant?" Sounds a lot cooler in its original form.
@@Reemon27Actually, it also validates OP's statement, it makes Messmer sound resentful towards the tarnished for being granted the possibility of lordship without the light of gold, unlike him which was banished even though he was her son.
@@Reemon27 I wonder what came first, was he banished because he indulged in what the Golden Order finds blasphemous, or did he begin to blaspheme against the Golden Order because he was banished
The name ‘The Impaler’ could be a reference to Count Vlad Dracula, who was the inspiration for Dracula the vampire. Count Vlad Dracula was a member of the Chivalric Order, the Order of the Dragon. And the name Dracula literally translates to ‘son of dragons’. This reference seems to further connect Messmer to Dragons while building onto the theme of blood which also runs through the trailer.
What if he’s the guy who started dragon communion? Like there’s two whole churches dedicated to the practice with a special made alter, we don’t get much on the info besides the Drake Knights, so maybe Mesmer can turn into a whole dragon
@@Ouroboros542 this would also explain the Troll Warrior Theodorix being a great magma wyrm in the mountaintops of the giants he was probably a slave turned into that to fight the giants, the war against the giants might’ve actually been a 3-way war Golden Order vs The Giants vs The Dragons since we know the The Giants took the mountaintops from the dragons.
Also to add to my last comment, when I said “the dragons” im referring to the Ice Dragons which I believe are separate from the ancient dragons and did there own thing
Miquella being the players secret guide throughout the entire journey makes so much sense now with the quote of him "awaiting his promised elden lord".
The only confusing thing in the lore is there’s no mention of a new erdtree being made in Leyndell after abandoning the shadowland one, and from what i understand there can only be one guiding erdtree which grants an Elden ring. so if two erdtrees cant exist at once, but theres no mention of a new erdtree being made, then it makes me think this is some kind of alternate dimension but it was confirmed this takes place in the same world. It’s possible it just wasnt mentioned in the lore that an erdtree was created in leyndell but i think thatd be a pretty memorable thing Or everyone that knew about the shadowland tree was locked up when the shadowlands was separated but this happened during the age of the erdtree, after radagon left rennala for marika. The influence of the golden order was way beyond the shadowlands at this point, so the rest of the lands between mustve known about it
I do like that they mentioned that Miquella had a chosen lord, and we received gifts from Miquella, those being Torrent from Melina and the wolves from Ranni. It’s gearing up that Miquella chose our character to become Elden Lord
100% caught that one time while I was playing a new game fresh. It was way too convenient that some unnamed person was gifting us these things for no reason. Like why were WE this special Tarnished to get these gifts but NONE other did? Miquella CHOSE us to be. Possibly also why Vyke would’ve never became Elden Lord. He could get close, but Miquella would make it impossible for him. Miquella definitely set us up to be Elden lord (I guess it’s going off the default ending here) but for what reason I guess we’ll find out. Either A. He wants to be our consort/make us his consort or B. Wants to beat us to become the true Elden lord in place of his mother
@Yklowz180 Eh, that'd be really weird for a game company to make the demigod who's known for, amongst other things, primarily being stuck as a child, to be our consort
Messmer gives me big Lucifer Morningstar vibes. His whole aesthetic, ties to flame, the serpents (like the serpent in Garden of Eden), the fact that he's in the Lands of Shadow which could be a sort of afterlife... etc
Lucifer is just the Latin for morning star, transliterated instead of translated. Morning star or Lucifer is never used to refer to satan or the devil. I don't know if you care, but I feel people should know.
@@idkyet3573genuinely, why do you say it? Edith Piaf (edit 001) : got multiple notification about that one comment being liked, is there any controversy i missed by only casually enjoying stufff online?
Do you really think this is not transformative content@@idkyet3573 ? That's akin to saying historians have an easy job because they steal their content.
One thing I noted is that the pink butterflies exist in at least one place in the base game. In the Haligtree around the rot swamp with the tree spirit, surrounded by pink lilies that I also think are unique to that area.
Messmer really gives my the vibes of the Evil King Zahhāk from Persian mythology. He was a well intentioned boy who wanted to be king who was tricked by the god of evil into killing his father, and then got cursed with two snakes growing out of his shoulders that hungered for human flesh (I think brains or hearts specifically but I can't remember).
It's really cool how you can literally see the curtains in the sky next to the burnt erd tree. Like it was not just shadowed but actually fully hidden away by the light of the tree. It might be the same size as limgrave as it kinda overlaps limgrave
I'm more hyped for this video and your lore breakdowns than the DLC itself. It's as if playing the game is one half of the experience and then watching reliable content creators if the other half. To see what you've missed and if the head canon is truly aligned. Appreciate the work that goes into these.
I was messing around starting a new game after watching this and defeated the scion and i seem to noticed something. After beating the scion after you leave the boss room you get your first crafting material which strangely is a Nascent butterfly, and just before you die at the edge of the cliff is also some Nascent butterflys as if they were leading you to your death so you can proceed. Makes it seem maybe miquella was watching us the whole time during our journey from the start.
@VaatiVidya : the stripping of Grace might also tie in with the new attack power mechanism brought in. Grace = runes we use to level up. To enter the DLC and follow Miquella, we have to renounce our grace and therefore our rune level. Hence the new attack power mechanism to fit with lore and tie gameplay and lore together
Re. The Tarnished's relation to the Land of Shadow, I think it's pretty believable that the Land of Shadow is a dumping ground for the spirits of failed Tarnished. Due to Marika removing the Rune of Death, spirits stick around after death and have to go _somewhere,_ such as Spirit Ash. In most Lands Between residents' case, the grace of gold has them steadily migrate to the Erdtree to be -probably consumed- reincarnated. Tarnished's spirits go nowhere and just reside in their bodies til Marika's grace rouses them back up. The Land of Shadow provides a good explanation for the final point of that journey, these souls can eventually slip past any chance of grace saving them and get obliterated by Messmer. I don't think this will be the case as Fromsoft have almost never committed to these death revival ideas this hard (eg. you're pretty much the only undead in dark souls who actually revives), but I would _love it_ if Tarnished NPCs actually showed up in the Land of Shadow if they die in the basegame, even if just as easter egg corpses most of the time
Awesome never actually stopped thinking about the spirit's ashes in that way. On my end I was thinking that Miquella needed to go to that land to use a new tree that it's growing according to the screenshots of the DLC and use maybe the power of the eclipse aka the star of the souless demigods, hence why we need to defeat Radahn to access the DLC as well and the imagery of a candle tree which is the one Miquella use to guide spirits to the catacombs to revive the souless demigods aka Godwing trough that we will fulfill one of Miquellas objectives which is to let Godwing finally rest properly without being cursed.
Elden Rings two trailers and now this trailer have to be some of my favorite trailers ever! Every aspect of them is just so brilliantly put together, from the writing to the shot selecting, to enemies on display, and of course the incredible music to bring it all together. Man, i adore this game!
*Deus Ex: Human Revolution* is still the best gaming trailer ever. *Callisto Protocol* is up there too (though the game isn't nearly as good as the trailer, it's still a half decent game). *AVP 2010* had a great trailer also, as well as *Gears Of War's "Madworld"* trailer.
@StudioMod Deux Ex: Human Revolution trailer was definitely one of the greats! Also God of War 2 launch trailer and God of War 3 reveal trailer were amazing. I still watch all of these from time to time.
23:54 - I think Marika being impaled had to do with her punishment for breaking the Elden Ring. One of the Elden Beast's grab attacks was called something like "Divine Punishment." The attack would hang the tarnished on a ring (just like Marika at the boss fight) and then be impaled by a punch of light particles similar to what is piercing Marika's torso.
While that attack explains Marika's crucifixion, the spear impaling her womb appears to be made from Destined Death. None of the Elden Beast's attacks use DD, which is what makes her impalement so mysterious.
The capital and the little sliver of the Erd tree we actually can see are pretty clearly burnt and all the ash around the capital more than proves that the Erd tree must have been set on fire at some point. I always assumed that Melina was somehow the one who did it because of being the kindling maiden with very little other information on her, but with the combination of Messmer's affinity for fire and his nickname of Impaler makes a lot more sense as to what happened in the capital with Marika being Impaled in the Erd tree. Just speculation obviously but I'd wager that the city we see in the DLC is actually the missing part of Leyndell that is just gone in the base game. Messmer probably turned on the Golden Order by burning the Erd tree which stared a war that Marika moved to the Shadow Lands somehow by the time it reached the capital. One of my biggest headscratchers in the base game is why is over half of the Capital just gone? We go through a side door to get into the place and we can even see the main gate to the city if you stand on the wall at the top of the elevator behind the Fortified Manor just down in the empty pit. I've heard people say "oh well it was flooded" because its water on the map, but we can see one of the doors that would have lead to a lower part of the city at the opposite end of the capital's main road from the Erd tree and from the wall behind the fortified manor I already mentioned we can see that the water is way to low for that. In the opening cutscene of the game we even see Leyndell's main gate being sieged out, so either this happened after the war of the Shattering had already started or its was such a well kept secret that nobody knew they were sieging into an empty pit. Given that the gate doesn't seem to have been breached in the base game, id say that it happened during the war so defenders could realistically hold the gate from an enemy attack. The War of the Shattering is honestly what we need the most info on for me. It is such a scrambled mess that we still can't actually even place a starting point of the war, it just happened sometime after the Night of Black Knives and we have no idea how long it lasted or even how long its been since the final battle in Caelid. Maybe the thing behind the cloud at the center of the map isn't even anything as big as we thought, maybe its just the final divine tower with Messmer's great rune.
It is likely that the missing part of the capital is in Deeproot Depths. You can see ruins have similar architecture to the buildings that remained above ground in the capital. But, most notably, it is right under the capital. It doesn't line up perfectly, so there's still a chance you're onto something.
@@crowntotheundergroudMaybe it doesn’t directly line up due to the ruins landing in moving water causing it to slowly shift over time? Idk lol But I definitely believe those are the ruins of what once used to be the now empty section of the capital. The section where Godwyn’s murder took place. Not exactly knowing what to do or maybe being scared to get close to the body made the decision to block off & sink the murder scene an easy one. Maybe even too easy seeing as it would allow Godwyn’s body quick access to the roots of the erdtree in hopes that every thing would turn out fine, if they were quick enough. But we all know how that turned out.
I love the opening line of the trailer referring to Miquella "wield[ing] love to shrive clean the hearts of men". I think the line saying he "wields love" is an extremely important one, connected to the Bewitching Branch item description which states "Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection." The allusion that Miquella can bewitch others into favouring him sounds very much like him "wielding love" as a weapon, and I can easily see someone saying there's nothing more terrifying.
I also want to point out how Miquella's Bewitching Branch is used to charm foes by stabbing them. Kind of like how Miquella's needle pierces Melania. What if the reason Melania rejected the Rot and its Kindred was because Miquella brainwashed her with his needle? And whose to say he didn't somehow brainwash Mogh into stealing him so he could go to the Shadowlands?
@@CGR1410 I think it is a different situation here. Griffith used it for selfishness... Miquella is using it for the sake of trying to fix the world into a world of “graceful or malign” properties. Both characters are still using their affection as a weapon (which is still bad), but Miquella is doing it to serve the realm (persecuted people have refuge in the Haligtree; Miquella trying to kill Godwyn to save the worlds from death root; Unalloyed gold was made to oppose the influence the outer gods have on the realm etc.). Sure, Miquella is doing some “manipulative” activity, but it is all for the sake of mankind. Griffith simply seeks to fulfil his prophecy
@@HeevaEgo yeah we could say we know Miquellas true intentions and how he’s a “good” guy but we won’t know for certain till the DLC. but the wielding love part is just griffith-like
It may also be worth noting that Messmer seems to take a lot of inspiration from Dracula. Dracula was known as "Vlad the Impaler" for mounting his enemies on pikes etc. Messmer seems to do the same. Then there's all the red, dealing in death in a "place bereft of light," its very subtle and I am all here for it. I was so looking forward to this video the minute I saw the trailer. I'm not amazing at souls games, but Vaati gives me the courage and determination to see all these amazing things for myself.
Soulsborne games always took a lot of inspiration from Berserk. In this case Messmer is the spitting image of the Flame Dragon Knight. I'm really surprised Vaati didn't adress this...
With regards to only Marika & the Giants being impaled, I think it's important to recall that Deathblight pretty viscerally impales people, and Messmer's flame has these tendrils of black that are either reminiscent of the shadowy tree or of deathroot.
The king. Love that you took your time to make this. Most people just made videos without gathering all the information, therefore making a lot of what they were saying wrong.
Yeah I was expecting vaati to crank it out first, but he held back from speculation to give us a much more accurate perspective Very appreciated. Still love the other members in the community's videos, but this one is the best for the dlc
I just noticed the pink/magenta magic the Roderick-like character is casting looks identical to the magic that the hand enemies in places like Caria Manor cast with their ring. The magic that binds you in place and opens you up for a grab/big attack. Interesting
Regarding Mesmer's "Impaler" title and his links to dragons: The former could also be a nod to Vlad Tepes III, AKA Vlad the Impaler or, you know, Vlad Dracula. "Dracula" literally translates to "Son of the Dragon." Obviously not something that would be mentioned in lore, but an interesting little reference nontheless.
Messmer could also be a George R.R. Martin reference. In the Blood and Fire book, Rhaenyra Targaryen is said to have given birth to a child with dragon-like birth defects. I love how this DLC has everybody's mind going into overdrive with what they can see and spot in the trailers.
3 things I noted watching this wonderful video : - Messmer's "missing" eye is the same as Melina. - His snake-staff reminds me a lot of Hermes' caduceus. - If the spirit wolf invocation is a link to Miquella, then there's the statue in the arena of Maliketh who's a reminder as well, accentuating the theory
There is quite a theme of missing left eyes. The only exception is Ranni, but even there, her spirit form… arguably the true form…is joined at the left eye to the doll’s right eye so the pattern still stands. No idea why left eyes have so much importance. I suppose the scar and sore seals are also the left eyes (Radagon/Marika are missing the left too) so that lore may be part of it.
I still believe that Ranni and Miquella were conspiring together on the Night of the Black Knives. Godwyn was a dragon-slaying gigachad that was somehow slain by Numen assassins, and seemingly without struggle. I think St Trina had put Godwyn to sleep beforehand, which is why his eye rolls open AFTER he dies. It seems he was unconscious and limp before the death ritual. Miquella may have even been jealous of Godwyn. The "O brother, dear brother" quote on the Epitaph sword may have been lip-service of veneration to deflect guilt in the conspiracy.
The quote can also be his guilt because he didn’t expect how cruel Godwyn’s fate would be. It could explain his actions in trying to right his wrong with the eclipse
Why would Miquella want Godwyn dead? Ontop of that, if he did, why would the statues at the Haligtree depict Miquella and Malenia being comforted by Godwyn?
I like this theory honestly. It's hard to expound without making assumptions about Godwyn and Miquellas relationship changing from the haligtree statues of the three being close but Miquella is such an enigma it's totally possible he changed as he learned more and more about the failings of the golden order.
Melina is Messmers twin. He killed her and was banished by Marika which caused her to eventually go crazy and shatter the elden ring. Melina is an ash and thats why she comes and leave just like a summon
Also if you notice Messmer's left eye is not working and Melina's left eye is closed throughout the game unless you finish the gloam eyed queen ending. A separate thing I noticed that isn't related to Messmer and Melina is that the guy wearing the cloak and pulling the sword out of his head has a cloak that looks really similar to Morgott's cloak.
just a few moments ago i put forth a speculation linking the both of them....lol i was only a month late. But... I totally get those vibes that there is a very close link there. I don't really know exactly what... I was wondering if it was a duality of person situation like Marika and Radagon, being the same person.
I've seen you comment on multiple videos, hows it that a million sub channel only has 1 video, oh right, you either hacked/bought a channel. Both against YT guidelines btw.
Has anyone looked into Godwyn being a part of the DLC? If I recall Miquella was helping Godwyn to achieve a "true death" or something like. Maybe Miquella's journey to the land of the shadows is to help achieve that, and the lord he's waiting for the return of isn't the Tarnished, but Godwyn? No idea just surprised he hasn't been mentioned
He hasn't been mentioned because there's no hint of him in the trailer, and not even any hint of Death Root infesting The Land Of Shadow. Your theory could be true, but it's a shot in the dark for now.
I really am hoping to see something to do with Godwyn, ANYTHING with Godwyn considering his entire ass model is only a bit visible while embedded in the roots of the Erdtree, I would LOVE to see a fight utilizing his model, Godwyn the Death-Prince is quite literally the one demigod I feel is massively underused for how big he is being the inciting incident of The Shattering and sure he has his own ending (Age of Duskborn), but also Lichdragon Fortissax is quite literally the coolest setting for a boss at the end of a questline but he's fought so early on that I feel like he is topped by many other bosses in the game and easily forgettable despite how amazing his setting is.
@@gooblop There is actually death root in the background at some point during the trailer, when we get a shot of a castle or city with only one path that connects it and at the top there are pieces floating like in Farm Azula. Look to the right and you'll see it.
Messmer does do the ability where he can rend a bunch of lances upwards, very similar to how cleanrot knights can do it too(Incantations but Messmer's are actually physical lances). Possibly meaning he was a progenitor or the first cleanrot knight?
Maybe Malenia and Messmer were on good terms, with him training her knights at some point. Or the opposite is true, Messmer learned the incantation possibly made by Miquella and later corrupted it with his own blasphemy.
@@gsomslayerNo one said that. He's saying those knights could have originally served or been inspired by Messmer. Since their magic and visual design seem to mimic his. Kinda like how Godfrey has Serosh, and all his crucible knights that followed him use animalistic (crucible) incantations. Theory may be wrong, but its not a bad one to speculate on currently.
Always wondered why when you fight morgott and he’s talking about the thrones there was a space between miquella and Melanie’s chair. Makes sense now that was mostly where messmers chair was. Also heard a good theory the center part of the map surrounded by the divine towers is where the land of shadows is. The vail over the tree in the land of shadows is physically hiding the area. That area is about the size of limgrave. And you can find the dogs in caelid and the mountain tops but no where else so be fire it was hidden they could of moved between the two areas but once it was hidden the were trapped on either side. It makes a lot of sense.
The reverse tree is a root system. If you turn the image upside down you see much more. Which is apt. Since you are going to the roots of story of the beginning.
I have been waiting for this! A few observations: 1.That "red dancer" has so many paralells of the blue dancer/blind swordsman that mentored Malenia. The boats in the background would also fit nicely with that as well. 2. I keep looking at Messmer's snake, his helmet and his other snake ornamentation and I believe this is actually a single 2 headed snake.
The idea that this DLC could be the thing to wrap up elden ring's entire story in a bow, like the ringed city did, is crazy and im so hyped if thats the case. I love how from software's DLCs sometimes become integral parts of the overall story, sometimes becoming the end to it
Maybe this is really dumb, but I kinda like the idea that all the rune towers are holding up the veil that covers the Land of Shadow, and that it actually resides *under* the gulf/sea between Altus and Limgrave/Caelid. I personally love the idea that it's almost a pseudo-Atlantis, that the sea we see in the overworld is a powerful glamour overtop part of the continent that used to be there but has been foresaken to such a degree that it's been literally wiped off the map. I think would explain why we have to teleport there, but how it is also a physical place that is as close to the actual Erdtree as it seems to be described.
I was also thinking of something similar. My theory is that it lies somewhere between the Lands Between and the Deeproot Depths. Hear me out. My first reason stems from the image at 9:03, where we see a strong light above the large tree and the large gnarled roots on the edges of many of the cliffs. Zulie's video highlighted a second trunk entwined around the main tree. My theory is that they are in fact the rotten roots caused by Godwyn. These roots can also be seen snaking around the cliff edges as well. Since we know the rot is influencing the "overworld", as seen in the Altus Plateau, the Land of Shadows could be sitting somewhere underneath it and directly above Godwyn's corpse. My next point alludes to Marika being Numen and how to get to the Land of Shadows. Numen runes can be found from Giant Ants in the Deeproot Depths, so, if we tie this with Marika being a Numen and being from the Land of Shadows, it could be possible that it exists somewhere close to Deeproot. To get to the Land of Shadows, one must strip themselves of their flesh (mortal shell, if you will) to enter. Since those who have died are supposed to be buried at the roots of the Erdtree to re-enter the cycle, it wouldn't be a leap to suggest that the Land of Shadows is tied to the roots of the Erdtree.
Something to keep in mind about the fire of Mesmer, the Erdtree capitol is already covered in ash by the time you get there. He could’ve lit the tree on fire at some point, and was banished to the shadow world for it (sorry if you say this in the video, I haven’t finished it yet lol)
I’ve been checking your channel multiple times a day since the trailer release in anticipation of a breakdown. Once again, you have not disappointed. On behalf of myself and my fellow tarnished, we thank you.
Thank you for making a fromsoft lore channel that isn’t loud and going a mile a minute. I love the well paced videos with your soothing voice. Your videos are fantastic.
37:30 something I've noticed that no one seems to be talking about when it comes to the guy pulling the spined thing out of his eye. Look at his garb. Royal looking, most certainly heavily decorated. And, most importantly, a bright yellow... What have we not seen any reference to in Elden Ring that has been in every single other Souls game to date? I guarantee that guy is going to end up giving us a Xanthous throwback of some sort. Be it hat or garb.
I think he may be Marikas father, note the painting of him with the woman next to him, she's holding her belly the same way pregnant women were often depicted in old paintings
YES! Since I first heard it in the trailer it has been echoing around in my head ever since. I’ve been rewatching the trailer exclusively to hear it. It will most likely be a boss theme.
One thing that caught my eye in the trailer is that the moon in the background when the slug-face monster eats the face of the tarnished, seems to have the same patterns of the dark moon in the main game (which Vaati speculated in another video might hold Ranni's rune onto it). Its curious that this would also be visible in the Land of Shadow. Also - Are the suspended pots you see at some point jar-people in the making?
Melina and Mesmer both left eye closed, Melina having burns on left hand and having dragon like claw on left eye and Mesmer having dragon like wing on left side of his back. I would say they are on same side. especially that Melina burns the erdtree, wasn't mentioned by morgott when he called on his siblings near the gate of the erdtree same goes to mesmer and the thing with snakes being viewed as traitors to the erdtree
Its also possible that Morgott doesn't know who Messmer is. If the Land of Shadows is a place hidden and separate from the Lands Between, then Messmer could have been sent there for his safety or for some other purpose. Messmer could have been afflicted by some kind of curse, similar to Malenia, which caused him to grow serpent-like features. This whole DLC has everybody's brain on overdrive.
I keep thinking about how weird the gap between godrick's,miquella and malenia's thrones are,as if there was a supposed throne between them,if not it is very funny how the twins had their thrones a football field away from godrick's
I think these videos remind me of literature class where the teacher tells me what everything represented and ties all of the links. I realize I only got a third of the picture. The one key difference is this is wildly interesting, with great production values and wonderful narration.
If you notice the man trying to pull a gold spine out of his face, that spine looks very similar in material to the same weapon we get for defeating marika/radagon, (which could maybe tell us more about how and why certain gods become weapons when they die) and other than that the hunchback enemies around 1:45 of the trailer also are holding candles in the same shape as that golden spine which could indicate that maybe some of the golden order have been worshiping or memorializing that noble (as we see a catacombs door and graves in the background of that same shot)
Its probably been pointed out already by now, but a detail that hasnt left my mind since i noticed it days ago is that at the end were we see possibly-miquella raising his hand at the shadowy erdtree is that there the sap thats been flowing down in every other shot isnt there anymore .. i dont think its anythign significant but if i dont say it at least once it wouldnt leave my head xD Anyway, great video and looking forward to more! :D
@@Ellemonadze Miquella is attempting to restore Godwyn using the player's power and something in the Shadow Realm in order to force Godwyn into being his elden lord
Actually…I wouldn’t be surprised if Mequella is both Messmer and Melina. He may be trapped there and he keeps helping you, even from the very beginning, he gives you torrent, spirit ashes ect. In the DLC trailer, he specifically states that he’s waiting for his law to return to him in the shadow world. I would not be surprised if he split himself into three Mesmer his body Melina is a projection that he needs to burn the mother tree and his soul, which is trapped in the shadow world. This also kind of makes sense because both Melina and Mesmer both have that same eye closed. And the person sitting in the cocoon clearly at least to me looks like has Mesmer’s arm.
Miquella bestowing secret favors on us from the beginning of the game gave me goosebumps and god does it have me even more excited to finally meet him! Does anyone know where the music is from that plays at 29:50 during this big scene in the video? It’s so soothing
About that comment of Kessler only having one functional eye. I’m making a SUPER long Hail Mary play here but imagine that Melina and Messmer are twins because Melina only has one eye that works(outside of when we see the frenzied flame ending) and they could possible share the smoldering butterfly item as their sign. Then again this take is so far out I’m very doubtful of what I just typed.
Also one more thing to add on Melina’s left eye there is a dragon wing and it’s pretty interesting that messmer has some type of dragon wing or armor he wears as well🤷♂️
Something I noticed lately is that some corpses in the main game (the ones you loot items from) look just as they were freshly burned, with dark red cracks around them, and they are often placed in areas with no apparent fire hazards. Maybe that is somehow related to Messmer, especially with that line about death in his flames to all stripped of grace? Also, about death - his flames share the dark red hue and black smoke of Destined Death, but lack the golden sprites that Maliketh's black blade emits. Also Knights in the trailer appear to be wearing armor with the same color scheme as Malileth (black iron with gold accents). Next, the smoldering butterflies and general association with flames were tied to Melina before, but now shifted to Messmer. But that's not the only thing they have in common - they both have their left eye closed, and the right discolored in some way. Messmer's is the eye of Dragon Communion. And Melina's is definitely stripped of grace, and she herself is burnt and bodiless, and has possibly been to the shadow realm. "Those stripped of grace of Gold shall all meet death, in the embrace of Messmer's flame". And lastly, her eye opens when the world is burned with the flame of frenzy in the frenzied ending, as she promises to deliver Destined Death to our Tarnished.
Hmm that might have a connection to the crucified people that only scream at night at limgrave? Like torturing them from another dimension or something like that
It's simply delightful. Your voice and narrative, your detalistic explanation. Your art. Deep details! All of it fits amazing. Thank your for being so good with these videos productions and also for bringing joy for all with your passion, so well represented, for the game.
21:39 If you look at the frame where Messmer in the trailer shows his flame for the first time during the dialogue, it shows that the flame he is using is thorn magic, and what you said about the fell god having Messmer as its vessel kind of adds up but that's only speculation.
Very cool. Also, sorry for the wall of text. On the theoretical point of the Land of Shadow being a possible afterlife in Elden Ring: Given the Celtic influences on the game, something to note is that of Celtic mythology's 'Otherworld'. Among being a place of gods and possibly the dead, Scathach, a warrior Queen, also resided there in the a place known, translated, as 'Land of Shadows'. To further point out this influence, Scathach also possessed and eventually gave away to her greatest student the Gae Bulg, the name of which translates to 'Mortal pain/death'. This kinda ties into what you pointed out how Marika makes use of everyone, and maybe why she's impaled. I also can't help but make Vlad III connections to Mesmer, especially with how Vald III was demonicized for his actions, and with his name of Dracule, a lot of dragon and Satan is thrown on him. Something I can't help but to point at the webbed wings and serpents all over Mesmer.
Final Comment: I’m calling my shot: I would love if Mequella is both Messmer and Melina. He may be trapped there via some attempt to achieve godhood like his mother (probably to break his curse). If you think about it, he keeps helping you, even from the very beginning. He gives you torrent, spirit ashes ect. In the DLC trailer, he specifically states that he’s waiting for his lord to return to him in the shadow world which he seems to favor you for that. I would not be surprised if he split himself into three (which he is already known to do), Messmer his warped body, probably through some blasphemous failed attempt to grow via dragons communion, Melina is a projection that he needs to burn the Erd tree to escape and his soul, which is trapped in the shadow world (the thing we see in the end of the trailer). This also kind of makes sense because both Melina and Messmer both have that same eye closed, and the person sitting in the cocoon clearly, at least to me looks like has Messmer’s arm even though we call it Mequella’s cocoon. Also, on a final note, the original collectors set included a statue of Melania, while this one is her brother…Messmer (Mequella). In the DLC trailer, it is stated that we are following Mequella’s steps and where we start in the main game, it may be deliberate that it is called “The First Step”.
holy shit, when I first read that first sentence you wrote, I was thinking "nuh uh no way" but actually, that's a really cool idea and it actually sounds possible, if Marika/Radagon are the same person but exist as separate entities, Miquella could work that way as well
Fun thought. Blackguard actually kinda mentions what feels like the truth. "Maybe something went tits up with it. Maybe... it's been broke for a good long time." It is "broke". The current Erdtree is just a godly illusion. You can tell because it doesn't have any locations to acquire its amber.
Just wanted to mention Helphens Steeple mentions a black tree and that it is a path for the new glorious dead. So what if this new Bkack tree is the Helphens Tree? The red glow around it could be similar to what I’m gonna call “The Fallens Grace” where those who side see that red grace could be that red glow near the highest point of the tree.
I'm curious to see if they're gonna have some Easter eggs in the lands between if you complete the DLC. For example, imagine starting a new file in which you defeat Radahn and Mohg, but not Malenia: what I would like to see is an interaction with her in which we tell her that we met Miquella and maybe give her some closure without having to kill her. It's like the other quests where changing one choice you make gives you a different outcome. I think it would be pretty cool. Maybe it can spawn a new quest in which we help her get to the shadow land to be with her brother. I know it's kind of improbable, but one can dream right?
This is going to be even more crazy journey for us, in this upcoming DLC here. The fact that the lore of this world will heavily focus upon Miquella will make this even more crazy. Also that crimson flamed guy with snakes around him, just looks so awesome. Messmer doesn't messes around, and you can tell by his boss fight gameplay.
I'm not seeing anyone talking about Goldmask here. We meet him at Altus, where war against the Erdtree broke out, in Leyndell where he teaches us about Marika/Radagon, then at Mountaintops where the giants have been impaled, then goes back to the Colosseum where people revelled at the snake ornamented warriors battling. He also says as much in the base game as Miquella (...) and has a similar husk-like form as base game Miquella. Calling it now, Goldmask will be a major NPC in this.
You might be onto something there. He also dies at the end of his quest after understanding the nature of the erdtree and imperfection of the golden order. So he is free of his body and could very well have traveled to the land of shadow to learn the truth
Messmer is the flagship boss of this DLC, obviously, but I strongly doubt he is the ultimate boss here, the same way Lady Maria was the flagship boss of the Bloodborne DLC, but the Orphan of Kos was the actual final boss (Also I'm sure his title of "Messmer the Impaler" will change during his bossfight, to become something like "Messmer the Elden Flame" or something like this, in his final phase). I would bet either Miquela in his final godlike form is the ultimate boss, or either, more interestingly, I would bet Godwyn is, in an ultimate f'ed up form. Excited to see what's coming!
I always got the vibe that Radahn's helmet was evoking the mandibles of the falling star creatures, not a boar's tusks. They're angled to point inwards, not up. And since the falling star creatures are clearly linked to gravity magic, that always sees appropriate to me.
Great analysis, but one thing I'd like to point out: the pink butterflies exist in base game as well, in elphael you can find them in multiple areas near aeonian butterflies.
HYPED
Me waiting for this vid
Yeah, waited for your lore video for a long time
Finally
I swear I'm bugging but it seems like you meant to put the word trailer on the title. Possibly, maybe, idk
Man I still can't get over the veils that gently cover the sky. Miyazaki and his team are freaking gods at creating intensely interesting imagery.
The veils in the sky are reminiscent of the veils surrounding the bed in Marika's room in Leyndell. But it's not such an incredibly relevant detail, because I think it's simply the physical manifestation of the fact that the Land of Shadows has been "veiled"....hidden....isolated from the rest of the Lands Between.
I think the veils are miquella trying to create an eclipse which must have been tied to the shadow realm all along
Fromsoft is great at maintaining consistency in the lore.
Other devs would just make up new things, so it makes sense.
Have you not read some of GRRM prose? He has stunning imagery too. It’s GRRM world that Miyazaki is playing with
@@HenbotI understand the admiration but in an interview Miyazaki said GRRM didn’t write anything in relation to this DLC
Someone made a joke about how Vaati would make an hour long video out of a 3 minute trailer, and it turns out they were almost right.
They crammed so much imagery at such a lightning pace that was sort of shorthand for the loremasters to go wild with
@@MikeTheD in a way, that is really good commercial for FromSoft though. They add a lot of stuff in a short vid, and many people talk about it, spreading info to more people
I don't get the joke. It took many hours to make the 3 minute trailer, why would it be weird if you spent 1 hour pulling it back apart?
every single sarcastic comment you can possibly make about a business 2020 onwards is more likey true than not.
We have left the art age, and entered the content age.
The joke I saw was 2 hours 😂
Something that stood out to me 8:51 the woman in the painting is clearly pregnant, with her hand over belly, like a pregnant mother would in other ancient and historical pieces of art.
The Shadow Land, “where the Goddess, Marika, first step foot.” I wonder, could that imply that the Shadow Land is where Queen Marika was born?
Perhaps the old man and the pregnant woman in the painting are Marika’s mother and father. When the Elden Ring needed a vessel, an Empyrean, perhaps in exchange for power, these Numen’s offered their child Marika, as the first Empyrean of the Greater Will.
HOLY FUCK YOURE RIGHT.
I didnt believe it, searched it and yeah, paintings of pregnant women mostly held that same pose.
Or, what if that is Marika, pre-rise-to-godhood, pregnant with Messmer?
What if marika was never born and died in the womb being born in the land of the shadows
I think a core aspect of the story is pregnancy, lineage, and fertility.
Miyazaki and Martin tell the stories of Fertility in a serious manner. People assume marika has so many children and husbands because she’s some arrogant wh*re... but Miyazaki and Martin never wrote their stories this way. I think a hidden aspect to the story - that answers soo many questions - is about pregnancy... whatever Marika’s story is, we’ll learn about why marika couldn’t be comfortable with her births.
CentredTarnished posits that the Lands Between map is shaped like a foetus, and the Land of Shadow (middle of the map) is located where umbilical cord should be.
The folk in the painting could be Marikas parents, Marika herself... but one things for sure, they are DEFINITELY related to marika in some way, given the significance of her infertility story.
(I also believe Marika is the Gloam Queen, but she removed that part of herself and threw it into the Shadow Realm once she became a god. The Gloam Queen represents everything Marika does, but instead she tries to hide that part of herself from the world. The Shadow Realm is literally a place of Shadow - a place of which is supposed to be hidden from the denizens of the current order and world)
@@terraomastarI was thinking the same thing, but that woman doesn’t really look like Marika
If Empyreans all have a Shadow that takes the form of a wolf (Marika/Maliketh, Ranni/Blaidd), I find it interesting that the default Tarnished is always wearing the Raging Wolf Armor. The armor description states, "Armor worn by Vargram the Bloody Wolf, one of the first Tarnished to visit the Roundtable Hold. According to the old legends, wolves are the shadows of the Empyrean. Vargram aspired to such a state himself."
So, if one can acquire the "state" of becoming a Shadow, and our default Tarnished is seen wearing this "wolf armor," perhaps WE are a Shadow... to Miquella? After all, he gives us the gifts of Torrent and the Spirit-Calling Bell, and he's awaiting his "promised Lord" (promised Elden Lord, maybe?)
I think Miquella has been essentially "training" us to become his Shadow this entire time, and that when we get to the DLC he will reveal what our purpose in serving him is.
Honestly one of the coolest theories ive heard that actually has backing
I *love* this theory
Genius
Maybe thats why he seems so completly ''godlike'' in the trailer
that would be cool as hell
I also thought about the default Tarnished point for a long time
like, it's the main Armor Set in the game and always shows up in trailers, it makes sense
I’m sensing heavy ‘Messmer-will-only-be-the-halfpoint-of-the-DLC-and-the-second-half-will-be-completely-nuts’ type of vibes
Right, Fromsoft initial reveal trailers typically don't spoil the final boss of the DLC at all, they could break the trend but with Miyazaki in charge I would think not spoiling the finale so early on is an intentional choice he wouldn't go back on.
I'm hoping that's the truth. It would be wack if he would be the main boss.
@mikeklim9623why
Which, personally, is my favorite aspect of Miyazaki's works. Bloodborne is still my favorite example of this from him
@mikeklim9623they said they don’t plan on doing another dlc currently. I think they might do more with the game but this will probably be it for the full on expansions
I've been waiting for this one
Me to🔥
Haven't we all ?
Yeah, since February 2023
I see we have a found a fellow person of culture who immediately clicks when Vaati uploads
Brother, we all have.
took me a minute to put my finger on it, but the "hippo thing" is giving me major bloodborne shark giant ptsd
DEEPWOKEN SHARKO REFERENCE
@@peenyyt4921this one’s sanity must’ve already crumbled..
…oh god
Damn I hated those bastards
Our eyes have yet to open….
Vaati, that 3 minute overview overlapped with the trailer, perfectly spacing your sentences between those in the trailer, was absolutely beautiful.
Bro thought we wouldn't notice
Yes! I was about to exit and watch the trailer, then I realized what he was doing.
@@idkyet3573what
@@idkyet3573 I'll steal your kidneys
No one hour analysis? 😢
Messmer seems to me like he upgraded into every possible faction. His one eye looks like dragon magic, the other eye like the gloomeyed mother and the godskins, his fire from the giants, the snakes whatever rykard is, but still is kinda under marika and the golden order. Dude is just a player that has maxed out every skill 😂😂
If you watch Hawkshaws video on serpent lore you’ll understand that basically all of those are connected. The dragons, the godskins, and the god-devouring serpent are all interconnected with snake/caduceus imagery, which is literally what Messmer is decorated with.
Yep, man saw Soul of Cinder copying all the Chosen Undead of the past and decided he wanted to try his hand at copying all the Tarnished.
He's the Elden Ring equivalent of an edgelord.
Thank you! Everyone is on here with their half baked theories and it's more likely that Miyizaki is just a freaking troll.
hahahahahahahahahahhaha
I love how people are making 40 minute to an hour long videos from just a 4 minute trailer. Really shows just how much care and dedication fromsoft puts in their games
Honestly what other franchises can do the same ?
From soft dedication and their fans passion, these guys ate the goats of the modern AAA gaming industry
@@IronChief13 Hollow Knigth maybe (i know Silksong is basically not real)
Na it shows how down bad we are
very slow voice
It feels like Messmer is just stacking every heresy at once. Its like trying to get as many tattoos as possible just to annoy your strict parents
Maybe Mesmer is stuck in a rebellious teenager phase that he never grew out of
@@Ironfist_Alexander45
“IT’S NOT A PHASE MOM-DAD!”
Or perhaps he is the progenitor of all heresy in elden ring, setting the standard of what is considered heresy across the lands.
(Probably not tho)
@@JoeMama-sl8ux pretty much right lol
The fact that the Lion Boss is three humanoid figures inside basically a costume like a chinese dragon is SO COOL! This is what From Software does better than anyone else! So creative and so cool!
Wow that's an awesome comparison. 🐉🐲
🤡
Chinese is bad
@@meaningfulmindfulness15no its not, they’re promoting Chinese teachings. Horrible
FromSoftware enemies are like characters of a Studio Ghibli movie
Bro the whole "Miquella being Torrent's former owner, guiding Ranni to you, basically orchestrating your whole journey" -thing is fucking mindblowing. It makes everything make sense and that's so dope. Well done again, such great and well researched content.
no its not...its basic first draft story writing,
It's a cool piece of lore in context, but pretty basic for story writing standards.
@@gunny7769It isn't anything special, but it it sick simply because of the way you find out the story and cuz it isn't just that, that is just one more thing about the insane story. It took legit years for us to get that info. It makes it feel less random and kinda hype.
Also why are you not just saying that you disagree, why pretend that you are some smart ass xD
@@gunny7769woah... you should be writing these stories then
@@jankopzmavc6834 Why are you acting like this is a fact? "that is just one more thing about the insane story " It may not be part of any story at all! "It took legit years for us to get that info." What info? Miquella being Torrent's previous master is a THEORY.
Fromsoft announces->Vaatividya explains what i saw->Fromsoft releases-> Vaati then explains what I played and then the beautiful cycle continues. I go in blind for my first playthrough of fromsoft games and the recap via vaati after is one of the best parts.
Agreed dude, I 100% do the exact same thing.
If you live a "normal" life (work, family, etc) you'll have very little amount of time to put the pieces together of any From Software games on your own...
So yeah thank you Vaati.
Who plays "unblinded" with From games lol
I wouldn’t say Miquella was jealous. Rather, he saw Godwyn upholding the rule of the Erdtree. We know Miquella is against the Erdtree because of how it cast out all that were different. Miquella went so far as to make a tree of his own that would replace the Erdtree/golden order.
Godwyn dying sounds like it is necessary to bring about Miquella’s new age.
Yeah I barely get enough time to play in general lol. A dungeon or area can take like half an hour to an hour, and there's hundreds.
Like sometime I'll see something cool like and think "I wonder what's up with these zamor guys". And thankfully Vaati does the reading, theorising (and farming for the items that even HAS the descriptions) for me.
There's not always an objective truth in souls but I've never disliked vaatis subjective ones.
wait so bandai is personally sending Vaati lore poetry? oracle status achieved
"Do you think it vulgar, perhaps? Where I come from, it is a sacred act." might be hinting that Fia came from Land of Shadow.
Fia's storyline was so interesting and cool. I made sure to have her ending as my first playthrough and I want her - or lore surrounding her culture - back so badly in this DLC!
@@wmr5143You want her back? I don't think she offers that. Free* hugs only.
*Disclaimer: hidden charges may apply.
Interesting, I didn’t think about that. Her similar appearance to Marika would make sense too.
Dang, good catch
Her land could possibly be where Ravenmount is located, the guys who own the raptors set and claws, death blight has become a part of whatever the death birds were doing long ago it seems, the Death Ritual Spear also seems like a weapon of Ravenmount since it adds up with what little lore they have
I only just realised that the three wolf ashes from miquella are the same ones he’s embraced by in all those statues. Gonna have to level them up to +10 now
I’m I’m
@@Graes0ns You're you're?
he’s he’s
what do you mean from miquella
@@shukohs the three spirit ashes that ranni gives us are actually from miquella. She says “torrents old master would have wanted you to have them” torrents old master is miquella
"Mother, would thou truly lordship sanction in one so bereft of light?"
I interpreted Messmer's line as taunting towards Marika.
As in "oh really, you will recognize this lowly tarnished a claim to lordship whilst condemning your own blood to banishment?"
Especially since his imagery is so drenched in what Marika's order would see as blasphemous, and thus "bereft of light".
true he could very well have rebelled against her hence his banishment.
still, if the second quote "all those stripped of grace shall meet death" is messmer's quote then it makes him sound faithful to marika, which makes their relationship a mess 😵💫
Do you think he’s talking about us or Godfrey ?
If you run it through a Shakespearean translator, it come out as "Mother, do you really think it's right to give power to someone who is so ignorant?"
Sounds a lot cooler in its original form.
@@Reemon27Actually, it also validates OP's statement, it makes Messmer sound resentful towards the tarnished for being granted the possibility of lordship without the light of gold, unlike him which was banished even though he was her son.
@@Reemon27 I wonder what came first, was he banished because he indulged in what the Golden Order finds blasphemous, or did he begin to blaspheme against the Golden Order because he was banished
The name ‘The Impaler’ could be a reference to Count Vlad Dracula, who was the inspiration for Dracula the vampire. Count Vlad Dracula was a member of the Chivalric Order, the Order of the Dragon. And the name Dracula literally translates to ‘son of dragons’. This reference seems to further connect Messmer to Dragons while building onto the theme of blood which also runs through the trailer.
He's probably gonna be like the Nameless King of Elden Ring
What if he’s the guy who started dragon communion? Like there’s two whole churches dedicated to the practice with a special made alter, we don’t get much on the info besides the Drake Knights, so maybe Mesmer can turn into a whole dragon
@Grimsly3736 after watching the new trailer I actually think you're right.
@@Ouroboros542 this would also explain the Troll Warrior Theodorix being a great magma wyrm in the mountaintops of the giants he was probably a slave turned into that to fight the giants, the war against the giants might’ve actually been a 3-way war Golden Order vs The Giants vs The Dragons since we know the The Giants took the mountaintops from the dragons.
Also to add to my last comment, when I said “the dragons” im referring to the Ice Dragons which I believe are separate from the ancient dragons and did there own thing
Miquella being the players secret guide throughout the entire journey makes so much sense now with the quote of him "awaiting his promised elden lord".
Meaning he was Melina?
@@ericwalker6477no?
@@ericwalker6477hes more likely st trina imo
The only confusing thing in the lore is there’s no mention of a new erdtree being made in Leyndell after abandoning the shadowland one, and from what i understand there can only be one guiding erdtree which grants an Elden ring. so if two erdtrees cant exist at once, but theres no mention of a new erdtree being made, then it makes me think this is some kind of alternate dimension but it was confirmed this takes place in the same world. It’s possible it just wasnt mentioned in the lore that an erdtree was created in leyndell but i think thatd be a pretty memorable thing
Or everyone that knew about the shadowland tree was locked up when the shadowlands was separated but this happened during the age of the erdtree, after radagon left rennala for marika. The influence of the golden order was way beyond the shadowlands at this point, so the rest of the lands between mustve known about it
@@FWS_Sinister it is an alternate dimension, well easier to maybe say a "mirror world" a place parallel to the lands between
I do like that they mentioned that Miquella had a chosen lord, and we received gifts from Miquella, those being Torrent from Melina and the wolves from Ranni. It’s gearing up that Miquella chose our character to become Elden Lord
100% caught that one time while I was playing a new game fresh. It was way too convenient that some unnamed person was gifting us these things for no reason. Like why were WE this special Tarnished to get these gifts but NONE other did? Miquella CHOSE us to be.
Possibly also why Vyke would’ve never became Elden Lord. He could get close, but Miquella would make it impossible for him.
Miquella definitely set us up to be Elden lord (I guess it’s going off the default ending here) but for what reason I guess we’ll find out. Either A. He wants to be our consort/make us his consort or B. Wants to beat us to become the true Elden lord in place of his mother
I don’t think a or b are gonna be the reasons
@@Yklowz180 It's definitely C
@Yklowz180 Eh, that'd be really weird for a game company to make the demigod who's known for, amongst other things, primarily being stuck as a child, to be our consort
@@pizzaguy8844 mohglester did the same thing, and Marika literally screwed HERSELF for kids. Elden ring is no stranger to weird things
Dlc hasn't even came out and Vaat's already got a 40+ video about it... mad respect bro
he needs the money
@@lugia8888And he deserves it xD
I don't know what he can do if FromSoft takes ages for another game tho
There is a lot to speculate and Elden Ring has a crap ton of lore to base things on.
A FromSoftware simp will always be a simp.
@lugia888 This video got 1.7 million views which is like $20,000 Australian dollars. Vaati is doing fine.
Messmer gives me big Lucifer Morningstar vibes. His whole aesthetic, ties to flame, the serpents (like the serpent in Garden of Eden), the fact that he's in the Lands of Shadow which could be a sort of afterlife... etc
Lucifer is just the Latin for morning star, transliterated instead of translated. Morning star or Lucifer is never used to refer to satan or the devil. I don't know if you care, but I feel people should know.
He's also a fallen empyrean which really reminds me of Satan.
LOOKS LIKE YOU COULD USE SOME HELP
FROM THE BIG BOSS OF HELL HIMSELF
@@Ravumhonestly you could debate this all dah
Idk how the snake and Lucifer are related tho
A 40 min video out of a 3 min trailer, Vaati never disappoints.
@@idkyet3573genuinely, why do you say it? Edith Piaf (edit 001) : got multiple notification about that one comment being liked, is there any controversy i missed by only casually enjoying stufff online?
@@idkyet3573what does this even mean? What content is being stolen?
Do you really think this is not transformative content@@idkyet3573 ? That's akin to saying historians have an easy job because they steal their content.
@@idkyet3573get a life, already saw you in another comment saying the same thing
Slightly better than 20m video over one tweet❤
Superb video my guy - June is gonna be a real treat for us all.
Can't wait for your coverage
The rest of us can't wait for EITHER your evaluations.
I myself also have a soft spot for Tarnished Archeologist.
2 things I was looking forward to this week:
1. Shadow of The Erdtree Trailer
2. Vaati’s video explaining the trailer
Yup
One thing I noted is that the pink butterflies exist in at least one place in the base game. In the Haligtree around the rot swamp with the tree spirit, surrounded by pink lilies that I also think are unique to that area.
Messmer really gives my the vibes of the Evil King Zahhāk from Persian mythology. He was a well intentioned boy who wanted to be king who was tricked by the god of evil into killing his father, and then got cursed with two snakes growing out of his shoulders that hungered for human flesh (I think brains or hearts specifically but I can't remember).
That’s actually a great point! Smart thinking. 🐍
oh shit thats where darkness based its premise off from! thats cool
It hungers for hearts and minds? Interesting. There's a whole thing about eating hearts in the game.
i knew his design looked so familiar
It was specifically brains if I recall, yes
A swamp that puts you to sleep sounds much better than a swamp that poisons you
Depends on if sleep builds up while your sleeping, and on whats in the swamp that preys on sleeping tarnished.
Let's just hope we don't get a deathblight swamp
A St. Trina special: the nap-swamp
Needless to say, it'll be an interesting place to be invaded.
Slumber Party down at the bogs 🤣🤣🤣
It's really cool how you can literally see the curtains in the sky next to the burnt erd tree. Like it was not just shadowed but actually fully hidden away by the light of the tree. It might be the same size as limgrave as it kinda overlaps limgrave
Miyazaki stated in an interview that the DLC will be around the same size as Limgrave, so you were right.
I'm more hyped for this video and your lore breakdowns than the DLC itself.
It's as if playing the game is one half of the experience and then watching reliable content creators if the other half. To see what you've missed and if the head canon is truly aligned. Appreciate the work that goes into these.
I was messing around starting a new game after watching this and defeated the scion and i seem to noticed something. After beating the scion after you leave the boss room you get your first crafting material which strangely is a Nascent butterfly, and just before you die at the edge of the cliff is also some Nascent butterflys as if they were leading you to your death so you can proceed. Makes it seem maybe miquella was watching us the whole time during our journey from the start.
For sure
@VaatiVidya : the stripping of Grace might also tie in with the new attack power mechanism brought in.
Grace = runes we use to level up.
To enter the DLC and follow Miquella, we have to renounce our grace and therefore our rune level.
Hence the new attack power mechanism to fit with lore and tie gameplay and lore together
Actually it has to do with my friend I went to university with, named Grace, who has now become a stripper.
Could be a way for him to see if grace was once removed from us, even though we have it now, to be honest you shouldn't ever lose grace
@@Orphioux😂😂😂 tf bro
The way you delivered the preamble in between dialogue during the trailer was really satisfying and expertly done.
Thank you! Intros are always tricky
@@VaatiVidyagreat video! i would apprciate hearing your thoughts on my theories as i think ive gathered some solid evidence in my own video.
Re. The Tarnished's relation to the Land of Shadow, I think it's pretty believable that the Land of Shadow is a dumping ground for the spirits of failed Tarnished.
Due to Marika removing the Rune of Death, spirits stick around after death and have to go _somewhere,_ such as Spirit Ash. In most Lands Between residents' case, the grace of gold has them steadily migrate to the Erdtree to be -probably consumed- reincarnated. Tarnished's spirits go nowhere and just reside in their bodies til Marika's grace rouses them back up.
The Land of Shadow provides a good explanation for the final point of that journey, these souls can eventually slip past any chance of grace saving them and get obliterated by Messmer. I don't think this will be the case as Fromsoft have almost never committed to these death revival ideas this hard (eg. you're pretty much the only undead in dark souls who actually revives), but I would _love it_ if Tarnished NPCs actually showed up in the Land of Shadow if they die in the basegame, even if just as easter egg corpses most of the time
Awesome never actually stopped thinking about the spirit's ashes in that way. On my end I was thinking that Miquella needed to go to that land to use a new tree that it's growing according to the screenshots of the DLC and use maybe the power of the eclipse aka the star of the souless demigods, hence why we need to defeat Radahn to access the DLC as well and the imagery of a candle tree which is the one Miquella use to guide spirits to the catacombs to revive the souless demigods aka Godwing trough that we will fulfill one of Miquellas objectives which is to let Godwing finally rest properly without being cursed.
Elden Rings two trailers and now this trailer have to be some of my favorite trailers ever! Every aspect of them is just so brilliantly put together, from the writing to the shot selecting, to enemies on display, and of course the incredible music to bring it all together. Man, i adore this game!
well aren't you just a connoisseur of fine video game trailers - a real maverick of spectacle one could say!
@@ihanak8814 lol I don't like to toot my own horn or anything.
Relax
*Deus Ex: Human Revolution* is still the best gaming trailer ever. *Callisto Protocol* is up there too (though the game isn't nearly as good as the trailer, it's still a half decent game). *AVP 2010* had a great trailer also, as well as *Gears Of War's "Madworld"* trailer.
@StudioMod Deux Ex: Human Revolution trailer was definitely one of the greats! Also God of War 2 launch trailer and God of War 3 reveal trailer were amazing. I still watch all of these from time to time.
I can't believe miazaki said 30 hours to complete elden ring. took me 3x that
My second playthrough took me less than 10 hours
Yeah because that was probably your first play through, tbh the game is quite short if you just go straight for the main bosses.
Going in blind if you’re a souls veteran, B line the story bosses and skip the optional quests and areas then yes, it’s a 30 hour game.
My first playthrough was relatively straightforward and in the second one I went looking for all the collectible items- so that took way longer
180hrs for 100%
23:54 - I think Marika being impaled had to do with her punishment for breaking the Elden Ring. One of the Elden Beast's grab attacks was called something like "Divine Punishment." The attack would hang the tarnished on a ring (just like Marika at the boss fight) and then be impaled by a punch of light particles similar to what is piercing Marika's torso.
Very nice observation. 👌
It's worth noting that it is specifically Marika's womb that is pierced.
While that attack explains Marika's crucifixion, the spear impaling her womb appears to be made from Destined Death. None of the Elden Beast's attacks use DD, which is what makes her impalement so mysterious.
@@jackhague3828it looks more like a spear of amber starlight than destined death to me
The capital and the little sliver of the Erd tree we actually can see are pretty clearly burnt and all the ash around the capital more than proves that the Erd tree must have been set on fire at some point. I always assumed that Melina was somehow the one who did it because of being the kindling maiden with very little other information on her, but with the combination of Messmer's affinity for fire and his nickname of Impaler makes a lot more sense as to what happened in the capital with Marika being Impaled in the Erd tree. Just speculation obviously but I'd wager that the city we see in the DLC is actually the missing part of Leyndell that is just gone in the base game. Messmer probably turned on the Golden Order by burning the Erd tree which stared a war that Marika moved to the Shadow Lands somehow by the time it reached the capital. One of my biggest headscratchers in the base game is why is over half of the Capital just gone? We go through a side door to get into the place and we can even see the main gate to the city if you stand on the wall at the top of the elevator behind the Fortified Manor just down in the empty pit. I've heard people say "oh well it was flooded" because its water on the map, but we can see one of the doors that would have lead to a lower part of the city at the opposite end of the capital's main road from the Erd tree and from the wall behind the fortified manor I already mentioned we can see that the water is way to low for that. In the opening cutscene of the game we even see Leyndell's main gate being sieged out, so either this happened after the war of the Shattering had already started or its was such a well kept secret that nobody knew they were sieging into an empty pit. Given that the gate doesn't seem to have been breached in the base game, id say that it happened during the war so defenders could realistically hold the gate from an enemy attack. The War of the Shattering is honestly what we need the most info on for me. It is such a scrambled mess that we still can't actually even place a starting point of the war, it just happened sometime after the Night of Black Knives and we have no idea how long it lasted or even how long its been since the final battle in Caelid. Maybe the thing behind the cloud at the center of the map isn't even anything as big as we thought, maybe its just the final divine tower with Messmer's great rune.
It is likely that the missing part of the capital is in Deeproot Depths. You can see ruins have similar architecture to the buildings that remained above ground in the capital. But, most notably, it is right under the capital. It doesn't line up perfectly, so there's still a chance you're onto something.
@@crowntotheundergroudMaybe it doesn’t directly line up due to the ruins landing in moving water causing it to slowly shift over time? Idk lol
But I definitely believe those are the ruins of what once used to be the now empty section of the capital. The section where Godwyn’s murder took place. Not exactly knowing what to do or maybe being scared to get close to the body made the decision to block off & sink the murder scene an easy one. Maybe even too easy seeing as it would allow Godwyn’s body quick access to the roots of the erdtree in hopes that every thing would turn out fine, if they were quick enough. But we all know how that turned out.
It's always amazing how Vaati manages to make 40+ minute videos from a 2-3 minute trailer
he’ll pump out another 40 videos on the trailer too
never underestimate Vaati's ability to make content out of scraps
He accepted a 30 minute lore video challenge with just a poster
Absolutely. Also shows the masterclass work of fromsoft to pump that much detail and art into their video games. Unbelievably detailed
@@primarchlogarius is there a link to this?
I love the opening line of the trailer referring to Miquella "wield[ing] love to shrive clean the hearts of men". I think the line saying he "wields love" is an extremely important one, connected to the Bewitching Branch item description which states "Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection." The allusion that Miquella can bewitch others into favouring him sounds very much like him "wielding love" as a weapon, and I can easily see someone saying there's nothing more terrifying.
I also want to point out how Miquella's Bewitching Branch is used to charm foes by stabbing them. Kind of like how Miquella's needle pierces Melania. What if the reason Melania rejected the Rot and its Kindred was because Miquella brainwashed her with his needle? And whose to say he didn't somehow brainwash Mogh into stealing him so he could go to the Shadowlands?
Feeds more into his Griffith comparison
@@CGR1410 I think it is a different situation here. Griffith used it for selfishness... Miquella is using it for the sake of trying to fix the world into a world of “graceful or malign” properties.
Both characters are still using their affection as a weapon (which is still bad), but Miquella is doing it to serve the realm (persecuted people have refuge in the Haligtree; Miquella trying to kill Godwyn to save the worlds from death root; Unalloyed gold was made to oppose the influence the outer gods have on the realm etc.).
Sure, Miquella is doing some “manipulative” activity, but it is all for the sake of mankind.
Griffith simply seeks to fulfil his prophecy
@@HeevaEgo yeah we could say we know Miquellas true intentions and how he’s a “good” guy but we won’t know for certain till the DLC. but the wielding love part is just griffith-like
@@HeevaEgo The path to hell is paved with good intentions.
17:20 LMAO I didn't expect this from you, 10/10
Laughed at this as well, peak humor
Vaati should do more funnies fr his Menderbug cameo in Mossbag's Hollow Knight lore video was peak comedy too
This caught us all off guard
That was the last thing I expected from a Vaati video
The ba dumm tss and the being killed for the pun had me choking.
looks like Elden Ring is going Dark Souls way. I love it!
It may also be worth noting that Messmer seems to take a lot of inspiration from Dracula. Dracula was known as "Vlad the Impaler" for mounting his enemies on pikes etc. Messmer seems to do the same. Then there's all the red, dealing in death in a "place bereft of light," its very subtle and I am all here for it.
I was so looking forward to this video the minute I saw the trailer. I'm not amazing at souls games, but Vaati gives me the courage and determination to see all these amazing things for myself.
Dracula also means son of the dragon
First thing i thought of too!
Messmer may have been the one who impaled the guy who's pulling the spear out of his own head.
👏👏👏
Soulsborne games always took a lot of inspiration from Berserk. In this case Messmer is the spitting image of the Flame Dragon Knight. I'm really surprised Vaati didn't adress this...
With regards to only Marika & the Giants being impaled, I think it's important to recall that Deathblight pretty viscerally impales people, and Messmer's flame has these tendrils of black that are either reminiscent of the shadowy tree or of deathroot.
☝
The tendrils resemble the flame/thorns of the Blood Star cult.
Please do not let him have some insta kill deathblight attack. His rotting sibling was bad enough 😢
Fer sure. I think Godwin is gunna see what's good as the final boss. Bro has been growing all over the place. Even in the deathblight frogs
The king. Love that you took your time to make this. Most people just made videos without gathering all the information, therefore making a lot of what they were saying wrong.
Yeah I was expecting vaati to crank it out first, but he held back from speculation to give us a much more accurate perspective
Very appreciated. Still love the other members in the community's videos, but this one is the best for the dlc
Here we go!!
@@Christmas_Johan He always does it like this. He waits and then brings the best souls lore video ever xD
Quelag and Zullie did great videos. But yeah, fextra, ratatoskr, ziostorm were clunky
@@Aon_Duinetarnished archeologist had takes so far off they were in space
I just noticed the pink/magenta magic the Roderick-like character is casting looks identical to the magic that the hand enemies in places like Caria Manor cast with their ring. The magic that binds you in place and opens you up for a grab/big attack. Interesting
Regarding Mesmer's "Impaler" title and his links to dragons: The former could also be a nod to Vlad Tepes III, AKA Vlad the Impaler or, you know, Vlad Dracula. "Dracula" literally translates to "Son of the Dragon." Obviously not something that would be mentioned in lore, but an interesting little reference nontheless.
oh yeah not lore-wise but in terms of theming thats 100% an inspiration
Messmer could also be a George R.R. Martin reference. In the Blood and Fire book, Rhaenyra Targaryen is said to have given birth to a child with dragon-like birth defects. I love how this DLC has everybody's mind going into overdrive with what they can see and spot in the trailers.
3 things I noted watching this wonderful video :
- Messmer's "missing" eye is the same as Melina.
- His snake-staff reminds me a lot of Hermes' caduceus.
- If the spirit wolf invocation is a link to Miquella, then there's the statue in the arena of Maliketh who's a reminder as well, accentuating the theory
There is quite a theme of missing left eyes. The only exception is Ranni, but even there, her spirit form… arguably the true form…is joined at the left eye to the doll’s right eye so the pattern still stands. No idea why left eyes have so much importance. I suppose the scar and sore seals are also the left eyes (Radagon/Marika are missing the left too) so that lore may be part of it.
I thought about the "missing" eye aswell, maybe there is a connection with Melina there
What if milena is mesmers counterpart as merika is to radagon
@@brewsterway3730 That was my, initial thought too.
@@brewsterway3730 Or Milena is the counterpart of Miquella with her steed as stuff.
I still believe that Ranni and Miquella were conspiring together on the Night of the Black Knives. Godwyn was a dragon-slaying gigachad that was somehow slain by Numen assassins, and seemingly without struggle. I think St Trina had put Godwyn to sleep beforehand, which is why his eye rolls open AFTER he dies. It seems he was unconscious and limp before the death ritual. Miquella may have even been jealous of Godwyn. The "O brother, dear brother" quote on the Epitaph sword may have been lip-service of veneration to deflect guilt in the conspiracy.
This has always been my theory (the latter part). I love your St. Trina/Godwyn idea though
The quote can also be his guilt because he didn’t expect how cruel Godwyn’s fate would be. It could explain his actions in trying to right his wrong with the eclipse
this sounds good, a different perspective of viewing the game
Why would Miquella want Godwyn dead? Ontop of that, if he did, why would the statues at the Haligtree depict Miquella and Malenia being comforted by Godwyn?
I like this theory honestly. It's hard to expound without making assumptions about Godwyn and Miquellas relationship changing from the haligtree statues of the three being close but Miquella is such an enigma it's totally possible he changed as he learned more and more about the failings of the golden order.
Melina is Messmers twin. He killed her and was banished by Marika which caused her to eventually go crazy and shatter the elden ring. Melina is an ash and thats why she comes and leave just like a summon
While I'm not totally convinced, I do think the notion of Marika and Radagon's children all being born twins by nature as pretty neat
Good theory after all this game plays with dual identity.
Also if you notice Messmer's left eye is not working and Melina's left eye is closed throughout the game unless you finish the gloam eyed queen ending.
A separate thing I noticed that isn't related to Messmer and Melina is that the guy wearing the cloak and pulling the sword out of his head has a cloak that looks really similar to Morgott's cloak.
I never noticed Messmer's eye detail that makes alot or sense
just a few moments ago i put forth a speculation linking the both of them....lol i was only a month late. But... I totally get those vibes that there is a very close link there. I don't really know exactly what... I was wondering if it was a duality of person situation like Marika and Radagon, being the same person.
God I love the souls community. It's so nice to have a fan base and a developer that treats their worlds with such care!
Because their words are all we have to prospect from.
They give us puzzle pieces and we put them back together. It's fun.
@@merlinsturley9668Words or worlds?
It's gonna be interesting coming back to this later and see how much Vaati got right.
Vaati's breakdown videos are always worth the wait. The dedication and effort put into each analysis is truly commendable.
shut up bot , go lay vertically in your attic
Thank you Julia Trades Crypto! Your Real and Honest Human subscriber base appreciate your Scam Free Crypto Tips!
I've seen you comment on multiple videos, hows it that a million sub channel only has 1 video, oh right, you either hacked/bought a channel.
Both against YT guidelines btw.
@@4chanwarrior Lol, sure. Fake subs and saying "scam free", sounds soooo trustworthy😂😂
@@NateDates Trying to scam ppl propably.
This was so beautifully made.
You’re the best at these. Please, never stop making them
Has anyone looked into Godwyn being a part of the DLC? If I recall Miquella was helping Godwyn to achieve a "true death" or something like. Maybe Miquella's journey to the land of the shadows is to help achieve that, and the lord he's waiting for the return of isn't the Tarnished, but Godwyn? No idea just surprised he hasn't been mentioned
He hasn't been mentioned because there's no hint of him in the trailer, and not even any hint of Death Root infesting The Land Of Shadow. Your theory could be true, but it's a shot in the dark for now.
Ive been saying yhe same thing bro
There's evidence of death root. What if we get to fight godwyn?! That would be so cool
I really am hoping to see something to do with Godwyn, ANYTHING with Godwyn considering his entire ass model is only a bit visible while embedded in the roots of the Erdtree, I would LOVE to see a fight utilizing his model, Godwyn the Death-Prince is quite literally the one demigod I feel is massively underused for how big he is being the inciting incident of The Shattering and sure he has his own ending (Age of Duskborn), but also Lichdragon Fortissax is quite literally the coolest setting for a boss at the end of a questline but he's fought so early on that I feel like he is topped by many other bosses in the game and easily forgettable despite how amazing his setting is.
@@gooblop There is actually death root in the background at some point during the trailer, when we get a shot of a castle or city with only one path that connects it and at the top there are pieces floating like in Farm Azula. Look to the right and you'll see it.
Messmer does do the ability where he can rend a bunch of lances upwards, very similar to how cleanrot knights can do it too(Incantations but Messmer's are actually physical lances). Possibly meaning he was a progenitor or the first cleanrot knight?
very good observation!
I knew I had seen that move before. Yes!
he cant be a mere knight because he is stated to be a demigod on equal footing with the others
Maybe Malenia and Messmer were on good terms, with him training her knights at some point. Or the opposite is true, Messmer learned the incantation possibly made by Miquella and later corrupted it with his own blasphemy.
@@gsomslayerNo one said that. He's saying those knights could have originally served or been inspired by Messmer. Since their magic and visual design seem to mimic his.
Kinda like how Godfrey has Serosh, and all his crucible knights that followed him use animalistic (crucible) incantations.
Theory may be wrong, but its not a bad one to speculate on currently.
Always wondered why when you fight morgott and he’s talking about the thrones there was a space between miquella and Melanie’s chair. Makes sense now that was mostly where messmers chair was. Also heard a good theory the center part of the map surrounded by the divine towers is where the land of shadows is. The vail over the tree in the land of shadows is physically hiding the area. That area is about the size of limgrave. And you can find the dogs in caelid and the mountain tops but no where else so be fire it was hidden they could of moved between the two areas but once it was hidden the were trapped on either side. It makes a lot of sense.
That Melanie fight is my favorite!
Melanie lmao
This is what you call art my mind is in awe of the lore of this world and Vaati is just perfect to consolidate and break down these complex themes!
The reverse tree is a root system. If you turn the image upside down you see much more. Which is apt. Since you are going to the roots of story of the beginning.
The companion in the portrait could actually be Fia, she did say she was pulled from her Noble from somewhere and was forced to stay in Lands Between.
I have been waiting for this! A few observations: 1.That "red dancer" has so many paralells of the blue dancer/blind swordsman that mentored Malenia. The boats in the background would also fit nicely with that as well.
2. I keep looking at Messmer's snake, his helmet and his other snake ornamentation and I believe this is actually a single 2 headed snake.
Ouroboros doesn't have two heads though
@@cooskiesyou are correct. I'm an idiot. Comment edited to reflect that. Thank you
Bro doesn't miss
An Amphisbaena is the two headed snake. They WERE IN DS1 though, so maybe they wanted to bring it back?
I think there's a freeze frame from the trailer that shows both snakes emerging from messmer's breasts
The idea that this DLC could be the thing to wrap up elden ring's entire story in a bow, like the ringed city did, is crazy and im so hyped if thats the case. I love how from software's DLCs sometimes become integral parts of the overall story, sometimes becoming the end to it
Maybe this is really dumb, but I kinda like the idea that all the rune towers are holding up the veil that covers the Land of Shadow, and that it actually resides *under* the gulf/sea between Altus and Limgrave/Caelid.
I personally love the idea that it's almost a pseudo-Atlantis, that the sea we see in the overworld is a powerful glamour overtop part of the continent that used to be there but has been foresaken to such a degree that it's been literally wiped off the map.
I think would explain why we have to teleport there, but how it is also a physical place that is as close to the actual Erdtree as it seems to be described.
I was also thinking of something similar. My theory is that it lies somewhere between the Lands Between and the Deeproot Depths. Hear me out.
My first reason stems from the image at 9:03, where we see a strong light above the large tree and the large gnarled roots on the edges of many of the cliffs. Zulie's video highlighted a second trunk entwined around the main tree. My theory is that they are in fact the rotten roots caused by Godwyn. These roots can also be seen snaking around the cliff edges as well. Since we know the rot is influencing the "overworld", as seen in the Altus Plateau, the Land of Shadows could be sitting somewhere underneath it and directly above Godwyn's corpse.
My next point alludes to Marika being Numen and how to get to the Land of Shadows. Numen runes can be found from Giant Ants in the Deeproot Depths, so, if we tie this with Marika being a Numen and being from the Land of Shadows, it could be possible that it exists somewhere close to Deeproot. To get to the Land of Shadows, one must strip themselves of their flesh (mortal shell, if you will) to enter. Since those who have died are supposed to be buried at the roots of the Erdtree to re-enter the cycle, it wouldn't be a leap to suggest that the Land of Shadows is tied to the roots of the Erdtree.
YES
Something to keep in mind about the fire of Mesmer, the Erdtree capitol is already covered in ash by the time you get there. He could’ve lit the tree on fire at some point, and was banished to the shadow world for it (sorry if you say this in the video, I haven’t finished it yet lol)
I’ve been checking your channel multiple times a day since the trailer release in anticipation of a breakdown. Once again, you have not disappointed. On behalf of myself and my fellow tarnished, we thank you.
Thank you for making a fromsoft lore channel that isn’t loud and going a mile a minute. I love the well paced videos with your soothing voice. Your videos are fantastic.
37:30 something I've noticed that no one seems to be talking about when it comes to the guy pulling the spined thing out of his eye. Look at his garb. Royal looking, most certainly heavily decorated. And, most importantly, a bright yellow... What have we not seen any reference to in Elden Ring that has been in every single other Souls game to date? I guarantee that guy is going to end up giving us a Xanthous throwback of some sort. Be it hat or garb.
He kind of reminded me of the gold mask in ways, but Goldie is dead so can't.
I think he may be Marikas father, note the painting of him with the woman next to him, she's holding her belly the same way pregnant women were often depicted in old paintings
2:18 Just noticed that the horseback boss with the boomerang looks super similar to the one boss way back in your Elden Ring boss art competition!
The OST with the decending violin-chord at 1:00 has me in a chokehold. I really hope they have a thematic boss fight for it.
YES! Since I first heard it in the trailer it has been echoing around in my head ever since. I’ve been rewatching the trailer exclusively to hear it. It will most likely be a boss theme.
Same here lol it caught my attention because it’s so epic-sounding
It has that bluesy major third over the vii b5 chord, super ear catching!
It will likely be Messmer's theme motif.
One thing that caught my eye in the trailer is that the moon in the background when the slug-face monster eats the face of the tarnished, seems to have the same patterns of the dark moon in the main game (which Vaati speculated in another video might hold Ranni's rune onto it). Its curious that this would also be visible in the Land of Shadow.
Also - Are the suspended pots you see at some point jar-people in the making?
Melina and Mesmer both left eye closed, Melina having burns on left hand and having dragon like claw on left eye and Mesmer having dragon like wing on left side of his back. I would say they are on same side. especially that Melina burns the erdtree, wasn't mentioned by morgott when he called on his siblings near the gate of the erdtree same goes to mesmer and the thing with snakes being viewed as traitors to the erdtree
Its also possible that Morgott doesn't know who Messmer is. If the Land of Shadows is a place hidden and separate from the Lands Between, then Messmer could have been sent there for his safety or for some other purpose. Messmer could have been afflicted by some kind of curse, similar to Malenia, which caused him to grow serpent-like features. This whole DLC has everybody's brain on overdrive.
@@Undeadsloth_0 all are possibilities however I focused on the similarities between him and melina since there are many
I keep thinking about how weird the gap between godrick's,miquella and malenia's thrones are,as if there was a supposed throne between them,if not it is very funny how the twins had their thrones a football field away from godrick's
@@randomperson093 i think it’s related to their siblings from same mother and father.
I think these videos remind me of literature class where the teacher tells me what everything represented and ties all of the links. I realize I only got a third of the picture.
The one key difference is this is wildly interesting, with great production values and wonderful narration.
If you notice the man trying to pull a gold spine out of his face, that spine looks very similar in material to the same weapon we get for defeating marika/radagon, (which could maybe tell us more about how and why certain gods become weapons when they die) and other than that the hunchback enemies around 1:45 of the trailer also are holding candles in the same shape as that golden spine which could indicate that maybe some of the golden order have been worshiping or memorializing that noble (as we see a catacombs door and graves in the background of that same shot)
Good catch 👍
Miquella gives me griffin vibes with all the talks about rebirth and bringing a new age of flourishing of life
Mesmer is Dracula, and this is a back door Castlevania sequel
Its probably been pointed out already by now, but a detail that hasnt left my mind since i noticed it days ago is that at the end were we see possibly-miquella raising his hand at the shadowy erdtree is that there the sap thats been flowing down in every other shot isnt there anymore .. i dont think its anythign significant but if i dont say it at least once it wouldnt leave my head xD
Anyway, great video and looking forward to more! :D
@@Ellemonadze Miquella is attempting to restore Godwyn using the player's power and something in the Shadow Realm in order to force Godwyn into being his elden lord
That is Miquella
I was waiting for you to drop a video of the trailer, fantastic job as always. Thank you, legend
Lore aside, i have no idea how Fromsoft keeps hitting a perfect 10/10 in regards to visually interesting environments.
vaati and smoughtown dropped their DLC discussion videos...
my weekend is complete...
Let’s gooo!!!! ❤
Actually…I wouldn’t be surprised if Mequella is both Messmer and Melina. He may be trapped there and he keeps helping you, even from the very beginning, he gives you torrent, spirit ashes ect. In the DLC trailer, he specifically states that he’s waiting for his law to return to him in the shadow world. I would not be surprised if he split himself into three Mesmer his body Melina is a projection that he needs to burn the mother tree and his soul, which is trapped in the shadow world. This also kind of makes sense because both Melina and Mesmer both have that same eye closed. And the person sitting in the cocoon clearly at least to me looks like has Mesmer’s arm.
Miquella bestowing secret favors on us from the beginning of the game gave me goosebumps and god does it have me even more excited to finally meet him! Does anyone know where the music is from that plays at 29:50 during this big scene in the video? It’s so soothing
Think I found it on that Epidemics website, it's Alert by DEX 1200.
I think I found it on that Epidemic site, it's Alert by DEX 1200
Pretty sure its Alert by DEX 1200
thank you!
About that comment of Kessler only having one functional eye. I’m making a SUPER long Hail Mary play here but imagine that Melina and Messmer are twins because Melina only has one eye that works(outside of when we see the frenzied flame ending) and they could possible share the smoldering butterfly item as their sign. Then again this take is so far out I’m very doubtful of what I just typed.
Also one more thing to add on Melina’s left eye there is a dragon wing and it’s pretty interesting that messmer has some type of dragon wing or armor he wears as well🤷♂️
Something I noticed lately is that some corpses in the main game (the ones you loot items from) look just as they were freshly burned, with dark red cracks around them, and they are often placed in areas with no apparent fire hazards. Maybe that is somehow related to Messmer, especially with that line about death in his flames to all stripped of grace?
Also, about death - his flames share the dark red hue and black smoke of Destined Death, but lack the golden sprites that Maliketh's black blade emits. Also Knights in the trailer appear to be wearing armor with the same color scheme as Malileth (black iron with gold accents).
Next, the smoldering butterflies and general association with flames were tied to Melina before, but now shifted to Messmer. But that's not the only thing they have in common - they both have their left eye closed, and the right discolored in some way. Messmer's is the eye of Dragon Communion. And Melina's is definitely stripped of grace, and she herself is burnt and bodiless, and has possibly been to the shadow realm. "Those stripped of grace of Gold shall all meet death, in the embrace of Messmer's flame".
And lastly, her eye opens when the world is burned with the flame of frenzy in the frenzied ending, as she promises to deliver Destined Death to our Tarnished.
Omg, what you are saying is that I have a chance to meet my maiden once again?!
Hmm that might have a connection to the crucified people that only scream at night at limgrave? Like torturing them from another dimension or something like that
this is awesome
It's simply delightful. Your voice and narrative, your detalistic explanation. Your art. Deep details! All of it fits amazing. Thank your for being so good with these videos productions and also for bringing joy for all with your passion, so well represented, for the game.
21:39 If you look at the frame where Messmer in the trailer shows his flame for the first time during the dialogue, it shows that the flame he is using is thorn magic, and what you said about the fell god having Messmer as its vessel kind of adds up but that's only speculation.
Very cool. Also, sorry for the wall of text.
On the theoretical point of the Land of Shadow being a possible afterlife in Elden Ring: Given the Celtic influences on the game, something to note is that of Celtic mythology's 'Otherworld'. Among being a place of gods and possibly the dead, Scathach, a warrior Queen, also resided there in the a place known, translated, as 'Land of Shadows'. To further point out this influence, Scathach also possessed and eventually gave away to her greatest student the Gae Bulg, the name of which translates to 'Mortal pain/death'. This kinda ties into what you pointed out how Marika makes use of everyone, and maybe why she's impaled. I also can't help but make Vlad III connections to Mesmer, especially with how Vald III was demonicized for his actions, and with his name of Dracule, a lot of dragon and Satan is thrown on him. Something I can't help but to point at the webbed wings and serpents all over Mesmer.
I'm very happy to get this amazing video so soon after the trailer but please take care of yourself and sleeeep Vaati
Aside from everything else, the music used in the trailer is so perfect for the tone (i assume) they're going for.
Final Comment:
I’m calling my shot:
I would love if Mequella is both Messmer and Melina. He may be trapped there via some attempt to achieve godhood like his mother (probably to break his curse). If you think about it, he keeps helping you, even from the very beginning. He gives you torrent, spirit ashes ect. In the DLC trailer, he specifically states that he’s waiting for his lord to return to him in the shadow world which he seems to favor you for that. I would not be surprised if he split himself into three (which he is already known to do), Messmer his warped body, probably through some blasphemous failed attempt to grow via dragons communion, Melina is a projection that he needs to burn the Erd tree to escape and his soul, which is trapped in the shadow world (the thing we see in the end of the trailer). This also kind of makes sense because both Melina and Messmer both have that same eye closed, and the person sitting in the cocoon clearly, at least to me looks like has Messmer’s arm even though we call it Mequella’s cocoon. Also, on a final note, the original collectors set included a statue of Melania, while this one is her brother…Messmer (Mequella).
In the DLC trailer, it is stated that we are following Mequella’s steps and where we start in the main game, it may be deliberate that it is called “The First Step”.
holy shit, when I first read that first sentence you wrote, I was thinking "nuh uh no way" but actually, that's a really cool idea and it actually sounds possible, if Marika/Radagon are the same person but exist as separate entities, Miquella could work that way as well
Fun thought.
Blackguard actually kinda mentions what feels like the truth.
"Maybe something went tits up with it. Maybe... it's been broke for a good long time."
It is "broke". The current Erdtree is just a godly illusion. You can tell because it doesn't have any locations to acquire its amber.
Im so excited to learn the lore behind that big line of birds
Just wanted to mention Helphens Steeple mentions a black tree and that it is a path for the new glorious dead. So what if this new Bkack tree is the Helphens Tree? The red glow around it could be similar to what I’m gonna call “The Fallens Grace” where those who side see that red grace could be that red glow near the highest point of the tree.
I'm curious to see if they're gonna have some Easter eggs in the lands between if you complete the DLC. For example, imagine starting a new file in which you defeat Radahn and Mohg, but not Malenia: what I would like to see is an interaction with her in which we tell her that we met Miquella and maybe give her some closure without having to kill her. It's like the other quests where changing one choice you make gives you a different outcome. I think it would be pretty cool. Maybe it can spawn a new quest in which we help her get to the shadow land to be with her brother. I know it's kind of improbable, but one can dream right?
This is going to be even more crazy journey for us, in this upcoming DLC here. The fact that the lore of this world will heavily focus upon Miquella will make this even more crazy. Also that crimson flamed guy with snakes around him, just looks so awesome. Messmer doesn't messes around, and you can tell by his boss fight gameplay.
I'm not seeing anyone talking about Goldmask here. We meet him at Altus, where war against the Erdtree broke out, in Leyndell where he teaches us about Marika/Radagon, then at Mountaintops where the giants have been impaled, then goes back to the Colosseum where people revelled at the snake ornamented warriors battling. He also says as much in the base game as Miquella (...) and has a similar husk-like form as base game Miquella. Calling it now, Goldmask will be a major NPC in this.
You might be onto something there.
He also dies at the end of his quest after understanding the nature of the erdtree and imperfection of the golden order.
So he is free of his body and could very well have traveled to the land of shadow to learn the truth
Messmer is the flagship boss of this DLC, obviously, but I strongly doubt he is the ultimate boss here, the same way Lady Maria was the flagship boss of the Bloodborne DLC, but the Orphan of Kos was the actual final boss (Also I'm sure his title of "Messmer the Impaler" will change during his bossfight, to become something like "Messmer the Elden Flame" or something like this, in his final phase).
I would bet either Miquela in his final godlike form is the ultimate boss, or either, more interestingly, I would bet Godwyn is, in an ultimate f'ed up form. Excited to see what's coming!
I always got the vibe that Radahn's helmet was evoking the mandibles of the falling star creatures, not a boar's tusks. They're angled to point inwards, not up. And since the falling star creatures are clearly linked to gravity magic, that always sees appropriate to me.
Great analysis, but one thing I'd like to point out: the pink butterflies exist in base game as well, in elphael you can find them in multiple areas near aeonian butterflies.