Vivisection: the cutting of or operation on a living animal usually for physiological or pathological investigation broadly : animal experimentation especially if considered to cause distress to the subject 2: minute or pitiless examination or criticism
But that is a strange thing. Getting a cut is painful. The cut healing is painful. Two different pains: one a sign of things gone wrong, the other a sign of things going right. Perhaps in the Christian outlook, pain is the sign that things as they are, are not, ultimately, in a right place. Pain can, too, be an indicator, as with the case of Job or of the man born blind in the gospel of John, or maybe be a sort of placeholder until the work of God comes in its fullest form. Sometimes pain may be a sign that this is a area where a child of God can step in and do an obvious good work pleasing to the Father of all healing. Is it then a bad thing? Yes... But since it leads to good, is it a good thing? Can a bad path to a good destination be considered a good path? Or can we say there is no pain when the New Heavens and New Earth come? Will our bodies still warn us of dangers when our relationship to danger is so different? Will we, in our resurrected bodies, still have to beware of pricking our thumbs? This question is nearly impossible to answer, as far as I know, any further than to say, "Pain as a tool of evil will be a thing of the past, as will evil be." (Musings from a man whose mother has fibromyalgia, whose brother has Grave's, whose father has suffered multiple heart attacks... Who has grappled with the concept of poison since a very early age. Take it as a point of view, not doctrine)
Wonderfully written, wonderfully read. Still a live debate today: does dominion over the animals imply their stewardship or their subjugation? Can we ever justify the cruel treatment of animals for the satisfaction of some passing intellectual curiosity or for the sake of a mere culinary delight? More importantly, can we do so without debasing ourselves in the process?
In Genesis 1:28 God commands man to "subdue" and "rule" the animals. Those words in Hebrew are actually very harsh and imply destruction and military conquest. Source: ua-cam.com/video/zsK1gcCI618/v-deo.html
@@CSLewisessays ... Yes, 'subdue' and 'rule'; is so very different to treating animals as these scientists have done and do. I think it is sheer torture that these animals endure. It is indeed dreadfully cruel - beyond belief, this grotesque practice - and it is stridently unethical. Evil, is the word, of course. I believe God holds dominion over us here in quite a similar way to which we now hold control over the animals He has placed us with. (Obviously God is infinitely mightier over us than we are over the beasts, but still the analogy holds) He chooses when we die - individually - alone... Anyone reading the Gospel as a true believer can be in no doubt whatsoever as to the ways and morals of our perfect Christ's beautiful nature. If we torture and harm animals - I have often thought - in our hour of death, so will it be with us... Heaven help these evil scientists. Justice will be done. We are to be good stewards - and to love what God saw as "good". "A robin redbreast in a cage fills all of heaven with a rage", as Wm Blake put it... I believe this must be so, as a Christian. It's flagrantly obvious, surely?
@@matthewstokes1608 Maybe. But they're not on the "same team". We may owe the animals something because we have things in common with them. But I think that our moral obligations to the animals are less than what we'll always owe another human. Nature wants us dead. Its in its nature to kill us eventually. The most we can hope from it is a reasonably comfortable life and ideally both a quick and painless death, and we should give that at least in turn.
@@CSLewisessays. That’s probably why Dr. Fauci was perfectly okay with experiments using live beagles and putting there heads in cages to be eaten and consumed by rats.
Have a look at how China remove fur from dogs before eating. Sorry in advance if you do. I actually say to you don’t watch it. I am a Christian and love CS Lewis. Especially this. He is pointing out that even though we have dominion over the earth, we are held responsible for what we do to the animals God created. 😢
It’s hard to even hear the words let alone watch it which I can’t subject myself to. I live by the very simple premise that I don’t do anything to anyone or anything that I would not want done to myself. Oddly though this does not apply to flies that drive me crazy buzzing into every window in my work room. I do try to show them a way out but they are pretty stupid and I do end up zapping them!
You can't. Not because I won't let you, but because UA-cam won't let you. The ads are automatically inserted by UA-cam also I don't have monetization enabled. If you want to watch ad free, install a browser adblocker like ublock origin. But if you still want to re-upload, go ahead. (P. S. you can get the audio book free from audible, use their free trial and purchase that book with the free credit offered. Link to the book in description)
Vivisection:
the cutting of or operation on a living animal usually for physiological or pathological investigation
broadly : animal experimentation especially if considered to cause distress to the subject
2: minute or pitiless examination or criticism
This video makes me ponder on the obsession with pets and the misplaced maternal instinct we see today with women and dogs.
Pain is evidence of something going wrong.
But that is a strange thing. Getting a cut is painful. The cut healing is painful. Two different pains: one a sign of things gone wrong, the other a sign of things going right.
Perhaps in the Christian outlook, pain is the sign that things as they are, are not, ultimately, in a right place. Pain can, too, be an indicator, as with the case of Job or of the man born blind in the gospel of John, or maybe be a sort of placeholder until the work of God comes in its fullest form. Sometimes pain may be a sign that this is a area where a child of God can step in and do an obvious good work pleasing to the Father of all healing. Is it then a bad thing? Yes... But since it leads to good, is it a good thing? Can a bad path to a good destination be considered a good path?
Or can we say there is no pain when the New Heavens and New Earth come? Will our bodies still warn us of dangers when our relationship to danger is so different? Will we, in our resurrected bodies, still have to beware of pricking our thumbs? This question is nearly impossible to answer, as far as I know, any further than to say, "Pain as a tool of evil will be a thing of the past, as will evil be."
(Musings from a man whose mother has fibromyalgia, whose brother has Grave's, whose father has suffered multiple heart attacks... Who has grappled with the concept of poison since a very early age. Take it as a point of view, not doctrine)
Thank you for the channel. I drop by every now and then
Wonderfully written, wonderfully read.
Still a live debate today: does dominion over the animals imply their stewardship or their subjugation? Can we ever justify the cruel treatment of animals for the satisfaction of some passing intellectual curiosity or for the sake of a mere culinary delight? More importantly, can we do so without debasing ourselves in the process?
In Genesis 1:28 God commands man to "subdue" and "rule" the animals. Those words in Hebrew are actually very harsh and imply destruction and military conquest. Source: ua-cam.com/video/zsK1gcCI618/v-deo.html
@@CSLewisessays ... Yes, 'subdue' and 'rule'; is so very different to treating animals as these scientists have done and do. I think it is sheer torture that these animals endure. It is indeed dreadfully cruel - beyond belief, this grotesque practice - and it is stridently unethical. Evil, is the word, of course.
I believe God holds dominion over us here in quite a similar way to which we now hold control over the animals He has placed us with. (Obviously God is infinitely mightier over us than we are over the beasts, but still the analogy holds) He chooses when we die - individually - alone... Anyone reading the Gospel as a true believer can be in no doubt whatsoever as to the ways and morals of our perfect Christ's beautiful nature. If we torture and harm animals - I have often thought - in our hour of death, so will it be with us... Heaven help these evil scientists. Justice will be done.
We are to be good stewards - and to love what God saw as "good".
"A robin redbreast in a cage fills all of heaven with a rage", as Wm Blake put it... I believe this must be so, as a Christian. It's flagrantly obvious, surely?
@@matthewstokes1608 Maybe. But they're not on the "same team". We may owe the animals something because we have things in common with them. But I think that our moral obligations to the animals are less than what we'll always owe another human.
Nature wants us dead. Its in its nature to kill us eventually. The most we can hope from it is a reasonably comfortable life and ideally both a quick and painless death, and we should give that at least in turn.
@@CSLewisessays. That’s probably why Dr. Fauci was perfectly okay with experiments using live beagles and putting there heads in cages to be eaten and consumed by rats.
I love and respect Lewis so much. He helped me in my faith so much
It seemed to me the pains of animals in the problem of pain it seemed to me he was in favor of it. This is a good response.
Beautiful
Have a look at how China remove fur from dogs before eating. Sorry in advance if you do. I actually say to you don’t watch it.
I am a Christian and love CS Lewis. Especially this. He is pointing out that even though we have dominion over the earth, we are held responsible for what we do to the animals God created. 😢
It’s hard to even hear the words let alone watch it which I can’t subject myself to. I live by the very simple premise that I don’t do anything to anyone or anything that I would not want done to myself. Oddly though this does not apply to flies that drive me crazy buzzing into every window in my work room. I do try to show them a way out but they are pretty stupid and I do end up zapping them!
Hello dear owner of this channel, can I compile all of these essays in 12 hour videos and repost them with no ads? Thank you
You can't. Not because I won't let you, but because UA-cam won't let you. The ads are automatically inserted by UA-cam also I don't have monetization enabled. If you want to watch ad free, install a browser adblocker like ublock origin. But if you still want to re-upload, go ahead.
(P. S. you can get the audio book free from audible, use their free trial and purchase that book with the free credit offered. Link to the book in description)
@@CSLewisessays Thank you very much, and thank you for your time and work.
i strongly agree with you father dear
Im sure God wasn't referring to vivisection whe he said we would rule over all living creatures.