Making a HALF DEAD CENTER and Why You Need One! - MSFN
Вставка
- Опубліковано 17 лип 2017
- What is a half dead center? and why do I need one? Watch to find out and make one for your Lathe! It’s a quick and easy lathe project and you will be glad you made one for your Shop! Please subscribe and click the notifications “bell” to get notified of newly released videos. Thanks for Watching!
Support:
Please Consider Supporting MSFN To Help Pay For Supplies Needed For Future Video Projects, Even a Small Contribution Goes a Long Way!
www.paypal.me/MSFN (Paypal Only)
goo.gl/1nmBdi (Paypal, Credit/Debit Card)
UA-cam: / makinsumthinfromnuthin
Twitter: / msfn_on_youtube
Instagram: / msfn_youtube
Instructables: www.instructables.com/member/M...
Business Inquiries:
email: makinsumthinfromnuthin@gmail.com - Навчання та стиль
Please Hit The LIKE 👍🏼 Button and Share This Video! It really does help the channel out a lot! Thanks for Watching!
You asked a question and answered it in 2 seconds.That's proper presentation!
Excellent dangerous ghetto milling machine xD
Excellent (chance for a) reuse of an old drillbit.
Hope you enjoyed, thanks for watching! xD
That "ghetto milling machine" is not unusual. I have a milling attachment for my lathe which works exactly the same way.
Pretty cool.
A very neat idea, something I had not even remotely thought of , congratulaions on the thinking of it
I certainly did not invent it by any means :)
that came out perfect! nicely done!
Thanks, I appreciate ya! :)
Spot on!
Hello Richy Rich
Another great Video. Again one of those.........."now why did I not think of that" superb ideas.
Yup, we also had this same problem couple of times and this is definitely a cool solution we going to copy and make us one.
Thanks for showing and sharing
ATB
aRM
Being new to machining myself I am glad my videos are helpful to some. Thanks aRM
Thats a nice tip---good stuff.....
I love it , I need to make one , Thanks man !
Glad you found it useful Shawn 😊🤗
Good video. I don't have a half centre, but I do have many long chuckable straight sided dead centres of different diameters for clearance issues as shown.
I will make a half centre and try it.
I'm sure a lot of folks just use live centres. Dead ones work fine provided you keep the speed down, and are certainly less intrusive.
Cheers Rob
I find these most useful when threading small diameter rod. I used one a while back when I threaded a bunch of 1/4-20 aluminum rod when I did my anodizing video and it worked great. I wasnt able to get the threading tool in and wanted to thread a long piece due to interference from the live center. I found no videos on the subject so thought I would put one out there~Rich
Yup and a good heavy synthetic oil or grease to make the mating surfaces not gaul.
Your video did inspire me. I had wanted to try one for quite some time but could not quite figure out how to make it live. After watching your video it was one of those times when you say why didn't I think of using a ball baring. Lol but after watching you make it and the good video you did on it I was able to copy it. The only difference is I made it out of 2 inch stock so it's just a little bigger. But yes sir you get all the credit so thanks for that. I will be glad to send you a picture but to be totally honest with you I'm not that good with a computer. My wife is in the medical field and works 7 on and 7 off so when she is on her off schedule I will get her help with that and send it to you. But keep up the good videos and thanks for taking the time to do it. It helps more than you can imagine.
I am glad your project turned out well, I will eventually make a larger one too. No biggie on the pic, spent time at the Lathe...not the computer! LOL
Very Nice Sir, Very Nice
Thanks Steve, its a simple little tool but is very useful :)
Well because I've been faced with the same situation I will now do something about it.... thanks for sharing!
Haven't we all! Thanks for watching! :)
Yes! But thank you for taking the time to make the video which has to complicate the whole project.
I find them them extremely useful....easy to make too :)
Awesome work. I just might make one.
EZ Peezy, just use steel that can be hardened. Apparently this is the week for tailstock centers videos from MSFN...the 3rd vid in as many days! LOL :)
As I said to Shaun I use my torch for most of my hardening. Just heat to bright cherry until it looses its magnetic properties and quench. Seems to work just fine.
Nice video!
thanks! :)
My shars Live center has an extended end which has served me well accessing the face and end of work piece with 5/8 ag60 tooling. 3:13 btw ;-)
I find the half centers quite handy to have around
Very awesome 👏You could probably turn a Morse taper and skip the drill chuck as well. Also , if you have a surface grinder it would be safer than the fly cutter although that was scary fun.
Yep, need to break out the taper attachment! I hear ya, no mill or surface grinder so living dangerously 😁
Excellent video, thank you very much for sharing this. I have a book by Harold Hall (workshop practice series #43) where he describes a half centre like yours but does not really elaborate on how to machine it. I like how you used the lathe to make the cutting off operation. BTW, Hall makes a point that is really is more of a 5/8 centre.. ☺ .. and to use silver steel and harden it, it being a dead centre. After all, a live half centre while being feasible to make, would be quite useless..
Thanks Stemer114, its a handy item to have in the arsenal :)
Rich, great video and will likely be one of my first projects. Thanks for the demo and the ideas. I will put them to use. Now, I know you are using Grade 8 bolts for these last couple of projects, and I would not have thought about using them. I have a couple of questions you can probably help me with. Are these bolts just case hardened, or are they hard all the way through. When you heat them to RED and quench them, they have enough free carbon to harden? At full hard, are they brittle? As an experiment using say a 3 inch long grade 8 bolt, heat it to red and quench in oil then put it in a vice and see how the bolt snaps. I also think with your setup, you could make projects from mild steel and case harden them to about any depth you like using either you casting furnace or your heat treat burner. Clickspring done this to make files. You should check it out if you have not already. Really fascinating stuff. Anyway, this video and your live center videos have got my synapses firing off at a pretty good rate. Thanks buddy for sharing.
Joe
The bolts I have been using lately were 1" and 1.125" diameter bolts my scrapyard friend gave me. A bit too large to do a vise "snap test". Grade 8 is a medium carbon alloy steel. These bolts are quenched and tempered to achieve toughness or "strength" and not necessarily "hardness" although hardness is just a byproduct of the quenching process. Since the bolt grades relate to tensile strength rather than surface hardness, they will be through hardened to meet the grade. Surface hardening makes little difference to tensile strength so I know they are not case hardened. The hardness varies as the outside is harder than the core due to the fact that the core cools more slowly. Quenching cools the surface very quickly and the inner material more slowly so some of the crystalline structure will not be locked in the initial quenched state. As you increase the cross section or bolt diameter....it will reach a size where the core will stay soft by virtue of slow cooling. You can see in my video on the bullnose center or the tool post nut the difference in the outer 1/4" vs the center very clearly when the bolt was faced.
Grade 8 has a tensile strength rating of 150,000 psi vs a Grade 2 bolt of the same size that is just 60,000 so there is a decent amount of carbon that I can use to my advantage for these little lathe projects requiring hardening since they are less mass than the 1.125 bolt once turned down. Grade 8 has 0.28 - 0.55% carbon depending on manufacturer. Of course proper O1 Tool Steel would be optimum for stuff like this but I try to avoid buying stuff and use recycled stuff when possible cause I am cheap. LOL :)
I never got much interested in case hardening, the process seems painful.....and yes I have watched Clickspring's file video, he rocks! :)
yes I use the half dead center a good tool
Saved me many times
Hey Rich! I've been a big fan of yours for quite a while now, I started watching when I found your aluminum casting videos. What I was hoping you could try out is the lost foam casting again. I remember when you made the handles and the finish wasn't all that great, I would like for you to try the lost foam casting again but this time try and use the insulation foam board material. It seems to have a smoother finish and I am curious as to how it would turn out. Also it has been a while since you've done any casting and that is my favorite. (Don't get me wrong though I love watching the lathe work as well). Hope you have a great time. Best wishes from Pennsylvania, Wade.
Hi Wade! Yes, its been a while since a casting video, I just havent had much need lately to fire up the furnace but I do plan on doing some aluminum and brass melting videos soon so hang in there! I will see if I can round up some insulation board from local construction sites and give it a whirl :)
Makin Sumthin From Nuthin I will be looking forward to them!
Thank you, I've learned a lot from that! I'm very new at using my mill and lathe and not hardened anything yet, just been practicing with mild steel. Cheers
Mild steel wont harden regardless of what you do to it, it doesnt contain enough carbon. I used a chunk of a Grade 8 bolt for this center, tool steel would be the best to use. Many sources for carbon steel that will harden that wont break the bank! Thanks for Watching!
Case hardening works on mild steel !
Yes, I do stand corrected but have seen many struggle with that process. I like steel that is easy to harden...I did mis-speak in that statement so thanks for pointing that out 👍🏼
I generally(for smaller items) just use the torch. Heat it cherry until it looses it's magnetic properties and quench. Seems to work fine.
I have an oxy set, but a forge is much more entertaining :-)
Not sure what oil you quenched in, but it can often benefit from heating it(the oil) to around 130f-140f before quenching. That’ll prevent a “vapor jacket” from forming around the part and prevent the oil from actually contacting and cooling the part. That being said, you very well could have done this off camera or used an engineered quench oil that doesn’t need heated. If you didn’t or weren’t aware of it, it’s real easy. I use a hot plate and a thermometer that goes down into the oil. Those IR laser thermometers work okay too. If you don’t want to deal with a hot plate you can stick a piece of scrap metal in the fire for a few and then dip it in the oil until it’s up to temp.
Lastly, it looks like you might have tempered the tip of the center too high. It looks a lot darker than the straw color on the rest of the piece. I could be completely wrong though. I often am and am reminded of it frequently by my wife. Great video.
Used motor oil I had laying around. Good advice on the oil temp, I shoulda heated up a sacrificial piece and dropped it in first. Yep, tipped thins out and probly caught a bit more heat but is working fine. Thanks for the good input ~ Richard
Well done. Great idea. I just recently figured out what those were made for while playing with my dividing head tailstock, which includes a center that is cut out in the same fashion. On a completely different topic, I like your production techniques. I'd like to learn to balance out the background music, overdubbing, and live sound recording as well as you do it here. Sorry, got a little nerdy there...
Thanks Rick, short reply.....am down in the Florida Keys.....fishing vacation with my brothers 😊
Nice! Enjoy the family time, and catch one for me!
Things that make ya go "DOH! *smack* ARRGH! I had live center tunnel vision. Bad Grouchy.
I do have a video on a live bull nose center I made. Thanks for dropping by Eddie 👍🏼
Best is to use live center, [no worries of seizing up]...your narrow longer carbide, [second tool you show] works with a longer live center, looks like yours was much longer many years ago. Dead center is used for slow running, mostly in grinding...and for accuracy.
I cant argue with you at all on all points, except when you cant get a tool in otherwise, for that it works well ~ Richard
Understand but if I was you is to take the life center apart and make a new longer center...at least then you're a step ahead.
That may be a project in the future, always looking to improve my tooling!
In my book using a dead center on the lathe is not a improvement.
Sweet lathe my friend. It looks like you have a cross apron feed. Not a common thing. I eventually made a couple years ago when an old master said "Why don't ya just ? ? ? of course the light came on. Saving that 1/2 to 3/4 in adds up in the long run.
Thanks, I love the lathe...it doesnt like parting steel tho so bought a horizontal bandsaw! :)
And it looks like a good sturdy piece as well. It is great having the toys eh my friend.
I had a blade type insert style parting tool that worked very well. The insert and holder I never priced as no need, not my money eh.It had a 1/8 kerf. that worked just fine in all kinds of hard shaft all the way down to cold rolled. Ya can never have enough tooling bud !
Tomoko's Enterprize what?
Hi, In regards to ? my friend.
Perhaps I missed it somewhere, but why cut a flat?
yes I have 2 and Im using regular
They are a livesaver at times :)
Why are you using at 2:42 that tool paralel to the bedplate? It's not better in transversal position, like the other tools that you used... without removing the tailstock?
I am not following your question, possibly my inexperience in terminology...sry
Oh, maybe could be my not so good english. It's ok.
h0useisafeeling. I was wondering that too.Must have been quicker or easier.
that grade 5 bolt was already ~30 rockwell C, not necessary to re harden and temper, not to mention it looks as if you tempered it to 600-700F, so it would be softer than it was originally. that is, unless you annealed it prior to machining.
good video though and good idea, think i may try this.
sorry - realized you used grade 8's - those are ~36 rockwell C.
They come in handy, use mine often :)
Schroedinger's centre?
Did you make your fly cutter that was used in this video ? Or was it purchased elsewhere. Mad the live bullnose center and it will come in handy. Now to the half dead center next. I have a milling vice for the South Ben and will be able to use it to make it but not a fly cutter.
I got 2 or 3 flycutters in some tooling I got when I first got the lathe so no didnt make it. I love the bull nose center I made for bores up to 1", works great. If you make a half center it must be steel you can harden or it wont last long. I used a milling cutter chucked up for milling in the vid "Making replacement parts for an Atlas Lathe" if ya care to look. I dont own a milling vise for my Lathe...too expensive!
Would love to see the live center you made if my vid inspired you to make one, shoot me a pic 😊 makinsumthinfromnuthin@gmail.com
Hmm, would tungsten carbide be a nearly perfect material for this? (Other than the fact it would need to be ground instead of cut)
Absolutely, if you have the ability to grind it as you stated. This is just a cheap way to make something if in a pinch :)
@@MakinSumthinFromNuthin just looked to see if they were available on fleabay, and seeing tungsten carbide tipped half dead centers for $20 makes me wonder if they are Cheddar or Gouda grade chinesium
Banggood has them cheaper than $20, they sent me one after my video was put up, guaranteed chinese. It works ok, but the 60 degree cone is a bit too large for my liking. I find the half dead center useful when single point threading small stock to support the work, especially 1/4-20
I wouldn't use any steel on dead or half dead centers anymore. Carbide 💪
A 5/8" end mill shank, braze it to your morse taper and grind the center. And Use extreme pressure grease on the center not oil and you're golden
At 6:15 is that round fire brick in your forge? Doesn’t look like kaewool coated in refractory cement. I’m having to redo mine about every 60 days and I’d like to find something like you have.
Its plaster of paris & sand (50/50) in that little forge, cheap enough to redo when needed
Ah yes, also known as the Schrodinger's Center.
Interesting, thanks for sharing!
I see what you did there!
Why not make it a proper one with a Morse taper?
not round after that sideways plunge in oil