I've done a good bit of lithium battery recovery. I use more or less the same method. Start with very little current and bring them up gently til they reach about 3 volts per cell. Then I can charge at proper charge currents. I think your bike has a brushed motor. It sounds brushed. I wonder what it would do on a good axial flux brushless motor. I have a Motenergy 3031-001. One of these days it will see use and when it does, it will be something like 60-80kw. It should make a good powerplant for something. First I need to finish up my Zap scooter. It was doing great with a few glitches to work out when my dual controllers died. It's a control electronics failure. They are going back this week to get replaced.
@@InvokePerformance Are you sure it's an AC motor and not BLDC? AC usually means some form of induction motor. It's possibly PMAC which despite the name "Permanent Magnet AC" Isn't really anything other than a BLDC motor with a different way to detect commutation. **** Interesting...6 speed transmission. That does change the gear ratio so that you can dig in for acceleration or for top speed. A transmission adds frictional losses...which isn't so great. I've done a fair bit of searching for small transmissions that are modular to duplicate this sort of setup. I'd like to try it out as all I do so far is fixed gear ratios. I choose a ratio mostly for decent acceleration and that means I lose a bit of top speed. I'd rather have good acceleration and wheel torque and then get more top speed with higher pack voltage.
@@de-bodgery to your point it’s a PMAC motor made by Parker gvm with resolver feedback to a sevcon size 6 controller. The company that made this bike was called brammo which is now out of business.
@@InvokePerformance Nothing wrong with SEVCON controllers, just bloody expensive and getting the software and programmer is bloody expensive too. I've tried to avoid them because of the significant cost. However, since you have one, you should get the programmer for it and the software so you can tweak the settings for your bike. It's not hard to switch a PMAC over to BLDC by adding halls to it instead of using the resolver. Same for BLDC, add an optical resolver and now it's PMAC.
There are 36 cells in each battery in a 4s9p configuration. so you revived them from 2,5V per cell. Cells are 10Ah each. So, 4x7 cells in series makes 28s or 110V nominal at 9p or 7x90 for 630Ah (9.8KWh).
BPM 15/90 lithium-ion (NCM Chemistry), 9.31 kWh (nominal) 10.2 kWh (max), 1500 cycles to 80% capacity(100% DOD), level 1 maximum charging time: 8 hours (0-99% SoC, no cell imbalances), level 2 maximum charging time: 3.5 hours (0-99% SoC, no cell imbalances), every 10 minutes of level 2 charging adds up to 5 miles of range.
I have the same bike with the same problem. What do you think is the minimum voltage in each battery that you need so that the level one charger will pick it up? Im slowly charging them with a lithium charger but it will only get them to 12.5 volts.
@@InvokePerformance I unhooked each cell to do them seperatly. I am just using an Optimate Lithium charger. The charger will only take them to 12.5v. I think I have to find one of those razor scooter chargers to get it higher. I found your video on the Brammo forum site.
@@tedsweet1404 yes you will need to get them a little bit higher so a razor scooter charger is the best way that way then you can charge them in groups
@@InvokePerformance you figure I can charge the lower 3 together with the 14v razor scooter charger? They look like a total pain in the butt to seperate.
@@tedsweet1404 so to charge the lower three you will need a 48v charger(15v x 3=45v) then the top 4 you will need 60v charger (15 x 4=60v). Note you will need to closely monitor to ensure you unplug at the correct voltages to ensure you don’t over charge the batteries. The max is 15.6 per module any higher will destroy them. Also make sure they are perfectly balanced before you begin the combined charging process.
Hello. Why is it necessary to do the slow manual charging one cell at a time please? Can you start with the 30 V charger on the entire battery at once?
Awesome job, buddy! Being a Victory tech I have always been interested in Brammo but never got hold of one. Hopefully some day. By the way, I think Polaris holds the rights to Brammo so you might be able to get some parts that way.
Great work mate, love it when lodgic solves a challenge
One of these ran around my neighborhood a lot several years ago, thought it was a game changer on looks alone.
Awesome video for some reason no one is making any content on these bike lov them....will be waiting for new videos
Nice one, thank you for clarification and explanation of the process!
I've done a good bit of lithium battery recovery. I use more or less the same method. Start with very little current and bring them up gently til they reach about 3 volts per cell. Then I can charge at proper charge currents.
I think your bike has a brushed motor. It sounds brushed. I wonder what it would do on a good axial flux brushless motor. I have a Motenergy 3031-001. One of these days it will see use and when it does, it will be something like 60-80kw. It should make a good powerplant for something. First I need to finish up my Zap scooter. It was doing great with a few glitches to work out when my dual controllers died. It's a control electronics failure. They are going back this week to get replaced.
This bike does sound unique mainly because it has a 6speed manual gear box but it is a AC motor.
@@InvokePerformance Are you sure it's an AC motor and not BLDC? AC usually means some form of induction motor. It's possibly PMAC which despite the name "Permanent Magnet AC" Isn't really anything other than a BLDC motor with a different way to detect commutation.
****
Interesting...6 speed transmission. That does change the gear ratio so that you can dig in for acceleration or for top speed. A transmission adds frictional losses...which isn't so great. I've done a fair bit of searching for small transmissions that are modular to duplicate this sort of setup. I'd like to try it out as all I do so far is fixed gear ratios. I choose a ratio mostly for decent acceleration and that means I lose a bit of top speed. I'd rather have good acceleration and wheel torque and then get more top speed with higher pack voltage.
@@de-bodgery to your point it’s a PMAC motor made by Parker gvm with resolver feedback to a sevcon size 6 controller. The company that made this bike was called brammo which is now out of business.
@@de-bodgery store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=brammo
@@InvokePerformance Nothing wrong with SEVCON controllers, just bloody expensive and getting the software and programmer is bloody expensive too. I've tried to avoid them because of the significant cost. However, since you have one, you should get the programmer for it and the software so you can tweak the settings for your bike. It's not hard to switch a PMAC over to BLDC by adding halls to it instead of using the resolver. Same for BLDC, add an optical resolver and now it's PMAC.
Nice work! I hope to find a similar case Brammo in the future.
Wow. Excellent work. What a brain. And you got a Victory Impulse for $2k plus all this brainwork! Awesome
Dam that’s clean from northern cali baby brah
Thanks brah she is a beast for sure!
There are 36 cells in each battery in a 4s9p configuration. so you revived them from 2,5V per cell.
Cells are 10Ah each. So, 4x7 cells in series makes 28s or 110V nominal at 9p or 7x90 for 630Ah (9.8KWh).
your math is correct.
BPM 15/90 lithium-ion (NCM Chemistry), 9.31 kWh (nominal) 10.2 kWh (max), 1500 cycles to 80% capacity(100% DOD), level 1 maximum charging time: 8 hours (0-99% SoC, no cell imbalances), level 2 maximum charging time: 3.5 hours (0-99% SoC, no cell imbalances), every 10 minutes of level 2 charging adds up to 5 miles of range.
Nice vid brother can't wait to see the it's hard to believe that things faster than the zero definitely curious to see it
Slim Princess yes it’s way faster than my old DS that motor was around 34kw this one I rated at 54kw with a bigger battery
@@InvokePerformance Nice so I can't wait to see you ride that thing I want to see it that has gears as well right
Great content, thanks for the information. I’m sure it will be useful to a lot of people.
Concrats on the reanimation :)
I have the same bike with the same problem. What do you think is the minimum voltage in each battery that you need so that the level one charger will pick it up? Im slowly charging them with a lithium charger but it will only get them to 12.5 volts.
I will try to get them to at least 14 V .15v be the best option if possible. What is your charging set up
@@InvokePerformance I unhooked each cell to do them seperatly. I am just using an Optimate Lithium charger. The charger will only take them to 12.5v. I think I have to find one of those razor scooter chargers to get it higher. I found your video on the Brammo forum site.
@@tedsweet1404 yes you will need to get them a little bit higher so a razor scooter charger is the best way that way then you can charge them in groups
@@InvokePerformance you figure I can charge the lower 3 together with the 14v razor scooter charger? They look like a total pain in the butt to seperate.
@@tedsweet1404 so to charge the lower three you will need a 48v charger(15v x 3=45v) then the top 4 you will need 60v charger (15 x 4=60v). Note you will need to closely monitor to ensure you unplug at the correct voltages to ensure you don’t over charge the batteries. The max is 15.6 per module any higher will destroy them. Also make sure they are perfectly balanced before you begin the combined charging process.
So awesome!
Hello. Why is it necessary to do the slow manual charging one cell at a time please? Can you start with the 30 V charger on the entire battery at once?
Awesome job, buddy! Being a Victory tech I have always been interested in Brammo but never got hold of one. Hopefully some day. By the way, I think Polaris holds the rights to Brammo so you might be able to get some parts that way.
Good to know thanks!!
@@InvokePerformance a nice bike what is the battery capacity/range? 😎👍
Will it do the same for a 72 volt lithium battery?
Was there a short?...I'm getting a positive voltage from negative and frame with multimeter?
I’m not sure what you mean by short? The batteries should be fully isolated
connect the lights! the are needed for balancing the batteries.
Everything is connected
where did you buy this brammo? :)
i bought it used from a guy off the www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/
@@InvokePerformance thanks and keep these good videos coming ;)
You rock I'd love to pick your brain I have 2 Chinese electric motorcycles that aren't doing what they are supposed to lol
sure thing send me a direct message on my Instagram invoke performace and i will see if i can help
Just found a Facebook market add for a bike like this thinking about picking it up worst case I'll just build another battery.
I would go for it!!
Sup man I have a electric bike that I need to come back life I need your help it’s A Z6
Wow