Stringing on the Prusa XL - 5 Things That Worked and 3 Things That Did NOT Help!
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- Опубліковано 5 січ 2024
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First of all, thank you for your content. As an owner of a XL 5-head, you're one of the only YT'rs dropping consistent and legitimate content on the XL, so thank you!
I received my 5-head XL back in November, "fully-assembled" (haha) and honestly, it was wonderful out of the box. I am horrified to hear that there have been so many people who've had bad experiences, and I find myself extremely lucky. I had actually considered almost cancelling my order but I decided to commit as I know Prusa and it's community have resolved nearly all major issues (I had and hated my MMU2S on my MK3S).
I have been fortunate enough to not have 98% of the issues you have had. Honestly I've only had 1 failure and it was my fault (bad slicing) but have had only mild stringing. I wish I could offer the community anything more than that, but I do my best to keep my filament stored in a "dry box", it's a weather sealed tupperware loaded with dedicated, and occasionally dry an older filament in a sunlu dryer.
My biggest issues with the printer in gerenal are:
1. The bowden system can be a pain when loading TPU or when a filament breaks in the tube. It's workable but just a pain in the butt. I understand it is a necessary evil of having 5-tool heads so just keep on trucking.
2. Multi Nozzle size printing is not a thing... YET.. I have high hopes this will come in a future Firmware/Slicer release, we're early adopters so I'm just going to be patient but there's no reason to believe that it won't be developed in the near future.
3. This is more just me still learning but mitigating the wipe tower into the infill is just something I haven't been able to figure out yet, that as well as multi-material printing; as in using PETG as supports for a PLA print. There is just no good documentation/guidance out there right now. I'd LOVE to hear/see if you've done any of this!
4. The XL is not for the feint of heart to use it's full potential. Price point aside, understanding 0.6 vs. 0.4 capabilities, input shaping vs not, and getting creative with the large size and the number of parts as well as orientation of parts, there's a LOT to digest, years of experience has helped me to do some really fun stuff, but I have so much more I need and want to learn!
Honesly that's it. I know it's not a perfect printer, but legit... name one!? It doesn't exist, there will always be compromises, we have to choose/purchase based on our own personal needs/wants/use cases and move from there. The market is super-saturated with printers these days, I have personally owned 9 printers across 6 brands. I stick with Prusa for the dependability and community that always pull through! Bottom line, I REALLY LOVE this printer and can't wait to see what the future holds!
Once again, thank you VERY much for the content & shorts, they are very helpful. You're literally the only YT channel I have notifications enabled for! Happy new year and I look forward to sharing more of your XL adventures!
P.S. I have purchased 5 new 0.4mm nozzles, but I'm having too much fun with the 0.6, I had great success on first ever TPU prints, it was really easy and only mild stringing! One of these days, I'll make the swap to the 0.6.
My experience is very similar to yours! I've just got a set of 0.8, 1.0, 1.2 CHT nozzles. I am curious how they work. Actually I've got E3D nozzle adapter for each tool next to my set of 0.4 and 0.6. I am even trying to combine them in a single print.
That's great to hear that you have had such a great experience. I think I have stuck with it because I love my other Prusa printers. And I've also seen good results on facebook. I feel like it has such potential.
My Bambu is very reliable but has limitations. Multi color prints take a very long time and of course creates much more waste.
So I'm really ready to have the XL printing well. Thanks so much for your support!
I'd say go ahead and buy a couple filament dryers. Using the Bambu's bed is a nice stopgap, but dedicated filament dryers can dry the filament faster and won't tie up a printer. In addition, I'm willing to bet that dry filament will improve your prints even on other printers, as well as improve reliability. Drying filament is something that is pretty useful for running a 3D printing business, so I think having dedicated filament dryers would be worth it.
Agree since you live in a humid area.
There's been a few models recently released that would work for multiple spools (the Sunlu Filadryer S4), and I think there are even more on the horizon; now is actually a pretty good time to be looking at one.
I 2nd this advice. Filament dryers, especially ones that have hot air circulation such as those from Eibos, the Sunlu S2 or the new Sunlu S4, will be so much better and dry faster than using your Bambu as a dryer. Plus you can print directly from most dryers if you wanted to. I do that all the time when printing pretty much anything besides PLA.
Just a word of warning if you were thinking of buying the Eibos Cyclopes dryer... the fan on it is loud and it has caused issues for me and others with melting filament because the fan blows right on the bottom of the spools. I heavily modified mine to quiet it down and fix the melting issue. I still, very occasionally, get some deformation on the filament if I leave a spool in it that isn't rotating. As in, I print from the dryer, but the print ends while I'm at work. The spool not turning can lead to deformed filament on the bottom of the spool. Although, it no longer straight up melts like it did when I first got it. They have a new one coming out soon called the Polyphemus that seems to solve most of the issues with the Cyclopes.
I agree. It takes 12 hours to dry on the Bambu! I'd rather be printing. I'm just running out of space. But I'm sure they wouldn't take up too much space. Thank you!
My thoughts on the nozzle seals is that they should just touch the nozzle when it is parked. Reason is to keep the seal parallel with the nozzle tip. I do this by lowering the seal all the way down, putting the toolhead on, and then raising the seal till you can't see light between the nozzle and seal. Then one more turn to press it against the nozzle.
I can't say it solves any problems as this is how I did it from the start and haven't had major stringing problems. It is at least a procedure to get the same results every time.
This seems like an underrated solution. If the seal isn't good (completely flat), then the wipe tower can only do so much.
Makes sense! Thanks!
I have one of the latest (received end of December 2023) with the 0.4 nozzles and I don't have stringing issues.
Great to hear! Thank you!
Thanks for documenting everything that worked and what didn't. I wonder if ambient temperature and humidity play a role too, it might explain the differences you are seeing to others? I was fingers crossed for 4mm, but it's still too messy.
It's possible. Also I may try out more Prusament brand filament. Just don't like how long it takes to get it. Thanks!
I was one of the people telling you to try a 0.4mm nozzle as it would solve all of your problems.
I was wrong it seems.
Thank you for sticking up with it. I want to buy a XL based in your experience. You basically debugged it and gave me confidence that it’s not a lemon.
I think the .4 is good for detailed prints. I'll try it again for something else. Thanks so much!
I noticed when looking at the benchy, when sliced with the two colors, some of the worst spots for blobs and stringing are spots where the nozzle basically just puts a dot of filament. So it’s just not putting enough to be consistent and reliable.
So it’s important to remember the benchy isn’t designed to be the benchmark of a printer being set up right, it’s meant to be a challenging print to benchmark how the printer does in challenging circumstances.
Obviously this doesn’t mean I think bad benchys are good. But just that you can have imperfect benchys and perfect “real” prints
That's a good point. And I have been able to get some decent single or simple prints. I think I like the benchy because it's pretty fast and easy to compare. I'll see how other prints do. Thanks!
Thank you again.
I have been seeing the success stories on the internet increase with every one of those 11 incremental updates. That many updates to the system in such a short period of time truly demonstrates how Prusa pushed this product out way too soon.
I will keep my pre-order (won't ship until mid this year).
I have bookmarked this video in my "review when I get printer" bookmarks.
Yeah and those 11 updates were just since I have had it. I'm sure if you've had the printer longer, there were even more. I think keeping the pre-order until they have things a little more figured out is a great idea. Thanks for your support!
Got my 2 head pre-order early
Really great video! For drying filament, have a look at the Sunlu 4 roll filament dryer. That way you won't be tying up a printer to dry filament.
I agree. Takes way too long. I'll check it out. Thanks!
Thank you thank you thank you for trying the filament drying option! I really appreciate you taking the time to try it. I did the final payment for my 5 toolhead. Now I just gotta wait for it to ship! You earned a sub. :)
How exciting! Hope you get it quick! Thanks for your support!
I like hearing your updates with the XL. I have the 5 tool semi-assembled version and I had some stinging early on that got mostly resolved with drying. I had a food dehydrator and designed a wall for fitting filament spools. I have recently purchased a Sunlu Filadryer S4 so I can dry multiple spools simultaneously. I switched to all 0.4mm nozzles mostly because it shows details better, but I noticed a further improvement in stringing after that. Right now I do not see any stringing issues and i am mostly happy.
That's so great to hear! Thank you!
I also had some issues with stringing and blobs with my dual-head semi-assembled XL, but the new updates and a switch to 0.4mm nozzles fixed those. Now I have no stringing at all with PLA, the dual-color benchy is absolutely perfect.
I had minimal stringing with PETG, which I fixed by adding brushes (look for „XL Nozzle Scrubber brush“ on Printables).
So you are absolutely right, the experiences seem to be pretty different from machine to machine.
I have some brushes coming in soon that I will try. And I feel like on large prints, the stringing is less obvious too. Glad to hear it's working so well for you now. Thanks!
Love your content coverage on the XL. I have a 5 Tool Head XL on Pre-Order and am looking forward to hitting the ground running when it arrives thanks to all of the super valuable experiences you have had and have shared. Hopefully by the time I get my printer ( maybe June 2024) a ton of the links will have been worked out and it will just read my mind and print like a dream. LOL! Keep up the GREAT content and know it is so appreciated by our community! Happy New Year!
Haha I like that! Maybe it can read your mind. It should by then! Yeah things have improved so I am hopeful again. Thanks so much!
As @hylitedFx shared, I too am thankful for your consistent and useful XL content, especially as I waited for mine to be delivered. I just completed the build of my semi-assembled XL-5 and am running my first 4 color print now with the 0.4 nozzles provided with the printer. So far everything looks good, however, if that changes, I will let this group know.
So glad you got it and are happy with it! What types of prints have you been running? Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting My first, and only print at this point, was a 4-color sign for my shop. It turned out fantastic! This is my first multi-color/material printer, and I wasn't expecting it until late Spring. When I finalized my XL preorder with Prusa in mid-December, two days later I received an email from DHL that it was being delivered in a week! Now I am behind with working on some new products that can be printed in multiple colors. 🙂
@@agomerd When did you place your order? I'm interested to know how far off mine is; order place April 2023.
I really appreciate all the work you’ve done and posted here. FWIW I got my XL-5T last week, built it, and I’ve been running some large multi-color prints in PLA and mixed PETG+TPU. Mine came with 0.4mm nozzles, which is fine with me; on the Mk3 I’ve never seen great results from 0.6mm nozzles.
The firmware for post-build checks is just horrible. I had fans failing their check even though they were spinning fine; I needed to loosen screws holding them to the tool head to make it pass. I had a nozzle temp check fail because it simply never started heating; I needed to rerun the test. The dock position calibration failed repeatedly for no discernible reason. Nothing was actually wrong with the printer! It was just badly programmed tests.
Since then, however, the printer has been running great. I’m using the same 5.1.2 firmware and 2.7.1 slicer. I didn’t use any gcode that came with the printer but I sliced my models with factory presets for 0.4mm nozzle and input shaper (0.2mm layer height, “speed” preset). No print failures, no tool change failures, only the tiniest wisps of stringing, no blobs or other quality defects. I’ve been mostly using Cinderwing3D’s multicolor dragons for tests and they’re coming out just great.
Yeah when the calibration takes an hour, it's very frustrating when weird things fail and then pass the next time. Really made me wonder if I had build issues or not! I'm glad you finally got it working so well! That's really great to hear! Thank you!
I have had my 5T for a little over 2 months now. Semi-assembled, took s few hours to complete. I was a day-one pre-order. Took 6 weeks from invoice payment to shipping. Got the heads in one shipment then the rest a few days later (DHL held it pending tax payment even though I paid immediately). Print quality was okay. I switched to 0.4mm nozzles as soon as possible though because most of my needs are not with the larger build volume, but with multi-color. Printing multi-color production parts on my Bambu X1C is a huge PITA, not just because of the massive amount of waste, but also the time factor. And then because I don't have access to the rear of the X1 line, removal of the built-up waste is torture. Compared to the XL, the time and waste difference is not even in the same ball park. The XL flies through color changes in a few seconds compared with around a minute on the Bambu. Multiply that by many hundreds or thousands of tool changes. And the XL prime tower is tiny compared to the X1 waste bucket. I am very sorry to see that your switching to 0.4mm nozzles did not do the trick. What's your humidity like? Rather than a filament dryer, a food dehydrator may be a better choice. They have a larger capacity and are often cheaper. Personally, I use a lab oven because I also use it to anneal parts. But the cost was substantially more than anything else - I needed a very accurate oven for the annealing so it serves multiple purposes. The only other small issue I have with the XL is the motor noise during certain movements. It's a loud printer and I have quieted it down a lot by applying noise-reduction stickers to the larger metal plates on the bottom and sides. The stickers are made to deaden the sound in vehicles - they're sold in 12-inch square pieces and are basically a rubber type of sheet with adhesive on one side and foil on the other. I actually put these on the X1C printers too and it helps a lot.
That's really interesting to hear your comparison between the Bambu and the XL. I am having more reliable prints on my Bambu. But like you, the waste and the time are crazy! I had something that would take 21 hours on the Bambu and waste the same amount of filament as the print. But on the XL, it took 9 hours and the prime tower was very minimal. And it turned out great.
Yes I think I'll need to invest in some other way to dry/dehydrate filament. Thank you!
@@tada3dprinting I hesitated with the filament dryers for years because I did not think I had a problem. But once I started drying out certain filaments I understood. Even on some that do not seem particularly prone to moisture absorption like PETG, they benefited greatly with drying. And Bambu filament arrives already wet so they do not do a great job with even trying to keep it dry for shipping (they specifically state to dry their filaments before printing). The problem with the filament dryers is that they are mostly cheap, non-UL-listed and have questionable safety. Also, none of them go up to what they need to dry filaments like nylon and polycarbonate. Even the food dehydrators don't get hot enough. That is why I went with a lab oven. If your home's oven can go low enough you might want to start with that. The oven I got was from a scientific company but they have decent ones on Amazon for about $350. If you are interested, do a search for "lab forced air oven" and make sure you are getting a model with a fan and not a gravity oven.
Another great video! Nice to finally put a face to the voice. Between your videos and videos from other channels, I've decided to not get into MMU or any multi-color/material printing yet. It doesn't make sense to me to have that much filament waste when one could simply print in any filament and then paint over it to get color. I don't see any use cases for what I would be printing or doing with my prints that needs that multi color functionality. And I'd rather waste less money and material and just do the priming and painting if I need to. I'll certainly be paying attention to how things go with future development, and see how it works with your channel here.
I can understand. Since the time that I placed the pre-order, I had been imagining that all of my miniatures would be super easy to produce if I had multicolor. But now that I have some options I am having to decide if a print takes 4 or 5 times as long and wastes so much filament, is it really better? Some things look better to already be printed together rather than glue. But it's not the magical wand I had hoped it to be. Thank you!
Really great update, thank you. I've a 2 head partly assembled XL. I've been feeling some buyers regret. The only things that have worked really well are single colour large prints (things that I can't fit on the MK3 or MK4). Most of my multi toolhead prints have been a failure - stringing yes, print failures yes I think are due to collisions on the wipe tower. My MK4 is working so sweet, and with input shaper is rock solid. I've not talked to Prusa support - I did try over Christmas but there was a long wait for an agent. I wasn't aware of the pin greasing issue. This is why your channel is so bloody useful - as others have said, there's very few YT channels covering the XL that I either trust or can be bothered with. Keep up the great content.🥰🙏👍
That's frustrating! Yeah single colors I have no issue with. Or maybe a single color change. I'm running something now without a tower because I've been having issues with that as well. I know it's not recommended, but it's worth a shot.
Yeah I feel like getting on chat you need to be in front of your printer and be ready to wait for a couple of hours. But I think they need to get more feedback of the issues we are experiencing. Hope you get it sorted! Thanks so much!
Thank you for the update!!
Thanks!
Good summary! Thanks for it
Thank you!
Great video as always. I also have the XL 5 toolhead. Commented previously, so far do not see the issues you have had. However you made the great point, depends what you print. Suggest we all print exactly the same thing, take photos and put them somewhere to compare. Really this is what the test print should be for.
Yes, that would be helpful! I'm going to work on the buddy print. Thank you!
Firstly let me say thank you for posting your videos on the XL, I am still waiting (not so) patently for mine to arrive, so it’s great to be able to start to learn about the machine whilst waiting.
I am glad that you are being reasonably reserved in your criticism of Prusa as, whilst there are definitely improvements that can be made to the hard, soft & firmwares, I have to say that I think that there is also a certain amount of user experience that needs to be gained to improve the situation too:
Item 3 of your video states that having your nozzles seals set at the correct height is necessary to obtain a good print and you even refer to the Prusa video on the subject, which clearly shows how they need to be set, yet yours are obviously set too high: When the nozzle is in place, on the seal, the contact area of the seal needs to be parallel with the face of the nozzle otherwise a good seal will not be achieved and oozing could occur.
You are not making life easy for yourself by using non-Prusa filaments either; Prusa cannot be expected to develop/provide profiles for every single filament available as thoroughly as they do for their own. Even if you were using Prusa filaments, a certain amount of tweaking of the profiles might be necessary dependent on the colour of filament and type of print, so if you’re using non-Prusa filaments you should expect to have to do a lot more tweaking to the profiles and you need significant experience and persistence to do that.
On the whole the printer is doing a great job of printing the benchies, even with a 0.6 nozzle and do not forget that the Benchies are a torture test, designed to push your printer to the limit. The only thing that it is struggling with, is a little stringing and oozing on multi-coloured prints which, as you have found with the 0.6 nozzles is a just a case of getting everything set right, including the filament profiles. I’m pleased to see that you have been using a temperature tower, but I also think that you need to do some specific stringing tests, with each filament to iron out your problems with the 0.4 nozzles, including dried vs non-dried filament.
You have stated that you are not getting stringing/blobbing problems on any machine, but I think that it is fair to say that the issues you are getting are only really relevant to multi-material machines; do you have the MMU for the Bamboo? I believe the MM version of this machine has a nozzle wiper built in and I have seen that others have added wiping brushes to the XL, maybe this would help you too: Search models: xl nozzle brush | Printables.com
I did a bit of research reference the Bamboo wiper & people were saying that the standard wiper isn’t that great, but others have made a modified versions that use 2 or 3mm silicone sheet as a wiper, maybe this would work better for the XL too: Bambu Lab X1C/P1P Nozzle Wiper with 2mm Silicone sheet by Sealight333 | Download free STL model | Printables.com
So, the final topic to address is why you are getting worse results with the 0.4 nozzles, when “everyone” else is getting better results and physics would also dictate that oozing should be less with a smaller orifice:
How long was there between drying the filaments, printing with the 0.6 nozzle and printing with the 0.4 nozzles, is it possible that the filament had started to absorb moisture again by the time you did the 0.4 print? It is also possible that when you did the drying, the filament was only dried to a certain depth of the roll and the dry portion had been used before you did the 0.4 print.
Did you recalibrate the tool heads after changing to the 0.4 nozzles? This process is much more important on the multi-head machine than it is on any of the single head machines: On the mk4 no change is necessary, if you don’t reset the Z-offset on a mk3, the only thing that could be wrong is the first layer, after that all other layers will be fine, but if you don’t do it on the XL, there could be a mis-match between the nozzles positions & height on every layer, which could cause one colour to be deposited on the other colour mare readily.
What layer height did you use/was it the same for both 0.6 & 0.4 prints? Is it possible that the layer height used was more suited to the 0.6 nozzle?
Finally, have you noticed that there are now different filament profiles for each nozzle size & also for with & without Input Shaper? The temperatures for the 0.4 layer tend to be hotter than those for the 0.6, is it possible that you adjusted the temperature for the 0.6 nozzles, but not the 0.4 nozzles?
All very good points. Yes I did recalibrate after swapping to the .4 nozzle. For the dried filament benchy, I printed the .6 first and then the .4. So yes it's possible that it either absorbed some moisture or wasn't as dried closer in on the spool. But these prints don't take much filament.
Yes I used .2 speed on Input Shaper for both profiles. I will work on the nozzle seals. I figured as long as they're not pushing my toolheads up, the tighter, the better.
I am having some prints that work out ok. But the inconsistencies are what are getting frustrating.
Prusament PLA is sold out in almost every color.
I think it's completely possible that my issues are user errors. Thanks
Your nozzle seals are adjusted too high. They basically need to sit parallel to the nozzle itself to fully seal it. This is typically the root cause for most stringing issues I see with XLs and it's not really a design flaw: these nozzles are being parked hot and hot nozzles will ooze filament unless they are sealed - on any printer really.
Ok I'll check it out. Thanks so much!
I used to have stringing on my custom CoreXY printer till I started using OrcaSlicer. They have different types of wipes where you can spiral, slope, and a couple other types that allowed me to stop the nozzle ooze i would get during travels. They also have seam gap settings that can help with oozing and seam bulging. I dont know if there is a profile for the XL yet, but you might wanna try it out once they create one for it.
Oh that's interesting. Thank you!
Great video - and nice to see your face! LOVE the sweatshirt, I was not aware these were available!
Good to know your XL is working better now, it’s an excellent tool. I shared on an earlier video my 2T just works, minimal stringing and no problems except it’s a bit noisy 😮. One thing I didn’t mention is… as I found through time this helped so much with 1st layer adhesion and print results on my MK3 with MMU, I now have 2 filament dryers and as a habit I always dry a spool for some 6 hours when new, and all open spools are stored in large sealed plastic boxes with desiccant in. Maybe that also helped me in having such a different experience?
Printed successfully with 0.6 nozzle mostly but also done a few prints on 0.4.
Machine is such a joy, how it makes multicolored prints now quick and with little waste, and the huge print volume. Also feels it’s built like a tank and is going to last forever!
Thanks! It's a pretty comfortable sweatshirt too!
That's so great to hear you are having such good results! Yeah I may need to just get in the habit of drying. Right now I am marking the ones that are dried but that's not very convenient. Thank you!
@@tada3dprinting what surprised me was I had always assumed 'if it's new filament it doesn't need drying, right?'. Many times I have new filament I open, then I have problems (stringing, or first layer is not sticking well) and then after spending a night on the drier, it prints perfect. So now any new filament goes to the drier!
Happy New Year!
I am glad to see you solving your stringing issues with the Prusa XL 5.
There are some filament dryers that hold multiple spools, I have a Sunlu 4 spool dryer arriving shortly via their Kickstarter. Though some reviews of the preproduction units say it is a little noisy. Maybe an air-conditioner or dehumidifier for your workroom would be a good alternative to dry the air, with your multiple printers running.
Also, I don't have an XL but my feeling is that the nozzle seals are a little too high. I would expect them to be horizontal ___ to cover & close the hole, and not just touch on one corner.
I do have a minisplit unit. But I do like the idea of just getting something to dehumidify the whole room. That might be easier than all of the filament I go through. Thanks!
If there is one thing that will fix everything it's drying filament 😂 - in all seriousness though, pretty much everyone suggests drying filament for every problem. Usually you can hear wet filament though, when you hear it sound like rice crispies (snap crackle pop) as the filament goes through the nozzle. If that's the case then the filament is definitely wet - and usually PETG or other hygroscopic materials will struggle with this, I don't think I've ever had an issue with PLA being too wet and causing issues. Another tell tale wet filament sign is a bubbly rough finish & stringing, outside of that drying may help a little but it usually isn't the main issue or a major issue. I know the community Grant runs over at 3dMuskateers is descent and Grant also has a 5 toolhead Pursa XL - he may have some ideas as well. Thanks again for showing all of this, I can bet it's been frustrating with how expensive this machine was and how much time you've had to spend to test/tune it. Hopefully, your videos and struggles get more visibility and focus from Prusa and the community so everyone can have a better out-of-box experience w/ the XL. Thanks!
Thanks so much!
(see reply for follow up) For what it's worth, it isn't just the XL. Last month I got a Snapmaker J1 IDEX printer. Trying to print the dual color benchy (actually also trying again last night!) I also really struggle to get the fine details of the second color (black on both yours and my models) to not string.
Like you, I got all the same advice about retraction, but it doesn't seem to care much if they're set to what would be fine for a single color print.
Things that seem to be helping: Z hop for retraction on. Fast travel speed and acceleration. Very slow print speed for very fine features of the second color.
Something about zipping quickly thru the very tiny blob features seems to cause them to smear? I haven't gotten it perfect yet, but I found this while just trying to do stringing torture tests. That I needed a very slow minimum speed to obey minimum layer time to avoid branching and stringing. But still fast travel times to snap clean.
I don't know, haven't gotten it perfect yet. My best is about as good as yours so far. But those doors are hard to nail in a dual benchy with independent extruders!
And while tinkering more, may have found a Cura setting that can help. Experimental settings, small hole and small feature length with associated speed reduction.
This lets Cura automatically detect and slow way down for small features specifically. So that overall print time is not significantly affected! With the benchy dual color model, threshold to catch the doors and other small features and slowing to min speed, it adds only ~15 minutes overall, to the otherwise 70 minute print.
Don't know equivalent in Prusa/Orca slicers.
I think my frustration has been that my MMU3 on my MK3s looks SOOOO much better. It did take way longer tho. And I have issues with color changes a lot on it. I'll keep your suggestions in mind. Thanks so much!
@@tada3dprinting thanks! I've been following your videos, especially on the XL, as I also try to understand the nuance of multi extruder printing. I think there's some subtlety that just doesn't always follow from basic, single extruder logic! Especially with certain kinds of changes, like these small features.
I've ordered the EIBOS 3d Polymophus filament dryer. I think it's still in our order but they emailed me that i should ship before end of January.
Supposed to be the best dryer because it goes up to 70c and it has small motor to rotate filament rolls to prevent hot spots while drying.
To me those seem like basic features that all dryers should have.
I live in super humid Louisiana and before i print petg or even pla i need a good dryer.
Let me know how you like it. Thanks!
I would suggest you get a filament dryer and store your in vacuum bags with desiccant when not in use. I don’t have a Bambu, but I thought the AMS has desiccant so maybe that is add a bit of dryness when printing from the Bambu. Either way your level of production probably requires you to dry all your filament even from the factory. There are plenty of options to include the dehydrator stack. I look forward to see what you come up with. Great video.
Yeah I agree I need to figure out a better system. Thanks so much!
After your video about stringing I made few experiments. I'd like to create an article or video with the results. Result shows that 2 factors effecting the stringing there the most. Quality of the filament and its dryness. e.g. I used Hatchbox black - and old filament I found home, Polymaker Wine red and Prusament galaxy black. Prusal sclicer 1.7.1 and firmware 5.1.0. I always printed the main body in red and the accent with one of two blacks. I printed them with and without purging tower too with 0.6 and 0.4 nozzles. Result was interesting the red was flawless almost always. Hatchbox was stringing but Prusament not. It was clearly visible on purge tower too. But even the Hatchbox was better than your on older videos. I tried it with 2 different layer heights and with and without Input Shaper too. My conclusion was that stringing obviously mostly depends on quality and dryness of the filament and then the layer height if we do not count variability in slicer which I kept the same. I personally never expected "Generic" filament profile working for each filament without tuning. I first try it and see. If needed printing like you a temp tower and calibrating the multiplier too. As far as it comes to your and my results the biggest difference is the filament itself. BTW exactly which filaments did you use for the experiment?
That's really interesting. I use mostly Overture. I haven't had any issues on any of my other printers. Even the single toolhead XL. But I have some Prusament on order. I actually would prefer just using different filament than having to dry what I'm using. I do have some Galaxy Black PLA that I might be able to test out while I wait on shipping. Thanks so much!
I use a food dehydrator. Filament is cheap, dry and keep extra so no delay.
Thank you!
Thanks for your honesty. Prusa XL sucks and you’re right the quality should be better considering the priceX
I've seen others with beautiful prints. But so far for me, it's been a struggle.
When you are pushing the max lower temp on filaments its important to test white and black as the both will have slightly different affects based on the additives. From the looks of it, the black color needs a higher temp than the white.
That's a good point. And at least with the XL, you can print each filament at a different temp if needed. Thanks!
I've git the same printer (shipped Nov. 16th 2023). little stringing with 0.6mm nozzles. The main issue is that it wants me to rerun the whole calibration process after a firmware update. I did not do it and yet it works well... I would buy it again. Before i had a German RepRap 350X that had way more issues, but in 2016...
Yeah the calibration to me seems to give me inconsistent results. What types of prints are you running? Tall, big, both? Thanks!
Have been watching your videos since you got your XL's. I'm glad you got yours to print at all. Have had mine for a month and it hasn't printed yet. Fails on calibration with the new firmware. Still working with Prusa but not impressed. Printing the maintenance parts is going to be a real problem. Still have my MK3S that works flawlessly.
Thanks so much! That sounds soooo frustrating! Mine failed calibration twice and then finally passed. So I was nervous to calibrate when I was playing with nozzle sizes. I wonder if you use a different firmware if you can at least pass calibration and then update the firmware again? Seems very strange tho!
My current problem now is that colors just don't print. Different colors and different toolheads each time. But it's really annoying when you're running 20 hours into a print and it just doesn't want to push out a new color. Thanks for your support!
Tried numerous times, re-loading the new firmware, turning the XL on and off again, and numerous calibration try's on both print heads. It immediately fails when I align the changer with the either print head. It calibrates easily if I go back to the firmware it came with. Very strange.I hope Prusa has a return policy, can't have a chunk of steel taking up space it it doesn't work. Very@@tada3dprinting
I'm calibrate with the original firmware, load the new firmware then go ahead and see if it will print anything. @@tada3dprinting
I can confirm that using a filament dryer and storing filament in big air tight boxes with big bags of silica helps a lot. For flex or nylon it's even a hard requirement.
Thanks so much!
I use rechargeable desiccant.
@@larryturnertclan yep, these bags you can put in the microwave and that indicate their state with a color changing label.
I started having extrusion issues issues with my mk4 that only resolved after changing the flash drive I was using for g-codes.
Oh wow that's interesting. I'm not using the original one anymore but I'll check this. Thanks!
I have 2 mk4s i found the filament i use cannot print with high speed input shaping switching to mk4 profiles or to 0.15mm structural fixed the prints also i use polymaker filament not shure if this helps
Yeah I have had some issues with Input Shaping before too. Mostly things warping tho. But I'll try out some other filament. Thank you!
I'm very interested in this printer but will wait on the sidelines for this to get to bambu quality.
Just even a clear troubleshooting would be nice. Thanks!
I am wondering if there is more of a problem with filament like white because of the Titanium Dioxide that is used as a pigment in them. Have you tried one of the newer high speed, high flow types of white PLA? I see several brands out there coming out with those types of filaments. I also wonder what a temp tower of cold white filament with the titanium dioxide vs the warm white which is basically a natural PLA, would show?
Oh that's interesting. Yeah I feel like I have a lot of issues with white. I'll see if I can find another type to compare. Thanks!
We are all just learning this new Nextruder. I have a feeling that Prusa mostly used Prusament to test and calibrate the XL and MK4. It is not too different than when I bought my MK3S 5 years ago. It seems like we were Beta testers then.@@tada3dprinting
Just curious... how long was it in between the time you dried the filament and then tried the .4 nozzle? A couple days left open in a moderately humid environment is enough to make even PLA take up some moisture. I've seen a bunch of UA-cam 3D print channels where they leave their filament out in the open on wall racks all the time. This has always baffled me quite a lot. All of my filament gets dried before and after or during a print, then vacuum bagged with a couple packs of desiccant and a desiccant holder in the middle of each spool. If I don't do this, I have stringing issues after a few days. PETG\ASA\PC\Nylon are even more important to store vacuum bagged with plenty of desiccant. Just a few hours is enough to ruin print quality if using a Nylon filament. PETG I've had issues after as little as 24hrs out in the open.
Is my method an absolute pain in the ass? Absolutely! But it's something I've gotten used to as a means of eliminating wet filament as a variable in my prints. Overall, my prints string a lot less and I have practically zero issues with blobbing or dialing in retraction settings. I'm not saying my method is for everyone as it does cost money in vacuum bags, dryers, desiccant pellets\packs and filament to print the desiccant holders. But in my opinion the benefits far outweigh the hassle and extra cost. Just some food for thought.
Great video showcasing what worked and didn't work for you! Before I decide to buy an XL or not, it's really beneficial to see what experience others have had with it. Hopefully, most of your issues with it are behind you now. 🙂
EDIT: I should clarify that I'm not saying wet filament is still causing you some stringing issues. I'm was only suggesting that eliminating that as a variable every time might help you dial in everything else faster and cause less wasted time\filament on test prints.
I mostly print with PLA. The only filament I put back in bags is wood or the occasional TPU etc. I haven't really had issues with stringing before. But I need to come up with a different process now.
That does seem like a lot of work because I have 15 printers and go through a lot of filament. But it's great to hear what others do. I'm sure I can implement some of it. Thanks so much!
I store all my filament in a bag with a desiccant canister inside. I do live in a fair humid climate though.
I am in Texas but it is a tad humid. Do you have trouble telling what colors things are in the bags? I know they are clear but I seem to have trouble telling between similar colors. Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting I put a 3D Benchy on my spool storage holder.
@@tada3dprinting I sent you an email with the spool holder to try for your personal use.
I printed the clownfish model that other YTers had stringing issues with and mine came out awesome at stock settings and with even old filaments.
My 5T came as a kit, could this be a factor too?
It's a possibility. Mine came "fully-assembled". You would think mine would be well tuned but maybe not. Thanks!
Do the idle print heads stay at printing Temperatures?
Maybe this would explain the difference in stringing between the mk4 and XL?
That's a really good question. I assume they do because the tool change seems to be very quick. Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting Mhhh mabye that's something worth cheking out.
Because the hotend temperature is calibrated for a certain flow (to melt the plastic completely in a limited amount of time in the hotend) these temps could be way to hot for it to just be sitting there.
Both the dualextrusion Module from snapmaker with luban and the toolchanger profile from simplify3d reduce the nozzle temp down to 150°c when idling to avoid this problem and have a specified heat up time in order to be back up to temps when a toolchange occurs
You could just print with your Bambu, some Prusa lover will buy it and fix it like an old Ender 3!
Haha. I'm not quite there yet. But my Bambus are happily printing away while my XL gives me issues. Thanks!
This is my third time commenting here. While I love your videos, our results are drastically different. I've stated before I only use Prusament or Polymaker filament. I never have stringing. I received my 5XL a week before Christmas, so maybe it's different. I have zero problems printing with the 0.6 nozzle, and my parts look as good if not better than the MK4. Please Please do a video with a high quality filament.
I'm willing to try it. I have Prusament on order now. Thanks so much!
@@tada3dprinting Thanks. Hopefully that makes a difference. If you still get the same results then I'm wondering if some parts have changed from the model you have to the model I have. I did the semi-assembled purchase, not the fully assembled, perhaps there is a minor undocumented change.
Prusament PLA !!!, 5% Fill density. I am 62 year old man. I have aphasia and right side paralysis.
Because of aphasia I´m struggling with speaking and I move by
wheelchair.
I have some ordered and I will try it out. Thanks so much! 💗
When you printed 0.4mm filament - was it dried again? I think you have a lot of issues with moisture.
Yes. I printed the dried .6 and then the dried .4 right after it. Thanks!
why not print and use dryboxes for the filament? with petg/pla i never had stringing issues , and i always keep them in dryboxes.
I could and I may end up having to. But this same filament prints without stringing on 10 other Prusa printers including a single toolhead XL, and the MMU3. So it seems strange to me that the 5 TH is sooo sensitive. Thank you!
@@tada3dprinting understood , then that cannot be the cause... so probably doing it mono colour and printing the same gcode on the xl 5 th and xl 1th with the same spool should yield different results? If so , i think it is definitely worth a case and your time with prusa support, because that's literally the same hw and same filament
Your seals looked like mines and i adjusted mine.
They look like yours before or after you adjusted? Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting mine came looking how your seals were set-up. I adjusted it according to tpthe Prusa video coz i thought it was too high.
Great video, good to see some improvements. Still, as the printer costs IMHO a lot of money, it should deliver perfect prints out of the box. As I was forced to either convert my pre-order into an order or to cancel it, I did the later as I did not had the right feeling about it.
I can understand. I wish I had bothered prusa chat a lot more in the beginning. But I didn't like the response I was getting that the stringing wasn't too bad. At this point, I'm still wanting to work through the issues. Eventho I am starting to wonder if I got a lemon or if I am just missing something simple. Thank you!
Just a minor comment. That lapel mic is only outputting on one side of my headphones, I suspect you might want to mix the audio when you are in view differently.
Oh that's good to know. I didn't listen back with headphones. Thanks so much!
i like that sweatshirt
Thanks!
I bought a Prusa XL 5 toolhead second hand. I updated it to the last firmware and tried the included G-Code files. The result was: stringing as hell and blobs with other filament colors...
But after I sliced my own models (using the newest PrusaSlicer) it all was gone. I now print stuff with toolchanges and no stringing (besides some small fine whisps for special filament like Polymaker Breakaway support) and great print results.
As far as I know they changed the way the toolchanges happen inside the slicer so that the toolhead first goes over the wipetower and then triggers the toolchange which reduces stringing and blobbing. Here is a video describing the process (but with a manual change of the location before a toolchange): ua-cam.com/video/agihAiTZJ00/v-deo.html
I agree that the included gcode files are outdated. And my printer has done ok with some very boring basic prints. But any detail has had stringing issues for a long time. It's nice to finally have it under control.
I did try out that custom gcode and it worked good but didn't work with lightning infill. Trying out some new things now. Thanks!
@@tada3dprintingLike I said I now have 0 problems with the stock profiles from PrusaSlicer. I hadn't need to change anything and I get great details without stringing or blobbing.
Seeing prusa's correct nozzle seal, immediately followed by yours, in the video, it looks like your seals are definitely too high! it looks like the seals should ne just barely touching the nozzles, allowing the seals to stay basically perpendicular with the ground, your seals are all being pressed down, making it look like they arent going to seal the nozzle hole properly
Ok. I guess I was just figuring the higher the better. I haven't adjusted them at all from the factory assembly. But I'll check them out. Thanks so much!
Nice video. I already cancelled my pre-order. Prusa did not deliver the experience we expect from their brand. Still feels like a beta test, not a printer ready for release.
I know some people are posting their beautiful prints on facebook. I think it has great features. But I am disappointed by the inconsistencies. Hoping they are things that can be improved with firmware etc since I already have it! Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting It seems like the hardware is good. Single color prints look good, and a few people have gotten good multi-color.
I do think it can improve with software, it's just frusterating that after so many years in development, Prusa, who is known for their well tuned factory profiles, really didn't nail this. You don't buy a prusa so it can be a tuning project, and yet that's where we are right now. Hoping they improve it going forward, I know at the very least they are trying.
There's a little bit of irony in the fact that you use a bambulab printer to dry the filament to make the extra expensive prusa xl work!
Haha, I'm m glad you caught that. I was about to order a dryer but saw the Bambu can do it. So why not? Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting totally would have done the same :)
I appreciate all your insights in helping the community with the XL!
I preordered my five-head prusa XL in september 2022 and I finally got the bill for it in early December 2023.
They haven't shipped me it yet despite me having paid for it a month ago.
After watching multiple review videos on the XL I am getting cold feet about it. Prusa seems largely incompetent.
It seems like the issues some are having (like me) are improving. If you are printing large dragons etc, I think you should be good. The trouble I am having is in the detailed or prints that have lots of changes.
If I was in your place in the queue, I would get the machine and try it out with your filaments and your prints in your environment etc. And if it doesn't work for you, sell it. They're still in such demand that I'm sure you could get full price. Thank you!
Great video.
Good points
One thing, the sound is in reverse fase, when I see you, but in fase or mono, when you are commiting the video.
Thanks for sharing your experience with All of us 👍😀
I'll check that out. I thought I had it on the same setting both times. Thanks so much!
you have to print with purge tower...
Thanks
This is a $4k machine!
I want multiple color printer with a larger build area.
And seeing soooo many issues with this, its really discouraging.
I have seen many others with good results. But I am struggling 😩
The mic's sound when you appear is in mono.
It's funny because I record my voiceovers and the live video with the same mic. I'll have to see what's wrong with my settings. Thank you!
Although I was concerned about wasted filament, Bambu Labs does multicolor better.
$4000 will get you a Bambu with AMS, and about 120 rolls of filament. The XL just isn't ready for prime time, but I have confidence that Prusa will get it right. Their reputation is riding on it.
I really love my Bambus that I just recently purchased. I just wish they could print bigger and less waste. But yes I am using them for the majority of my multi color prints. Thanks!
How is nobody mentioning the face reveal lol
Haha! I just kind of snuck that in there. I did show my face once before when I first got this machine. Just a lot easier to focus on what I'm printing. Thanks for the support!
It is exactly as you said it at the end.
You should have a reliable printer because of this whole time you waited for it. For me, this is unacceptable. For me, this is enough to discourage me from buying it. This whole thing to me seems like they are amateurs even though we know that this is not the truth. But maybe they tried something that they couldn't achieve at the end.
I know people are happy with their printers. But it's frustrating to spend so much time without very clear direction. And even the things I was told by Prusa Chat to try (lower the temp), they later said not to adjust that. If I didn't have the channel, I would've sold it by now. Takes up too much space and costs to much to not be producing. I'm hoping they figure it out. Thanks!
Yeah I understand your way of thinking. Well the whole prusa support thing you are referring to, seems to me they know Jack shit about how to solve your problem so they are just guessing. Again, this seems like they are amateurs. Nonetheless, I hope they manage to solve these problems and continue creating new products.
Bravo on your videos.
I'll keep watching them.
I have a hard time believing the solution for a 5k printer is buy more stuff.
And that it's so sensitive, it can't handle filament that every other Prusa printer can. Thanks!
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