Consider adding fetch lands to thin your deck, your mountains will still come in untapped and you will have a higher % of drawing spells over lands in the game.
I like the way this video is put. I do want to point out that some shocklands aren't that expensive. I got my godless shrines for $7 each and also there are enemy buddy lands from original inastrad
Thank you so much for these videos - they are very helpful. Could you please make a video about brewing a mana-base according to colour ratio of non-land spells? Keep up the good work!
Awesome video. I use your budget series to check out sweet options too. Really sweet budget option in abzan decks is a one of murmuring bosk (with the new reprint especially). It's fetchable since it's a forest, and taps for three. Only one that does.
Yeah, it's an odd thing to consider. If you want to build a deck and start on a budget, then slowly grind your way to getting a better manabase, it's the better choice. But, if you're going to just stay super budget, then the enemies are cheaper. Personally, what I like to do is I managed to snag a cheap set of both red/black and green/white fetches, and I build my decks around them. My 8rack landbase is the red/black fetches, one shock, one tango, and four buddies, and my selesnya humans are the same, just for green/white. Personally, you really don't need more than one shock in a deck if you do it that way, unless you're running tri-color. I tried a budget Jund dragon deck, and how that worked was 3 and 3 of the red/green and red/black buddies, the red/black fetches, one of each shock, (I already owned them, so yay!) and one alara tri-land that entered tapped, as well as a few basics. That land base worked really well for me, but the rest of the deck needed work. Lol.
Wes B Whitacre III ah, so the criteria for not including allied fast lands and painlands is mainly the price (in the sense that at that point it's generally better to just buy fetches and shocks)? thanks in advance
Seachrome Coast: $5 each; Darkslick Shores: $8 each; Blackcleave Cliffs: $19 each; Copperline Gorge: $11 each; Razorverge Thicket: $8 each; average: $10 each. The average for the Tango (BFZ) lands is $3; average for the Shadow lands is $2.60; average for the KLD fast lands: $5.
As of one year from this video's posting Seachrome Coast, Copperline Gorge, and Razorverge Thicket are all cheaper than Contanical Sanctum at around $5 to $7.
I'd go lightning helix over bolt. Not sure what all adding red to soul sisters adds, but if you go black, you can do some seriously good things like add lingering souls, Sorin, (any of your choice) and some cheap removal spells, as well as Vampire Nighthawk. Lingering Souls alone is a really good card that people run black or white just to run. Look at black/white token decklists. I have one, which is really fun, and basically soul sisters with less focus on the expensive soul sister cards like archangel of thune and that one drop. If you go with a splash of black, then you can get away with playing the much slower landbase, and run 3 man lands, 4 buddy lands, and mostly plains with 2-3 swamps for basics. You don't need much black for that, just enough for the flashback of souls and doom blade. (victim of night is great, but the double black might be a bit hard to pull off)
my goal is to play soul attendant/warden/Martyr to gain a bunch of life. Maybe some blinking of creatures to add more life and counters on my Ajani Pridemates. I figure red adds more creatures, power & removal. I'm also playing one Aetherflux Reservoir.
just some random thoughts. I think the shock lands are some of the best cards to invest in for modern. and once you have them you can swap them to to any deck you play. sure they arnt dirt cheap, but they arnt too pricey either. I kinda like the scry lands, while running a play set can really hurt your tempo running one or two isn't too bad, and the scry effect is pretty good. Also dont forget some lands that can tap for all colors are worth considering, like aether hub, gemstone mine, city of brass. And then finaly maybe worth considering are the shards tri lands (like jungle shrine) sure they enter tapped but they are really good at mana fixing if you happen to be in those 3 colors. like with the scry land I dont recommend a playset, but a singleton is possibly worth considering
What about if you're going for an enemy pair with a shard splash (IE UG deck splashing white), can you just get away with having a couple basics of the splash color?
You really can't get away with running a couple basics for anything, even a splash. They need to have some other support from other lands. You probably would be running a fairly rough deck doing that, though, if the primary colors are enemies. If it was green-white with a blue splash, you could get the tangos, and buddies for the other colors. For an ideal landbase, you'd need to get the fairly cheap green/white fetches, one of each shock, one of the green/white tango, and 3 of the two main buddy lands that you'd run into, and one enters tapped tri-land. Personally, I know he doesn't really suggest it, but for tri-color decks, you really should, imo, run one copy of the tri land for your colors.
There are enemy colored check lands from innistrad are $5-9 and the allied color fast lands from scars of mirrodin are $9-13 with the exception of blackcleave cliffs at $ 18. These are NM prices at played or slightly played conditions, they're cheaper, making these viable in a mid priced budget deck.
I'd never heard the terms "ally" colour and "enemy" colour before. Is there something in particular that separates the two groups, or do you just have to remember which combinations are ally and enemy colours?
also, i was wondering if it wan't better for 2+ colors with no specific colors to run fetches+basics and then prairie stream-like cards, so that every card beyond the third comes untapped for free, and without life loss. i guess the answer is modern's speed but i wanted to hear your opinion!
Is it me or fetch lands might actually make a deck more vulnerable? They make sure you don't draw non-land cards in the lategame, but that also means that if you go against a deck that tries to shut down lands (through land destruction and spreading seas effects) you'll have a bigger problem replacing those lands. For example, a 12 seas deck could completely shut a death shadow aggro, because it only has 5 mana producing lands.
My question is, I'm making a black/white deck and I don't know how well my mana base is set up. 4x Isolated Chapel 8x Plains 4x Shambling Vent 8x Swamp 2x Westvale Abbey Does anyone have suggestions for this? Westvale Abbey is in the deck for synergy with cards in the deck itself, it's somewhat like an extort/lockdown deck.
it looks fine. you could cut 1 plains and 1 swamp for 2 caves of koilos further down the road and keep going for 2 godless shrine later ... then get the fetches when they reprint the marsh flats. They probably will soon enough since they did mire/strand and the other 2.
Aaron Galloway it depends on the decklist, if you have 70/30 black/White, you should play more black sources. Also you have to Look at when you Need wich Color, if you Run 20 black one Drops and the White spells all cost 3, you still want to play more Swamps Even if its 50/50
The reason for the WU budget mana base being more expensive than the GU is that everybody in Standard uses 2/3 of those lands while nobody is using Botanical Sanctum or Lumbering Falls for anything.
Naya burn is definitely considered aggro haha. That being said, even some of the main deck is pretty expensive (goblin guide) If I were you, I'd consider going either mono-red, or focusing on Wild Nacatyl with cinder glades and canopy vistas (although your main focus is going to be red lands). That being said, you can also combine RW fastlands, or if you just want burn, you could do jeskai to get full advantage out of new fastlands, needle spires, wandering fumaroles, etc
This is my infect mana base: 4 Wooded foothills 3 Windswept heath 1 Breeding Pool 1 Dryad Arbor 4 Botanical Sanctum 2 Yavimaya coast 1 Forest. Buy KTK fetch instead of Zendikar. Wooded foothills is one fifth price of Scalding Tarn
as of now (oktober 2017) I think the prices of enemy and allied colors have evened out? I can really see not much of a difference. the enemycolored fastlands are even more expensive now because auf standard demand.
To be honest just play Fetch+Dual oder Fetch+Shocklands - thats it for legay/modern for the most decks. You are behind with such a manabase you show in the video, the only question is about how much.
what i dont like about fetchlands is that they decrease the size of your deck by one card by fetching and thus decks without the ability are strictly worse off. that´s why i´ll never be playing modern
Austin P use the seismic swans budget magic and cut steam vents, and it is not very much over that, only about 70, I feel like the with a budget sideboard sets beat down list could work, but the difference in power level between a 50 dollar deck and a 100 dollar deck is larger than that between a 100 dollar deck and an 800 dollar one. upgrading you budget a little, or selling to eak out a little more cash makes decks much more powerful, I am a semi-budget player in modern and know how you feel.
pfft my modern mana base is 18 mountains. mono red goblins lol
everything comes into play untapped
Thalia, all your goblins come in tapped
noooooo
Sebastian Ferguson Bolt thalia?
No bolts! Only goblins!
Consider adding fetch lands to thin your deck, your mountains will still come in untapped and you will have a higher % of drawing spells over lands in the game.
Although i know about this , I m glad you posted this information for new modern players to get into this format , Thanks Seth
really glad you made this seth, this puts everything into perspective
I like the way this video is put. I do want to point out that some shocklands aren't that expensive. I got my godless shrines for $7 each and also there are enemy buddy lands from original inastrad
Awsome video! So many ppl who don't play Modern becuse of the lands are too damn high!
karplusan forest and underground river also just got reprinted in commander 2016 ;)
Thanks for making this, very helpful and informative.
Thank you so much for these videos - they are very helpful. Could you please make a video about brewing a mana-base according to colour ratio of non-land spells?
Keep up the good work!
Too bad izzet is always the most expensive mana base. 10 dollars per fastland is absurdly expensive since its in print.
not taking into account scalding tarn, jesus
Awesome video. I use your budget series to check out sweet options too. Really sweet budget option in abzan decks is a one of murmuring bosk (with the new reprint especially). It's fetchable since it's a forest, and taps for three. Only one that does.
Funnily enough, allied colors are cheaper if you aren't on a budget since the Khans fetch lands are ally.
Yeah, it's an odd thing to consider. If you want to build a deck and start on a budget, then slowly grind your way to getting a better manabase, it's the better choice. But, if you're going to just stay super budget, then the enemies are cheaper.
Personally, what I like to do is I managed to snag a cheap set of both red/black and green/white fetches, and I build my decks around them. My 8rack landbase is the red/black fetches, one shock, one tango, and four buddies, and my selesnya humans are the same, just for green/white. Personally, you really don't need more than one shock in a deck if you do it that way, unless you're running tri-color. I tried a budget Jund dragon deck, and how that worked was 3 and 3 of the red/green and red/black buddies, the red/black fetches, one of each shock, (I already owned them, so yay!) and one alara tri-land that entered tapped, as well as a few basics. That land base worked really well for me, but the rest of the deck needed work. Lol.
this actually helps a bit with trying to work out my commander's land base. this way, i don't have to spend as long looking around online
Soo I would absolutely love an updated version of this, because the enemy fast lands have all spiked
i don't get it, doesn't allied color get fastlands like seachrome coast as well?
Most of those lands are in the $8-$18 dollar range at the moment. The only allied color fast land that's fairly inexpensive is Seachrome Coast.
Wes B Whitacre III ah, so the criteria for not including allied fast lands and painlands is mainly the price (in the sense that at that point it's generally better to just buy fetches and shocks)? thanks in advance
Seachrome Coast: $5 each; Darkslick Shores: $8 each; Blackcleave Cliffs: $19 each; Copperline Gorge: $11 each; Razorverge Thicket: $8 each; average: $10 each.
The average for the Tango (BFZ) lands is $3; average for the Shadow lands is $2.60; average for the KLD fast lands: $5.
he said it at the beginning. he is talking about lands 5$ or less in this.
As of one year from this video's posting Seachrome Coast, Copperline Gorge, and Razorverge Thicket are all cheaper than Contanical Sanctum at around $5 to $7.
Seth, I plan to play these duel lands and change my mono white Sisters into Red/White sisters.
which Red cards do you suggest? preferably Budgetish.
Chandra, Pyromaniac.
Do you mean Norin Sisters? If so, add Genesis Chamber, and Bolt.
I'd go lightning helix over bolt. Not sure what all adding red to soul sisters adds, but if you go black, you can do some seriously good things like add lingering souls, Sorin, (any of your choice) and some cheap removal spells, as well as Vampire Nighthawk. Lingering Souls alone is a really good card that people run black or white just to run. Look at black/white token decklists. I have one, which is really fun, and basically soul sisters with less focus on the expensive soul sister cards like archangel of thune and that one drop.
If you go with a splash of black, then you can get away with playing the much slower landbase, and run 3 man lands, 4 buddy lands, and mostly plains with 2-3 swamps for basics. You don't need much black for that, just enough for the flashback of souls and doom blade. (victim of night is great, but the double black might be a bit hard to pull off)
my goal is to play soul attendant/warden/Martyr to gain a bunch of life. Maybe some blinking of creatures to add more life and counters on my Ajani Pridemates. I figure red adds more creatures, power & removal. I'm also playing one Aetherflux Reservoir.
Trevor Evans That sounds really bad, janky, inefficient and really "win more." I think that you're better off just running black/white tokens.
In my opinion, azorius budget mana bases are GREAT beacause of nimbus maze. It allways enter untaped and gives you the mana you need.
just some random thoughts.
I think the shock lands are some of the best cards to invest in for modern. and once you have them you can swap them to to any deck you play. sure they arnt dirt cheap, but they arnt too pricey either.
I kinda like the scry lands, while running a play set can really hurt your tempo running one or two isn't too bad, and the scry effect is pretty good.
Also dont forget some lands that can tap for all colors are worth considering, like aether hub, gemstone mine, city of brass.
And then finaly maybe worth considering are the shards tri lands (like jungle shrine) sure they enter tapped but they are really good at mana fixing if you happen to be in those 3 colors. like with the scry land I dont recommend a playset, but a singleton is possibly worth considering
I bit the bullet last week and bought flooded strands, hallowed fountains, watery graves, and godless shrines so I could play esper Hatebears lol.
Daniel Farrell Esper hate bears? That sounds fun
It's only biting the bullet if you buy the Marsh Flats :P
Esper hate bears so fun with spell queller and such
What about if you're going for an enemy pair with a shard splash (IE UG deck splashing white), can you just get away with having a couple basics of the splash color?
You really can't get away with running a couple basics for anything, even a splash. They need to have some other support from other lands. You probably would be running a fairly rough deck doing that, though, if the primary colors are enemies. If it was green-white with a blue splash, you could get the tangos, and buddies for the other colors. For an ideal landbase, you'd need to get the fairly cheap green/white fetches, one of each shock, one of the green/white tango, and 3 of the two main buddy lands that you'd run into, and one enters tapped tri-land.
Personally, I know he doesn't really suggest it, but for tri-color decks, you really should, imo, run one copy of the tri land for your colors.
There are enemy colored check lands from innistrad are $5-9 and the allied color fast lands from scars of mirrodin are $9-13 with the exception of blackcleave cliffs at $ 18. These are NM prices at played or slightly played conditions, they're cheaper, making these viable in a mid priced budget deck.
I'd never heard the terms "ally" colour and "enemy" colour before. Is there something in particular that separates the two groups, or do you just have to remember which combinations are ally and enemy colours?
The color wheel for mtg
mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Color_Pie
one color and the colors right next to it are allies, and the ones across are enemies
Thanks for the help!
There are fasts and pains for all guilds so you’re good there.
also, i was wondering if it wan't better for 2+ colors with no specific colors to run fetches+basics and then prairie stream-like cards, so that every card beyond the third comes untapped for free, and without life loss. i guess the answer is modern's speed but i wanted to hear your opinion!
Is it me or fetch lands might actually make a deck more vulnerable?
They make sure you don't draw non-land cards in the lategame, but that also means that if you go against a deck that tries to shut down lands (through land destruction and spreading seas effects) you'll have a bigger problem replacing those lands.
For example, a 12 seas deck could completely shut a death shadow aggro, because it only has 5 mana producing lands.
Land hate is not played in tier 1 decks.
Anyone have any tips as to what the best budget dual lands are for Rakdos and Golgari decks?
Llanowar wastes are a dollar a piece and are pretty effective, not sure about Rakdos however.
Austin P it is sulfur springs
My question is, I'm making a black/white deck and I don't know how well my mana base is set up.
4x Isolated Chapel
8x Plains
4x Shambling Vent
8x Swamp
2x Westvale Abbey
Does anyone have suggestions for this? Westvale Abbey is in the deck for synergy with cards in the deck itself, it's somewhat like an extort/lockdown deck.
it looks fine. you could cut 1 plains and 1 swamp for 2 caves of koilos further down the road and keep going for 2 godless shrine later ... then get the fetches when they reprint the marsh flats. They probably will soon enough since they did mire/strand and the other 2.
Humstuck The godless shrines I drop Caves of Koilos for or drop another plains and swamp for them? I'm fairly new at making a mana base and such.
Aaron Galloway it depends on the decklist, if you have 70/30 black/White, you should play more black sources. Also you have to Look at when you Need wich Color, if you Run 20 black one Drops and the White spells all cost 3, you still want to play more Swamps Even if its 50/50
HELP
what lands must i play for a budget grixis delver?
Google it.
you're my hero seth :^)
Solid video!
Forgot to mention the interaction of vivid lands/Aether hub with reflecting poil
The reason for the WU budget mana base being more expensive than the GU is that everybody in Standard uses 2/3 of those lands while nobody is using Botanical Sanctum or Lumbering Falls for anything.
Why didn't you discuss the Scars of Mirrodin lands?
because they cost almost like shocklands
so a Naya burn mana base on a budget isnt really going to be viable? or is burn not considered a aggro deck?
Naya burn is definitely considered aggro haha. That being said, even some of the main deck is pretty expensive (goblin guide) If I were you, I'd consider going either mono-red, or focusing on Wild Nacatyl with cinder glades and canopy vistas (although your main focus is going to be red lands). That being said, you can also combine RW fastlands, or if you just want burn, you could do jeskai to get full advantage out of new fastlands, needle spires, wandering fumaroles, etc
This is my infect mana base:
4 Wooded foothills
3 Windswept heath
1 Breeding Pool
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Botanical Sanctum
2 Yavimaya coast
1 Forest.
Buy KTK fetch instead of Zendikar. Wooded foothills is one fifth price of Scalding Tarn
as of now (oktober 2017) I think the prices of enemy and allied colors have evened out? I can really see not much of a difference. the enemycolored fastlands are even more expensive now because auf standard demand.
Shock lands for the most part are dirt cheap right now. Hallowed fountain is cheaper than Prairie stream actually
To be honest just play Fetch+Dual oder Fetch+Shocklands - thats it for legay/modern for the most decks. You are behind with such a manabase you show in the video, the only question is about how much.
They should make all dual lands uncommon, it would lower deck costs significantly.
That would ruin the secondary market.
Pls give me a BUDGET JUND manabase
So if i wanted a red/white/green budget land base what am i looking. I just came back to magic
I'll probably need to update the video for Standard, but Temple Garden, Sacred Foundry and Rootbound Craig will be three important lands.
@@MTGGoldfish well i play modern but im not trying to break the bank atm
S.O. $26 bucks for that manabase? On what planet? Botanical sanctum alone is at least 10 bucks a slice
Quint Clobo one year ago
I have no qualms about having your play group use guild gates as fetch lands.
what i dont like about fetchlands is that they decrease the size of your deck by one card by fetching and thus decks without the ability are strictly worse off. that´s why i´ll never be playing modern
$50 for lands... that's my entire MtG budget...
50 dollars will get you nothing in modern, try some other format.
jortikka a their are viable ultra budget decks, try mono color
For $80 I built a pretty brutal elves deck that works really well, even without Chord or Collected Company.
Austin P use the seismic swans budget magic and cut steam vents, and it is not very much over that, only about 70, I feel like the with a budget sideboard sets beat down list could work, but the difference in power level between a 50 dollar deck and a 100 dollar deck is larger than that between a 100 dollar deck and an 800 dollar one. upgrading you budget a little, or selling to eak out a little more cash makes decks much more powerful, I am a semi-budget player in modern and know how you feel.
I just can’t bare this video after like 2 minutes of his voice… I can’t..
just leave then, no need to comment negative things...
first
“Buddy Lands.” Triggered..
(They’re “CHECK Lands!!”)
i had to pause when you said 'evaulving wilds'