Crim posted his side of our match in this video. If you want to see the perspective of a dirty control player ruining all of my fun, you can check it out here ua-cam.com/video/SdPkViqNYq0/v-deo.html
i am not saying crim makes bad decks but they seem to be decks that are unfun to play and less fun to play against not also not great videos to watch either
@@durandle9226 Nah... Crim is *clearly* having a total blast playing his deck. Maybe his opponent's aren't enjoying themselves, but it's obvious how much fun he's having. lol
To be fair, it also can just make everything elementals which makes Master buff everything including itself. Oh nvm he's using anticipation not Transformation.
It’s honestly a breath of fresh air to see Thoracle in a deck that isn’t a “yeet my library and Thoracle for win”. It’s such a nice card with a boring win con.
my friend is gonna love this video. he plays almost mono blue devotion with the same combo splashing green for risen reef to put your whole deck into your hand and win with thoracle. decent local results too
If I had a nickel for everytime Seth gets matched with Crim playing control in an Against the Odds episode, I would have 2 nickels Which isn't a lot but it's funny that it happened twice
I've run Phylath reflections, Hoplite reflections, and now we can run mono blue devotion reflections! It's one of my favourite cards, and it's great to see the archetype get some love!
@@LadyMapi If you want to do that, run Reverant Hoplite too. The problem with running U/W like this though, is devotion, which both hoplite and waves need to achieve a good combo. Honestly, keep it mono blue and wait until you're against someone who's running the annoying hare. Reflections can target ANY creature on the battlefield, and that's why I love it so much :D
33:50 no cause theres still cards theyre missing so theres still a few things you can do in pioneer that you cant actually do in explorer. But as soon as the card pools fully match they should immediately start calling it Pioneer
41:00 That's not how that works, Mystic Reflection only makes the next instance of tokens into the target. So you'll get 16 more Master of Waves, and then have 16 + 7 (remaining from the first 8 on the stack) sets of 32 Elementals. Thus you end with 25 Master of Waves and 736 Elementals, which are 26/25's. Not sure why this would be too hard for the game to calculate and give you token limit elementals? Game Rules Engine, what's so hard about this?
Yeah, Arena is "special" in that regard. It should indeed have no trouble calculating/resolving that... my best guess is that when they implemented the token limit, they didn't actually address the underlying issue (which is somehow related to calculating tokens), but just did the bare minimum and implemented a max number of tokens. Which is why things like Scute Swarm can STILL easily break the game.
Having seen both sides of the Crim game, it was really fun but I do wish it had been a best-of-3 to see if the sideboard counters would make a difference against the wraths
at the end there, if the game didnt crash, the masters would summon elementals, not other master of waves, since mystic reflection only replaces the next instance of summoning
Oh I love this combo remember pulling this off for one game when i first started playing modern. Lost almost every game until i played a control player that bricked hard. Lol
Mystic Reflection is good, it has offense capabilies with MoW but also can work well turning an opponent's large threat into something small like a 1/0 elemental or some 1/1
I play a modern deck on mtgo that uses a similar strategy on deep forest hermit to make 16 6/6 squirrels. It's surprisingly effective, but I'm not sure why i never considered a mono blue version with master of waves. One alt wincon i use is altar of dementia to mill out normal size decks that somehow prevent killing through combat damage, or that need an instant speed option.
17:43 "This is probably only like 200 (damage) or something." Yep, counting your opponent's 20 life before the attack and the one Elemental they blocked, your crew got in for 204 damage total.
Also 1of Cavern of Souls on merfolk could help against control without hurting your mana base. 2of if you are interested in taking some risk in a control heavy meta.
They newest blue leyline (Transformation iirc) might be of interest as well. You can make everthing an elemental and use MoW as an anthem on a stick which even buffs itself. In caseryou do not find reflection.
14:00 isn't it bad ettiquite to concede before they have done their combo during early access. It seems likely emergent wins but im still curious what three cards they pick to get their win.
Funny enough, this was one of the decks I was considering trying out on arena, though I used Leyline of Transformation to make everything get the lord bonus from Master of Waves.
41:00 So if I'm thinking about it right, there would be 23 instances of making 32 1/0s because the original 7 still need to resolve and will see 32 devotion and then the new 16 will do the same so that'll be 736 26/25s
The problem is they compound. The token Masters of Waves still count towards devotion, so with each one that comes in, the devotion goes up by 2. Maybe not as exponential as copying Doubling Seasons with Calix or the like, but it's not a straightforward problem. If I'm understanding it right anyway... definitely one of those situations where in paper Magic the opponent goes "I have no clue how much power you have, but I don't have an answer, so I'm just going to concede."
I wonder of season of weaving would be good in this deck. Copying master of waves twice and drawing a card seems pretty good and you should be able to get the mana from nykthos
@rekenner yeah but I mean in the 5 color domain decks. It's still just a land that taps for 2 out of the gate, so it's better than nothing, even in 5 color.
@@laeclorentzen6111 you don't see how a land that doesn't have land types is bad in domain and doesn't tap for colors is bad in a deck with strict color requirements? Domain aggro doesn't even have a use for the mana
Mystic Reflection says "the next time one or more creatures or planesewalkers enter this turn", so it would have only made another 32 Master of Waves that last game. The other Masters would have all made elementals.
I gotta wonder, when arena gets 'broken' like this, does this crash JUST the game they're playing, or does it take down the entire program for whoever is logged in?
I’m sure this would be an unpopular idea, but what if upon release cards were legal in Standard, Commander, and Pauper, and then they don’t rotate into Pioneer, Modern, Legacy, and Vintage until they rotate out of Standard.
Crim posted his side of our match in this video. If you want to see the perspective of a dirty control player ruining all of my fun, you can check it out here ua-cam.com/video/SdPkViqNYq0/v-deo.html
I watched Crim's side of the matches first, I kept imagining Saffron Olive saying "Crimmm..." as they were playing.
i am not saying crim makes bad decks
but they seem to be decks that are unfun to play and less fun to play against
not also not great videos to watch either
@@durandle9226 Nah... Crim is *clearly* having a total blast playing his deck. Maybe his opponent's aren't enjoying themselves, but it's obvious how much fun he's having. lol
@@durandle9226 - I enjoy watching Crim play and I think that strategies like mill, stax, control, and lock deserve more respect.
@@durandle9226 Salty gamers require accompanying parent or adult
I love how Crim thought the leyline was a critical part of the deck and for Seth its just “it’s good for devotion”
To be fair, it also can just make everything elementals which makes Master buff everything including itself.
Oh nvm he's using anticipation not Transformation.
@@r4g1ngph03n1x Would also let him go underneath the sweepers which not having any counter magic is kinda needed against Crims deck
Where’s the game with the Leyline?
Yeah, being able to flash in the combo is nice, but it's mostly just for devotion.
Listening to Crims video in the background and just hearing him refer to Seth in what I remembered as an MTG Arena video caught me so off guard.
I like how Seth plotted, suspended, and foretold Mystic Reflection all in the same video.
Don’t forget he mentioned, foreshadowed, and hinted
Was nice seeing the matchup from both Seth's and Crim's sides.
Aren’t they of different games?
We played twice, I only included one of the matches in the video, I'm not sure what Crim did.
@@MTGGoldfishthese are actually different matches in crim’s match you dropped a turn 0 leyline and he blew it up with get lost
@@CountNikiko both the matches are in crim's video
It’s honestly a breath of fresh air to see Thoracle in a deck that isn’t a “yeet my library and Thoracle for win”. It’s such a nice card with a boring win con.
When the Seinfeld A and B plots converge.
"I can't date her, Jerry, she plays devotion"
"What's wrong with playing devotion?"
"I've never trusted it. Ramping is unseemly."
12-4 record with two of the losses being against Crim is wild. lmao
Love getting to see the perspectives of both ends.
Why is the best part of this video Seth just losing hope by seeing crims ID in the corner?
Thank you, Seth, for keeping that one lander. It was very wise of you and won you the game.
19:37 a fair and balanced reaction. sorry he did you like that, chief.
Foretelling can be done at instant speed. It only needs to be done on your turn specifically.
I"m so happy to see Master of waves get some representation!! This card was so fun in a mono blue devotion shell in standard with Mirror Mockery!
It's such a cool card!
They should splice the Crim vs Seth POVs together into one video for the luls.
That would be awesome! No need to do it every time they cross paths, but this one would be hilarious.
16:55 I saw seen this game few days ago on DrRuckus channel and he was like 'holy shit what happened' hahaha
"Hello everyone, it's Seth. Probably better known as Saffronoooooolive"
idk why, but I can't stop repeating that phrase
Vocal stim!
Crim: the bane of every deck that Seth plays
my friend is gonna love this video. he plays almost mono blue devotion with the same combo splashing green for risen reef to put your whole deck into your hand and win with thoracle. decent local results too
Got those games against Crimmothy?
19:45 no need to thank me
@@TheyCallMeDiothank you anyway 😏
One of them, yeah.
@@MTGGoldfish we see you cut the other one lol 😆
"Not even a big one"- as Seth puts down 98 power in creatures.
The public yearns for Crimothy
These user names are hilarious. The Asian vs. Yellow Ham and Saffron Omlet
We got a preview of this yesterday!
Been waiting for the Seth pov against Crim
If I had a nickel for everytime Seth gets matched with Crim playing control in an Against the Odds episode, I would have 2 nickels
Which isn't a lot but it's funny that it happened twice
I've run Phylath reflections, Hoplite reflections, and now we can run mono blue devotion reflections! It's one of my favourite cards, and it's great to see the archetype get some love!
As someone who plays the archetype a bunch, do you think Hare Apparent reflections would be any good?
@@LadyMapi If you want to do that, run Reverant Hoplite too. The problem with running U/W like this though, is devotion, which both hoplite and waves need to achieve a good combo.
Honestly, keep it mono blue and wait until you're against someone who's running the annoying hare. Reflections can target ANY creature on the battlefield, and that's why I love it so much :D
33:50 no cause theres still cards theyre missing so theres still a few things you can do in pioneer that you cant actually do in explorer. But as soon as the card pools fully match they should immediately start calling it Pioneer
My first thought was “No, because Crim can’t play Silumgar’s Scorn.” 😂
This is a deck I’ve wanted to build on arena for ages. I’m happy to see they finally got all the pieces on Arena.
Your boy punish this build twice lmao nah great video you guys are killing it... It just shows I watch all mtg goldfish video
41:00 That's not how that works, Mystic Reflection only makes the next instance of tokens into the target. So you'll get 16 more Master of Waves, and then have 16 + 7 (remaining from the first 8 on the stack) sets of 32 Elementals. Thus you end with 25 Master of Waves and 736 Elementals, which are 26/25's.
Not sure why this would be too hard for the game to calculate and give you token limit elementals? Game Rules Engine, what's so hard about this?
Yeah, you are right, i don't know what I was thinking lol
Yeah, Arena is "special" in that regard. It should indeed have no trouble calculating/resolving that... my best guess is that when they implemented the token limit, they didn't actually address the underlying issue (which is somehow related to calculating tokens), but just did the bare minimum and implemented a max number of tokens. Which is why things like Scute Swarm can STILL easily break the game.
I love the Goldfish mirror matches =D
19:37 Against Crim
Crim: it was for devotion?
Seth: always has been
That last game with the double reflection was awesome! I wish arena could handle stupid plays like that, they're my favorite.
Dr Ruckus
Crim
Yellowhat
Man just casually getting matched with all the creators lol
I mean yeah, pretty much everyone they invite to the early access is a content creatot
Having seen both sides of the Crim game, it was really fun but I do wish it had been a best-of-3 to see if the sideboard counters would make a difference against the wraths
sweet deck
greeeeg and then the error msg revealing who greg was made me LOL
Awesome we get to see the other side. This was a fun game to watch
I would say that was the "Crim de la Crim" ❤ for MTG Goldfish 28:38
So you like a Satanist that fucks kids and eats them?
41:45 i saw this coming before you even noticed you could double cast reflections.
In the Theros pre release, I opened master of waves and purphorose. Coolest thing ever ever seen in a limited deck
I saw your match against Dr Ruckus from the other perspective it was really shocking to see the combo! Awesome deck!
Has Leyline, plays master of waves and mystic reflection on his precombat phase instead of opponents end step.
Seth is the concrete wall that Wizards uses to crash test their Arena update vehicles 😂
Man, I thought reflection was good with battlesphere in my Urtet commander deck
at the end there, if the game didnt crash, the masters would summon elementals, not other master of waves, since mystic reflection only replaces the next instance of summoning
counter-counterpoint to not all pioneer cards are on arena: not all legacy/vintage cards are on mtgo
mystic reflection is awesome, its so flexible it can even deal with planeswalkers
30:00 The non-token Goblin Shaman is extremely cursed.
Also 36:40 "Sylvan Primordial: 1 top, 1 bottom"
Oh I love this combo remember pulling this off for one game when i first started playing modern. Lost almost every game until i played a control player that bricked hard. Lol
They release so many cards all the time i totally forgot this classic and one of my beloved cards for devotion is now on arena
Me, watching the intro: Wait isn’t that a must not a may-
Arena: *screaming*
mystic reflection is such a crazy card
some awesome wins here Seth, GG
Mystic Reflection is good, it has offense capabilies with MoW but also can work well turning an opponent's large threat into something small like a 1/0 elemental or some 1/1
I play a modern deck on mtgo that uses a similar strategy on deep forest hermit to make 16 6/6 squirrels. It's surprisingly effective, but I'm not sure why i never considered a mono blue version with master of waves.
One alt wincon i use is altar of dementia to mill out normal size decks that somehow prevent killing through combat damage, or that need an instant speed option.
17:43 "This is probably only like 200 (damage) or something." Yep, counting your opponent's 20 life before the attack and the one Elemental they blocked, your crew got in for 204 damage total.
Can't wait to hear the other side of the Crim fight where you kept bouncing their boy Jace
Didn't break it too much, Crim beat it twice 😂
we're reaching a point where you could do a greg compilation lol
What a great idea. Maybe one day.
Also 1of Cavern of Souls on merfolk could help against control without hurting your mana base. 2of if you are interested in taking some risk in a control heavy meta.
They newest blue leyline (Transformation iirc) might be of interest as well. You can make everthing an elemental and use MoW as an anthem on a stick which even buffs itself. In caseryou do not find reflection.
35:07 can’t forget about urza’s saga
14:00 isn't it bad ettiquite to concede before they have done their combo during early access.
It seems likely emergent wins but im still curious what three cards they pick to get their win.
YES! SPECTRAL SAILOR MY BELOVED, I ALWAYS KNEW YOU WERE MADE TO BE SOMETHING GREATER!!!!
Seth, Master of Waves (and my attention every time he posts)
Funny enough, this was one of the decks I was considering trying out on arena, though I used Leyline of Transformation to make everything get the lord bonus from Master of Waves.
41:00 So if I'm thinking about it right, there would be 23 instances of making 32 1/0s because the original 7 still need to resolve and will see 32 devotion and then the new 16 will do the same so that'll be 736 26/25s
The problem is they compound. The token Masters of Waves still count towards devotion, so with each one that comes in, the devotion goes up by 2. Maybe not as exponential as copying Doubling Seasons with Calix or the like, but it's not a straightforward problem. If I'm understanding it right anyway... definitely one of those situations where in paper Magic the opponent goes "I have no clue how much power you have, but I don't have an answer, so I'm just going to concede."
Back then there was also a blue Devotion deck by Travis Woo with Omniscience and the blue Myojin, too bad that the cards are not available on Arena :(
Was waiting for this after seeing the Crim PoV.
I don't mind the scooping, but I would like to have seen what the Emergent Ultimatum found.
OMG crazzy combo 😂 . I live it 😊
Would you not like a crashing drawbridge for haste?
Babe wake up, Seth POV vs Crim just dropped.
Thoracle for anything besides win on the spot combos,? Love to see it
I wonder of season of weaving would be good in this deck. Copying master of waves twice and drawing a card seems pretty good and you should be able to get the mana from nykthos
Could 3 tree city fit this deck? Wizard or elemental seems like it would be killer
I dream of doing the same thing with avenger of zendikar in commander one day
Oh my God, I want to try that.
Great content Seth
1:23 that's why I keep saying people should play Nykthos in leyline of the guildpact decks. It's 4 green mana symbols on one card!
Well
Green devotion with Leyline of the Guildpact was the level 1 broken thing to do with that Leyline
... so that's not really anything new?
@rekenner yeah but I mean in the 5 color domain decks. It's still just a land that taps for 2 out of the gate, so it's better than nothing, even in 5 color.
@@laeclorentzen6111 you don't see how a land that doesn't have land types is bad in domain and doesn't tap for colors is bad in a deck with strict color requirements? Domain aggro doesn't even have a use for the mana
@@rekenner Because you don't keep a non leyline hand? I'm happy to mulligan to 5 in domain
I love how I just watched crim's video and was like ooh
3:55 editor you missed a spot 😅
Was wondering what layline you were using ^^. Master of waves gets pretty big tbf
Criiiiiiiiiiiiiiim... We were doing cool things!
If you blink Master, do the tokens it already created die?
Mystic Reflection says "the next time one or more creatures or planesewalkers enter this turn", so it would have only made another 32 Master of Waves that last game. The other Masters would have all made elementals.
Finally got Seth’s perspective 😂😂
Seth is just glad to not have to play against Plague Engineer
With Pioneer Masters out, about how close is explorer to pioneer now? Are they cmpletely different metas?
Wow, this is the second time you had to fight crim
Seth: **Having fun teaching zoomers the power of Fish combos**
Crim: **Appears**
Seth: "NYuuuuu my fun shennigans are over." T u T
maybe i'm just dumb but does this combo work in most game modes? cannot get it to pop in historic.
So I'm just getting into arena and would love to give this a try but I don't see pioneer as an option. Am I missing something
I gotta wonder, when arena gets 'broken' like this, does this crash JUST the game they're playing,
or does it take down the entire program for whoever is logged in?
Is there a reason not to play sunken citadel?
Facing Crim? That's Goldfish on Goldfish crime.
I’m sure this would be an unpopular idea, but what if upon release cards were legal in Standard, Commander, and Pauper, and then they don’t rotate into Pioneer, Modern, Legacy, and Vintage until they rotate out of Standard.
I love mystic reflection so much
Master of Wave is coming to an unset soon where you have to get the LGS to perform the Wave for an instant win
I'm a simple man.
I see Explorer, I press like.
woah i thought i made a fun wizard version with harmonic prodigy this is busted and cool af