Interesting I know the word for "house" in 2 Tai-Kradai languages spoken in South China, the one in Zhuang is "Ran" which seems to be derived from "Rumaq" while the one in Hlai is "Blong" which seems to be derived from "Balay"
Balai Polis perhaps is Kantor Polisi (Police Office) in Indonesian. Some local languages in Indonesia also retain the distinction between *rumah and *balay, as in Balinese: jumah and balé; Javanese: omah and balé.
Woah, in Indonesia, you guys just refer to "police offices" when talking about police stations? That's interesting. Could there be any historical reasons for why this is the case?
@@naufalzaid7500 If you refer to the police headquarters on each administrative level, Kantor Polisi is used. Some abbreviations are occasionally used, like Mabes Polri (Markas Besar Polisi RI), Polda (Polisi Daerah), Polres (Polisi Resor), Polsek (Polisi Sektor)... If you mean about small building nearby any intersections, you name it as Pos Polisi (Police Officer Posts)... The same goes with Kantor Pemadam Kebakaran (Firefighters Headquarter Office), they also have Pos Pemadam Kebakaran. Anyway, Pemadam Kebakaran is abbreviated as "Damkar". So, we call it as "Pos Damkar, Kantor Damkar".
@naufalzaid7500 also Kantor was came from Dutch, "kantoor" which means a space where work is done, the position of leadership, agency positions and so on. In English, office has the meaning of a place to provide services, a position, or a workplace.
I wonder if the switch in meaning of the word "balay" happened when people started to gather at a prominent person's house for public meetings, or if a prominent person resided near or on a public hall because he owned the place.
My suspicion is that it came about because communal meetings kept taking place in different people's houses, so that any person's *rumah can on some occasion become a *balay for the purposes of the meeting. Over time, people started using *balay as the standard word for a 'house' for one if not both of these reasons. 1. A house belonging to other people is more likely to be referred to as a *balay, and one would only use *rumah to talk about their own home. 2. Having the resources to host a public meeting in your own house was a sign of wealth and power and so *balay became more prestigious than *rumah
I have a question, why is it that variants of Ruma(house) can be found in most Austronesian languages in Papua New Guinea nd melanesia, but in Polynesia the *Ruma* variants are almost non-existant, but the balay/fale variants take over instead?. check out these words for houss in PNG austronesian languages.. i cut the list short but the majority of words for house, in PNG Austronesian languages seems to be the the "Ruma" variants. And of course we also have the balay/hare/pal variants and the manuwa/anua variants too. Misima🇵🇬: Limi = house Wedau🇵🇬: Numa = house Tawala🇵🇬: Numa = house Kalo🇵🇬:Numa = house Aroma🇵🇬:Numa = house Kalo🇵🇬: Numa = house Doura🇵🇬: Ruma = house Motu🇵🇬:Ruma = house Kuni🇵🇬: Luma = house Lala🇵🇬: Luma = house Kuanua/Tolai🇵🇬: Pal = house Kilivila🇵🇬: Bwala = house Aniki🇵🇬: Bare = house Takuu🇵🇬: Hare = house Bwaidoga🇵🇬: Manua = house Koluwawa🇵🇬: Manuwa = house Diodio🇵🇬: Manuwa = house Molina🇵🇬: Vanua = house Dobuan🇵🇬: Anua = house Lamalele🇵🇬: Vanuga = house Roro/Waima🇵🇬: Isu = house Mekeo🇵🇬: 'E'a, Eka = house Sewa🇵🇬: Lobe = house Unit🇵🇬: Gode = house 'Auhelawa🇵🇬: Vada = house Bumama🇵🇬: Gada = house
When Austronesian speaking peoples from south east asia came they went to bismarck archipelago in papua new guinea, their they intermarried and developed a distinctive style of pottery now known as lapita.. then they spread to solomon islands vanuatu, fiji.. then finally expanding and settling in the polynesian region.. since they passed through PNG first it would make sense that png and melanesia in general would preserve more Austronesian words.
I'm no linguists but I also notice this particular change in Tagalog where the l disappears in most cases. e.g. telinga vs tainga bulan vs buwan jalan vs daan etc... Perhaps it's a native innovation.
The change is specific only to Tagalog and isn't found in other Central Philippine languages like Bikol or Hiligaynon. More accurately, it was a series of four sound changes that affected different sets of words at various times, including words that never had /l/. In the examples I give, the 'e' is a schwa that eventually became /i/ in Tagalog. NO. 1. The sequence /-vlv-/ changed to /-vhv-/ only if the primary stress fell on the second vowel. - *talínga, *bulán, *kulágo > *tahínga, *buhán, *kuhágo - *baláy, *belés, *seláng > *baháy, *behés, *seháng - *sulót, *dalán > *suhót, *dahán - *salég > *sahég(>sahíg) but NOT *pálay > *páhay for example. The proto-forms *bulán, *dalán seem to have moved stress very early from the original *búlan, *dálan. NO 2. Stress moved one syllable to the left in the second group of words, which then become immune from further sound changes. - *baháy, *behés, *seháng > báhay, *béhes(>bíhis), *séhang(>síhang) NO. 3. The /h/ in the sequence /-vhv-/ changed to the semiglides /w/ or /y/ if the surrounding vowels were not harmonic (i.e. not the same vowel) and at least one of these vowels was /u/ or /i/, - *tahínga, *buhán, *kuhágo > tayínga, buwán, kuwágo this rule also affecting other words with similar conditions, like *buhís, *d-al-uhá > buwís, daluwá~dalwá~dalawá. NO 4. If both vowels across /h/ were harmonic and the stress still fell on the second vowel, then /h/ changed to a glottal stop /ʔ/. - *suhót, *dahán > suʔót, daʔán
In Pangasinan, a northern Philippines language, "abong" is house and "baley" is village.
Interesting I know the word for "house" in 2 Tai-Kradai languages spoken in South China, the one in Zhuang is "Ran" which seems to be derived from "Rumaq" while the one in Hlai is "Blong" which seems to be derived from "Balay"
Balai Polis perhaps is Kantor Polisi (Police Office) in Indonesian.
Some local languages in Indonesia also retain the distinction between *rumah and *balay, as in Balinese: jumah and balé; Javanese: omah and balé.
Woah, in Indonesia, you guys just refer to "police offices" when talking about police stations? That's interesting.
Could there be any historical reasons for why this is the case?
@@naufalzaid7500 If you refer to the police headquarters on each administrative level, Kantor Polisi is used. Some abbreviations are occasionally used, like Mabes Polri (Markas Besar Polisi RI), Polda (Polisi Daerah), Polres (Polisi Resor), Polsek (Polisi Sektor)...
If you mean about small building nearby any intersections, you name it as Pos Polisi (Police Officer Posts)...
The same goes with Kantor Pemadam Kebakaran (Firefighters Headquarter Office), they also have Pos Pemadam Kebakaran. Anyway, Pemadam Kebakaran is abbreviated as "Damkar". So, we call it as "Pos Damkar, Kantor Damkar".
@@wolfthunder2526 That’s some interesting insight into the police divisions (or something like that) in Indonesia. Thanks!
@naufalzaid7500 also Kantor was came from Dutch, "kantoor" which means a space where work is done, the position of leadership, agency positions and so on. In English, office has the meaning of a place to provide services, a position, or a workplace.
I wonder if the switch in meaning of the word "balay" happened when people started to gather at a prominent person's house for public meetings, or if a prominent person resided near or on a public hall because he owned the place.
My suspicion is that it came about because communal meetings kept taking place in different people's houses, so that any person's *rumah can on some occasion become a *balay for the purposes of the meeting. Over time, people started using *balay as the standard word for a 'house' for one if not both of these reasons.
1. A house belonging to other people is more likely to be referred to as a *balay, and one would only use *rumah to talk about their own home.
2. Having the resources to host a public meeting in your own house was a sign of wealth and power and so *balay became more prestigious than *rumah
In Sundanese Imah = House, Bale = A place or building where people gather, it can be mosque (Bale aweuhan), it can be library (bale pabukon), etc
I have a question, why is it that variants of Ruma(house) can be found in most Austronesian languages in Papua New Guinea nd melanesia, but in Polynesia the *Ruma* variants are almost non-existant, but the balay/fale variants take over instead?.
check out these words for houss in PNG austronesian languages.. i cut the list short but the majority of words for house, in PNG Austronesian languages seems to be the the "Ruma" variants. And of course we also have the balay/hare/pal variants and the manuwa/anua variants too.
Misima🇵🇬: Limi = house
Wedau🇵🇬: Numa = house
Tawala🇵🇬: Numa = house
Kalo🇵🇬:Numa = house
Aroma🇵🇬:Numa = house
Kalo🇵🇬: Numa = house
Doura🇵🇬: Ruma = house
Motu🇵🇬:Ruma = house
Kuni🇵🇬: Luma = house
Lala🇵🇬: Luma = house
Kuanua/Tolai🇵🇬: Pal = house
Kilivila🇵🇬: Bwala = house
Aniki🇵🇬: Bare = house
Takuu🇵🇬: Hare = house
Bwaidoga🇵🇬: Manua = house
Koluwawa🇵🇬: Manuwa = house
Diodio🇵🇬: Manuwa = house
Molina🇵🇬: Vanua = house
Dobuan🇵🇬: Anua = house
Lamalele🇵🇬: Vanuga = house
Roro/Waima🇵🇬: Isu = house
Mekeo🇵🇬: 'E'a, Eka = house
Sewa🇵🇬: Lobe = house
Unit🇵🇬: Gode = house
'Auhelawa🇵🇬: Vada = house
Bumama🇵🇬: Gada = house
The manuwa/anua variants all sound like they came from proto-Malayo-Polynesian *banua, although I'm not 100% sure on that.
Interesting 🤔
And what about the Ruma/Numa type words? Proto-Austronesian?@@brianocampo7981
@languagestolearn8155
When Austronesian speaking peoples from south east asia came they went to bismarck archipelago in papua new guinea, their they intermarried and developed a distinctive style of pottery now known as lapita.. then they spread to solomon islands vanuatu, fiji.. then finally expanding and settling in the polynesian region.. since they passed through PNG first it would make sense that png and melanesia in general would preserve more Austronesian words.
Where does the Bikol word "Harong" come from?
Motu PNG we say ruma = house
Firefighter is bumbero in Filipino. It came from Spanish.
Balay in Cebuano
In Binubolinao we say bali (baLI)=house, babali (babaLI)=town, and Ibali (iBAli)=Manila or city
Bahay kubo
nice! what's with the /-l-/ > /-h-/ change in tagalog? seems to me like /-l-/ is retained in some cases
I'm no linguists but I also notice this particular change in Tagalog where the l disappears in most cases.
e.g.
telinga vs tainga
bulan vs buwan
jalan vs daan
etc...
Perhaps it's a native innovation.
The change is specific only to Tagalog and isn't found in other Central Philippine languages like Bikol or Hiligaynon. More accurately, it was a series of four sound changes that affected different sets of words at various times, including words that never had /l/. In the examples I give, the 'e' is a schwa that eventually became /i/ in Tagalog.
NO. 1. The sequence /-vlv-/ changed to /-vhv-/ only if the primary stress fell on the second vowel.
- *talínga, *bulán, *kulágo > *tahínga, *buhán, *kuhágo
- *baláy, *belés, *seláng > *baháy, *behés, *seháng
- *sulót, *dalán > *suhót, *dahán
- *salég > *sahég(>sahíg)
but NOT *pálay > *páhay for example. The proto-forms *bulán, *dalán seem to have moved stress very early from the original *búlan, *dálan.
NO 2. Stress moved one syllable to the left in the second group of words, which then become immune from further sound changes.
- *baháy, *behés, *seháng > báhay, *béhes(>bíhis), *séhang(>síhang)
NO. 3. The /h/ in the sequence /-vhv-/ changed to the semiglides /w/ or /y/ if the surrounding vowels were not harmonic (i.e. not the same vowel) and at least one of these vowels was /u/ or /i/,
- *tahínga, *buhán, *kuhágo > tayínga, buwán, kuwágo
this rule also affecting other words with similar conditions, like *buhís, *d-al-uhá > buwís, daluwá~dalwá~dalawá.
NO 4. If both vowels across /h/ were harmonic and the stress still fell on the second vowel, then /h/ changed to a glottal stop /ʔ/.
- *suhót, *dahán > suʔót, daʔán