Better Espresso? Deeper Puck!

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  • Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
  • In this video, we take a close look at how bed depth affects extraction. Specifically, comparing espresso extractions between 49mm and 58mm baskets and how bed depth affects the resulting data, both objective and subjective. I hope this video was helpful!
    Link to data:
    tinyurl.com/mr...
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 528

  • @ohararp
    @ohararp 9 днів тому +35

    I am a data scientist and love your charts and control of experiments! Also love coffee!

    • @LanceHedrick
      @LanceHedrick  9 днів тому +5

      Thank you!!!

    • @davidpetty5558
      @davidpetty5558 12 годин тому

      @@LanceHedrick
      Hey Lance! I have a 20mm Pullman and want to upgrade to Weber basket. Last video you said that aspect ratio might play a thing, in this video you say it might be just the depth.
      I’m leaning towards 24g Weber because that’s less coffee per shot than a 28lol. Do you think 28g would be significantly better than a 24g due to closer aspect ratio to 49/58mm?

  • @FatNorthernBigot
    @FatNorthernBigot 9 днів тому +240

    We use a QWERTY keyboard for historical reasons, not because it's the best layout. Perhaps we have 58mm baskets for the same reason.

    • @ChiMickE
      @ChiMickE 9 днів тому +18

      It certainly is the reason I chose 58mm: more options, easier modding, ...

    • @FatNorthernBigot
      @FatNorthernBigot 9 днів тому +4

      @ChiMickE Yeah. To a certain extent, we're locked in

    • @Avruthlelbh
      @Avruthlelbh 9 днів тому +5

      Ever since switching to Colemak-CA (Curl + Angle mod for standard Colemak, often called "Colemak-dh" for reasons), my experience typing has improved dramatically. The transition only took about a week to surpass my maximum typing speed, and my subjective experience when typing has been significantly more comfortable.
      I would not mind a transition to 49mm baskets, but unlike changing keyboard layouts, which you can do in software relatively easily for free, we could be talking anywhere from a couple bucks to thousands for how much it'd cost to switch over, depending on the person. It'd be a lot harder for an individual to shift.
      That being said, I have a feeling that it'd be easier for the coffee community to switch over, since the proportion of enthusiasts to 'normies' in espresso absolutely dwarves the proportion of keyboard enthusiasts to the entire rest of the human population that uses a keyboard. More people would be willing to put in the money and work, and every individual person making that switch would influence the market more and more.

    • @thebitterfig9903
      @thebitterfig9903 9 днів тому +4

      It’s certainly easier to change baskets than keyboards, tho.
      There’s literally no way I could relearn to type, but as a consumer if I wanted to switch machines to one with a “better” basket size, the cost of accessories is a pretty small part of the cost of a machine switch.
      For a manufacturer, making a different machine or accessory in a different size is non-trivial, but certainly plausible.

    • @curtislayne
      @curtislayne 9 днів тому +1

      @@Avruthlelbh Colemak is awesome. I switched over about 8 years ago and my hands and wrists feel much better.

  • @sedelstein
    @sedelstein 9 днів тому +20

    Nice video. 49mm is definitely better. For those who don't want to spend $200 on a step down basket, you can build your own, like I did. Take an old single- dose 58mm basket that you consider useless, hollow it out with a 2" hole punch, slide an o-ring under a Europiccola 49mm basket and slip it in. Voila. The contraption fits into any of my 58mm Bezzera PFs, and works like a charm!

    • @caycaycoffee
      @caycaycoffee 8 днів тому +4

      I did same but with the flair pro 2 basket. Lol. Currently in process of launching a stepped basket for retrofit to 58mm that shouldn't break the bank!

    • @a3455666
      @a3455666 7 днів тому

      ​@@caycaycoffee That does sound interesting! Following...

  • @sympathetic_crustacean
    @sympathetic_crustacean 2 дні тому +1

    Another hack: pull ristrettos on your 49mm basket. INSANE body and vibrant flavors. Try it if you haven't yet. Not just on Vivace or Illy-style roasts, on lighter roasted as well. I'm usually 18g in and somewhere around 22-24g out.

  • @eggsdee9110
    @eggsdee9110 9 днів тому +64

    Now I feel my 100$ Flair Neo Flex is endgame lol. 39mm basket.

    • @simmi352
      @simmi352 8 днів тому +3

      Uh oh, more money spent on coffee equipment...

    • @tahabakhsh3806
      @tahabakhsh3806 8 днів тому +3

      Unironically, seen multiple posts of flair neo flex users struggling to dial in on the 58

    • @dnullify100
      @dnullify100 8 днів тому +2

      ​@@tahabakhsh3806 it was definitely harder to dial in with a 58 coming from the pro-2. But once you get the hang of it you can get dialed in with fewer shots

    • @caycaycoffee
      @caycaycoffee 8 днів тому +3

      Pro 2 and three have the 46mm diameter. Pretty much Lance summarises it exactly, easier dial in, forgiving and great tasting. Far out!

    • @Genuss_ToBi
      @Genuss_ToBi 7 днів тому +1

      My first Machine was a 51mm LaPavoni. Then a Sage Barista Pro, Gaggia Classic, then a Quickmill Orione 3000, Then a Lelit Elizabeth, then a Gastro Machine with a 58mm Bosco group then i realized, the more "nice rated" Equipment i get the less i am satisfied.
      Actually i own a LaPavoni Europiccola 51mm, a Elaktra Micro Casa Leva 49mm and a Flair Neo Flex 39mm (which produced so sour shots...)
      It took me a while to understand how this little Bastard works. I needed this Video to think different about puck geometry.
      I had to reduce the dose from 13g to 7 gramm to get good results on a dark "south italian blend".
      So yes, the flair neo flex is about as good in shot quality then all the other machines i had before!

  • @andreashunter4513
    @andreashunter4513 9 днів тому +2

    Half time time i listen to you and understand about 32.6% of what you are talking about. But I still love listening to the blend of passion and informed insights. And i trust you because you follow the data and base things on evidence. You're a huge plus to the home coffee community.

  • @redfoxdude
    @redfoxdude 9 днів тому +5

    I have honestly had such killer shots with a 49mm stepdown basket. I can grind so much coarser (~50μm --> ~100μm+), to a point where my burrs have a much more balanced presentation. Love your data-driven approach, Lance!

  • @chadw6593
    @chadw6593 8 днів тому +3

    Wow! Lance this is really great. When I first got my 9Barista (53mm), people thought I was nuts by starting my dosing at 20g. I thought I didn’t know enough to explain why it tasted better.

  • @mgbaron
    @mgbaron 9 днів тому +2

    I converted my GS3 to 49mm a couple of weeks ago and it’s breathed new life into the machine. I was pulling almost everything on my strietman until the sworks conversion kit.

  • @GermanoRibeiroNeto
    @GermanoRibeiroNeto 9 днів тому +86

    I hope the basket and espresso tools manufacturers see this video. It's easier to dial an espresso with a blindfold than to find anything in 49mm

    • @Simply_CH23
      @Simply_CH23 9 днів тому +1

      IMS baskets FTW. using a tripple with my La Pavoni

    • @birdieflow8969
      @birdieflow8969 9 днів тому

      I bought a used Elektra MCAL (49mm) a year ago and love it for that reason. Wouldn't want to switch back to 58. The Strietman precision basket is really good. And there are great fitting tampers available too.

    • @Luka-kb5tk
      @Luka-kb5tk 9 днів тому

      @@Simply_CH23but to utilise a triple you would need to do a micro-pull (Fellini) to get the volume, which introduces temperature issues.

    • @Simply_CH23
      @Simply_CH23 9 днів тому +1

      @ I usually do 18 grams in, 34 out in around 45 seconds. grouphead temp around 95°C, espresso shot 71°C. Works well for me.

    • @Simply_CH23
      @Simply_CH23 9 днів тому

      @ I usually do 18 grams in, 34 out in around 45 seconds. grouphead temp around 95°C, espresso shot 71°C. Works well for me.

  • @joanne6408
    @joanne6408 5 днів тому +1

    Interesting chart on dose/basket size. I’ve been using 18-18.5 grams in my 54mm with good results, after slightly increasing grind size and temp. Now I know why. Thanks!

  • @rand9176
    @rand9176 7 днів тому +1

    Really interesting. I bought a 22g VST when I first bought my e61 years back purely because I thought I’d like a bigger dose. Over the years tried 18s 15s and 20… always went back to the 22g because it was just so much easier to dial in and generally preferred the cups, never thought too much about it - but this video explains a lot.

  • @cathaytsn8366
    @cathaytsn8366 9 днів тому +7

    So excited dor this video. I waited so long and it finally came. Love you ,Lance

  • @Staybrown11
    @Staybrown11 9 днів тому +4

    Thank you Lance for your passion for helping others love coffee. I got the 49mm step down basket as well as a Bluetooth transmitter for the pressure profiling on the flair 58. Zero inconsistency since the 49mm. Easier to pressure profile and hit blooming marks. @flair make a larger brew chamber so we can do longer 1 to 5 shots and a 49mm basket. It’s a game changer.

    • @Dangkles
      @Dangkles 9 днів тому +1

      my only REAL gripe about my flair 58. I'll have to try the step down basket. Any suggestions?

    • @Staybrown11
      @Staybrown11 9 днів тому +1

      @@Dangkles i got the Bookoo Bluetooth transmitter and replaced the flair pressure gage. It helped a lot in getting tastier shots because it shows exactly where you are on a graph. It’s more accurate then the flair gage. Also, I know it’s expensive but I got the sworks 49mm step down basket. I also got the puck screen mesh. It really transforms the manner in which your hand movement feels on the handle. It’s so easy now to hit blooming/ londinium profiles and turbo shots.

  • @Conservator.
    @Conservator. 9 днів тому +4

    14:04 Just looking at that beautifully restored machine makes me smile inside. 😊

  • @GodfreeLouis
    @GodfreeLouis 9 днів тому +32

    It only took 3 months of using an espresso machine (Flair58) to realize that puck depth is the biggest factor in overall cup quality. A bigger dose makes a better cup. No questions.

    • @annaheya2109
      @annaheya2109 9 днів тому +1

      I second that 💯

    • @sb.6606
      @sb.6606 9 днів тому +1

      How big are you going on your 58? Which basket do you prefer for this?

    • @GodfreeLouis
      @GodfreeLouis 9 днів тому +2

      @@sb.6606 the smaller basket seems to suck. Can’t get any consistency and even full doesn’t give me as good of a shot when using the bigger/deeper basket. On the large basket I can get away with a minimum of 24 grams of a local (Costa Rica) med-dark roasted coffee. 8bar, around 40 seconds.

    • @GodfreeLouis
      @GodfreeLouis 9 днів тому

      @@sb.6606I would like to go more but it’s just me. It’s too much coffee for me to always do that so I limit my espressos. 😢

    • @andrewswingler
      @andrewswingler 9 днів тому +2

      This can't be true by definition. Too thin is too thin. E.g 5mm thick no worky. Conversely, too thick will be too thick. E.g. 50mm thick no worky. There will be a sweet spot in between. Somewhere. The puck thickness between 50mm and 58mm varies by only ~30% for the same dose. It's not a dramatically huge difference. The question of where that sweet spot might be is a good one.

  • @ianyorke2617
    @ianyorke2617 9 днів тому +35

    My De'longhi Dedica (51mm) EC885 with IMS basket, bottomless portafilter, puck screen and 3 tip steam nozzle, coupled with a DF54 grinder, looks like a very cost effective espresso set up 👍

    • @alkompvideo
      @alkompvideo 9 днів тому +1

      Exactly

    • @wpwentzell
      @wpwentzell 9 днів тому +5

      If only it had better temp and pressure regulation, it would be perfect.

    • @Limorainer
      @Limorainer 9 днів тому +1

      Second this but with the ECP35.31/3420 - daily deliciousness. Temp and pressure control would be the cherry on top!

    • @andrewpoloyan3590
      @andrewpoloyan3590 9 днів тому +7

      Someone at Delonghi with its entire 51mm product line is surely quietly smiling watching this video. :)

    • @fecorekasi
      @fecorekasi 9 днів тому +1

      Delonghi ecp here, no flat puck pls 😂

  • @stirfryjedi
    @stirfryjedi 9 днів тому +73

    Waking up every morning to brew 20g on my stock 54mm Breville portafilter, suddenly feeling quite too satisfied for my own good. :-)

    • @LanceHedrick
      @LanceHedrick  9 днів тому +30

      This is the way

    • @windowdoog
      @windowdoog 9 днів тому +12

      @@LanceHedrickbro you hype the Gagguino project for so long you sold me on trying it. Then you release this the day I am buying everything. Peak troll work. 😂

    • @samlcyo2
      @samlcyo2 9 днів тому +5

      @@windowdoog I wouldn't be too worried if I were you. There will be an adapter out for the gaggia in no time lol.

    • @crossmission
      @crossmission 9 днів тому +1

      I've been doing 20-22g for over a year now on my Breville Barista Touch, using a 24g VST basket. I'm not going back to 16-18 ever.
      If the BT dies and I can afford it I'm definitely going Linea Micra R next.
      I can get a used single group San Marco or La Spaziale S1 but it's going to be a pain to pay the electric for it plus having to wait for the warm up time.

    • @beefburito
      @beefburito 8 днів тому +2

      My old Saeco machine just detonated itself after like 15 years of use (I had it for 5, so it served me well as a free machine) so I bought a Breville Bambino Plus. At first I was a bit disappointed that it was "only" 54mm with all the hype about 58mm, but as I've gotten better with it over the past month (and switched to a naked portafilter and IMS basket) I've been getting pretty decent espresso for my palate (admittedly as a bit of an espresso noob but all around nerd).
      I now feel 100% vindicated.

  • @skyudoodles
    @skyudoodles 9 днів тому +13

    THANK YOU for not blinding us with white graphs and data screen flashbangs 💕

  • @5naxalotl
    @5naxalotl 9 днів тому +3

    a fair comparison between two diameters would involve reducing pressure on the larger diameter by a factor of d1/d2 squared (ie linear proportion to depth). the same pressure over a thicker bed reduces the per-centimeter pressure difference on a unit of puck volume

    • @johnrobinson6882
      @johnrobinson6882 9 днів тому

      His puck depths were identical for each basket diameter. That’s what he kept constant across the rows of his test tables

  • @Psychoh90
    @Psychoh90 9 днів тому +1

    Thank you a lot Lance for this in depth view of nowadays considered traditional or better historical espresso.
    For the sake of adding a comment I would say I use a 14 gram dose double shot on a 58mm because I cannot have more than that and also because, being Italian, before becoming a home barista, I was and still am used to single shot 7/8gr.
    I have a 15 gr VST precision basket and use 14gr most of the time, with some coffee 15gr as well.

  • @haydonwolski8528
    @haydonwolski8528 7 днів тому +2

    Your comments around turbo shots is surprising. I remember from you turbo shots video 3ish years ago you praise the shots albeit a bit of drop in body. Am I misremembering 😂

  • @cricocoo
    @cricocoo 9 днів тому +2

    PhD worthy dedication to the measurements! Of course some GC-MS might give you some more insights on the extraction rates 🤓

  • @sympathetic_crustacean
    @sympathetic_crustacean 2 дні тому

    Huge for me as someone caffeine sensitive is that with my 49mm basket I can use less coffee to get the same result in the cup. 18g in the 49mm gets me unctuous espresso without having to resort to crazy doses.

  • @celticdr
    @celticdr 7 днів тому

    Why aren't more people subscribed to Lance's channel?
    He's putting in the hard yards and unlocking the keys to better espresso, thanks Lance!

  • @jack.m.rogers
    @jack.m.rogers 3 дні тому

    I'm convinced. I wonder if and when the industry will come around and this will become mainstream.

  • @rejected02
    @rejected02 8 днів тому

    20g in 40g out on my Breville barista pro with a normcore bottomless porta filter every day and I feel happy as a clam. But this is great research. Thanks Lance. 😊

  • @InspiredByBrad
    @InspiredByBrad 7 днів тому

    Great info, that makes sense! This is good news for those of us starting out with 51mm machines, getting great shots.

  • @tentimestwenty
    @tentimestwenty 7 днів тому

    I agree with all of this and it makes even more difference with beginners. It's just way way easier to make a good shot on a smaller diameter portafilter or with more grinds on a bigger one. The problems with low dose and channeling on a wide diameter are horrific if you are randomly going about making espresso.

  • @scotthep
    @scotthep 9 днів тому

    I use 21g on a 55mm basket on a lever. When I switched from a 58mm basket on my previous machine, I notice I can dial in easier, and rarely have nearly the amount of inconsistencies I did on the 58mm. I assumed this might be related to the lever, but perhaps it's more likely attributed to the smaller/deeper basket. I don't have hard data, but I definitely agree with your assessment.

  • @Father_Celeron
    @Father_Celeron 9 днів тому +1

    I also found a sweet spot on weber 58mm unibasket to be in 20.5 - 22.5g range and got a 24g version to accomodate for puck screen as well. I pulled a shot with 21g -> 57g out with over 24% extraction in 25 seconds. No reason to throw away your 58mm machine, all you need is precision basket and a good grinder. Also I think many people dose 18g or less even in precision baskets with wide bottom because they saw some old video of James Hoffmann telling 18g is good and that they can always underdose and grind finer so they got stuck at 18g of coffee like it was some constant in physics like a Pi number.

  • @jeffandersen6233
    @jeffandersen6233 9 днів тому +4

    You have the data and I've personally found the 51mm on my cheapo Delonghi 3630 makes good espresso. I find shots as good ss and easier to dial in than my previously owned Rancillio Silvia. I just wish i could find a really nicely made bottomless 51mm 2 eared portafilter in a hefty stainless steel.
    I'm hoping your analysis will push the market to smaller diameter options.

    • @wpwentzell
      @wpwentzell 9 днів тому

      Interesting that you find it easy to dial in, since that machine is all over the place with pressure and temperature. I have a Stilosa and it's a real pain to dial in compared to even something like a Breville Bambino or Gaggia classic pro.

    • @jeffandersen6233
      @jeffandersen6233 9 днів тому

      @wpwentzell a dr54 really has helped along with good luck screens. If my morning Latte or Capachino makes me smile, I'm good.

  • @chrismonroe4855
    @chrismonroe4855 9 днів тому +1

    'Conjecture' ≠ Convention or lock-in, the latter being more responsible 58mm fixation. I've had similar thoughts based on Flair Classic, Gaggia factory, Saeco/Starbucks semiauto machine, all w/smaller, deeper baskets. Consistently amazing shots from all, compared to normal variance w/58mm Silvia. An important topic as beans become costlier/rarer and we're forced to make great shots with less. I can't justify triple shots, however awesome.

  • @jarrettcorley1999
    @jarrettcorley1999 9 днів тому

    Lance, you are definitely onto something. I have been messing with this (on a smaller scale than you) and my taste-bud refractometer doesn’t find the shots from the two different baskets to be the same even with same puck depths when dialed in. To me, the 49mm step down basket is better every single time compared to the 58mm even with the same bed depth. I don’t know what it is, but there is something else going on. Can’t wait to see how this plays out.

    • @LanceHedrick
      @LanceHedrick  9 днів тому +1

      With that, you have loads more head space on step down so not comparable. But you are doing like 15g vs 21g? Not matching doses?

    • @jarrettcorley1999
      @jarrettcorley1999 8 днів тому

      For me it holds up for both. The difference between matched doses is obvious. The difference in something like a 14/20 comparison to me is more subtle but it’s there. With same shot time, the flow rate in the 58mm basket is faster and the flavors in within acidity structure are sharper (but not necessarily in a good or well integrated way). There’s also an increased fine texture that can be felt which I have thought of of as increased fines migration into the cup from the greater surface area in the 58mm. I haven’t bothered to compare the two with matched flow rates. The integration of the flavor, texture, body, and balance comes out to be a more harmonious thing to me with the 49 step down. One thing I can’t control for as well with my setup is temperature, though. I’m using a flair 58+. With the increased headspace in the 49 the flair can hold more water… maybe a temp stability issue. Who knows… either way I’m glad you started talking about this.

  • @famistudio
    @famistudio 9 днів тому

    I had the chance to try SO Coffee last June when visiting Portugal. The washed Columbian they had at that time was incredible (Salado Blanco or something like that), I brought back a couple bags home.

  • @lokmtb8503
    @lokmtb8503 9 днів тому +2

    I'd love to see a similar comparison of blind tasting between the gaggiuinno and the descent. I feel like you've alluded to this comparison in previous videos. Obviously not explicitly. But a boy could dream

  • @davidgalbreath3477
    @davidgalbreath3477 9 днів тому

    Finding this fascinating because I have a Breville machine at home and a Delonghi at work and the later has a narrow deeper basket and I have always found it better for extraction than the Breville.

  • @adamton7274
    @adamton7274 7 днів тому

    I was inspired by your HiBrew review i got their 51mm machine and got a bottomless portafilter and deeper baskets and I brew something tasty everyday 😊

  • @wulfrion
    @wulfrion 9 днів тому +2

    I have found that in my 18-20g basket 58mm, I usually do 21-21.5g and a puck screen on top, and that usually gets me the best taste. At first I thought that I was doing something wrong, because of the weird feeling of "Oh its an 18g-20g basket, yet i am going OVER the 20g not staying in the 18-20g range", but after trying to dial in 20g on a variety of coffees, i ended up finding that overdosing, but going slightly coarser grind would always produce a better tasting shot, and I would waste 1-2 less does per coffee to dial it in, which saves me the extra 20-40g of coffee each time. We take those.

  • @alkompvideo
    @alkompvideo 9 днів тому +1

    Thanks, Lance, for being such a rebel in espresso domain! It is important to never take for granted any "standard", "tradition", "experience of prior generations", etc. Independent, unbiased thinking is the key!

  • @lung21
    @lung21 5 днів тому

    I am using flair pro 3 46mm. I love it. Good espresso every time

  • @propertwb
    @propertwb 9 днів тому

    Thanks, Lance. I will try a larger basket on my new machine rather than switching everything out. 😬 Keep up the great work. I appreciate it.

  • @VarmDild
    @VarmDild 8 днів тому

    This is nice! I really like that you are challenging the dogmas with science and rationality... The problem is that a lot of the people supporting 58mm probably won't change their mind based on science or rational arguments. Like defending Sage to a Rocket enthusiast who claims that "Italian machines are just better".

  • @travdanek
    @travdanek 9 днів тому

    Been pulling an 18g, 25-30sec shot with 36g out on my Rok Espresso GC 49mm for years. Always good. Easy to dial in when the arms are doing the work💪🏻☕️

  • @plantex625
    @plantex625 9 днів тому +11

    Some quick math on cost of updosing: If you are buying 300g bags of coffee, you get 16 shots dosing at 18g and 13 shots dosing at 22g. Assuming the bag of coffee costs $25 that means youre paying $1.50 per shot at 18g and $1.83 per shot at 22g, which is an additional $243 per year in coffee if you pull 2 shots a day

    • @LanceHedrick
      @LanceHedrick  9 днів тому +10

      @@plantex625 which is why you go smaller diameter.

    • @plantex625
      @plantex625 9 днів тому +1

      @@LanceHedrick Manual lever under $1000 with smaller diameter and heating capabilities doesnt exist though?

    • @ac27934
      @ac27934 9 днів тому +3

      @@plantex625 Sounds like you already know you might want to consider removing your heating constraint then

    • @LanceHedrick
      @LanceHedrick  9 днів тому +1

      @@plantex625 used la pavoni can be found for 200-300. Easy.

    • @LanceHedrick
      @LanceHedrick  9 днів тому +1

      @@plantex625 even better is elektra micro casa. Used under 1000. Same with ponte vecchio export.

  • @kevinbutler9786
    @kevinbutler9786 9 днів тому

    I bought a flair pro a couple years ago to get into home espresso because I thought that a manual lever machine would allow me to learn the art of pulling in the quickest and cheapest way. I thought, I'm just going to get the pro and if I like it I'll get the 58 later. Never got the 58 and have noticed that whenever I use any 58mm machine, it takes me longer to dial it in. I didn't know why but I always proffered a deeper grind bed. It's cool seeing the science explained to my uneducated opinion.

  • @CASTIELSCOFFEEBAR
    @CASTIELSCOFFEEBAR 9 днів тому

    I use a La Spaziale in my coffee bar. 53mm basket. My recipe is 16g 27-30 secs shot time and 32-35 out. I find its consistent all day and had lots of complments on flavour

  • @wretchedpkmn
    @wretchedpkmn 9 днів тому +1

    So much knowledge is just passed around and backed with the wisdom of "well everyone knows that x..." and it all needs to be questioned for this very reason. This is a problem in food/cooking as well.
    I was watching another coffee content creator and they swore that pulling a ristretto versus a lungo for 2 milk drinks of the same total volume would make it "stronger," and they really didn't want to hear otherwise because that's what they've always known and it makes sense if you don't think about it too hard 🤷🏻

  • @albertomarino242
    @albertomarino242 9 днів тому

    The info on the difference is very interesting

  • @novakovicmarkoo
    @novakovicmarkoo 9 днів тому

    I just pulled a 26g shot, about 70g out. The grind was coarser than usual, the extraction time was longer than usual, but man, this was the tastiest cup of coffee this year. I'm blown away 🚀🚀🚀

  • @monkeydluffypvp
    @monkeydluffypvp 9 днів тому

    i really enjoy those diameter comparison videos, i would like to see how delonghi 51mm performs vs breville/sage 54mm or breville+delonghi vs gaggia+rancilio

  • @ICanBeWrong
    @ICanBeWrong 8 днів тому

    Congrats on being able to say Rui with an almost native accent! Oh and great video as usual :)

  • @theodorrrrrrrrr
    @theodorrrrrrrrr 9 днів тому +3

    7:48 just grabbing a pinch like that is so unhinged hahahahah

  • @Amarylyth
    @Amarylyth 9 днів тому +43

    Babe, wake up, new espresso update just got in

  • @dwilson21267
    @dwilson21267 9 днів тому

    My recipe at home seems to back this up to some degree. I found the best amount of coffee for my starting point for most beans in my 58mm setup is 23gr. and I pull a large shot at about 2.5 to 1 so 55 to 58 gr in 20-25 secs using medium light to medium roasts.

  • @RottingYoda
    @RottingYoda 9 днів тому +2

    I've been using my Lelit Anita 57mm for 4 years now always wondering, "should I just upgrade up a 58mm machine". I guess not.
    Instead, after watching Lance's videos, I grind much courser and have up dosed from 14 to 17 grams. My espresso quality has increased dramatically.

    • @dr.angerous
      @dr.angerous 9 днів тому

      Tf u talking about 57 mm is the same you idiot

    • @dr.angerous
      @dr.angerous 9 днів тому

      Idiot

    • @dr.angerous
      @dr.angerous 9 днів тому

      The 57mm is the same, tf u talking about

    • @RottingYoda
      @RottingYoda 9 днів тому

      @@dr.angerous 57 = 58. Solid Maths. Gold star

    • @dr.angerous
      @dr.angerous 9 днів тому

      @@RottingYoda ur brain damaged. That's alright. Get some help

  • @dzezydzerk
    @dzezydzerk 8 днів тому

    it is interesting i have same feeling, i use gaggiuino 58 mm and la pavoni 49 and really find in 49 deeper flavours. only downside of la pavoni is temperature stability but if you don need to make more than 2,3 coffees it is fine.

  • @Filip-t7h
    @Filip-t7h 9 днів тому +23

    Now we are waiting for an analysis of the ideal dose for V60.

    • @LanceHedrick
      @LanceHedrick  9 днів тому +19

      Imo 15-22g

    • @Filip-t7h
      @Filip-t7h 9 днів тому

      @LanceHedrick 🥰

    • @tomayton9702
      @tomayton9702 9 днів тому +2

      @@LanceHedrick is this something you’ve “rigorously” tested?

    • @mrfrantakiller
      @mrfrantakiller 9 днів тому

      Would that depend on the size? 02 vs 04 for instance. I'm making 48g pour overs in mine, could be i should be doing two rounds instead? Could be very interesting data

    • @Filip-t7h
      @Filip-t7h 9 днів тому

      @@mrfrantakiller you should make it in two batches.

  • @user-vs8wu7ds4w
    @user-vs8wu7ds4w 4 дні тому

    Just got the normcore 54mm 18g high extraction basket for breville BP, i use 18.8g of coffee 74g out in 30sec

  • @billhendrix4125
    @billhendrix4125 7 днів тому

    When I bought my machine, I came really close to getting a La Spaziale machine with a 53mm portafilter. But so many out there make it seem like 58mm is the only option if you’re really “serious.” I did read where a lot of folks with those machines say it’s more consistent and easier to dial in than with 58mm machines they’ve owned.

  • @KanielD
    @KanielD 9 днів тому +3

    I use a flair 58 daily, however I use my Pro 2 with my more expensive coffee because it is always better. I’ve always thought it was due to the diameter

    • @albertodepa
      @albertodepa 9 днів тому

      Same here. Bought the 58 thinking was an upgrade. Luckily I haven’t sold my pro 2 yet.

  • @rmainr9495
    @rmainr9495 6 днів тому

    I use a Flair58. Have really enjoyed 23g doses but dosing over 20g on Flair gets tricky because you run out of water and pressure during the shot. Going to try the sworks step down basket. Justifying the cost by saying I'll be using less coffee when in reality i'm also excited to try 20g doses in the stepdown basket too 😄

  • @adamschoeman4098
    @adamschoeman4098 9 днів тому +1

    Can concur. The only thing that comes close to my Flair Pro2 is my Olympia. Fully expect to get the step down when my Meticulous arrives.

  • @kofeyh
    @kofeyh 9 днів тому +2

    Suddenly don't feel so bad about having two la pavoni lever machines. 8-)

  • @briancreyes_official
    @briancreyes_official 9 днів тому +14

    Ohhhh snap! My modded 51mm Delonghi EC260 and ECP3630 keep looking better and better…

    • @briancreyes_official
      @briancreyes_official 9 днів тому

      Once I added the bottomless ports filter and precision 19g basket I did think the flavor was quite good!

    • @lith8128
      @lith8128 9 днів тому

      How many grams do you dose?

    • @briancreyes_official
      @briancreyes_official 9 днів тому +1

      I use 17g currently, preheat group head, WDT. The basket says 16-19g so I just picked somewhere in the middle. They also have bigger baskets, but currently I have no regrets.

    • @ImreRides
      @ImreRides 9 днів тому

      @@briancreyes_official rocking the same and am really impressed by it.

  • @AngelMendoza-jr3bv
    @AngelMendoza-jr3bv 9 днів тому

    Interesting. I’ve been dosing 22g in a 58mm for about 3 years now. I just let taste be the deciding factor but cool to see that I wasn’t on an island alone in thinking this way

  • @KerbsHI
    @KerbsHI 9 днів тому

    This intrigues me… always found I was dosing 21g on my Breville Barista and it tasted good back in the day . I figured it was the less than professional grinder mounted on top which stunted how fine I could go. Years down the road now using a 58mm E60 and a nice grinder, I feel like the flavor profile and dial in has been more challenging. Perhaps the rhetoric of 18g has been the real stumbling block to my taste buds all along…

  • @ruls96
    @ruls96 9 днів тому +7

    Thanks, Lance, for using a soft color for the screenshots instead of blinding white. Much appreciated!

    • @LanceHedrick
      @LanceHedrick  9 днів тому +5

      All hugo!

    • @rasmusantonsen1882
      @rasmusantonsen1882 9 днів тому

      @@LanceHedrick amazing video as always. Really also enjoyed the visuals/plots as well as the color scheme itself. Great job!

  • @egodreas
    @egodreas 7 днів тому +4

    I think a lot of coffee hobbyists fixate on equipment and exact numbers due to an insecurity about taste. They can't tell a good shot from a bad one, so they focus on dialing in their 16 grams in, with a 2:1 ratio, at 30 seconds, with a standard 58mm portafilter and 9 bars of pressure. If they've spent thousands of dollars getting there, and hit all the numbers, then they must have made good coffee. Right?

  • @keithbenedict8786
    @keithbenedict8786 9 днів тому

    Great analysis! I love the data driven approach to form your conclusions. I was curious which small tamper you were using?

  • @rc0va
    @rc0va 9 днів тому

    Hi Lance, thank you for digging deep into this subject, it is a sometthing we as a community didn't know we need it. I was fortunate to start my journey with a Nomad and a Picopresso, so two manuals 49 and 51 mm's. I want to ask you a couple questions about sprovers, when will the unfiltered follow up be live aprx? I don't want to miss it.

  • @odinallfather8241
    @odinallfather8241 9 днів тому

    Fantastic data. Greatly enjoyed.

  • @nikkireynolds9514
    @nikkireynolds9514 6 днів тому

    Right, I’m so new at this espresso, and you are way too technical for me to follow at this point in my journey. Still, I really like the way you talk about making coffee that I like to drink instead of trying to achieve something that somehow exactly matches some technical result.

  • @RedmercyGG
    @RedmercyGG 9 днів тому +2

    The biggest advantage for 58mm is that you can get step down baskets for any sizes but there ain't no step up basket for my 39mm neo flex...

  • @Holly_Shmolly
    @Holly_Shmolly 9 днів тому

    Time to grow out the Mohawk, Brother Lance :)) Awesome content as always. Thank you!

  • @worldbrand_
    @worldbrand_ 9 днів тому +2

    I think it would be really interesting to see over time what the sweet spot is for basket diameter, what size we will find to be the ideal! Maybe we'll enter a world with 30-40mm diameters and 10g doses. Crazy to think about.
    Kinda curious now if it might eventually be worth giving the 51mm Delonghi Dedica another glance. It's got a thermocoil and weird pressure, but I do wonder whether the advantages of the basket diameter might make up for some of those flaws in a medium roast or darker range.
    I also ask because it is by far the most common secondhand machine in my area, and aftermarket 51mm bottomless portafilters seem to be commonly machined for Delonghi. If there is a way to get that thing to do well, even if it requires temp surfing or modding, I can think of no one better to ask.
    Also - yes I'm biased because I have one, so this is a bit of hoping and coping.

  • @danymeeuwissen5973
    @danymeeuwissen5973 9 днів тому +1

    Picky chemist is a legend. Last time I was there, Stéphane served me a pour-over in huge red wine glasses. 👌😁

  • @bmyvettjr
    @bmyvettjr 7 днів тому

    Lance is getting younger!!!

  • @TobyHorak
    @TobyHorak 6 днів тому

    One thing that I've noticed with my 54mm is that I dont even remember the last time I had messy / spurting channeling. Even if my initial dial in is way off!

  • @rkytr.2765
    @rkytr.2765 9 днів тому

    Very interesting. I mostly pull medium to dark roasts on my 58mm machine. I am using between 16-19g grams(different baskets). Maybe using bigger baskets makes sense for lighter roasts. 🤔

  • @cheekster777
    @cheekster777 9 днів тому +2

    Controversy. Let’s go!

  • @eby6613
    @eby6613 9 днів тому

    I use 18.5 grams on my dedica with an IMS shower screen + basket. I get 45grams out and generally I get the dial right either first or second try. Also the espresso always tastes VERY balanced. All I would like is better pressure control because I know it mostly brews at 11 PSI.

    • @wpwentzell
      @wpwentzell 9 днів тому

      It needs better pressure and temp regulation, the delonghi line is notorious for not having stable temps. Unfortunately, it's the only thing holding these budget devices back.

  • @Matthew-Carlin
    @Matthew-Carlin 9 днів тому +2

    YEEEESSSSS!!!! IT’S HERE!!!!!

  • @ilushk
    @ilushk 9 днів тому

    Watching this vid drinking Acacia Hills Geisha from So Coffee. Travelled Portugal back in December.

  • @Chillnote
    @Chillnote 9 днів тому +3

    I am addicted to coffee content

  • @TheBrokenEclipse
    @TheBrokenEclipse 9 днів тому

    These deep dives and the analytical approach is what I really love from you! But Jesus H Christ man, how long did this one take to prepare!?

  • @DarkPa1adin
    @DarkPa1adin 9 днів тому

    I am using Dedica Arte, with 51mm deepest basket IMS sell. I am getting subjectively good results with ~21.5g in,

  • @Conservator.
    @Conservator. 9 днів тому

    I very much enjoy this short (for you) and compact format. 👌
    (Although I don’t mind the occasional ADHD outburst, not at all 😁)

  •  7 днів тому +1

    Is the real benefit to grind coarser? if so, wouldn't we get similar results with a low flow 58mm basket?

  • @gentz8310
    @gentz8310 9 днів тому

    That's why I like my Dedica EC885 51mm and 7g single shot.

  • @zsvrljuga1
    @zsvrljuga1 9 днів тому

    Excellent video!

  • @alexmironov7297
    @alexmironov7297 9 днів тому +2

    Wondering If you prefer the cafelat robot or flair pro 3 in terms of shot quality. The flair has a significantly narrower basket, so a much deeper puck with the same dose.

  • @a3455666
    @a3455666 8 днів тому

    This does make me wanna get a Flair Neo Flex (40 mm basket!), do an electric heating mod and make some sweet 12g shots. Eventually...
    Still cheaper than the Sworks stepdown basket. 🤗

  • @alexlazaridisf.7276
    @alexlazaridisf.7276 9 днів тому

    Hey Lance it’s nice of you to let your younger brother host your videos. He’s so cute!

  • @BensCoffeeRants
    @BensCoffeeRants 9 днів тому

    Can you tell Weber and other companies to start making some good baskets for 51mm! :) I think the Basket type makes a bigger impact than width of the basket. There's not many options for 51mm currently. There are a few options for 49mm though.

  • @javierlatorre2812
    @javierlatorre2812 9 днів тому

    I have a Lelit Anna PID (57mm) and my usual dose for my morning lattes is 17/18grs. In the afternoons I sometimes do "mini-lattes" using 14/15grs and even if extraction times and ratios are the same I always get inconsistent end results. Now I see why

  • @KappaDrudge
    @KappaDrudge 9 днів тому

    I would be interested in a version of that dosing conversion chart that goes to smaller basket sizes like the Flair pro series 46mm baskets

  • @constantinedinocopses6806
    @constantinedinocopses6806 9 днів тому

    This is really great stuff. Enjoy this so much. One question, any reason you chose NOT to use a puck screen?

  • @yagoaraicoplatero6612
    @yagoaraicoplatero6612 9 днів тому

    As a rookie starting and having all the accessories for my 58 this feels like a kick in the nuts. So now you telling me i either need to go through a 300g coffe bag in 10 shots for a 58 with a biger basket or change everything to the smaller size, I don't what is worse

  • @greekakashi
    @greekakashi 2 дні тому

    So, what setup would you recommend to someone confused and not so advanced setup? Looking to upgrade from Delonghi Dedica but not spend a fortune on an espresso machine (sub 600euros )