6 Bar vs 9 Bar: The Impact on Espresso
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- Опубліковано 7 тра 2024
- Again, this video is just demonstrating the results of my own testing in a controlled environment with lighter roasted coffees. As a TLDW, there was no statistically significant differences from 90-99% confidence intervals on the extraction and tasting was random when pulled in traditional parameters. The only difference was with the washed Ethiopia where more turbo-style shots were pulled, wherein the bar threshold was not able to be held static, introducing other variables. All of the data and taste results are below.
For the Qaroro- I voted 6 bar thrice and 9 bar twice. Rui voted 6 bar twice and 9 bar thrice.
For the Leona Tabi- Rui and I were perfectly calibrated and both voted 6 bar twice and 9 bar thrice.
For the Alaka- We both chose 9 bar for all 5.
Link to Data: rb.gy/fgjolb
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First, I've been reached out to by a university that has done this same test and have arrived at the same data. This will be published soon(ish)
Some supplemental information for those not wanting to look at the data!
There was no statistically significant difference between shot times or extraction yields between 6 and 9 bar.
For tasting, other than the odd Alaka, the results were random.
Qararo- I chose 6 bar thrice and 9 bar twice, Rui chose 6 bar twice and 9 bar thrice.
Leona Tabi- We both chose the same cups identically- three 6 bar shots and two 9 bar shots.
Alaka- We both chose 9 bar for each one, but I suspect this is separate from pressure threshold.
Please leave a like and comment if you enjoyed! Or, if new to the channel, a subscribe would be awesome!
Cheers and looking forward to chatting below!
Hey Lance on my Breville barista touch is there anyway to troubleshoot or hack into bars of pressure & manipulate them to play around with different bars?
Hi Lance!
I’m interested in this idea that a 9bar shot might be preferable if it leads to increased flow earlier in the shot. This is super interesting, as a lot of Decent users doing flow profiling are actually trying to do the opposite - have the machine decline pressure so the flow doesn’t shoot up as the puck loses integrity. This is pretty fascinating, no?
❤
@@nichj487The 9 bar shot isn’t holding 9bar at puck throughout the shot, it drop as he say as the puck integrity cannot sustain the sort of pressure with that specific coffee, so with that a drop seem to be preferable. There is a difference between input pressure at pump and pressure at puck.
@@mikni4069 Yes I understand this. But Lance commented that they preferred the shots where the machine’s pump pressure was set to 9bar, and he speculated that it was because the flow sped up earlier in the shot than it did when the pump was set to 6bar. And yes, the 6bar shot had a different grind size, which explains the difference in flow. But I’m curious to know why he thinks that earlier spike in flow might be better.
Prediction: eventually, Lance will determine the ideal espresso is pour over
.......true.
pourpresso!
Honestly, I laughed at this one. Does it mean that I'm officially a coffee nerd?
@@T0M3R07 If it makes you happy…… Yes 😊
@@T0M3R07 You are watching a 15min video on whether you should pull 6 or 9 bar espresso shot, you are a coffee nerd 😅
Lance dropping… bars.
Ok, I’ll see myself out.
🥁
The Burr Man? Nooo…the Bar Man. Thanks for raising the Bar, Lance. I know creating this content can be a lot of Pressure. When it comes to the coffee community, I nominate you as the Group Head. 😬
So many good puns here. I'm sure I'll be eviscerated in some fora but I gotta present what I spend hours gathering haha! Appreciate the support
@@LanceHedrick All jokes aside, we appreciate everything you do. The most influential provocateurs are the ones who challenge traditional beliefs. Keep grinding my dude
The pressures, the continuous grind, all to be roasted by others in search of their own leverage. Lance, please keep pumping out the content. Or was that cold brew truth?
Surely more puns will percolate up?
Lance asking the questions that have real value for both home and professional coffee consumers. Thank you. Honestly I'm very happy you make videos and I found them.
Thank you! Appreciate this comment.
@@LanceHedrick appreciate your videos!
If you'd be interested I think it would be cool to explore direct pump machines vs those with preinfusion (if you've not done something already that I've missed). I think there could be some interesting data on extraction and cup quality which might be helpful for people trying to figure out if the extra cost for the feature would be worth the investment for their daily routine.
It's one of the few topics people talk about alot but there isn't much coverage with real data, it's just assumed preinfusion is much better (from what I've been able to find).
“Vomitable” great word of the day.
It's in my daily vernacular
@@LanceHedrick This just in: Lance finds coffee vomitable.
Almost as good as ‘cuspice’ 😄
Lance as an engineer and research scientist it’s fantastic to see your use of the scientific process to brewing better espresso. You have tremendous resources relative to most home baristas, so I really look to your testing to shed some light on what all these factors do! What’s crazy is that many people, including people around me in my community, get tripped up by their own biases and critical thinking to discern what can be objectively relevant data. Thank you for acknowledging what is tested data and understanding the limitations of what has been proven vs what is speculation
I super appreciate this comment! Thank you so much!
Data-driven coffee content is what every coffee channel should do. Thank you Lance
Keep chasing the dopamine, Lance. Keep pushing against assumptions and pressing into the data. You're a big encouragement to us all!
This was exactly the testing I was hoping to find a few months ago. Thank you for all your hard work, Lance!
FTR, when I started trying to figure espresso out, I found Lance and James early on. I've found many others now. Some very helpful. But still, it's Lance and James the produce content that continues to excite me.
Thank you !! I have learned a lot from all your videos. I also believe that flow rate of the puck is the most importance.
Vindication! Last few weeks I've basically stopped worrying about pressure as a variable. As long as I'm hitting my ratios and times the pressure naturally trends to around 7-9bar anyway, and the results have been great. This hobby is fun.
I am just here to say i love these kinds of videos, keep it up!
Remarkable work, Lance.
Lance consistently dropping knowledge and relieving head aches haha. I can stop worrying about pressure now and remove one more variable to stress over.
For once, a video saying that it's OK no need to change anything, what a relief!
Really raising the bar with these videos
FANTASTIC! Been SUPER wondering the answer to this question!
I've been waiting for this one ❤
never thought i would out a coffee youtuber on Hoffman's level, but in recent times i have found myself going to your channel over his.. many thanks for all the info and gems... and ofc music.
Good info thanks Lance!
Well, since my Apex has a 15 bar pump and no OPV, most of my shots start about 11-12 bar and go down from there. But I've definitely had the grind a bit too coarse a few times and started closer to 8 and averaged about 6. Tasty coffee basically every time.
I appreciate all the work you do here. Also that white decent with the hummingbird looks absolutely phenomenal. Can't wait for my hummingbird to come in.
Awesome shirt man, also: is there a review on the Kafatek coming?
Loving the videos!
TBH, this is something I've been very curious about. Thanks for the data as always!
Again, breaking the internet! Another great video, Lance!
That's why I love direct levers - I don't really know what pressure I'm pulling, the effort I have to make depends entirely on grind size, puck preparation and resistance during the shot and not the other way around. Great video!
love your approach to coffee, this feels like a breath of fresh air compared to most ppl in this hobby.
Just had an happy accident today while trying a new coffee. Got it too course the first time, pulled 40 out of a 15g shot in 14 seconds or so, looked awful with the open basket. But bc broke college student I won't waste coffee, tried it and it was actually quiet nice.
Waiting for this finally!!!!!
Great vid! Thanks!!
Thanks Lance
Great video as always! I'm starting to believe that flow rate is one of the most important independent variables. It's also much easier to visualize dialling variables (grind size, puck volume, etc) in relation to their impact on flow rate.
Almost anyone with a machine with a vibratory pump can get control over their flow rate. A simple lamp dimmer (the kind you find inside a torchiere lamp; these dimmers can be purchased for $12 or less online) can be added to your machine on the ‘hot’ side of the pump wiring. Allows preinfusion; makes a world of difference in controlling your extraction.
Great video Lance, I want to add that I'm pretty sure keeping the duration of most of the videos under 20 minutes will eventually help to get more views. Finding interesting 12-16 min. videos in the feed is synonym of CLICK 😜
Soooo Awsome! You two just made history. I don't know much about light coffee, people always say they're more difficult to extract but overextraction ruins taste. Is it possible a 2:1 ratio on lighter roasts is too much? You didn't have to drop in a set of nconsistent coffee beans, but you did and that's even more awesome. Your sacrifice for science is Well appreciated ❤
Watch Lance's previous video about dialing in espresso.
@@PlanckRelic umm, ok
@@elementonyoutube6556 Not being snarky, if you understand what he's teaching in that video, I think you'll answer your own question or at least have a more nuanced formulation. 2:1 is not too long for a light roast, but Lance will teach you better than my typing.
@@PlanckRelic Its a good video, and I don't mind a refresher. But his comment about the lighter 6bar roast being bitter makes me think it could have been avoided meaning this experiment on this video has just been ruined because the extraction on the 6bar was not optimized in accordance to his last video. Its possible. He mentiones this at about 14:20ish minutes and delves into further as he reaches 18+min.
@@elementonyoutube6556 check his pinned post, it was only 1 of the light roasts that showed any consistent difference. This experiment also does not argue that you couldn't adjust other things to avoid the defects of one particular situation, he's intentionally only changing one variable. He also argues this experiment does not arrive at a universal conclusion, which seems to be the thing you are trying to make from it.
I'm really loving this recent run of experiments. If I undertand correctly, the biggest difference observed here (with the Alaka) was perhaps due to a greater change in flow rate during the shot, correlated with a change in pump pressure. Intuitively, it feels like changes in flow rate during the shot would affect the representation, e.g., of early vs. late extraction products in the cup, which would presumably affect the balance of the shot. As a "first order" extension on this, it's not clear to me how a flat flow profile (let's call this a "neutral" representation of extraction products) would compare with, say, a flow rate that increases or decreases as the shot progresses (presumably favouring either early or late extractin products). Do you have a sense of how simple changes in flow rate like this would affect the shot?
Awesome day ahead with a new video
Why to choose between 6 and 9 bars? Just use both - go up to 9 very briefly, then go to 6, gives best results for me 😅
As you mentioned Lance, I believe it's more flow rate that determines the best cup in terms of flavour. While anecdotal, I have been pulling 15, 13, 11, and 9 bar espressos on my pressure modded breville infuser for the last year and have noticed that the taste is best when the flow is a finer stream. Since the flow increases as the puck deteriorates, adjusting the pressure to maintain a finer stream appears to produce a better tasting cup.
I do 21.5g in to ~50g out, preinfusion at 3-4 bars for 6 seconds (including ramp up time) and anywhere from a 34-54 second pull depending on the colour and flow rate. If the liquid is quite light or clear, I end the pull by dialing down the pressure to 3 bars over 2 seconds.
This is pretty much my approach with a lever machine. Whenever the grind isn't quite right, it always seems ideal to adjust pressure to achieve the proper flow rate.
Very inspiring... Its teach me alot
Great discussion about pressure vs flow rate! Soooo interesting. Thanks Mr Lance! I guess for systems that build pressure via compressed Co2/No2, or just air, things might be quite different? Anyone any experience?
With the Nurri lever espresso machine, I get much better and higher extraction with very light coffee when I do a blooming shot with a pre-infusion of 6 bar then with 3 bar.
The pre-infusion takes also longer time with 6 bar, 40 seconds and 25 s for the 3 bar pre-infusion.
When the cup gets 1,5 gram of coffee (the pressure is down to 3 bar), I let go the lever for a 10 bar shot. Total shot time 60 - 80 seconds
My theory is that this is due to the rapid increase in pressure that the machine can provide with a large amount of water.
I might have missed this, but what temperature were you doing for these shots? Seems like they were a constant variable throughout the experiment.
Thank you for your contribution to the community. As someone who is new, these videos have been utterly informative to my experience.
The little bit about natural coffees was very helpful. Do you have any video that compiles that kind of knowledge about how beans work ? I’m roasting at home and kinda lost my mind over that dynamic lol
Thanks again for the video. I think it will be very interesting in 30 years when we look back at this time in coffee history. How much more will we learn. I feel like everything we “learn something new”, we learn there is so much more we do t understand.
Coffee is hard.
Oh for sure. I'm confident a lot of these tests will be complemented in the future with much better understanding and rationale. But, we can't get there without questioning first! And putting a spotlight on the issue first. So, we push thru!
@@LanceHedrick “push thru…vomitable dark roasts”…. Hehe
Lance, do you have any recommendations about grinders (or burrs) for lever machines? Which set is better for Argos? Thanks
Do any espresso machines hold a steady 6/9 bar through the whole extraction time?
On my BDB with 19g Pullman 876 basket it holds 9 for a bit then degrades to 3-6 bar for the remainder.
Is this standard?
Is there any difference in setting the pressure via OPV vs affecting it with just grind size? Like if you set the OPV to 9 bar but ground coarse enough to at least start at 6 bar? Thanks.
In the voiceover, you indicated that most of the tests were run using La Marzocco, but in the video, there was plenty of Decent DE1 B-roll. Did you do some testing with the Decent? If so, it seems like the speculation about puck erosion rates could have been proved out one way or the other with the graphs from the Decent pulls, the data would be right there.
Nice test 👌
Question: since the last coffee the shots were so fast were you hitting 9 bar? On my machine shots around 20/22s do not go past to 7bar
Thanks for sharing another awesome experiment. Did I understand you to say flow could have more impact than pressure?
This makes me feel like I’m not missing out on anything by not adjusting my OPV to 6 bar, and that’s great because I really didn’t want to mess around with that!
Another great video from Lance, thanks!
As a Flair user, I wonder how this impacts the direct lever machines. It is easy to realize with the Flair that trying to keep up the pressure (by applying more and more force on the lever) throughout the extraction is a bad idea, and will result in very harsh tasting espresso and mess all around. So a declining pressure profile is definitely the way to go. But do you want to keep the force on the lever constant? Or the flow rate, after the coffee actually starts flowing? Or none of these and ease up even more (or less) towards the end? These are exciting and meaningful questions.
I’m also a Flair user (18 months). I focus on length of time per shot (I aim for 30s). I ramp up to 9 bars, sometimes more or less depending on grind size, then lower the pressure to achieve a 30s pull.
Obviously I use grind size and dose amount to “dial in” that 30s pull, but I’m not always dialled in, so the Flair manual lever makes it easy to adjust.
Frankly, my dose size is 10g, with 25g output using a ridge less 15g VST basket.
We only buy green seeds, so we roast and I’ve been collecting data on which seeds we like the most. Then I blend and experiment to determine what blend we like!
A little OT: How do you change the pressure in Linea Mini R; just on the flow when pulling a shot or do you use a blind basket always?
-A happy owner of Linea Mini R
Great analysis. I would be interested to validate your results by comparing 6 va 9 bars for each coffee by comparing effects on different grind settings, rather than holding that as a constant. Because then the flow rate should be varying and it would be interesting to see how that compares from coffee to coffee with 6 vs 9 bars.
Strietmann in the back. Yeaaaaaa. Gimme that review please !
Gonna set up a 9-bar ExDos profile on the Decent for tasting tomorrow morning. I pretty much only drink naturals, so we'll see how it goes.
Also just correcting my subscription status to the channel. Thought I was, because I see everything you put out, but take my plus 1.
I also used to live in Bordeaux, nice to see they've got a decent coffee scene sprung up.
With exdos, which is a fast shot, there is likely a difference. The results here mostly are in relation to more static style shots.
Fully agree. I created a "preinfuse - bloom - 6-to-4.5bar decline" shot profile for my girlfriend. Just accidentally used that profile on an Ethiopia bean ground for 9 bars. Best shot I've ever had for that coffee.
Interesting experiment. I love the results. I think is hilarious that we're looking for empirical evidence in something so subjective as taste. We want to validate being "correct" in our preference, so human.
Taste itself is not that subjective, especially when trained. Enjoyment thereof is.
For me it's all about getting in an appropriate pre-soak with perfect pressure profile for that precision flow rate. Just observing how changes to those profiles impact the extraction indicate how important flow rate really is.
Now I wonder if you used a scace to have 9 bar at the puck and 6 bar at the puck , whether that would send it over the edge and make a difference . I’m assuming it’s around 8 -8.5 bar at the puck with 9 bar showing on pressurestat . My double boiler rotary shows 10 bars on stat for 130psi on the scace.
With the 0.6 mm giclure I guess the water debit is more reasonable than the 0.8.
I lowered the pressure to get 250gr/per second as the machine arrived stock with nearly 490gr/sec.
Shots improved dramatically in taste.
Thank you. I am wondering what would be the results on a Flair between 6 and 9 bars.
I settled on 8 BAR adjusted OPV in my Gaggia Classic. Good middle ground and works very well indeed. Much better than OEM stock (~12.5 BAR)
Why are we showing the decent doing the shots, I thought it was linea mini r? Do you think that the relatively high dose could be a factor, ie maybe an 18g 6 bar might be better than 20g 9 bar? Thanks for the video, very interesting as I drop my pressure on light roasts to 6 because that’s what we are supposed to do.
I used the decent in the video because I considered showing graphs but ultimately decided not to for the sake of simplicity since I was already showing other data. The experiment was done on the linea.
Very instructive, but it’s kind of your signature. Flow to puck degradation having more of an impact on final result than pressure does make a lot of sense. Out of personal experience this may be the reason why my manual shots (Robot and Flair 58) may be a step above my e61 ones, even though I rarely pay too much attention to gauge and tend to rely on puck feedback.
Also, thanks for getting me to discover a French roaster that was not on my radar. Will try them for my next order.
Thanks, Lance... So, if the taste and extraction are indiscernible between six and nine bar, would we consider using a lower pressure to lessen the strain on the machine components, thereby prolonging the life of the machine? 🤔
You skimmed by it but the quakers in natural coffees is interesting. It would explain why from shot to shot it can be inconsistent at times for my coffee, often naturals.
Not minding budget. Would you recommended the Bianca V3 or the new la marzocco Mini? Thanks!
Is there any logic in holding the cup directly under grouphead to capture the espresso stream at a closer distance? Apparently the diving gravity affects consistency?
I would love to hear your thoughts on 11 vs 9 bar, and the potential impact on channeling, as so many machines come set well above 10 bar.
Anecdotally, when I dropped my machine from 10.5 to 8, my consistency improved. I fully acknowledge that this could be confirmation bias.
One thing that a slightly lower setting will accomplish for those semi-pro/not quite commercial grade machines is a much longer service life. So if you have a method at a lower bar that works great, by all means don't put extra stress on the machine if you don't get better results by doing so. :)
oh why thank you so much. American James Hoffman 😂 I needed this test.
I wonder if we should be discussing water velocity as well. You touched on this slightly when talking about the differing flow rates between grinds and setups. Velocity is the 3rd factor when considering standard flow hydraulics, if you have 2 pipes, 1 is 20mm diameter and 1 is 40mm, both have 50 litres per minute @ 5 bar flowing through them, whats different? the velocity. the water must move faster in the 20mm diameter pipe. If a course and finer ground coffee both had 2 ml per second @ 9 bar flowing through them, surely logic indicates the finer grind would have to have higher water velocity occurring?
Higher velocity is more turbulent and exerts more friction, perhaps it could also be disturbing a puck more, carrying more fines with it and altering texture accordingly.. All just speculation from an amateur coffee enjoyer and ex irrigation system designer haha.
What do you think?
changing baskets (types of flow) instead of changing grind size to get desired flow rates can also be interresting no ?
This is why I love my Micra with very little customizability. Just solid shots, one after the other.
I think it's crucial to bring milk into this study. Over the years my favorite espresso shots that were pulled were all tasting incredibly sour in even just the slightest amount of milk. If I ground finer and pulled longer, the beautiful delicate notes I loved about that espresso were nearly gone completely in the black espresso. The only way I could pull an espresso shot with intense delicate notes that both never folded under milk and tasted incredible as a black espresso was lowering the bar pressure from my typical 7.5-8 bars I've been using for years across hundreds of coffees and pulling longer shot times (faster shot times like I had been using make light espresso in milk not taste sour, but they lack flavor character especially in milk with vst baskets and specifically my workflow, this could be unique). The lower I go, the more intense and delicate flavors remain. I go about as low of a bar pressure as possible before the espresso tastes sour in milk, then I'll go up about .5-1 bar higher just to be safe. This is how I dial in.
Granted, I'm using vst baskets and pulling shots for over 1 minute often with about 12 seconds of pre infusion on my mavam. I'm also using hopper fed beans or full dose feeding with wanted retention in my grinder above the clump crusher. If I slow fed In my bentwood I would not be able to grind fine enough for my beans to run through the burrs.
This is highly specific, but this has worked wonders for me. I also know a lot of other shops using the mythos and hopper fed (commercial) grinders where they've found that lowering the bar pressure pulls incredible shots for both black and white drinks. Many of which had been shocked by the change.
I should say that with these modern baskets, I can pull shots that blend well with milk and show origin character even at just 12 seconds pre infusion and literally as fast as about 8 seconds of 4-5 bar pressure with my ssp brew burrs 😂 I think the modern baskets are much more of a different story with white espresso. Though I do prefer traditional baskets with longer shot times for both black and white drinks if I'm being critical on flavor, but it's MUCH easier to avoid using these techniques and just pull fast shots with modern baskets at one grind size for nearly all coffees. I'll take that small flavor sacrifice any day for a high volume bar.
Just thought I'd share my experience with milk based espresso in regards to your video. Thank you for taking the time to do this test! I'm glad more people will know that bar pressure for black espresso doesn't matter as much. Maybe we can see this topic of white espresso discussed soon? 🤩
I’m confused about the shot times. As I understand it, the grind setting was the same for both 6 and 9 bar shots.
According to the theoretical model from the paper “Systematically Improving Espresso: Insights from Mathematical Modeling and Experiment,” I think we should expect the flow through the puck to be faster at higher pressure, when grind is held constant. A more minor point, I think we should also expect EY to be higher for longer shot times, if yield is constant.
Yes the model is simply wrong. I spoke with hendon about it.
@@LanceHedrickah! I did find one error in the model formulas, but that issue wouldn’t change these predictions. I still have hope for the overall approach because it has the potential to give a unified theoretical understanding across brewing methods. In theory, we’re exposing the solubles in ground beans to hot water as a solvent for a period of time, so there’s a continuous space of brew methods and no sharp boundary between them. In practice, though, the different details matter a lot!
Did you find fixable errors in the formulas, assumptions, method or was it the predictions don’t match live shots? I’m just wondering how fixable their model is.
i feel like these findings suggest that my cafelat robot is really one of the best machines that allows you to adjust the pressure based on resistance and flow rate 'on the fly' which leads to less wasted shots... as you can still get decent shots even if your grind size is off by simply adjusting the amount of foce applied to the lever arms
Interesting, thanks for sharing! What about testing 1 bar and 3 bar shots??
In recent videos you often say that traditional pump machines try to remain at a certain pressure but is that true?
From other videos (I believe also yours) I got the impression that they just have a certain water debit and in relation to the puck resistance they top out at a certain pressure (which might or might not be reached for very different fractions of the extraction time). Trying to maintain 9 bars would however imply pumping harder as it drops and increasing the water debit which I think traditional machines without any electronic profiling don't do, right?
Yes it is true. They pump water at the max pressure. But they can't push any harder than the max water debit. This is why understanding inherent puck integrity is important.
@@LanceHedrick but that makes pressure more of a derived quantity. So they don't pump at any pressure, they just pump and thereby reach whatever pressure the puck and the opv allow them to reach. Sorry if I'm being some sort of haggler or if that's completely clear for everyone but me anyway...
@gotjazz84 it's not just opv. The pump will pump at a certain pressure. The gicluer limits the flow. In this machine, it is at 0.6mm. This causes lessened flow. There is pressure experienced in the system prior to hitting the puck.
@@LanceHedrick ah interesting. Thanks for the explanation.
1) Am I understanding correctly that you think the 9 bar tasted better because of the increased flow around the end when the puck gave out? I tested this at home with a washed light roast from Peru (from Elm in Seattle, which was pretty good) and had the same experience: the 6 bar was "grittier" and harsher than the 9 bar, but I wonder if this is because 9 bar is extracting less overall (thinking of that volcano graph in the turbo shot paper) and therefore just has less flavor (not necessarily bad)
2) I have seen that Flat Max in the background a few times now and now you're using it for your experiments. Is a review forthcoming?
Big thanks for your work, as usual
9 bar was ONLY better on the washed Ethiopia. Completely random with other two.
badabum badabang! thanks lance & keep it up ✌️
I wonder what this might mean for us manual pullers. How might purposefully changing flow rate during a shot affect quality?
Nice video Lance ! So if I understand correctly, 9 bar seems superior because of the "artificial pressure decline " vs more constant flow in the 6 bar shots. So if you have flow control machine, the pressure seems to be useless ( between 9 and 6) . the flow profile is more important like doing a tappering profile ? I understand correctly ? 🤔
For the most part, yeah! I don't know if I'd say 9 is superior across the board. Maybe with some coffees when you can manipulate the drop to improve taste. Pseudo flow profiling
@@LanceHedrick Ok ;) thank you very much for your answer and for all the testing, these experiments videos are really amazing :D
@@LanceHedrick Sorry I don't want to bother you but after rewatching two times, I wonder if in fact, for the Alaka, the 9 bar shot has not an " artificial tappering profile" but it's almost the contrary, it' like you have flow increase at the end of the shot , so it makes me wonder if a tappering profile is more detrimental than beneficial if you have flow control... ? Just a speculation lol but it's an idea for futher testings^^.
@jorisfassina3789 again, not a fun answer, but I think it is largely coffee dependent.
@@LanceHedrick Ok lol , yeah I assume it's why coffee is so fun haha 😉, lot of variability 😁
Is there a coffee subscription you personally recommend?
Finally the MAX SSW is on the show!!
Do you think it’s easier to dial in for 6 Barr in comparison to 9 Barr?
I have a 1zpresso hand grinder for my home espresso setup and idk if I’m ready to grind my light roasts finer in the morning 😅
Same grind size.
Under pressure 🎶
Hey Lance! Is there a video planned on the new technique of Coffee Waving introduced by the German Barista Champion Felix Hohlmann? It seems to have a pretty big impact on the tasting notes. :)
I've been following it
What about pulling the shots at a lower temperature also 125.6F/ 52C Doesn’t that make for a sour shot?
Now let's say that my puck prep is not very good, or my grinder is not great - then could I hope to avoid some channeling with 6 bar?
Also, you mentioned naturals being less consistent shot-to-shot than washed coffee - was that comment about Ethiopian naturals, or in general?
I don't think 6 Bar will salvage anything. It's still crazy high pressure.
And naturals in general, tho Ethiopia is quite bad.
Was there a reason why you used the Linea Mini instead of the decent? Using the decent seems a lot more precise to me and you could monitor flow, pressure, temperature etc.
Linea is more precise from my testing. Just can't monitor. But temp and consistent output it is better. And much faster, which is imperative in these testings when tasting.
Random Q: where do you get all these cool cups? I recognize the Fellow one, but the others...
Man, some breakneck speed on your releases lately
He must already have all his videos planned for the year.
haha I wish! all completely random. just what i'm vibing with.
@@LanceHedrick, well you’re posting so many videos so fast that you sure look like you have all your videos planned for the year. Either that, or you just have the process from conception to publishing down to a science so you’re able to do it faster.
A possible way to test ‘fines migration’ would be to use small metal or wood shavings (or any identifiable small substance) and note their starting point in the basket and where they end up at the end. It’s not perfect but it would give an idea of what’s happening
I'm a little confused at first in this, regarding the previous findings from Cameron et al.
I guess in your case, you kept the grind the same, just limiting the pressure from the pump, whereas for the Turbo, the point is to go coarser and faster, which leads to higher extraction?
So in other words, they tried something else and showed you didn't need 9 bars for it, while here you just tested pressure (relatively) in isolation?
They took no data in comparisons. I show their graph they present but it is strictly modeling.. not data backing it up. I spoke with Hendon prior to publishing.
@@LanceHedrick Interesting. I thought they had the model and then, through testing, discovered the "volcano". I'm even more confused now, I guess I have to go read their paper in more details.
Purely anecdote and not data of course but having owned a Decent for 18 months after playing around, I settled on dynamic flow-controlled profiles which always seem to give me the most consistent, pleasant results. It's almost impossible to make a sink shot with them.
Lance! Where do you get your multi colored button ups?
I'm not even sure. Instagram hit me with the ad and I was a sucker for it
Hi Lance, wouldn't it make sense to get a multi group machine for your tests? I'm sure you thought of it already, but just asking in case you didn't 😄
Issue is multi group machines aren't perfect. I've never found one where the flow rate from each group was identical.
I see! That makes sense.
Does anybody know what type of machine that gorgeous Faema lever in the background is?
1952 Faema Marte
Thank you, Cheer's!
I use gentle and sweet profile on my decent which is pre infusion than 6 par and decline to 3 give me a very good shot
Nice! Very different from the static conversation here. But I love declining shots