Forgetting about him would be like the fnaf community just forgetting about purple guy 3 or 4 games in, tho both of those games were the "final" game in the series but you get what I mean
well, it's kind of sad that toby would release chapter 3,4,5 at the same time because we won't have enough time to predict what would happen at the next chapter
@@37_The_Star_Of_Hermes Trust me when I say that we as a community probably don't want that. Predictions can be fun, but games also need to fairly foreshadow stuff. Given a large part of this game right now is the mysteries the more time and information we get the more we can pull a Persona 5. The short version is in P5 there is a Traitor, the equivlent to the Knight in Deltarune. In P5 the traitor witnesses you in Ch3 and interacts with you in Ch4 giving away their identity if you pay slight attention but in Ch5 it acts as a reveal. This ends up very anti-climatic and makes the big deal of finding the Traitor feel trivial. Imagine waiting for a month or even a year. The community would analyze Chapters 3 and 4 to solve chapter 5. It is why Toby eventually has to do batch releases. Otherwise we will solve it and the impact starts to go way down. Consider how much this game shares with Undertale, as much like how P4's structure could be used to solve P5, this means Deltarune is in a situation where it is very likely trying to predict 6+ could negatively impact the community's experience.
Toby also has a tendency to use 1-letter, vague filenames for spoiler songs. For example, most of the songs that play when you fight Asriel in Undertale are labeled "x", and Chara's theme is just called "c".
Indeed, I think the song names could be abbreviations, like: w - wrench (in the gears) / wake up d - double trouble / don't do this The first two non-belonging letters being w and d may be a red herring. Toby already kinda made a point about datamining his games.
Sort of but not exactly. Here are all the songs in Undertale specifically that could fit this bill: mus_a2 (plays when you fight Asriel Dreemur, at the second stage where he transforms. Slowly fades out as 'you try to reach your save file.... but nothing happens.') mus_f_(6s_[number], alarm, destroyed_[number], finale_[number], intro, newlaugh, part_[number]) (these are all for Omega Flowey and likely named this way to make it obvious) mus_x_undyne and mus_x_undyne_pre ("But the Earth Refused to Die" and Battle Against a True Hero, this one still has a full name ('undyne') but the 'x' here is meant to indicate that these 2 songs are for the Genoroute, when she turns into The True Hero) mus_xpart_(2, a, b, back) (aka "Hopes and Dreams." Plays when you fight Asriel Dreemur. Perhaps the "x" is actually for "heroic" themes...) mus_z_ending (plays during the sans phonecall in a neutral ending) mus_zz_megalovania (you know this one this is... but notably though it is marked with a 'z', the full name is still there 'megalovania') mus_zzz_c ("It's me... Chara", note that it's not called 'c' but 'zzz_c'. The 'z' here might be meant to indicate the players is approaching a 'bad ending' or 'bad time') mus_zzz_c2 (plays if you refuse to cooperate with Chara and they uh... creepy-pasta at the screen before swinging your knife and destroying the world) ~~ The reason I did not bring this up in the video proper is because none of these songs are one single letter ('mus_a2' is the closest we get and does not seem to be indicative of a pattern) and because Deltarune and Undertale do not seem to share naming schemes for their songs. All of the songs in Deltarune's gamefiles lack the "mus" precursor and none of the "Weird Route" exclusive music has any special markers (for example "berdly_battle_heartbeat_true" and flashback_excerpt are not marked with any special letters or phrases, and thus blend in with other similarly named, normal-route songs, like 'berdly_flashback') "w" and "d" on the other hand, are unique amongst both soundtracks. Even "snd_b" starts with 'snd'. So why are these two so special?
Good observation though! This was actually my very first thought when I started writing the script! Perhaps I should add it to a pinned FAQ near the top, since I under seem to have underestimated the number of game-file browsing nerds like us, haha.
@@HalfBreadChaosIn Gamemaker Studio, asset names usually start with a short indicator of what asset it is (to distinguish assets and make it easier to reference in the code). For example, s or snd = sound asset, o or obj = object asset, ect. The thing that makes w and d more significant than snd_a2 is the lack of that indicator. Personally, as someone who uses Gamemaker, when an asset doesn’t use an indicator (like “game” instead of “obj_game”) it’s usually something important. Also, I caught onto the “w + d = Gaster” and “wdgaster = eight chapters” the moment I saw “d”, this seems very intentional (also, d.ogg = dog is just funny, whether intentional or not)
Extremely suspicious that you can also skip to the dark worlds in each chapter by immediately going back to bed, whereupon you 'wake up' in the Dark World.
Another connection to the wake dream stuff beyond the "dark worlds being dreams" thing is in the weird route susie and queen have this exchange. Susie: "Noelle needs to wake up!" Queen: Wake? No She Has Already Awakened Too Much Let Her Close Her Eyes And Sleep Away Into a Darker, Darker, Dream Beyond the darker darker obviously, queen also seems to be happy about this as she's smiling?? And right before this she also says noelle needs to rest... Interesting...
This text doubles down on the idea of "Waking" being the opposite of Noelle coming to her senses for a second before the Berdly fight. "Wake" as an act in that fight has her fall MORE under our control, gaining more strength in the process (the magic stat increases). Queen also suggests that, compared to a normal run, Snowgrave Noelle is more "awoken" and it's for her own good that she "sleep" again. Very strange that the word used for falling into a trance is to "wake"...
I think it's just that queens smile is her default face, and she doesn't have a "serious" face. Of course, that's just a memory from my playthrough of weird route, which I did like two years ago.
Susie thinks that noelle should wake up from her “dream” while queen thinks she’s already too awoken that it isn’t, that she thinks she should go back into a trance, a dream.
@@Sandstheskeleton Well, Susie is a lightner and Queen is a darkner. maybe they have different perception on what waking and sleep is? Besides, I think queen was catching onto what happened more than Susie did. Susie probably just meant that maybe she could get out of this dream and be safe, y'know? The Queen meant that she should be resting because she seemed very... hyper vigilant, anxious, scared, and ready to attack someone... which different than how she was earlier.. When Queen met up with noelle again in the snowgrave route, she probably was talking to herself and asking "the voice" if she should freeze "her" but "the voice" would not answer, because she was not with Kris anymore.... or maybe she was... mumbling about the people she already froze and calling herself a terrible person... or trying to convince herself that none of this was real... Queen was just suggesting what any mother would probably suggest in such a situation. She might've attempted to comfort her before she slept, telling her everything was gonna be alright and that she didn't have to do anything anymore.
A thought I had when you suggested the Snowgrave Route could be the "Gaster" route: Toby Fox has insisted that Deltarune only has one ending, but what if the second route never reaches that ending? In Undertale, Sans' final attack is trapping you in the battle, and specifically his turn, forever. It didn't work, but think about what would have happened if it did: the Underground would be permanently locked in a state where Frisk and Chara are unable to act, with a trail of destruction left behind them, but all of the monsters that lived in/evacuated to New Home would be safe. Life would go on for the monsters left alive, but from our perspective as the player, the game would never actually have an ending: you fight the final boss, but you never beat them, and you never get a chance to try again. I think that the Snowgrave Route could have a similar ending, where Kris/the player gets trapped in a process that never ends, like a battle or a cutscene. There would be no "End of Chapter 7/8/9/n" screen; the only way to leave would be to close the game, and there would be no other choices for you to make upon reopening the game. The result of your poor choices throughout the game is a stalemate. There's a popular theory that Deltarune is a cyclical world, trapped in a time loop, where the world ends and then starts over forever. If that's the case, and there's only one ending, then there might be three routes in the game. The first, and the only one that would be called a proper ending, is the route where you escape the loop and take control of your own destiny. The system bending time into a donut is destroyed, and there's pie for all. The second would be remaining in the loop, repeating the events of the game forever. You would reach the end of your adventure, only to do it again, and again, and again, for all time. Finally, the third would be the stalemate I described: the world never loops, but progress is never made. You successfully stop time from repeating, but that's because you failed to conclude your journey. You got stuck along the way because of your terrible actions, and the world is paying the price for it by stalling forever. Anyways, that's my crackpot theory/prediction, thanks for reading!
*the Player, Frisk, and Chara. Or rather, just the Player/Frisk and Chara, since Frisk seemed to be more of an empty vessel than Kris is. People keep forgetting that the Player started the genocide route. Chara just made sure we finish it.
This is fascinating!!! I love how you wrote "the system bending time into a donut is destroyed, and there's pie for all" too. Such beautiful writing :')
To support this idea, one of Noelle's blog entries is about getting permanently softlocked in a game because she missed a character she was supposed to have -- the same entry also describes coming across a mysterious undocumented door that shouldn't exist. The connections to Berdly and Gaster are pretty obvious. And more generally, Ralsei also describes the Roaring as an endless night that Lightners would be doomed to roam eternally, so...
Hell, anything is an ending if that's where you stop playing. That's some wisdom from the narrator of The Stanley Parable. But, I would make the argument that Undertale is also in a time loop, because it's a video game. You give them everything they could have ever dreamed of, and then you take it away and wipe their memory just because you wanted to play again. That's sort of the lesson in Undertale, that's what the game is _really_ about. We all know that Undertale is really about far more than just the story that's being presented to you, after all. And so, I have no reason to believe that a time loop in Deltarune wouldn't be caused for the same reasons. I have no reason to believe that that wouldn't be the case for _every_ game. It's a beautiful thing. Undertale is really a commentary about the dissonance between the viewer and the media. It changes the way you think entirely. Topics discussed in Undertale can be found in _everything_ else. Like the fact that, because death is a minor setback, it is impossible to lose. You've only lost when you've allowed it to beat you. That was Sans's goal, to make the game outrageously unfair to drive you away in the hopes that you'd never play the game again. Undertale is one of the few games I've ever seen that literally BEGS you to never play it again. And the fact that the protagonist of _every_ game is really just my meat puppet. I ostensibly play a game to fight the bad guy, undo all their harm, and make sure they're never seen again, because I'm the good guy. But really, I play a game because I _want_ the bad guy to do his thing so I can enjoy beating him. We open windows to other universes just so we can abuse them for our own amusement. _I AM THE ONE WHO PULLS THE STRINGS AND MAKES THEM RING._ My point is that, time isn't a donut until _you've_ twisted it into one. Time will never move on for as long as you continue to play the game. It's all so simple, so obvious, and yet I would have never thought of any of it on my own.
D playing when Noelle "wakes up" might be Gaster getting upset in some way. Since W plays when he is interrupted by the other speaker, these songs may signify when we don't do what he wants.
If you name yourself after Kris, Susie or Noelle - Gaster responds and says "Youre about to meet someone very very wonderful" There is a 'goner' that talks to you about Susie (in undertale). Afterwards, you can find a 'crude drawing of 3 smiling figures, with the words "Dont Forget" written on it' in sans's workshop behind his house. and in the core, there are neon tubes on the walls all throughout. They are colored light blue, yellow and purple. These are the colors associated with Kris, Noelle and Susie ...I feel like Gaster, for some reason, genuinely cares about these 3 kids. If that's the case, I think Gaster might end up transcending time and space in order to kick us in the face when he finds out what we're doing in the weird route.
@@nezrafallon4086 Ahh interesting interpretation. I meant it as "leaving the weird route" being something he doesn't want us to do, but that's very possible too. Fun!
@@nezrafallon4086 when you think about it like that, gaster is kinda like another player he gets attached to the characters and mad when you do something bad to them also resetting if you name yourself gaster, no one else should be able to do that except maybe another player
@@imarandomsella. oh my god gaster is a player who inserted himself into the game when he was scattered into pieces he was actually just playing a different game or deleted undertale
Until it is disproven, I have chosen to believe that there are 7 total chapters, an intermission after the third, two chapter-chapters of chapter five, a second intermission afterwards, and in chapter six, six chapter-chapters, and six more chapter-chapter-chapters. Not to mention chapter six's five intermissions, six intermission-intermissions, and chapter six chapter six's five additional intermissions.
Since Chapter 3 could take place during night, its possible that 3 & 4 happen in the same day, meaning that Chapter 8 would be the logical final chapter Edit: Look, I don't wanna be that guy, but HOLY CRAP I HAVE NEVER GOTTEN THIS MANY LIKES BEFORE
@@insertnamehere1398 I think they meant 3 & 4 because someone's been making fountains in the mornings but chapter 2 ended with Kris making a fountain at night, which means there could be 2 fountains in the span of 1 day. Alternatively, we'll miss the morning fountain because we'll be in a dark world at the time, someone else will deal with it while we're not around to see, & the consequences will unfold with no initial input from us. Maybe Noelle will deal with it & Berdly will help her if he's alive but if he's not, she'll go off the rails & kill an entire world while we're not around to stop her.
@@D_YellowMadness i mostly agree with this, except for the last part. WE are the ones manipulating and controlling noelle in the snowgrave route. she doesnt want to do it. if noelle were to go into a dark world alone, she wouldnt "go off the rails and kill an entire world while we're not around to stop her", because we are the ones actively causing it in the first place. if we were there on a snowgrave route, we would be the cause of her doing it again.
@@D_YellowMadness but that also means that someone else other than Kris, could be making the dark fountains. Which means Kris is mimicking the actions of the Knight for some reason and is not the original
I did want to give one small correction: when Toby said that "these numbers can be somewhat deceptive" at 0:44, he almost certainly was referring to the completion percentages, not the chapter numbers. Elsewhere in the quote he talks about how he tends to change his mind about certain details late in development, so it can be hard for him to estimate how close to being finished any given aspect of a work in progress is. Other than that, though, another fantastic video as always!
That last sentence about the possibility that the 7 melodies are supposed to be played at the same time reminds me a lot of the Mother series. Specifically how the first 2 games have you collect 8 melodies that are supposed to be played in order. Considering how much inspiration Undertale and Deltarune take from those games it wouldn’t surprise me if combining them yielded something interesting (just that the way they’re combined would would be different).
tl:dr; you can listen to Circus and Dialtone together (if speed is adjusted) and that works, so this has a good chance of working too This is almost definitely the case for Circus (the song that plays outside of Jevil's door) and Dialtone (the song that plays in Spamton's shop). By messing with the speed, both songs line up perfectly. I would link a video of that here, but 1. I'm lazy and 2. there's a chance links are blocked - it's not too hard to find, though. Since both play before secret bosses, we can assume that the next 5 (or 6) secret bosses will also have a "prelude" track which can be added on to make a complete song. So not only is the notion that putting together the 7 melodies to spell "wdgaster" makes a song possible because of Earthbound, there's precedent for it.
There's also the possibility that these single-digit songs are hints towards the "secret routes" in each storyline. That would require further chapters before a conclusion could be reached. But if it's right, then that would imply that the moment the other entity claimed control from Gaster, they began the "alternate route" for Chapter 1. Which makes sense; it's pretty easy to assume that Gaster's plans were muddied by this other entity claiming control...
it seems like this entity that interrupted gaster beginning their "secret route" is trying to spell his name even tho the game doesn't allowed to, breaking from the path further and further each chapter.
that would imply that you start the "secret route" right before the berdly fight, ignoring everything that happens since noelle joins your party. that could mean that kris was being controlled by another entity and his "alternate route" started way before the player starts to control him, but honestly i would just wait until more chapters release lol
@darker8484 Well, more accurately, the implications is either that the noise plays at the "point of decision" in the route - the Berdly fight is the last chance to abort the route - or that it simply plays at *some point* during each alternate route to mark that as the anomaly. But yes, as I said and you confirmed, this would take further chapters to strengthen. As of now, it's just me spitballing.
@@amf3118 I also wanted to say that it's interesting that the letters "w" and "d" are both in lower case! As if it's not gaster telling us these letters, but someone else trying to warn us(?) or reveal(?) to us his name for some reason, just like what you're saying!!
Both one-letter songs appear at a point where control over another is lost, W for when the hijack happens and D for when Noelle breaks out of her trance. Not much to add to that, but it's worth noting.
The Twisted Sword is ONLY accessible by aborting the snowgrave route at the point of Waking Noelle, and since thats (assuming) connected with the Gaster letters, and the Twisted Sword seems to have an ability to LOWER Trance... Which judging from Noelle gives control over her... And that the Twisted Sword can only be equiped by Kris... We would be lowering Kris' susceptibility to control... ... This is most likely the way to another Ending or something like that. Another way to push the story off the rails
It could be that you can get it back in a completed snowgrave route in future chapters, but I do hope the only way is to abort a snowgrave route because it's more interesting.
Gosh, right? Since I found out about the twisted sword a part of me has been like: is there a THIRD route? Most everyone else overlooks this cause they assume we could “get the thorn ring later on if Noelle rejoins our party” but. . . What if we can’t? What if that IS the third route? What really strikes me about it, too, is how “unsatisfying” it is. (Paralleling how boring/tedious most of the Genocide route in UT is??)The route “goes back to normal” and our horrific actions are never really brought up again. Hijinks re-ensue and the only real difference is we’ve “lost” some recruits. . . Could also tie into the three save files too. . Very, VERY interesting. . . (PS: Another off the wall theory I have is that we might be able to unlock. . something. . if we successfully have 2 or 3 conflicting routes “ongoing.” Like if one save file was a “True Pacifist,” one a “Snowgrave” and maybe the final one a Neutral or “Gaster” route. . . Bonkers, but who knows? As Toby continues to tinker away on his masterpiece my brain just keeps on spinning).
@@rion2499 Yeah! And Noelle said that she will figure out what is wrong with Kris, so I really dont think Noelle will join our party again, unless something doesnt work out in Noelle's plan
Gonna add on that d.ogg uses the same rhythm as the Merry CD from Omori (which Toby composed) and if you know anything about Omori “waking up” is a pretty central game mechanic/theme
At the beginning of chapter 1, Toriel mentions that Asriels' coming back from college in a week, so I assumed that something would happen when he came back. However that wouldn't make sense if there was only seven chapters cause he would arrive by the eighth, so if there were more chapters that would explain that.
That assumes 1 day = 1 chapter, but with how things are for Ch3 there is implication it is happening at night. So depending on how the chapters work it may still work.
Hmm, Toriel says "next week", so since it appears to be Thursday in chapter 1, it could be that even if chapters 3 and 4 take place in the same day, Asriel could still come home by chapter 7, right?
Or imagine if chapter 7 ends on some earthshattering moment, like the roaring has happened and everyone's like welp guess we die now, cut to black, credits roll, then "to be continued in chapter 8"
That's really interesting to think about- I have no idea if chapter 0 will be a thing, but personally, I really like the idea of there being seven chapters- like the seven days of the week. But Chapter 0 could still be a possibility if, like you said, a part of the ending would be related to restarting somehow... The "w" and "d" songs do seem to build up to spelling W. D. Gaster, but I guess we'll see if that's true once more chapters will release.
I think a restart has already happened. When you reload, there is a sort of residue left over. Some characters like Toriel, Papyrus and Sans can tell when this has happened. They normally think its some sort of deja-vu In deltarune, when you talk to Onion-san, he talks to you about the song from the sea. "it's not a new song, I feel like I already heard the whole thing... but I can't remember, ya hear? I can't remember.... I can't remember..." An exact explanation of why I think is too long for a comment, but... I think the world of deltarune already took place. I do think that Gaster is the one who set events into motion, but began to care about Susie and her two new friends, at which point he tried to stop the end, but it was too late. They lost. I think a Player is controlling the knight, and there was no way to win against that opponent. Gaster, sans and a few others escaped to the world of Undertale, which is why sans is loaded up on weapons, battle tactics, and even psychological stuff and a hell of a lot of anger towards us, all to try and stop you. Along with other details, such as a goner who talks to you about how awesome susie is, which spawns a drawing in Sans's lab of "3 smiling figures, with the words 'dont forget' written on it", or Gaster saying "you're about to meet someone very very wonderful" after naming yourself after Kris, Noelle, or Susie. Even in the core, there's light fixtures throughout -- Neon tubes, colored light blue/yellow/purple (color associated with kris, noelle and susie). And now, we're coming back for round 2. Gaster is using us as a tool to prevent the roaring. He did say to us: "I look forward to creating a new future with you" right before he sends us the Survey Program. Sure, the dude has all that satanic motifs going on... but when the enemy is 'heaven' (our reality) and the angels (the players), is that really a bad thing?
@@nezrafallon4086 That sounds interesting, though I personally don't agree with all of it- it's still interesting to think about what Gaster feels about the player, and also how exactly could the Gaster fun events in UT relate to DR's story.
Maybe the reason the chapter amount is so unclear is because player choices impact which chapters you can acess? Like maybe the story ends sooner under specific circumstances. Just a small theory.
@@marsgreekgod We dont really know what he defines as an "ending" here. He may mean there is one path the story takes (this cant really be the case in an absolute way as snowgrave has proven) or just one general way the game ends. Just like how all games fundamentally end with the player closing the game, he may not mean endings like they were in undertale. He could just be refering to some major event that always is the finish of the game.
I wonder if the concept of "Wake" in that fight is that Noelle gets stronger if you can get her to go beyond the pale while she's more aware of her actions. Like by getting her to kill her friend when she's not in a trance. If that is the idea, what about when she's fully awake & aware? Like in the light world? Will the full weird route involve getting her or someone else to kill someone in the light world where they can't ignore the consequences & their crimes will leave behind real evidence that other people can see? "Kill your mom, Noelle. She's holding you back. Making you weak." "Kill Toriel, Asgore. Your codependence is making you weak." "Kill Asgore, Toriel. He's cringe."
I think there would be more of a reason than Asgore being "Cringe", we just don't know what happened yet. Asgore probably did [Hyperlink blocked] or had something to do with [Hyperlink blocked] and isn't as innocent as he seems here.
About how w.ogg and d.ogg might mean 8 chapters, I think that there's just too many ways for it to not follow that pattern, since we really only have 2 data points. What stands out to me is the possibility the next one could just be gaster.ogg, to complete "W D Gaster", since his first names are always initialized. The idea about how it ties in with not being able to type in the R in Gaster is cool though, reminds me of the stuff with Doopliss in TTYD. Related to how the letters might indicate the number of chapters, I thought you would mention more stuff about numbers in undertale and deltarune. Obviously 6, 66, 666, etc all have their satan and gaster connections, but 7 also appears as the number of human souls, the number of flowers in asgore's shop, and maybe could be tied to 17 since same last digit. 3 also comes up a fair bit, considering how the game is named DELTArune, you have 3 party members, 3 save slots, etc. As an Andrew Cunningham subscriber I am obligated to mention 3rd entity theory (although it would kinda suck if true i dont like it). I think the point about how both songs show up at someone "waking up" is interesting, since there's just so many connections with the theme of sleep and dreams and waking up. "Hopes and Dreams", the way that going to bed transports you right to the dark world, all the talk about the dark world being like a "dream world" (and how deltarune might get really similar to omori), the way you put enemies to sleep to spare them and how jevil talks of "going to sleep for 100 years", all the nightmare talk, the neo body being "the embodiment of a Lightner's dream", and I guess even how darkness is associated with sleep because of night. Maybe it's even all tied how deltarune came from Toby's fever dream, although that would maybe mean that it would have been a lucid dream if he was aware that he was dreaming.
@@cloverlovania "It would be way too on the nose" Gaster's Theme is literally called "Gaster's Theme" in the Undertale sound test. A song in Deltarune being called gaster.ogg would not be on the nose at all given the precedence there.
@@paradoxicaloutcome1007 i could see gaster.ogg appearing in a later chapter but definitely not in like .... chapter 3 or something as this person is suggesting
@@cloverlovania The original comment doesn't say Chapter 3 anywhere. It just says "the next one". Maybe I'm just being charitable. As far as that goes you're right, we're probably not getting gaster.ogg in Chapter 3, but it's definitely not out of the question for the next one to just be gaster.ogg.
Gaster could be wanting us to do a Thorn Ring route. That is get the Thorn Ring and then abandon the Weird route. That way we can get the Twisted Sword, which has a Trance Down effect. Which fits with the idea of waking. Maybe these songs will guide us down a secret route.
I came up with a crazy theory... but the song letters will be W D G A S T R. We already have E, Ice E. I say this non-ironically. Thinking back to how Ice E's lair ties into describing what Deltarune feels like and how this world somehow represents the Goners from Undertale despite Gaster falling into the core in Undertale. Everything with Deltarune is so off, from the mystery of Kris in the Bunker to the implications from the Apple Deflection and Whispering to Susie that Kris may have Reset before, even Dess going missing with potential for it to be in the Dark World. Or not, who knows at this point? I am worried once we get Chapters 3-5 that if we wait too long for the remaining chapters to be released we will solve the game.
Something tells me that, after all the Undertale theorizing, and how deep he KNOWS his fans dig into his code and game files, that he's already prepared for a scenario like that and will implement certain story twists that completely subvert anything we, as a community, could come up with.
Kinda surprised I haven't heard anyone talking about how the eggs might just be a Chrono Trigger reference. In Chrono Trigger, when you obtain the actual Chrono Trigger, it's also called the Time Egg and it's stated that "no one knows what will happen when or if it hatches. Maybe nothing, maybe something."
The place in Chrono Trigger where the Time Egg is used almost looks a bit similar to the rooms in DELTARUNE wherein you get the Chapter 1 Egg too, with a lone tree standing in the middle of an outstretched bit of land.
It's a stretch, but the W in the first song might have the same meaning as it does in WD Gaster, aka "Wing". It could theoretically be tied to the Angel's Wings.
there's also the theory that gaster is creating the universe of deltarune as a simulation, and on the snowgrave route, you are killing everyone, breaking everyone and your choices DO matter (opposite of non snowgrave, since fighting/sparing wont kill an enemy). His name appearing in letters might be a hint to the player, warning the player that gaster is trying to stop you from continuing this path, which does kinda make sense with w.ogg, considering that it plays after the 2nd narrator (in your case, chara) abrupting gaster from the gonermaker.
My thoughts are that Chapter 0 is probably going to be a flashback prologue that shows what happened to Des, why Toriel and Asgore split, etc. So it'll be very short and probably won't appear until late in the game. As for chapters 8-10, either it's the "true" route that brings you to the ending, or these will be alternate versions of chapters brought on by doing the Snowgrave route. The changes brought on by Snowgrave may eventually snowball so much that new chapter scenarios are needed entirely.
I think there’s something to be said for the fact that d.ogg comes from Omori’s “Merry CD” made by Toby Fox. Itself being a Christmas themed song in the game with that connection to Noelle. Maybe w.ogg is Kris’ waking up and d.ogg is Noelle (or Dess’?) waking up?
It's interesting that the Wake action actually causes Noelle's magic to rise. You'd think by Wake-ing up she'd lower her magic as she's breaking free from the murder fueled powering trance but the opposite happens. Especially when Dark Worlds have the theme of dreams, then you'd really think Waking up would relate to getting weaker inside them. And then comes the fact you can only do it against fighting Berdly, a fight that getting a higher magic number doesn't really help you. The whole thing is just odd.
Having more than 7 chapters would be a dream come true. Or maybe some chapters are only accessable in certain route(s)? We have no choice but to wait and see, I guess.
Hiding an entire Chapter behind a split path is very unlike Toby in the context of Deltarunes design. There is optional stuff, but that's more side jokes, additional dialogue and a secret boss at most. Seeing how much time Toby spends on Chapters it's simply not worth the effort.
@@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat Since you don't answer anymore, i just want to explain: I never argued what he wants or will do. I said what it would look like if Deltarune had more than 7 chapters. I don't have to explain this, just like you shouldn't ignore that part of my statement. Another confirmation that people only think about that part of the message they want, and that's the reason why they misunderstand everything.
3:00 Isnt it written in one of the status updates that he will release the game “with the price of the first five chapters”? Presumably that implies that we will buy the game when Chapters 3-5 come out (with a reduced price), and chapters 6 and 7 will then subsequently come out and will be available for free for the people who have already bought the game. At least I think. Maybe I’m wrong here.
Finally, someone else is talking about how Snowgrave is connected to Gaster! I'm officially not the only one! I wrote a lengthy theory a couple months ago that talked about how w.ogg and d.ogg and flashback_excerpt.ogg inextricably tied Gaster to the Weird Route, but it didn't get much attention.
@@anon4305 It's pretty simple, in hindsight, but I lumped it in with some other topics. Here's an incredibly brief summary: The part that concerns Gaster is the fact that flashback_excerpt.ogg inarguably has Gaster's Theme as the most prominent leitmotif, and "w" and "d" can be seen as the first letters of his name, W.D. Gaster. In addition, since "d.ogg" is played before the Snowgrave Berdly fight, this ties Gaster to two Weird Route-exclusive tracks. Gaster seems to be taking the role of some kind of scientist in the DR universe, conducting an experiment with the soul we control. He seems to be outerworldly, as indicated by his presence on Twitter. If we assume that the second voice in the Goner Maker is *not* Gaster, then that would create a convincing argument that Gaster only cares about you, or your soul, and *not* Kris. And as part of an experiment, particularly on creatures, you want to expose the subject to different types of stimuli to analyze their reactions. One key point the game hammers into your skull is that your choices don't matter. And yet, we're able to force our way past that and cause the Weird Route. I'd like to raise a question, though: When we froze the first Virovirokun, *who made the choice?* It certainly wasn't Kris, they didn't do anything of their own accord. It could of course be us, but if our choices don't matter, then it logically follows that it shouldn't matter if we chose IceShock or not. Someone *else* made the choice, or at least aided you in making it. I believe the Weird Route is Gaster subtly pulling the strings to give you a choice in the world, one which has actual, profound meaning. His actions, giving you a chance to truly end the life of a Darkner, has a ripple effect that lets you make Noelle, a character also tied to Gaster, strong enough to kill a real Lightner. And by the end of it all, right at the culmination of the chapter, his theme plays again, nearly unmodified from the original, to remind you that he's around.
HBC, I need to tell you, I personally have a difficult time deciphering TTS, but the minute I see you've uploaded I rush to the nearest quiet space so I can fully concentrate, and it's worth it every time 👀
One idea I thought about from this video is what if each save file unlocks a different version of chapter 0? Like we know all of the worlds of each save file are slightly different, what if doing different routes in each one that break the game (i.e. One Snowgrave, One Thorn Ring Only, and One Egg Only for example but idk the scope of what's beyond Ch. 2) correlated to unlocking a secret chapter for each file? I could see toby making getting to Chapter 0 on each file like a different part of the puzzle, and the player has to complete all three weird routes to unlock the full ending of the game. It would add up with there being no coded data for anything beyond Ch. 7, and would make sense as to why they'd label them differently. That's just a guess though. Interesting topic! I can't believe that so many discoveries are still being made about these games 2 years after their current chapter releases. That WD thing kinda blew my mind, because I had no idea w.ogg was even a track, let alone that it paired thematically with d.ogg like that. Strangest sentence out of context. I just thought d.ogg was a dog joke ngl lmao
Something I'd like to mention as I've watched Andrew Cunningham's video MANY times is that the "Moderate" was not about having a moderate gaster reference, but being a moderate *case of brain rot in hearing gaster in it* He did say it's possible but not plausible all things considered, however that also isn't a disprove of man = gaster
having more than the 7 makes sense. so far its been 1 per day, with an upcoming night chapter. but asriel comes home "in a week", so we need about 7 days including chapter one (so 8+ chapters), or to skip a day.
All remote security I ever had thinking I had a general concept of the basic structure and intention of this game were just promptly shattered. I now am gonna end up completely paronoid about whether we can trust anything the game or Toby says about it, what is legit evidence and what is a distraction, how much is a genuine promise and how much is absolute gaslighting. The game could be 2 demos and a single final one payment release and no chapters, or it could even be 11+ Chapters long, I have zero clue what to believe anymore, what is the normal route or what is the gaster route. I have no safety in anything anymore, the entire game may very well be a series of false leads that end up as one of the most insane ARGs of a metanarrative ever told, and that just makes me thinking it's possible for the ending Toby had as a feaver dream back in 2012 to be along the sorts, because that's the only possibility that sounds as mindblowing and insane to me as he described his obsession with making the game a reality. I have zero clue of what is even real anymore about this series, aside from the fact that SOMETHING connected to Gaster is related, but only Toby knows what, genuinely, he probably hasn't even let his own Team know in case of potential leaks. Regardless, this video has made me more hyped and fearful for the potential insanity this game awaits, maybe all the patterns so far are real, maybe they're just to give us a false sense of security, maybe they're real and this details are to make us unsure, regardless, I am now more eager than ever to see where this madman takes us with the future of this game, as I now feel like I have a slight possibility of understanding options for how this man has seen FREEDOM himself, and is eager to shatter our minds the same way he has. Regardless, if there ever was a contender for a piece of media to be a subversion of ITSELF? DELTARUNE is the prime suspect
Wait, what if when you get more of the single letter songs, you can combine all them into one song, and you get a new song? I tried combining w.ogg and d.ogg and it didn't sound like much yet, but maybe it will sound better when you combine ALL of them. Guess we gotta wait and see.
I think Chapter 0 is very possible to be a real thing, because OFF has a Chapter 0 and Toby is a huge fan of OFF. Maybe not something selectable from a menu, but a story event.
yeah a chapter 0 might happen though i do think it's most likely placeholder code there. computers start counting from 0 so if he didn't have that, the code would reference chapter 1 as chapter 0 and chapter 7 as chapter 6, which isn't very readable. so if chapter 0 happens as an off reference (good game btw) it'll likely be unrelated to that code.
I'm not sure if this is relevant or not, but in OMORI, Toby made a song called Merry CD, or Another Holliday, that contains a major leitmotif of the main melody of d.ogg. I feel like it could be argued both ways on weather this is relevant or not. On one hand, the song title is "Another Holliday" which not only links d.ogg to Noelle, but also possibly to Another Him. But on the other hand, its in a completely different game. Personally, I believe the former.
I think Chapter 8 is “R” Let me explain; As you established, each chapter likely represents each letter of “WDGASTER” W 1 D 2 G 3 A 4 S 5 T 6 E 7 R ? As we know, trying to type the “R” in “GASTER” takes us back to the very beginning so what if we take that literally? This would mean Chapter 7 will loop us back around to Chapter 1, and we need to somehow break the loop. Since typing “GASTER” is what causes us to restart, the only way to stop looping is to ensure we don’t spell “GASTER” in the first place…. Right? I actually think it’s the opposite. I think we’re looping because we *can’t* spell “GASTER”. Only when we successfully spell his name and get to the end of it can we put an end to everything. So until we figure out the clues laid out for us in each chapter to break the cycle can we finally stop looping back at letter “E” and get to “R” Toby saying there will be “only 1 ending..?” likely alludes to the fact that looping back to the start isn’t an ending at all. After all, something that goes on forever can’t be said to have an end. The obvious thing that leads to an ending? Breaking that infinite cycle, for good. So until we can find a way to Chapter 8, we can’t beat the loop. An obvious answer for what gets us to Chapter 8 would be the “weird” route, the one path where to don’t do things as intended and in an odd way, a way that seemingly goes off course from the usual, infinitely repeating path. Which may be a red herring, and perhaps we have to do the cycle each unique way to know how to truly break free. (Maybe a normal run in one save slot, weird in another, and a true run in the last? That’s a theory for another day though).
i like to think that gaster isn’t actually behind most of what we see in deltarune, and his main relevance is due to his death spreading him and his works all across space and time, leading to some of his entries and research ending up in the world of deltarune. i’m pretty sure that everyman (yes that guy) would have happened to find them before being exiled for researching “dark science” (the study of how dark worlds and fountains work, apparently something gaster was trying to tap into according to entry number 17). he then would try to seek recognition by becoming a children’s pizza mascot (ice-e, of course) but he soon realizes that people think he’s a freak. this causes him to snap, deciding to find people who care about him once and for all, opening dark fountains across the town in secret. (also i’m pretty sure that whatever is behind those red doors has something to do with it, considering the garbage noise.) all the darkeners consider him as the all powerful knight, while he doesn’t have a single clue what he’s even doing, hiding away to give out eggs (i mean he’s a bird so…) to anyone determined enough to seek him out. ok i think i just typed way too much and kinda derailed the topic but yeah great video halfbread!
Gaster is literally the entity we "connect" with at the beginning of Chapter 1. In _specifically_ Chapter 1's save file menu, he also says some very odd things depending on what you do on that menu. We know this is him because his type speed and manner of speech is exactly the same as shown in "Entry #17", just in a normal alphanumeric font and without his signature, disjointed speech sounds. He also appears every time we die in Chapter 1 to offer us another try, or says the world is covered in darkness if we choose not to try again. In Chapter 2, he no longer appears every death, but he still appears and says the same thing if we choose not to continue after a death. This is indisputably Gaster. I've noticed a lot of UT/DR fans these days love to try as hard as they can to distance Gaster from the lore with arguments like "He isn't actually canon", or "He was only a special event in UT, not meant to be taken seriously.", despite _direct references to him and Deltarune_ being added to the Switch port of UT just a couple of weeks prior to the Chapter 1 shadow drop. Gaster absolutely, definitely has some form of major control or oversight of our journey in Deltarune, and will be a major entity that determines what this game is even about. Him secretly being Ice-E and going insane, while pretty funny, isn't the kind of vibe I think Toby's going for with the character. I feel that, if we ever get anything comical or funny with Gaster, it'll be LATE game, if at all. Personally, I think he'll only be used in a serious context, keeping the sillier side of the game separate from anything directly tied to him, aside from maybe the way characters like Jevil and Spamton act, which is both funny and disturbing. He's definitely involved with whatever affected them, too. I'm not sure what you meant by the Everyman stuff, or Gaster being a bird, though. He's probably not a bird.
So, the reason chapter 0 likely even exists is because coding starts at 0 for most forms of code 0, 1, 2, 3 instead of 1, 2, 3 for example But, what if its there for a different reason? Chapter 0 being the start of a timeloop to get the actual ending that isn't an advanced game over. OR chapter 0 being gaster judging you after you do everything exactly right to get to his, room or whatever and he does, something maybe just calls you evil and puts you in a box you can't leave as a form of after credits scene
I do think there might be a false ending that will end the story at chapter 7, and will force us to restart, since my best guess chapter 8 will have us meet asriel, and he’ll be important to get the actual ending, given the chain of events, so as such we may get our battle with the knight in chapter 7.
it being called the weird route instead of genocide or something like that could mean that this isnt supposed to happen and if you mix around the letters in snowgrave it gives you wrong save
I just thought of something- the game stresses pretty heavily that We are NOT Kris. They’re separate. What does it mean that the intro voice specifically says “Your name is Kris”?
It kinda depends on who we think the intro voice is. My money is on Kris, so "Your name is Kris" is literally just Kris themself telling them that we are now in control of them. After all, while we are not Kris, no one else in this world is aware of that, so in a way our name is basically Kris.
I was very very tempted to point out... the voice says "your name is...." and then we wake to hear Toriel say "Kris." But that doesn't necessarily mean that's how the voice was going to complete that sentence.
I just realized that spamton would actually be a corrupted ad or a scam one. Cause he says hyperlinked blocked meaning he’s trying to sell something but it got blocked ( see in so dmart)
On the note of "d.ogg", something interesting I found is that when sped up, it seems to use filtered versions of the bass guitar and drums that are used only in Megalovania, of all songs. Very interesting...
...Chapter 0 could be considered the opening sequence before Chapter 1, in which case, we didn't get W in chapter one, we got W in chapter 0, skipped chapter 1, got D in Chapter 2. 0-2-4-6-8-10-12-14 W D G A S T E R. If we assume that the weird route spins off into two different chapters, (Chapters 3/4 perhaps?), with Chapter 5 bringing things back together, then 6/7 could be the opposite, with 6 being the weird and 7 being the normal, 8 being a convergence, then 9 and 10 being the split with 10 being weird. It'd be a strange pattern, but it would make sense, keep with the theming of 7 total days and allow the entirety of Gaster's name to be spelled.
Not sure what to make of this. I've always made the assumption that Gaster cuts off players who engage in snowgrave route for obvious reasons. He did work for the betterment of monster kind before falling into his creation and I assumed nothing changed from this. Maybe he's more morally dubious than we thought in the same way Alphys is?
Oh damn, if the D is for dream, that would have another implication. When queen talks about Noelle during the weird route, she says that she must go onto a "deeper dream" since she has grown too powerful. As if she was already dreaming.
These theories are the best and most bizarre ive ever heard, and yet they make all the sense, the animation is great, and i cant wait for the next one, THIS CHANNEL IS, VERY VERY INTERESTING.
My theory has always been that there is no chance that the game keeps following the chapter formula. 3, 4, and 5 will all happen like normal, then chapter 6 happens and proceeds as normal until the end where everything gets messed up (like Undertale's neutral route). Toby would be free to use those intro files for whatever, like randomly throw the player into chapter 9 where everything doesn't make sense and you missed part of the story, or reset the game to chapter 0 or even a chapter that has already been played but its different in some way.
bro started with a question of how many chapters deltarune have, and finished with an theory about wd gaster resets the whole deltarune universe in the final
I think the Chapter 1 image is very likely to be used in the future, I just don't see how a Chapter 1 rework is not going to happen when they have almost all if not actually all the internal data listings(like enemy IDs with related data and the entire textscript) copied over unused in the chapter 2-related files. They pretty clearly only integrated the old Chapter 1-files because doing that was more convenient for the early release.
7:44 actually, i think the d means wd because in chapter one, its called w..combine w and d and you get wd, gaster's name is wd. gaster there may be at least 9 chapters but the next 2 are hidden if the songs are gonna spell out wd. gaster or even 10 if you count the ., but i also think the other chapters may be a placeholder...but why would he make more than one? also, the wd gaster thing i explained does line up with there being 9-10 chapters edit: wait, i might agree with @NoTrueShape the chapters might be sub chapters..and as a reply in that comment said, maybe its a snowgrave exclusive? or maybe alternate route exclusive (aka doing the alt route every chapter if there is more alt routes) edit 2: oops i counted wrong and hbo actually noticed the gaster thing..oh well
The quote at the end about all 7 melodies being played together is very reminiscent of Earthbound where to save the world you need to play the eight melodies once again hinting at an 8th chapter but otherwise maybe being just a coll reference.
Since you brought up Andrew Cunningham's video about Gaster's theme, it reminded me of the conclusion he drew that the Noelle and Gaster have some sort of connection, since their motifs are similar. Since "d.ogg" plays during a scene with Noelle, and "w.ogg" plays after the character creation, I'm starting to think that Dess is the one who interrupted the character creation. I think it makes a lot of sense for her character to do so anyway. If the character creation had gone as intended, then we'd be playing as the vessel instead of Kris. But what would have happened to Kris? The vessel would have taken their place, and no one would would realize. Dess was trying to save Kris from ending up in the void with her, because they were friends.
If there's a chapter 0 its not gonna be a real chapter, more likely telling us something that happened before chapter 1 after some big reveal. Ive seen it done before
Well done to Brix and you for noticing and thinking about how those two "single-letter" music file names could fit together! If future Chapters have Weird Routes too, perhaps there will be a certain combination of Normal and Weird Routes though the Chapters that results in all of the "single-letter" tracks playing, and that results in something special.
Hey halfbread, d.ogg seems to be a remix of a song toby fox made for omori, the merry cd, which strengthens it's connection to Noelle I'd say. I'd give it a listen there's a UA-cam vid comparing them, could toby have been leaving clues in omori considering his friendship with omocat?
it’s crazy how it’s been 8 years and people are still losing their mind about gaster
its amazing that undertale has been around for a third of my life...
Aint no way its been 8 years. How?
And I'll keep losing my mind as chapters come out because there ain't no way he's not crazy important in deltarune
Forgetting about him would be like the fnaf community just forgetting about purple guy 3 or 4 games in, tho both of those games were the "final" game in the series but you get what I mean
@@guffthebir72 2015 was 8 years ago I guess
Since we're only able to access Ch2 for now, I'm very baffled, scared and excited for how chapter 6 and beyond are handled.
i cant wait to show my grandkids deltarune chapter 7 when it comes out
well, it's kind of sad that toby would release chapter 3,4,5 at the same time because we won't have enough time to predict what would happen at the next chapter
well yeah i know it's even better but that's my opinion
@@37_The_Star_Of_Hermesyeah it would be good if they released individually kinda like bendy and the ink machine to create hype for the next chapter
@@37_The_Star_Of_Hermes Trust me when I say that we as a community probably don't want that.
Predictions can be fun, but games also need to fairly foreshadow stuff. Given a large part of this game right now is the mysteries the more time and information we get the more we can pull a Persona 5.
The short version is in P5 there is a Traitor, the equivlent to the Knight in Deltarune. In P5 the traitor witnesses you in Ch3 and interacts with you in Ch4 giving away their identity if you pay slight attention but in Ch5 it acts as a reveal. This ends up very anti-climatic and makes the big deal of finding the Traitor feel trivial.
Imagine waiting for a month or even a year. The community would analyze Chapters 3 and 4 to solve chapter 5. It is why Toby eventually has to do batch releases. Otherwise we will solve it and the impact starts to go way down.
Consider how much this game shares with Undertale, as much like how P4's structure could be used to solve P5, this means Deltarune is in a situation where it is very likely trying to predict 6+ could negatively impact the community's experience.
Toby also has a tendency to use 1-letter, vague filenames for spoiler songs. For example, most of the songs that play when you fight Asriel in Undertale are labeled "x", and Chara's theme is just called "c".
Indeed, I think the song names could be abbreviations, like:
w - wrench (in the gears) / wake up
d - double trouble / don't do this
The first two non-belonging letters being w and d may be a red herring. Toby already kinda made a point about datamining his games.
Fs in the chat for people who watched chapter 2 download and saw "krisopendarkfountain.ogg"
Sort of but not exactly. Here are all the songs in Undertale specifically that could fit this bill:
mus_a2 (plays when you fight Asriel Dreemur, at the second stage where he transforms. Slowly fades out as 'you try to reach your save file.... but nothing happens.')
mus_f_(6s_[number], alarm, destroyed_[number], finale_[number], intro, newlaugh, part_[number]) (these are all for Omega Flowey and likely named this way to make it obvious)
mus_x_undyne and mus_x_undyne_pre ("But the Earth Refused to Die" and Battle Against a True Hero, this one still has a full name ('undyne') but the 'x' here is meant to indicate that these 2 songs are for the Genoroute, when she turns into The True Hero)
mus_xpart_(2, a, b, back) (aka "Hopes and Dreams." Plays when you fight Asriel Dreemur. Perhaps the "x" is actually for "heroic" themes...)
mus_z_ending (plays during the sans phonecall in a neutral ending)
mus_zz_megalovania (you know this one this is... but notably though it is marked with a 'z', the full name is still there 'megalovania')
mus_zzz_c ("It's me... Chara", note that it's not called 'c' but 'zzz_c'. The 'z' here might be meant to indicate the players is approaching a 'bad ending' or 'bad time')
mus_zzz_c2 (plays if you refuse to cooperate with Chara and they uh... creepy-pasta at the screen before swinging your knife and destroying the world)
~~
The reason I did not bring this up in the video proper is because none of these songs are one single letter ('mus_a2' is the closest we get and does not seem to be indicative of a pattern) and because Deltarune and Undertale do not seem to share naming schemes for their songs. All of the songs in Deltarune's gamefiles lack the "mus" precursor and none of the "Weird Route" exclusive music has any special markers (for example "berdly_battle_heartbeat_true" and flashback_excerpt are not marked with any special letters or phrases, and thus blend in with other similarly named, normal-route songs, like 'berdly_flashback')
"w" and "d" on the other hand, are unique amongst both soundtracks. Even "snd_b" starts with 'snd'. So why are these two so special?
Good observation though! This was actually my very first thought when I started writing the script! Perhaps I should add it to a pinned FAQ near the top, since I under seem to have underestimated the number of game-file browsing nerds like us, haha.
@@HalfBreadChaosIn Gamemaker Studio, asset names usually start with a short indicator of what asset it is (to distinguish assets and make it easier to reference in the code). For example, s or snd = sound asset, o or obj = object asset, ect.
The thing that makes w and d more significant than snd_a2 is the lack of that indicator. Personally, as someone who uses Gamemaker, when an asset doesn’t use an indicator (like “game” instead of “obj_game”) it’s usually something important.
Also, I caught onto the “w + d = Gaster” and “wdgaster = eight chapters” the moment I saw “d”, this seems very intentional (also, d.ogg = dog is just funny, whether intentional or not)
Extremely suspicious that you can also skip to the dark worlds in each chapter by immediately going back to bed, whereupon you 'wake up' in the Dark World.
Iirc that only happen if you finished the chapter at least once, probably a speedrun thing.
@@RaphielShiraha64 it's still an interesting choice of how to frame that speedrun thing
@@LilacMonarch i like to imagine susie breaks into your home and drags you into the dark worlds when you fall asleep
fuck new theory, what if the real world was not actually real and the "dreams" were
@@qlx-ioh.
oh no.
I feel like any chapters besides 1-7 would be like the Photoshop Flowey fight, outside of the ordinary gameplay.
Makes sense, also would be very cool :]
Will this imply Gaster is actually a corrupted time-space warping monster?
365 likes 1 year gg
@@Whitesnake273imply???? dude gaster is straight up strewn throughout all time and space, there's no world where he _isn't._
@@lilyofluck371 I know but what if he's a corrupted monster like Photoshop Flowey?
Another connection to the wake dream stuff beyond the "dark worlds being dreams" thing is in the weird route susie and queen have this exchange.
Susie: "Noelle needs to wake up!"
Queen: Wake? No She Has Already Awakened Too Much
Let Her Close Her Eyes And Sleep Away
Into a Darker, Darker, Dream
Beyond the darker darker obviously, queen also seems to be happy about this as she's smiling?? And right before this she also says noelle needs to rest... Interesting...
This text doubles down on the idea of "Waking" being the opposite of Noelle coming to her senses for a second before the Berdly fight. "Wake" as an act in that fight has her fall MORE under our control, gaining more strength in the process (the magic stat increases). Queen also suggests that, compared to a normal run, Snowgrave Noelle is more "awoken" and it's for her own good that she "sleep" again.
Very strange that the word used for falling into a trance is to "wake"...
I think it's just that queens smile is her default face, and she doesn't have a "serious" face. Of course, that's just a memory from my playthrough of weird route, which I did like two years ago.
Susie thinks that noelle should wake up from her “dream” while queen thinks she’s already too awoken that it isn’t, that she thinks she should go back into a trance, a dream.
@@Sandstheskeleton Well, Susie is a lightner and Queen is a darkner. maybe they have different perception on what waking and sleep is?
Besides, I think queen was catching onto what happened more than Susie did. Susie probably just meant that maybe she could get out of this dream and be safe, y'know?
The Queen meant that she should be resting because she seemed very... hyper vigilant, anxious, scared, and ready to attack someone... which different than how she was earlier..
When Queen met up with noelle again in the snowgrave route, she probably was talking to herself and asking "the voice" if she should freeze "her" but "the voice" would not answer, because she was not with Kris anymore.... or maybe she was... mumbling about the people she already froze and calling herself a terrible person... or trying to convince herself that none of this was real... Queen was just suggesting what any mother would probably suggest in such a situation. She might've attempted to comfort her before she slept, telling her everything was gonna be alright and that she didn't have to do anything anymore.
@@royaloreo1275
Well, she does have few faces where she's not smiling.
A thought I had when you suggested the Snowgrave Route could be the "Gaster" route: Toby Fox has insisted that Deltarune only has one ending, but what if the second route never reaches that ending?
In Undertale, Sans' final attack is trapping you in the battle, and specifically his turn, forever. It didn't work, but think about what would have happened if it did: the Underground would be permanently locked in a state where Frisk and Chara are unable to act, with a trail of destruction left behind them, but all of the monsters that lived in/evacuated to New Home would be safe.
Life would go on for the monsters left alive, but from our perspective as the player, the game would never actually have an ending: you fight the final boss, but you never beat them, and you never get a chance to try again.
I think that the Snowgrave Route could have a similar ending, where Kris/the player gets trapped in a process that never ends, like a battle or a cutscene. There would be no "End of Chapter 7/8/9/n" screen; the only way to leave would be to close the game, and there would be no other choices for you to make upon reopening the game. The result of your poor choices throughout the game is a stalemate.
There's a popular theory that Deltarune is a cyclical world, trapped in a time loop, where the world ends and then starts over forever. If that's the case, and there's only one ending, then there might be three routes in the game.
The first, and the only one that would be called a proper ending, is the route where you escape the loop and take control of your own destiny. The system bending time into a donut is destroyed, and there's pie for all.
The second would be remaining in the loop, repeating the events of the game forever. You would reach the end of your adventure, only to do it again, and again, and again, for all time.
Finally, the third would be the stalemate I described: the world never loops, but progress is never made. You successfully stop time from repeating, but that's because you failed to conclude your journey. You got stuck along the way because of your terrible actions, and the world is paying the price for it by stalling forever.
Anyways, that's my crackpot theory/prediction, thanks for reading!
Imagine if the neutral route (Deltarune) will be the true route of the game
*the Player, Frisk, and Chara.
Or rather, just the Player/Frisk and Chara, since Frisk seemed to be more of an empty vessel than Kris is.
People keep forgetting that the Player started the genocide route.
Chara just made sure we finish it.
This is fascinating!!! I love how you wrote "the system bending time into a donut is destroyed, and there's pie for all" too. Such beautiful writing :')
To support this idea, one of Noelle's blog entries is about getting permanently softlocked in a game because she missed a character she was supposed to have -- the same entry also describes coming across a mysterious undocumented door that shouldn't exist. The connections to Berdly and Gaster are pretty obvious.
And more generally, Ralsei also describes the Roaring as an endless night that Lightners would be doomed to roam eternally, so...
Hell, anything is an ending if that's where you stop playing. That's some wisdom from the narrator of The Stanley Parable.
But, I would make the argument that Undertale is also in a time loop, because it's a video game. You give them everything they could have ever dreamed of, and then you take it away and wipe their memory just because you wanted to play again. That's sort of the lesson in Undertale, that's what the game is _really_ about. We all know that Undertale is really about far more than just the story that's being presented to you, after all. And so, I have no reason to believe that a time loop in Deltarune wouldn't be caused for the same reasons. I have no reason to believe that that wouldn't be the case for _every_ game.
It's a beautiful thing. Undertale is really a commentary about the dissonance between the viewer and the media. It changes the way you think entirely. Topics discussed in Undertale can be found in _everything_ else. Like the fact that, because death is a minor setback, it is impossible to lose. You've only lost when you've allowed it to beat you. That was Sans's goal, to make the game outrageously unfair to drive you away in the hopes that you'd never play the game again. Undertale is one of the few games I've ever seen that literally BEGS you to never play it again.
And the fact that the protagonist of _every_ game is really just my meat puppet. I ostensibly play a game to fight the bad guy, undo all their harm, and make sure they're never seen again, because I'm the good guy. But really, I play a game because I _want_ the bad guy to do his thing so I can enjoy beating him. We open windows to other universes just so we can abuse them for our own amusement. _I AM THE ONE WHO PULLS THE STRINGS AND MAKES THEM RING._ My point is that, time isn't a donut until _you've_ twisted it into one. Time will never move on for as long as you continue to play the game. It's all so simple, so obvious, and yet I would have never thought of any of it on my own.
D playing when Noelle "wakes up" might be Gaster getting upset in some way. Since W plays when he is interrupted by the other speaker, these songs may signify when we don't do what he wants.
If you name yourself after Kris, Susie or Noelle - Gaster responds and says "Youre about to meet someone very very wonderful"
There is a 'goner' that talks to you about Susie (in undertale). Afterwards, you can find a 'crude drawing of 3 smiling figures, with the words "Dont Forget" written on it' in sans's workshop behind his house.
and in the core, there are neon tubes on the walls all throughout. They are colored light blue, yellow and purple. These are the colors associated with Kris, Noelle and Susie
...I feel like Gaster, for some reason, genuinely cares about these 3 kids. If that's the case, I think Gaster might end up transcending time and space in order to kick us in the face when he finds out what we're doing in the weird route.
@@nezrafallon4086 Ahh interesting interpretation. I meant it as "leaving the weird route" being something he doesn't want us to do, but that's very possible too. Fun!
@@nezrafallon4086 when you think about it like that, gaster is kinda like another player
he gets attached to the characters and mad when you do something bad to them
also resetting if you name yourself gaster, no one else should be able to do that except maybe another player
@@sholamakinde430that’s a weird one
I like it
@@imarandomsella. oh my god
gaster is a player who inserted himself into the game
when he was scattered into pieces he was actually just playing a different game or deleted undertale
Until it is disproven, I have chosen to believe that there are 7 total chapters, an intermission after the third, two chapter-chapters of chapter five, a second intermission afterwards, and in chapter six, six chapter-chapters, and six more chapter-chapter-chapters. Not to mention chapter six's five intermissions, six intermission-intermissions, and chapter six chapter six's five additional intermissions.
True!!
Chapter 7 will, of course, be delayed until seven years after the release of chapter 1.
@@crystallineAurora ...I mean, that's only two years off.
can't wait for trickster mode
Is this a Homestuck reference?
Reading the word "chapter" so many times in this sentence made the word seem strange to me
Since Chapter 3 could take place during night, its possible that 3 & 4 happen in the same day, meaning that Chapter 8 would be the logical final chapter
Edit: Look, I don't wanna be that guy, but HOLY CRAP I HAVE NEVER GOTTEN THIS MANY LIKES BEFORE
You mean ch2 and 3.
@@insertnamehere1398 I think they meant 3 & 4 because someone's been making fountains in the mornings but chapter 2 ended with Kris making a fountain at night, which means there could be 2 fountains in the span of 1 day.
Alternatively, we'll miss the morning fountain because we'll be in a dark world at the time, someone else will deal with it while we're not around to see, & the consequences will unfold with no initial input from us. Maybe Noelle will deal with it & Berdly will help her if he's alive but if he's not, she'll go off the rails & kill an entire world while we're not around to stop her.
@@D_YellowMadness i mostly agree with this, except for the last part. WE are the ones manipulating and controlling noelle in the snowgrave route. she doesnt want to do it. if noelle were to go into a dark world alone, she wouldnt "go off the rails and kill an entire world while we're not around to stop her", because we are the ones actively causing it in the first place. if we were there on a snowgrave route, we would be the cause of her doing it again.
@@D_YellowMadness but that also means that someone else other than Kris, could be making the dark fountains. Which means Kris is mimicking the actions of the Knight for some reason and is not the original
@@woobgamer5210 TRUE.
I did want to give one small correction: when Toby said that "these numbers can be somewhat deceptive" at 0:44, he almost certainly was referring to the completion percentages, not the chapter numbers. Elsewhere in the quote he talks about how he tends to change his mind about certain details late in development, so it can be hard for him to estimate how close to being finished any given aspect of a work in progress is. Other than that, though, another fantastic video as always!
That last sentence about the possibility that the 7 melodies are supposed to be played at the same time reminds me a lot of the Mother series. Specifically how the first 2 games have you collect 8 melodies that are supposed to be played in order. Considering how much inspiration Undertale and Deltarune take from those games it wouldn’t surprise me if combining them yielded something interesting (just that the way they’re combined would would be different).
It'd be neat if Kris' piano music is the 8 melodies combined & that's why it sounds so chaotic.
Mother 4 end credits theme confirmed: 24 Melodies
@@arloklenczon6811 that’s a really good one! Maybe we’ll see hear it Winter 2024
tl:dr; you can listen to Circus and Dialtone together (if speed is adjusted) and that works, so this has a good chance of working too
This is almost definitely the case for Circus (the song that plays outside of Jevil's door) and Dialtone (the song that plays in Spamton's shop).
By messing with the speed, both songs line up perfectly. I would link a video of that here, but 1. I'm lazy and 2. there's a chance links are blocked - it's not too hard to find, though.
Since both play before secret bosses, we can assume that the next 5 (or 6) secret bosses will also have a "prelude" track which can be added on to make a complete song.
So not only is the notion that putting together the 7 melodies to spell "wdgaster" makes a song possible because of Earthbound, there's precedent for it.
Polyphony at that scale is extremely difficult. I wonder if Toby has the genius of Thomas Tallis on his side...
There's also the possibility that these single-digit songs are hints towards the "secret routes" in each storyline. That would require further chapters before a conclusion could be reached. But if it's right, then that would imply that the moment the other entity claimed control from Gaster, they began the "alternate route" for Chapter 1. Which makes sense; it's pretty easy to assume that Gaster's plans were muddied by this other entity claiming control...
it seems like this entity that interrupted gaster beginning their "secret route" is trying to spell his name even tho the game doesn't allowed to, breaking from the path further and further each chapter.
that would imply that you start the "secret route" right before the berdly fight, ignoring everything that happens since noelle joins your party.
that could mean that kris was being controlled by another entity and his "alternate route" started way before the player starts to control him, but honestly i would just wait until more chapters release lol
@darker8484 Well, more accurately, the implications is either that the noise plays at the "point of decision" in the route - the Berdly fight is the last chance to abort the route - or that it simply plays at *some point* during each alternate route to mark that as the anomaly. But yes, as I said and you confirmed, this would take further chapters to strengthen. As of now, it's just me spitballing.
@@amf3118 My thought exactly.
@@amf3118 I also wanted to say that it's interesting that the letters "w" and "d" are both in lower case! As if it's not gaster telling us these letters, but someone else trying to warn us(?) or reveal(?) to us his name for some reason, just like what you're saying!!
Both one-letter songs appear at a point where control over another is lost, W for when the hijack happens and D for when Noelle breaks out of her trance. Not much to add to that, but it's worth noting.
Deltarune theorists are insane like they’ll see “w” in the files” and “d” next and it’s immediately gaster
I love it
im actually hoping so hard that the next letter is just "h"
@@rarecrom why- wait h is the letter after g
Dark World - D W - DingsWing Gaster, twin brother of WingDings Gaster
WDH?
*ah yes i love why do have*
@@rarecrom it stands for what da hell
The Twisted Sword is ONLY accessible by aborting the snowgrave route at the point of Waking Noelle, and since thats (assuming) connected with the Gaster letters, and the Twisted Sword seems to have an ability to LOWER Trance... Which judging from Noelle gives control over her... And that the Twisted Sword can only be equiped by Kris... We would be lowering Kris' susceptibility to control... ... This is most likely the way to another Ending or something like that. Another way to push the story off the rails
It could be that you can get it back in a completed snowgrave route in future chapters, but I do hope the only way is to abort a snowgrave route because it's more interesting.
Gosh, right? Since I found out about the twisted sword a part of me has been like: is there a THIRD route? Most everyone else overlooks this cause they assume we could “get the thorn ring later on if Noelle rejoins our party” but. . . What if we can’t? What if that IS the third route?
What really strikes me about it, too, is how “unsatisfying” it is. (Paralleling how boring/tedious most of the Genocide route in UT is??)The route “goes back to normal” and our horrific actions are never really brought up again. Hijinks re-ensue and the only real difference is we’ve “lost” some recruits. . . Could also tie into the three save files too. . Very, VERY interesting. . .
(PS: Another off the wall theory I have is that we might be able to unlock. . something. . if we successfully have 2 or 3 conflicting routes “ongoing.” Like if one save file was a “True Pacifist,” one a “Snowgrave” and maybe the final one a Neutral or “Gaster” route. . . Bonkers, but who knows? As Toby continues to tinker away on his masterpiece my brain just keeps on spinning).
@@rion2499 Yeah! And Noelle said that she will figure out what is wrong with Kris, so I really dont think Noelle will join our party again, unless something doesnt work out in Noelle's plan
Gonna add on that d.ogg uses the same rhythm as the Merry CD from Omori (which Toby composed) and if you know anything about Omori “waking up” is a pretty central game mechanic/theme
And also the protagonist have a knife in both games
jeff the killer is kris confirmed@@josecorzo5517
hey, dreaming is also a massive part of omori too, so there's more evidence that the d actually does stand for "dream"
d.ogg
dogg
dog
toby you-
The Merry CD also has a winter holiday season feel, which is interesting considering the Noelle of it all.
At the beginning of chapter 1, Toriel mentions that Asriels' coming back from college in a week, so I assumed that something would happen when he came back. However that wouldn't make sense if there was only seven chapters cause he would arrive by the eighth, so if there were more chapters that would explain that.
That assumes 1 day = 1 chapter, but with how things are for Ch3 there is implication it is happening at night.
So depending on how the chapters work it may still work.
Hmm, Toriel says "next week", so since it appears to be Thursday in chapter 1, it could be that even if chapters 3 and 4 take place in the same day, Asriel could still come home by chapter 7, right?
@@petruciosxd1374 if we assume so, that means that chapter 7 takes place on Tuesday.
@@CalvinNoire The potential for "just another Tuesday" jokes...
Randomly announcing that there will be 3 more chapters with the release of chapter 7 would be one of the subversions of all time
Or imagine if chapter 7 ends on some earthshattering moment, like the roaring has happened and everyone's like welp guess we die now, cut to black, credits roll, then "to be continued in chapter 8"
ahhhhhhh this would make me so excited and stressed ahahaha@@BaloonBoy7
what if you could scroll the menu
That's really interesting to think about- I have no idea if chapter 0 will be a thing, but personally, I really like the idea of there being seven chapters- like the seven days of the week. But Chapter 0 could still be a possibility if, like you said, a part of the ending would be related to restarting somehow...
The "w" and "d" songs do seem to build up to spelling W. D. Gaster, but I guess we'll see if that's true once more chapters will release.
I think a restart has already happened. When you reload, there is a sort of residue left over. Some characters like Toriel, Papyrus and Sans can tell when this has happened. They normally think its some sort of deja-vu
In deltarune, when you talk to Onion-san, he talks to you about the song from the sea. "it's not a new song, I feel like I already heard the whole thing... but I can't remember, ya hear? I can't remember.... I can't remember..."
An exact explanation of why I think is too long for a comment, but... I think the world of deltarune already took place. I do think that Gaster is the one who set events into motion, but began to care about Susie and her two new friends, at which point he tried to stop the end, but it was too late. They lost. I think a Player is controlling the knight, and there was no way to win against that opponent. Gaster, sans and a few others escaped to the world of Undertale, which is why sans is loaded up on weapons, battle tactics, and even psychological stuff and a hell of a lot of anger towards us, all to try and stop you. Along with other details, such as a goner who talks to you about how awesome susie is, which spawns a drawing in Sans's lab of "3 smiling figures, with the words 'dont forget' written on it", or Gaster saying "you're about to meet someone very very wonderful" after naming yourself after Kris, Noelle, or Susie. Even in the core, there's light fixtures throughout -- Neon tubes, colored light blue/yellow/purple (color associated with kris, noelle and susie).
And now, we're coming back for round 2. Gaster is using us as a tool to prevent the roaring. He did say to us: "I look forward to creating a new future with you" right before he sends us the Survey Program. Sure, the dude has all that satanic motifs going on... but when the enemy is 'heaven' (our reality) and the angels (the players), is that really a bad thing?
@@nezrafallon4086 That sounds interesting, though I personally don't agree with all of it- it's still interesting to think about what Gaster feels about the player, and also how exactly could the Gaster fun events in UT relate to DR's story.
Maybe the reason the chapter amount is so unclear is because player choices impact which chapters you can acess? Like maybe the story ends sooner under specific circumstances.
Just a small theory.
Toby did say there is only one ending though, and I have a feeling that is mostly true
@@marsgreekgod Having only one ending doesn't really place any constraints whatsoever on _when_ that ending is triggered in a playthough.
@@marsgreekgod but what if the actions you take can lead you to that ending sooner than intended? or longer even, like trying to delay the roaring
@@marsgreekgod there may only be one ending, but how fast it arrives may vary
@@marsgreekgod We dont really know what he defines as an "ending" here. He may mean there is one path the story takes (this cant really be the case in an absolute way as snowgrave has proven) or just one general way the game ends. Just like how all games fundamentally end with the player closing the game, he may not mean endings like they were in undertale. He could just be refering to some major event that always is the finish of the game.
If we get more themes like "w" and "d" in future chapters, I wonder what will happen if you mix all of them?
itll be gasters theme
Wd gaster
Maybe something like MOTHER's Eight Melodies?
@@cereal-rat well damn maybe
I wonder if the concept of "Wake" in that fight is that Noelle gets stronger if you can get her to go beyond the pale while she's more aware of her actions. Like by getting her to kill her friend when she's not in a trance. If that is the idea, what about when she's fully awake & aware? Like in the light world?
Will the full weird route involve getting her or someone else to kill someone in the light world where they can't ignore the consequences & their crimes will leave behind real evidence that other people can see? "Kill your mom, Noelle. She's holding you back. Making you weak."
"Kill Toriel, Asgore. Your codependence is making you weak."
"Kill Asgore, Toriel. He's cringe."
I think there would be more of a reason than Asgore being "Cringe", we just don't know what happened yet.
Asgore probably did [Hyperlink blocked] or had something to do with [Hyperlink blocked] and isn't as innocent as he seems here.
@@Knux5577 I don't know, man. I like him but did you see the egg incident in the grocery store? That was brutal.
As soon as it got to 8:15 I just knew what was gonna happen.
"W, and D"
About how w.ogg and d.ogg might mean 8 chapters, I think that there's just too many ways for it to not follow that pattern, since we really only have 2 data points. What stands out to me is the possibility the next one could just be gaster.ogg, to complete "W D Gaster", since his first names are always initialized. The idea about how it ties in with not being able to type in the R in Gaster is cool though, reminds me of the stuff with Doopliss in TTYD.
Related to how the letters might indicate the number of chapters, I thought you would mention more stuff about numbers in undertale and deltarune. Obviously 6, 66, 666, etc all have their satan and gaster connections, but 7 also appears as the number of human souls, the number of flowers in asgore's shop, and maybe could be tied to 17 since same last digit. 3 also comes up a fair bit, considering how the game is named DELTArune, you have 3 party members, 3 save slots, etc. As an Andrew Cunningham subscriber I am obligated to mention 3rd entity theory (although it would kinda suck if true i dont like it).
I think the point about how both songs show up at someone "waking up" is interesting, since there's just so many connections with the theme of sleep and dreams and waking up. "Hopes and Dreams", the way that going to bed transports you right to the dark world, all the talk about the dark world being like a "dream world" (and how deltarune might get really similar to omori), the way you put enemies to sleep to spare them and how jevil talks of "going to sleep for 100 years", all the nightmare talk, the neo body being "the embodiment of a Lightner's dream", and I guess even how darkness is associated with sleep because of night. Maybe it's even all tied how deltarune came from Toby's fever dream, although that would maybe mean that it would have been a lucid dream if he was aware that he was dreaming.
I think it would be a bit lame for it to straight up say gaster, but perhaps.
having the file name be 'gaster' is WAY too on the nose. toby would literally never do that
@@cloverlovania "It would be way too on the nose" Gaster's Theme is literally called "Gaster's Theme" in the Undertale sound test. A song in Deltarune being called gaster.ogg would not be on the nose at all given the precedence there.
@@paradoxicaloutcome1007 i could see gaster.ogg appearing in a later chapter but definitely not in like .... chapter 3 or something as this person is suggesting
@@cloverlovania The original comment doesn't say Chapter 3 anywhere. It just says "the next one". Maybe I'm just being charitable.
As far as that goes you're right, we're probably not getting gaster.ogg in Chapter 3, but it's definitely not out of the question for the next one to just be gaster.ogg.
Gaster could be wanting us to do a Thorn Ring route. That is get the Thorn Ring and then abandon the Weird route. That way we can get the Twisted Sword, which has a Trance Down effect. Which fits with the idea of waking. Maybe these songs will guide us down a secret route.
I came up with a crazy theory... but the song letters will be W D G A S T R.
We already have E, Ice E. I say this non-ironically. Thinking back to how Ice E's lair ties into describing what Deltarune feels like and how this world somehow represents the Goners from Undertale despite Gaster falling into the core in Undertale.
Everything with Deltarune is so off, from the mystery of Kris in the Bunker to the implications from the Apple Deflection and Whispering to Susie that Kris may have Reset before, even Dess going missing with potential for it to be in the Dark World.
Or not, who knows at this point?
I am worried once we get Chapters 3-5 that if we wait too long for the remaining chapters to be released we will solve the game.
Something tells me that, after all the Undertale theorizing, and how deep he KNOWS his fans dig into his code and game files, that he's already prepared for a scenario like that and will implement certain story twists that completely subvert anything we, as a community, could come up with.
Hell yeah! Love to see a whole vid dedicated to the hidden chapters in the code, especially from you! Thanks HBC
Kinda surprised I haven't heard anyone talking about how the eggs might just be a Chrono Trigger reference.
In Chrono Trigger, when you obtain the actual Chrono Trigger, it's also called the Time Egg and it's stated that "no one knows what will happen when or if it hatches. Maybe nothing, maybe something."
The place in Chrono Trigger where the Time Egg is used almost looks a bit similar to the rooms in DELTARUNE wherein you get the Chapter 1 Egg too, with a lone tree standing in the middle of an outstretched bit of land.
I've put some good thought into the question of "How Many Chapters Are Going To Be In Deltarune," and I can confidently say:
At Least 5
I wouldn't be surprised if when the full game releases it all gets subverted and there are no longer any chapters, it's just one mega chapter.
It's a stretch, but the W in the first song might have the same meaning as it does in WD Gaster, aka "Wing". It could theoretically be tied to the Angel's Wings.
That would make the next one "Ding" which seems... odd
there's also the theory that gaster is creating the universe of deltarune as a simulation, and on the snowgrave route, you are killing everyone, breaking everyone and your choices DO matter (opposite of non snowgrave, since fighting/sparing wont kill an enemy). His name appearing in letters might be a hint to the player, warning the player that gaster is trying to stop you from continuing this path, which does kinda make sense with w.ogg, considering that it plays after the 2nd narrator (in your case, chara) abrupting gaster from the gonermaker.
My thoughts are that Chapter 0 is probably going to be a flashback prologue that shows what happened to Des, why Toriel and Asgore split, etc. So it'll be very short and probably won't appear until late in the game.
As for chapters 8-10, either it's the "true" route that brings you to the ending, or these will be alternate versions of chapters brought on by doing the Snowgrave route. The changes brought on by Snowgrave may eventually snowball so much that new chapter scenarios are needed entirely.
I think there’s something to be said for the fact that d.ogg comes from Omori’s “Merry CD” made by Toby Fox. Itself being a Christmas themed song in the game with that connection to Noelle. Maybe w.ogg is Kris’ waking up and d.ogg is Noelle (or Dess’?) waking up?
It's interesting that the Wake action actually causes Noelle's magic to rise. You'd think by Wake-ing up she'd lower her magic as she's breaking free from the murder fueled powering trance but the opposite happens. Especially when Dark Worlds have the theme of dreams, then you'd really think Waking up would relate to getting weaker inside them. And then comes the fact you can only do it against fighting Berdly, a fight that getting a higher magic number doesn't really help you. The whole thing is just odd.
"Is this the theme of 'waking', or another motif for Gaster?" As always, my response to a dichotomy is "both" - Gaster is waking up.
Having more than 7 chapters would be a dream come true. Or maybe some chapters are only accessable in certain route(s)? We have no choice but to wait and see, I guess.
Hiding an entire Chapter behind a split path is very unlike Toby in the context of Deltarunes design. There is optional stuff, but that's more side jokes, additional dialogue and a secret boss at most.
Seeing how much time Toby spends on Chapters it's simply not worth the effort.
At this point it would look like Toby plans to keep developing this game for the rest of his life. Or i mean, until he gets old.
@@Disorder2312 I think Toby wants to do something else than Deltarune in his lifetime
@@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat You don't know if it's true or not, and what's more important is that it's irrelevant to my statement.
@@YatzeeWillWearAGreenHat Since you don't answer anymore, i just want to explain: I never argued what he wants or will do. I said what it would look like if Deltarune had more than 7 chapters. I don't have to explain this, just like you shouldn't ignore that part of my statement. Another confirmation that people only think about that part of the message they want, and that's the reason why they misunderstand everything.
3:00 Isnt it written in one of the status updates that he will release the game “with the price of the first five chapters”? Presumably that implies that we will buy the game when Chapters 3-5 come out (with a reduced price), and chapters 6 and 7 will then subsequently come out and will be available for free for the people who have already bought the game.
At least I think. Maybe I’m wrong here.
Finally, someone else is talking about how Snowgrave is connected to Gaster! I'm officially not the only one! I wrote a lengthy theory a couple months ago that talked about how w.ogg and d.ogg and flashback_excerpt.ogg inextricably tied Gaster to the Weird Route, but it didn't get much attention.
I'd like to hear your theory
Just use a text to speech and make it a vid, since no one likes reading nowadays.
@@anon4305 It's pretty simple, in hindsight, but I lumped it in with some other topics. Here's an incredibly brief summary:
The part that concerns Gaster is the fact that flashback_excerpt.ogg inarguably has Gaster's Theme as the most prominent leitmotif, and "w" and "d" can be seen as the first letters of his name, W.D. Gaster. In addition, since "d.ogg" is played before the Snowgrave Berdly fight, this ties Gaster to two Weird Route-exclusive tracks.
Gaster seems to be taking the role of some kind of scientist in the DR universe, conducting an experiment with the soul we control. He seems to be outerworldly, as indicated by his presence on Twitter. If we assume that the second voice in the Goner Maker is *not* Gaster, then that would create a convincing argument that Gaster only cares about you, or your soul, and *not* Kris. And as part of an experiment, particularly on creatures, you want to expose the subject to different types of stimuli to analyze their reactions.
One key point the game hammers into your skull is that your choices don't matter. And yet, we're able to force our way past that and cause the Weird Route. I'd like to raise a question, though: When we froze the first Virovirokun, *who made the choice?* It certainly wasn't Kris, they didn't do anything of their own accord. It could of course be us, but if our choices don't matter, then it logically follows that it shouldn't matter if we chose IceShock or not. Someone *else* made the choice, or at least aided you in making it.
I believe the Weird Route is Gaster subtly pulling the strings to give you a choice in the world, one which has actual, profound meaning. His actions, giving you a chance to truly end the life of a Darkner, has a ripple effect that lets you make Noelle, a character also tied to Gaster, strong enough to kill a real Lightner. And by the end of it all, right at the culmination of the chapter, his theme plays again, nearly unmodified from the original, to remind you that he's around.
HBC, I need to tell you, I personally have a difficult time deciphering TTS, but the minute I see you've uploaded I rush to the nearest quiet space so I can fully concentrate, and it's worth it every time 👀
i cant imagine gaster would be particularly mad about the snowgrave route
after all, its a survey program he wants to see what "answers" you choose
One idea I thought about from this video is what if each save file unlocks a different version of chapter 0? Like we know all of the worlds of each save file are slightly different, what if doing different routes in each one that break the game (i.e. One Snowgrave, One Thorn Ring Only, and One Egg Only for example but idk the scope of what's beyond Ch. 2) correlated to unlocking a secret chapter for each file? I could see toby making getting to Chapter 0 on each file like a different part of the puzzle, and the player has to complete all three weird routes to unlock the full ending of the game. It would add up with there being no coded data for anything beyond Ch. 7, and would make sense as to why they'd label them differently. That's just a guess though. Interesting topic! I can't believe that so many discoveries are still being made about these games 2 years after their current chapter releases. That WD thing kinda blew my mind, because I had no idea w.ogg was even a track, let alone that it paired thematically with d.ogg like that. Strangest sentence out of context. I just thought d.ogg was a dog joke ngl lmao
Something I'd like to mention as I've watched Andrew Cunningham's video MANY times is that the "Moderate" was not about having a moderate gaster reference, but being a moderate *case of brain rot in hearing gaster in it*
He did say it's possible but not plausible all things considered, however that also isn't a disprove of man = gaster
having more than the 7 makes sense. so far its been 1 per day, with an upcoming night chapter. but asriel comes home "in a week", so we need about 7 days including chapter one (so 8+ chapters), or to skip a day.
All remote security I ever had thinking I had a general concept of the basic structure and intention of this game were just promptly shattered.
I now am gonna end up completely paronoid about whether we can trust anything the game or Toby says about it, what is legit evidence and what is a distraction, how much is a genuine promise and how much is absolute gaslighting.
The game could be 2 demos and a single final one payment release and no chapters, or it could even be 11+ Chapters long, I have zero clue what to believe anymore, what is the normal route or what is the gaster route.
I have no safety in anything anymore, the entire game may very well be a series of false leads that end up as one of the most insane ARGs of a metanarrative ever told, and that just makes me thinking it's possible for the ending Toby had as a feaver dream back in 2012 to be along the sorts, because that's the only possibility that sounds as mindblowing and insane to me as he described his obsession with making the game a reality.
I have zero clue of what is even real anymore about this series, aside from the fact that SOMETHING connected to Gaster is related, but only Toby knows what, genuinely, he probably hasn't even let his own Team know in case of potential leaks.
Regardless, this video has made me more hyped and fearful for the potential insanity this game awaits, maybe all the patterns so far are real, maybe they're just to give us a false sense of security, maybe they're real and this details are to make us unsure, regardless, I am now more eager than ever to see where this madman takes us with the future of this game, as I now feel like I have a slight possibility of understanding options for how this man has seen FREEDOM himself, and is eager to shatter our minds the same way he has.
Regardless, if there ever was a contender for a piece of media to be a subversion of ITSELF? DELTARUNE is the prime suspect
I couldve sworn I remember Toby saying that he'll work on chapters 3-5, release them bundled, and then work on chapter 6 and 7.
Wait, what if when you get more of the single letter songs, you can combine all them into one song, and you get a new song? I tried combining w.ogg and d.ogg and it didn't sound like much yet, but maybe it will sound better when you combine ALL of them. Guess we gotta wait and see.
Oooh,another video! I do understand that burnout is a thing,and take any breaks you want,its just that I kinda missed the channel:)
I think Chapter 0 is very possible to be a real thing, because OFF has a Chapter 0 and Toby is a huge fan of OFF. Maybe not something selectable from a menu, but a story event.
yeah a chapter 0 might happen though i do think it's most likely placeholder code there. computers start counting from 0 so if he didn't have that, the code would reference chapter 1 as chapter 0 and chapter 7 as chapter 6, which isn't very readable.
so if chapter 0 happens as an off reference (good game btw) it'll likely be unrelated to that code.
Adding chapters beyond 7, when everyone things 7 is the last one seems JUST like a Toby Fox thing to do
I'm not sure if this is relevant or not, but in OMORI, Toby made a song called Merry CD, or Another Holliday, that contains a major leitmotif of the main melody of d.ogg. I feel like it could be argued both ways on weather this is relevant or not. On one hand, the song title is "Another Holliday" which not only links d.ogg to Noelle, but also possibly to Another Him. But on the other hand, its in a completely different game. Personally, I believe the former.
I think Chapter 8 is “R”
Let me explain;
As you established, each chapter likely represents each letter of “WDGASTER”
W 1
D 2
G 3
A 4
S 5
T 6
E 7
R ?
As we know, trying to type the “R” in “GASTER” takes us back to the very beginning so what if we take that literally?
This would mean Chapter 7 will loop us back around to Chapter 1, and we need to somehow break the loop.
Since typing “GASTER” is what causes us to restart, the only way to stop looping is to ensure we don’t spell “GASTER” in the first place….
Right?
I actually think it’s the opposite. I think we’re looping because we *can’t* spell “GASTER”.
Only when we successfully spell his name and get to the end of it can we put an end to everything. So until we figure out the clues laid out for us in each chapter to break the cycle can we finally stop looping back at letter “E” and get to “R”
Toby saying there will be “only 1 ending..?” likely alludes to the fact that looping back to the start isn’t an ending at all. After all, something that goes on forever can’t be said to have an end.
The obvious thing that leads to an ending? Breaking that infinite cycle, for good. So until we can find a way to Chapter 8, we can’t beat the loop. An obvious answer for what gets us to Chapter 8 would be the “weird” route, the one path where to don’t do things as intended and in an odd way, a way that seemingly goes off course from the usual, infinitely repeating path. Which may be a red herring, and perhaps we have to do the cycle each unique way to know how to truly break free. (Maybe a normal run in one save slot, weird in another, and a true run in the last? That’s a theory for another day though).
That's the best theory i have ever heard on this topic, ever!
0:09 honestly, that could describe almost all the open questions surrounding Undertale and or Deltarune
Yyyyyyyyeah.
Seeing another HalfBreadChaos upload fills me with DETERMINATION!
i like to think that gaster isn’t actually behind most of what we see in deltarune, and his main relevance is due to his death spreading him and his works all across space and time, leading to some of his entries and research ending up in the world of deltarune. i’m pretty sure that everyman (yes that guy) would have happened to find them before being exiled for researching “dark science” (the study of how dark worlds and fountains work, apparently something gaster was trying to tap into according to entry number 17). he then would try to seek recognition by becoming a children’s pizza mascot (ice-e, of course) but he soon realizes that people think he’s a freak. this causes him to snap, deciding to find people who care about him once and for all, opening dark fountains across the town in secret. (also i’m pretty sure that whatever is behind those red doors has something to do with it, considering the garbage noise.) all the darkeners consider him as the all powerful knight, while he doesn’t have a single clue what he’s even doing, hiding away to give out eggs (i mean he’s a bird so…) to anyone determined enough to seek him out.
ok i think i just typed way too much and kinda derailed the topic but yeah great video halfbread!
Gaster is literally the entity we "connect" with at the beginning of Chapter 1. In _specifically_ Chapter 1's save file menu, he also says some very odd things depending on what you do on that menu. We know this is him because his type speed and manner of speech is exactly the same as shown in "Entry #17", just in a normal alphanumeric font and without his signature, disjointed speech sounds. He also appears every time we die in Chapter 1 to offer us another try, or says the world is covered in darkness if we choose not to try again. In Chapter 2, he no longer appears every death, but he still appears and says the same thing if we choose not to continue after a death.
This is indisputably Gaster. I've noticed a lot of UT/DR fans these days love to try as hard as they can to distance Gaster from the lore with arguments like "He isn't actually canon", or "He was only a special event in UT, not meant to be taken seriously.", despite _direct references to him and Deltarune_ being added to the Switch port of UT just a couple of weeks prior to the Chapter 1 shadow drop.
Gaster absolutely, definitely has some form of major control or oversight of our journey in Deltarune, and will be a major entity that determines what this game is even about. Him secretly being Ice-E and going insane, while pretty funny, isn't the kind of vibe I think Toby's going for with the character. I feel that, if we ever get anything comical or funny with Gaster, it'll be LATE game, if at all. Personally, I think he'll only be used in a serious context, keeping the sillier side of the game separate from anything directly tied to him, aside from maybe the way characters like Jevil and Spamton act, which is both funny and disturbing. He's definitely involved with whatever affected them, too.
I'm not sure what you meant by the Everyman stuff, or Gaster being a bird, though. He's probably not a bird.
So, the reason chapter 0 likely even exists is because coding starts at 0 for most forms of code
0, 1, 2, 3 instead of 1, 2, 3 for example
But, what if its there for a different reason? Chapter 0 being the start of a timeloop to get the actual ending that isn't an advanced game over. OR chapter 0 being gaster judging you after you do everything exactly right to get to his, room or whatever and he does, something maybe just calls you evil and puts you in a box you can't leave as a form of after credits scene
gaster puts us in gay baby jail......
Gaster is someone who is the reason of everything in undertale/deltarune fandom.
I do think there might be a false ending that will end the story at chapter 7, and will force us to restart, since my best guess chapter 8 will have us meet asriel, and he’ll be important to get the actual ending, given the chain of events, so as such we may get our battle with the knight in chapter 7.
maybe if you layer all the single letter tracks (once they're all out) they'll create gaster's deltarune theme
it being called the weird route instead of genocide or something like that could mean that this isnt supposed to happen and if you mix around the letters in snowgrave it gives you wrong save
I just thought of something- the game stresses pretty heavily that We are NOT Kris. They’re separate. What does it mean that the intro voice specifically says “Your name is Kris”?
It kinda depends on who we think the intro voice is. My money is on Kris, so "Your name is Kris" is literally just Kris themself telling them that we are now in control of them. After all, while we are not Kris, no one else in this world is aware of that, so in a way our name is basically Kris.
I was very very tempted to point out... the voice says "your name is...." and then we wake to hear Toriel say "Kris." But that doesn't necessarily mean that's how the voice was going to complete that sentence.
I just realized that spamton would actually be a corrupted ad or a scam one. Cause he says hyperlinked blocked meaning he’s trying to sell something but it got blocked ( see in so dmart)
On the note of "d.ogg", something interesting I found is that when sped up, it seems to use filtered versions of the bass guitar and drums that are used only in Megalovania, of all songs. Very interesting...
I don't need to watch the video to know if it's good or not, but I'll watch it because it's good.
It's preparing us for the true final boss, W.D. Ice-E
Why is deltarune so complex??? It’s fun to deep dive but I wanna know stuff, I wanna have answers
It's basicly a puzzle for which we only have 2 pieces and are not even sure there are more than said on the box.
It isn't that it is complex, we are trying to get late game information when we aren't even 1/3rd of the way through the game.
...Chapter 0 could be considered the opening sequence before Chapter 1, in which case, we didn't get W in chapter one, we got W in chapter 0, skipped chapter 1, got D in Chapter 2.
0-2-4-6-8-10-12-14
W D G A S T E R.
If we assume that the weird route spins off into two different chapters, (Chapters 3/4 perhaps?), with Chapter 5 bringing things back together, then 6/7 could be the opposite, with 6 being the weird and 7 being the normal, 8 being a convergence, then 9 and 10 being the split with 10 being weird. It'd be a strange pattern, but it would make sense, keep with the theming of 7 total days and allow the entirety of Gaster's name to be spelled.
maybe the chapters yet to release are the friends we made a long the way
I thought it was obvious that it was the Gaster route...
He seems willing to break the fate of the world ending at ANY cost...
HBC posted again!
Bro this dude just cant stop finding secrets in this game
Excellent brainrot and incredible editing as always. Very nice!
I'm in this video at 5:00!!! Thank you hbc 😊
8:54 if we end up getting 10 chapters after all, the final 2 letters could be D and R again.
Leaving us with “Dr. WD Gaster”
WOOOOOOOO HALFBREAD UPLOAD!!!!!! LETS GO!!!!!
Chapter 0 existing makes some sense as Kris already had a save file in the beggining
2:44
Uh, no. The effect is applied to the whole image. You can put whatever you want there, and it will just work.
Guy half bread is not dead
Not sure what to make of this. I've always made the assumption that Gaster cuts off players who engage in snowgrave route for obvious reasons. He did work for the betterment of monster kind before falling into his creation and I assumed nothing changed from this. Maybe he's more morally dubious than we thought in the same way Alphys is?
Oh damn, if the D is for dream, that would have another implication.
When queen talks about Noelle during the weird route, she says that she must go onto a "deeper dream" since she has grown too powerful. As if she was already dreaming.
These theories are the best and most bizarre ive ever heard, and yet they make all the sense, the animation is great, and i cant wait for the next one,
THIS CHANNEL IS,
VERY
VERY
INTERESTING.
My theory has always been that there is no chance that the game keeps following the chapter formula. 3, 4, and 5 will all happen like normal, then chapter 6 happens and proceeds as normal until the end where everything gets messed up (like Undertale's neutral route). Toby would be free to use those intro files for whatever, like randomly throw the player into chapter 9 where everything doesn't make sense and you missed part of the story, or reset the game to chapter 0 or even a chapter that has already been played but its different in some way.
It’s funny that if one tries to talk about deltarune lore/features at all, one can always fall down a massive rabbit hole.
I swear every time i think i have deltarune figured out something like this shows up and now im starting from scratch
bro started with a question of how many chapters deltarune have, and finished with an theory about wd gaster resets the whole deltarune universe in the final
Chaotic Bread!!!!
I think the Chapter 1 image is very likely to be used in the future, I just don't see how a Chapter 1 rework is not going to happen when they have almost all if not actually all the internal data listings(like enemy IDs with related data and the entire textscript) copied over unused in the chapter 2-related files. They pretty clearly only integrated the old Chapter 1-files because doing that was more convenient for the early release.
Another possibility is that Chapter 7 will have the song named R with the letters then spelling W D GASTR.
7:44 actually, i think the d means wd
because in chapter one, its called w..combine w and d and you get wd, gaster's name is wd. gaster
there may be at least 9 chapters but the next 2 are hidden if the songs are gonna spell out wd. gaster
or even 10 if you count the ., but i also think the other chapters may be a placeholder...but why would he make more than one? also, the wd gaster thing i explained does line up with there being 9-10 chapters
edit: wait, i might agree with @NoTrueShape
the chapters might be sub chapters..and as a reply in that comment said, maybe its a snowgrave exclusive? or maybe alternate route exclusive (aka doing the alt route every chapter if there is more alt routes)
edit 2: oops i counted wrong and hbo actually noticed the gaster thing..oh well
The quote at the end about all 7 melodies being played together is very reminiscent of Earthbound where to save the world you need to play the eight melodies once again hinting at an 8th chapter but otherwise maybe being just a coll reference.
HEY BREAD
Yoooo, I'd love to see a Gaster boss theme with all the single letter melodies
Since you brought up Andrew Cunningham's video about Gaster's theme, it reminded me of the conclusion he drew that the Noelle and Gaster have some sort of connection, since their motifs are similar. Since "d.ogg" plays during a scene with Noelle, and "w.ogg" plays after the character creation, I'm starting to think that Dess is the one who interrupted the character creation.
I think it makes a lot of sense for her character to do so anyway. If the character creation had gone as intended, then we'd be playing as the vessel instead of Kris. But what would have happened to Kris? The vessel would have taken their place, and no one would would realize. Dess was trying to save Kris from ending up in the void with her, because they were friends.
If there's a chapter 0 its not gonna be a real chapter, more likely telling us something that happened before chapter 1 after some big reveal. Ive seen it done before
70.2k subs rn
Holy cungadero!!!
Well done to Brix and you for noticing and thinking about how those two "single-letter" music file names could fit together! If future Chapters have Weird Routes too, perhaps there will be a certain combination of Normal and Weird Routes though the Chapters that results in all of the "single-letter" tracks playing, and that results in something special.
your videos are prime example of what happens when a single question takes you down the dark forest of infinite knowledge
Yippie! New video!
Please rest well now :]
yana cameo!!!
@@bryce27827 real :googer:
@@bryce27827 bryce cameo
Hey halfbread, d.ogg seems to be a remix of a song toby fox made for omori, the merry cd, which strengthens it's connection to Noelle I'd say. I'd give it a listen there's a UA-cam vid comparing them, could toby have been leaving clues in omori considering his friendship with omocat?