What The Four Shadows Foreshadow
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- Опубліковано 24 чер 2024
- The Dark Bulb Puzzles in the Queen's Mansion claim to "cast shadows" instead of light, but are these shadows something more? What if they secretly hint about the "dark" parts of the character's lives?
Also holy crap did I just make a 27 minute video in almost exactly 2 weeks? Madness!
0:00 Intro
2:29 Disclaimers
3:14 Bluebird
5:00 Purple House
9:41 Yellow Fire
11:43 Green Hat?
13:48 Green Sea?
19:15 What Shape is the Orange One?
20:14 Who is the Orange One Meant For?
21:12 Wait... is this character Orange?
23:49 What does this imply?
25:31 Darker Yet Darker
26:33 Outro
The Daryl Talks Games Video on the Timestamp I mentioned: • Noelle’s Actions In De...
Pinholes when You Lose Your Glasses: www.offgridweb.com/survival/p...
Toby's Tweet with the Orange Cat: www.trendsmap.com/twitter/twe...
No Chocolate's Post Back When We Were Debating Kris's Eyes in the First Dark World: nochocolate.tumblr.com/post/1...
The Definition of Vermillion: johnthemathguy.blogspot.com/20...
What Color is This: www.ginifab.com/feeds/pms/col...
My Patreon for [KROMER] / halfbreadchaos - Ігри
Okay so the video is "up" but I'm still adding Chapters and fixing the Subtitles (since youtube tends to butcher the timings) so nobody panic!
Some quick FAQ stuff
Q: Why are you calling them Shadows? I thought they were Lights, like from Spotlights?
A: The sign for the first puzzle reads: "These Darkbulbs cast a Bright Shadow on the ground."
Sorry about that, I meant to include that in the video but sometimes I stay with a theory for so long I certain details for granted, and then just assume everyone knows them already. Oopsie doopsie!
Q: I just thought it was just Homestuck
A: Listen friend, I was there in the beginning, when it was just John Egbert in his room trying not to get pied in the face by his dad. I remember having my mind blown the day Andrew released the Piano Animation and suddenly Sound in our Webcomics was on the table. This is to say, I was a big fan of Homestuck.
I'd say it's definitely 'calling back' to Homestuck, but it's not an obvious 1:1. It's the wrong number of shadows, the colors of the shadows don't match the objects in an 'obvious' way, that is to say if you show your casual Homestuck fan those shadows, they won't be able to easily or quickly match the colors with the objects, so as a reference it's not an 'obvious' parallel.
That doesn't mean Homestuck shouldn't be considered, already I'm seeing some interesting discussion around the Orange Knight of Time, unfolding below. I'm pretty excited to see what other theories spawn from that.
What I'm saying is, don't let "It's a Homestuck Reference" be a thought terminating statement, because it could be more fuel for the theory fire, or you could choose to ignore it entirely, since Toby has stated he wants his games to be *able* to stand alone without requiring the audience be familiar with other media.
(He does still make a ton of fun references though, I'd love to list all the ones I've found sometime).
Q: Wait what is that meme character at 23:20?
A: Toby posted about a Weird Dream he had on Twitter last night: twitter.com/tobyfox/status/1504963403865288704
Q: If that was last night how the heck did you get that in there so fast?
A: I actually 'made' a different meme character and animated it jumping at the screen, but I liked Toby's better and as long as I just switched the faces, I didn't have to reanimate/re-sync anything in the video to add it in, so I promise that didn't cause the delay.
Q: If not that, then why the delay?
A: Probably trying to make a 27 minute video in two weeks, oops! Shorter videos HBC! You are ONE PERSON.
Can you imagine if I hadn't split up the Don't Forget video? That was originally 4 paragraphs of this video before I realized what was about to happen.
Q: You misgendered Kris!
A: Dang it! I am so bad at pronouns. I used "they" every other time but I accidentally said "his brother" somewhere in there. Oops.
Q: And Seam!
A: Gosh DARN it. I am so sorry Seam fans, they're one of my favorite characters and yet it *keeps happening*
Q: What is that reference at 9:00?
A: That's Psychonauts. The quality is fuzzy because apparently cutscene graphics didn't update with the rest of the game. I did my best though.
Q: Why is Bill Cipher-
A: That's my Mouse Pointer
Q: Pronouns?
A: They/Them
Q: Where is the Bonus Content? I really want to see it!
A: There's actually quite a lot for this one, and I'm still tweaking everything, so uh, it'll be on Patreon within a week or two.
OK
K
haven't watched yet but banger video g'job mate
Thanks for actually putting good subtitles, it’s really helpful when I have “hearing episodes”
@@dudemcduder1628 *you think about how you still haven't finished making sure the subtitles are accurate and properly timed
*you feel your sins crawling on your back
Susie is most likely not homeless, if you walk around the town with Susie most houses are fine to her, but one specific house gets Susie nervous and she asks "Kris, weren't we going to your house?"
Yeah,she most likely just doesn't have a stable house and doesn't want Kris to see how it is
Which one?
@@oranphillips6940 There's like a row of the same houses to the east of the town I think, it's where snowy and monster kid are
@@Anonymous-ow9kr wait that's her house!
@@oranphillips6940 I said "most likely" meaning it's not confirmed
kris+berdly: hiding their mediocrity
susie: hiding her home life and insecurity
noelle: hiding her magic
ralsei: hiding his identity
papyrus: hiding
Lmao
(No response...)
(... but the distant trousle of bones)
Orange in Undertale is the color of bravery and courage. I would also say the boot could symbolize the same thing in like an adventure sense. With Papyrus in the Deltarune world seemingly being the complete opposite personality to his Undertale counterpart (him being a shut in that needs babysitting opposed to being super energetic while always trying to improve and make friends). It might be up to the player and the party to get him to come out of his shell in some way. So yeah hiding.
what if the shapes of the shadows are the fears and the colors represent something lacking about the caracters
With Noelle I think it's that she is hiding that she wished she had magic so she could heal her father so she isn't alone with her mother at home
But It could still be possible that magic is real in deltarune just like in Undertale and magic is still how monsters exprece their self both to me make sense personally but the mystery of Dess has something to do with the color ( I hope I'm explaining myself right sorry if not )
This theory that I made is absolutely batshit insane and probably not even thought up by Toby, but...
The duck-like shape in the light that's supposed to resemble Berdly's backstory could be a subtle reference to the ugly duckling, which also fits the description of a story about a bird being accepted by their peers.
It's not really insane, because it's a famous story that could be referenced
@@davity9000 Right, but there's the possibility, even if not likely considering toby often knowing what they're doing with plot connections, that it could be a coincidence
Does that mean it could also be Kris's shape too? You can see that Kris seems to not be accepted very much, or they don't feel like they fit in, because they're a human and get bad grades. They're only seen for who their brother is.
@@mayo_nnais3 That's actually a really good point
the ugly duckling _is_ about being rejecter by your peers before your true potential is revealed and you turn out to be something _more_ than them.... which could apply to both berdly (being forgettable, before receiving the title of 'smart one' and turning it into some kind of inferiority/superiority complex if i understand correctly) and kris (because the ugly duckling's issue is about being a different species, like kris. and kris's 'advantage' would be the dark worlds, perhaps.)
all in all, it's an interesting idea
I think the parallel between Susie's potentially dysfunctional home life and her idolising of Kris' home life is very telling, since technically Kris' home life is also 'dysfunctional' due to divorce, but its seems like paradise compared to what she's used to. The theme of home and comparison and contrast between the potentially dysfunctional side and the seems ideal but is also secretly dysfunctional side is interesting.
The yellow shadow seems to represent the sun more than it does fire in general to me. While it doesn't make a big difference, it should be noted that the sun does have a few associations with Christmas. Moreover, the sun is a star, and stars definitely have a ton of associations with Christmas.
In fact, think of the two most common things that go on the very top of Christmas trees: stars...and angels.
I also thought of a sun when I saw the yellow shadow. An angel though? That gave me chills. These kinds of things fill me with some kind of energy that's both nervous and excited.
@@Greatwolfpearl123 When Noelle mentioned growing angel wings when talking to Susie I had to do a double take. Angels just can't stop coming up when it comes to Noelle.
@@Majoraspersona It’s just crazy, I wonder what it means…
im sticking with the magic though.
Not to mention connection between christmas and solistice
An interesting thing about Noelle’s Ice Powers. When a monster is frozen solid it doesn’t fade, it just stays put in a solid form…it doesn’t move…it doesn’t leave.
Noelle’s Ice Powers might stem from the fact that she doesn’t want anyone to leave her. Dess seems to be absent, her father is sick and might even die…Noelle probably feels incredibly alone. (Heck she’s probably internalized this as something humiliating which is why she’s into Susie’s rough and demeaning nature).
It would be kinda creepy/intrusive to find out "why" characters have a sexuality. I really hope Toby doesn't add a "and this is why Noelle is into girls and BDSM" flashback. That would read like some kind of lesbian fantasy written by a dude. Even if we do find out why, I hope its subtle.
@@Benzinilinguine Oh I'm certain this is just a "Fridge Realization" (Get it? Fridge? Cold?) sort of deal.
Something that's implied through characterization, and never actually shown
@@Benzinilinguine That wouldn't be explaining why she's gay. It'd be explaining why she's into Susie specifically. If she were straight, she'd probably be into a guy who's rough & demeaning.
@D YellowMadness Yeah, that comment just sounds like it was made in bad faith. How is Noelle being into girls your takeaway from all that?
She also doesn't seem to have a great relationship with her mother, either. And there's also likely some bad blood between her mother and father, too. It's implied/said (I can't remember which rn) that Noelle's mother is the current mayor, which the old mayor was Asgore. Which, less than savoury means could of been used to get that mayor role,,(I'd have to go looking for the main evidence again, super sorry-) Noelle's dad is friends with Asgore, and Noelle herself is friends with Kris, so there's uh
A lot of tension in the Holiday family-
20:21 yeah i still think its crazy that the fandom made sans pink slippers canon
Two things! A) I think, if Ralsei's IS a Partial Hat, it could represent how we only have a partial understanding of him. We only have a part of the image, because we only know one side of Ralsei
B) The fire for Noelle could represent her Father's Illness! Very often, Fever, and illness are represented with fire imagery, as they cause your body to 'Burn up'
That's some interesting *FOUR SHADOWING*
Please kill me.
*in Ralsei's voice*
Sorry, but i'm a pacifist 😊
sorry but the gun emoji is a watergun now
@@thatkerimguy
fill it with lava
You know what, I bet you just accidentally snatched this joke straight from Future Toby's mouth. In fact this actually gives me significantly more reason to believe these are foreshadowing just because that's the kind of joke he would make
Goddammit Toby you did it again! I keep loving this guy with his wordplay lol
Regarding orange, the only time we see it with significance to canon is whenever Ralsei tells the legends in the beginning of Chapter 1 and the end of Chapter 2's normal route. Could orange be referencing the roaring? We also see that the orange shape could be smoke, similar to that of the smoke whenever Kris opens the fountain in Chapter 2. Kris, while their main color is blue, has orange accents. Their sword and shield are orange, and in the overworld they have orangeish-yellowish skin. This could point to Kris being the knight, but we still have 5 chapters to go so this could be completely incorrect.
i doubt kris is the knight for many reasons, but i do like the idea of the orange representing the roaring
Orange is also the complete opposite of blue, literally the farthest away on the color wheel. It's interesting that Kris' turns to opposite colors in the Light/Dark Worlds, especially so since all of the monster characters don't go through such changes.
@@Majoraspersona Asriel is white, and Ralsei with his hat on is black.
Interestingly Toby actually has sorta confirmed that Kris *isn't* the Knight. He spoke about a track, saying the vibe of it gave him visions of Kris and the others rushing towards the Knight, who, if I recall correctly, stands at the top of a flight of stairs and turns to smirk at them.
Kris is donald trump confirmed
There's something I've noticed about deltarune, and it's that only certain characters have chat box sprites. Specifically about the kids in Kris's class. Obviously, Kris, Suzie, Berdly, and Noelle have chat box sprites, but there are also Catti and Jockington, both of which do have chat box sprites. But the other kids in the class don't. I think this implies that either Catti or Jockington (or both perhaps) will join the others. My bets are more on Catti, but I do also think that Jockington is absolutely a possibility and might be the green rather than ralsei. We all know Berdly kind of started out as a sorta joke character and became very serious, so maybe history will repeat itself???
Catti and Jockington are definitely going to join the party, yeah. They already have somewhat established relationships with Kris, Susie, and Noelle, as well as with each other, and they could simply have a color scheme change in the Dark World so as to not overlap with the others. As for their party roles, my bets are on Catti being a support character in a different way from Ralsei, perhaps applying buffs and debuffs, and Jockington being either high-attack or high-defense.
woah. i dint suspect this but it would be really cool to get new characters that we're considered to be just background characters
Rudy also has a chat box sprite, so it could be assumed that he‘ll eventually have an even more major role. Maybe the hospital becomes a dark world?
You'd think at least monster teen would have a sprite now, but no
They are most likely to be important in later chapters
4:25 It's actually kind of weird that the trophies ralsei puts into kris' room is an exact mirror of the ones in asriel's room, it could just be toby reusing sprites but I kind of doubt it considering that they've been recolored to match the lighting of the room.
its also a lot easier to recolor a sprite than to make entirely new ones
@@evervirescentnot if youre considering lighting, at that point just make it different
@@Rodrigo-kq3js tru
@@Rodrigo-kq3js but it's not exactly a sprite change, if you look at what pixels are what colors, you can tell it's simply a mirror and a palette swap.
@@Rodrigo-kq3js it doesnt seem that hard to just trace over the sprite with new colours, like it would probably only take a few minutes at most
I always thought they represented what they struggle against/with
Birdly, himself and his own impossible standards. Seriously has major 'gifted kid' syndrome.
Susie, a safe place or people to call home and to feel safe in. She lacks that stability which is likely why she acts out to express that instability outwardly.
Noel, power and opposite forces, things that go against her 'grain' as it were. Fire melts ice, she stuggles with dealing with something stronger than her.
Kris, the players presence. Being under their 'boot' and having their autonomy suppressed.
Ralsie, the overwhelming nature of responsibility or just general being overwhelmed. Like a tsunami wave overwhelming a town
I really like this idea!
Interesting
Maybe Kris's is having their entire existence suppressed or overshadowed by his brother, who has done so much and won so many awards, while their shelves lay barren of any form of achievements
tHat mAkES tOt aL C://"Sense"
This actually makes a lot of sense, I think you’re onto the right ideas.
18:15 If dark worlds are escapist fantasies, and the roaring is the world being consumed by dark worlds, then by transitivity the roaring is the world being consumed by escapist fantasies. If your right about characters feeling the call of the dark worlds as something offering to assuage their lonliness, its definitely foreshadowing for what the roaring might look like on the light world side of things. Furthermore, when I first heard the Papyrus is the knight theory, I thought it was ridiculous because I can't see Papyrus being involved in anything sinister, but wanting to help people overcome their lonliness is definitely a motive that might get Papyrus to act as the knight, especially considering his poor judgement and naivete. Plus, we all know that Toby loves a sympathetic antagonist with altruistic motives.
Papyrus will be a Killable and a major monster MUCH later. Sans probably knows about the dark worlds.
i read that as “something offering to sausage their lonliness”
@Anonymous User Papyrus does fight and try to capture you in Undertale. He could have a bit more resolve in this game. I'm not saying its the most likely explanation, in fact I suspect the knight will be an entirely new character, but it doesn't sound as ridiculous to me as it used to.
People tend to forget that papyrus got all the gang to come meet at the barrier in undertales true pacifist ending. he was part of that sinister plan of floweys. He can do evil if he dosent know its evil.
@Anonymous User And the king respected the Knight, now the king can be dumb and goofy but i dont think he would be stupid enough to not see that the Knight is only doing someone else's bidding and still respect him
You know, I actually speculated that Kris threw their red horns into the ocean when they got tired of them. (Way to go littering, Kris...)
As for the tea theory, I think people really underestimate how much HP Ralsei Tea gives Kris. I mean, Kris has only known Ralsei for a few days, and while they weren't on great terms with Susie, they really like Susie, as revealed in several dialogues. And Noelle was their old friend. Of course they'll get more HP from their tea. They just don't know Ralsei quite as well. Just because they didn't take an instant and immovable liking to Ralsei doesn't mean they dislike him.
yeah, reading this made me actually change my mind on this. It'd be interesting if the tea actually heals Kris more in later chapters if time goes on, or if it decreases. That will definitely help solve this!
It'd make more sense if Ralsei Tea didn't heal 120HP to Susie too, someone who's known Ralsei for about as long as Kris has.
50HP seems to be the threshold for indifference (see Noelle Tea on Ralsei), while 120HP seems to be the threshold for friendships (I hesitate to say *close* friendships, since everyone that heals 120HP from the other person's tea has only known them for at most two days).
So Kris only healing 60HP from Ralsei Tea implies they're bordering on being indifferent about him. Not exactly the *secret hatred* some people exaggerate it into being, but clearly something about Ralsei prevents Kris from opening up to him.
Its stupid, but in regards to Tea Theory, I like to think its because Ralsei Tea when drunk by Kris has some of Ralsei's fur stuck in it. Wouldn't explain why it heals the others more, unless its based on the expectation of the drinker. Perhaps Kris fixates on Ralsei being fuzzy, whereas everyone else may draw attention to him being a soft and warm personality (and a healer no less) because, being monsters, thats kinda within the norm for them; to Kris, Ralsei might be a walking cotton ball in the shape of his brother.
Just a biased slapstick take as a Ralsei enjoyer tho.
eh, 70 is still the second least amount that can be given by tea. the least being ralsei and noelle who literally don't know eachother. Kris and Susie have known eachother for not too much longer and Susie literally just threatened to EAT THEIR FACE the day prior so no, Kris doesn't like Ralsei very much. They don't hate him but clearly whatever Ralsei is telling Kris when we're not around Kris isn't a fan of.
The ralsei red horn theory is something I would agree 50% on, it's really interesting and makes sense-ish but also a little confusing and ridiculous
I just checked the Bluebird (animal) wikipedia page, and at the very bottom there's something very intersting: "In traditional Iroquois cosmology, the call of the bluebird is believed to ward off the icy power of Sawiskera, also referred to as Flint, the spirit of the winter. Its call caused Sawiskera to flee in fear and the ice to recede"
That's so so so specific and it fits so well, Bluebird is strong against the Spirit of Winter, like Noelle? Or even her mum ?
Is Berdly secretly OP?
Or it's just a hint that she'll never like him like he likes her.
Perhaps it could be foreshadowing for some kind of Berdly the Defrosted, but it's just wishful thinking.
@@runedoom Did you not actually play the game? As he very clearly explains, Berdly doesn't have and never had any romantic feelings for Noelle and only sees her as a friend, he was under the impression that _she_ had a crush on _him._
And Noelle clearly likes Berdly, just as a friend.
That theory is interesting, since Berdly is the one to stand up to us and try to save Noelle. It fails spectacularly, but he definitely still tries.
well, i noticed the bird shadow is smiling, and berdly is always smiling until you learn more about him, maybe it means like a fake smile, until you eventually become friends with him, where he eventually shows an actual, genuine smile? idk im just guessing here.
And about the house one being related to susie, maybe the reason she doesn't show us her house is because she feels more at home with kris, ralsei, and lancer, with her friends, than she does at her actual house. After all, there is a saying, *"Home is where the heart is"...*
Or maybe the four different shadows are representative of the ingredients needed to make Berdly smile again. The house could refer to his home life as well rather than Susie's since he is seemingly often evaluated by his grades and how good he is on the spelling bee rather than other qualities. He's very selfconcious because of that and maybe that's why he has a scouter in the DW (in order to measure the "power" of the other characters to see, if they're better than him. His selfworth kinda depends on it, I think. Probably his parents play a big role in that part of his personality.
Other than that, the yellow shadow is probably the sun which represents freedom in DR (as seen in Spamton's shop). It's something Berdly is yearning for.
He can reach it by escaping into a dark world which is represented by a wave (green shadow). Dark worlds and oceans share a strong connection after all.
The last part, which is essential to Berdly's happiness is the player who is controlling Kris and opressing them (hence the boot). Only when Kris creates fountains is Berdly able to escape and find happiness.
The Grand Fountain has supposedly existed "for millennia". But... it's just in a closet? In a school? I don't know about you, but to me it seems a little unlikely that the supply closet has existed for millennia.
So what if the original dark world is deep in the ocean? It's pretty much the oldest thing on earth. It's deep, and dark. Now this isn't a _good_ theory, but it's wormed its way into my head now.
It would make much more sense if the school was built _above_ wherever it is that the Grand Fountain pulls from, than for the school to BE where the Grand Fountain pulls from. Perhaps the land hometown is built on used to be an ocean; perhaps there's an aquifer downstairs that connects to the ocean. When you first fall, you hear Ocean.ogg, as you mentioned, and the, uh... "life" down there certainly resembles the bizarre lifeforms you'd find in the deep ocean in my opinion. Onionsan only heard _part_ of a song. A song they've heard the full version of coming from the ocean. I don't know about you, but to me, Don't Forget seems like only a small part of a song too. I get the feeling the full version will play at the end of Chapter 7 and everyone playing the game will immediately bawl their eyes out.
@BILL L It comes from the prophecy when it is mentioned that the balance between the light and dark world has been happening for millennia.
I'd say the Bunker makes more sense with what we currently know especially since from information we have Kris was visibly disturbed from it... much like how seeing the Closet World alongside Susie visibly disturbed Kris.
Especially since I believe bunkers would sometimes connect to schools.
It would be a place under all of town in perpetual darkness as no one visits it. It would also fill out the contrary information in Ralsei's story and with the supply closet being a dark world and explain the "Roaring" and other things. Ralsei being a prince with all this information but meeting no one ever seems to be a rather odd situation.
A deserted bunker with something left in it given form. Nothing else in it.
@@auramaster2068 That might be referencing that they were both trying to get a foothold in reality, which is why they try and destroy the dark fountains (besides the main one, where everyone can live). Who knows, maybe the last 2 chapters will be trying to find Light Fountains, and stomping them out
I think it's like the idea of "last thursday-ism". The Dark World was created very recently, but its inhabitants were created with memories going back further than that. After all, Spamton also mentions 1997, even though he had only existed for one day.
@@kevinm5940 I definitely agree with you, however I'm not sure if Spamton is a viable example to give. Spamton, as well as Jevil, both embody something very real in their fantasy worlds; Spamton represents spam mail/ads, which even though he hasn't been around for that long, he might have the memories of them.
Not only that, but Susie seems to care with Lancer on a compassionate level, like she understands what he goes through.
As for the orange, I messed around with colors in my image editing software and found that pink and yellow create orange (as long as yellow is on the top layer). This sounds trivial, but pink and yellow is the exact color of Spamton's glasses.
Also why in the name of Thundersnail would Spamton's eyes be pink and yellow? That's such an oddly specific design choice, and it's how Spamton NEO was introduced in pacifist. The screen cut to black and then pink and yellow eyes flashed on screen. BUT WHY THOUGH TOBY WHY
i think the pink and yellow are just random. spamton neo is introduced with them cos they’re recognisable and enforce that the black silhouette is spamton. this mixing the colours is likely a coincidence
the layering of the colours shouldn't matter. if it does then you're mixing the colours in a weird way
The yellow shadow for Noelle might in fact represent a "sun" instead of a flame. As seen with spamton's whole deal, the sun (and "light" in general) is oftentimes associated with the concept of Heaven, aka Freedom. Spamton and Noelle have a seriously strange amount of connections with eachother, with Noelle saying that she finds spamton's dealmakers familiar if you try and equip them to her in the games code iirc, and him calling her "angel" on the weird route. There's also the fact that Noelle is heavily associated with angel imagery in other places across the game (see her wanting to grow wings and fly away in the dark world, the angel figure she made in youth group that's in her father's hospital room, and the arguable interpretation that she fulfills undertale's angel of death prophecy in the snowgrave route). Personally I feel the yellow shadow is rather a sun, and represents Noelle wanting to obtain heaven, or a freedom she cant have with the life she currently has with a very controlling mother.
You could also apply the yellow sun to spamton, but I'd be hesitant to do so as he isn't a main cast member. (If one does choose to do so, the parallels between him and Noelle only continue to grow, with the NEO body looking like an angel with its wings clipped) However, *Jevil* of all characters seems to have a strange connection to Susie and is also purple, so maybe each secret boss could also correspond colorwise to another shadow? Jevil is trapped in card castle, and the shadow could be interpreted as a sort of tower...
yeah and jevil looks like a sleep deprived clown, and susie mentions not getting any sleep
Look at what's in the background of Spamton's shop at 27:12
That is a yellow sun up there.
As an addendum to your second paragraph, what if the secret bosses, apart from relating to Kris in terms of a lack of control, also served as a reflection of another party member?
You already mentioned a bunch of connections between Spamton and Noelle, but I wanted to point out some additional connections between Susie and Jevil. Something Susie in Chapter 1 and Jevil have in common is their disregard to rules and restrictions, leading to them causing chaos in the process. However, whereas Susie eventually came to realise the consequence of her actions on others, Jevil always insists he's in the right and that everything is just a game.
The bosses could represent the party members if they were to go down a bad route, with Noelle's equivalent being power-hungry and hopelessly trying to get into Heaven and become a God, and Susie's equivalent reigning chaos on anyone around them with little empathy for their wellbeing.
Spamton also calls her Hochi Mama
@@mmgmagic Jevil's weapon if you beat him with violence is also for Susie only...
Right when you said "The bosses could represent the party members if they were to go down a bad route" maybe that's actually the right thing to do. because it just doesn't matter, if it's all gonna get reset. After all the secret bosses (are atleast very theorized) to know the "Truth"
How Jevil gets closer to Susie when you beat him "Violence" (Devilsknife ONLY for Susie) aka what "Susie was already doing" (Beating everyone with violence)
How Spamton gets closer to Noelle with the WeirdRoute which is again... Violence (Most likely becoming god which makes more sense). Except this time unlike Susie is the Opposite of what she was aiming for and it just started with panics (Accidently freezing some of the Wire People) and also in the (I'm just gonna call it) "The Pacifist" route where Noelle doesn't show anymore violence Spamton drops a weapon for Ralsei when beaten with violence instead of the Weapon for Noelle (ThornRing) (Although you actually "buy" the ThornRing instead but that's kinda how Spamton just does it instead of just straight up giving it to you I guess)
Finally, someone understands the fifth one is a boot.
EDIT: Could you guys just look at the replies before replying the SAME thing over and over and over and OVER again??
i thought it was obvious
I also thought so
same thoughts here.
That was the only thing i saw it as prior to watching the vid
People thought it wasn't a boot?
susie coming from a broken home hurts personally because oh my GOD I’ve been there. i couldn’t piece together why I felt so strongly towards her but. it’s official even if that isn’t her backstory she’s my favourite
The way her aggression subsides for Lancer and Kris's home suggests that her behavior is armor that she can only remove when she feels especially safe. And the fact that she's so awkward about it shows how rarely she gets to feel that way.
(I'm actually expecting Susie will become the most straightforwardly heroic character in the story. Despite her (pretty weak) attempts to hide it, she's extremely touched by the kindness of others, and it's not hard for me to imagine her deciding that that kindness is something worth fighting for (with extreme violence).)
I'd like to mention that there's a possibility that because Susie entered the first Dark World before Kris, Lancer and his relationship with his dad could represent her home life and her struggles. The Dark Worlds have this Persona 3 Dungeon-like quality to them, so I think it's possible.
I'm surprised no one tried to link the color of the souls and the traits with them to the shadows.
Yellow as Justice
Purple as perseverance
Orange as Bravery
Blue as Integrity or Patience
Green as Kindness
I've thought maybe they are, but I can't figure out the connections between the shapes and the SOUL traits.
Ralsei is kind to us
Kris is pretty freaking patient if you ask me
Perseverance might have something to do with Susie idk
Others idk
I think it relates to who they are and what they stand for regarding the struggles (shapes) idk how this would be for berdly, but I see it in the wave for ralsei, noelle wanting justice for the fire or the massacre she (could have) caused, susie persevering and being the way she is in her home to persevere a safe environment, and idk for the orange
Probably because it's been stated multiple times, with some evidence to back it up that there is no correlation between the games
So that's probably why most people aren't going to try bring connections like these together
Also, Deltarune is, older than Undertale; so if anything, it should be the other way around.
@@anothername2557 I didn't see Noelle's shape as a fire, I saw it as a mass of tentacles.
Which might hint at the dark underside to her powers, and how she struggles to contain them.
Tea theory doesn't seem to actually imply that Kris dislikes Ralsei at all, since the default seems to be 10 hp, it also seems like the tea is more about the strength of their relationship rather than how much they like someone.
But isn't the Ralsei tea worth like 50 hp? Kris and Ralsei are friends and spend the majority of the time alone because susie isn't around in chapter 1, but then why would Ralsei tea heal them a measly 50 when Susie tea heals them 120 hp despite being separated from them in chapter 1 for a while, and she *was* pretty mean and rough as well.
@@allysonruiz3271 there may be many reasons, Kris might be uncomfortable with how similar to Asriel Ralsei is, or maybe Kris just feels a little suspicious about Ralsei.
It's probably something where Kris likes Ralsei but something about Ralsei makes them uncomfortable.
@@r00b27 the part where ralsei becoming less… nice after chapter 2 like he show his face through the chapter 2 but haven’t yet cover his face, don’t you think it but odd because when ralsei show his true face, he hide it but at chapter 2 he just… act like it normal? (I know time skip fast in darkness world)
i don't think kris dislikes ralsei, but they prolly only tolerate him since ofc as seen with the tea theory. tho if anything, i do suspect that kris might actually feel more uncomfortable around ralsei in ch2 than in ch1, because of many reasons: ralsei looking exactly like their brother; him knowing about the layout of their school for some reason; him acting more and more sus throughout ch2 by not just having a huge personality change in a day, but also kept pushing kris (the player) to hug him.
ralsei tea healing 60hp for kris is pretty bad, considering noelle gets 50hp from ralsei and they're complete strangers. i also don't really think it signifies the strength of their actual relationship, or else there wouldnt be such a huge gap between kris tea's healing for ralsei (120) and vice versa (60) unless ralsei convinced himself otherwise. hell, noelle healed a wholeass 400hp from susie tea, that should be enough proof of how the tea works (the 10hp is only for drinking their own tea so it doesn't count)
@@khuehoang6631 but doesn’t asgore also love tea?
About the orange boot, orange can also be Dess. The guitar she's associated with is orange/red with orange strings. As for the shape, I guess that if she really is the voice in the code/the one who sings "don't forget" and something Gastery happened to her, you could say she got "kicked out" of the physical world/light world/spacetime itself. Just dropping my thoughts a year late.
I absolutely agree. In fact, I think this is just as likely as Papyrus, if not more so. Even though Gaster plays a huge role in Deltarune, I'm a bit skeptical that the skeletons will have an equal role as Susie, Ralsie, or Noelle. But who knows, maybe Deltarune will give Papyrus just as much importance as Undertale did Sans. Either way though, we'll probably get more clues as to who the shadow alludes to in the next chapter or two.
8:07 I don't know why, but the first time I saw Susie act like this made me chuckle a bit.
i still think the detail about them being "dark bulbs that cast a bright shadow on the ground" is weird
as well as that part in chapter one where lancer and susie are getting a "reverse tan"
also reminds me how scarlet forest and the field of hopes and dreams both have inverted colours (if you invert them they look like normal greenery)
is this theme of inverted light like, meaningful or relevant in some way
most likely is important to how the dark worlds function. before entering one, we see them emit darkness in the way something would emit light. and that one entry 17 line? "PHOTON READINGS NEGATIVE."
@@lunaJAMv9 OH YEAH. THE PHOTON READINGS NEGATIVE LINE. does this mean they aren't just absent, but actually inverted into negative light ??
And while Kris's dark world sprite isn't a 1:1 color inversion of their light world one, inverting the colors of a photo of a humab face results in a blue color... Hmm...
Dammit. Typo in my comment, and the mobile UA-cam site doesn't have an edit button
@@eliminmax OH YEAH RIGHT
I saw a boot in the fifth shadow too, but I also saw a cloud
Something related to the Angel's Heaven, perhaps?
Noelle is briefly Orange in Silhouette when Berdly tells his tragic backstory, so that's possible.
I believe there was also some evidence that proves Asgore has some ties with Dess"s "disappearance". In post-chapter 1, you can go to the police station to learn Asgore use to be chief officer, only to be let go after "an incident". Though not directly confirmed Asgore was associated with Dess's disappearance, its a good guess considering his relationship with Noelle's mother and Toriel, and his history with kids in Undertale. What exactly happened is still unclear, but Asgore seems to definitely have some part in Dess's disappearance, whether or not the game tells us.
Calling it now. Asgore ran over Dess with his truck.
Asgore owns a truck. Deer freeze in headlights. The Holidays' gate is right in front of the Dreemurs' driveway. Case closed, Your Honor.
p.s. pretty sure you're thinking of post-chapter 2, since the police station is locked in post-chapter 1.
@@dat_fast_boi so what you are saying is... Dess was Isekai'd by Asgore
Maybe Asgore was just the scapeGOAT lol
I don't personally think Susie was scared of Toriel, I think she was nervous BECAUSE Toriel was her teacher and made such a good impression on her. After all Kris and Susie are in the same year, so it's likely they went to kindergarten together. Susie also directly says Kris "has a good mother" when we have our first encounter with her in chapter one. And kid's in rough environments often look up to their teachers in place of the parental figure they may be lacking. (As a kid who was neglected I can personally attest to that that. I had some teachers who meant the world to me.)
Also Toriel in undertale vanished and Asgore was the figurehead that everyone revered. So in deltarune now Toriel is the dreemur respected fugure head, and Asgore seems like the shut in disgraced dad.
If, while walking home, you interact with one of the doors on an apartment, it says something like ‘I thought you were taking Kris home, Susie!”
Good catch, that appears to be where Snowy lives, and where Snowy and Monsterkid spend much of their after-school time. So it's inconclusive if Susie also lives in that area or not.
A few comments from throughout the video:
-Toriel seems to teach young kids based on her classroom, so she probably taught Susie many years ago. The two probably havent seen each other since, so it makes sense that Susie's surprised Toriel remembers her name. I still think her behavior around Toriel is influenced by her own home life/perception of parents though.
-When Susie and Lancer are telling Berdly it's ok to be stupid, she says something like "Its like when your sister dies in Dragon Blazers 3." To me it sounds like shes speaking from experience, so maybe she has a sister? So what I'm thinking is, the reason shes so touched by Ralsei making a room for her is because she has to share a room at home, while this is her own separate space away from her family. So I'm of the opinion that she and her sibling(s) have a rough home life, generally chaotic and unstable. This also lines up with how the King probably symbolizes her father the same way Queen symbolizes Noelle's mother.
-if we think about dark fountains, the word fountain implies the darkness is sort of liquid-like. So maybe the green wave is like a wave of darkness? The Roaring even?? Ralsei causes the Roaring?? It's a stretch but maybe worth mentioning
All in all though, great video! Never would've thought the shapes mean something but I can see it now lol
The 'it's okay to be stupid' scene has Susie say "it's like when your sister gets cursed", and that could refer to either her own sister (Suzy?) or the MC's sister (A lot of RPGs are singleplayer, and the sister is referred to as a party member)
@@accuratejaney8140 Which fits in with some off Dess' ribbons being found in the Dark World. (Likely Dess' due to Noelle's reaction of them.) Especially since someone just going missing and never found...
With a Dark World existing... kinda suspicious.
On the topic of Susie’s family, I’ve noticed that, while Susie’s species never appears in Undertale, the shape of her head happens to bear a striking resemblance to those of the dummies. If the species has gone through whatever would make them ideal to model dummies off of in Undertale, then who knows what their history in Deltarune was like?
20:02 no, i see it too. I was actually just about to go in the comments and say "No, it's actually a boot."
I didn’t know they were Shadows instead of Lights, which made me think about something:
What if the Shadows represent the opposite of a corresponding character? Susie is homeless, an orphan, or in a bad domestic situation - the opposite of that is a home in all cases. Noelle doesn’t use Fire Magic, but instead uses Ice Magic. Berdly presents himself as a happy, proud bird, when he’s actually insecure about his forgettableness and has to act smart all the time to remedy that.
No idea for the green or orange things though. Anyways these videos are awesome and I hope to see more amazing videos in the future with overanalyzing things (always a fun thing to do)!
Tried seeing the comment above? Think the boot represents that
That's just exactly what the video said...
I always saw the fire as a mass of tentacles, symbolizing something so deeply hidden, so deeply repressed about Noelle, that not even the puzzle wants to shed light on it.
She can cast a spell she insists she doesn't know, and she does have an exceptionally strong aptitude for magic...
@@sneezewax3567 The video thought about the fact that the shadows could be the things the characters try to hide.
This guy is thinking if the shadows were the opposites of the characters.
Knowing how much of a master Toby is at foreshadowing, this has to be something, there is no way Toby put something this random and non-related to the surroundings without it being foreshadowing or a secret meaning related to the area
I mean after all, he had one obscure big shot line in chapter one, from an obscure npc that you had to talk to twice.
@@Turbulation1 ?
@@josemariaramirez3596 Catty’s dad mentioned big shot in a line back during chapter 1’s epilogue, when talking about Asriel.
Remember the wrong number Song?
A goofy Person wanted to call a mister g... Spamton confirmed 2015 fun Events Change my mind xD
@@Turbulation1 I have yet to figure out what's up with Catty's dad. Not just "big shot," but also he calls Azzy "Doug" and "Douglas." Seriously, who is he talking about?
It's also weird that Catty's dad is missing his right arm, just like Spade King.
26:03 I wonder if Papyrus made the cyber world despite the evidence for Ms.Boon being the Knight because of his connections to cars?
I can imagine toby fox writing in his scripts and notes small details about the characters that most people usually ignore and considering that its already a hard thing to make a game like deltarune it is amazing how he can come up with this. You also did a great job analysing
Noelle also confuses Fireshock, a move in the game she plays with her dad, with Iceshock... or something like that. Ice/fire duality. Though imho this shaped looks more like a stylized sun than anything.
Nice to see a fellow Psychonauts enjoyer, btw. And oh, the Susie part of the video... poor girl.
One thing about ralsie blushing when touching Kris’s soul, it might be that Toby just reused the hit box from the overworld’s bullet sections as the trigger for ralsie to begin the blushing animation, so the fact that ralsie blushes when only touching Kris’s soul might be because of coding and not for story purposes.
Fair point, but Ralsei and Susie both have hit-boxes that can interact with other objects most notably Pipis (and Kris does too, or your hit-box would be SOUL sized and you could squeeze through small spaces). so he still made a choice to only have Ralsei blush with Kris and only with the SOUL.
@@HalfBreadChaos hey thanks for responding! It is interesting why Toby choose the soul hit box and not the regular collision hit box, but we will never know why until the full game I guess. Still fun to try and theorize though!
@@scoutt9041 maybe because it's the soul is smaller so it makes it seem like Kris is getting really close to ralsei instead of just standing next to him?
@@TheRealSuperKirby in the words of both Ralsei and Flowey, the SOUL is "the very culmination of your being." So touching a SOUL is like, literally, touching a person's real soul. It's as close to the person as you can possibly get. The lonely prince probably wants exactly that, and it makes him blush because he's never experienced such closeness before.
I would like to point out that while Susie and Ralsei are both depicted in the chapter 1 explanation of the legend of three heroes, the human lightner is the only one EVER depicted as orange at any points (both when darkners and lightners have cracks through them in chapter 1 and during the explanation of the roaring in chapter 2). The only exception to this being the darkner when they're shown cracking during the first explanation (which is a silhouette looking a lot like Lancer)
This could obviously just be because the human is an easy representation of lightners since there most likely are no human darkners, but the boot could also make a lot of sense for Kris as a character. We as the player are making Kris walk whatever path we want them to, whether that be the path of pacifism or genocide, even if Kris as a character doesn't agree with the choices they're being forced to participate in. Since the beginning they've been told to chose which path they want and if we're taking it a step further, we as the player are also basically walking in their shoes, experiencing their life against their own will.
This not only makes sense but also ties the lights back to each of the main cast (Kris, Susie, Ralsei, Noelle, and Berdly) both by color and by symbolism. Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.
I definitely have a feeling that Susie isn't homeless, but more neglected at home. during the scene where she walks back to the road before Toriel invites her in, she walks very slowly, like she's hesitating and hoping for Kris to maybe invite her in himself. she puts on the rough attitude as she was always told "no." at home, never allowed to eat anything of value. she most likely doesn't get noticed at home. which is why she's surprised anytime someone shows her affection. at the end of school, she probably sits in alleyways. even if it's raining or snowing, eating trash in the dumpster or anything that is big enough to chew on.
For Noelle, the "fire" icon could also stand for magic besides the weird route, as that is what the magic icon is represented as, since Noelle wants to learn healing magic outside of the Dark World, but the whole weird route and the magic destroying the first bit of the Dark World is amazing.
isn't that what they say in the video
@@maple... yeah he mentions the magic but he doesn't mention the scene w/I believe Catty who mentions that part, at least from what I heard
I'm so impressed with the way these videos are edited! Such high quality content, we are blessed! I've been hoping someone covering Undertale/Deltarune theories like you would pop up for years :D
I'd like to note that in the Normal Route, which is the only one we see the light puzzle in, Noelle uses a fire attack in Dragon Blazers when she’s with her dad, which could be a link you missed in your initial analysis. Again, assuming that’s fire. Otherwise I’ve got nothing.
1:34 seems like an angry parent when their child did something wrong.. besides the glowing eye
*Smells like foreshadowing
The theory about Papyrus actually makes a ton of sense, and I feel that maybe Papyrus is being manipulated by someone or something (maybe the same entity singing the song from the sea) to do these things? Papyrus canonically is not evil in any way, but is easy to manipulate.
Canonically in Undertale. Given a different life and different experiences, it's possible he's not the Papyrus we've come to know. I can absolutely see Toby playing on that to let our guards down around him. He'll act like the Papyrus we know when we meet him. But he won't be. What kind of trauma would cause Papyrus to act that way though...
@@tobyharris4777 oh god no this makes sense, if the trauma might also cause him to stay at home. I hope Toby doesn’t go for this but your theory would make a lot of sense
random but if deltarune is a alternative universe and gaster was shattered all over the multiverse or reality, would it be that all other gasters exploded or that his pieces can be found in deltarune?
Also my opinion but it would be even more depressing if he wasn't insane, but manipulated to the point its real as air to him, and there's just no way but to execute him because there's no changing his mind and just having to kill the poor guy
Imagine you find out pap is making the fountains, ask him why, and he says “Let’s just say a little flower told me to.”
It wouldn’t really happen, but if it did that would be hilarious.
Points I wanted to make: I can’t help but see the four symbols as Homestuck (a project Toby worked on) inspired, they’re kind of like God Tier symbols or just the artstyle in general; Bluebirds rose to become a symbol of hope after they one against odds after a time were they went near extinct; I remember a line where Lancer said dads are banned and Susie being like “sounds great”, I don’t think she has a good relationship with her father
Yeah same, maybe I just spent way too much time analyzing homestuck for years, but as soon as I saw the house that’s the first thing that came to mind. Even though it’s completely different from the Sburb house. The sun/fire shadow does remind me of the Light aspect too
I'M SO GLAD IT WASN'T JUST ME
We all in the same boat 😩
7 chapters 7 acts
@@respectable-username
Does this mean that Deltarune Chapter 6 will be longer than half of the entire game?
@@davisdf3064 yes 😈
The idea of Ralsei being some kind of Dark World siren is giving me both the best and worst possible feeling. ‘Cause like he’s my comfort baby, but also I love to cry over my favorite characters, sooooo-
On the subject of Toriel and Asgore in relation to Susie and her home…
I’d say the difference in expression is key here. Toriel badmouths asgore more than she shows any actual fear, but Susie ACTS afraid. Toriel is in conflict with Asgore, she feels safe and equal to him, enough to talk about and even stand up to him. Susie defaults to submission. She’s used to not feeling safe or equal to those around her.
For the "Is Papyrus orange or red" debate, I think it's important to note that while Papyrus is associated with orange, it's less that he uses orange magic or whatever, and more that people THINK he does which. Is a very common thing in his character in Undertale if I remember right (the thinking he's something he's not, not the orange magic). Idk if this really makes sense but yeah
If I remember right, another part of the reason was because the other soul colors went very well with the other bosses. There were mixes of course, as sans technically has multiple colors swirling in his eye, and we never fight alphys, but generally we could place a soul's trait to each of the characters
Papyrus was orange because he was so brave. He was scared of us in no mercy run, but he still came up to us because he believed we could be better. He is just generally a brave person, who could also be seen as green for kindness.
Like how most people agree Undyne is most likely Yellow for justice, even if she has great Red determination.
Sans is yellow, yes, but he is mostly chosen for dark blue, Intengrity. Which is kinda funny because his eye actually glows Cyan, Patience, which he shows a lot of. He just wants, no matter what you do, until you reach the judgment hall. He is the most patient person in the world
I actually haven't heard of a color for alphys, bur I could see it being Purple simply because the Purple soul was seen as for those who were smart, and Alphys does persever often. Besides, the others, except maybe Bravery, don't really fit her.
She persevers when we genocide by getting everyone in a safe location. She perservers even when her subject start turning into good from determination. She's not very determined at all, and won't continue down a path until she reaches the end just because she is determined to, but she might persever and reach there anyways, simply because she needs to.
So far we have Papyrus orange/bravery.
Sans dark blue/integrity(although it could be light blue or yellow)
Undyne as Yellow/justice
And Alphys as Purple/Perseverance
It's pretty obvious that, as we go along this, Goat mom, or Toriel would most likely be kindness, being the only being that doesn't attack us outright, and only fights us to make sure we wouldn't die out there
Whenever i see or hear new theories about Deltarune, i'm always almost shaking in anticipation because i'm like : "Whenever the next chapters come out i think everything will go from 0 to 100000000 very fast". Both in the sense of hype and in the sense of the overarching narrative becoming clearer.
I really like your interpretations, you're dedicated in your research and i love seeing what you've discovered. The video was really cool, and i feel like you're getting better and better with the presentation, especially on the last two videos.
I feel like I will lose tons of potential theories because chapters 3-5 will be released at once with no space in-between for theories.
@@Gnidel All of Deltarune chapter endings so far had people at the edge of their seats tellijg theories to each other with the pieces of information they currently have. If merely two beginning parts of the story was capable of creating this everlasting echo chamber, I have high hopes for chapter 4-5’s endgame.
I’m suddenly wondering if Susie’s parent is the purple weirdo we see around town. Not necessarily an abusive parent but a neglectful one. She doesn’t call because he wouldn’t be there. While it IS possible that King was representative of her parent I do feel like he was more like Susie herself, the darkness she needed to overcome to be her best self just as Noelle had to overcome an overbearing mother figure.
6:49
Damn, I really hate how hard this one hit home. Amazing video as always tho
U good bro?
@@kingkaydengaming2786 Yeah, I'll be ok. Didn't think anyone would ever find this comment. Thank you
@@stardestroyer81 👍keep rockin on brother
16:21 I've just realized how much potential a dark world in the cemetery has, becuse the... hum... the corpse could potentially transform into who they were ? (kinda ?it feels a little weird to say it like that 😶) and it would be an opportunity to reveal a lot of things about them, notably with Gerson, as he apparently could link the worlds of undertale and deltarune together in his dreams, but he, that's kind of just me hyping on nothing
Gerson in Undertale knew about player's inability to attack shopkeepers. He definitely knew much, much more.
@@Gnidel That's right ! I didn't think about that !
@@Gnidel it gets even more interesting when you think about it. Gerson and Asgore, I believe, fought together in the war between humans and monsters. And Asgore is unsurprised when we tell him he's killed us- like he knows SAVEs and resets exist.
How much do they both know? And more importantly: how did they find out?
@@chrissysonicutdrloz time? they were both very old
Imagine that happens and Shyren, one of the dogs, Snowdrake or Alvin get to that dark world
I think Noelle's symbol represents magic as a whole, like the fireball in every magic menu. She does seem to have the strongest magic out of everyone so far.
Trouble? More for BONETROUSble! *Badum, tissss* 24:38
Monster Kid seems like an important classmate with lots of lines and they seem to be rocking massive boots and are more orange than papyrus
One interesting thing I think I'm noticing about the shadows, for the main 4s shadows (Kris, Susie, Ralsei and Noelle's), each of them are facing left, or at least have their "back" side towards the right (the back being the side with the flat edges for the corner), however the orange shadow, whoever it be for, is facing right/has it's corner facing left, putting it at immediate opposites to the other four, so having the boot represent an antagonistic character I think makes sense with that context.
Also, might just be me, but I'd be 100% down to see a Genocide Route Papyrus, not sure why but I just think that'd be awesome.
Considering the only way I can imagine UT Pap doing Geno is something like Disbelief, the idea of Pap doing a Weird Route is... unsettling, but also somehow makes sense, if he thinks he's doing it to help someone.
"There are no skeletons in my closet, except me sometimes." The more I hear the "Papyrus is The Knight" theory, the more ominous that line gets.
Late but orange is also the color used to represent the roaring so I don’t like where this is going
@@chrissysonicutdrloz OH WAIT I FORGOT THAT LINE
but how would he have found out? considering his character and how he seems easy to manipulate, there could have been a weaker but wicked other. (possibly someone after destruction?)
the only ones I think of are chara and flowey but from what we know, kris takes chara's role as his sibling and asriel hasn't died yet. unless asriel has died and him being gone is a cover-up for his absence but again, clearly alphys isn't injecting determination or him reviving. but if we were to assume somehow flowey were to exist he would be going to asgore or toriel first and then all the other things would happen so no. idk at this point
Just wanna say, I think it's dangerous to assume Papyrus and "San's little brother" are the same person.
I know it's now confirmed by the japanese subtitles BUT Sans has very specifically not named his brother so far, and Deltarune is a different universe, and I wouldn't put it past Toby to lead us on thinking it's going to be Papyrus.
...But I also *also* wouldn't put it past Toby to intentionally keep it cryptic just to screw with us
If sans little brother is not papyrus im gonna cry
The thing is that we know papyrus is in the game to some degree, as when naming your character/yourself in the goner maker sequence, Papyrus is one of the names that trigger a response
@@zepic3895 Or it's just because it's a reference to Undertale.
@@Asocialite__ I mean, it's not like the jukebox reference or the bake sales joke, where it's a reference to a insignificant joke in Undertale. Determination is arguably the most important element in the entire undertale lore, so making a reference to that isn't as insignificant as making a reference to a jukebox would be
@@Asocialite__ nope! Pap is in the game, we just haven't seen him.
I just tested it. Papyrus, sans, Asriel, Toriel... Any Lightners that are in the game get a response of "an interesting coincidence" or "how interesting." But Frisk and Chara are just "truly excellent." So Pap is in game and Chara, apparently, is not. (Putting my own weird theories to rest, as well.)
BTW, this only seems to apply to Lightners. Naming yourself or the vessel Jevil, for instance, gets no reaction.
10:02 - this exact frame might be clue: the magic looks here is represented by a yellow fire - so maybe that means that Neoele will do something involving a very strong magic? Like in Snograve route?
Just rewatching my fav theories(this one and Don't Forget), when I had a thought. the only shadow that had 2 characters in the dark world that matched it was blue, right? And Kris was one of them. But after hearing about what all the shadows could mean, magic, broken homes, lonely bluebirds, etc, I saw Kris in all of them. Kris is our avatar, at the very beginning of the game, we try to make our own, but our choice is taken away and we wake up with Kris. We follow them around the dark world, helping them act and talk and fight.
Could we be singing to Kris to not forget? Are they singing to us? Is there a connection between some of our options when making our character (fav color, gift, etc) that match the shadow puzzle?
IDK. I'm just having fun
Okay, as I'm writing this, I only just finished the intro, but let me just say:
Never change, HBC. I absolutely love the style of these videos. Even the Text-to-Speech; it just makes it better.
yea, the text to speech somehow makes it sound more natural when it hits a "wait... what about ____" than most actual speakers doing the same thing
@@jacksonstarks2867 Yes its really cool :D
@@jacksonstarks2867 I just thought that the TTS voice commenting over the intense or chaotic moments was hilarious, but yeah, you have a point.
Honestly I sometimes can't understand natural speakers (some parts will get overemphasized, and everything else is too soft just as an example...) and honestly it's kind of easier for me to understand these sort of videos, especially when my earphones broke.
It's also just plain fitting for Unrelated.
when you were talking about berdly, all i could think about was forget-me-nots, they're little blue flowers that represent love (any kind, not just romantic) that leaves a lasting imprint, something or someone that you'll never forget,, and i feel that's kinda what berdly is trying for
i had a dream about writing this comment
Maybe that's why he latched on to Susie and Noelle so fast bc they're the main ones so far that helped him in some way so he gets super attached and mistakes it for romantic love
@@someone-gi5lqsometimes ill remember something happening seconds before it happens, its like seeing into the future but only eight before it happens, very useful if i ever have to cosplay as john f kennedy
just found you, the little animations that you do to illustrate your points are so well done
6:14 forgor to include the part where she says: “Oh yeah and actual food too.”
The more I hear about it, the more I want to think that Noelle killed Dess with Snowgrave way back when and has repressed the memory entirely.
Based on how she acts after using Snowgrave on Berdly, it's entirely possible.
Finally somone who shares my thoughts. Sure, there is no magic in overworld, but there are many twist that will suprise us surely
i think the boot represents "being given the boot", possibly grillby considering how sans' store's banner is literally graffiti'd out "grillby's" with "ans" hastily drawn on. this could imply grillby used to work there, but something happened that made them quit or get fired. Also, (just figured this out), grillby is ORANGE.
Plot twist: grillby is the night
Although dark worlds have too much of a connection with water, and a flame man with glasses introducing himself as the knight would not be intimidating at all
Did you forget about Heats Flamesman? How could he be so easily de"feet"ed?
@@allysonruiz3271 I don’t know... A guy made of fire would be pretty scary if he tries attack you.
grillby getting FIREd
@@SrCoelhoPT "Sorry, grillbs, but if you can't stand the heat, then get out of the convenience store"
Whilst I've definitely noticed the boot-like form of the orange puzzle blob, I've always seen it as a cloud. I think it fits with the interpretation of the other blobs as a house, the sun and a wave, as things that appear to be somewhat prevalent in hometown.
I found a concrete explanation for Noelle being associated with the sun: The festival of Sol Invictus (the Roman sun god), is set on the 25th of December.
Which would make this the most obscure Christmas reference in the game.
Since this Dark World is so computer-centered, I thought they represented things normally on a laptop, if they meant anything at all. "Purple House = Home button. Yellow Sun = Brightness keys. Blue Bird = Social media. Green Wave = Surfing the web. (Okay I stretched for that one) Orange Cloud = Cloud storage or Airplane mode."
Granted, I basically just made all of that up off the top of my head, but hey it's still something.
Maybe it's the type of thing that Toby hides like this ; you could say it's normal at first glance, when in reality it does hides something
Come to think of it, the bird does look like the Twitter logo.
I always just assumed those were Homestuck references because Toby did a lot of work for the webcomic(pink being the Sburb symbol, yellow being the Light or Hope aspect, green being Life), but I've always wondered what Orange (arguably a corner of the Time aspect as the cog is orange-ish? The colours largely match up with the aspects, though Time is mainly red.) and Blue represented, so it's cool to see a theory interpreting them.
Note: If this theory holds, yellow representing Hope/Light and Noelle's colour would be quite interesting in terms of lore(hopes and dreams being a significant theme, as well as Light and Dark). Ralsei fits with life as he heals people, and those with Life are "the universe's healers", though Noelle and Susie can too. (EDIT: Just realised that in the comic, Dave Strider is the *Knight* of Time. If Time is tied to the fifth character/Papyrus, the Knight could well be...)
I was thinking about blue being about the breath aspect too, it's usually about freedom and all right?
I can't really think much about it, except about Kris using the dark world as a form of being free i guess? Might explain why he made a dark fountain too.
The wave looks more like the life symbol but also breath
I feel that it's not too far-fetched to say Toby borrowed themes and motifs from Homestuck. The Light and Dark world thing already takes after Prospit and Derse, while the chessboard theme is similar to the carapacians (chess guys).
So when I was re-watching this video, I realized that the lights could represent what each character hates or fears the most. Hear me out here. Susie for example, is obviously scared of her home. It’s basically the one thing she is scared of: parental figures. She’s terrified of Toriel when she first meets her at the end of ch 2, only softening up when Toriel finally tells her to calm down and it just nice and gentle towards her. Next, Noelle is obviously scared of/ hates fire. It doesn’t take a genius to figure that out, with her being a monster that uses solely ice magic, and being heavily related to snow and ice. It’s literally Pokémon logic at this point. Next, I think the blue light more accurately represents Berdly than Kris. The game seems very keen on making it seem like Kris is an outsider in the group of other lighteners, and even the darkeners. The reason I think the blue light is Berdly is because Berdly seems terrified of being “just a regular little bluebird” (he also talks about this in the exact same room/scene as the lights puzzle in question). He talks about being more than just a forgettable little kid, and it would definitely be terrifying for him to just fall back into being that regular little forgettable bluebird that he was before becoming “smart”. Next up is Ralsei, and I think the green shadow is actually the tip of a wizard’s pr mage’s cap like HBC originally claimed, just zoomed in so it could fit into the light puzzle. My thought is, Ralsei is scared of being just a wizard or mage to the lighteners, despite how much he preaches that he *is* basically just a toy for them to play with. He does this because he is terrified that that is all Kris and Susie will see him as, just a wizard who can do magic, and not as Ralsei, the gentle, kind, goat boy darkener that he is. Finally, the orange boot. If we are accepting the fact that the orange represents Papyrus, I believe that it could mean something similar to Ralsei’s fear of just being the clothes he is wearing in the eyes of others, not the person underneath the clothes. Think about it, what is one of the most striking things Paps wears? His boots. He is scared that people will just see him as the boots he is wearing and think he is this grand leader who can protect them. (I know this is his personality in Undertale, but Deltarune seems to really like pulling a 180 with the personality of reoccurring characters like MTT and Paps being super shy, compared to their flamboyant, show off-y styles in Undertale).
Wow this comment is long, but I had to speak my mind about this one
I started this video thinking you were going to far, but ended it finding everything so interesting. I believe you're on the right track!
9:40
A few years ago, o(n Twitter or in an interview maybe), Toby said that _a "certain character" will "learn a fire spell eventually" and its not very good, but you're proud of them anyways._ I forget where I saw it, and at the time I thought it must be Ralsei, but now it makes so much morse sense for it to be Noelle.
its susie. yep susie's ultimateheal. its literally a flame ball. and it sucks.
_OR_ it's Toriel, and she's likely going to make fried fish
Remember when we thought that was ralsei?
@@davisdf3064 ok, that was awful.
Was that by any chance a reference to UTlover's video about Undyne chasing you back to the Ruins?
@@chrissysonicutdrloz
I've never saw it
I assumed the wave was referring to ralseis association with the dark fountains, and how its been commonly depicted on how they move like water, or a wave
4:15 Wait a minute. Kris has no achievements, no "fun" life. So what, what if they was doing all this occult stuff to change it and... by accident they contacted Gaster? That would explain:
- relation of Gaster to 666
- why Kris was so hurt after fight with Spamton
- why Kris is meeting a "man" in the Dark World outer bounds of it
- why Kris suddenly changed in eyes of people around
Mere thought terrified me.
"What the Four Shadows Foreshadow"
this might be the best title ever in a UA-cam video
6:34 Alphys also mentions a “cat” that keeps drinking the bowls of milk she continues put in this alleyway. Susie’s next line of dialogue about the bowl keeping itself refreshed makes some things obvious. This isn’t the first time she’s done this.
Chapter 3 waiting room is getting wild
Gonna turn this waiting room into a Waiting Rave.
23:28 dont' worry buddy in chapter 4 kris will lead Papyrus to kill sans
(Sorry i'm not that good at english i'm italian)
hmm the orange shoes might be susies also if we look at 22:23 her sole is orange tho its most probably papyrus
Great video, the fact about Gaster using "kimi" in Entry 17 surprised me the most tbh lol.
Honestly the yellow symbol reminds me more of a sun, especially since when I was little I’d usually draw a sun in the quarter of my drawings to avoid doing a full circle
honestly this channel is so charming i’m subscribing
Great video! It's wonderful to watch! Great Job! 😄
Hey there! Been enjoying your theory crafting videos for a while.
There's something interesting I'm beginning to realize about the Orange Shadow being a boot, representing papyrus.
It's very much a big stretch, but considering how Papyrus constantly says he wants to join the royal guard throughout Undertale and the fact that he says "This is the worst possible ending" in response to Asgore saying there's no need for a royal guard before you head to the surface in a pacifist run, it kinda leans towards the idea that Papyrus could be the elusive knight that the darkeners refer to. Could this explain why we haven't seen Papyrus yet after two chapters, as he's busy creating new dark worlds?
When you get the key to unlock san's room in Undertale, Papyrus will enter in and say "Is Sans pranking you across space and time? I hate it when he does that," implying he is aware of Sans's ability to teleport throughout the game and the multiple "timelines" Sans refers to during his boss fight.
Also, Papyrus loves puzzles, much like the one that prompted this theory in the first place.
These are some quick observations I came up after I watched the video, and it's very likely that Papyrus isn't the knight. After all, Kris seems to be the only one who has the ability to create dark fountains, unless the whole "closet" connection where the dark worlds are situated tie Papyrus back into this.
It's also possible that this shadow puzzle means absolutely nothing in the big picture, but we'll have to wait and see what Toby has in mind for us when the next set of chapters come out.
Queen says that any Lightner with enough Determination should be able to create a Dark Fountain, it doesn't have to just be Kris.
@@Solibrae yup even berdly was about to create a dark fountain before ralsei stopped him
@chad sans I took away that Ralsei was Lying, and he stopped Berdly from trying to cover up that lie.
@@xXRickTrolledXx i was meaning that ralsei told berdly the story about the roaring. if what you just said ends up being the truth though then i guess i get the credit for that
Yeah, my feelings on Susie are on a similar wavelength, since there's a lot of nonverbal cues that give me that general vibe. Like how she does go to the phone when Toriel asks, but paused for at least a solid moment before avoiding it. If she was just doing it to comply with Toriel, it would be more consistent a characterization for her to have simply ran back to Kris the moment Toriel's back was turned. But she does not do that, and instead takes a pause.
What is implied here is not evident with what we know now. However, from my personal experiences, I had a great home life, but due to issues with self worth I avoided the people who knew the most about my failures; which during school was my parents. She presents with traits adjacent to ADHD at least, if not PTSD. Thus it is my belief that she has, while not explicitly abusive in any manner, an explicitly bad relationship with any authority in her life; displayed by a chronic lack of trust unless shown safety and compassion first.
The small note about Gaster using "kimitachi" in his entry number 17 and the small skit that Alphys, Sans, and Papyrus wind up doing is just... so precious. I love your animations and little asides that you include in these videos so much!
I find it strange how Seam knows so much about the shadow crystals and as Jevil's friend, I feel like he knows more than he tells us
22:07 I agree with this whole heartedly. Especially for some franchises, using fanon to fill in for important information that just doesn't exist (except in game manuals sometimes, but those are no more trustworthy than fannon most of the time) is necessary sometimes.
*cough* Sonic *cough*
I see the orange one as catty. She’s given a bit of character depth already, so she’s probably going to be a major character in the next few chapters
I don't see it happening, tbh
i love the way you manage to add personality to your tts
A dark world in the cemetary has fantastic potential for horror and character exploration.
I don’t think the yellow shape represents fire specifically but it looks like an incomplete sun to me. The sun CAN represent fire but it can also represent a lot of other things like light or daytime.
If the green represents Ralsei specifically I think the hat explanation would make more sense to me.
The explanation for the purple house is really solid. I definitely believe that Susie probably has a rough home life.
I don’t think much needs to be said about the blue piece given Berdley has a reaction to it and Kris isn’t typically associated with birds.
The theory really falls apart when it comes to the boot though. The rest of the shadows represented the other main characters of chapter 2, so you’d think there’d be something related to Kris right? Boots can sometimes represent oppression so maybe it could be related to the player controlling Kris? I don’t think Toby plans for papyrus to be a major character given he was already one in Undertale.
I can’t remember if this was mentionaed already in This videos but there’s another thing I’ve noticed. The first time I myself completed the the puzzles, I left the bird shape out of the square. This reminds me of the snow grave route, where the blue sphere was torn off of the toy located at the hospital: the story goes on with or with Berdly, same as the toy, same as the puzzle, and this further connects the characters and their colors to these shadows in the puzzle.
Slightly off topic, but the shadows from the puzzle only contain characters who have been in the dark world. This would mean Papyrus has been to the dark world, and there’s a strong possibility that papyrus is the knight, because he’s been to the dark world without the player knowing.
EDIT: I might be remembering wrong about the Berdly piece not being required. If it is required then it would make sense because you can only solve on the normal route where Berdly is alive. I’ll update to verify my claim.
Where’s the update
This is awesome! You've earned a sub :)