Thanks for speaking about this. Many members of my family don’t believe a man can EVER, under any circumstances (even massive age difference), be sexually assaulted or raped by a female. It’s treated for comedy or even that it’s a good thing. I was raped by a 41yr old woman when I was barely 14. Get this, two years later I’m in therapy for anger issues and I tell the therapist, an LDS therapist, that I’ve been angry ever since that moment and I can’t control my anger. The guy told me to confess to my bishop, which I did (he also told my bishop behind my back). I was penalized (informal probation, no sacrament/prayers for 6 months, very, very embarrassing) by my bishop and nothing was ever done to the woman. I don’t ever speak about it because if i do, most people don’t think it should be a problem. My father who is dead, was fully TBM, still even years later used to bring up my sexual sin aka my rape as an example of the atonement. I wish someone would finally hear me. I was a kid, I was raped and it seriously fucked me up, even today.
I hear you and believe you too. There is no consent because a minor cannot give consent.❤I hope you find your own truth, acceptance and joy going forward.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. Even as a women and survivor of CSA and rape it makes me so angry that men are very rarely treated with the respect they should be and should be believed. It was only as an adult that I found out that the Vicar at the Church of England primary School (basically a state school but also partly paid for by the CofE) had been abusing the boys in my class and many other classes from ages 4 - 11. For some of them the abuse and rape carried on into their teens (sadly the boys who grow up in the church and still attended the Church the school was affiliated with their parents on Wednesdays and Sundays. I know for a while at least some of our class mates didn't believe the, now men, when they came forward. The Vicar was jailed, I can't remember how many years he got, but I do know it wasn't enough! It's incredibly brave of you for sharing your story and I'm sure it will help many more people than you know ❤
this is heartbreaking- you can see this poor man processing some of this in real time. Especially where he's considering that his family failed him, because they had given so much authority to the church. Every episode with Margie is incredible, her humanity comes out of every pore. Bless you Margie.
This is breaking me. Thank you for having this episode. I was shamed and disfellowshipped at 16 for having premarital sex yet my molesters, who highly sexulized me at a very early age, got off scott free because they held the priesthood. God forbid their lives got ruined but my life... I so appreciate the Jones for sharing their vulnerable and heart breaking story.
Omg! I was molested for 10 yrs (age 5-15) by my older brother. He also molested my younger sisters. Yet he was able to serve a full time mission. But when I messed up, I was disfellowshipped.
I never questioned any of it until I was in therapy in my late forties after a nervous breakdown. After many sessions she asked the question that changed my life, “ Do you think that you may be unduly influenced by your religion?”
@@deadmanswife3625 I cannot answer for Dawn, but yes, uncontrollable crying without known cause was part of the nervous breakdown when I broke down. It can be less obvious externally, you could feel paralysed, you could get into your head and feel like you will die, or feel like you're in a pressure cooker, and people wouldn't even notice. You could start screaming, hyperventilating, feel and behave extremely restless, and so on. You could develop somatic symptoms like pain, digestive issues, migrane, etc. Nervous breakdown is not a medical term, it is quite unspecific, describes a rather short episode of unusually strong negative emotionality; but usually there is a deep, underlying reason for it, e.g., subjectively strong feelings of fear, grief, sadness, depression, anxiety, cognitive dissonance, stress, etc. that maybe are compartmentalised and not acknowledged until the break out. It could be for example physical, psychological, familial, relational, societal reasons which can be very specific to an individual person. Basically, during the breakdown, it is nearly impossible for oneself to take a step back and look at the causal problem, you get overwhelmed completely. There is no clear definition for it, so you will have to inquire specifically with a person to find out what their nervous breakdown was.
@@deadmanswife3625 IMO mental breakdowns are relatively normal when someone can't face or work on their trauma and people that have to deny their true feelings and their true self when they operate from more of a false self they're bound to implode of course that's just my opinion
@@leahflower9924 thank you I appreciate your answer. I have a couple other thoughts I would like to hear your ideas on. Is a mental breakdown the same as a nervous breakdown? . And if you are feeling a lot of sadness so you cry would that be the appropriate response to face your sadness or not really? Thank you again for answering
I am not Mormon or LDS, - rather a recovering catholic and very unfamiliar with Mormonism. But I have to commend Mormon Stories for the honesty and the BRAVERY of your guests in talking about subjects that are uncomfortable for most all religions. Thank you for offering this platform
@@katbos4995 I’ve been listening to MS - A LOT-and just heard John’s interview with Patrick Mason, so I’m getting the picture. Patrick did fine, possibly as expected, kind of defensive, John did great- he was excellent and seemed very sincere, and Margi wins as the one who once again, touched our hearts ❤️
Women rape victims are toast if their rapist is their husband. My daughter is divorcing her active LDS, member of the bishopric husband who was having sex with her when she was asleep on a sleeping medication and unaware of what was happening. He would send her pornographic texts the next day to tell her everything he'd done to her during the night. That's rape. It's literally defined in state law as rape. That's not all he was doing, of course. He was abusing her and the kids in multiple ways. His abusiveness had been reported to church leaders multiple times over the years. They put him in the bishopric. Our local LDS community showed up in court at the order of protection hearing to support the husband, including the sheriff who is active LDS. The church refuses to tell her if they will discipline him in any way. There is no support at all at any level as far as I can tell for booting his rapist butt right out of the church, even thought he admitted what he'd done in texts AND in a motion his own lawyer filed with the court. Can you say "corruption"? Everyone involved in this travesty is scum, in my opinion. I wonder if this would have been the outcome if, say, Dallin Oaks' daughter had been the victim? Or one of the other G.A.s? Anyone know a law firm with the guts to go after the church, law enforcement/prosecutors, the sheriff, the soon-to-be ex, the negligent church leaders abuse was reported to, witnesses who committed perjury, etc.? Because I'd seriously like to go after them all civilly. I have now had extremely blunt conversations with two bishops and the stake president, and sent a copy of what I've told them to the area president and President Nelson. No response from Salt Lake, of course. Didn't expect any. "We oppose abuse" is such bunk. They literally call men they know to be abusive to leadership positions throughout the church. That's not opposing abuse. It's enabling it.
I am proud to say I am not Mormon. I think it would take multiple Lawyers to take this church or ward on. I wish there were a group of Lawyers out there that would help.
@@judygillespie3242 there are a number of law firms who take child abuse cases against the church. Finding one that will represent adult victims is a whole other issue. There's a whole line of thought that abuse is somehow not as reprehensible when it is against an adult. Don't get me started. Our culture is sick beyond belief.
@@judygillespie3242 I know you mean it differently but when you use the word proud to not be Mormon all that means to me is your circumstances were different. I was born into it as were many others. I am respectfully asking you consider this 🙏 -Thank you bc I know no harm meant ❤️
I listened to “Rachel’s” story today and couldn’t leave a comment. But hearing another story now… I was sexually abused by my brother (not intercourse) 6 decades ago. I will tell you - especially if you don’t know about sex at all, SOMETHING BREAKS!!!! When that happens something breaks. I spent YEARS abusing substances, promiscuity and more. I was only helped by doing MDMA therapy 10 years ago - I FINALLY had some peace. Being sexually abused stays with you- it’s crazy. Jared is correct - we ARE BROKEN
I hear you, Mary, when you don't learn about physical boundaries in family but learn to look at your own sexuality as sth transactional, you feel like something is broken inside. It made me feel for many years as if some kind of emotional limb had been amputated, I loathed my body and my heart, very hard to feel worthy of love from myself and others. So, I did the same you did to somehow cope the best I could, promiscuity and substance abuse, and today I feel lucky to be alive, it could have gone either way during decades of depression. For a kid or teenager, when you don't know sex and are sexualised, it throws you off track, it can only even take 5 min, one touch, and your childhood is gone and nobody can ever give it back to you ;( I am so super happy to read about your success with MDMA therapy, and wish you a wonderful life - I do not know you Mary, but I am so proud of you. Thank you so much for sharing.
I went into psychology to figure out what was wrong with me and so much of psychology revolves around trauma one way or another, most so called disorders are just manifestations or symptoms from trauma
I couldn't even sleep after listening to this last night. So much of this resonated with me. The dogmas and secrecy of the LDS church and the way it has impacted me and my children is overwhelming. The inability of my parents to see outside their bubble and their blind obedience which made it impossible to ever have conversations about being human and navigating the world. My parents total trust in leaders who have no training to advise, encouraged their manipulations, the guilt and morality shaming which goes on and is completely endemic to my family. The fantasy standard of the perfect family shown to the public and the subsequent family lies, secrets, and belief there is only one right way, bending actual reality to fit this fictitious picture of perfection. My parents were operating from a base of fear about the outside world, so homeschooling, limited movies, reading, music restrictions and many conspiracy theories. The phrase "doubt your doubts" is now locked in my mind along with the perpetual instructions given not to think critically. I am so grateful to all of you for being so courageous in discussions about appropriate boundaries and expectations of a governing force and also providing resources for creating a psychologically healthy family. Heaven knows that if my parents had seen similar behaviors in any other church /org they would have been livid and taken action.
Something I just realized about why I love Mormon Stories so much is the length of the videos. For some of these people this is the first time they've had a truly in-depth conversation with someone about their life & how they came to be where they are today. AND it's with someone who completely validates their feelings! Makes me want to be in an episode just for therapeutic relief😂 y'all are doing amazing work😋
Thank you all for shining a light on these heartbreaking stories! We maintain a public database of LDS sexual abuse cases, and even though we have over 500 currently documented, we feel like it's just the tip of the iceberg. Whether a person is a faithful LDS member or an "exmo" or a "nevermo," I think most people agree that talking about these things in a transparent way is healthy and tends toward a reduction in abuse and more healing for victims/survivors.
@Floodlit What you are doing is simply amazing. I'm a never-mo. I've always known about the LDS church, and worked for a Mormon for a few years. What peaked my interest was learning that a couple I knew had left the church. That was in 2019. 4 years later, we are really close. I had already been following MSP and have learned so much about the restrictions which drove my friends out. I'm Catholic. Although there were no issues in my parish, the exposure of the abuse hit us really hard. To learn how the LDS church has handled the problem is sickening. They've learned nothing from the backlash against Catholicism. Sure, members left the church in their droves, but that brought about a huge change. There are strict rules about interacting with youth. There is a buddy system which ensures that all children are accompanied by a parent, or trusted adult, when coming into direct contact with a priest or Bishop. Slowly people are returning. I stepped aside but now go to weddings, baptisms, funerals, and all the holiday services. I love that. I even had my daughter baptised there. The LDS church is like a grenade. The pin is nearly out, but the stubborn soldier clutching it wont let go. It will explode eventually and the results will be catastrophic. Leaders and congregants need to open their eyes and ears to the truth. They cant keep limping around, pretending all is well, while the children suffer. They are already haemoraging members around the world, because of child SA and financial misconduct on a massive scale. They continue to place men & some women in positions of power over children, without doing due diligence. Not a single background check and allowing the abusers to meet with kids one-on-one. I wish your organisation the very best in exposing the damage being done to Mormon children. You will succeed, because you have your priorities right.
@@elizabethgrogan8553 "The pin is nearly out, but the stubborn soldier clutching it wont let go." I'm saving that one. Thank you for your thoughts and insights here.
@@elizabethgrogan8553 I'm Catholic but currently taking a step back to really, for the first time, critically think. I'm a former youth minister of 15 years and have had so much safe environment training over the years, it's crazy. As I've thought about it over the last couple years, this thought has come up often: the same church that covered up sexual abuse by clergy and created an environment that breeds secrecy is the same church that then teaches us how to protect ourselves from them. Why not look at the deeper issues in the environment of the church? It's heartbreaking.
@@hopejeffcoat1819 I’m baptized Catholic as well. Spotlight was an epiphany for many, although I had already walked away. As a teen, a priest SA me and I was so totally freaked out and told no one at the time. I’m 68 and it still appalls me. I got interested in Mormonism after following the Chad/Lori Daybell case- waiting for the LDS church to comment, disgusted by their silence
What a beautiful couple. I got a lump in my throat when Jared said his father was loving him the way he knew how. Wow. That speaks volumes to what a quality person he is.
So much of this conversation is validating my own experiences as a seven year old sexually abused in the Mormon Chapel. Thank you for this conversation, it's helping me understand my confusion as a child and the ways the Church protect their institution, including my mother who dismissed me when I told her of the abuse and my father who admitted he counted the Church over me as his first priority, thus adding to my mental torment into adulthood.
I find it EXTREMELY DISTURBING to learn that Mormon children/teens are required to meet with their Bishop alone, behind closed doors and are questioned about any sexual experience (in detail).
For all he has been through, he still places a lot of value in the outward things that Mormons are proud of. It really speaks to how hard to become untangled from Mormon values. God bless your journey.
I couldn’t help noticing their chairs pushed so close together and the caring, supportive body language. Lovely couple. Thank you for sharing your family with us.
I’m a minority but I felt the opposite. I felt that Ashley was very cold during this episode. Granted I have an hour left but she was very curt and without emotion. Maybe that’s just her personality but I didn’t pick up on an empathetic wife, especially when he spoke about the first time he masturbated when their first child was born she made a point that he did it while she was caring for their first child in the ICU in another city. Now I don’t agree with the church and the addiction group for something as this but when he told Ashley she went to the bishop and she was upset more because it was his problem and it had nothing to do with her. When they spoke of their courtship and marriage she just stated facts while he said it was a big time or a good time she said nothing leading me to feel she wasn’t excited to get married to him. Again that’s just my interpretation and I could be way off base and my apologies if so but it just seems as if she’s not supportive in him telling his horrific experience from the start.
Wow! That was mind blowing for this non Mormon, non Christian, retired psychotherapist and mother. What convoluted, twisted suffering. How courageous you all are. Milton Erickson and Einstein have this quote attributed to both of them so I am not sure which one said it,"you cannot solve the problem at the level of the problem". The double, triple and quadruple binds are crazy making. How you emerged from this mire is a very human miracle.
That idea of “sanctification through shame” feels so intensely familiar to me. Perfection was never within reach, but I *can* live in a perfect state of constant self-loathing.
True...I used to strive to be a perfectionist and when I realized I couldn't be perfect I obsessed over all my mistakes and then I just started self hating and I became the family F up go figure
There are so many critical themes and points made in this discussion. Thank you to all involved! As a survivor of child sexual abuse - one of my perpetrators was also an LDS babysitter - as well as a survivor of being brought up as a Mormon (not to mention all the insanity of what gets labeled as “addiction” in the LDS church), I can really appreciate this interview.
We have a KNOWN Pedo in our ward. I found him in the nursery when I picked up my 2yo. His wife was the Nursery Leader. I went to the Bishop, who was a Probation Officer, and he said he couldn’t interfere with the repentance process-. Longer story, but you get the gist. My daughter never went back. Not on my watch.
If he has been convicted, you may consider contacting the local police department and making a report. Most child SO's have terms in their release that would not allow them in a nursery anywhere, church or not.
I'm a born & raised Catholic in Riverside, CA. I had many LDS friends in high school (who are still dear friends now) as well as my aunt, uncle & cousins are LDS (except for the 2 cousins that have left the church). I remember that ward in Riverside west being super active. I used to want to go to their dances because it seemed like so much fun. 😂 And I loved hearing Jared talk about playing in the orange groves. That was definitely a thing. I have been impacted by generational sexual abuse as well and have very similar experiences. Just a different church. It's so interesting to me, as I deconstruct my own faith, how similar LDS and Catholic experiences are. Which is why I am enthralled with Morman Stories. Thank you John & Margie!!! And thank you Jared & Ashley. Because of your bravery in sharing your story, others are able to heal just a bit more. I hope you are too. ❤
There is such a thing as The Human Condition. Humans are weak individuals. Sexual urges can be strong and some people. I don't know why some people always going around trying to blame other people. Once you get it together start pulling yourself up worry about yourself God will judge
Fantastic you guys are talking about normal thoughts, desires and actions so openly, whereas in the church such things are characterized as so taboo. Nice work!
Just had a relative tell us he was abused on his mission by other missionaries and mission leaders demanded he not press charges and not ever speak of it again and left the abusing missionaries on their mission..After all these years and carrying that for decades..I speak out about lesser abuse that happened to me, basically a type of financial abuse and I believe part of extreme misogyny that was happening in my ward and stake and I constantly and consistantly get told I must be lying , no way it could be true or I had to have misunderstood as the general reaction from members..I can't even imagine the reaction he would likely get since they already silenced him years ago..The hurt happening ..will be curious to see if they too were gaslight and or demanded silence or unbelief..since it is the standard go to it seems
I understand this as being through every religion and every path of life. It's down to thwarted minds and evil practicing Individuals. Yes these people are here but they are everywhere you go. I like to think that there are more good people than bad around me. And that is not to put down the suffering of those who have fallen prey to these practices. Guess what I'm pointing out is it's not just the Mormon church that has these problems. I hope the friend you know has found someone in his life that will help him heal. I have a friend suffered child sexual abuse and he went onto meet a wo derful wife that helped him heal allowing g him to go on and make some good out of his life. Xxxx
@Maria Quinn saying "it's not just the Mormons" is a form of minimizing. So is moving immediately to "well, he can be healed, hope he found a good wife to heal him, I had a friend who went through something similar and he's fine." All of these are invalidating to the victim and they are designed to shut victims up and make it look as though victims are making a big deal out of nothing. These are shaming responses. They should never happen. They are also designed to absolve the church of any responsibility to act or to be accountable or to do anything constructive or appropriate. All of these responses make victims feel not seen, not heard, not valued, not respected, and not loved because they aren't when the focus is on explaining away and minimizing. To put it in visceral terms, it would be like Christ walking up to the woman with an issue of blood for 12 years, looking at her, saying, "well, it's not so bad, Susie over there has had the same thing for 22 years, I hope you figure out how to deal with it," and walking away, leaving her still bleeding. This is EXACTLY what the church does to abuse survivors every single time it encounters them.
@@mariaquinn920 The problem is that the church members are not required reporters like a Doctor or a Teacher would be. And the general attitude and policies of the church around issues of sexual abuse was / is victim blaming. That is still taught today in the church. Behaviors that lead to not trusting ones own judgement in opposition to any "authorities" . And the idea of discernment that people have any discernment over what happens with others is false and damaging to victims of abuse. So many victims of sexual abuse by fellow members have been forced to continue to be in situations with their abusers because they were not believed, or the leaders created their own non therapeutic solutions, or could not discern the red flags and behaviors of abusive people. This has been the lived experience of many of us. So yes high numbers of abusers hid out in the church because it is a place they can get away with it undetected and undeterred.
@Jared82 You're very welcome. I'm so sorry for what happened to you and your daughter. I appreciate your being willing to share your story and John having you on. I'm very glad to have a man speak about his experience. Men are too often overlooked when we talk about survivors' experiences. Your story is heart-rending in many ways; you deserved so much better. I hope that as more LDS survivors speak out, and say things must change, we can make a difference for coming generations.
These addiction groups are not safe. Untrained people are in positions of power and do not have the ability to discern when or if the people they are treating need professional help. Mormon "discernment" is dangerous. A few weeks ago a TBM I know told me they were working with an LDS addiction group. I am seriously concerned for all involved.
And they claim it is patterned after AA, but there is NO anonymity and no sponsor to call if they relapse. My brother did a mormon addiction program for drugs with devastating consequences when he relapsed. Very, very dangerous in so many ways. If someone you love is in a mormon "addiction program" run, don't walk, RUN with your loved one to a licensed professional. It could save a life.
I went to the women's group one time and saw how the wives were talking about password tricks and other ways to track your husband's online activity. I realized at that first meeting that I'd rather get divorced than have that kind of marriage. I never went back.
I am grateful for those coming forward and being willing to share their abuse (of all kinds) within their LDS families and LDS culture. I thought all of my emotional trauma was a result of my ex-husband’s abuse. As I have now been going to therapy weekly and listening to these podcasts, I am having major realizations that my trauma is actually stemming from much earlier. Thank you, all, for sharing your stories! I cannot doubt that you are helping so many others in their path to understanding and healing.
I’m at the 1:38:00 mark and I just want to say that I’ve seen these dynamics occur outside of the context of religion/church as well & I want thank you all for speaking about it. I’ve had to cut out a lot of family for protecting an abuser and seeing the legal process play out has been even more difficult as they have really dropped the ball. I wish these issues were dealt with in better ways… the abuser being painted as the victim is too common. All at the expense of the real victim to deal with it themselves. It’s so so heartbreaking
Exactly. But I would say people are always trying to blame someone. Once you find out then get yourself together take back your power and find your way in life
Being a neverMo from near where Jared served his mission in Australia, I'm pretty sure he would have heard the word "wanker" used in many, many contexts. The majority of the time, it is used to identify someone who is either doing something stupid, or are what we call "full of s*&t". You explain Mormonism to any aussie you meet in the street, they will literally tell you "what a load of crap". Well done to Jared and Ashley for coming forward and presenting their story. It is a good warning for current TBM families on how the church will react to forms of abuse of it's members, by other members.
Thanks for sharing your story. I feel your pain. I was molested repeatedly by a Mormon neighbor when I was 10 - 11 years old. It has been a long journey and I still have not entirely healed. So much guilt is associated with my experience.
The support by the community for an abuser is similar to the support by family of an abusive spouse in a divorce! It’s very frightening for the other spouse and continues to play out for years.
1:18:00 Powerful, Margie! This is very true and important for Church members to know. I have a passion for family law (aspiring attorney) and abuse victims. In the LDS Facebook groups I am a part of, I NEVER suggest women (or men) to go to their Bishops for counsel and guidance. There is NO point, and it will usually backfire anyways. Bishops are not trained to handle or counsel regarding abuse. Sadly, even attorneys and judges DO NOT have proper training or experience with abuse. When you consider the corruption within our justice system, as well, these people holding power over families and making final judgements on them, ultimately hurts abuse victims as well.
41:34 there was a song called Godly Sorrow when I was a teen. I loved that song because I identified with it and it pulled at my heart. I believe this kind of thinking of shame and sorrow lead to my major depression.
Thanks for discussing this as a man, and boy. We never get to hear men's victim stories. It's also similar to what I felt about these issues and an LDS youth and young women.
I stumbled across "Mormon Stories", and have just been shocked at the level of guilt and shame encouraged by this religion. I am a retired Psychiatric NP, ex-Catholic, now an Episcopalian. I thought Catholicism encouraged harmful, unecessary guilt r/t sex, but the Mormons have gone even further. Masturbation is normal and healthy 99% of the time for both males and females. Heavy guilt and shame as well as control are hallmarks of a cult. Now, stories of sexual abuse by leaders of Mormonism are emerging, just as they did in the Catholic church. So glad these brave people are speaking up about this and bringing it to light. Thank you.
Recovering Catholic. My high school GF was molested by the priest who led the folk mass (which she sang in). I was the person she informed, tearfully. Neither of our mothers would believe her. The priest ended up transferred to another state, where he was caught abusing 2 girls years later.
42:53 100%! The statement right before the time marker should be a TikTok video. I also felt that in order to be honest I needed to say everything that was in my heart that was on my mind. I had no boundaries and that has not served me well, even though I thought it did for a while because I felt honest and because I felt like it helped me make friends, but I wasn’t being good to myself by sharing all of my thoughts with people who didn’t burn my trust to know those thoughts. And feeling shame was just the consequence of telling the truth, and it was a sign that I had done the proper repentance step of confessing and repairing, and the shame was a motivator to never do it again. I don’t think that is a healthy kind of shame that I had. I think there are better ways to motivate for behavior changes.
I too remember Mormonism giving me the message that unless I shared every thought, I wasn’t being fully honest. It took until my child was in her 20s, who left the church before me, saying to me, “Mom, you don’t have to share every thought.” She learned boundaries and taught me. I in turn taught my mom, who had panic if she didn’t share every thought, she didn’t feel she could pass a temple recommend interview “honest in all your dealings.”
41:20 “I accepted that shame was part of my existence. You show up, and you take the shame. You take the pain, because it was going to be the thing that would help you to progress.”
I remember as a teenager feeling like i needed to "confess" to my bishop that i had been abused (by an adult non member). So messed up but i had recieved messages that made me feel like i needed to 🤷
Watching this from the Uk as a non mormon, thankyou Jared and Ashley for sharing your experiences, the more we talk about this subject openly the better! John, predators will always be predators and there is no cure! It is absolutely the mormon church's culture at fault , that the predators go on with their lives and have and will abuse again. This is one of the problems of a secretive high controlled group calling itself a religion!
News flash. There will always be sin in the world they're always be murderers rapists thieves always always always. Once you wake up you take control of your own destiny One Foot In Front of the other and find your way in this world
One victim even if there is no recidive from the abusor is enough to denounce and punish. I never thought that the LDS church was on the same level as Jehovah Witnessed and scientology. Thank for the podcast. Very informative for an agnostic like me.
It is amazing how guilt and shame can be used and exploited, even surroding a natural body function. It's also amazing to contemplate the difference between what Joseph Smith allowed himself in the arena of sexuality and what is expected of young Mormons.
I'm a woman and was abused and raped as a child by my childminders husband and their 18 year old son. It took me till my early thirties to tell my mum, she was a single parent who returned to work with i was 4 (my dad left when i was 2) as she wanted a better future for us both and i am incredibly proud of her having watched her go from a clerk to a financial accountant all by herself she got zero colds support from my dad who had moved abroad don't no government help except £18 a week in child maintenance (which every family recieved per child no matter your circumstances back in the late 80's and early 90's. It took me so long to tell her as i didn't want her to feel guilty in anyway! I thought i had managed to come the abuse away in a box on the furthest recesses of my mind. I still had nightmares about it but overall, somehow I had managed to hide it. Until last year when it really came to the forefront. I had suffered two severe acute strokes and could not use my left arm, couldn't walk because my left foot was just dragging behind me, i didn't know what was going on with me and had already been sent home from hospital 5/6 times after have no scans and with "classic" stroke symptoms beginning told the symptoms were caused by stress or my migraines i was actually told twice that i "definitely" not had a stroke by two different doctors. Because i couldn't walk i had to have someone take me to the toilet in a wheelchair and every other time i needed this help either my mum or partner or nurse would wheel me into the toilet and then leave as i could get from the wheelchair to the toilet and wash my hands, pull down and pull up my jogging bottoms with one hand etc... by this time was different it was a male nurse who wheeled me into the toilet and insured of leaving her locked the door and I'm sure you can guess what happened next. I was actually dying by this point but didn't know but felt extremely unwell and had known "something" was very wrong and i had felt like i was screaming underwater. The next time i needed the toilet i tried to walk on my own as i couldn't see a female nurse and i blacked out bounced off the wall and straight into Someone else's trolley, i came to half way towards hitting the ground. My rapist then came running towards me and grabbed me under my arms and grabbed my boobs. The guy whose trolley i had fallen into shouted at the rapist to get off of me as did a Dr that appeared. I was chucked in the wheelchair and then thrown back on the trolley! Seriously hurt. My partner is a police officer and was working and i had sent my mum home because she was so tired and my partner would be able to be with me at around 4am. All this happened before 2am. I finally saw a female nurse and told her what had happened, she put her arm around me and told me she wouldn't let the rapist near me. She was taking me to the toilet in the wheelchair and the reality ran after her and started to try and yank the chair out of her hands eventually actually banding to, she shouted at him that I asked for a female, he tried to wheel me into the toilet again and stuck my god leg out do he couldn't wheel me wheel me back in the. The nurse retained control of the chair and took me to a different toilet. Because of the risk of me falling she did make me leave the door unlocked but with her standing right outside the door, the rapist tried to open the toilet door multiple times. When she took me back she found the charge nurse and helped me tell him what had happened, he believed me without missing a beat, which looking back made me wonder if he had suspicions about the rapist already. My partner turned up at around 4am and called it in and a detective came and spoke to me in a private room. This is still on going as well as a medical negligence case against the hospital who f'ed up spectacularly nearly killing me twice. What happened in that toilet brought all the trauma and distress i had been hiding for years back up. I was 36 when all this happened. I am still fighting to get mental health help! Which is crazy bit boo unheard of especially in the UK right now. Even a 10 year old child with a terminal heart condition, who's been through two heart transplants, mother could get her dying soon mental health help! When dying children can't any help there is a serious problem. If i was offered help tomorrow but knew there was a child waiting i world tell them to help that child first, sadly it doesn't work like that. The Jones are amazing and so brave and they've been through so much heartbreak, they are incredible. As are John and Margie for giving people a platform that is safe, no judgement with care, kindness and understanding, you two are also an amazing couple and people on your own right, you can just tell Margie is a brightshining light who cares deeply and wholeheartedly ❤❤❤
As a fellow child SA survivor who didn’t grow up in any sort of religion at all, I ALWAYS felt the need to confess, to tell on my self. I think some of that is a trauma response.
Of course Utah doesn't make it a legality to report known child abuse when in a religious setting. The laws need to change so covering up abuse in a religious setting is also a crime
It’s wild to me that in Mormonism “avoiding even the appearance of evil” is such a hard hitter, but when JS married underaged GIRLS, giving the appearance of shmedapelia (if we’re sticking to the rhetoric that grape didn’t occur during those marriages) it’s totally accepted. But drinking Diet Pepsi looks bad? Lmaooo what?!
Yes! And that big bad coffee! Chad and Lori killing children …all ok for them… but hard no on a coffee, coke or heaven forbid, a glass of wine. Strange group.
Sounds like some churches cults institutions or whatever you wanna call them want to own your mind and your body but slavery is illegal so they unofficially enslave you
I am an LDS abuse survivor. My bishop was made aware of the abuse that was happening in our home, and he decided to keep it a secret from my parents and the authorities. His choice to keep it a secret led to me and a couple of my other siblings being abused. He could have prevented it if he had done the right thing. I know other church members that were dealing with sexual abuse in their homes, too, and the boys were never given the help that they needed. The abuse was always covered up and dealt with quietly, which often just led to more abuse. My bishop made the decision to keep the abuse in my family a secret because, at the time, my first abuser was still on his mission. The bishop felt that it would be too embarrassing to bring home a missionary early for sexual abuse charges. My abuser got home from his mission, and then the bishop immediately found him and his girlfriend worthy of being married in the temple. My abuser's first wife was never informed that she was marrying an abusive man. This, of course, led to years of abuse within their marriage too. As a survivor of abuse and cover-up in the church, it has always been extremely isolating and lonely. The mishandling of this abuse was one of the main reasons I left the church when I was young. I love seeing other members come out and share their stories. I believe that the church's structure allows for the breeding ground for abusers and abusive behavior to thrive. More members need to talk about it. Keeping it a secret makes it feel like abuse in the church is not any more of a problem than within any other organization. I don't believe that. I think the rate of abuse is extremely high within the Mormon church and Mormon families.
when Jared mentions that his abuser was still allowed to go on his mission so it made him feel like his abuse must not have been a big deal... I felt the exact same way as a child. Last year my father and I were talking about all the abuse in the family and I had mentioned that it had been completely normalized for me. my father couldn't understand how that was possible. I was 4 when I started being abused. I was abused throughout my entire childhood. Here are men that are now being found worthy to go on their missions, given the priesthood, and married in the temple... my abuse was not a big deal to the church. I was 8 when my first abuser came home on his mission and then immediately got married. At 8 I thought that maybe it was just normal for boys to practice these things with their siblings so that they were ready for their marriage.
The merge of family and church is a massive loss. Despite everything that happened in my childhood, my parents are still TBM members. All of these stories of abuse cover-ups keep coming out, and I was recently sharing them with my parents. I was so upset about the Arizona supreme court ruling recently that said church leaders have the right to hide abuse they learn about in private confessional. My parents told me that they feel that it is the church's right to hide abuse if the state law allows for it. My parents side with an organization that allows for abuse to thrive within its walls and the homes of its members. My parents side with an organization that did nothing to stop me from being abused. My family has been destroyed by what the church did. The church stole everything from me, including my parents and most of my siblings.
This Is Jared, Im so sorry to hear of your experience. I hope you have found peace and happiness and a community that supports you. I discovered that many of my family and friends while they know that the abuse is wrong choose to make apologies in order to preserve their world view and feelings of safety. I believe Its part of their trauma response / avoidance. It doesn’t mean they don’t love me but I also do not accept it. I will continue to push for change to call out the church and those who protect it every opportunity I get. I have had enough shame for multiple lifetimes and have decided not to show up that way for myself anymore. I have 0 advice for anyone on how they should deal with their own abuse but I have tons of love and empathy for them and think they should do whatever makes them happy and keeps them healthy and safe! Sending love your way!
@user-kj3nh4bt3b Thanks Jared, I appreciate the love. I'm really sorry for all you endured too. Thank you for being brave and strong enough to speak out and fight for change.
Thank you for this hoonesty/transparency. Not that crappy stuff like this hasn't happened in Presbyterian or Baptist or Aetheist homes. This stuff happened alot in the 70s-90s. What I think is DANGEROUS about the LDS church....is the missione stuff and the idea that a TEENAGER can think he is a Priest or in the Priesthood?
The other dangerous thing is the culture of shaming around sexual abuse victims and pressure to forgive the abuser, which is common everywhere but especially prevalent in high-demand groups, especially (but not limited to) religious ones. And yes, the concept of priesthood is particularly bad--it means deference to a group of unqualified people solely on the basis of their gender and often their wealth.
Oh, good mercy....He told his in-laws?....he had to "confess" as a grown man to his bishop? Ridiculous! People are human....end of story. Marital issues are nobody else's business.
I think Jared NEVER had an ''addiction'' they brainwashed him. My kids were told the truth-- sexual feelings are normal human things. Never ever did I shame my son or daughter for that matter. My advice was to do things in their private room and never feel bad. I'm so sorry, Jared.
Right! porn addiction might exist but it's nowhere as dangerous nor as prevalent as many churches seem to push it to be, and it's completely ignoring the underlying issues when there IS maladaptive behaviour around porn--often it's a result of loneliness, sexual repression or shame, abuse, etc.
I had female coworkers come onto me in the same way. Except in my situation I was the adult (22) and they were 16-17. My boss who was a consolor in a bishopric (not mine) tells me it's awesome. Also on his authority as bishopric member men aren't sexual harassed. I wanted nothing to do with any of it because it was not legal on my end. Many breaks got spent eating in my car instead of the breakroom
This one is so Fascinating and so sad the way humans are just a disappointment in so many ways and fail us over and over. Thanks for these awesome people and their bravery in sharing. When is part 2
Thank you for another FANTASTIC episode! I feel so deeply for Jared. The real mind-f*** of the shame cycle is how it forced him to prostrate and humiliate himself before his wife, in-laws and general congregants time and again. I cannot imagine what that must do to a husband's psyche or a wife's respect for him - especially since Ashley kept telling him to stop the cycle of subservience and knew in the back of her mind that Jared wasn't listening because, deep down, he couldn''t respect a woman's opinion. It's a miracle they're still together and testament to their relationship. This was spiritual abuse for sure, reminiscent of the most hideous of ginger oafs.
Kids will be kids?! As a teenager, my Mormon friend in So Cal admitted to me that while she was babysitting she had a young boy she was responsible for babysitting put his penis in a young girl's mouth, that she was also responsible for babysitting. WTH??!! The Kids told their parents on her, but there Never was Any Punishment for her actions. Friend now provides full-time day care in her home for decades in UT. When I reported it to UT Day care licensing services, they weren't interested because it happened outside UT. It was more important that my once friend adhere to other UT hygienic guidelines that she might get cited for, like paper towels instead of towels in the bathroom etc. NO ONE's protected in UT.
Ashley may not want to talk as much. But she needs to. I never ever saw what those body language people talk about until I saw this podcast. Ashely's blink rate is hugely rapid and no matter how close their chairs are the repression is real. I think if you interview a couple its either more balanced or just have one person on. (Not saying anything about who they are or what they are but you did say you want things to be equality) One of the most spontaneous things Ashley says is "the last two were adopted" and she clearly loves that part of their life. There is so much more to see here if she spoke more. LOL then Ashley has her moment and shows what an incredible human she is, never needing to bare her "guilt" to the Bishop. That is TRUE NORTH. Jared hit the literal jackpot with this woman and when she speaks up and out its beautiful.
I'm a gay man who left the Mormon church. Narcassist father was also my Bishop, then became 1st councelor in Stake Presidency. In order to prepare me for a mission, at 12 I was forced to give up on all sense of privacy. Never allowed to lock my door. made to report in before bathroom and showers so my dad could stand outside the door and talk with me to ensuer I wasn't touching myself. I was told that masturbation was 2nd to murder, and because I struggled to stop doing it, I was shamed and even made to wear coarse gloves while I slept in order to discourage touching myself. Then I'm sent to my preisthood interview with the Bishop(my dad) on Sunday and told that I can't help with the rest of my peers to pass the sacrament, and on top of that, I have to refuse it in front of the entire congregation when they offer it to me because I'm "unworthy." This happened nearly every week for years.
@@deadmanswife3625 I’d love to hear you elaborate on that Wendy. Another commenter thought you were survivor shaming me, but I’m honestly not even sure. Your comment is too short to tell. Are you calling me crazy? Are you calling Mormon church members crazy? Are you calling the Mormon Stories UA-cam channel crazy? Let’s have some dialogue.
I find it shameful that the church brings shame on people for natural, normal sexual thoughts and urges. There is a line that is crossed when those urges become "molestation", but it is just sad that people suffer so much over NORMAL human things.
Thank you Jared for sharing the heavy load you've carried all your life with us. Ask Jesus to to take it off you so He can deal with it and keep charge of it for you. And thank you Ashley for being so supportive of your man. We who struggle in the world gain strength from your story.
3:32:47 - That’s exactly what I said out loud, when Jared said that no one told him except his wife. She’s a woman, so he didn’t listen to her. It’s no joke. If you’re dealing with a.(typically older) man OR woman who doesn’t take your helpful advice, my recommendation is to get your husband or brother to tell them the same thing, so they can take it seriously. (Maybe record yourself telling them first, so you can shove back in their face later.) A LOT of people are like this, not just very religious people. It’s been standard societal practice to demean women’s opinions. It’s getting better now, but it’s still a problem.
At 3 I had no idea about sex, when I was SAed at 3, my spirit floated up to the ceiling in the corner. I watched her (my) long brown hair on the bed, her (my) tiny flowers 🌸 all over the handmade dress. I felt sorry for her (me) and all the pain she was going through. My mom let me (and later my 4 siblings) wander the neighborhood because she thought the world was safe. A child predator got a hold of me. 1969
@Jared82 Thank you for sharing. I too didn’t share, I didn’t have the vocabulary to even say what happened. So, don’t feel bad at 7 for not sharing your story. Glad your brother was old enough to share.
This hit so hard. So sorry this happened to you. So awful. I recently read that very young children in this situation disassociate in a way similar to protect their essential self. I hope your spirit self is still witnessing and protecting you. I can’t fathom people being so cruel to strangers esp children. I’m glad mormon stories listens and encourages healthy practices. I hope the church is watching.
@@exmohobobonobo The church is watching and literally doesn’t care. That man in 2022 who, it was reported in the papers began SAing all his kids at 6 weeks old. Two bishops were told. Both called the church hotline, it’s not manned by counselors, it’s manned by lawyers, who told both bishops to NOT call CPS. Push it under the rug. It finally came out when the kids were old enough to voice it and be their own advocates.
I grew up in the Unitarian church as a child through my high school graduation from 1966 through 1976 and remember the sex education lessons in Sunday School very well. It was helpful, but I will say a good friend of mine and I practiced after church sometimes.......I never felt guilty about it, and know that my understanding of my sexuality was healthy.
Jared brother! Thank you so much for sharing your story you are on the true hero's journey, the real one, 100%! Your story resonates so much with me and unearths many emotions that need healing yet. LOL @ the doggystyle comment... its so true though what horrible advice you can receive. I admire you very much and so happy God blessed you with Ashley. Grace and peace to you both!
How can you, as a parent, hear that your child has been sexually abused and then do nothing to help your child?! Why wasn’t he properly taken care of? I am trying not to hold judgment for his dad, but that to me, is such poor parenting.
His dad failed him, was his mom even privy to this abuse? The church sent the abuser on a mission but I hope they alerted whoever watches over them about what happened so it would not happen to other kids. Thank you, Margi, for recognizing the mother might’ve perhaps had some good qualities too. If she had five sons, she had five jobs.
one of my nephews molested his cousin, a niece from another sister. She was only a baby, and he was around sixteen. There was an incredible amount of sexual shaming in our family. He's married now... with kids, and they're both devout.
My experience was do not even think about girls, sex, or anything like unto it from birth through your mission. After my mission it was find a woman in the church as fast as you can, marry her and get her pregnant as fast as you can. After that the advice dried up
As a victim of sexual abuse myself, this is a very personal topic for me. Honestly, Jared's story sounds so much like my own, except that, at the time, I ended up feeling like I shouldn't reveal the identity of the perpetrator, thus making life easier for everyone except myself
I’ve been listening to Mormon Stories Podcast for years and not on UA-cam so I am going to comment. I’m always amazed that all these people confess every little thing to a non professional. So nuts!
Even for small amounts of sex abuse ,you are told to keep your mouth shut,family won’t believe you,so you learn to hide it and never speak,even my therapist told me to stay quite,very touchy subject.
It's funny how he mentioned all the missionaries he served with naming their daughters after Adelaide Australia because one of my best friends in the church, his dad named him Carson due to his having served in Carson City Nevada.
Ashley rocks! "Why would you even tell the bishop or want me to come along and complain about you for an hour?! It's got nothing to do with me!" 😂🤣 Couldn't have put it better myself! As far as gatekeeping, it takes a certain personality type. Some women (and men) would revel in the chance to 'babysit' or keep incessant tabs on their partner / friend / employee and meter out constant appraisal, judgement & 'punishment' to a fully grown adult. The power dynamic itself becomes the most pleasurable part of the 'relationship' for them, even if they have to go out of their way to manufacture it. They're usually not very attractive people, inwardly or outwardly - the latter probably informing the former. 🤡
Their story has so many similarities to the local sex abuse case here in Kasson, Minnesota where LDS Church leaders defended a registered sex offender in court. Thank you Jared and Ashley for your courage and vulnerability in sharing your stories!
What's gross is that these men made bishop are done so knowing they're going to be alone in a room with every single young man in the congregation gifting them the most uncomfortable moments of their lives.
What a terrible experience also with that young woman who groomed you, I don't know whether this is discussed later, but also imagine if Jared had physically prevented her from continuing, would she have accused him of assault???
Thanks for speaking about this. Many members of my family don’t believe a man can EVER, under any circumstances (even massive age difference), be sexually assaulted or raped by a female. It’s treated for comedy or even that it’s a good thing.
I was raped by a 41yr old woman when I was barely 14. Get this, two years later I’m in therapy for anger issues and I tell the therapist, an LDS therapist, that I’ve been angry ever since that moment and I can’t control my anger. The guy told me to confess to my bishop, which I did (he also told my bishop behind my back). I was penalized (informal probation, no sacrament/prayers for 6 months, very, very embarrassing) by my bishop and nothing was ever done to the woman.
I don’t ever speak about it because if i do, most people don’t think it should be a problem. My father who is dead, was fully TBM, still even years later used to bring up my sexual sin aka my rape as an example of the atonement.
I wish someone would finally hear me. I was a kid, I was raped and it seriously fucked me up, even today.
@@kellyreilly-robinson2130 Thank you! I really appreciate it.
I had a dad like that
I hear you and believe you too. There is no consent because a minor cannot give consent.❤I hope you find your own truth, acceptance and joy going forward.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. Even as a women and survivor of CSA and rape it makes me so angry that men are very rarely treated with the respect they should be and should be believed. It was only as an adult that I found out that the Vicar at the Church of England primary School (basically a state school but also partly paid for by the CofE) had been abusing the boys in my class and many other classes from ages 4 - 11. For some of them the abuse and rape carried on into their teens (sadly the boys who grow up in the church and still attended the Church the school was affiliated with their parents on Wednesdays and Sundays. I know for a while at least some of our class mates didn't believe the, now men, when they came forward. The Vicar was jailed, I can't remember how many years he got, but I do know it wasn't enough!
It's incredibly brave of you for sharing your story and I'm sure it will help many more people than you know ❤
this is heartbreaking- you can see this poor man processing some of this in real time. Especially where he's considering that his family failed him, because they had given so much authority to the church. Every episode with Margie is incredible, her humanity comes out of every pore. Bless you Margie.
This is breaking me. Thank you for having this episode. I was shamed and disfellowshipped at 16 for having premarital sex yet my molesters, who highly sexulized me at a very early age, got off scott free because they held the priesthood. God forbid their lives got ruined but my life...
I so appreciate the Jones for sharing their vulnerable and heart breaking story.
They excommunicate people for having pre marital sex, yet Joseph Smith was a child predator and stole other men’s wives.
Me, too!! I was shamed & cast out while my abusers walked free and unashamed.
@@wesliepowell5698 I hope you’ve left the Mormon cult.
Same
Omg! I was molested for 10 yrs (age 5-15) by my older brother. He also molested my younger sisters. Yet he was able to serve a full time mission. But when I messed up, I was disfellowshipped.
I never questioned any of it until I was in therapy in my late forties after a nervous breakdown. After many sessions she asked the question that changed my life, “ Do you think that you may be unduly influenced by your religion?”
Sincere question. What exactly is a nervous breakdown? Uncontrollable crying?
@@deadmanswife3625 I cannot answer for Dawn, but yes, uncontrollable crying without known cause was part of the nervous breakdown when I broke down. It can be less obvious externally, you could feel paralysed, you could get into your head and feel like you will die, or feel like you're in a pressure cooker, and people wouldn't even notice. You could start screaming, hyperventilating, feel and behave extremely restless, and so on. You could develop somatic symptoms like pain, digestive issues, migrane, etc. Nervous breakdown is not a medical term, it is quite unspecific, describes a rather short episode of unusually strong negative emotionality; but usually there is a deep, underlying reason for it, e.g., subjectively strong feelings of fear, grief, sadness, depression, anxiety, cognitive dissonance, stress, etc. that maybe are compartmentalised and not acknowledged until the break out. It could be for example physical, psychological, familial, relational, societal reasons which can be very specific to an individual person. Basically, during the breakdown, it is nearly impossible for oneself to take a step back and look at the causal problem, you get overwhelmed completely. There is no clear definition for it, so you will have to inquire specifically with a person to find out what their nervous breakdown was.
@@ninaschultz6922 ty🙏
@@deadmanswife3625 IMO mental breakdowns are relatively normal when someone can't face or work on their trauma and people that have to deny their true feelings and their true self when they operate from more of a false self they're bound to implode of course that's just my opinion
@@leahflower9924 thank you I appreciate your answer. I have a couple other thoughts I would like to hear your ideas on. Is a mental breakdown the same as a nervous breakdown? . And if you are feeling a lot of sadness so you cry would that be the appropriate response to face your sadness or not really? Thank you again for answering
Thank you Jared and Ashley for being so vulnerable and sharing your story ❤
I am not Mormon or LDS, - rather a recovering catholic and very unfamiliar with Mormonism. But I have to commend Mormon Stories for the honesty and the BRAVERY of your guests in talking about subjects that are uncomfortable for most all religions. Thank you for offering this platform
John got excommunicated for speaking out vocally for the underdogs. Mormon leaders don’t like it when people think for themselves.
@@katbos4995 I’ve been listening to MS - A LOT-and just heard John’s interview with Patrick Mason, so I’m getting the picture. Patrick did fine, possibly as expected, kind of defensive, John did great- he was excellent and seemed very sincere, and Margi wins as the one who once again, touched our hearts ❤️
@@MKConnecticut Do Catholics get excommunicated for speaking against tenants of the Catholic Church?
A lot of this is similar in the Catholic Church for sure!
@@sofie1065 the extremes are just not there. There's just not that many crazy Catholic clergy
Women rape victims are toast if their rapist is their husband. My daughter is divorcing her active LDS, member of the bishopric husband who was having sex with her when she was asleep on a sleeping medication and unaware of what was happening. He would send her pornographic texts the next day to tell her everything he'd done to her during the night. That's rape. It's literally defined in state law as rape. That's not all he was doing, of course. He was abusing her and the kids in multiple ways. His abusiveness had been reported to church leaders multiple times over the years. They put him in the bishopric. Our local LDS community showed up in court at the order of protection hearing to support the husband, including the sheriff who is active LDS. The church refuses to tell her if they will discipline him in any way. There is no support at all at any level as far as I can tell for booting his rapist butt right out of the church, even thought he admitted what he'd done in texts AND in a motion his own lawyer filed with the court. Can you say "corruption"? Everyone involved in this travesty is scum, in my opinion. I wonder if this would have been the outcome if, say, Dallin Oaks' daughter had been the victim? Or one of the other G.A.s? Anyone know a law firm with the guts to go after the church, law enforcement/prosecutors, the sheriff, the soon-to-be ex, the negligent church leaders abuse was reported to, witnesses who committed perjury, etc.? Because I'd seriously like to go after them all civilly.
I have now had extremely blunt conversations with two bishops and the stake president, and sent a copy of what I've told them to the area president and President Nelson. No response from Salt Lake, of course. Didn't expect any. "We oppose abuse" is such bunk. They literally call men they know to be abusive to leadership positions throughout the church. That's not opposing abuse. It's enabling it.
I am proud to say I am not Mormon. I think it would take multiple Lawyers to take this church or ward on. I wish there were a group of Lawyers out there that would help.
@@judygillespie3242 there are a number of law firms who take child abuse cases against the church. Finding one that will represent adult victims is a whole other issue. There's a whole line of thought that abuse is somehow not as reprehensible when it is against an adult. Don't get me started. Our culture is sick beyond belief.
Wow that’s awful so sorry she’s going through this 😢
Sue them. They don't understand anything else.
@@judygillespie3242 I know you mean it differently but when you use the word proud to not be Mormon all that means to me is your circumstances were different. I was born into it as were many others. I am respectfully asking you consider this 🙏 -Thank you bc I know no harm meant ❤️
I'm writing my doctoral thesis on LDS sexual abuse survivors. It takes an incredible amount of courage to come out so openly about this topic.
I listened to “Rachel’s” story today and couldn’t leave a comment. But hearing another story now… I was sexually abused by my brother (not intercourse) 6 decades ago. I will tell you - especially if you don’t know about sex at all, SOMETHING BREAKS!!!! When that happens something breaks. I spent YEARS abusing substances, promiscuity and more. I was only helped by doing MDMA therapy 10 years ago - I FINALLY had some peace. Being sexually abused stays with you- it’s crazy. Jared is correct - we ARE BROKEN
I hear you, Mary, when you don't learn about physical boundaries in family but learn to look at your own sexuality as sth transactional, you feel like something is broken inside. It made me feel for many years as if some kind of emotional limb had been amputated, I loathed my body and my heart, very hard to feel worthy of love from myself and others. So, I did the same you did to somehow cope the best I could, promiscuity and substance abuse, and today I feel lucky to be alive, it could have gone either way during decades of depression. For a kid or teenager, when you don't know sex and are sexualised, it throws you off track, it can only even take 5 min, one touch, and your childhood is gone and nobody can ever give it back to you ;( I am so super happy to read about your success with MDMA therapy, and wish you a wonderful life - I do not know you Mary, but I am so proud of you. Thank you so much for sharing.
Thank you for mentioning the MDMA therapy. I have just had it offered to me. I'm about to break, myself.
I went into psychology to figure out what was wrong with me and so much of psychology revolves around trauma one way or another, most so called disorders are just manifestations or symptoms from trauma
@@wesliepowell5698 go for the therapy, if you have someone trustworthy who is offering. I have heard good things and you deserve good things.
@@leahflower9924 word, I was shipped to first therapy at 15 with eating disorder
I couldn't even sleep after listening to this last night. So much of this resonated with me. The dogmas and secrecy of the LDS church and the way it has impacted me and my children is overwhelming. The inability of my parents to see outside their bubble and their blind obedience which made it impossible to ever have conversations about being human and navigating the world. My parents total trust in leaders who have no training to advise, encouraged their manipulations, the guilt and morality shaming which goes on and is completely endemic to my family. The fantasy standard of the perfect family shown to the public and the subsequent family lies, secrets, and belief there is only one right way, bending actual reality to fit this fictitious picture of perfection. My parents were operating from a base of fear about the outside world, so homeschooling, limited movies, reading, music restrictions and many conspiracy theories. The phrase "doubt your doubts" is now locked in my mind along with the perpetual instructions given not to think critically. I am so grateful to all of you for being so courageous in discussions about appropriate boundaries and expectations of a governing force and also providing resources for creating a psychologically healthy family. Heaven knows that if my parents had seen similar behaviors in any other church /org they would have been livid and taken action.
Something I just realized about why I love Mormon Stories so much is the length of the videos. For some of these people this is the first time they've had a truly in-depth conversation with someone about their life & how they came to be where they are today. AND it's with someone who completely validates their feelings! Makes me want to be in an episode just for therapeutic relief😂 y'all are doing amazing work😋
Jared, you were failed. You deserved better, and so did your child. I wish you and your family healing and comfort in the coming years.
Bs
@@Wake2bake
Oh, look ... It's another hateful TBM.
Well, aren't you just about as common as sand on the beach.
Thank you all for shining a light on these heartbreaking stories! We maintain a public database of LDS sexual abuse cases, and even though we have over 500 currently documented, we feel like it's just the tip of the iceberg. Whether a person is a faithful LDS member or an "exmo" or a "nevermo," I think most people agree that talking about these things in a transparent way is healthy and tends toward a reduction in abuse and more healing for victims/survivors.
@Floodlit What you are doing is simply amazing. I'm a never-mo. I've always known about the LDS church, and worked for a Mormon for a few years.
What peaked my interest was learning that a couple I knew had left the church. That was in 2019. 4 years later, we are really close. I had already been following MSP and have learned so much about the restrictions which drove my friends out.
I'm Catholic. Although there were no issues in my parish, the exposure of the abuse hit us really hard. To learn how the LDS church has handled the problem is sickening. They've learned nothing from the backlash against Catholicism. Sure, members left the church in their droves, but that brought about a huge change. There are strict rules about interacting with youth. There is a buddy system which ensures that all children are accompanied by a parent, or trusted adult, when coming into direct contact with a priest or Bishop. Slowly people are returning. I stepped aside but now go to weddings, baptisms, funerals, and all the holiday services. I love that. I even had my daughter baptised there.
The LDS church is like a grenade. The pin is nearly out, but the stubborn soldier clutching it wont let go. It will explode eventually and the results will be catastrophic.
Leaders and congregants need to open their eyes and ears to the truth. They cant keep limping around, pretending all is well, while the children suffer. They are already haemoraging members around the world, because of child SA and financial misconduct on a massive scale. They continue to place men & some women in positions of power over children, without doing due diligence. Not a single background check and allowing the abusers to meet with kids one-on-one.
I wish your organisation the very best in exposing the damage being done to Mormon children. You will succeed, because you have your priorities right.
@@elizabethgrogan8553 "The pin is nearly out, but the stubborn soldier clutching it wont let go." I'm saving that one. Thank you for your thoughts and insights here.
@@elizabethgrogan8553 I'm Catholic but currently taking a step back to really, for the first time, critically think. I'm a former youth minister of 15 years and have had so much safe environment training over the years, it's crazy. As I've thought about it over the last couple years, this thought has come up often: the same church that covered up sexual abuse by clergy and created an environment that breeds secrecy is the same church that then teaches us how to protect ourselves from them. Why not look at the deeper issues in the environment of the church?
It's heartbreaking.
@@hopejeffcoat1819 I’m baptized Catholic as well. Spotlight was an epiphany for many, although I had already walked away. As a teen, a priest SA me and I was so totally freaked out and told no one at the time. I’m 68 and it still appalls me. I got interested in Mormonism after following the Chad/Lori Daybell case- waiting for the LDS church to comment, disgusted by their silence
My cousins and I were sexually abused by a youth leader that now has been brought to justice however I have never been given any counseling
What a beautiful couple. I got a lump in my throat when Jared said his father was loving him the way he knew how. Wow. That speaks volumes to what a quality person he is.
@Jared82 looking forward to part 2! Thank you for sharing your story.
I feel the same
Go Margi
So much of this conversation is validating my own experiences as a seven year old sexually abused in the Mormon Chapel. Thank you for this conversation, it's helping me understand my confusion as a child and the ways the Church protect their institution, including my mother who dismissed me when I told her of the abuse and my father who admitted he counted the Church over me as his first priority, thus adding to my mental torment into adulthood.
I find it EXTREMELY DISTURBING to learn that Mormon children/teens are required to meet with their Bishop alone, behind closed doors and are questioned about any sexual experience (in detail).
OMG! His childhood was my childhood. This was so validating. Thank you for your courage. And Margie, you're a treasure to us and brilliant!
I think it’s cute that they’re leaning into each other and it shows that they truly support each other.❤
For all he has been through, he still places a lot of value in the outward things that Mormons are proud of. It really speaks to how hard to become untangled from Mormon values. God bless your journey.
I couldn’t help noticing their chairs pushed so close together and the caring, supportive body language. Lovely couple. Thank you for sharing your family with us.
I’m a minority but I felt the opposite. I felt that Ashley was very cold during this episode. Granted I have an hour left but she was very curt and without emotion. Maybe that’s just her personality but I didn’t pick up on an empathetic wife, especially when he spoke about the first time he masturbated when their first child was born she made a point that he did it while she was caring for their first child in the ICU in another city.
Now I don’t agree with the church and the addiction group for something as this but when he told Ashley she went to the bishop and she was upset more because it was his problem and it had nothing to do with her.
When they spoke of their courtship and marriage she just stated facts while he said it was a big time or a good time she said nothing leading me to feel she wasn’t excited to get married to him.
Again that’s just my interpretation and I could be way off base and my apologies if so but it just seems as if she’s not supportive in him telling his horrific experience from the start.
@downy1202 she's obviously a very private and soft spoken person. I would bet they have an extremely close relationship.
Wow! That was mind blowing for this non Mormon, non Christian, retired psychotherapist and mother. What convoluted, twisted suffering. How courageous you all are. Milton Erickson and Einstein have this quote attributed to both of them so I am not sure which one said it,"you cannot solve the problem at the level of the problem". The double, triple and quadruple binds are crazy making. How you emerged from this mire is a very human miracle.
Jared, this is powerful and heartbreaking. I’m so sorry for what you have been through. And Margi, you are invaluable. Thank you for your insight.
That idea of “sanctification through shame” feels so intensely familiar to me. Perfection was never within reach, but I *can* live in a perfect state of constant self-loathing.
True...I used to strive to be a perfectionist and when I realized I couldn't be perfect I obsessed over all my mistakes and then I just started self hating and I became the family F up go figure
There are so many critical themes and points made in this discussion. Thank you to all involved! As a survivor of child sexual abuse - one of my perpetrators was also an LDS babysitter - as well as a survivor of being brought up as a Mormon (not to mention all the insanity of what gets labeled as “addiction” in the LDS church), I can really appreciate this interview.
We have a KNOWN Pedo in our ward. I found him in the nursery when I picked up my 2yo. His wife was the Nursery Leader. I went to the Bishop, who was a Probation Officer, and he said he couldn’t interfere with the repentance process-. Longer story, but you get the gist. My daughter never went back. Not on my watch.
If he has been convicted, you may consider contacting the local police department and making a report. Most child SO's have terms in their release that would not allow them in a nursery anywhere, church or not.
I'm a born & raised Catholic in Riverside, CA. I had many LDS friends in high school (who are still dear friends now) as well as my aunt, uncle & cousins are LDS (except for the 2 cousins that have left the church). I remember that ward in Riverside west being super active. I used to want to go to their dances because it seemed like so much fun. 😂 And I loved hearing Jared talk about playing in the orange groves. That was definitely a thing.
I have been impacted by generational sexual abuse as well and have very similar experiences. Just a different church.
It's so interesting to me, as I deconstruct my own faith, how similar LDS and Catholic experiences are.
Which is why I am enthralled with Morman Stories. Thank you John & Margie!!! And thank you Jared & Ashley. Because of your bravery in sharing your story, others are able to heal just a bit more. I hope you are too. ❤
@Jared82 where did you go to high school? I went to Arlington.
There is such a thing as The Human Condition. Humans are weak individuals. Sexual urges can be strong and some people. I don't know why some people always going around trying to blame other people. Once you get it together start pulling yourself up worry about yourself God will judge
@@deadmanswife3625 your comments hold no value when you speak like a judgmental pharisee.
I am less than six minutes in .. I am impressed with Jared’s bravery and sensitivity. Yes, Jared, you are a good and worthy man.
Thank you very much for sharing your story Jared and Ashley! It resonates with so many that were raised with this same sexual shame.
Fantastic you guys are talking about normal thoughts, desires and actions so openly, whereas in the church such things are characterized as so taboo. Nice work!
So many Mormon families could relate to this interview! Thanks for sharing your story! Excited to hear the second part!
Just had a relative tell us he was abused on his mission by other missionaries and mission leaders demanded he not press charges and not ever speak of it again and left the abusing missionaries on their mission..After all these years and carrying that for decades..I speak out about lesser abuse that happened to me, basically a type of financial abuse and I believe part of extreme misogyny that was happening in my ward and stake and I constantly and consistantly get told I must be lying , no way it could be true or I had to have misunderstood as the general reaction from members..I can't even imagine the reaction he would likely get since they already silenced him years ago..The hurt happening ..will be curious to see if they too were gaslight and or demanded silence or unbelief..since it is the standard go to it seems
I understand this as being through every religion and every path of life. It's down to thwarted minds and evil practicing Individuals. Yes these people are here but they are everywhere you go. I like to think that there are more good people than bad around me. And that is not to put down the suffering of those who have fallen prey to these practices. Guess what I'm pointing out is it's not just the Mormon church that has these problems. I hope the friend you know has found someone in his life that will help him heal. I have a friend suffered child sexual abuse and he went onto meet a wo derful wife that helped him heal allowing g him to go on and make some good out of his life. Xxxx
@Maria Quinn saying "it's not just the Mormons" is a form of minimizing. So is moving immediately to "well, he can be healed, hope he found a good wife to heal him, I had a friend who went through something similar and he's fine." All of these are invalidating to the victim and they are designed to shut victims up and make it look as though victims are making a big deal out of nothing. These are shaming responses. They should never happen. They are also designed to absolve the church of any responsibility to act or to be accountable or to do anything constructive or appropriate. All of these responses make victims feel not seen, not heard, not valued, not respected, and not loved because they aren't when the focus is on explaining away and minimizing.
To put it in visceral terms, it would be like Christ walking up to the woman with an issue of blood for 12 years, looking at her, saying, "well, it's not so bad, Susie over there has had the same thing for 22 years, I hope you figure out how to deal with it," and walking away, leaving her still bleeding. This is EXACTLY what the church does to abuse survivors every single time it encounters them.
@@mariaquinn920 The problem is that the church members are not required reporters like a Doctor or a Teacher would be. And the general attitude and policies of the church around issues of sexual abuse was / is victim blaming. That is still taught today in the church. Behaviors that lead to not trusting ones own judgement in opposition to any "authorities" . And the idea of discernment that people have any discernment over what happens with others is false and damaging to victims of abuse. So many victims of sexual abuse by fellow members have been forced to continue to be in situations with their abusers because they were not believed, or the leaders created their own non therapeutic solutions, or could not discern the red flags and behaviors of abusive people. This has been the lived experience of many of us. So yes high numbers of abusers hid out in the church because it is a place they can get away with it undetected and undeterred.
@@phoenixrising5338 THIS
@Jared82 You're very welcome. I'm so sorry for what happened to you and your daughter. I appreciate your being willing to share your story and John having you on. I'm very glad to have a man speak about his experience. Men are too often overlooked when we talk about survivors' experiences. Your story is heart-rending in many ways; you deserved so much better. I hope that as more LDS survivors speak out, and say things must change, we can make a difference for coming generations.
These addiction groups are not safe. Untrained people are in positions of power and do not have the ability to discern when or if the people they are treating need professional help. Mormon "discernment" is dangerous. A few weeks ago a TBM I know told me they were working with an LDS addiction group. I am seriously concerned for all involved.
And they claim it is patterned after AA, but there is NO anonymity and no sponsor to call if they relapse. My brother did a mormon addiction program for drugs with devastating consequences when he relapsed. Very, very dangerous in so many ways. If someone you love is in a mormon "addiction program" run, don't walk, RUN with your loved one to a licensed professional. It could save a life.
What power? You have your own power exercise it
@@deadmanswife3625get lost. you aren't here to understand, just act like the devil.
I went to the women's group one time and saw how the wives were talking about password tricks and other ways to track your husband's online activity. I realized at that first meeting that I'd rather get divorced than have that kind of marriage. I never went back.
I am grateful for those coming forward and being willing to share their abuse (of all kinds) within their LDS families and LDS culture.
I thought all of my emotional trauma was a result of my ex-husband’s abuse. As I have now been going to therapy weekly and listening to these podcasts, I am having major realizations that my trauma is actually stemming from much earlier.
Thank you, all, for sharing your stories! I cannot doubt that you are helping so many others in their path to understanding and healing.
I’m at the 1:38:00 mark and I just want to say that I’ve seen these dynamics occur outside of the context of religion/church as well & I want thank you all for speaking about it. I’ve had to cut out a lot of family for protecting an abuser and seeing the legal process play out has been even more difficult as they have really dropped the ball. I wish these issues were dealt with in better ways… the abuser being painted as the victim is too common. All at the expense of the real victim to deal with it themselves. It’s so so heartbreaking
Exactly. But I would say people are always trying to blame someone. Once you find out then get yourself together take back your power and find your way in life
Being a neverMo from near where Jared served his mission in Australia, I'm pretty sure he would have heard the word "wanker" used in many, many contexts. The majority of the time, it is used to identify someone who is either doing something stupid, or are what we call "full of s*&t". You explain Mormonism to any aussie you meet in the street, they will literally tell you "what a load of crap".
Well done to Jared and Ashley for coming forward and presenting their story. It is a good warning for current TBM families on how the church will react to forms of abuse of it's members, by other members.
Thanks for sharing your story. I feel your pain. I was molested repeatedly by a Mormon neighbor when I was 10 - 11 years old. It has been a long journey and I still have not entirely healed. So much guilt is associated with my experience.
The support by the community for an abuser is similar to the support by family of an abusive spouse in a divorce! It’s very frightening for the other spouse and continues to play out for years.
1:18:00 Powerful, Margie! This is very true and important for Church members to know.
I have a passion for family law (aspiring attorney) and abuse victims. In the LDS Facebook groups I am a part of, I NEVER suggest women (or men) to go to their Bishops for counsel and guidance. There is NO point, and it will usually backfire anyways. Bishops are not trained to handle or counsel regarding abuse.
Sadly, even attorneys and judges DO NOT have proper training or experience with abuse. When you consider the corruption within our justice system, as well, these people holding power over families and making final judgements on them, ultimately hurts abuse victims as well.
41:34 there was a song called Godly Sorrow when I was a teen. I loved that song because I identified with it and it pulled at my heart. I believe this kind of thinking of shame and sorrow lead to my major depression.
and it went along with that god awful movie that had that one famous actor as the fiancé...
Thanks for discussing this as a man, and boy. We never get to hear men's victim stories. It's also similar to what I felt about these issues and an LDS youth and young women.
Wonderful guests and so important. Gracefully vulnerable with so much insight ❤
I stumbled across "Mormon Stories", and have just been shocked at the level of guilt and shame encouraged by this religion. I am a retired Psychiatric NP, ex-Catholic, now an Episcopalian. I thought Catholicism encouraged harmful, unecessary guilt r/t sex, but the Mormons have gone even further. Masturbation is normal and healthy 99% of the time for both males and females. Heavy guilt and shame as well as control are hallmarks of a cult. Now, stories of sexual abuse by leaders of Mormonism are emerging, just as they did in the Catholic church. So glad these brave people are speaking up about this and bringing it to light. Thank you.
🙄
I am learning so much from your channel. Keep up the excellent work.
Recovering Catholic. My high school GF was molested by the priest who led the folk mass (which she sang in). I was the person she informed, tearfully. Neither of our mothers would believe her. The priest ended up transferred to another state, where he was caught abusing 2 girls years later.
42:53 100%! The statement right before the time marker should be a TikTok video. I also felt that in order to be honest I needed to say everything that was in my heart that was on my mind. I had no boundaries and that has not served me well, even though I thought it did for a while because I felt honest and because I felt like it helped me make friends, but I wasn’t being good to myself by sharing all of my thoughts with people who didn’t burn my trust to know those thoughts. And feeling shame was just the consequence of telling the truth, and it was a sign that I had done the proper repentance step of confessing and repairing, and the shame was a motivator to never do it again. I don’t think that is a healthy kind of shame that I had. I think there are better ways to motivate for behavior changes.
I too remember Mormonism giving me the message that unless I shared every thought, I wasn’t being fully honest. It took until my child was in her 20s, who left the church before me, saying to me, “Mom, you don’t have to share every thought.” She learned boundaries and taught me.
I in turn taught my mom, who had panic if she didn’t share every thought, she didn’t feel she could pass a temple recommend interview “honest in all your dealings.”
40:00
41:20 “I accepted that shame was part of my existence. You show up, and you take the shame. You take the pain, because it was going to be the thing that would help you to progress.”
I remember as a teenager feeling like i needed to "confess" to my bishop that i had been abused (by an adult non member). So messed up but i had recieved messages that made me feel like i needed to 🤷
Watching this from the Uk as a non mormon, thankyou Jared and Ashley for sharing your experiences, the more we talk about this subject openly the better! John, predators will always be predators and there is no cure! It is absolutely the mormon church's culture at fault , that the predators go on with their lives and have and will abuse again. This is one of the problems of a secretive high controlled group calling itself a religion!
News flash. There will always be sin in the world they're always be murderers rapists thieves always always always. Once you wake up you take control of your own destiny One Foot In Front of the other and find your way in this world
One victim even if there is no recidive from the abusor is enough to denounce and punish. I never thought that the LDS church was on the same level as Jehovah Witnessed and scientology. Thank for the podcast. Very informative for an agnostic like me.
Oh hell no. No one is NOT going to tell me that I CAN'T say a prayer in church! Eff that!
It is amazing how guilt and shame can be used and exploited, even surroding a natural body function.
It's also amazing to contemplate the difference between what Joseph Smith allowed himself in the arena of sexuality and what is expected of young Mormons.
Thank you very much for sharing your story ❤
"Spotlight" is greatest story telling ever.
I'm a woman and was abused and raped as a child by my childminders husband and their 18 year old son. It took me till my early thirties to tell my mum, she was a single parent who returned to work with i was 4 (my dad left when i was 2) as she wanted a better future for us both and i am incredibly proud of her having watched her go from a clerk to a financial accountant all by herself she got zero colds support from my dad who had moved abroad don't no government help except £18 a week in child maintenance (which every family recieved per child no matter your circumstances back in the late 80's and early 90's. It took me so long to tell her as i didn't want her to feel guilty in anyway! I thought i had managed to come the abuse away in a box on the furthest recesses of my mind. I still had nightmares about it but overall, somehow I had managed to hide it. Until last year when it really came to the forefront. I had suffered two severe acute strokes and could not use my left arm, couldn't walk because my left foot was just dragging behind me, i didn't know what was going on with me and had already been sent home from hospital 5/6 times after have no scans and with "classic" stroke symptoms beginning told the symptoms were caused by stress or my migraines i was actually told twice that i "definitely" not had a stroke by two different doctors. Because i couldn't walk i had to have someone take me to the toilet in a wheelchair and every other time i needed this help either my mum or partner or nurse would wheel me into the toilet and then leave as i could get from the wheelchair to the toilet and wash my hands, pull down and pull up my jogging bottoms with one hand etc... by this time was different it was a male nurse who wheeled me into the toilet and insured of leaving her locked the door and I'm sure you can guess what happened next. I was actually dying by this point but didn't know but felt extremely unwell and had known "something" was very wrong and i had felt like i was screaming underwater. The next time i needed the toilet i tried to walk on my own as i couldn't see a female nurse and i blacked out bounced off the wall and straight into Someone else's trolley, i came to half way towards hitting the ground. My rapist then came running towards me and grabbed me under my arms and grabbed my boobs. The guy whose trolley i had fallen into shouted at the rapist to get off of me as did a Dr that appeared. I was chucked in the wheelchair and then thrown back on the trolley! Seriously hurt. My partner is a police officer and was working and i had sent my mum home because she was so tired and my partner would be able to be with me at around 4am. All this happened before 2am. I finally saw a female nurse and told her what had happened, she put her arm around me and told me she wouldn't let the rapist near me. She was taking me to the toilet in the wheelchair and the reality ran after her and started to try and yank the chair out of her hands eventually actually banding to, she shouted at him that I asked for a female, he tried to wheel me into the toilet again and stuck my god leg out do he couldn't wheel me wheel me back in the. The nurse retained control of the chair and took me to a different toilet. Because of the risk of me falling she did make me leave the door unlocked but with her standing right outside the door, the rapist tried to open the toilet door multiple times. When she took me back she found the charge nurse and helped me tell him what had happened, he believed me without missing a beat, which looking back made me wonder if he had suspicions about the rapist already. My partner turned up at around 4am and called it in and a detective came and spoke to me in a private room. This is still on going as well as a medical negligence case against the hospital who f'ed up spectacularly nearly killing me twice.
What happened in that toilet brought all the trauma and distress i had been hiding for years back up. I was 36 when all this happened. I am still fighting to get mental health help! Which is crazy bit boo unheard of especially in the UK right now. Even a 10 year old child with a terminal heart condition, who's been through two heart transplants, mother could get her dying soon mental health help! When dying children can't any help there is a serious problem. If i was offered help tomorrow but knew there was a child waiting i world tell them to help that child first, sadly it doesn't work like that.
The Jones are amazing and so brave and they've been through so much heartbreak, they are incredible. As are John and Margie for giving people a platform that is safe, no judgement with care, kindness and understanding, you two are also an amazing couple and people on your own right, you can just tell Margie is a brightshining light who cares deeply and wholeheartedly ❤❤❤
As a fellow child SA survivor who didn’t grow up in any sort of religion at all, I ALWAYS felt the need to confess, to tell on my self. I think some of that is a trauma response.
Thank you for sharing your story. Its already so impactful, and I suspect its about to become even more so. Again, thank you.
This was heart breaking to watch
Of course Utah doesn't make it a legality to report known child abuse when in a religious setting. The laws need to change so covering up abuse in a religious setting is also a crime
It’s wild to me that in Mormonism “avoiding even the appearance of evil” is such a hard hitter, but when JS married underaged GIRLS, giving the appearance of shmedapelia (if we’re sticking to the rhetoric that grape didn’t occur during those marriages) it’s totally accepted. But drinking Diet Pepsi looks bad? Lmaooo what?!
Yes! And that big bad coffee! Chad and Lori killing children …all ok for them… but hard no on a coffee, coke or heaven forbid, a glass of wine. Strange group.
Sounds like some churches cults institutions or whatever you wanna call them want to own your mind and your body but slavery is illegal so they unofficially enslave you
As an Aussie - ..... yep, that's us. on the whole we speak our mind, cut through the crap, and appreciate straighforwardness. 🙃🙂
I am an LDS abuse survivor. My bishop was made aware of the abuse that was happening in our home, and he decided to keep it a secret from my parents and the authorities. His choice to keep it a secret led to me and a couple of my other siblings being abused. He could have prevented it if he had done the right thing. I know other church members that were dealing with sexual abuse in their homes, too, and the boys were never given the help that they needed. The abuse was always covered up and dealt with quietly, which often just led to more abuse. My bishop made the decision to keep the abuse in my family a secret because, at the time, my first abuser was still on his mission. The bishop felt that it would be too embarrassing to bring home a missionary early for sexual abuse charges. My abuser got home from his mission, and then the bishop immediately found him and his girlfriend worthy of being married in the temple. My abuser's first wife was never informed that she was marrying an abusive man. This, of course, led to years of abuse within their marriage too. As a survivor of abuse and cover-up in the church, it has always been extremely isolating and lonely. The mishandling of this abuse was one of the main reasons I left the church when I was young. I love seeing other members come out and share their stories. I believe that the church's structure allows for the breeding ground for abusers and abusive behavior to thrive. More members need to talk about it. Keeping it a secret makes it feel like abuse in the church is not any more of a problem than within any other organization. I don't believe that. I think the rate of abuse is extremely high within the Mormon church and Mormon families.
when Jared mentions that his abuser was still allowed to go on his mission so it made him feel like his abuse must not have been a big deal... I felt the exact same way as a child. Last year my father and I were talking about all the abuse in the family and I had mentioned that it had been completely normalized for me. my father couldn't understand how that was possible. I was 4 when I started being abused. I was abused throughout my entire childhood. Here are men that are now being found worthy to go on their missions, given the priesthood, and married in the temple... my abuse was not a big deal to the church. I was 8 when my first abuser came home on his mission and then immediately got married. At 8 I thought that maybe it was just normal for boys to practice these things with their siblings so that they were ready for their marriage.
The merge of family and church is a massive loss. Despite everything that happened in my childhood, my parents are still TBM members. All of these stories of abuse cover-ups keep coming out, and I was recently sharing them with my parents. I was so upset about the Arizona supreme court ruling recently that said church leaders have the right to hide abuse they learn about in private confessional. My parents told me that they feel that it is the church's right to hide abuse if the state law allows for it. My parents side with an organization that allows for abuse to thrive within its walls and the homes of its members. My parents side with an organization that did nothing to stop me from being abused. My family has been destroyed by what the church did. The church stole everything from me, including my parents and most of my siblings.
This Is Jared, Im so sorry to hear of your experience. I hope you have found peace and happiness and a community that supports you. I discovered that many of my family and friends while they know that the abuse is wrong choose to make apologies in order to preserve their world view and feelings of safety. I believe Its part of their trauma response / avoidance. It doesn’t mean they don’t love me but I also do not accept it. I will continue to push for change to call out the church and those who protect it every opportunity I get. I have had enough shame for multiple lifetimes and have decided not to show up that way for myself anymore. I have 0 advice for anyone on how they should deal with their own abuse but I have tons of love and empathy for them and think they should do whatever makes them happy and keeps them healthy and safe! Sending love your way!
@user-kj3nh4bt3b Thanks Jared, I appreciate the love. I'm really sorry for all you endured too. Thank you for being brave and strong enough to speak out and fight for change.
Thank you for this hoonesty/transparency. Not that crappy stuff like this hasn't happened in Presbyterian or Baptist or Aetheist homes. This stuff happened alot in the 70s-90s. What I think is DANGEROUS about the LDS church....is the missione stuff and the idea that a TEENAGER can think he is a Priest or in the Priesthood?
The other dangerous thing is the culture of shaming around sexual abuse victims and pressure to forgive the abuser, which is common everywhere but especially prevalent in high-demand groups, especially (but not limited to) religious ones. And yes, the concept of priesthood is particularly bad--it means deference to a group of unqualified people solely on the basis of their gender and often their wealth.
Oh, good mercy....He told his in-laws?....he had to "confess" as a grown man to his bishop? Ridiculous! People are human....end of story. Marital issues are nobody else's business.
I think Jared NEVER had an ''addiction'' they brainwashed him.
My kids were told the truth-- sexual feelings are normal human things. Never ever did I shame my son or daughter for that matter. My advice was to do things in their private room and never feel bad. I'm so sorry, Jared.
Right! porn addiction might exist but it's nowhere as dangerous nor as prevalent as many churches seem to push it to be, and it's completely ignoring the underlying issues when there IS maladaptive behaviour around porn--often it's a result of loneliness, sexual repression or shame, abuse, etc.
My heart is breaking…
I had female coworkers come onto me in the same way. Except in my situation I was the adult (22) and they were 16-17. My boss who was a consolor in a bishopric (not mine) tells me it's awesome. Also on his authority as bishopric member men aren't sexual harassed. I wanted nothing to do with any of it because it was not legal on my end. Many breaks got spent eating in my car instead of the breakroom
This one is so Fascinating and so sad the way humans are just a disappointment in so many ways and fail us over and over. Thanks for these awesome people and their bravery in sharing. When is part 2
Thank you for another FANTASTIC episode! I feel so deeply for Jared. The real mind-f*** of the shame cycle is how it forced him to prostrate and humiliate himself before his wife, in-laws and general congregants time and again. I cannot imagine what that must do to a husband's psyche or a wife's respect for him - especially since Ashley kept telling him to stop the cycle of subservience and knew in the back of her mind that Jared wasn't listening because, deep down, he couldn''t respect a woman's opinion. It's a miracle they're still together and testament to their relationship. This was spiritual abuse for sure, reminiscent of the most hideous of ginger oafs.
Kids will be kids?! As a teenager, my Mormon friend in So Cal admitted to me that while she was babysitting she had a young boy she was responsible for babysitting put his penis in a young girl's mouth, that she was also responsible for babysitting. WTH??!! The Kids told their parents on her, but there Never was Any Punishment for her actions. Friend now provides full-time day care in her home for decades in UT. When I reported it to UT Day care licensing services, they weren't interested because it happened outside UT. It was more important that my once friend adhere to other UT hygienic guidelines that she might get cited for, like paper towels instead of towels in the bathroom etc. NO ONE's protected in UT.
Ashley may not want to talk as much. But she needs to. I never ever saw what those body language people talk about until I saw this podcast. Ashely's blink rate is hugely rapid and no matter how close their chairs are the repression is real. I think if you interview a couple its either more balanced or just have one person on. (Not saying anything about who they are or what they are but you did say you want things to be equality) One of the most spontaneous things Ashley says is "the last two were adopted" and she clearly loves that part of their life. There is so much more to see here if she spoke more. LOL then Ashley has her moment and shows what an incredible human she is, never needing to bare her "guilt" to the Bishop. That is TRUE NORTH. Jared hit the literal jackpot with this woman and when she speaks up and out its beautiful.
Thank you for your thoughts. You should watch the second episode Ashley speaks up much more in that one. But yes she is amazing!
I will for sure. sometimes I have to laugh at my grandma ass comments. I get so serious@@JaredSJones82
I'm a gay man who left the Mormon church. Narcassist father was also my Bishop, then became 1st councelor in Stake Presidency. In order to prepare me for a mission, at 12 I was forced to give up on all sense of privacy. Never allowed to lock my door. made to report in before bathroom and showers so my dad could stand outside the door and talk with me to ensuer I wasn't touching myself. I was told that masturbation was 2nd to murder, and because I struggled to stop doing it, I was shamed and even made to wear coarse gloves while I slept in order to discourage touching myself. Then I'm sent to my preisthood interview with the Bishop(my dad) on Sunday and told that I can't help with the rest of my peers to pass the sacrament, and on top of that, I have to refuse it in front of the entire congregation when they offer it to me because I'm "unworthy." This happened nearly every week for years.
Y'all cray
@@deadmanswife3625you're the crazy one here, survivor shaming when you have no idea.
@Jared82 Thank you so much Jared. I really appreciate it.
@@deadmanswife3625 I’d love to hear you elaborate on that Wendy. Another commenter thought you were survivor shaming me, but I’m honestly not even sure. Your comment is too short to tell. Are you calling me crazy? Are you calling Mormon church members crazy? Are you calling the Mormon Stories UA-cam channel crazy? Let’s have some dialogue.
@@chlyri Thanx for sticking up for me. 👍🏻
I've lost count of how many times I've said WTH while listening to this.
I find it shameful that the church brings shame on people for natural, normal sexual thoughts and urges. There is a line that is crossed when those urges become "molestation", but it is just sad that people suffer so much over NORMAL human things.
Thank you for the truth of this.
Thank you Jared for sharing the heavy load you've carried all your life with us. Ask Jesus to to take it off you so He can deal with it and keep charge of it for you. And thank you Ashley for being so supportive of your man. We who struggle in the world gain strength from your story.
3:32:47 - That’s exactly what I said out loud, when Jared said that no one told him except his wife. She’s a woman, so he didn’t listen to her. It’s no joke.
If you’re dealing with a.(typically older) man OR woman who doesn’t take your helpful advice, my recommendation is to get your husband or brother to tell them the same thing, so they can take it seriously. (Maybe record yourself telling them first, so you can shove back in their face later.) A LOT of people are like this, not just very religious people. It’s been standard societal practice to demean women’s opinions. It’s getting better now, but it’s still a problem.
At 3 I had no idea about sex, when I was SAed at 3, my spirit floated up to the ceiling in the corner. I watched her (my) long brown hair on the bed, her (my) tiny flowers 🌸 all over the handmade dress. I felt sorry for her (me) and all the pain she was going through.
My mom let me (and later my 4 siblings) wander the neighborhood because she thought the world was safe. A child predator got a hold of me.
1969
@Jared82 Thank you for sharing. I too didn’t share, I didn’t have the vocabulary to even say what happened. So, don’t feel bad at 7 for not sharing your story. Glad your brother was old enough to share.
This hit so hard. So sorry this happened to you. So awful. I recently read that very young children in this situation disassociate in a way similar to protect their essential self. I hope your spirit self is still witnessing and protecting you.
I can’t fathom people being so cruel to strangers esp children.
I’m glad mormon stories listens and encourages healthy practices. I hope the church is watching.
@@exmohobobonobo The church is watching and literally doesn’t care. That man in 2022 who, it was reported in the papers began SAing all his kids at 6 weeks old. Two bishops were told. Both called the church hotline, it’s not manned by counselors, it’s manned by lawyers, who told both bishops to NOT call CPS. Push it under the rug. It finally came out when the kids were old enough to voice it and be their own advocates.
My eyes always spaced out & I dissociated up to the corner of the room I was in every time I had sex my whole life long...
@@wesliepowell5698 I’m so sorry 😞
It is absolutely wild to me that bishops are calling people addicts for having a wank once a week. I'm blown away.
Sometimes even once every three weeks
I grew up in the Unitarian church as a child through my high school graduation from 1966 through 1976 and remember the sex education lessons in Sunday School very well. It was helpful, but I will say a good friend of mine and I practiced after church sometimes.......I never felt guilty about it, and know that my understanding of my sexuality was healthy.
Right On Margie!!!
I'm glad he wasn't referred to Jodi Hildebrandt for addiction therapy!
The church has too much focus on Sexuality.
Jared brother! Thank you so much for sharing your story you are on the true hero's journey, the real one, 100%! Your story resonates so much with me and unearths many emotions that need healing yet. LOL @ the doggystyle comment... its so true though what horrible advice you can receive.
I admire you very much and so happy God blessed you with Ashley. Grace and peace to you both!
How can you, as a parent, hear that your child has been sexually abused and then do nothing to help your child?! Why wasn’t he properly taken care of? I am trying not to hold judgment for his dad, but that to me, is such poor parenting.
His dad failed him, was his mom even privy to this abuse? The church sent the abuser on a mission but I hope they alerted whoever watches over them about what happened so it would not happen to other kids.
Thank you, Margi, for recognizing the mother might’ve perhaps had some good qualities too. If she had five sons, she had five jobs.
Jared: your last disclosure! Thank you for saying that out loud.
one of my nephews molested his cousin, a niece from another sister. She was only a baby, and he was around sixteen. There was an incredible amount of sexual shaming in our family. He's married now... with kids, and they're both devout.
@Jdiddy1982I want to believe that he repented completely, he served his time for it. I want to, but can't
My experience was do not even think about girls, sex, or anything like unto it from birth through your mission. After my mission it was find a woman in the church as fast as you can, marry her and get her pregnant as fast as you can. After that the advice dried up
As a victim of sexual abuse myself, this is a very personal topic for me.
Honestly, Jared's story sounds so much like my own, except that, at the time, I ended up feeling like I shouldn't reveal the identity of the perpetrator, thus making life easier for everyone except myself
@Jared82 Nowadays, I've pretty much moved past all of it but it was a long and painful journey
I’ve been listening to Mormon Stories Podcast for years and not on UA-cam so I am going to comment. I’m always amazed that all these people confess every little thing to a non professional. So nuts!
Even for small amounts of sex abuse ,you are told to keep your mouth shut,family won’t believe you,so you learn to hide it and never speak,even my therapist told me to stay quite,very touchy subject.
m
Margi is literally a balm on my heart
Thank you. Watching from Alaska.
Such an awful story of deliberate abuse.
It's funny how he mentioned all the missionaries he served with naming their daughters after Adelaide Australia because one of my best friends in the church, his dad named him Carson due to his having served in Carson City Nevada.
Margi...I MUST have your make-up/skin care routine. You always look flawless.
Please tell us, Margi 💕❤️
Ashley rocks! "Why would you even tell the bishop or want me to come along and complain about you for an hour?! It's got nothing to do with me!" 😂🤣 Couldn't have put it better myself!
As far as gatekeeping, it takes a certain personality type. Some women (and men) would revel in the chance to 'babysit' or keep incessant tabs on their partner / friend / employee and meter out constant appraisal, judgement & 'punishment' to a fully grown adult. The power dynamic itself becomes the most pleasurable part of the 'relationship' for them, even if they have to go out of their way to manufacture it. They're usually not very attractive people, inwardly or outwardly - the latter probably informing the former. 🤡
Their story has so many similarities to the local sex abuse case here in Kasson, Minnesota where LDS Church leaders defended a registered sex offender in court. Thank you Jared and Ashley for your courage and vulnerability in sharing your stories!
OMG! That is astounding! Blatant disregard for the victim(s).
What's gross is that these men made bishop are done so knowing they're going to be alone in a room with every single young man in the congregation gifting them the most uncomfortable moments of their lives.
The stake he grew up in was one of my mission areas in the mid 80's
What a terrible experience also with that young woman who groomed you, I don't know whether this is discussed later, but also imagine if Jared had physically prevented her from continuing, would she have accused him of assault???