Vehicle to Grid - The Complete Installation Story
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- The complete installation story for the first 62kWh Nissan Leaf to be connected to the UK National Grid. Worcester, United Kingdom.
Teams from Kier, Western Power, Kaluza and OVO Energy came together seamlessly to make this a remarkably smooth installation - especially given that our electricity supply had to be disconnected from our neighbour before work on the V2G installation could commence.
V2G Trial Results WEBINAR
In March, 2021 an online webinar was held where all aspects of this trial were discussed by the project heads of all the companies involved. The whole thing runs for a little over 2 hours, but if you are serious about finding out all the details and results from the world's largest V2G test, the video is here:
• Learnings from the wor...
A production of the Electric Automobile Association (ElectrAA). Visit www.electraa.org.uk.
Very interesting
And as a blind subscriber I’d like to commend you on the excellent dialogue overlay thanks very much
Cheers
Hi, Verne,
Thank you for your kind comment. I taught music to blind pupils at New College Worcester, so your comments make me particularly pleased.
I am glad you found the video interesting. Thank you for watching and taking the time to write.
Cheers,
Sheila.
What an absolutely brilliant video. Thank you so much for taking the time to film / edit / write it, and for doing it so concisely and clearly.
Thank you, Tom, for your kind words. The next two episodes are now out, too.
Very interesting, the workmen seemed so competent! You have a very nice presentation style, kudos.
All the workmen were brilliant and we were impressed with how smoothly it all came together.
Thank you for your kind comments and thank you for watching and commenting.
Sheila.
This is the future. Great video and commitment.
She is my favorite UA-camr now
Ha Ha. Thank you for watching. 😃
Wow! You’re the first one I’ve seen got it complete. Another of my subscriptions is waiting for the install. I’ve definitely subbed!
Thank you very informative
Thank you for watching and your kind comment.
So cool to see the effort you took to make this video!
Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment, Elmer.
Very impressed by your presentation skills, editing and shooting, apart from being highly informative. "80A 3 phase in 6 inches of water and Wellie boots". Brilliant :)
Thank you for watching and your kind comments.
Muito bom esse tipo de conteúdo, parabéns.
Obrigado por assistir e por seus gentis comentários. Fico feliz que você esteja gostando de nossos vídeos.
Sheila.
Well presented
Thank you and thank you for watching.
Useful and helpful, thanks. Also a very professional and relatable presentation.
excellent video, can't wait for the next update!!
The next one will probably be in November when we will have two complete years of V2G to report on. It will also mark the end of our two year trial period. By that time we may also have some information about what happens next! We are hoping we might join in with Indra's latest plan to test out "Load Balancing" a system whereby we will try not to take any power from the grid at all.. :-) tinyurl.com/V2Hgraphic
Thank you for watching and commenting.
Just seen this video, thanks for the detail as I've just been approved for the scheme and await an installation date this is very useful to know. Look forward to the update👍
We're editing the follow-up as I write this - quite a task as you will see! We're aiming for a premiere this evening, but if we miss that it will be out tomorrow for certain. Thank you for your interest.
Looking forward to next episode!
Out now if you haven't seen it yet.
This is very neat. I love it, would be nice to see for ccs type that could have that same feature. Very impressive.
Indra (the company that designed and manufactured the V2G charger we use) believe the updated CCS protocols and electronics design that will allow bi-directional charge transfer (i.e. V2G) should become available in the 2025-2026 timeframe.
It will then be up to the manufacturers to implement it in new cars manufactured after that date.
Thank you for watching.
Great👍🏻🔋
Awesome!!!
Thanks for sharing, very interesting!
Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment. :-)
Well done! 👍
Thank you! And thanks for watching. 👍
Wow Very Informative, i'm on the list to have mine fitted at least i know what to expect. Thankyou
Hopefully, you will be able to do without the first two days. :-)
Could you please do a video breaking down the cost of purchase and installation as this is something I'd love to do. Thanks love the video
Hi, James,
The simple answer is no, we didn't pay for it. Our installation was paid for by a government grant as part of a V2G trial involving 330 households across the UK.
If we had had to pay, being 'pensioners', I doubt we could have afforded it. Costs will tumble of course as volumes increase, but bearing in mind the earthworks we had to have done, you can probably guess the sort of costs that could be involved.
Thank you for watching. Episode 4 will be out later this week - "Three years with the Leaf"
Look forward for your next video- may I know if ovo covered the cost of grounds work & all the rest of the cabling work. Or do you had to contribute to it. Cheers
We did not pay for the work. Had we done so, we probably could not have afforded it to be honest! A government grant to test out V2G was the funding behind the entire project. As I understand it, there is still room for another 800 or so people to get on board.
Superb and informative video, Thank you! Only question I have is why did they only install 80A ?
The cable they installed is capable of carrying 100 amps, but an 80 Amp company fuse is the standard installation. Basically, it's plenty for our household usage.
80 Amps at 240 volts is 19kW so we could in fact have the car on charge and be using the washing machine and tumble drier all at the same time. I guess, should we ever need more, the fuse could be uprated, but we don't see a need for it, certainly at the moment.
From 2025 new houses built in the UK will not be allowed gas heating or cooking, so there may need to be a general rethink at that point. Certainly, solar panels and heat pump heating will be a great help.
(We think it should be the law and mandatory that all new houses should have at least 4kW of solar panels and all new factories and commercial premises should have as many as the roof space will allow!)
Thank you for watching.
Where to buy wallbox V2G with chademo? For UE buyer's
Excellent quality video. OVO should use this in their promotions :-)
One question: In the closing shots it looked like you had a second charger that was also powered on. I kept my old charger but I can only power up that or the V2G charger. Are your's both powered up at the same time?
We asked specifically if we could keep our Type 2. Mainly as a backup but also for visiting EV drivers with BMW I3s, Teslas, etc who would use the Type 2. They are both powered at the same time and theoretically, we could have two vehicles on charge, but we promised we would only use one at a time!
They may have fitted a selector switch to prevent you going over your max demand?
@@ashleypritchardevans If you watch at this point: ua-cam.com/video/-h_5QHUOQ1Q/v-deo.html You can see both are powered on. OVO just asked us not to use both at the same time. And of course, we will be certain to abide by that. (Not sarcasm.) :-)
@@ElectrAA Hi, think there's a little confusion. I was replying to Ybe EV's comment. If he can only power on one device at a time, he will have a selector switch in place.
Very good video, thanks for sharing! I was wondering who had to pay for these holes on the street. Did you have to? Can you talk about installation costs and the expected payback time?
Sorry, I just saw you already answered that in the comments below! Thanks!
Great video. Does it have a fan running to cool it when converting power and if so is it noisy?
Hi, Tony,
There is a fan in the unit, yes. When one reboots the unit, it does come on for a few seconds just to check itself out and it does make a bit of noise, but we have never heard it come on whilst in use. I guess if it was charging or exporting at 6kW in full, hot, mid-summer sunshine it might come on, but we've not noticed it yet. Maybe that's because we can't hear it from inside the house, which I guess also answers your question but in a different way.
Thank you for watching and commenting.
Sheila.
Thanks for the videos. Firstly, I am surprised by some of the negative comments early on. Secondly, can I ask how you managed to get on a scheme for vehicle to grid including the equipment. I have a new leaf arriving before Xmas and was thinking of getting a Tesla power wall 2 to store the energy from our solar panels, but then came across V2G and thought I could save 7K and simply use my car batteries instead. I have just moved to octopus energy and will use their agile electric, but they are also piloting V2G in the south, unfortunately I live in staffs, so not covered by current pilot. If there is a way to get V2G elsewhere then I would be really interested. Thanks in advance.
Thank you for watching and your questions. We're not sure we remember very many negative comments early on.
The OVO scheme has now stopped accepting new households onto their trial. We know of the Octopus scheme in Kent and East Sussex but sadly, we don't know of any trials taking place in your area.
We considered a Powerwall type of battery even before we had our first Leaf in 2014, but the sums did not add up for us at that time. Later, we decided V2G was a better solution for us when the opportunity arose. As mentioned in previous comments, we did not pay for our installation; it was done as part of the government-funded trial scheme that OVO, Kaluza, and Indra masterminded.
We suggest you do the maths to see if a Powerwall would help you and be financially beneficial. In the meantime, make sure your charger is a smart charger. (You can't claim the government grant to help with installation costs now unless it is a smart charger.) Check out the deals available to you as an EV owner from the various electricity suppliers serving your area.
Good luck with your new car - you will love it!
Do both the Smart AC and V2G charger have separate ethernet connections?
No. We call the wall-mounted unit a "charger" for convenience but actually, the unit consists of both an Inverter and a rectifier.
Both are combined in the same case and have a single ethernet connection to the internet and thus to the Kaluza App which manages both charging and exporting to our home and the grid.
Thank you for watching.
I’d be really interested to understand the tariffs....
I did enquire some time ago but for some reason I think I’m ineligible due to the fact I have larger than 4kWh solar system and Tesla Powerwall!
I now have a 40kWh e-NV200 and so would be really interested in this.
Also I don’t suppose there is any capability for you to use V2H i.e. energy from car to powe home?
Hi, NIck,
The tariffs are really simple because it's one of the conditions of having V2G is that we have to be on a flat-rate tariff. We pay 14p per kWh at any time of the day or night and we get paid 26p per kWh when we are exporting to the grid. So far, it seems to us we're getting free travel unless we have to charge away from home and we are making about a pound per day profit - when the system is working properly; it did for the first five weeks or so, since when, frankly, it's been quite -flaky.
I would not know why you may or may not be eligible for V2G - you would have to talk to OVO about that.
Re V2H, in essence, we are doing Vehicle to Home in the evenings because even with the lights and TV on - all the usual evening stuff - we are still exporting usually over 2kW to the grid. I.e., the car is outputting 3.5kW, we're using maybe 1 or 1.5 and the rest is going to the grid.
I suspect, however, you mean can we run the house during a power cut? (Like this: ua-cam.com/video/x78XGElU2I0/v-deo.html )
The answer is not without further switching to isolate us from the grid and both the V2G and our solar panels inverter having software changes. There are rules about what is known as "islanding". This is a situation where, because we have solar and V2G, if there was to be a power cut we would be an island of power in a sea of none. Firstly, our meagre generation would be trying to supply the entire region - up to our nearest substation. That's not going to happen! Secondly, Islanding also poses dangers to people working to restore power because they would not be expecting power on a line they would assume to be dead. All solar and V2G systems have anti-islanding circuits (i.e. if the mains fails both generation and export instantly also stops) unless you have extra automatic switching added to isolate you totally from the grid until power returns.
I hope this helps. Speak with OVO, Kaluza or Indra to learn more.
SB.
Hi thanks for the lengthy and really helpful reply... I think for me the killer feature is in addition to exporting to grid, is being able to use the energy in the car for powering the home... Does this only happen if the car is exporting to the grid or does it automatically happen if you plug the car in but there is no demand from the grid? And what happens overnight when the car is charging, I assume that it’s one way and so can’t be used by the home at this point? I know V2H isn’t what the trial is about, but if what you stay is right, the car battery becomes an asset for the home in the same way as my Tesla Powerwall does. I appreciate the replies...
@@uknick Hi Nick, so sorry, only just seen your add-on question! My apologies. Electricity from the car is only used by the house if V2G happens to be working to export to the grid at the time. We have no control over this, it's OVO energy who ultimately control this. Overnight, when the car is charging, it's charging! So no, it can't power the house at this time. Finally, yes, you are right, the car battery is an asset, but the V2G system is designed firstly to help the grid and secondly, to make us a little bit of money. Thankfully, we don't have the many tornado, tsunami and earthquake-induced power outages the Japanese suffer from. Over there, the ability to run the house for a couple of days every so often is a huge advantage. Have a look at: ua-cam.com/video/WNBPSibLYIA/v-deo.html
I’ve got a surveyor coming out this week, would you recommend having it done?
Hi Col,
I replied to David Cross earlier in the comments on this video. I can do no better than repeat a few of the things I said then . . .
Firstly, Nissan's battery warranty is not affected by using the vehicle for V2G. Also, there is good evidence that V2G may actually increase battery life. Read: www.theengineer.co.uk/v2g-could-help-extend-ev-battery-life/
We don't see any concerns about the car, therefore.
Secondly, we did not pay for the installation. Had we had to pay for all that was done, I doubt we could have afforded it, so this opportunity seems too good to miss.
We are getting free travel, and are making a small cash profit, probably a pound or so per day, but together, that adds up to a tidy sum over a year.
Overarching all this is the fact that if the grid is to cope with millions of EVs they will need to charge during the small hours when electricity is plentiful (and more likely to be green). AND - if people like us can also use our "batteries on wheels" to help out the grid during the peak times that will help too!
Have a look at this: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-30476591 In Leighton Buzzard the evening peak electricity demand was outstripping supply. The solution they chose was to fill a warehouse with batteries, charge them during the night and feed the grid in the evening. Fewer than 200 EVs like ours have the same capacity as that warehouse full of batteries. Why, if it may actually be good for our vehicles and certainly do no harm, and we get free travel and we are paid to do it, and we can help out the grid and do better for the environment, would we not choose to do it?
Personally, if you have a Leaf, I'd say go for it; be right at the leading edge of this new technology! :-) You might like to watch this as well: ua-cam.com/video/qLE2SrDNPZc/v-deo.html
Cheers,
SB.
So was this a 3 phase supply, or just a new 80A single phase ?
Hi, Pat, this is a new single-phase supply (Blue phase - as we said in the video). The fuse is currently 80amp but the cable they put in will happily carry 100 in the future if needed.
Any updates on second video?
We had a shaky start to our V2G experience. We had a few early "flashing red light" faults, then in the run-up to Christmas, a software fault prevented us from exporting anything for several weeks, so we only really started in the new year. It has all settled down now and seems reliable, so we will be summarising our findings soon.
Thank you for asking. 👍
Out now if you haven't seen it yet.
Damn that's expensive
How much would it cost?
Good video, no need for such intrusive "music" if you can call it that!
It's a style, sorry, you're fighting a lost battle these days.
I'm on the list, and have asked to retain my 7kW type 2 socket, but OVO are telling me that they will have to fit a change over switch, which is a little annoying as the existing type 2 is already automated through my OpenHab system, which I will lose if they fit a changeover.
I see your dilemma. You could try simply dropping the idea for the moment and when the installation guys arrive ask them to leave the original as well. :-) I think maybe we got away with it because we already had a separate isolation switch and circuit breaker for the Type 2 (in the meter box) so, as the V2G charger also came with one the Type 2 was simply left alone. Also, the Type 2 was installed by Indra when we first got the new car, so maybe the OVO guys didn't feel they could remove it. Dunno. Sorry it seems to be a problem for you.
Without the selector switch in place, you may go over your max demand. Better to have a switch than a blown fuse... Or worse.
Where did you charge your Leaf?
Our apologies if we did not make it clear, but the unit on the wall is both charger and inverter. That is, it works both from the grid to the car and from the car to the grid. The idea is the car is charged automatically overnight when electricity is cheap and more likely to be "green". Then when electricity is in greater demand the car sends electricity, (via the inverter/charger) to the grid.
We buy electricity cheaply when it's in plentiful supply and we sell it back more expensively when it's in demand. Watch the next two videos and you will see the figures for this.
Sometimes, our car does not move for a week - especially in lockdown - but it sits on our drive and charges and discharges every day when ordered to by the grid.
How is importing and exporting done?
Hi Jorge,
You should start by watching the next two videos in the series.
However, in outline, the car charger you saw installed is also an inverter which takes electricity from the car's battery and sends it into the grid. It is told when to charge the car (import electricity) and when to send electricity to the grid (export electricity) by a combination of the Kaluza software (which communicates with the car via the data connection in the charging cable) working from instructions from OVO our electricity supplier.
Thank you for watching.
How grid synchronization is occurring in leaf?
Hi, Akshay, the inverter does indeed have to synchronise itself with the 50Hz of the mains frequency. If it didn't, it would certainly damage itself, probably damage the house meter, and maybe blow the company fuse. Synchronisation with then grid's 50Hz AC is however done in the V2G Charger, not by the car.
Actually, when sending power to the grid, the unit on the wall is not being a Charger, it's being an Inverter. (The unit contains both Charger and Inverter - which is why of course it is larger than the average simple EV power supply.)
There are a number of ways synchronisation with the grid can be accomplished technically, both by the Indra-designed EV charger/inverter and the inverter attached to our solar panels. (We actually, therefore, have two inverters here.) Here's a simple explanation: solarpowernerd.com/how-solar-inverter-synchronize-with-grid/ and here's a more technical version: is.gd/Inverters Try this Google search for more: is.gd/GoogleIt
I hope that helps.
@@ElectrAA thank you..
@@ElectrAA I gone through multiple documents related to synchronization and was confused cause there are a lot of PLL metbods ..So was trying to know that which method is used to perform the functionality
@@akshaymarjun3985 I do not know exactly which technical method the Indra unit uses. I suggest you contact Indra directly via this link: www.indra.co.uk/contact-us-1
@@ElectrAA sure..thank you for your valuable help
Still leaf has a 400 charge battery life, maybe if cars replace li ion batteries with lifepo4 batteries it becomes viable option. Now it's in opposite direction of green energy.
Who said the Leaf can only be charged 400 times? In our first year with the new car, the V2G system sent the car 278 quick charges and 62 Type 2 charges. Our battery degraded by less than 2%. Don't forget, every time one slows down or goes downhill whilst driving the car it switches into charge mode due to regenerative braking. This can happen dozens of times even in a short journey. The number of charges is unimportant.
Nissan says Leaf batteries will outlast the car by 12 years and of course, Nissan's battery warranty is unaffected by its use for V2G. I think you've been fed some very duff oIl company propaganda! insideevs.com/news/351314/nissan-leaf-battery-longevity/
What? my 4 year old leaf has charged 721 times and has only lost 6% capacity.
Capacity reduce quickly in first years
Great video, but It looks like a fairly expensive project. It seems it would take you 100 years to recover your investment.
It was expensive, yes - especially for us, as we had to be "unlooped" from our neighbour's supply. Had we been paying for it ourselves we probably could not have afforded it. However, this is a trial and thankfully the cost for all 330 homes was covered by the UK government. Having said that, last year we made about £460 from Vehicle 2 Grid, so your suggestion of 100 years is a bit out, 10 would probably do it. Also, as mass production of chargers and economies of scale kick in the cost will drop of course.
Thank you for watching and commenting.
Sheila.
If the public are going to have to pay for this after the test money runs out I cannot believe any sane person would do it. Electric cars and their outlay are beyond most families unless the government steps and helps financially.
Eventually (5 to 20 years?) The battery cost will come down. Battery to grid might become a necessity if demand increases and more "green" power generation takes place. Charge your car while the solar panels are generating power (in many regions this is off peak time) and discharge your car's battery during peak usage.
But why? Is this a lesson how to ruin your EV's battery before its time (at great expense by the look of it) and perhaps unlikely to ever payback the cost of installation + the extra depreciation you should apply to your car. Perhaps you might have considered using your leaf for getting from A to B and something like a Tesla powerwall (others are are available) to capture unused solar or cheap econ 7/off peak electricity. Are you benefiting from an old historic feed in tariff that is irrelevant now they have more or less gone?
The next owner of that over-chargecycled Leaf is going to be delighted unless they are oblivious to how you have used it. Unfortunately the Leaf will only show miles driven and not reflect the constant charging and discharging on your V to G system which will inevitably shorten its life and send it to the scrap yard. Leaf batteries are notoriously fragile enough with poor battery management/cooling/heating systems to protect and preserve them during their natural use.
Using you own EV battery to prop up the grid surely isn't really the responsibility of EV owners and I'm not what your motives are for doing it?. If the National grid need extra power to meet peak demand they could purchase grid batteries themselves to support their shortfall and pass the bill on to everyone who uses the grid.
OK, David, let's take your points one at a time.
Firstly, Nissan's battery warranty is not affected by using the vehicle for V2G. Also, there is good evidence that V2G may actually increase battery life. Read: www.theengineer.co.uk/v2g-could-help-extend-ev-battery-life/
Secondly, admittedly we did not pay for the installation. We are one of 1,000 households trialling V2G, part of which is being paid for by a government grant.
Thirdly, we have waived our solar feed-in tariff because all of our electricity export to the grid is now covered by the OVO/Nissan/Indra/Kaluza scheme.
Re "The next owner" and " inevitably shorten its life" please see answer one.
Re: "Using your own EV battery to prop up the grid surely isn't really the responsibility of EV owners". There are two answers to this: Firstly, we are getting free travel, we are powering all our own household electricity needs between 4pm and around 11pm. On top of this, we are making a small cash profit, probably a pound or so per day, but together with free travel etc., that adds up to a tidy sum over a year. Secondly, do you only ever do things that are your responsibility? If the grid is to cope with millions of EVs they will need to charge during the small hours when electricity is plentiful (and more likely to be green). If people like us can also use our "batteries on wheels" to help out the grid during the peak times that will help too!
Have a look at this: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-30476591 In Leighton Buzzard the evening peak electricity demand was outstripping supply. The solution they chose was to fill a warehouse with batteries, charge them during the night and feed the grid in the evening. (So the grid has indeed purchased batteries - your last suggestion - and has been doing since 2014..)
Fewer than 200 EVs like ours have the same capacity as that warehouse full of batteries. Why, if it may actually be good for our vehicles and certainly do no harm, and we get free travel and we are paid to do it, and we can help out the grid and do better for the environment, would we not choose to do it? You need to update your thinking.