Thank you for sharing a very instructive analysis and use-cases for V2G. The speaker does also an excellent job in proactively answering questions a viewer like me may likely want to ask.
I thought your first video on this subject to be very professional, this second video maintains your high standard. You are right about users feedback it should be incorporated in the webinar.
Thank you for your kind comments, Vince; we're glad you are finding our videos interesting and enjoyable. Thank you for watching and subscribing. Sheila.
I would love to see V2G rolled out, and I think all car manufacturers should be made to equip their cars with this capability. Come on UK Gov, the EU etc, get your act together so that this much needed technology can benefit society, and improve the efficiency of our power grid.
Couldn't agree with you more, Jesse. All EVs should be capable of V2G from around 2025/6. Right now CCS is not bidirectional, but we will get there! Thank you for watching and your enthusiasm! :-)
Great work! Very informative indeed. Sheila, you should have had a career in presenting you come across so natural! Great filming and editing too from Stephen. 👍
This has been a good informative series of two (so far!) V2G videos. I also have the same system installed to my 40kWh Leaf, and would add the following observations. Your install went like a charm! A (suspiciously?) smooth experience. My install was much simpler, yet took several months and six visits. OK, the installation team were learning, too, but a lot of miscommunication at the suppliers' end. Software glitches are still a thing, readings go missing or are delayed. I suspect there's currently a lot of manual stuff going on behind the scenes at OVO billing. You can get the actual miles driven and kWh used from the crappy Nissan app. (People say, "Tesla are five years ahead with their software" Looking at the Nissan app, I'd say nearer ten). Each month, ADD that kWh figure to your exported figure over the same period, and compare that total to the imported figure. Factor in the reality that the "round trip" efficiency of the whole charge/discharge cycle is only about 83-85% (I've done a lot of measurements on this, and am confident on that figure). That is, for every 8.5kWh that comes out of the system, you'll need to put 10 kWh back in. The generation payments (with solar) are probably currently overly-generous. But that was part of the "hook" to get us on the trial, I guess. I cannot see electricity suppliers being able to support this level of payment longer term. Like you, currently OVO pay ME each month! Electricity you export is worth more (26p) than the electricity you use (16p), so bizarrely you are better off exporting your solar, rather than dumping it into your car. Not sure this was what V2G is all about, but I'm not complaining! But again, I find this hard to justify as a business case. My DNO have decided to limit my V2G power to just 3.3kW. Again, doing the numbers, I think this would make a commercial system (which is probably going to end up costing £2-3000?) very hard to justify. The payback would be too long. Still, it's interesting to be at the bleeding edge. "Battery to Grid" is definitely going to be "a thing" as renewables continue to rise as a proportion of our overall generation. Although even as a willing and interested trialist, I'm not quite convinced about such small systems as individual V2G cars. But I guess that's what a trial is for!
Thank you for your long and useful comments. Everyone's experiences are good to know and contribute to the knowledge we are all accruing during this great experiment.
Excellent presentation, I am very interested in V2G and I like your approach of using an app ( or software) to predict the various parameters that should be taken into account when either charging the car or sending power back to the grid. Clearly having capacity to store excess solar energy is critical, the cost/income for power at various times of the day, the planned usage of the next day, weather, possible V2G charging points on the planned trips etc. will make V2G more viable. Finally the data collection and analysis are critical to improve the systems .
Hi, That was an excellent video. Very informative. I live in Australia and want to do the exact same thing with my Leaf but unfortunately Australia is not as advanced as the UK.
Hi, Larry, We have heard the Australian Government does not seem keen to promote EVs in general. However, V2G trials are coming to your part of the world, so take a little comfort in some good news: is.gd/V2GAus We believe Indra, who made our charger has also shipped some units to the antipodes. We're not sure where they ended up though. Thank you for watching and commenting.
Brilliant video, i orgionally commented on your orgional install video, It been one heck of a treck for me to get V2G but this week we finally got Installed after 12 months. My install wasnt as complicated as yours ie The DNO upgraded my fuse to 80 Amp from 60amp , I already had the smart charger so all the Wires was in place. It however took 3 days to get my login to V2G as i already had the smart charger. The only issue i had which i hope ovo will look into was the charger when installed had a old firmware so for 2 days the charger had the red flashing light on a morning and i had to reset it. I then had to raise a ticket to get it updated, i would of thought ovo would make sure the charger was updated to the current firmware at install, as i understand it ovo have a stock pile of V2G chargers so need less to say firmware would be out of date. Currently looking for a best way to configure my battery storage of 4.8Kw it charges during the day if theres enough solar but if for some reason my usage is high during the day they dont charge, then when V2G starts exporting my other invertor sees it as solar or green energy and proceeds to charge the batterys, I dont want this as im not been paid for the energy going into the battery's? Its all a learning curve and loving it thus far. Looking forward to your next video x
Thank you, Paul. We're collecting a wide selection of experiences with V2G right here in the comments. Your addition is very welcome, thank you. We do plan a third video at some point; the lockdown period has been interesting - the most important factor being right now, in June/July, we're making a profit every month - even on electricity and gas combined. Cheers, Stephen and Sheila.
Thanks again for another well put together video. I have just received my installation date for mid March so your information is very helpful to manage my expectations. How did they connect your internet connection to the charger, wire, dongle or home plug? Cheers
A wireless TP-Link Ethernet extender was installed in the socket beside where they drilled the hole in the kitchen wall and another sits under our office desk connected to our router. I should have got a shot of the TP-link in the kitchen! I've snapped a couple of pictures for you: photos.app.goo.gl/6G2pDyYCtLiRSc3Z7
We have answered this question several times in the comments but I agree we should have said it in the video as well! 🙂 We did not pay for installation. That was done as part of a government-funded trial of 330 households. The cost would have certainly been in the thousands of pounds - but - bear in mind, we are unusual in that our electricity supply had to be disconnected from our neighbour first. That was the most expensive part - all those men and diggers, etc. The cost of the installation would have been for the charger and the installation team. Chargers (actually inverters/rectifiers) - will come down in cost hugely as the numbers increase of course. However, had we had to pay the whole cost of the installation, we probably could not have afforded it!
Hi! Very nice video! i was wondering, how much credit did you get per kWh exported? do you only export with the V2G technology or do you also export using your photovoltaic system? Thanks in advance for the responses.
Hi, Alex, One of the rules for being on the OVO V2G trial is we have to be on a flat rate for our electricity. We pay 14p per kWh for what we take from the grid and we are paid 26p per kWh for what we send to the grid. (It's 26p per kWh because we also send the generation from our solar panels to the grid via the same system - if we didn't have them, our payment for export would be greater - about 30p I think.) The OVO/Kaluza system sees no difference between what the car sends and what our solar panels send; it's metered at the point of joining the grid, not by each system individually. Therefore, we are paid 26p per kWh for our solar energy also. In order to benefit from this, we have to waive our feed-in tariff, but we are still paid the basic generation fee by the government. As you will see from our figures, we made a profit on all our energy including gas and what the car has used in travelling over the summer. We won't do the same over the winter of course, but we'll still have hugely reduced costs overall. Thank you for watching and your question. Sheila and Stephen.
Great informative video. May I ask if OVO only import electricity that you have gained from them? Or can you send to grid any excess that you may have purchased, say, at a destination charger?
No restrictions there. In fact, just to prove a point, we did once charge at Tesco (for free) go home and export it to the grid. Naughty, but we won't be making a habit of it. However, we did once stop at a rapid charger on our way home from Wales and fill the car to around 80 percent. That cost us 30 pence per kWh from Ecotricity, however, what we didn't use, went to the grid that evening for 26 pence per kWh, so the charge only actually cost us 4p per kWh.
Have you considered adding a myenrgi Eddi diverter to utilise the PV energy that is currently being fed back to the Grid? or is that already included in OVO's calculations on feed back to the grid?
@@mikegullick The simple answers are no and yes, Mike. In fact, you have made us double-think that aspect again because OVO does pay us for the electricity sent to the grid during the day anyway. Our idea of Zappi charger functionality is actually made redundant by that. We're all learning, having ideas and then better ones. As my daughter often says "Ever day's a school day!" :-)
@@ElectrAA Addition to the above: Zappi charger functionality is still a good idea because, during the day, the grid does not need support it's doing the evening it needs help, so to save sunshine during the day and send it to the grid in the evening is still a good idea!
Great video, very professional. What is the max export rate from the car to house, someone mentioned it is limited to 4 kW, I am just curious as the car can import at 7 kW I would have assume V2G was same rate each way. Do you own your Leaf, is it 40 or 60 kWh, and are our concerned about battery degradation, or does it ‘help’ the battery efficiency y continued charging and discharging. Thanks.
Good questions, Bob. 1) The Indra-designed V2G charger is actually capable of 6kW each way, but Western Power's current rules state the current going to the grid must not exceed 3.5kW. As it's impossible for the charger to know how much the house is consuming, therefore the charger has to be limited to export at 3.5kW. We (Indra, OVO, Kaluza, Nissan) have asked for this restriction to be removed, but no luck yet. 2) When we press the Boost button or hit Boost in the Kaluza App, the charger is switched to 6Kw charging. Not quite the 7kW we had on our previous charger but close enough that we don't notice the difference. 3) We bought our 62 kWh Leaf outright because we expect it to last at least ten years. We had a 2014 24kWh Leaf before this one and traded it in with Fish Brothers in Swindon. (Highly recommended by the way.) 4) V2G, as long as it's controlled by the Kaluza App, does not invalidate the Nissan battery warranty. Of course, V2G is new and somewhat unknown, but there is a lot of evidence that says it's certainly not harmful and may even benefit the battery. Read: www.theengineer.co.uk/v2g-could-help-extend-ev-battery-life/ We don't see any concerns about the car, therefore. Anecdotal evidence from C&C Taxis in St. Austell tells us that after 175,000 miles and over 6,000 rapid charges, one of their oldest Leaf taxis still has 75% of its original battery capacity.
@@ElectrAA thanks. Pleased Swindon has a good dealer for EVs- I was born and lived in Swindon till my 20's. maybe I will visit Fish Brothers in Swindon when I am next back visiting.
Only the CHAdeMO standard and protocol is bi-directional - at present anyway. The Leaf does not have a CCS port, it has both a CHAdoMO and a Type 2 Mennekes charge port. (The Original Leaf has CHAdeMO and Type 1) For this reason, at the moment at least, it's only the Leaf that can do Vehicle to Grid. Nissan was so far ahead of everyone else when designing the Leaf that even an original 24kWh 2010 Leaf can do V2G. However - the newly-announced Nissan EV, the Ariya has a CCS port; not CHAdeMO. We don't have any information about whether this can support bi-directionality. The CCS standard is expected to evolve to become capable of V2G somewhere around 2025 to 2026, but that's supposition only at the moment. Has Nissan included the hardware in the Ariya to support CCS V2G when the protocols are finalised? Nobody knows, but personally, I would not be surprised. So the short answer to your question is, it's CHAdeMO because that's all the Leaf has, and it's the only port than can do V2G at the moment.
Great video. Just wandering if you leave ovo and then own VTG. Can you power your home during the day especially winter time and then top up your car at night?
You're talking about V2H. It is possible - the charger is also an inverter so it's capable of supplying 6kW to the house if so directed. However, we would probably require further wiring to isolate us from the grid. Remember though, the charger depends on the Kaluza App to work, and Kaluza is part of OVO. So if OVO drops the whole thing after 2 years, I reckon we have a large 6kW charger. As we already have a standard 7kW charger as well, I guess we would revert to that. What I'm trying to say is, it's a bit unknown! We shall see! :-)
See our new information we have gathered about the end of the trial in our reply to the comment by Paul Stot on this video: ua-cam.com/video/7h9EecmLatY/v-deo.html
Any ideas what happens if you move house? My install was delayed due to Covid and requiring the same delooping of electricity from my neighbours which you had - this was done earlier today so I now have a big trench on my drive 😐 The remaining work is tomorrow with OVO to follow shortly after I'm led to believe - but I don't plan to remain at this property due to a growing family and was wondering what happens (if anything) when I potentially move in a couple of years(?)🤷🏽♂️
The straightforward answer to your question is no. We have wondered about this ourselves. We also wonder about what happens at the end of the two-year trial. We know we can buy the charger for £1 but will V2G continue or be wound up? Will we have to re-take-up the FIT that we waived when Ovo started paying us for solar-generated electricity? In your case, the trial may have ended by the time you move, in which case you will have a very expensive, very large, 6kW charger to leave with the house. There are many unknowns but as Sheila said in the video, we're all guinea pigs in this big experiment and come what may in the future, we would not have missed the opportunity to be in it. S&S
If we put the car on to charge during the day, by hitting the Boost button for example, the car will of course charge using the energy from our solar panels. Otherwise, we still get paid 26p per kilowatt hour for it by OVO. The reason we would like Zappi style functionality is that it would be better for the grid for us to use the car to store the solar energy and send it to the grid during the evening peak.
We're just about to make the third video. We've had the 62kWh Leaf for exactly one year, and today it had its first annual service. I grabbed all the battery stats via LeafSpy Pro this morning with the car showing 100% charge. We'll go into exactly what has happened to the car after 1 year - 10 months of which is with V2G and much of that during the lockdown when the car didn't move very far for several months. There are some surprises! Make sure you're subscribed. :-)
Japan is focused on V2H - Vehicle to Home rather than V2G. In fact, we believe there are no V2G systems in Japan at the moment. Because they have so many earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, wild swings in weather, 2 metres of rain in 24 hours (yes 2 meters! ua-cam.com/video/LFz6r2LyyCU/v-deo.html ) the electricity system in Japan suffers many blackouts during the average year. V2H is worth far more than V2G to the citizens. Have a look at these two videos . . . ua-cam.com/video/BUbVzsy9ds4/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/x78XGElU2I0/v-deo.html (V2H is actually simpler to do than V2G because it does not need to synchronise with the grid or manage payments, metering, etc. Just cut the connection with the grid and pump power to the house/shelter/whatever.) Thank you for watching, Keith.
All our figures for import and export are on-screen at: ua-cam.com/video/pq_aQwWAK4o/v-deo.html and ua-cam.com/video/pq_aQwWAK4o/v-deo.html We also share our financial data. I can't think there is a lot more we could share! We're in the final stages of scripting the next video where we do just the same again.
You spent £161 on electricity in January and you have solar PV? Also if you've got excess PV have you looked at Immersun for hot water or batteries to store the excess?
I think you're missing the point. Yes, we spent £161 on electricity during January, but OVO then paid us £169 in effect to "borrow" our car battery. So the car made a small profit and we got all our travel free. Remember, the car has a battery capacity of 4.5 times that of a Tesla Powerwall. The car IS our battery and what's more, it's a battery that the National Grid borrows and uses to help balance the evening peak load. You need to understand Vehicle to Grid a bit better. I suggest you start by watching this: ua-cam.com/video/x0Oom69ZD9Y/v-deo.html Thank you for your interest.
@@ElectrAA Sorry - i was just shocked by the amount. I fully support what you are doing and can see how it works in your favour. What really impresses me is how this shows what one signal car can achieve. A town full of V2G and that's a power station not required. I've got PV and a battery and an EV is next on the list.
@@gtubbs6974 There are 1,000 vehicles being brought into the V2G trial so we will be making at least a small difference by the end of it. Have a look at this: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-30476591 That battery is 10 mWh so around 250 EVs have the same spare capacity as that battery. So the figures start looking encouraging even with 1,000 EVs in the scheme. Delighted to hear your next vehicle will be electric. Way to go! :-)
Interesting, not sure why you get paid so much for exporting since you imported from the same source as I understand, OK you produce some solar but in winter I'm guessing the amount is very small. I suppose the revenue you gain is as a result of the difference between peak rate and off peak rate. You didn't make this clear in the video.
Our video was not made to explain Vehicle to Grid, but rather to show the practical experience of having it installed and living with it. There are many explanations of V2G elsewhere. We have linked to the video below several times to explain the principle in the shortest possible time. This is an OVO video from whom we buy our electricity and to whom we lend our vehicle battery at peak times: ua-cam.com/video/x0Oom69ZD9Y/v-deo.html Thank you for watching.
Hi, Rob, If you fill in the contact form on the 'Talk With Us' page of the ElectrAA website and let us have your email address, we'll get in touch. www.electraa.org.uk/contact
That's going to reduce the life of your battery considerably without any driving done. Since batteries have a life cycle of XX times, the replacement will be due sooner and that will cost a bomb.
Hi, Anand, We have heard this same comment so many times and have answered it many times in the comments on all three videos. To start with, I suggest you watch part 3 of this series where we examine our battery state of health after one year. Watch: ua-cam.com/video/7h9EecmLatY/v-deo.html Remember, every time you brake or go downhill in the Leaf, the car switches into charging mode! This could happen dozens of times per hour while driving. The number of charges is not a problem; there is no maximum. Thirdly, V2G does not invalidate Nissan's battery warranty. Nissan is an extremely keen and active player in this trial. Should we discover our battery suffers unduly, Nissan's warranty will kick in and replace it - not that we expect that to happen. That fact alone is a huge comfort in letting our car and its battery be used in this way. We have lost 1.6% or just over 3 miles of our range in our first year with V2G. Given the lack of vehicle use during this strange year, we genuinely believe V2G has helped maintain our battery's health. Have a look at these links: is.gd/V2GLink1 • is.gd/V2GLink2 • is.gd/V2GLink3 Thank you for watching, don't let yourself become a victim of oil company propaganda and try not to be so pessimistic! 😊👍
Thank you for sharing a very instructive analysis and use-cases for V2G. The speaker does also an excellent job in proactively answering questions a viewer like me may likely want to ask.
We do try to anticipate questions and answer them in our videos.
Thank you for watching and for your kind comments.
Sheila.
Thanks best wishes from Canada
Very natural presenting and seamless editing!
I thought your first video on this subject to be very professional, this second video maintains your high standard. You are right about users feedback it should be incorporated in the webinar.
What a nice comment to receive, thank you. I hope you like the third one as much! :-) Thank you for watching.
‘What a snappy title’ Hah! I’m 100% subscribed. Your ideas a making waves in 2021. Can’t wait to have a look over the rest of your content.
Thank you for your kind comments, Vince; we're glad you are finding our videos interesting and enjoyable. Thank you for watching and subscribing.
Sheila.
I would love to see V2G rolled out, and I think all car manufacturers should be made to equip their cars with this capability. Come on UK Gov, the EU etc, get your act together so that this much needed technology can benefit society, and improve the efficiency of our power grid.
Couldn't agree with you more, Jesse. All EVs should be capable of V2G from around 2025/6. Right now CCS is not bidirectional, but we will get there!
Thank you for watching and your enthusiasm! :-)
EmonEVSE / MQTT does what you are looking for.
Great video!
Thanx very much!
Great work! Very informative indeed. Sheila, you should have had a career in presenting you come across so natural! Great filming and editing too from Stephen. 👍
This has been a good informative series of two (so far!) V2G videos. I also have the same system installed to my 40kWh Leaf, and would add the following observations.
Your install went like a charm! A (suspiciously?) smooth experience. My install was much simpler, yet took several months and six visits. OK, the installation team were learning, too, but a lot of miscommunication at the suppliers' end. Software glitches are still a thing, readings go missing or are delayed. I suspect there's currently a lot of manual stuff going on behind the scenes at OVO billing.
You can get the actual miles driven and kWh used from the crappy Nissan app. (People say, "Tesla are five years ahead with their software" Looking at the Nissan app, I'd say nearer ten). Each month, ADD that kWh figure to your exported figure over the same period, and compare that total to the imported figure. Factor in the reality that the "round trip" efficiency of the whole charge/discharge cycle is only about 83-85% (I've done a lot of measurements on this, and am confident on that figure). That is, for every 8.5kWh that comes out of the system, you'll need to put 10 kWh back in.
The generation payments (with solar) are probably currently overly-generous. But that was part of the "hook" to get us on the trial, I guess. I cannot see electricity suppliers being able to support this level of payment longer term. Like you, currently OVO pay ME each month! Electricity you export is worth more (26p) than the electricity you use (16p), so bizarrely you are better off exporting your solar, rather than dumping it into your car. Not sure this was what V2G is all about, but I'm not complaining! But again, I find this hard to justify as a business case.
My DNO have decided to limit my V2G power to just 3.3kW. Again, doing the numbers, I think this would make a commercial system (which is probably going to end up costing £2-3000?) very hard to justify. The payback would be too long. Still, it's interesting to be at the bleeding edge. "Battery to Grid" is definitely going to be "a thing" as renewables continue to rise as a proportion of our overall generation. Although even as a willing and interested trialist, I'm not quite convinced about such small systems as individual V2G cars. But I guess that's what a trial is for!
Thank you for your long and useful comments. Everyone's experiences are good to know and contribute to the knowledge we are all accruing during this great experiment.
Very forward thinking project I hope to see something like this in more areas in the future
Thank you for watching.
Very interesting!!! Looking forward that this would be possible in Belgium as well.
Nice clear presentation many thanks. Keith
Excellent presentation, I am very interested in V2G and I like your approach of using an app ( or software) to predict the various parameters that should be taken into account when either charging the car or sending power back to the grid. Clearly having capacity to store excess solar energy is critical, the cost/income for power at various times of the day, the planned usage of the next day, weather, possible V2G charging points on the planned trips etc. will make V2G more viable. Finally the data collection and analysis are critical to improve the systems .
PS the link to webinar does not work.
@@lessimons Ahh right. It must have expired - We'll change that now. Thanks for pointing it out.
Great video!
Thank you for watching and for your kind comment.
Hi,
That was an excellent video. Very informative. I live in Australia and want to do the exact same thing with my Leaf but unfortunately Australia is not as advanced as the UK.
Hi, Larry,
We have heard the Australian Government does not seem keen to promote EVs in general. However, V2G trials are coming to your part of the world, so take a little comfort in some good news: is.gd/V2GAus We believe Indra, who made our charger has also shipped some units to the antipodes. We're not sure where they ended up though.
Thank you for watching and commenting.
Leading edge stuff
Brilliant video, i orgionally commented on your orgional install video, It been one heck of a treck for me to get V2G but this week we finally got Installed after 12 months. My install wasnt as complicated as yours ie The DNO upgraded my fuse to 80 Amp from 60amp , I already had the smart charger so all the Wires was in place. It however took 3 days to get my login to V2G as i already had the smart charger. The only issue i had which i hope ovo will look into was the charger when installed had a old firmware so for 2 days the charger had the red flashing light on a morning and i had to reset it. I then had to raise a ticket to get it updated, i would of thought ovo would make sure the charger was updated to the current firmware at install, as i understand it ovo have a stock pile of V2G chargers so need less to say firmware would be out of date. Currently looking for a best way to configure my battery storage of 4.8Kw it charges during the day if theres enough solar but if for some reason my usage is high during the day they dont charge, then when V2G starts exporting my other invertor sees it as solar or green energy and proceeds to charge the batterys, I dont want this as im not been paid for the energy going into the battery's? Its all a learning curve and loving it thus far. Looking forward to your next video x
Thank you, Paul. We're collecting a wide selection of experiences with V2G right here in the comments. Your addition is very welcome, thank you. We do plan a third video at some point; the lockdown period has been interesting - the most important factor being right now, in June/July, we're making a profit every month - even on electricity and gas combined.
Cheers,
Stephen and Sheila.
Thanks again for another well put together video. I have just received my installation date for mid March so your information is very helpful to manage my expectations. How did they connect your internet connection to the charger, wire, dongle or home plug? Cheers
A wireless TP-Link Ethernet extender was installed in the socket beside where they drilled the hole in the kitchen wall and another sits under our office desk connected to our router. I should have got a shot of the TP-link in the kitchen!
I've snapped a couple of pictures for you: photos.app.goo.gl/6G2pDyYCtLiRSc3Z7
What was the cost of installation? The figures supplied (although incomplete) needs to include stallation.
We have answered this question several times in the comments but I agree we should have said it in the video as well! 🙂
We did not pay for installation. That was done as part of a government-funded trial of 330 households. The cost would have certainly been in the thousands of pounds - but - bear in mind, we are unusual in that our electricity supply had to be disconnected from our neighbour first. That was the most expensive part - all those men and diggers, etc.
The cost of the installation would have been for the charger and the installation team. Chargers (actually inverters/rectifiers) - will come down in cost hugely as the numbers increase of course.
However, had we had to pay the whole cost of the installation, we probably could not have afforded it!
Hi! Very nice video! i was wondering, how much credit did you get per kWh exported? do you only export with the V2G technology or do you also export using your photovoltaic system? Thanks in advance for the responses.
Hi, Alex,
One of the rules for being on the OVO V2G trial is we have to be on a flat rate for our electricity. We pay 14p per kWh for what we take from the grid and we are paid 26p per kWh for what we send to the grid. (It's 26p per kWh because we also send the generation from our solar panels to the grid via the same system - if we didn't have them, our payment for export would be greater - about 30p I think.)
The OVO/Kaluza system sees no difference between what the car sends and what our solar panels send; it's metered at the point of joining the grid, not by each system individually. Therefore, we are paid 26p per kWh for our solar energy also. In order to benefit from this, we have to waive our feed-in tariff, but we are still paid the basic generation fee by the government.
As you will see from our figures, we made a profit on all our energy including gas and what the car has used in travelling over the summer. We won't do the same over the winter of course, but we'll still have hugely reduced costs overall.
Thank you for watching and your question.
Sheila and Stephen.
Great informative video. May I ask if OVO only import electricity that you have gained from them? Or can you send to grid any excess that you may have purchased, say, at a destination charger?
No restrictions there. In fact, just to prove a point, we did once charge at Tesco (for free) go home and export it to the grid. Naughty, but we won't be making a habit of it. However, we did once stop at a rapid charger on our way home from Wales and fill the car to around 80 percent. That cost us 30 pence per kWh from Ecotricity, however, what we didn't use, went to the grid that evening for 26 pence per kWh, so the charge only actually cost us 4p per kWh.
@@ElectrAA Thanks for the info.
Have you considered adding a myenrgi Eddi diverter to utilise the PV energy that is currently being fed back to the Grid? or is that already included in OVO's calculations on feed back to the grid?
@@mikegullick The simple answers are no and yes, Mike. In fact, you have made us double-think that aspect again because OVO does pay us for the electricity sent to the grid during the day anyway. Our idea of Zappi charger functionality is actually made redundant by that. We're all learning, having ideas and then better ones. As my daughter often says "Ever day's a school day!" :-)
@@ElectrAA Addition to the above: Zappi charger functionality is still a good idea because, during the day, the grid does not need support it's doing the evening it needs help, so to save sunshine during the day and send it to the grid in the evening is still a good idea!
Great video, very professional. What is the max export rate from the car to house, someone mentioned it is limited to 4 kW, I am just curious as the car can import at 7 kW I would have assume V2G was same rate each way. Do you own your Leaf, is it 40 or 60 kWh, and are our concerned about battery degradation, or does it ‘help’ the battery efficiency y continued charging and discharging. Thanks.
Good questions, Bob.
1) The Indra-designed V2G charger is actually capable of 6kW each way, but Western Power's current rules state the current going to the grid must not exceed 3.5kW. As it's impossible for the charger to know how much the house is consuming, therefore the charger has to be limited to export at 3.5kW. We (Indra, OVO, Kaluza, Nissan) have asked for this restriction to be removed, but no luck yet.
2) When we press the Boost button or hit Boost in the Kaluza App, the charger is switched to 6Kw charging. Not quite the 7kW we had on our previous charger but close enough that we don't notice the difference.
3) We bought our 62 kWh Leaf outright because we expect it to last at least ten years. We had a 2014 24kWh Leaf before this one and traded it in with Fish Brothers in Swindon. (Highly recommended by the way.)
4) V2G, as long as it's controlled by the Kaluza App, does not invalidate the Nissan battery warranty. Of course, V2G is new and somewhat unknown, but there is a lot of evidence that says it's certainly not harmful and may even benefit the battery. Read: www.theengineer.co.uk/v2g-could-help-extend-ev-battery-life/
We don't see any concerns about the car, therefore.
Anecdotal evidence from C&C Taxis in St. Austell tells us that after 175,000 miles and over 6,000 rapid charges, one of their oldest Leaf taxis still has 75% of its original battery capacity.
@@ElectrAA thanks. Pleased Swindon has a good dealer for EVs- I was born and lived in Swindon till my 20's. maybe I will visit Fish Brothers in Swindon when I am next back visiting.
@@MrBobitsabc Ask for Simon Dando or Jamie Barrie and tell them Sheila and Stephen sent you. :-)
Great videos, thanks. Does it use the CCS port or CHademo? Cheers!
Only the CHAdeMO standard and protocol is bi-directional - at present anyway. The Leaf does not have a CCS port, it has both a CHAdoMO and a Type 2 Mennekes charge port. (The Original Leaf has CHAdeMO and Type 1) For this reason, at the moment at least, it's only the Leaf that can do Vehicle to Grid. Nissan was so far ahead of everyone else when designing the Leaf that even an original 24kWh 2010 Leaf can do V2G.
However - the newly-announced Nissan EV, the Ariya has a CCS port; not CHAdeMO. We don't have any information about whether this can support bi-directionality. The CCS standard is expected to evolve to become capable of V2G somewhere around 2025 to 2026, but that's supposition only at the moment. Has Nissan included the hardware in the Ariya to support CCS V2G when the protocols are finalised? Nobody knows, but personally, I would not be surprised.
So the short answer to your question is, it's CHAdeMO because that's all the Leaf has, and it's the only port than can do V2G at the moment.
Great video. Just wandering if you leave ovo and then own VTG. Can you power your home during the day especially winter time and then top up your car at night?
You're talking about V2H. It is possible - the charger is also an inverter so it's capable of supplying 6kW to the house if so directed. However, we would probably require further wiring to isolate us from the grid. Remember though, the charger depends on the Kaluza App to work, and Kaluza is part of OVO. So if OVO drops the whole thing after 2 years, I reckon we have a large 6kW charger. As we already have a standard 7kW charger as well, I guess we would revert to that. What I'm trying to say is, it's a bit unknown! We shall see! :-)
See our new information we have gathered about the end of the trial in our reply to the comment by Paul Stot on this video: ua-cam.com/video/7h9EecmLatY/v-deo.html
Any ideas what happens if you move house? My install was delayed due to Covid and requiring the same delooping of electricity from my neighbours which you had - this was done earlier today so I now have a big trench on my drive 😐 The remaining work is tomorrow with OVO to follow shortly after I'm led to believe - but I don't plan to remain at this property due to a growing family and was wondering what happens (if anything) when I potentially move in a couple of years(?)🤷🏽♂️
The straightforward answer to your question is no. We have wondered about this ourselves.
We also wonder about what happens at the end of the two-year trial. We know we can buy the charger for £1 but will V2G continue or be wound up? Will we have to re-take-up the FIT that we waived when Ovo started paying us for solar-generated electricity?
In your case, the trial may have ended by the time you move, in which case you will have a very expensive, very large, 6kW charger to leave with the house.
There are many unknowns but as Sheila said in the video, we're all guinea pigs in this big experiment and come what may in the future, we would not have missed the opportunity to be in it.
S&S
Octopus are currently doing a trial of a V2G system where you can use Solar Energy from your roof to charge your car as well.
If we put the car on to charge during the day, by hitting the Boost button for example, the car will of course charge using the energy from our solar panels. Otherwise, we still get paid 26p per kilowatt hour for it by OVO. The reason we would like Zappi style functionality is that it would be better for the grid for us to use the car to store the solar energy and send it to the grid during the evening peak.
how about battery degradation of car? do u calculate it?
We're just about to make the third video. We've had the 62kWh Leaf for exactly one year, and today it had its first annual service. I grabbed all the battery stats via LeafSpy Pro this morning with the car showing 100% charge.
We'll go into exactly what has happened to the car after 1 year - 10 months of which is with V2G and much of that during the lockdown when the car didn't move very far for several months.
There are some surprises! Make sure you're subscribed. :-)
Perhaps they could import the V2G system from Japan thats been operating for a few years.
Japan is focused on V2H - Vehicle to Home rather than V2G. In fact, we believe there are no V2G systems in Japan at the moment.
Because they have so many earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, wild swings in weather, 2 metres of rain in 24 hours (yes 2 meters! ua-cam.com/video/LFz6r2LyyCU/v-deo.html ) the electricity system in Japan suffers many blackouts during the average year. V2H is worth far more than V2G to the citizens. Have a look at these two videos . . .
ua-cam.com/video/BUbVzsy9ds4/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/x78XGElU2I0/v-deo.html
(V2H is actually simpler to do than V2G because it does not need to synchronise with the grid or manage payments, metering, etc. Just cut the connection with the grid and pump power to the house/shelter/whatever.)
Thank you for watching, Keith.
@@ElectrAA Thank You that is very useful information
Will it be possible for you to share those data for research purposes ? Seen from a typical user point of view are very interesting.
All our figures for import and export are on-screen at: ua-cam.com/video/pq_aQwWAK4o/v-deo.html
and ua-cam.com/video/pq_aQwWAK4o/v-deo.html We also share our financial data. I can't think there is a lot more we could share! We're in the final stages of scripting the next video where we do just the same again.
See our new video released yesterday evening. If there is anything else you would like to see, let us know.
You spent £161 on electricity in January and you have solar PV? Also if you've got excess PV have you looked at Immersun for hot water or batteries to store the excess?
I think you're missing the point. Yes, we spent £161 on electricity during January, but OVO then paid us £169 in effect to "borrow" our car battery. So the car made a small profit and we got all our travel free. Remember, the car has a battery capacity of 4.5 times that of a Tesla Powerwall.
The car IS our battery and what's more, it's a battery that the National Grid borrows and uses to help balance the evening peak load. You need to understand Vehicle to Grid a bit better. I suggest you start by watching this: ua-cam.com/video/x0Oom69ZD9Y/v-deo.html Thank you for your interest.
@@ElectrAA Sorry - i was just shocked by the amount. I fully support what you are doing and can see how it works in your favour. What really impresses me is how this shows what one signal car can achieve. A town full of V2G and that's a power station not required. I've got PV and a battery and an EV is next on the list.
@@gtubbs6974 There are 1,000 vehicles being brought into the V2G trial so we will be making at least a small difference by the end of it. Have a look at this: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-30476591 That battery is 10 mWh so around 250 EVs have the same spare capacity as that battery. So the figures start looking encouraging even with 1,000 EVs in the scheme.
Delighted to hear your next vehicle will be electric. Way to go! :-)
Interesting, not sure why you get paid so much for exporting since you imported from the same source as I understand, OK you produce some solar but in winter I'm guessing the amount is very small. I suppose the revenue you gain is as a result of the difference between peak rate and off peak rate. You didn't make this clear in the video.
Our video was not made to explain Vehicle to Grid, but rather to show the practical experience of having it installed and living with it. There are many explanations of V2G elsewhere. We have linked to the video below several times to explain the principle in the shortest possible time. This is an OVO video from whom we buy our electricity and to whom we lend our vehicle battery at peak times:
ua-cam.com/video/x0Oom69ZD9Y/v-deo.html
Thank you for watching.
Love to get into contact and speak about this personally!
Hi, Rob, If you fill in the contact form on the 'Talk With Us' page of the ElectrAA website and let us have your email address, we'll get in touch. www.electraa.org.uk/contact
That's going to reduce the life of your battery considerably without any driving done. Since batteries have a life cycle of XX times, the replacement will be due sooner and that will cost a bomb.
Hi, Anand,
We have heard this same comment so many times and have answered it many times in the comments on all three videos. To start with, I suggest you watch part 3 of this series where we examine our battery state of health after one year. Watch: ua-cam.com/video/7h9EecmLatY/v-deo.html
Remember, every time you brake or go downhill in the Leaf, the car switches into charging mode! This could happen dozens of times per hour while driving. The number of charges is not a problem; there is no maximum.
Thirdly, V2G does not invalidate Nissan's battery warranty. Nissan is an extremely keen and active player in this trial. Should we discover our battery suffers unduly, Nissan's warranty will kick in and replace it - not that we expect that to happen. That fact alone is a huge comfort in letting our car and its battery be used in this way. We have lost 1.6% or just over 3 miles of our range in our first year with V2G. Given the lack of vehicle use during this strange year, we genuinely believe V2G has helped maintain our battery's health.
Have a look at these links: is.gd/V2GLink1 • is.gd/V2GLink2 • is.gd/V2GLink3
Thank you for watching, don't let yourself become a victim of oil company propaganda and try not to be so pessimistic! 😊👍