@@Ronbotnik They should remaster Tekken 6 add some of the new characters no rage art, no power crush no heat just Tekken they can decide if they want to replace bounds with tornado tailspin or not
Yeah heat is just way to much in my opinion as well. There is already so many aggression aspects to the combat now, but with Heat engagers that have armor to them? Or with Frame advantage? It feels very overwhelming
It doesnt punish you enough in a reasonable way, Ragearts are a get out of jail free card sure, but Powercrushes are fine, they should bring counterhits back to their former glory so you can punish people for mashing in your face with a good read
Yeah like eddy's. At least it's duckacble. Nina Williams annoying ass mid power crush heat enganger is so stupid. It should be launch punishable imo because damn do Nina players love spamming that move.
I'm gonna sound like such a fucking boomer here but: since when did Tekken need mechanic bloat? Honestly from all of the fighting games that I played the reason I flocked to Tekken at the time was simply because it was a game where you had access to your entire toolkit 99% of the time with minor exceptions. There was no meter, there were little in the way of any special system mechanics like they have in anime fighters, and the combos weren't as difficult as they were in SF4 at the time when I got into tag 2. Fast forward 10 years and now Tekken has meter and like 20 different options associated with it including ways to get into it and I'm like: I am genuinely faling out of love with this franchise at this point. Heat has some interesting aspects in terms of decision making. do you use your heat bursts in combos, do you use a heat engager instead, do you pop heat burst out in the open to get access to it, but idk. that kind of decision making in a game as fast paced (it still is) like Tekken just doesn't sit well with me. What it ends up boiling down to is just a flowchart of decisions for heat: Did you launch? pop heart burst for the damage Did you not launch yet? Fish for a heat engager Are you down in life and need a comeback? Pop raw heart burst and do a heat dash for ez pressure and mixes It just feels bloated af to me, like I just can't believe that you have at least 2 free "I play the game now" buttons per round is just madness.
Make all heat smashes evadeable to the left and / or right like some already are and increase the amount of gauge you lose if you get hit while in heat imo
For me the heat mechanic outside of cool combos overshadows too much of fundamental Tekken gameplay. The heatbursts and (too many) heatsmashes beat to many other options: Sidestep, sometimes backdash because of their huge range, parry/lowparry, powercrushes and even for throws you have to be close up. And because they are armored themselves you cannot interrupt them like rage drives. So even if you know it's coming you have too few counterplay options except taking it. This reduces the overall influence that skill has on the game. Same for the many forced 50/50s after heatengagers, heatdashes at the wall or after blocked heatsmashes. It doesnt matter if you are the best player in the world or some random scrub who started with T8, you have to guess and take the mixup. And since heat is so easily accessible and present every round people can rely on pushing their advantage and chip dmg during heat. If they are successful with their 50/50 they might not need to ever block in that round. Real defense ( beyond guessing) is not as important anymore for mid to intermediate ranks ( including blue ranks in T8). That is why as someone who played previous Tekkens you feel that you face more opponents that lack block punishment, movement, whiff punishment punishment, throwbreaking etc than your enemies before. Because of heat they can have such a strong offense that it compensates for their horrendous basics in fundamental Tekken. Mixed in with that you have a historic amount of pluggers. That means many opponents in blue ranks feel like mighty rulers from T7 at best. If heat gets toned down to where it does not overshadow so much of fundamental Tekken, then the gameplay will become more nuanced and interesting to play and watch again. Even playing with the same friend from T7 with the same characters it does not feel as good or interesting. During T7 we played for hours on end. But since the eddy patch I completely stopped playing T8 even with friends. And I will only comeback if they fundamentally make this game more Tekken and less braindead heat than it is now. I even started playing T7 again.
Same. I started playing T7 again. I had the weirdest feeling like after closing a T8 session I felt compelled to reinstall T7, and couldn't really point my finger to why I had such a strong feeling. Currently trying to make cheatengine work under WINE to disable rage and rage arts on T7 (I had it previously on Win) One additional thing that I have not seen discussed much: heat just looks BORING, a kind of soulless flashy that's so heavy handed that instead of being exciting makes you yawn
@@v8superspecial it was cool during the honeymoon phase but after I've seen it hundreds times and know the absurd frames and properties of heat moves... yes it gets old fast.
I feel kinda vindicated when I predicted that a game in which defense is already hard enough as it is, will have even harder defense in a game with buffed pressure ngl
To me the biggest issue is that every round you start with heat I think building up meter strategically placing your power buff is a cool idea, even tho I'm not a fan of the system But every round? I'm desensitized. Oversaturation
Heat and Rage Arts feel like mechanics invented to create trailer hype. They get crowds cheering at showcases - but once the game is out and you actually play it, everyone realises how unnecessary and game-ruining both are. TEKKEN never needed either
Honestly they should give us a "Classic" mode in the game. No heat. No rage. No chip damage. No recoverable health. No armored move. No homing move. No installs. No tornado move. We almost back to Tekken 5 baby!
I have a better idea. Remove Heat entirely. Introduce a classic Tekken 8 mode, much like a team battle or time attack. Just a classic Tekken 8 mode with no BS mechanics, just straight up classic Tekken. How much you want to bet everyone will flock to that mode like moths to a flame. It’s already been established since atleast TTT2 or heck even T6, that the more mechanics they try to tack on to this series the more problems it faces. It’s generally accepted that T5DR was the last true Tekken. And then what came after? T6 Bound and rage. And the sh!t snowballed from there. Why do you think Tekken revolution was so alluring at first? No more excessive juggles, or tag mechanics. But that free to play game had special moves, Stat power ups and broken invincible moves which is why I remember players setting up rooms forbidding such things. I saw So many player sessions of people craving some sense of normalcy again and kicking people for their excessive stats. But even Tekken Rev suffered because of “added special mechanics”. Why do they feel the need to add all these ridiculous mechanics to appeal to casuals? Surely there’s a better way to simplify the game just enough to draw in and keep new players? The thing is, simple or not….if you like a game and it’s characters enough, you’ll stick with it until you get better. It’s like this with first person shooters like COD, and that series makes bank each year, meaning casuals flock to it and play multiplayer, and they get shredded but they keep at it. I feel like this artificial hand holding strategy we are seeing now is breeding the very players devs keep struggling to appease and pushing legacy players and making them feel repulsed by these changes. Look at Soul Calibur 2, most SC fans would say it’s the best one in the series, and it doesn’t barely have any juggles, and it’s easy to pick up and play. The skill and fun is in the neutral and getting reads, you know, like actual combat? And it’s a Bamco game from like 2002. And it still holds up today with lots tourneys. Meanwhile SC6 with its stupid over the top mechanics had alienated practically everyone and is a mess. Where is it now? It’s irrelevant and dumped by the way side. So there’s one easy solution to all of this. K.I.S.S. Keep it Simple Stupid. Less is more. Stop trying to appease. Stop trying to force a square peg in a round hole. Newcomers and new blood will naturally come and fall into place, just let things flow naturally. Elden Ring made bank and then some, so it’s not a question of “let’s make things easier for new players, to make more money” cuz with that formula you’re going to lose more players than you gain in the long run and deface your long standing brand. Tekken is the goat, and when it’s arguably at it’s worst like with broken gameplay in T4 or too much noise like in TTT2, it’s still the most appealing out of all the 3D and 2D fighters combined.
Im ngl you give me commentator vibes I love your vids usually have you on my second monitor when im doing homework and just relaxing around. Keep up the vids man I like your insight on stuff not just tekken, but just in general. I hope to see you grow more brother.
I agree Heat only being available once per Match would really open up too more Tactical Fights, do you use it early in a Match too get the Upper hand or wait for the Last Round too Close out a Match, would be very interesting too see how people would use Heat, if it was once per Match.
dear lord no. heat is the only thing that gives you at least 1 second to breathe it’s the best panic button in the game and universal to everyone most of the cast doesn’t need heat for their hyper aggressive rush down anyway so at least everybody has access to a lets calm down button
honestly itd be nice if they decrease the range of the the heat burst. it hits from soo far away and its impossible to whiff punish, make it steppable OR SOMETHING. WHY DOES STEPPING SUCK SOO BAD? OMG THE TRACKING
I thought I was the only one. I'm not familiar playing Tekken 7 completive myself but sidestepping feels so much better than Tekken 8. Even tag tournament 1 has better side step than 8
@@dances_with_incels the stepping is proly exactly the same but the hitboxes of attacks definitely have a wider range. moves that youd easily evade before practically require precognition to dodge now.
The candle that burns twice as bright, lasts only half as long. Honestly, I think Heat would be bonkers if they kept everything the same EXCEPT only giving you access to it once in a whole set. I'm of the school of thought that Heat should be scary, it should be a serious threat. But like, what happens when you're riding the adrenaline rush of literally fighting for your life? It's fleeting, it's brief, and you're more spent than a burnt fuse when it goes away. Keep the robbery potential, but only give each player access to Heat for their choice of 1 round for the whole set.
Facts….thinking of it now…it’s already enough that certain characters can perform hits and regain Heat Meter. Some other characters can Heal off Heat. On top of that, we have Rage Art(which should also be used Once a SET)💯. It’s already enough💯
Completely agree with your takes Hollow. - Armored Heat Engagers are just cancer and need to go. Nina, Azucena, Eddy, Shaheen, Victor. Every time I fight one of these characters I have to worry about them throwing an armored nuke to steal their turn or the player leans so heavily on the move its embarrassing, not for them, but for the designers of the game who thought it would be okay/fun to deal with. - Heat Dashes should not be +17 on block when your back is to the wall. Anywhere on the screen if an opponent does a heat dash move on block they are only +5 which means you can step, but if you happen to be at the wall theyre suddenly +17 which means free 50/50 mixup, and they just did a chunk of chip. THIS SHIT NEEDS TO GO. Make Heat Dashes +4or5 EVERYWHERE. - Heat Burst needs to no longer track or reach halfway across damn the screen. They also should not be plus on block or hit. Make them STRICTLY a combo extender or a defensive tool that RESETS to neutral. Right now they're used to steal turns and continue pressure as well. Completely overpowered button. Losing 25% of your Heat bar to activate isn't much of a penalty in a game where you can die in 2 touches. Also, controversial take; Heat Bursts shouldn't do real damage ONLY grey health. That way people cant use them as a safe armored way to close out rounds like they do now. Also for god sakes make them slower/actually lose to throws and lows like they're supposed to. Again, its a completely overpowered button. - Heat Smashes need to be more linear, not continue on whiff so they're easier to punish when you step them and the ones that lead into a stance/mixup should be less plus on block. - Heat should be available at Match start and then need to be gained back like meter. If they don't seriously nerf this mechanic then they NEED to make it to where it doesn't happen EVERY round of EVERY match. Like Hollow said, if they don't, the game is gonna have a VERY short lifespan. Especially competitively. This shit was fun for a month but its already boring and super one note. Robbery and Gambling is not a fun way to design a fighting game. No serious player will stick around for that crap and is one of the reasons no one takes MK seriously at a competitive level. - Hot Take: During Heat you should lose access to Armor on Powercrush Moves, including Rage Arts. This would be a huge and worthy tradeoff for how powerful Heat is. You want to go on the offensive? Fine, but you lose access to your turn stealing abilities until heat is gone. This, coupled with heat actually depleting when you are being hit, would make people really think about when and how they activate and make it scarier even when they have activated. - Lastly, Throws shouldn't track. Its stupid and doesn't make sense in Tekken and the reasons are obvious. This isn't Soul Calibur, Namco. That May patch better be heading in the right direction, or A LOT of people are going to drop/lose faith in this game, me being one of them. Which sucks because I absolutely love Tekken. But Tekken 8, even past all the battlepass and MTX bs, is not Tekken because of the systems they've put into the game. Hollow said it best; When both players are out of heat is when I find myself having the most fun with the game. To me that's a sign that they've made a big mistake with how heat is implemented.
it doesn’t make sense that your heat burns if your blocking but if you get hit and you’re in a combo it barely takes your heat away each hit. i think you should lose more heat if you’re getting hit/in a combo
you shouldn't be getting punished for blocking chip damage and losing heat on block can be way too much sometimes and it's probably making the playerbase mash more instead blocking
You "Pause" the wrong parts like when you say "Pop it raw" it didn't need a pause but @3:59 When you said "When your taking it" that needed a "Pause" 😂
System change ideas: Remove power crush completely Remove armored heat engagers completely During heat you take more damage but you move faster İf you are in both heat and rage Rage damage is removed During heat sidestepping And whiff punishing restores Small amount of heat (Insert your own system changes here)
getting into a rage state in T7 was already an opportunity to comeback as your damage increased, so the opponent had to finish you off fast to not let you get that chance. Heat & Rage is plain stupid, cause it’s already two comeback mechanics and if both players have those by the end of the round it drastically lowers the pace of the fight because both are just afraid to move so that aggression they keep talking about goes out of the window
Heat just negates neutral, it's a toxic mechanic and they failed T8 because of it. It needs an overhaul, all of them need to be step able, they need to make them all unsafe on block and the meter should be earned throughout the rounds because atm it's just every round plays the same you're playing with a loaded gun and can shoot it at any moment of the round and undo any mistakes and put your opponent in a dumb situation where they are forced to guess and your just robbing them the round.
IMO, heat isnt the problem. Its the fact every character except a very select few have TONS of safe or even PLUS panic buttons that remove their hitbox as a target. Jin's Dive Kick, Devil Jins flying, as well Azucena and Ling's entire movelist, all reward people for mindlessly headbutting their keyboard. Theres also less ways to punish people for mashing in your face, counterhits care now basically not a thing, a LOT of moves were made safer than they should be in Tekken 7, theres safe launchers, and I cant magic 4 people out of existence for being scrubby. Tekken NEEDS its counterhits back if its going to have heat, because as it stands, forced mixups make me stand still and block no matter what, and then heat PUNISHES me for doing so with chip damage.
For azucena try to learn they're lows and parry em, for Ling try not to get too close and don't use many highs, devil jin has almost no safe on block moves so just learn those few and you should be fine, and unless you wanna risk, any morning crow hit can be blocked since there's no low morning crow or even flying low hit, morning crow has a special heat smash during morning crow but it's rarely used and only good if it kills, and flying has only a grab that's mostly used in combos and laser, but just side step, jin's dive kick is kinda rare, easily sidesteppable, easy to block, it's plus on block has no really important follow up so don't worry much about em, azucena is kinda op needs to be nerfed, Ling is mostly annoying, but that's also because she's kinda rare, but she doesn't deal much damage, devil jin is not as op as it seems, he has close to no safe on block move, and his launchers are not that op so ye hits hard but mostly with normal moves, his combos tend to be quite short, so just learn how to counter the moves, and try not to get launched, and the latter is very easy to do, and jin is kinda decently balanced, he has some op stuff, but I'd say he's the most defaultish character of the game after paul so simply learn how to deal with him, most of the characters that you feel are op, are actually not that strong, some have some very op moves that will likely be nerfed soon, but most of the time they're not really that op, they just have like one or two very good moves, and you just gotta learn how to deal with em.
I play Kazuya. And I feel like his heat is actually what the devs should try to implement to the rest of the cast. His powered up devil moves use a lot heat. The powered up demon paw doesn’t take a lot of heat, but it’s not that powerful. And pretty much resets the neutral. His d/b1,2~heat dash is really strong. But it doesn’t give a full combo. His heat smash is a powered up hellsweep, but it’s not that strong. Idk I feel like his heat is a perfect balance. He’s definitely stronger, but not broken. And there’s a lot of counter play to his heat. They just need to use this route for the top tiers and the game will be ok.
The best way ive been able to put it. Tekken is a great game that is being smothered and ruined by bad mechanics. The balance will be adjusted, but all these mechanics are here to stay and seem to be more important than the core game. It feels like im playing the mechanics and not the game
I like the points you made Mike, especially about the Heat bar. I like the idea of it being divided into two...where the first half is your window to do maybe a couple moves in Heat, and follow it up with the heat special move. Or, if you really need the extra advanced moves in Heat, you can use them for the entire bar but after that half way point you loose access to that heavy hitting special. Another thing you mentioned that I'd like to touch on is about the "This is Tekken" situation. I'd like to offer a different explanation that might be a little more in line with what you mentioned in previous videos, which is Heat, chip damage, all the aggressiveness that Tekken 8 is, IS Tekken 8, but it just needs to be adjusted. I think you've said it perfectly by giving the examples of previous Tekken games that they had their time in the arcades and all that time to balance and fine tune them before they released them on consoles, so it'll take some time to get everything right. So although I personally like the Heat system cause it adds something new and exciting to Tekken, I too would like to see some adjustments so that it stays in the game and doesn't seem so broken to fans of the series.
Heat should be once per game and you should have to build the meter with character specific moves. (Heat Moves) As a SF player, I put about 150 hours into T8 and I had so much fun but the lack of consistent defensive options and emphasis on 50/50s made me sour on the overall enjoyment. I haven't played in a few weeks but I enjoy following the game. Keep your foot on these devs neck Mike! 💪🏾
This video is the truth. I never liked the idea of Heat and Chip Damage being in Tekken. Tekken was fine the way it was as a tactical fighting game based in reality as closely as possible. I hate that this is the direction the devs have chosen to go with - The Esports Route. The casual fans doesn't like, nor understand the old way Tekken played out. To them it is just two players backdashing all day with little interaction between them. As a result the game seemed boring to them at the highest Esports level. To mend this, the devs have gone with this aggressive vision they have for Tekken 8. Heat, Chip Damage, lack of "infinite stages", as well as this new TWT rule that prevents you from picking a stage after you lose a match, these are all against the old way of playing Tekken. The thing that these devs are trying to "mend" in an attempt to please a casual Esports audience is what made Tekken beautiful to watch at the highest level. Nothing better than watching a Tekken veteran limiting the offensive options of his opponent simply by using movement. I recently heard Speedkicks in Spag's Tekken Podcast HeatSpeak say that between brain dead defence and brain dead offense, he prefers brain dead offense. It may seem boring and brain dead what these players are doing at the highest level, but on the contrary it takes a high level of understanding and experience to play at that level and it was beautiful to watch. Watching those players play inspired many of us to improve our own game play, and maybe play like them one day. But with this new age Tekken, what will the new players be inspired to do? Mash more? Heat and Chip Damage can go, may this be the last Tekken to implement these 2D mechanics. Although I have a feeling they are here to stay and will be a staple for Tekken from here on out. So I am pleased to have witnessed real Tekken by watching those high level Tekken players, some of the best days of being a Tekken fan.
Tekken 7 was literally my first Tekken and second fighting game. I was able to play characters like Eliza, Julia, Mishima's by putting in the necessary time and effort and the things that were too execution heavy really weren't that many I could do most stuff after putting in the effort. Korean back dash is difficult but if I really focused even I could chain 2 or 3 backdashes. I was playing FPS games mainly, and mkx and sc6. So, I really don't understand the need to make the game simpler for new comers. In fact, it's disrespectful even to the newcomers in my opinion. Whether it's making offense easier and defence weaker or removing execution requirements it's disrespectful.
It pisses me of that u can be so braindead with it like heat burst is like +1 and heat smash is also + on Block that’s so weird when I block his special especially heat smash let me punish him or atleast let it be my turn
I have always said "Why am I FORCED into heat on certian moves? Why can I force the heat to not activate?" There are so many GOOD moves characters have that are tied to heat engagers (Kuma Back1 which is an unsafe power crush heat engager). It would stop a lot of aggression the game FORCES on top of giving players more agency over their heat.
Yes. This is the one suggestion I forgot and remembered as I uploaded. It was also one of my original gripes. Why force me? Maybe I don't wanna be spicy right now 😫 Harada wants us to be in rabid dog mode at all times but maybe I wanna pop God Mode later on.
In the current state Heat engagers are so strong that it's the best option to go into heat. It's much stronger than heat bash or no heat. If they nerf heat or make it only once per match it must be optional though.
That heat gauge reminds me of Bloody Roar: Primal Fury. You obtain the bar by attacking and you can change when it's full. Then you'll lose it gradually or quickly if you get hit. Damn I miss that game.
As a Ling main, the amount of damage her back stance heat smash gives is not okay. I have stolen so many games doing it into Hypnotist stance mix. It should do half the damage for the amount of reward I get off it. Or it should do reduced damage depending on the remaining gauge like you suggested.
Agreed that heat is frustrating, and when I'm playing against a practice dummy it's a lot more fun when it's deactivated for both characters. But while there's a lot to hate about T8, there's a lot that I really enjoy. That they're trying to make the game more accessible is something I can get behind. The game looks beautiful. Ghost battles are awesome. Practice mode is better than ever, as are the replays. And this might seem like a small thing, but sidestepping feels SO MUCH BETTER, I feel like I get a reward for doing it well. Time will tell if the game drops off, and it's good to make our opinions known, but like many have said, this is the equivalent of arcade release -- hopefully the game will get some patches and criticisms will be listened to.
I think its fine as a mechanic but it is a bit too strong and inconsistent with the heat smashes. Grabs need to not be homing, I personally think that is the most important system change. Heat smashes should just do less damage and be more punishable on block or whiff. i think the way you choose between heat burst as a get off me tool or heat engage to regain health is a cool mechanic and gives you one free get out of jail card a round. But all in all homing grabs gotta go!
Homing grabs are one thing, but the extended grab ranges by holding Foward on certain chars from Tekken 7 were worse IMHO. I still think it's in the game and whiff grabs sometimes. 😂
They should reduce how long heat lasts significantly and reduce the damage of heat smashes. Also make them stepable for counterplay because they just favor the attacker and that messes up game balance overall.
It's not about it floating, it's about it being the reality. This IS Tekken now, however, the point of this video is to point out it's issues, not deny it's existence.
In a comment I left in an upload of yours a few days ago I shared the idea of modularity of gameplay systems as a way to let the community curate the game they want to play. But until that happens we have fighting games adding various subsystems to experiment or bedazzle a new entry. It's kinda sorta the playerbase's fault. I've seen lots of gamers, usually of the faux artisan types, who lament 'originality' in games. They claim every release should be wholly innovative to please their sensibilities (despite their library being full of sequels and remakes). There's an element of that in the FGC as well. If Tekken 8 didn't have Rage or Heat I'd be 100% fine with it because I don't have a silly notion that franchises "need" to evolve. I don't care. I wanna play exactly the same game, forever, with generational bumps in fidelity and modern online systems with each iteration. The downfall of so many franchises was because certain fans and producers has a wacky unnecessary concept that "it needs to change". It doesn't. I literally wanna play Tekken 5 forever. But here's the thing; if Tekken 8 didn't launch with Rage and Heat and cinematic finishers an annoyingly large part of the playerbase will think it's flawed. That goes past to the commercial viability point I made last time. This is inescapable. We want to play chess with crazy martial artists, but most people want a power fantasy. A playable anime. At best we can call for balancing of these features but honestly a toggle would solve all of that.
I disagree and and agree. On one hand, games shouldn’t be forced to evolve. On another, if you stay the same, people are going to start viewing your games as being lazily made(as seen with COD). So I think change is for the betger
@@j.i.nthenobody54 I would say that a mere *perception* of a game being stale doesn't necessarily translate to a sales issue, while the last decade's attempts to evolve long going game series has more often hurt the franchise. Now if the underlying gameplay of a franchise is stale and it was really the notoriety or cultural recognition that carried the series (MK, arguably Gears of War, other 'right time right place' franchises) then yes games will be exposed as stale and changes need to occur. But I'm talking situations where nothing was broken but they try to fix it. The number of series that came back to life by *returning* to its mechanical roots takes my argument from speculation to industry fact.
@@Kalyx while that statement about games being revived via sticking to their roots is true, eventually, you have to change. The same game gets boring after a while. You can’t just re-release a game every 10 years and expect people to be happy(Skyrim)
@@j.i.nthenobody54 Elder Scrolls, just being honest, was never a particularly good game. It's an example of my point that certain games coasted on some other element that had a half-life. In this case all I ever heard of Elder Scrolls was its then unprecedented freedom and scale ("Maps so big, and I can stock up on random goblets wow!") and the mods. That's it. Nothing about gameplay, which always looked ho-hum. All that happened was at some point gamers saw what I always saw. But you also became an example of my main point: You say games need to evolve at some point, for more or less no reason. Just iterate for iteration's sake. Despite agreeing with my supporting arguments about how sales don't really correlate with this edict.. So you'll take a popular game series, change it after the initial trilogy of successful games (roughly a decade or so), *fail* for a few tries, and then after burning millions of dollars and possibly incurring layoffs - you say, "Oh with the next entry we've heard the fans, we're going back to the roots of _________," and we can't wait for you to come back," bla bla bla. The difference is mechanical quality. Most Halo fans can play Halo 3 forever. Most Tekken fans can play Tekken 5 forever. Evidently most Madden fans could play Madden 15 until just last year. All I'm saying is evolve *when you need to*, not because of an arbitrary need to change the formula. Ask SNK fans which one of them would play KoF12 forever. None.
thats why there is heat and rage art… so you can’t just mash. pls mash vs someone that has his rage art up. mash vs someone that has his heat burst rdy. i get why people are frustrated because they just mash into every rage heat etc there is and get frustrated because they got hit yes it’s a problem that heat bursts are crazy on block i can see that as a problem but this can and will be all fixed imo
You make a lot of great points. You even touched on my biggest gripe with Heat. It’s little to no counter play. You have to hold it. That’s contradictory to 3D fighters, which are known for always having options available. If the aggressor is +17 after a Heat Dash, why does the defender only have the option of guessing? Not even a side step? Nothing? lol
Typing this in the work bathroom😂. As feng, his 3+4 shouldn't give a free stop when they lie on the ground for free damage, and I don't think it should be so plus that they can't step because the sweep is supposed to at least catch that. Universally, if the heat dash jails into a low, you should be able to hopkick or low parry, it makes the fact that you can't side step so bad. And I learned this recently. There's more but I don't have much time 😅
Agreed that some minor tweaks could make a positive difference. The risk reward in heat smash is kinda crazy. Good for making new players feel like they can do something powerful but definitely gets a bit tiresome. Think it would be a positive if heat smash was less safe than it is today
Regarding chip damage, I think they should take it out completely but leave recoverable health. Obviously, that means that only combos generate recoverable health. This way, you still reward aggressive play by you gaining your health back, but don't you don't get punished for being defensive, as not all people like/can play rushdown. For armored high heat engagers, they should all be punishable, especially very fast ones like Victor's and Azucena's. Yes, they lose to ducking, which is historically why all high power crushes were safe, but when it also leads to forced 50/50s, they should also be a bit risky.
Heat should just linked to the entire set than just the round. And idk if it should still be completely full at the start but imo it heat should become something we build throuout the set. Tekken needs meter management to at add another level of skill and some match tension that might be even increases spectator enjoyment.
Heat should be a more risk based mechanic. Have the burst and smashes be completely sidesteppable and have the smash be launch punishable on block. Heat engager moves that are also power crushes should not be a thing. Its fucking stupid. Either remove the engager or remove the power crush, you should not have both in one move. Heat engager moves in general should be optional, have the player hold forward or something if they want to activate it. Adding to the risk factor, if the opponent blocks your heat engager your meter decreases by a set quarter which can make your heat mode much shorter as you activate it. Heat engager should give you the option to dash to your opponent or to stand your ground. The former costing an extra bit of heat. Chip Damage on certain moves without heat should be minimal at best. Chip should be removed from While Running moves. Chip in heat should be nerfed a bit as well. The most amount of Chip you should do is less than of quarter. I could literally go on. I gave heat a fair shot up to the release, but about 250 hours in, I honestly believe that Tekken 8 will not make it to Season 3 at the very least if Namco don't make a major overhaul to the game... its insane how they nerfed this mechanic so many times even before the betas and somehow now, it's still broken unga bunga garbage. This game in general besides visuals and music is an extreme disappointment in my eyes and makes me hate modern fighting games even more. And I already dont like T7.
Not gonna lie I’m surprised people don’t really talk about recoverable health too much. Having the opportunity to recover health while getting hit is a poor way to extend the round IMO, especially considering most heat engagers are power mids or long range pokes that are useful in neutral. There are many instances where an opponent is down to the magic pixel and have an opportunity to recover a quarter of their health back through a heat engager and it honestly just delegitimizes comebacks. Also Jun’s heat smash, do I even need to elaborate?
I'm afraid introducing damage scaling to Heat would make it so that people will only use it in certain situations, reducing variety in matches. Especially if this applied to Heat Smashes! But personally, I wouldn't mind Heat Dash being removed from the game. We don't need more combo extensions...
There are so many things that needs to be addressed for Tekken 8 and it seems really hard to figure out where to start, apart from the pluggers and cheaters. If I were Bamco, I would start by removing the autonomous heat activation and experiment with only allowing heat activation from certain moves, thus only enabling heat from a combo, bait or setup, not just arbitrarily activating it and using armor to eat a hit. The second thing would be to either remove heat smashes or strongly nerf them, the smashes are too oppresive, too rewarding for the risk involved and they are certainly not equal across the cast. Also if you hit a heat smash, make it so you don't get to mixup the person that got hit, they should be able to get up freely. Work out the further balance from that onwards. And for f***'s sake, nerf the overtuned stuff and stop buffing everything. The game shouldn't be Button Mashers 2024.
And some characters have 2 heats smashes which is think is bs. Jun and Shaheen have a low heat smash from their stances. Those are the only two that I’m aware of, but it’s bs man.
Biggest change I would do with the heat system would be to reduce its damage; and also, while juggling an opponent, if a bound/tornado was already executed, then the heat engager wouldn't bound the opponent, and vice-versa. As for the chip damage, again, reducing its damage, but also make it as characters won't take any chip damage once they reached the rage mark.
I recall arslan ash saying this earlier about heat. The matches eventually get repetitive if their are so many heat attacks that just put you in so many 50/50 checkmate situations. And when u play a character like lee with a heat that gives u attacks u can already do perfectly fine that are all highs, it makes it feel characters weren’t made equally.
Meters do not belong in Tekken. They put meters in Soul Calibur and effectively killed the franchise. They put meter in Tekken 7 for 2D characters and everybody disliked that. I mean Tekken 8 is a decent fighting game but not a good Tekken game. As a Tekken player since Tekken 2, I agree with Knee and Arslan. This ain't good Tekken. Hope it gets better 🤞
My biggest problem with this game is garunteed moves. Like kings untechable throws in heat. There so many other examples but moves with no counter play should never be a thing
I feel like heat should be an option either you do your rage art or the heat system to extend said combo kinda like either going into do say hit a button or be more skillfully so more damage for a reason with heat. but if you use heat would early bar will increase the timer of it for people who use rage can either press button while the skillful player can use it and make mroe useful damage for them.
Yeah I wish there was no heat and ragearts. So many matches start out great but then one player starts using ragearts and all the following rounds devolve into finding the best moment to use them. And then some people basically open with the heat smash and don't even do anything else with their heat. It can be a fun mechanic when you don't do that.
My hot take is tekken should have become a two round game with timer increased and damage globally nerfed by about half. I don't specifically have a problem with the heat system but I do have a problem with homing throws and everytning becoming a 50/50 guess. If I had it my way, they would have removed rage arts and kept drives instead and all heat smashes launch punishable and no homing. Id even go so far to say heat maybe should be once per match
I have watched new players try this game out and absolutely love it compared to Tekken 7. Which is great but over time it's not going to keep the players, even pros are quitting. I don't like how heat is activated turning you into a boss character. I feel having it similar to a traditional meter would be better. 3 bars for heat smash, 1 to do a heat burst or 2 for a heat dash? After writing this I'm starting to read this and think it's a dumb idea 😂
They should remove heat and rage arts completely for a full year and remove throw tracking. After that year no one would want any of those back. Honestly heat should be in social play and removed from ranked and competitive play, or just have it below orange ranks to help out newbies. Bamco should let Tekken be Tekken.
The thing is Tekken 7 is more defensive game. Yet I see a lot of people playing aggressively and doing well. Seeing Tekken 8 go all out on that idea with weak defensive play is a bad idea.
As a Jun main, her heat smash being fast is fine considering it takes it ALL away the moment you do it, however the fact I can regain ALOT of health on block is stupid. Nobody is going to risk sidewalking it so it's just a "free" way to get health back when it should ONLY be on hit. Rage arts need to be only once per match, if my opponent only has a pixel and I rush in to be aggressive and finish the job, they just rage art and get damn near 50%. It just takes away all the work and effort I did before that and just rewards the player doing the rageart, the risk and reward is so skewed. Heat burst when blocked should leave you minus, why am I, the blocking player getting punished for doing the right thing and guessing right in blocking?
I got off after 6 ,always been a casual ,hated tag 2, did not like 7 and this is just not for me but playing 6 recently is great fun especially in couch a good laugh.
I dont wanna sound like I'm bragging because I really wish I was wrong, but I was calling heat and aggressive gameplay being bad choices since the moment I heard it. I am kinda hopeful though because lately I've seen many others call it out as well
I hated it then and I hate it now it’s too much. You have rage art, rage damage, armored attacks that all can make and break a game at times. To me that was enough to help less skilled players and I was all for it in T7. Was it annoying to have someone against the ropes you’re about to kill them and they armor or rage art and kill me? Yea but they had real easy counters especially for how easy they were to use. If you used a rage art and it didn’t land you were in trouble. Heat is obnoxious and just unnecessary. You can literally turn the tide of a fight just by using it while literally getting outplayed the entire round. With a game where there is so many options to attack from adding heat is just over kill and allows less skilled players beat more skilled players off of a system that literally turns the game into 2d and making already op characters to god like. I honestly only use heat when someone activates theirs just to keep them at bay. Before someone’s says why would they make it just like T7 adding heat isn’t the only thing that makes T8 different from T7 and that’s a cop out to a real argument. Small details add up to make a game different. I love a lot about T8 but heat will kill this game the same way the absurd damage killed Tag2
Heat should just be a normal super meter, since that’s clearly what inspired it. Instead of having chip damage for every move during heat, just have chip damage for the heat moves. Instead of heat being full at the start of the match, earn it over time by attacking your opponent. If you get hit during heat, you should have the ability to use some of your heat in exchange for less damage done to you.
i think it’s funny that people cry all day about the game mechanics. i don’t care that game mechanics are broken as long as both players have access to it. rage art is fine heat is fine power crush is fine whats not ok is that some characters are just so much better in heat than others. tbh heat should have been just for combo extension as a panic button and as a finisher but not give some characters totally new mechanics entirely i mean why can law FULL LAUNCH from a 111 jab string? why can he launch with a safe mid that tracks to both sides and is 95% of the time 100% safe with 1+2? while other characters gain literally no new stuff in heat at all that’s the only crazy part about heat but i highly believe everything will be fixed at some point
Thats the one thing about T8 that kinda disappointed me for the most part. They went a little too heavy on the flashy spectacle stuff, rather than fine tuning the core mechanics like Tekken 7 did. Half the time it feels like an anime fighter like Naruto Ninja Storm rather than standard Tekken imo. Its like they tried merging Soul Calibur 6's comeback system and ducktaped it into Tekken, without any consideration for how much can be exploited. I just wish there was a happy medium for a modern fighting games not becoming too braindead, as every game nowadays feels obligated to dumbing everything down, just to appease newcomers who were already gonna get wrecked with or without those changes. Just seems pretty shortsighted on the devs part. I can kinda see why some consider Tekken 8 as a spin off title, from that perspective.
I've been playing Tekken since 3 and enjoyed everything until Tekken 7. After watching some of your videos and reading other people's perspectives on the latest changes, I think I'm... Slightly less stubborn to the changes? But man, there's just been SO MANY. I didn't mind the combo system getting adjusted for a new twist, but the armored attacks, rage drives, and rage arts were such an annoying stack to deal with all at once. I get it, I guess. New players need comback mechanics and more options. It's just super weird, because some characters blatantly had better armor atracks than others. I'm willing tolerate Rage Drives and allow it to have armor and accept the combo method being changed, but I wish everything else was taken away. Now Tekken 8? Haven't played it yet and don't know if I ever will. The heat system is just so absurd. And having the pace of the match interrupted with cutscenes is nerve racking... It's bad enough to be forced to rage art cutscenes that lasts 10 seconds. It just seem rage inducing. Too many new tools. Tekken is becoming a 3D Street Fighter. Just HOW much help does a new player need to get into the game, honestly?
As a new player and pretty casual a highly agree. I found myself not using heat really at all as I was learning the game to honestly be easier. Later on after I knew some punishments and combos I started to implement heat strategies. But I think a lot of other players can get caught up in spamming heat/heat smash moves and just abusing it. I kinda wish there was a mode with no heat or rage art just hands and feet...
I want heat to remain a relevant mechanic, I see some people saying it should be used once per match but I disagree, I like having it every round. I like heat it makes the game more fun to watch and play but it does need to be toned down a bit. The chip is w/e to me, I feel like you recover so much life that it doesn''t matter too much. I like that tekken 8 plays and feels different. I don't want it to be like like T5 and up, I have been there done that.
My personal issues with heat is the fact of heat burst being a "steal your turn" button in the way it literally freezes your opponent long enough for you to now be at +1. The tracking on heat burst is also ridiculous; I can see characters realigning during the little heat burst cutscene while you might be waking damn near behind them. It's no coincidence that this Tekken game has the most higher ranking players that have no defense. The game only promotes proper defense at a very high level, and its insulting at times to destroy a Raijin or Kishin Azucena/Dragunov/Jun/King becuse you can see their "knowledge" is nothing more than 50/50 you after frame advantage and then mash heat burst or powercrush while under the slightest bit of pressure. And we can't even blame players for how they are playing, because this is what the game is so blatantly encouraging as meta - literal mash FTW.
I think either: leave heat in its current form, and have it once per MATCH, or heavily, heavily nerf heat, and keep it at once per ROUND. atm, heat makes the game insufferable.
After MainMan released his T8 tier list video, I actually stopped playing Victor and started playing Steve. I quickly got to Bushin rank with Victor and it's clear why. But since switching to Steve my victories definitely feel more satisfying in comparison. Because he is not a easy character to learn.
Tbh I think all heat smashes should be minus on block not not free plus frames or 40 percent damage bruh heat burst shouldn't have a freeze frame at all should just come out and be stepable the damage should get taken down across the board on them as well also
After 150+hours I still don't like it and I don't enjoy winning with it. Feels super cheap when I use heat. Idk why it's plus, you should be punished for using such a great tool IMO. When everyone uses their heat and are almost at full HP then it becomes fun and then I feel like I play tekken (asides from the horrid balancing issues). I really wanted to refund this game but couldn't due to playtime and get it much cheaper later on when it's actually fun to play (for me) but as of right now I'm only in practice mode, got to fricking raijin easily in about 2 weeks and I don't feel like I deserved it.
10:00 well to be fair towards Jun there have been moments where yea she got her health back but she also has moves where she loes Health when you doge so it kinda balances it out
I feel like they should add an extra tutorial about low parries(maybe it's already there but it didn't have a story chapter so doubt anyone saw it if it's there) I heard it was already in t7(idk I never saw it there) but in t8 is much better since it can parry any type of low and not only low kicks except a few exceptions like low heat smashes, and it's probably the best defense option in the game, and I rarely see it, aside from me low parrying all the time, I never saw anyone else using em except like once every 10 matches or so, it kinda also makes matches less aggressive after many parries, and the low parry makes stupidly op characters like azucena and feng, or very oppressive characters like hwoarang and dragunov much less annoying and in a way, almost feel mid tier, and low parry is actually even easier than it seems, even I at first thought it was hard but the timing is quite forgiving, and most lows animations are actually slower than they seem, like azucena's low kick looks fast but you can see it decently well after a while, and the really really fast lows(like I think jin's 1, 3, 4), after a while get quite predictable after even just 1 round or just fighting the same character in different rounds, and even if low parry doesn't low for big follow ups, when you manage to use it, it really works, I was stuck on a rank from basically the release up until last 2 weeks, and when I learned how to low parry consistently 2 weeks ago I already managed to get promoted twice, and I didn't even change my playstyle much aside one new morning crow combo and ofcs the low parry. I think it can help both the veterans and especially who's new, and often tends to try to play defensive, and it's much easier to learn than sidesteps or kbd.
Heat should not be given for free at start of every round. It should work like a meter in every other fighting game. It has to be built up and managed for the entire match
For me I wouldn’t really mind heat too much if it wasn’t for the fact that Rage Arts also exist. This game gives you too many resources for nothing. If possible they should implement a system where before you queue, you choose heat or rage art, which ever you choose the other can’t be used. If not this at the very least make it so heat smash on block is not so plus
Games already dead to me. Heat is brainless, its a tank move cutscene (1 cutscene a round) Its a heat cutscene attack (2 cutscenes a round) and weve got rage arts (3 cutscenes a round) Chip damage in this game is a complete joke, I defend everything right? Im still at 30%, I just have some dumbass membrane I can regain by using my cutscenes Sidestepping feels worthless, backdashing feels worthless. Throws track sidesteps. Many moves are homing without being homing. Moves have little counterplay or extremely difficult counterplay, Then they proceed to remove counterplay, i.e lars silent entry being countered by rage art now has been changed so you have no options for the 50/50, you just have to take the 50/50 Every character that i came to massively respect at high ranks has been demoralized beaten down and broken, being a high level Jin means nothing anymore. Being a high level devil jin means nothing. Being a high level King means nothing. Hell, I picked up Yoshimitsu for the first time, I havent TOUCHED practice mode, I got to Kishin, this should not be possible. Why? because like every other character, heat is ultra cheap and they gave him hyper abusable strings. I quit weeks ago because everytime I played i genuinely hated it, its 1 match versus an impressive person and 100 matches where it feels like im wasting my time on beta testing poor balance. I honestly hate it, say what you will, but I'll keep watching things to see if we see massive changes, and if we do, Ill come back, but realistically? I wont be coming back, every change they make is in the wrong direction so far, they'd have to utterly redesign most of the systems, theyre not going to do that. Its just not my tekken, too bad, not my problem either, I got my moneys worth, even though 70 is steep for only 100 hours. theyre not getting a dime more from me, nor on the launch of 9, Ill wait a year and see if that ones a shitshow unilaterally, or if its any good.
problem with heat and rage is that tekken has rules but with heat/rage its like this beats all these options except heat/rage so it just makes the rules inconsistent and annoying once you actually understand the rules and makes those mechanics feel even cheaper like why can rage just tank a grab on startup when it beats heat and power crush and heat with alot of characters you just have to sit there and eat blockstrings and uninterruptable 50 50s cause it gives them so much block stun in heat and heat smash
Need a mode without heat and rage
i would play the fuck out of a barebones tekken mode
@@Ronbotnik They should remaster Tekken 6 add some of the new characters no rage art, no power crush no heat just Tekken they can decide if they want to replace bounds with tornado tailspin or not
Its called Tekken 5 Dark Resurrection 😂😂😂
this
Itd get too sweaty i think
Armored heat engagers being safe are just crazy
And they think that it being a high balances it out, I’m super convinced that these clowns don’t play their own game🤡
they need to all have mad recovery frames on block so you can get free untechable grabs or even be launch punishable
If they didn't track so well it wouldn't be as bad
Yeah heat is just way to much in my opinion as well. There is already so many aggression aspects to the combat now, but with Heat engagers that have armor to them? Or with Frame advantage? It feels very overwhelming
heat, power crush, ragearts.... too much scrubbery, the game forces you to be aggressive yet at the same time punishes you for being aggressive wtf
Power crush should definitely not be heat engagers especially safe ones
It doesnt punish you enough in a reasonable way, Ragearts are a get out of jail free card sure, but Powercrushes are fine, they should bring counterhits back to their former glory so you can punish people for mashing in your face with a good read
If you get hit by power crushes and ragearts that much the main scrub in the match is you.
Yeah like eddy's. At least it's duckacble. Nina Williams annoying ass mid power crush heat enganger is so stupid. It should be launch punishable imo because damn do Nina players love spamming that move.
@@rm2328 yeah every Nina is spamming the shit out of that dumb power crush
I'm gonna sound like such a fucking boomer here but: since when did Tekken need mechanic bloat? Honestly from all of the fighting games that I played the reason I flocked to Tekken at the time was simply because it was a game where you had access to your entire toolkit 99% of the time with minor exceptions. There was no meter, there were little in the way of any special system mechanics like they have in anime fighters, and the combos weren't as difficult as they were in SF4 at the time when I got into tag 2.
Fast forward 10 years and now Tekken has meter and like 20 different options associated with it including ways to get into it and I'm like: I am genuinely faling out of love with this franchise at this point.
Heat has some interesting aspects in terms of decision making. do you use your heat bursts in combos, do you use a heat engager instead, do you pop heat burst out in the open to get access to it, but idk. that kind of decision making in a game as fast paced (it still is) like Tekken just doesn't sit well with me.
What it ends up boiling down to is just a flowchart of decisions for heat:
Did you launch? pop heart burst for the damage
Did you not launch yet? Fish for a heat engager
Are you down in life and need a comeback? Pop raw heart burst and do a heat dash for ez pressure and mixes
It just feels bloated af to me, like I just can't believe that you have at least 2 free "I play the game now" buttons per round is just madness.
Make all heat smashes evadeable to the left and / or right like some already are and increase the amount of gauge you lose if you get hit while in heat imo
For me the heat mechanic outside of cool combos overshadows too much of fundamental Tekken gameplay.
The heatbursts and (too many) heatsmashes beat to many other options:
Sidestep, sometimes backdash because of their huge range, parry/lowparry, powercrushes and even for throws you have to be close up. And because they are armored themselves you cannot interrupt them like rage drives.
So even if you know it's coming you have too few counterplay options except taking it.
This reduces the overall influence that skill has on the game.
Same for the many forced 50/50s after heatengagers, heatdashes at the wall or after blocked heatsmashes.
It doesnt matter if you are the best player in the world or some random scrub who started with T8, you have to guess and take the mixup.
And since heat is so easily accessible and present every round people can rely on pushing their advantage and chip dmg during heat.
If they are successful with their 50/50 they might not need to ever block in that round. Real defense ( beyond guessing) is not as important anymore for mid to intermediate ranks ( including blue ranks in T8).
That is why as someone who played previous Tekkens you feel that you face more opponents that lack block punishment, movement, whiff punishment punishment, throwbreaking etc than your enemies before.
Because of heat they can have such a strong offense that it compensates for their horrendous basics in fundamental Tekken.
Mixed in with that you have a historic amount of pluggers. That means many opponents in blue ranks feel like mighty rulers from T7 at best.
If heat gets toned down to where it does not overshadow so much of fundamental Tekken, then the gameplay will become more nuanced and interesting to play and watch again.
Even playing with the same friend from T7 with the same characters it does not feel as good or interesting. During T7 we played for hours on end.
But since the eddy patch I completely stopped playing T8 even with friends.
And I will only comeback if they fundamentally make this game more Tekken and less braindead heat than it is now.
I even started playing T7 again.
Preach. Agreed with everything you said.
Same. I started playing T7 again.
I had the weirdest feeling like after closing a T8 session I felt compelled to reinstall T7, and couldn't really point my finger to why I had such a strong feeling.
Currently trying to make cheatengine work under WINE to disable rage and rage arts on T7 (I had it previously on Win)
One additional thing that I have not seen discussed much: heat just looks BORING, a kind of soulless flashy that's so heavy handed that instead of being exciting makes you yawn
@@v8superspecial it was cool during the honeymoon phase but after I've seen it hundreds times and know the absurd frames and properties of heat moves... yes it gets old fast.
I feel kinda vindicated when I predicted that a game in which defense is already hard enough as it is, will have even harder defense in a game with buffed pressure ngl
Bamco: sorry the best we can do is another shitty battle pass
And nerf Leroy and Kazuya as a precaution
@@deanbrooks7297 and buff drag
To me the biggest issue is that every round you start with heat
I think building up meter strategically placing your power buff is a cool idea, even tho I'm not a fan of the system
But every round? I'm desensitized. Oversaturation
Heat and Rage Arts feel like mechanics invented to create trailer hype. They get crowds cheering at showcases - but once the game is out and you actually play it, everyone realises how unnecessary and game-ruining both are. TEKKEN never needed either
Honestly they should give us a "Classic" mode in the game.
No heat.
No rage.
No chip damage.
No recoverable health.
No armored move.
No homing move.
No installs.
No tornado move.
We almost back to Tekken 5 baby!
I have a better idea. Remove Heat entirely. Introduce a classic Tekken 8 mode, much like a team battle or time attack. Just a classic Tekken 8 mode with no BS mechanics, just straight up classic Tekken. How much you want to bet everyone will flock to that mode like moths to a flame.
It’s already been established since atleast TTT2 or heck even T6, that the more mechanics they try to tack on to this series the more problems it faces. It’s generally accepted that T5DR was the last true Tekken. And then what came after? T6 Bound and rage. And the sh!t snowballed from there.
Why do you think Tekken revolution was so alluring at first? No more excessive juggles, or tag mechanics. But that free to play game had special moves, Stat power ups and broken invincible moves which is why I remember players setting up rooms forbidding such things. I saw So many player sessions of people craving some sense of normalcy again and kicking people for their excessive stats.
But even Tekken Rev suffered because of “added special mechanics”. Why do they feel the need to add all these ridiculous mechanics to appeal to casuals? Surely there’s a better way to simplify the game just enough to draw in and keep new players?
The thing is, simple or not….if you like a game and it’s characters enough, you’ll stick with it until you get better. It’s like this with first person shooters like COD, and that series makes bank each year, meaning casuals flock to it and play multiplayer, and they get shredded but they keep at it.
I feel like this artificial hand holding strategy we are seeing now is breeding the very players devs keep struggling to appease and pushing legacy players and making them feel repulsed by these changes.
Look at Soul Calibur 2, most SC fans would say it’s the best one in the series, and it doesn’t barely have any juggles, and it’s easy to pick up and play. The skill and fun is in the neutral and getting reads, you know, like actual combat? And it’s a Bamco game from like 2002. And it still holds up today with lots tourneys.
Meanwhile SC6 with its stupid over the top mechanics had alienated practically everyone and is a mess. Where is it now? It’s irrelevant and dumped by the way side.
So there’s one easy solution to all of this.
K.I.S.S. Keep it Simple Stupid. Less is more. Stop trying to appease. Stop trying to force a square peg in a round hole. Newcomers and new blood will naturally come and fall into place, just let things flow naturally. Elden Ring made bank and then some, so it’s not a question of “let’s make things easier for new players, to make more money” cuz with that formula you’re going to lose more players than you gain in the long run and deface your long standing brand. Tekken is the goat, and when it’s arguably at it’s worst like with broken gameplay in T4 or too much noise like in TTT2, it’s still the most appealing out of all the 3D and 2D fighters combined.
Im ngl you give me commentator vibes I love your vids usually have you on my second monitor when im doing homework and just relaxing around. Keep up the vids man I like your insight on stuff not just tekken, but just in general. I hope to see you grow more brother.
Thank you, sir. That is high praise. Glad you're enjoying the videos ☝🏾
Me too or after college I go to work 3 times a week and I watched all his video
I agree Heat only being available once per Match would really open up too more Tactical Fights, do you use it early in a Match too get the Upper hand or wait for the Last Round too Close out a Match, would be very interesting too see how people would use Heat, if it was once per Match.
I feel that way about rage arts too.
dear lord no.
heat is the only thing that gives you at least 1 second to breathe it’s the best panic button in the game and universal to everyone most of the cast doesn’t need heat for their hyper aggressive rush down anyway so at least everybody has access to a lets calm down button
honestly itd be nice if they decrease the range of the the heat burst. it hits from soo far away and its impossible to whiff punish, make it steppable OR SOMETHING. WHY DOES STEPPING SUCK SOO BAD? OMG THE TRACKING
Calm down ltg
I thought I was the only one. I'm not familiar playing Tekken 7 completive myself but sidestepping feels so much better than Tekken 8. Even tag tournament 1 has better side step than 8
@@monkeyandtangerines3621 😅okay, ill calm down
@@dances_with_incels the stepping is proly exactly the same but the hitboxes of attacks definitely have a wider range. moves that youd easily evade before practically require precognition to dodge now.
@@monkeyandtangerines3621syncophant
The candle that burns twice as bright, lasts only half as long.
Honestly, I think Heat would be bonkers if they kept everything the same EXCEPT only giving you access to it once in a whole set. I'm of the school of thought that Heat should be scary, it should be a serious threat. But like, what happens when you're riding the adrenaline rush of literally fighting for your life? It's fleeting, it's brief, and you're more spent than a burnt fuse when it goes away. Keep the robbery potential, but only give each player access to Heat for their choice of 1 round for the whole set.
Facts….thinking of it now…it’s already enough that certain characters can perform hits and regain Heat Meter. Some other characters can Heal off Heat.
On top of that, we have Rage Art(which should also be used Once a SET)💯. It’s already enough💯
Great idea
Completely agree with your takes Hollow.
- Armored Heat Engagers are just cancer and need to go. Nina, Azucena, Eddy, Shaheen, Victor. Every time I fight one of these characters I have to worry about them throwing an armored nuke to steal their turn or the player leans so heavily on the move its embarrassing, not for them, but for the designers of the game who thought it would be okay/fun to deal with.
- Heat Dashes should not be +17 on block when your back is to the wall. Anywhere on the screen if an opponent does a heat dash move on block they are only +5 which means you can step, but if you happen to be at the wall theyre suddenly +17 which means free 50/50 mixup, and they just did a chunk of chip. THIS SHIT NEEDS TO GO. Make Heat Dashes +4or5 EVERYWHERE.
- Heat Burst needs to no longer track or reach halfway across damn the screen. They also should not be plus on block or hit. Make them STRICTLY a combo extender or a defensive tool that RESETS to neutral. Right now they're used to steal turns and continue pressure as well. Completely overpowered button. Losing 25% of your Heat bar to activate isn't much of a penalty in a game where you can die in 2 touches. Also, controversial take; Heat Bursts shouldn't do real damage ONLY grey health. That way people cant use them as a safe armored way to close out rounds like they do now. Also for god sakes make them slower/actually lose to throws and lows like they're supposed to. Again, its a completely overpowered button.
- Heat Smashes need to be more linear, not continue on whiff so they're easier to punish when you step them and the ones that lead into a stance/mixup should be less plus on block.
- Heat should be available at Match start and then need to be gained back like meter. If they don't seriously nerf this mechanic then they NEED to make it to where it doesn't happen EVERY round of EVERY match. Like Hollow said, if they don't, the game is gonna have a VERY short lifespan. Especially competitively. This shit was fun for a month but its already boring and super one note. Robbery and Gambling is not a fun way to design a fighting game. No serious player will stick around for that crap and is one of the reasons no one takes MK seriously at a competitive level.
- Hot Take: During Heat you should lose access to Armor on Powercrush Moves, including Rage Arts. This would be a huge and worthy tradeoff for how powerful Heat is. You want to go on the offensive? Fine, but you lose access to your turn stealing abilities until heat is gone. This, coupled with heat actually depleting when you are being hit, would make people really think about when and how they activate and make it scarier even when they have activated.
- Lastly, Throws shouldn't track. Its stupid and doesn't make sense in Tekken and the reasons are obvious. This isn't Soul Calibur, Namco.
That May patch better be heading in the right direction, or A LOT of people are going to drop/lose faith in this game, me being one of them. Which sucks because I absolutely love Tekken. But Tekken 8, even past all the battlepass and MTX bs, is not Tekken because of the systems they've put into the game.
Hollow said it best; When both players are out of heat is when I find myself having the most fun with the game. To me that's a sign that they've made a big mistake with how heat is implemented.
it doesn’t make sense that your heat burns if your blocking but if you get hit and you’re in a combo it barely takes your heat away each hit. i think you should lose more heat if you’re getting hit/in a combo
Heat should continually drain unless you're doing a combo on someone.
@@rabbyd542 exactly
@@rabbyd542 exactly i don’t understand why i basically lose next to no heat when i get hit during a combo
you shouldn't be getting punished for blocking chip damage and losing heat on block can be way too much sometimes and it's probably making the playerbase mash more instead blocking
You "Pause" the wrong parts like when you say "Pop it raw" it didn't need a pause but @3:59 When you said "When your taking it" that needed a "Pause" 😂
Lmao my pause game was weak in this video 📸
The funniest thing to me is watching two players fight, one pops heat and the other does it immediately after like "Oh yeah, good idea."
I'm not a fan of the heat mechanic.
"Round 1".. heat, heat special, spam...
not a great experience.
System change ideas:
Remove power crush completely
Remove armored heat
engagers completely
During heat you take more damage but you move faster
İf you are in both heat and rage
Rage damage is removed
During heat sidestepping
And whiff punishing restores
Small amount of heat
(Insert your own system changes here)
getting into a rage state in T7 was already an opportunity to comeback as your damage increased, so the opponent had to finish you off fast to not let you get that chance. Heat & Rage is plain stupid, cause it’s already two comeback mechanics and if both players have those by the end of the round it drastically lowers the pace of the fight because both are just afraid to move so that aggression they keep talking about goes out of the window
Heat just negates neutral, it's a toxic mechanic and they failed T8 because of it. It needs an overhaul, all of them need to be step able, they need to make them all unsafe on block and the meter should be earned throughout the rounds because atm it's just every round plays the same you're playing with a loaded gun and can shoot it at any moment of the round and undo any mistakes and put your opponent in a dumb situation where they are forced to guess and your just robbing them the round.
IMO, heat isnt the problem. Its the fact every character except a very select few have TONS of safe or even PLUS panic buttons that remove their hitbox as a target. Jin's Dive Kick, Devil Jins flying, as well Azucena and Ling's entire movelist, all reward people for mindlessly headbutting their keyboard. Theres also less ways to punish people for mashing in your face, counterhits care now basically not a thing, a LOT of moves were made safer than they should be in Tekken 7, theres safe launchers, and I cant magic 4 people out of existence for being scrubby. Tekken NEEDS its counterhits back if its going to have heat, because as it stands, forced mixups make me stand still and block no matter what, and then heat PUNISHES me for doing so with chip damage.
For azucena try to learn they're lows and parry em, for Ling try not to get too close and don't use many highs, devil jin has almost no safe on block moves so just learn those few and you should be fine, and unless you wanna risk, any morning crow hit can be blocked since there's no low morning crow or even flying low hit, morning crow has a special heat smash during morning crow but it's rarely used and only good if it kills, and flying has only a grab that's mostly used in combos and laser, but just side step, jin's dive kick is kinda rare, easily sidesteppable, easy to block, it's plus on block has no really important follow up so don't worry much about em, azucena is kinda op needs to be nerfed, Ling is mostly annoying, but that's also because she's kinda rare, but she doesn't deal much damage, devil jin is not as op as it seems, he has close to no safe on block move, and his launchers are not that op so ye hits hard but mostly with normal moves, his combos tend to be quite short, so just learn how to counter the moves, and try not to get launched, and the latter is very easy to do, and jin is kinda decently balanced, he has some op stuff, but I'd say he's the most defaultish character of the game after paul so simply learn how to deal with him, most of the characters that you feel are op, are actually not that strong, some have some very op moves that will likely be nerfed soon, but most of the time they're not really that op, they just have like one or two very good moves, and you just gotta learn how to deal with em.
I play Kazuya. And I feel like his heat is actually what the devs should try to implement to the rest of the cast. His powered up devil moves use a lot heat. The powered up demon paw doesn’t take a lot of heat, but it’s not that powerful. And pretty much resets the neutral. His d/b1,2~heat dash is really strong. But it doesn’t give a full combo. His heat smash is a powered up hellsweep, but it’s not that strong. Idk I feel like his heat is a perfect balance. He’s definitely stronger, but not broken. And there’s a lot of counter play to his heat. They just need to use this route for the top tiers and the game will be ok.
The best way ive been able to put it. Tekken is a great game that is being smothered and ruined by bad mechanics. The balance will be adjusted, but all these mechanics are here to stay and seem to be more important than the core game. It feels like im playing the mechanics and not the game
I like the points you made Mike, especially about the Heat bar. I like the idea of it being divided into two...where the first half is your window to do maybe a couple moves in Heat, and follow it up with the heat special move. Or, if you really need the extra advanced moves in Heat, you can use them for the entire bar but after that half way point you loose access to that heavy hitting special.
Another thing you mentioned that I'd like to touch on is about the "This is Tekken" situation. I'd like to offer a different explanation that might be a little more in line with what you mentioned in previous videos, which is Heat, chip damage, all the aggressiveness that Tekken 8 is, IS Tekken 8, but it just needs to be adjusted. I think you've said it perfectly by giving the examples of previous Tekken games that they had their time in the arcades and all that time to balance and fine tune them before they released them on consoles, so it'll take some time to get everything right. So although I personally like the Heat system cause it adds something new and exciting to Tekken, I too would like to see some adjustments so that it stays in the game and doesn't seem so broken to fans of the series.
Heat should be once per game and you should have to build the meter with character specific moves. (Heat Moves)
As a SF player, I put about 150 hours into T8 and I had so much fun but the lack of consistent defensive options and emphasis on 50/50s made me sour on the overall enjoyment. I haven't played in a few weeks but I enjoy following the game.
Keep your foot on these devs neck Mike! 💪🏾
This video is the truth. I never liked the idea of Heat and Chip Damage being in Tekken. Tekken was fine the way it was as a tactical fighting game based in reality as closely as possible. I hate that this is the direction the devs have chosen to go with - The Esports Route. The casual fans doesn't like, nor understand the old way Tekken played out. To them it is just two players backdashing all day with little interaction between them. As a result the game seemed boring to them at the highest Esports level. To mend this, the devs have gone with this aggressive vision they have for Tekken 8. Heat, Chip Damage, lack of "infinite stages", as well as this new TWT rule that prevents you from picking a stage after you lose a match, these are all against the old way of playing Tekken.
The thing that these devs are trying to "mend" in an attempt to please a casual Esports audience is what made Tekken beautiful to watch at the highest level. Nothing better than watching a Tekken veteran limiting the offensive options of his opponent simply by using movement. I recently heard Speedkicks in Spag's Tekken Podcast HeatSpeak say that between brain dead defence and brain dead offense, he prefers brain dead offense. It may seem boring and brain dead what these players are doing at the highest level, but on the contrary it takes a high level of understanding and experience to play at that level and it was beautiful to watch. Watching those players play inspired many of us to improve our own game play, and maybe play like them one day. But with this new age Tekken, what will the new players be inspired to do? Mash more? Heat and Chip Damage can go, may this be the last Tekken to implement these 2D mechanics. Although I have a feeling they are here to stay and will be a staple for Tekken from here on out. So I am pleased to have witnessed real Tekken by watching those high level Tekken players, some of the best days of being a Tekken fan.
Tekken 7 was literally my first Tekken and second fighting game. I was able to play characters like Eliza, Julia, Mishima's by putting in the necessary time and effort and the things that were too execution heavy really weren't that many I could do most stuff after putting in the effort. Korean back dash is difficult but if I really focused even I could chain 2 or 3 backdashes. I was playing FPS games mainly, and mkx and sc6. So, I really don't understand the need to make the game simpler for new comers. In fact, it's disrespectful even to the newcomers in my opinion. Whether it's making offense easier and defence weaker or removing execution requirements it's disrespectful.
It pisses me of that u can be so braindead with it like heat burst is like +1 and heat smash is also + on Block that’s so weird when I block his special especially heat smash let me punish him or atleast let it be my turn
I have always said "Why am I FORCED into heat on certian moves? Why can I force the heat to not activate?" There are so many GOOD moves characters have that are tied to heat engagers (Kuma Back1 which is an unsafe power crush heat engager). It would stop a lot of aggression the game FORCES on top of giving players more agency over their heat.
Yes. This is the one suggestion I forgot and remembered as I uploaded. It was also one of my original gripes. Why force me? Maybe I don't wanna be spicy right now 😫 Harada wants us to be in rabid dog mode at all times but maybe I wanna pop God Mode later on.
In the current state Heat engagers are so strong that it's the best option to go into heat. It's much stronger than heat bash or no heat. If they nerf heat or make it only once per match it must be optional though.
there should be an input to stop heat engagers like holding back during the move like the opposite of the input for heat dash
That heat gauge reminds me of Bloody Roar: Primal Fury.
You obtain the bar by attacking and you can change when it's full. Then you'll lose it gradually or quickly if you get hit.
Damn I miss that game.
As a Ling main, the amount of damage her back stance heat smash gives is not okay. I have stolen so many games doing it into Hypnotist stance mix. It should do half the damage for the amount of reward I get off it. Or it should do reduced damage depending on the remaining gauge like you suggested.
Agreed that heat is frustrating, and when I'm playing against a practice dummy it's a lot more fun when it's deactivated for both characters.
But while there's a lot to hate about T8, there's a lot that I really enjoy. That they're trying to make the game more accessible is something I can get behind. The game looks beautiful. Ghost battles are awesome. Practice mode is better than ever, as are the replays. And this might seem like a small thing, but sidestepping feels SO MUCH BETTER, I feel like I get a reward for doing it well.
Time will tell if the game drops off, and it's good to make our opinions known, but like many have said, this is the equivalent of arcade release -- hopefully the game will get some patches and criticisms will be listened to.
I think its fine as a mechanic but it is a bit too strong and inconsistent with the heat smashes. Grabs need to not be homing, I personally think that is the most important system change. Heat smashes should just do less damage and be more punishable on block or whiff. i think the way you choose between heat burst as a get off me tool or heat engage to regain health is a cool mechanic and gives you one free get out of jail card a round. But all in all homing grabs gotta go!
Homing grabs are one thing, but the extended grab ranges by holding Foward on certain chars from Tekken 7 were worse IMHO. I still think it's in the game and whiff grabs sometimes. 😂
They should reduce how long heat lasts significantly and reduce the damage of heat smashes. Also make them stepable for counterplay because they just favor the attacker and that messes up game balance overall.
king presses one button in heat you lose almost half your health
"this is Tekken now" didn't float when 4 came out so 8 doesn't get a pass if it ain't right.
I can definitely see this game going the Tekken 4 route if they dont course correct on all this "aggression"
It's not about it floating, it's about it being the reality. This IS Tekken now, however, the point of this video is to point out it's issues, not deny it's existence.
In a comment I left in an upload of yours a few days ago I shared the idea of modularity of gameplay systems as a way to let the community curate the game they want to play. But until that happens we have fighting games adding various subsystems to experiment or bedazzle a new entry. It's kinda sorta the playerbase's fault.
I've seen lots of gamers, usually of the faux artisan types, who lament 'originality' in games. They claim every release should be wholly innovative to please their sensibilities (despite their library being full of sequels and remakes). There's an element of that in the FGC as well.
If Tekken 8 didn't have Rage or Heat I'd be 100% fine with it because I don't have a silly notion that franchises "need" to evolve. I don't care. I wanna play exactly the same game, forever, with generational bumps in fidelity and modern online systems with each iteration. The downfall of so many franchises was because certain fans and producers has a wacky unnecessary concept that "it needs to change". It doesn't. I literally wanna play Tekken 5 forever.
But here's the thing; if Tekken 8 didn't launch with Rage and Heat and cinematic finishers an annoyingly large part of the playerbase will think it's flawed. That goes past to the commercial viability point I made last time. This is inescapable.
We want to play chess with crazy martial artists, but most people want a power fantasy. A playable anime. At best we can call for balancing of these features but honestly a toggle would solve all of that.
I disagree and and agree. On one hand, games shouldn’t be forced to evolve. On another, if you stay the same, people are going to start viewing your games as being lazily made(as seen with COD). So I think change is for the betger
@@j.i.nthenobody54 I would say that a mere *perception* of a game being stale doesn't necessarily translate to a sales issue, while the last decade's attempts to evolve long going game series has more often hurt the franchise.
Now if the underlying gameplay of a franchise is stale and it was really the notoriety or cultural recognition that carried the series (MK, arguably Gears of War, other 'right time right place' franchises) then yes games will be exposed as stale and changes need to occur. But I'm talking situations where nothing was broken but they try to fix it. The number of series that came back to life by *returning* to its mechanical roots takes my argument from speculation to industry fact.
@@Kalyx while that statement about games being revived via sticking to their roots is true, eventually, you have to change. The same game gets boring after a while. You can’t just re-release a game every 10 years and expect people to be happy(Skyrim)
@@j.i.nthenobody54 Elder Scrolls, just being honest, was never a particularly good game. It's an example of my point that certain games coasted on some other element that had a half-life. In this case all I ever heard of Elder Scrolls was its then unprecedented freedom and scale ("Maps so big, and I can stock up on random goblets wow!") and the mods. That's it. Nothing about gameplay, which always looked ho-hum. All that happened was at some point gamers saw what I always saw.
But you also became an example of my main point: You say games need to evolve at some point, for more or less no reason. Just iterate for iteration's sake. Despite agreeing with my supporting arguments about how sales don't really correlate with this edict..
So you'll take a popular game series, change it after the initial trilogy of successful games (roughly a decade or so), *fail* for a few tries, and then after burning millions of dollars and possibly incurring layoffs - you say, "Oh with the next entry we've heard the fans, we're going back to the roots of _________," and we can't wait for you to come back," bla bla bla.
The difference is mechanical quality. Most Halo fans can play Halo 3 forever. Most Tekken fans can play Tekken 5 forever. Evidently most Madden fans could play Madden 15 until just last year.
All I'm saying is evolve *when you need to*, not because of an arbitrary need to change the formula. Ask SNK fans which one of them would play KoF12 forever. None.
There is so much heat and rage in this game it almost feels like a God Of War game. Just mash.
thats why there is heat and rage art… so you can’t just mash.
pls mash vs someone that has his rage art up.
mash vs someone that has his heat burst rdy.
i get why people are frustrated because they just mash into every rage heat etc there is and get frustrated because they got hit
yes it’s a problem that heat bursts are crazy on block i can see that as a problem but this can and will be all fixed imo
Lmao
You make a lot of great points. You even touched on my biggest gripe with Heat. It’s little to no counter play. You have to hold it. That’s contradictory to 3D fighters, which are known for always having options available.
If the aggressor is +17 after a Heat Dash, why does the defender only have the option of guessing? Not even a side step? Nothing? lol
Typing this in the work bathroom😂. As feng, his 3+4 shouldn't give a free stop when they lie on the ground for free damage, and I don't think it should be so plus that they can't step because the sweep is supposed to at least catch that. Universally, if the heat dash jails into a low, you should be able to hopkick or low parry, it makes the fact that you can't side step so bad. And I learned this recently. There's more but I don't have much time 😅
That heat mechanic have to go asap.
Agreed that some minor tweaks could make a positive difference. The risk reward in heat smash is kinda crazy. Good for making new players feel like they can do something powerful but definitely gets a bit tiresome. Think it would be a positive if heat smash was less safe than it is today
Regarding chip damage, I think they should take it out completely but leave recoverable health. Obviously, that means that only combos generate recoverable health. This way, you still reward aggressive play by you gaining your health back, but don't you don't get punished for being defensive, as not all people like/can play rushdown.
For armored high heat engagers, they should all be punishable, especially very fast ones like Victor's and Azucena's. Yes, they lose to ducking, which is historically why all high power crushes were safe, but when it also leads to forced 50/50s, they should also be a bit risky.
Heat should just linked to the entire set than just the round. And idk if it should still be completely full at the start but imo it heat should become something we build throuout the set. Tekken needs meter management to at add another level of skill and some match tension that might be even increases spectator enjoyment.
Heat should be a more risk based mechanic.
Have the burst and smashes be completely sidesteppable and have the smash be launch punishable on block. Heat engager moves that are also power crushes should not be a thing. Its fucking stupid. Either remove the engager or remove the power crush, you should not have both in one move.
Heat engager moves in general should be optional, have the player hold forward or something if they want to activate it. Adding to the risk factor, if the opponent blocks your heat engager your meter decreases by a set quarter which can make your heat mode much shorter as you activate it. Heat engager should give you the option to dash to your opponent or to stand your ground. The former costing an extra bit of heat.
Chip Damage on certain moves without heat should be minimal at best. Chip should be removed from While Running moves. Chip in heat should be nerfed a bit as well. The most amount of Chip you should do is less than of quarter.
I could literally go on. I gave heat a fair shot up to the release, but about 250 hours in, I honestly believe that Tekken 8 will not make it to Season 3 at the very least if Namco don't make a major overhaul to the game... its insane how they nerfed this mechanic so many times even before the betas and somehow now, it's still broken unga bunga garbage. This game in general besides visuals and music is an extreme disappointment in my eyes and makes me hate modern fighting games even more. And I already dont like T7.
Not gonna lie I’m surprised people don’t really talk about recoverable health too much. Having the opportunity to recover health while getting hit is a poor way to extend the round IMO, especially considering most heat engagers are power mids or long range pokes that are useful in neutral. There are many instances where an opponent is down to the magic pixel and have an opportunity to recover a quarter of their health back through a heat engager and it honestly just delegitimizes comebacks. Also Jun’s heat smash, do I even need to elaborate?
I'm afraid introducing damage scaling to Heat would make it so that people will only use it in certain situations, reducing variety in matches. Especially if this applied to Heat Smashes!
But personally, I wouldn't mind Heat Dash being removed from the game. We don't need more combo extensions...
There are so many things that needs to be addressed for Tekken 8 and it seems really hard to figure out where to start, apart from the pluggers and cheaters.
If I were Bamco, I would start by removing the autonomous heat activation and experiment with only allowing heat activation from certain moves, thus only enabling heat from a combo, bait or setup, not just arbitrarily activating it and using armor to eat a hit.
The second thing would be to either remove heat smashes or strongly nerf them, the smashes are too oppresive, too rewarding for the risk involved and they are certainly not equal across the cast. Also if you hit a heat smash, make it so you don't get to mixup the person that got hit, they should be able to get up freely.
Work out the further balance from that onwards. And for f***'s sake, nerf the overtuned stuff and stop buffing everything. The game shouldn't be Button Mashers 2024.
Tracking on heat smash and heat burst too plus
And some characters have 2 heats smashes which is think is bs. Jun and Shaheen have a low heat smash from their stances. Those are the only two that I’m aware of, but it’s bs man.
Biggest change I would do with the heat system would be to reduce its damage; and also, while juggling an opponent, if a bound/tornado was already executed, then the heat engager wouldn't bound the opponent, and vice-versa.
As for the chip damage, again, reducing its damage, but also make it as characters won't take any chip damage once they reached the rage mark.
Outplaying someone then losing to rage arts is annoying enough. Heat plus frames make it to where you have few options
I recall arslan ash saying this earlier about heat. The matches eventually get repetitive if their are so many heat attacks that just put you in so many 50/50 checkmate situations. And when u play a character like lee with a heat that gives u attacks u can already do perfectly fine that are all highs, it makes it feel characters weren’t made equally.
Meters do not belong in Tekken.
They put meters in Soul Calibur and effectively killed the franchise. They put meter in Tekken 7 for 2D characters and everybody disliked that.
I mean Tekken 8 is a decent fighting game but not a good Tekken game. As a Tekken player since Tekken 2, I agree with Knee and Arslan. This ain't good Tekken.
Hope it gets better 🤞
My biggest problem with this game is garunteed moves. Like kings untechable throws in heat. There so many other examples but moves with no counter play should never be a thing
I feel like heat should be an option either you do your rage art or the heat system to extend said combo kinda like either going into do say hit a button or be more skillfully so more damage for a reason with heat. but if you use heat would early bar will increase the timer of it for people who use rage can either press button while the skillful player can use it and make mroe useful damage for them.
I feel like I'm in a time loop, you say the exact thing about the T8 mechanics in every video about the game.
You're not stuck in a time loop, Magna. You're here because you want to be ☝🏾
The algorithm put your newest upload at the top of my feed, maybe it's fate! @@RealMikeHollow
I can’t wait to see Mike counter hit throw people into a 160 damage combo. And abuse unbreakable tackles in heat when Marduk drops
MY DAY IS COMING 😏☝🏾
Yeah I wish there was no heat and ragearts. So many matches start out great but then one player starts using ragearts and all the following rounds devolve into finding the best moment to use them. And then some people basically open with the heat smash and don't even do anything else with their heat. It can be a fun mechanic when you don't do that.
My hot take is tekken should have become a two round game with timer increased and damage globally nerfed by about half. I don't specifically have a problem with the heat system but I do have a problem with homing throws and everytning becoming a 50/50 guess. If I had it my way, they would have removed rage arts and kept drives instead and all heat smashes launch punishable and no homing. Id even go so far to say heat maybe should be once per match
I have watched new players try this game out and absolutely love it compared to Tekken 7. Which is great but over time it's not going to keep the players, even pros are quitting. I don't like how heat is activated turning you into a boss character. I feel having it similar to a traditional meter would be better. 3 bars for heat smash, 1 to do a heat burst or 2 for a heat dash? After writing this I'm starting to read this and think it's a dumb idea 😂
They should remove heat and rage arts completely for a full year and remove throw tracking.
After that year no one would want any of those back.
Honestly heat should be in social play and removed from ranked and competitive play, or just have it below orange ranks to help out newbies.
Bamco should let Tekken be Tekken.
true that, you make a great point. why cant they make new player friendly modes rather than ruin the entire game?!
@@buckbreaker5185 Exactly! Best of both
I think its a really bad idea to give beginners heat and then remove it once you go upper ranks, it builds bad habits
The thing is Tekken 7 is more defensive game. Yet I see a lot of people playing aggressively and doing well. Seeing Tekken 8 go all out on that idea with weak defensive play is a bad idea.
As a Jun main, her heat smash being fast is fine considering it takes it ALL away the moment you do it, however the fact I can regain ALOT of health on block is stupid. Nobody is going to risk sidewalking it so it's just a "free" way to get health back when it should ONLY be on hit.
Rage arts need to be only once per match, if my opponent only has a pixel and I rush in to be aggressive and finish the job, they just rage art and get damn near 50%. It just takes away all the work and effort I did before that and just rewards the player doing the rageart, the risk and reward is so skewed.
Heat burst when blocked should leave you minus, why am I, the blocking player getting punished for doing the right thing and guessing right in blocking?
I got off after 6 ,always been a casual ,hated tag 2, did not like 7 and this is just not for me but playing 6 recently is great fun especially in couch a good laugh.
I dont wanna sound like I'm bragging because I really wish I was wrong, but I was calling heat and aggressive gameplay being bad choices since the moment I heard it. I am kinda hopeful though because lately I've seen many others call it out as well
the fact that some characters have power crush heat engagers is baffling
I hated it then and I hate it now it’s too much. You have rage art, rage damage, armored attacks that all can make and break a game at times. To me that was enough to help less skilled players and I was all for it in T7. Was it annoying to have someone against the ropes you’re about to kill them and they armor or rage art and kill me? Yea but they had real easy counters especially for how easy they were to use. If you used a rage art and it didn’t land you were in trouble. Heat is obnoxious and just unnecessary. You can literally turn the tide of a fight just by using it while literally getting outplayed the entire round. With a game where there is so many options to attack from adding heat is just over kill and allows less skilled players beat more skilled players off of a system that literally turns the game into 2d and making already op characters to god like. I honestly only use heat when someone activates theirs just to keep them at bay. Before someone’s says why would they make it just like T7 adding heat isn’t the only thing that makes T8 different from T7 and that’s a cop out to a real argument. Small details add up to make a game different. I love a lot about T8 but heat will kill this game the same way the absurd damage killed Tag2
Hope life is treating you well ps glad I found your chenal it really helped me learn a lot about the game
Thank you, sir ☝🏾 hope life is being good to you too.
There’s too many plus frames on moves. You can’t even play
Heat should just be a normal super meter, since that’s clearly what inspired it. Instead of having chip damage for every move during heat, just have chip damage for the heat moves. Instead of heat being full at the start of the match, earn it over time by attacking your opponent. If you get hit during heat, you should have the ability to use some of your heat in exchange for less damage done to you.
i think it’s funny that people cry all day about the game mechanics. i don’t care that game mechanics are broken as long as both players have access to it. rage art is fine heat is fine power crush is fine whats not ok is that some characters are just so much better in heat than others. tbh heat should have been just for combo extension as a panic button and as a finisher but not give some characters totally new mechanics entirely
i mean why can law FULL LAUNCH from a 111 jab string? why can he launch with a safe mid that tracks to both sides and is 95% of the time 100% safe with 1+2? while other characters gain literally no new stuff in heat at all that’s the only crazy part about heat but i highly believe everything will be fixed at some point
Thats the one thing about T8 that kinda disappointed me for the most part. They went a little too heavy on the flashy spectacle stuff, rather than fine tuning the core mechanics like Tekken 7 did. Half the time it feels like an anime fighter like Naruto Ninja Storm rather than standard Tekken imo.
Its like they tried merging Soul Calibur 6's comeback system and ducktaped it into Tekken, without any consideration for how much can be exploited.
I just wish there was a happy medium for a modern fighting games not becoming too braindead, as every game nowadays feels obligated to dumbing everything down, just to appease newcomers who were already gonna get wrecked with or without those changes. Just seems pretty shortsighted on the devs part.
I can kinda see why some consider Tekken 8 as a spin off title, from that perspective.
I've been playing Tekken since 3 and enjoyed everything until Tekken 7. After watching some of your videos and reading other people's perspectives on the latest changes, I think I'm... Slightly less stubborn to the changes? But man, there's just been SO MANY. I didn't mind the combo system getting adjusted for a new twist, but the armored attacks, rage drives, and rage arts were such an annoying stack to deal with all at once.
I get it, I guess. New players need comback mechanics and more options. It's just super weird, because some characters blatantly had better armor atracks than others. I'm willing tolerate Rage Drives and allow it to have armor and accept the combo method being changed, but I wish everything else was taken away.
Now Tekken 8? Haven't played it yet and don't know if I ever will. The heat system is just so absurd. And having the pace of the match interrupted with cutscenes is nerve racking... It's bad enough to be forced to rage art cutscenes that lasts 10 seconds. It just seem rage inducing. Too many new tools. Tekken is becoming a 3D Street Fighter. Just HOW much help does a new player need to get into the game, honestly?
I’m watching the video now but 11k ! Congrats bro
Thank you, brother ☝🏾
@@RealMikeHollow You’re welcome bro
As a new player and pretty casual a highly agree. I found myself not using heat really at all as I was learning the game to honestly be easier. Later on after I knew some punishments and combos I started to implement heat strategies. But I think a lot of other players can get caught up in spamming heat/heat smash moves and just abusing it. I kinda wish there was a mode with no heat or rage art just hands and feet...
I want heat to remain a relevant mechanic, I see some people saying it should be used once per match but I disagree, I like having it every round. I like heat it makes the game more fun to watch and play but it does need to be toned down a bit. The chip is w/e to me, I feel like you recover so much life that it doesn''t matter too much. I like that tekken 8 plays and feels different. I don't want it to be like like T5 and up, I have been there done that.
My personal issues with heat is the fact of heat burst being a "steal your turn" button in the way it literally freezes your opponent long enough for you to now be at +1. The tracking on heat burst is also ridiculous; I can see characters realigning during the little heat burst cutscene while you might be waking damn near behind them.
It's no coincidence that this Tekken game has the most higher ranking players that have no defense. The game only promotes proper defense at a very high level, and its insulting at times to destroy a Raijin or Kishin Azucena/Dragunov/Jun/King becuse you can see their "knowledge" is nothing more than 50/50 you after frame advantage and then mash heat burst or powercrush while under the slightest bit of pressure.
And we can't even blame players for how they are playing, because this is what the game is so blatantly encouraging as meta - literal mash FTW.
I think either: leave heat in its current form, and have it once per MATCH, or heavily, heavily nerf heat, and keep it at once per ROUND. atm, heat makes the game insufferable.
i've had enough of it tbh i am going back to mk
After MainMan released his T8 tier list video, I actually stopped playing Victor and started playing Steve. I quickly got to Bushin rank with Victor and it's clear why. But since switching to Steve my victories definitely feel more satisfying in comparison. Because he is not a easy character to learn.
Tbh I think all heat smashes should be minus on block not not free plus frames or 40 percent damage bruh heat burst shouldn't have a freeze frame at all should just come out and be stepable the damage should get taken down across the board on them as well also
How about a 1 round use of heat. If it's finished it's finished. Teach you how to value resources
I wish movement was super buffed I miss being able to dance with my opponent.
After 150+hours I still don't like it and I don't enjoy winning with it. Feels super cheap when I use heat. Idk why it's plus, you should be punished for using such a great tool IMO. When everyone uses their heat and are almost at full HP then it becomes fun and then I feel like I play tekken (asides from the horrid balancing issues). I really wanted to refund this game but couldn't due to playtime and get it much cheaper later on when it's actually fun to play (for me) but as of right now I'm only in practice mode, got to fricking raijin easily in about 2 weeks and I don't feel like I deserved it.
I 100% agree with ur take the game really does feel fun again when People DONT HAVE HEAT great video honestly spot on!
10:00 well to be fair towards Jun there have been moments where yea she got her health back but she also has moves where she loes Health when you doge so it kinda balances it out
I feel like they should add an extra tutorial about low parries(maybe it's already there but it didn't have a story chapter so doubt anyone saw it if it's there) I heard it was already in t7(idk I never saw it there) but in t8 is much better since it can parry any type of low and not only low kicks except a few exceptions like low heat smashes, and it's probably the best defense option in the game, and I rarely see it, aside from me low parrying all the time, I never saw anyone else using em except like once every 10 matches or so, it kinda also makes matches less aggressive after many parries, and the low parry makes stupidly op characters like azucena and feng, or very oppressive characters like hwoarang and dragunov much less annoying and in a way, almost feel mid tier, and low parry is actually even easier than it seems, even I at first thought it was hard but the timing is quite forgiving, and most lows animations are actually slower than they seem, like azucena's low kick looks fast but you can see it decently well after a while, and the really really fast lows(like I think jin's 1, 3, 4), after a while get quite predictable after even just 1 round or just fighting the same character in different rounds, and even if low parry doesn't low for big follow ups, when you manage to use it, it really works, I was stuck on a rank from basically the release up until last 2 weeks, and when I learned how to low parry consistently 2 weeks ago I already managed to get promoted twice, and I didn't even change my playstyle much aside one new morning crow combo and ofcs the low parry.
I think it can help both the veterans and especially who's new, and often tends to try to play defensive, and it's much easier to learn than sidesteps or kbd.
Heat should not be given for free at start of every round. It should work like a meter in every other fighting game. It has to be built up and managed for the entire match
If Tekken 5 would come out today, people will hate it
I would make heat dashes zero on block with a lot of push back
For me I wouldn’t really mind heat too much if it wasn’t for the fact that Rage Arts also exist.
This game gives you too many resources for nothing. If possible they should implement a system where before you queue, you choose heat or rage art, which ever you choose the other can’t be used.
If not this at the very least make it so heat smash on block is not so plus
I don't agree with making heat once per match. I enjoy the heat system a lot but I do believe they can tone it down in other ways.
Games already dead to me.
Heat is brainless, its a tank move cutscene (1 cutscene a round) Its a heat cutscene attack (2 cutscenes a round) and weve got rage arts (3 cutscenes a round)
Chip damage in this game is a complete joke, I defend everything right? Im still at 30%, I just have some dumbass membrane I can regain by using my cutscenes
Sidestepping feels worthless, backdashing feels worthless.
Throws track sidesteps. Many moves are homing without being homing.
Moves have little counterplay or extremely difficult counterplay, Then they proceed to remove counterplay, i.e lars silent entry being countered by rage art now has been changed so you have no options for the 50/50, you just have to take the 50/50
Every character that i came to massively respect at high ranks has been demoralized beaten down and broken, being a high level Jin means nothing anymore. Being a high level devil jin means nothing. Being a high level King means nothing. Hell, I picked up Yoshimitsu for the first time, I havent TOUCHED practice mode, I got to Kishin, this should not be possible. Why? because like every other character, heat is ultra cheap and they gave him hyper abusable strings.
I quit weeks ago because everytime I played i genuinely hated it, its 1 match versus an impressive person and 100 matches where it feels like im wasting my time on beta testing poor balance.
I honestly hate it, say what you will, but I'll keep watching things to see if we see massive changes, and if we do, Ill come back, but realistically? I wont be coming back, every change they make is in the wrong direction so far, they'd have to utterly redesign most of the systems, theyre not going to do that. Its just not my tekken, too bad, not my problem either, I got my moneys worth, even though 70 is steep for only 100 hours. theyre not getting a dime more from me, nor on the launch of 9, Ill wait a year and see if that ones a shitshow unilaterally, or if its any good.
problem with heat and rage is that tekken has rules but with heat/rage its like this beats all these options except heat/rage so it just makes the rules inconsistent and annoying once you actually understand the rules and makes those mechanics feel even cheaper like why can rage just tank a grab on startup when it beats heat and power crush and heat with alot of characters you just have to sit there and eat blockstrings and uninterruptable 50 50s cause it gives them so much block stun in heat and heat smash
How you feel about the heat mechanic when it was first demoed, is exactly how I felt about RageArts and Rage Drives in T7
I don't blame ya. If it it was up to me, super moves would not be in Tekken.
@@RealMikeHollow Here's one simple fix give us the option to choose Classic or Heat mode.