The Do's And Don'ts of Spotify Curated Playlists: DON'T GET CAUGHT OUT
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- Опубліковано 7 сер 2024
- This is a topic that comes up frequently both in DKMBA and in my ads feed! Everyone is trying to offer you thousands of streams in exchange for money... But how does this work, and will it affect your Spotify positively or negatively?
Have you paid directly to be in a Spotify playlist before? Let me know your thoughts below!
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Hey! I'm Damian Keyes and I've worked with musicians every day of my life for the past 20 years. The internet is deeply untrusting understandably and here is my background so you can have the full picture.
When I was 18, I was signed to a major label (dropped 6 months later) and at 23 I co-founded a Music University in Europe called BIMM (valued at $300M). I’m also a bass player, I’ve played for a number of artists including Eric Clapton, Alanis Morrisette and Billy Cobham. I initially retired at 30, but realised that life gets boring if you’re not building!
I have always been in-between the music industry and education which is how I ended up building my UA-cam channel - I’ve been teaching artists how to release music long before it was a ‘niche’! I now educate artists around the world with my Academy, UA-cam channel and I work directly with labels internationally alongside owning a live agency and management company.
It’s great to meet you and looking forward to working together on your music!
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Have you paid to be on Spotify playlists before? What were your experiences?
Also... As always... You know you want to scroll back up and smash that little like button blue!
Damian Keyes I have. 65k listeners on the playlist was appealing. Fans, plays and monthly listeners increased a bit, but not too much for $200 per song for 6 months on the playlist. Had a hard time telling if they were “real” listeners. Not doing that again. Thanks for the video. Subscribed
Thanks Damian, great video 👍 . I’ve been tempted to use submit hub. But didn’t in the end. There are some good free ones out there you can submit your songs to which are obviously legitimate because.....well because they are free! Good call about building your fan base. It’s a slow process but at least you know that they will actually like your music. Artists should Leave the ego to just being able to walk onstage and go with the music every time 😎✌️
Biggest regret, but I've learned from it. Been working hard on just gaining genuine Spotify followers and producing engaging content for IG.
@katharinaboger
Some playlists have been very effective, some have been straight up scams. I think I’ll keep experimenting.
"If you build the fanbase, you will get into playlists, focus on the 1 to 1" GEMS, thanks Damian!!
I think refusing to pay to get played is good practice and good policy.
These 'pay to play' business models are based on targeting that desperation of independent artists to get their numbers up. Invest time and money into a solid product and consistent release plan and trust me those numbers will fly ❤️Currently at 1.5 million total, big shoutout to Damo for all the help in making that happen
It never occurred to me until this video that you never do paid promotions in your videos and I think that's something that makes them so good/easy to watch, I never have to skip a minute because you're trying to peddle some shit I don't care about at me. Thanks for doing that!
I personally think there's a huge case for paid playlist promotion and I've first hand seen labels use it to boost their artists streams in the first weeks to make them look more impressive, especially when a release has 'flopped'.
People don't look at where the streams are coming from, they don't care, they just see a big number and associate quality, and it quickly becomes mob mentality. If you pay £20 for 10,000 streams in the first week of a release, it doesn't matter if they're real people or not - real people will take notice because they see a big number.
Also not so smart promoters, booking agents, etc. even Radio DJs who don't have time to look through where your streams have come from can get easily duped into believing that you are more popular than you truly are, and I've also first hand seen this happen as I have friends who've done this and secured large festival slots, support tours and national radio play by simply faking it until they make it.
I know this backdoor technique doesn't sit well with creators like yourself because it absolutely discredits everything you tell your audience to do to build up a fanbase, but it won't ever stop especially when labels and bigger artists are doing it to actively stay bigger than people who don't do it or don't know that they can do it. Spotify won't put a stop to it as they're so in bed with the labels that it's basically history repeating itself with payola.
I've been listening to you for a while now. This is some very good advice. Thanks Damian!
loving the lesson #TeamDAMO
soooooooo on pointe but excited to learn the insights. Your historical context always kills. Thank you!
Your wardrobe game is getting stronger.
Haha that’s my wife to thank!
Just eating lunch and watching some UA-cam and look who shows up! Hope you are doing well man!
I can quite safely and proudly say I’ve never paid for a playlist and never will. If my music gets rejected by a playlist I move onto the next one.
I'm clueless right now, lol out of all the things you you pick his wardrobe..... Dude the content is phenomenal that's was a good laugh 😂
Can’t even see his wardrobe in this shot. What am I missing??
Great vid. Hope you are feeling better!
Just time to give another simple "thank you" here. Keep it up and sending some energy your way. Got a lot of inspiration from your channel and book. As a band making music in Swiss German (crypto) language (nearly nobody understands that, maybe 4 million people in total) we struggle with some of the details (for instance audience targeting with Facebook ads - since the other Swiss audiences are too small to use in Facebook ad targeting. We can't target fans of any other "big" Swiss German artist because they don't exist).
I saw a comment on this video 2 month ago recommending me to submit my music to Xposic Spotify Promotion for consideration on their Spotify playlists. I said that I would come back to reveal my findings on this but can't see my comment anymore, so leaving it as a new comment. I went with a $65 package which got me 27500 streams for my single.
dope video I watched the whole thing! Thanks
Damian Keyes is a person
That I am!
Great video and message!
The hardest part is just figuring out who is legit and who isn't. Some people make me feel safe with their ads but I always have to second guess because I don't want to be ripped off.
It’s not easy, and that’s why it’s so easy to fall for some of these things sometimes... they’re not stupid, and they know what to say to get you to trust them!
Thanks for always laying it down straight up but in the most caring and positive way !
You are inspiring !
Yooooo
Thank you Damian for the constant clarity! Working hard to reach 100 subscribers lol you give me a lot of motivation to do better and push myself. My dream is to provide for my family with my music, if I ever accomplish that goal you'll be the first person I thank.
Your presentation of this content is absolutely amazing and easy to understand. Thanks !
Been waiting for this video!!!! 😇😇
It’s here!
Great! Loving it- no shortcuts!! So it was worth the journey. 😅 💖
Your advice is really great value!!!👏👏👏👏👏 Always!👌
We’ve used a plugger for our release of “somebody to love” long story short: we thought we had the release rights to it, turned out we didn’t and it was already uploaded to be released, so we hid the track for almost a year until we got the publishing rights from universal. It helped to cheat the algorithms a bit cause nobody would’ve found the song cause it’s looks like it’s been released in 2019.
Also then again you’re investing in yourself, cause if you’re gonna get a gig in these times (we’ll not NOW NOW lol) venues look at how much streams you’ve got? How many likes on Facebook you’ve got? Etc etc. killer content again as always! ☮️
This is going to be a great help, I've just released my first single & I'm looking to get it out there on Spotify playlists!
Great information, thanks Damian!
Great advice thank you !!😉
Amazing, thanks!
Great video, thank you!
Great video! Really puts everything into perspective; both the short term and long term effects of the main variants of this strategy and how to do it right. Thanks Damo!
Glad to help!
Very informative. I finally made an Instagram account the other week and it didn't take long for these offers to show up. I always knew something about this felt a bit...off. Glad to know my instinct wasn't wrong.
Cheers, and hope you're feeling better :).
Your gut instinct is never normally wrong 😊😊
Excellent video thank you 😎👍
Wise words! (As usual!)
Great message.
thanks, Damian!
Thank you sensei!
I paid for a playlist and I got over 6000 streams but once they took me off the playlists my monthly listeners dropped drastically
Yep it would have done! Most of the time the new streams won’t convert to fans when it’s done this way
I cracked up at the iranien wave music line 😂😂😂. You’re awesome Damian, you’ve taught me so much! Thank you
Footage looks stellar in this one Damo!
Ahh thanks - it’s my living room as I’m quarantined! Can’t take the credit tho, all Ella 😊
Hope you are well after your infection. Wish you the best!
Same as always Great advices
Your work is ever good my friend, thank you for sharing your experience, very kind, .m
I’ve never tried it before but this is really interesting!!
To be fair, this video was quite helpful to up & coming producers. Thank you
Maybe you should have people add to a list of playlist curators that have ended up negatively affecting their project... it might serve as a useful checklist for people.
I’ve spent a good amount of money with Submit Hub from 2015-2018. I found that majority of the bloggers/playlist were in it for the money. This came to my attention when the feedback being given was becoming generic and/or the same for several songs submitted to the same option. I did have some success with it, but not much, and wouldn’t say it was worth my investment.
I’ve had a better return on running FB/IG ads from 2017 and on. There’s no easy way to earning a fan and retention is the hardest part of keeping that fan.
Completely agreed. I don’t get on playlists, I tend to get shout outs with Submit hub. I’ve paid a good deal for a couple streams.
Very insightful Damo, them playlist Insta ads are rough 😑
History repeats...
Thanks for pointing out the old pitfalls coming our way!
Iranian music with a boyband sound sounds quite promising! 😆 Also, can I say how lucky your editor is? There are barely any cuts here! Ugh Damo, you’re such a natural.
Dude has the coolest lamps 😍
I learnt this lesson the hard way. Ended up with no fans also like at all! That's a key sign for any artist who has gone this route... or has less than 20 artists in their FAL.
The key is to build the fan base as a priority and then supplement that with approaching curators who won't charge, or submit hub. Even Playlist push has some dodgy playlists.
They say the easiest way to make money in the music industry is to sell things to musicians. This is the new way of offering false hope to artists needing to see their numbers fly.
I hope artists will take Damian's advice to heart!
I just paid someone on Fiverr. Now after watching this video I hope it's not too late.
How you feeling Damo?
ALSO what mic are you using? Sounds BRILLIANT.
It happened to me twice to put a song on a paying playlist.. but I immediately noticed all the pieces of the puzzle that didn’t add together, Damian, do you think I risked being shadow banned , and in the worst case, which is, if I was shadow banned, how much time do you think it will take me to be white listed again? (I’m not sure I was banned, I just might have been for a few weeks, during the period when I was in those stupid playlists, but still curious)
Thank You So Much for opening our eyes! we were going wrong way but stoppped! So Gratefull after watching your Video : ) and yeah please tell some legal playlists Also bcz some of them are illegal fake streams thanks : )
i jus had someone message me three days ago about getting "real followers" and "real plays". this video is perfect timing!!
I think the main problem is most artists are looking for that viral effect that's why they fall for these paid traps. The temptation to accelerate success is always there. Nowadays, I believe it has become much easier to make and publish music. Marketing and getting it out in front of people is still a task, but it is doable and you just need to know some technicalities, have a little strategy, and get a bit more creative with it. And you can do all of these mostly free. My work so far has given me some small gains, and I am thankful for the little progress and success I have made.
Damian have you looked at dailyplaylist? They have a feature where if you own a playlist artists can submit music to your playlist, but when they do it automatically follows 2 people of the playlist owners choice, saves a song to your library, and follows up to three of the curators playlists. It seems really good for curators and not great for artists. As an artist and new playlist curator it’s helped the Growth of my playlists a lot
Although the numbers go up, nobody ends up actually listening to the playlist. It's kind of a "fake win" in my books.
Owen Ferguson yeah I’ve kinda been thinking that, they do have a great contest feature where an artist can create a contest and it has the same functionality as if someone suits to your playlist.
I think you give really great advice. I'm just starting out in my music career. How far along do you think a musician should to take full advantage of your Academy or other services? I'm still in the phase of getting everything in order that I've learned for free.
Honestly, the academy is priced at $19.99 a month so the most number of musicians can take advantage of it. It’s not about free/not free but more the Mentorship, support system, accountability and step by step courses in building the blocks for your career. When people want to join is different for each person, but I’d always recommend getting started sooner rather than later as you’ll be able to make less mistakes going forward as you start out 😊😊
Thanks for the reply. You have me 80% of the way there. I'm betting I'll be ready soon 🍻
Looking forward to smashing it with you when you’re ready! 😊😊
Love the historical take. Payola bad.
I believe
I never paid to be published. For a year I release 1 EP a month, and I do what I can to find listeners, every month, and yes, I see a slow but proportional growth and development (radio station took my music and a European music blog named my EPs in their 2022 Top 30 - without paying anybody). - I just keep going.
To reference Kurt Cobain, 'Stay Away' used to be called 'Pay to Play'. Granted he was talking about gigs but hey the message still applies as it actually does to paying to play a gig.
Damn thanks for sharing that! Pink Floyd were speaking these same messages in a subtle way, especially welcome to the machine ;)
been wanting this video so bad, I just really don't know ho two advertise my music, marketing is like a whole another profession
Also what's your thoughts on paid radio promotion?
Sorry to change the subject but I hope you're going to talk us through Kayne's contracts, which he is current dumping on Twitter - and comment on whether this is behaviour young artists should be emulating!
Does this Spotify payola scam make me look fat?? Haha!! Excellent clip as usual. Go Damian Go!!
Haha!! Thank you!
Correct, people who consume music on spotify playlist only rarely click on the artists profile of the song they are listening to at the moment. Maybe they will look up the best song on the playlist.
Everyone, hit the like button before watching, it's a good video ;)
Damian was a dj. was it called Damian djs?
i am were ur talking about , ive never payed to get on paylists ,i do it amitt it takes time and patience ,i had to start from scratch just recently after i decided to take spotify seriously ,instead just up loading a track n hopin for teh best lol ,what we did was we did no pr on the single we used the money to push the socials to push it over to spotify ,same as utube , it made a masive dffierence ,got alot presaves ,then started out on creators ,it was slow ,it was painful ,then the results started coming in ,u just gott a percavere,we just set a target of 10k atime , we achived that ,then pushed for another 10k we then achived that ,and so on ,also we asked each creator wot we good do for them ,inreturn ,an old tip picked of u lol ,they all said ,just keep sending us your material inn we realy like your music ,we offered to put there name on on my website were we have partners ,most said u can if u want ,but just keep sendin in your music,its like you say it just down to building relationships ,doing things and say things people wont forget ,to be remembered is key ,i think were on about fifteen playlists ,as it stands ,and going strong ,it cool for astart in two months ,we got on one ,it done 4k in one night ,thanks your tips on the bio as well ,thank you man ,we got our first five hundred followers the other day ,all teh soppy writen stuff in my bio didnt do much lol it failed uterly , but when we start being blaten n harsh and use calls to action ,ii found it realy helps ,the play lists have helped with the following too ,keep them videos coming ,u help masivly ,im defo a damo fan ,even my muisc parter gettin to yah shows big love ur a star ,x
Hey, did you just change the title?
Hey man... you know why your channel is so popular? I know you're a business man and trying to make money, and there's by no means anything wrong with that. We're all trying to make a living and be successful. I feel like your videos do so well though, because you come across like you really want to help people and legitimately care about your audience.
Ahh thank you - I do genuinely care and want to help so I’m glad that comes across 😊😊
Can we address the problem that is Spotify bots? People keep taking advantage of musicians (who already are on a budget) in order to add songs into fake playlists that actually deliver thousands of streams. Having been in this situation myself, I don't get how I can tell when a playlist is fake jyst by looking at the stats but Spotify can't. They should really fix their bot detection algorithm. I just hope that when they do, they will not punish the artists for it
I've never heard the word "fifty" so many times.
How to have a officail store ?? For selling music
Bandcamp
LoL, and there's an ad for "Spotiflex" on this video. 😉
You said that if you build a fanbase you will get on a playlist. Not true, I know a whole bunch of piano players with hardly any fanbase but concentrating on playlists they are huge and on lots of them. I would rather have the fans (which I have) because it means longevity and legacy, but jeez it would be nice to make the money they are getting!
I was litterally that musician saying i need gigs for money for a car! i must have been one of many haha
well then... how do I build a fanbase without playlists....?
Proud to be underground and never on spottycrime
I'll be honest, I fell for one. I paid £5 expecting some marketing help, I got 3000 fake streams that f**ked up my numbers..
Yep it never works out long term, it will always mess with your account and that’s not worth risking for some streams!
99% of the playlists are bots watched a playlist go from 8k followers to 12.5k followers in 4 days
I kept and eye on one artist at 20k monthly listeners
Playlist rapidly started losing followers within a week sitting at 2.5k likes and that artist is at 3k monthly listeners
Moral of the story the guy tried to charge me 20usd per week for placement on a botted playlist
Don't pay for placement if the answer to making it in the music world costs you 20 it's fake🤦♂️😂
Comes back to, if it’s too good to be true, it usually is!
@@DamianKeyes update he is at under 1k monthly listeners
All his listeners were bots🤦♂️
8:01 "Eye-ranian" really Damian??
so for 5/6 years I didn't pay Spotify any attention. My Maximum song stream was 200. I had 25 followers. Total of 2K all time streams. In March 2020 I started to look at the online world more 'seriously'. I tried SubmitHub. £30 later all rejections. My feeling is that Submithub is NOT about relationship building, it's NOT about music either. It's all about money and numbers. Oh and incase you think my music is crap. Well could be. But the songs have been on national radio, and there are quality musicians involved. So then I paid for a Spotify Campaign. So I didn't pay the curator directly. I was on 8 playlists for 2 weeks and got 44K streams and 8K saves. But NO new followers. well maybe 1. Also when I dropped off the playlist none of the 'saves' turned into plays. However here's the thing. How many people look at a spotify profile and look at the numbers first. Like with you and your channel. Or someone on instagram or twitter and their followers. It's all so shallow. I guess my question back is. Are those streams Fake? How can I tell? And will Spotify pay for those streams ?
If one pays to get on a real playlist, gets 10,000 streams and 2,000 saves - doesn't that mean that 2,000 people listened to the song and liked it enough to save it?
My experience with submithub is , the more money you put in it then you have a better chance of getting people to listen who have bigger numbers and well as other perks they offer if it gets accepted your good to go ,if not then you lose your money, playlist push is the same thing and so on.....Spotify is full of it ,cuz with most of these sites and curators that do charge money to get on the playlist is against the terms and conditions but Spotify does'nt care cuz for them the more people that are using the site ,its a win for the companies value to go up , why do you think that Daniel EK wants singers and musicians to upload more and yet offers no benefits to the artist , its to raise the company value....So really , this is about making money than it is about its building fans and everyone right now whats to eat food.
I have the opposite problems, need new musicians on my playlists. Dance-music wise and some curveballs are allowed as well. Thing is people want to get on playlists with a big reach, I'm building my fanbase, it takes time if you do organically, but once again nowadays so-called musicians put fame over going through the motion, which is painful as in any other career and industry.
wow i might be first
Yeaaah you are!
Iranian rave music? Sounds like it might be time to diversify! 😅
haha
Lol I actually have this problem cuz I bought a lot of fake plays and they all came from foreign countries so my music is being recommended next to foreign music
Spoti FLY. 😂😂😂
"A huuuuge no no".
i just type a name on UA-cam and your video come, so it keep happening to me, they inbox me about 10 times already i think its fakebit's important people don't get on this kind of scam,
It's a bit like those penny shuffle machines on Brighton seafront. Looks like a good bet, but you'll just end up winning a piece of crap worth less than you put in to it.
Hahah yep!
Yessss yessss dark tonesss I'm homeer
Playlist Push will definitely jab at your ego hard so you better have thick skin. I won’t use them again.
I think it’s all about how much money you can pay to get more streams. Just my opinion.
I keep getting adverts to listen to music from some playlists. “Get paid to listen to music all day!”
Jessie J was so wrong.... it's all about the money
I would never pay.. I block the scammers instantly
Never have.
Never will.
Make them come to you...
Truth is...... EVERYTHING is going to cost you one way or another, submit hub, and all the others are no better than direct payment for playlist placements, some are legit some are fake, but one thing is for sure nothing in this world is for FREE, you think the top big famous artist had no money behind them? (MILLIONS) Or paid for streams?? 🤣 Thats why they're on the top and we're at the bottom, they have the Machine $$$ behind them, MONEY rules the world dont get it twisted.
Never pay for a playlist, I'm sitting at 40,000 + monthly listeners on my Spotify, and over 2.5 Million verified streams, not a single paid playlist in site. It's about Spotify's algorithms, and nothing else. I have almost half a million streams just from Discover Weekly alone. Please before taking my advice, check my Spotify and verify what I'm saying, too many people saying they know what they're doing, and don't have the numbers to back it up. I do.
Edit: Artist name is Solar Heavy
So, how you did it?
@@MartinStrang Treat your Spotify page as a watering hole, bring everyone there, from all other outlets. Constantly be aiming people to that one spot, and you'll be surprised at how many start gathering.
I know this is possibly a nosey question but I'm about to release our very first single through various platforms in a few weeks and I'd like an idea of the numbers, is 2.5m streams on Spotify around £8000 or am I way off?