The extension of the Bakerloo line is expected to include two stations on Old Kent Road. One may still get called Old Kent Road, but this map shows them as Burgess Park and Brimmington Park.
@@michaelleiper I have lived on OKR for 40 years and I have never heard of 'Brimmington Park'. The proposals referred to OKR 1 and OKR 2. Burgess Park is certainly OKR 1 but the important cross street where OKR 2 is to be placed is 'Asylum Road' which is deemed problematic as a name; the 'asylum' is the fine set of buildings that were almshouses. I think the final proposal was that it be called 'Old Kent Road'.
@@uingaeoc3905 Brimmington Park is where the artificial football pitches are, down towards the Peckham end of Old Kent Road. Near the railway bridge over the road.
All to do with the soil being so difficult to tunnel through south of the river. Don't know how they managed it with the City and South London Line back in the old days but I think it's different now with automatic boring machines rather than teams of men digging away.
The Northern Line at Camden town has 2 pairs of platforms, one for each branch. No trackwork is actually needed to split the line. Camden town does however need a huge expansion in its padestrian interconnections as splitting the line would force a lot of people to transfer there. Currently the plans are to run a new central concorse between the pairs of platforms north towards the canal with a new entrance on Buck St. There is an issue with depots aswell that may need to be solved if the lines are to be completely operationally seperate. The NLE has passive provision to go onwards to Clapham Junction and maybe onwards to Putney.
Expanding a station like Camden Town though... *shudders at the complexity* I'm almost always in favour of public transport improvement projects but this one I'm pretty firmly against, at least right now. I don't believe there to be a good enough case for it.
They want to merge St Pancras (King's Cross) and Euston into a "mega station" but it'd be a nightmare, much like Bank and Monument which are the "same" station.
The “seems useless”. London Overground route will become extremely useful once hs2 is built. As it will allow people from the Jubilee Line and Metropolitan lines to easily get to Old Oak Common Station.
Hey man I know you say this is your second channel, but for me - this is my first choice. You seem relatively smart and are likable - but Minecraft doesn't do it for me. Random map info does. Cheers. Been watching for a few years at this point and I appreciate your random knowledge.
For real, I didnt even know he was a gamer loool, Ive been watching him for years but always just assumed that he was joking about this being a 2nd channel, I thought it was his only one!
Apparently the name Turkey Street comes from the Tokey family who lived in the area in the 15th century. The "big house" on Turkey Street used to be a pub called The Turkey. Looks like it closed in around 2012. The next station up from Turkey Street is Theobalds Grove, which must be one of the most mispronounced names in history.
There's something called the Tube Challenge, which is basically an ongoing competition to race by travelling to every tube station (currently 270, and this ignores overground, DLR etc) on the network in a day only using any public transport (including buses) or walking. It takes essentially all day, between 15-20 hours. The record was actually held a couple times by a popular UA-camr, who vlogs about the tube, of course.
The Tube challenge is quite strict too. You can't do it at weekends (but they have lots of line closures then) and you must get to each station solely by the Underground so there's no cheating by walking to Kensington Olympia from Earls Court because you have to wait for a train and they're few and far between.
I think it’s really weird that Reading is on the tube map even though it’s definitely not in London. It seems that the line goes towards the north while it goes west in reality, you can really see the tube map gets more cluttered and squished together since it was first made
Reading might not be 'in' London but even before Crossrail it had some of the best connections to central London, better than many places within Greater London.
We already have the Great Northern Railway, Northern Trains, Thameslink And Great Northern, the North London Line, and the Northern City Line. But hey - I'm sure another two Northern Lines couldn't hurt!
Still too confusing. If the Northern Line is split as suggested the two new lines mustn't both have "north" as a component... users will inevitably get them mixed up. I've considered Northern (for BPS) and Southern (for Morden) although tbh I don't really believe that's ideal either. Mind you it'd prevent half of the signage alterations!
They ought to extend the tramlink north of Wimbledon, across Central London via the cross-river route (a scheme Boris Johnson threw out the window when he was London mayor) and north from King's Cross St. Pancras to Finsbury Park, Stroud Green, Crouch End, Highgate and then either to Muswell Hill, Alexandra Palace, Wood Green and further East or to East Finchley, Finchley Central (taking over the Mill Hill branch of the Northern line) Mill Hill East, Copthall, Mill Hill Broadway, Edgware, Brockley Hill, Elstree, Bushey and Watford. Also, London Overground should reopen Primrose Hill Station (on a connecting "artery" route between Camden Road and South Hampstead and there's been a proposal to give each London Overground line its own name and colour.
The real problem they have with splitting the Northern Line (and they've tried) is that the building it's in at Camden Town is Grade I listed and the government and councils won't let them extend it to properly split the two tracks.
Note on the cross rail 2: the tunnel actually begins at Wimbledon. It does not use the existing line to Waterloo from Clapham. The new tunnel would start at Wimbledon so that it can go to balham or tooting and then to Clapham junction and across the river
This was a good video, but personally I think you may have focused too much on the drawn map rather than the physical. You mentioned quite a few times where certain things don’t make sense. And you’re correct, they don’t make sense, but only in terms of a drawn map. In a physical map, where you can see all the tracks and physical distances, all new stations, connections and extensions all make a lot of sense. I would really enjoy another video like this but where you just looked at the physical map :) thank youuuuuu,!
The two different branches of the Northern Line where originally separate lines, it was Underground Electric Railways of London that combined them. The Bank branch was the City & South London Railway, the first successful deep level, electric line, opened in 1890, whereas the Charing Cross branch consist of the Charing Cross, Euston & Hampstead Railway from 1907
With Heathrow it currently works cause the trains are running under ETCS, which allows for trains to keep moving more than traditional signalling systems. On the mainline it's a bit harder. He also completely ignored the extension past Abbey Wood....
7:48 "The problem is that the left branch goes not so far in both directions, but you could expand this if you wanted to..." Oh boy. Is someone going to tell him?
Northern line is the way it is because Mill Hill East is a shuttle, and half the Edgeware and High Barnet services either operate via The City Branch or the Charing Cross Branch. London Underground desperately wants to separate them, but Camden Town couldn't possibly take the number of people interchanging. And they've never gotten the funding to do so, even after 20 years of asking. In theory the Northern line branches through central London could take 36tph each, but because of the split it's only about 30tph, with major delays as soon as anything goes wrong.
There was also the Elizabeth line extension east of Abbey Wood and the new overground line going to Hounslow (which is why the line via Neasden is planned).
Why did you say it would be a bit ambitious to extend the Bakerloo line to Beckenham Junction and Hayes, which are zones 4 and 5 respectively - in a part of London that has nil other local tube lines?
These mostly wouldn’t be new lines. From Lewisham to Hayes the Bakerloo extension would replace south eastern services (which locals allegedly don’t want). The only new bit would be a spur to Beckenham Junction. But it would all cost money even so - which London doesn’t have!
Gotta love maps. I had lunch with a fellow Gricer last week and found out he also loves maps. I recommend looking at maps of suburban London from 100 years ago. It'll blow your mind how quickly villages became towns. It's like Cities Skylines in "endless money" mode.
The Piccadilly to Ealing Broadway would actually reduce connections for Heathrow traffic as it would just load nore of it onto the Piccadilly. At least at current you can change and get to the whole Thames bank with the District. The proposed Northern line split is feasible with a lot of expansion of the passenger concorse (platforms are already there), but the branches are incorrectly assigned here. Because of the geography of the exisiting tracks, the Edgware branch is easier into Bank and the High Barnet one into Charing Cross and Battersea.
My thought for 2040: District line - Edgware Road - Wimbledon / Kensington Olympia branch may be separated from District line and forming Kensington line. Ealing Broadway branch for District line may retain and may eventually add an extra branch to Rayners Lane, while Piccadilly line may still also branch to Ealing Broadway (in that sense those Piccadilly line trains will no longer terminate at Rayners Lane but will all continue its way to Uxbridge).
Honestly i think the north of london is really well connected and I think they should pritorise the southern bit of london like the Bakerloo and crossrail 2 extensions as well as the trams.
AS SOON as i saw the thumbnail 2040 I KNEW you were a subscriber to Archaix Channel and this were going to be about the Phoenix.Event due : Unpause here we go!
This is assuming that London can continue swallowing up the lions share of spending on transport investment. Its time that rest of the regions in the country had decent public transport. Leeds is the largest city in Europe that is still totally reliant on buses and the situation elsewhere is not much better. Buses outside of London are expensive, unreliable and not that frequent with many areas having nothing in an evening or on a Sunday. Manchester has a decent tramway and our other big cities need to be bought up to this standard first. Rail has been badly neglected for decades especially in the north and is crying out for investment. I am sure that Londoners would have loved riding the pacers that were an everyday event for the people of Manchester and Leeds. Then there are the issues that occurred with the Elizabeth line as it was way over budget and heavily delayed. Time for a rethink on how we invest in public transport. London is not the centre of the universe.
I'm looking forward to them reinstating the connection between Croxley and Watford Junction via Watford High Street. Why does it always get left off the future planning maps?
Crossrail 2. I am a bit surprised by the fact it will serve Victoria despite being a SWR line as I believe that there is a need to have better connections and increased capacity from Clapham Junction to Vauxhall, Waterloo, Leicester Sq then the Euston/Kings Cross/St Pancreas complex. Leicester Square tube is too small and overcrowded so a line on Crossrail 2 serving an enlarger Leicester Square station could help manage demand from those wanting a faster connection to other major points such a mainline rail stations and even the British Museum which could be an intermediate stop heading north.
Manchester is much more simpler. We have the Metrolink to serve local towns via Manchester City Centre then Victoria and Piccadilly for other trains going further adrift, there are a number of projects to use existing train lines for Metrolink hybrid tram-trains. In the near future, I could see this kind of map in Manchester.
I always thought LO to New Cross could be extended to Charlton via Lewisham and take over that line while the NR services could make use of the other route via Greenwich. Also I think linking CR2 to Epsom is daft given that Epsom already has a connection to Victoria. Turkey Street is located in Bullsmoor but I guess it's just a more memorable name like the forthcoming Pineapple Road in Birmingham. Also I'd advise against commenting on people's houses on public videos - bit like uploading pictures with strangers in to Facebook.
@@charliew729 Don't bring nonexistent nuance into the situation. The current Watford station serves nowhere. Taking it along that new route will make it much more useful to more people and increase passenger numbers. The old station can easily be reused for something locals want whilst preserving the architectural heritage of the site.
@@mar07in "it serves nowhere" except for the locals u mentioned a few lines later... It's not a nuance but rather an essential part of the livelihoods of people in the vicinity
There is talk of running a passenger shuttle down the tracks used by freight trains from Southall, under Three Bridges, and on past Boston Manor Park to the Great West Road near Brentford. Let’s call it the “Boston Manor Linkline”
Consolidation of DLR is missing - there's a dormant plan to replace Tower Gateway terminus with a through Tower Hill station on the Bank branch of DLR interchanging with the underground.
1:37 Why wouldn't there be I intermediate station to the north of Morden as an interchange between the current tramway lines 2 & 4 and the suggested one? Isn't the Battersea Power Station extension enough interconnectivity neglegt? Why would they be building milelong mined tunnels for a deviation of Crossrail 2 to the Northern Line (instead of going underground for the core just to the south of Victoria), but not be connecting the Bakerloo's Lewisham extension to the Overground's South London or doing minor adaptions for a modern cohesive topology not just for traditional radial commuting? 6:35 Camden Town already has 4 platforms. And isn't it a benefit to reach each of the two branches in the alternate set over Camden Town without changing as long as TfL is able to keep pace operationally?
Interesting but in your comments you mention the tube limitations to/from Heathrow would extending the lines from Ealing to Heathrow provide better resilience when the Piccadilly line is closed for maintenance or due to incidents. It would allow the district line (as it currently is) and central line to serve Heathrow.
ibx2cat, there's one extension to Clapham Junction from Battersea Power Station has given approval, if there was on news or not, check the latest on rail if they have, (otherwise if I get wrong because TfL / MoL hasn't announced yet, is there(?)).
Agreed. I'm not even from SE, but firmly believe that (to start off with) the Bakerloo Line extension to Lewisham is the most important thing that TfL should be focusing their resources on.
I think a cross rail style railway in south east London around dulwich and Sydenham would be useful because there’s already track but different railways use it and nothing is part of tfl accept for the London overground line I live near Surrey quays and the gal between Surrey quays and new cross is ridiculous, they could build new Bermondsey but south Bermondsey already exists as a station about 20 metres away from where the overground joins the tracks, also this would be right outside the Millwall stadium
Nice drawing lines on the map, but such are the financial problems of TFL and the decline in passenger numbers that we’ll be lucky to retain the network we have now let alone add to it. The Bakerloo Line extension to Lewisham is first in the queue for any new projects, but conversely there has been talk of mothballing the entire existing line as it is in dire need of modernisation. Meanwhile the inhabitants of West Wickham and Hayes allegedly don’t want any tube extension that comes near them as it would replace existing south eastern surface rail service. Great to have your enthusiasm though. Could you try to speak a bit more slowly?
I suggest that there are too many words that need to spoken in this video, so the delivery tends towards gabbling. I suggest the video is split into two parts of the same length which adds space to slow down the delivery of the words. I suggest this can be done by 2040. If it works for the London Underground, then it can work for this video!
I find your ideas very interesting ibx2cat. However our solutions will be very different and my vision for 2040 will be nothing like the map what you review in your video. Please let us exchange ideas and solutions as I am intruiged to know what your solutions are for London!
I don't think extending tube lines into all those other lines is really needed, and stuff like New Cross, while odd, makes best sense as a connection. I think the Tube Map not including all those other services is just misleading when perhaps some sort of centralization of station identity/interchanging and pay, assuming it's not already the case. I don't really know the in and outs of Oyster.
Omg I didn't know they'd expanded the Northern Line to Nine Elms / BPS!!!! I lived near there years ago before they built all those hideous buildings there.I can't stand Vauxhall and always used to walk to Stockwell instead. I prefer West London, though.
Video: Do this kind of video, but for Merseyrail. With the new battery electric trains being rolled out, it opens up quite a few possibilities for network expansion in the future, especially if using the timescale of 2040.
It shows the Piccadilly line stopping at Chiswick Park on the map. I have actually caught a Piccadilly line train at Chiswick Park at around 5:30am on a weekend about 30 years ago. No idea why it was running on the District line track that day (probably just the first train on Sunday or something - I was not normally there that early) - but it had switched to the Piccadilly line tracks by the time we got to Hammersmith.
This map shows Chiswick Park as being on the Piccadilly Line, but I suspect what would actually happen is that Heathrow trains would stay on the fast lines and bypass Chiswick Park, and Ealing Broadway/Uxbridge trains would switch to the slows and call. So the map would look just like the Northern Line between Camden and Euston -- replace Camden Town with Turnham Green, Mornington Crescent with Chiswick Park, and Euston with Acton Town.
Surprised no extension of the District line from Richmond to Heathrow via Twickenham, Twickenham Stadium and Feltham (Mainline railway). The connectivity of Wembley is far superior to Twickenham but this needs to be addressed and linking our major sporting venues to major transport infrastructure could be improved such as Twickenham to Heathrow or Stratford to Stansted. Wembley I will comment separately on.
@@davidflack6430 a real shame as we should be promoting public transport to get to tourist attractions and sporting venues so this is a real shame. If it had continued to Heathrow then it would help with transporting fans needing to use air travel to get to London.
ibx2cat seems unaware of the proposal to change the representation of the Overground routes with colours and names for the different sections. The confusion of the western ends of the District Line could be simplified if the actual routes from the South and West branches to and from Edgware Road, an actual Terminus, were distinguished with a different colour and formally named by the term used internally at TfL as 'West London Services'.
They looked seriously at it, as the original Victoria line was meant to extend to Herne Hill. They have determined that the overcrowding from doing so would be so extreme, that even at 40tph (which is the theoretical maximum of the Victoria line, with improvements to both terminus areas (With Herne Hill meant to be a one way loop) - it couldn't work
The problem with the tube map is it’s no longer a tube map. It’s becoming more and more congested which makes it more difficult for people to understand.
Im gonna make some trains to make the london busier 1st I made a new Crossrail 3 William line Oxford oxford parkway islip bicester village haddenham and thame parkway princes rosborough high wycombe beaconsfield gerrards cross denham golf club denham west ruislip rayners lane sudbury hill harrow sudbury and harrow road wembley central willesden junction paddington victoria tottenham court road blackfriars london bridge tower hill canary wharf london city airport beckton barking branch 2 canary wharf greenwich maze hill westcombe park charlton woolwich dockyard branch 3 westcombe park kidbrooke eltham falconwood welling bexleyheath barnehurst dartford branch 4 barnehurst crayford bexley albany park sid cup new eltham mottingham lee grove park elmstead woods chislehurst petts wood orpington chelsfield knockholt dunton green sevenoaks tonbridge high brooms tunbridge wells branch 5 skipping stops branch london bridge to barking skipping tower hill and canary wharf branch 6 paddington to oxford skipping oxford parkway islip bicester village willesden junction and wembley central 58 stops 2nd train for this train the lea valley line trains are gone and the next trains will take over enfield town and cheshunt branch the new train for 2nd Edmonton and barons line edmonton green silver street white hart lane bruce grove seven sisters stamford hill stoke newington rectory road hackney downs london fields cambridge heath bethnal green liverpool street aldgate tower hill monument cannon street mansion house blackfriars temple embankment westminster st james park victoria sloane square south kensington gloucester road earls court west kensington barons court S7 stock 3rd line Ereden line Enfield town bush hill park edmonton green silver street white hart lanr bruce grove seven sisters stamford hill stoke newington rectory road hackney downs london fields cambridge heath bethnal green liverpool street moorgate barbican farringdon kings cross st pancras euston square great portland street baker street edgware road paddington royal oak westbourne park ladbroke grove latimer road wood lane shepherds bush market goldhawk road Hammersmith s7 stock 32 stops 4th train Maro line Claybury waltham forest william morris seven sisters newington green essex road farringdon chancery lane Blackfriars waterloo victoria knightsbridge queensway old oak common 14 stops 2019 stock 5th train Dixie its not a line its a suburban like the overground so cheshunt theobalds grove turkey street southbury edmonton green silver street white hart lane bruce grove seven sisters west green road 1 west green road 2 haringey hill drop park camden road kings cross st pancras bloomsbury square charing cross westminster pimlico battersea power battersea park queenstown road branch 2 edmonton green bush hill park enfield chase chase farm branch 3 waltham abbey daws hill yardley lane hawksmouth mansfield park chingford mount south chingford cooks ferry northumblerand park down lane seven sisters stamford hill stoke newibgton rectory road hackney downs london fields cambridge heath bethnal green liverpool street branch 4 chingford highams park wood street walthamstow central st james street clapton hackney downs london fields cambridge heath bethnal green liverpool street london bridge branch 5 Epping upshire high beech woodford green hale end crooked billet walthamstow central bakers arms whipps cross green man aldersbrook cann hall stratford fish island globe town whitechapel london bridge walworth camberwell green Trinity hill west norwood norbury elmwood fields beddington carshalton sutton branch 6 beddington south beddington woodcote woodmansterne banstead branch 7 woodmansterne mugswell redhill branch 8 woodmansterne Old coulsdon branch 9 10 11 woodford green nuffield heath debden green hobbs cross fiddlers hamelt north weald ongar branch 12 Stratford bromley by biw bow common limehouse wapping bermondsey elephant and castle pimlico belgravia hallfield maida hill north kensington kensal town west kilburn college park old oak common old oak common lane acton main line acton heath ealing broadway st benedicts west ealing ashmead hanwell dormers wells southall east southall southall green minet hayes town hayes and harlington heathrow terminals 2 and 3 heathrow terminal 4 branch 13 heathrow terminals 2and 3 heathrow terminal 5 111 stops class 378 6th train a rail Londoncityrail Kings cross waterloo walworth deptford crossharbour london city airport 6 stops class 720 7th train londoncityexpress kings cross london city airport 2 stops class 350 8th train another line Union line Seven sisters shacklewell shoreditch high street liverpool street city thameslink covent garden oxford circus tyburnia edgware road st johhns wood london zoo 1992 stock 11 stops it does not meet with district properly and never with northern 9th train waterloo and city line extension waterloo bank shoreditch high street spitalfields aldgate east aldgate lower thames street and bank and waterloo creating a loop it will say like to waterloo via spitalfields or waterloo via bank 10th train victoria line extension brixton streatham hill streatham streatham common norbury thornton heath selhurst east croydon branch 2 selhurst west croydon purley quick note theres new stations on the dixie i made 11th train central line extension to uxbridge ruislip gardens ickenham hillingdon uxbridge the rails are already made for this one i think they might be considering it 12th train for crossrail 2 extension the eastbound branch will go to stratford international why not create a loop going from stratford international lea bridge and tottenham hale while the other route from dalston to tottenham hale goes with non stop this one will go stops serving to hackney central aswell
Its shocking how no underground line goes through Old Kent Road despite how central a location it is.
The extension of the Bakerloo line is expected to include two stations on Old Kent Road.
One may still get called Old Kent Road, but this map shows them as Burgess Park and Brimmington Park.
I travelled on the one of the last trams down the Old Kent Road
@@michaelleiper I have lived on OKR for 40 years and I have never heard of 'Brimmington Park'. The proposals referred to OKR 1 and OKR 2. Burgess Park is certainly OKR 1 but the important cross street where OKR 2 is to be placed is 'Asylum Road' which is deemed problematic as a name; the 'asylum' is the fine set of buildings that were almshouses. I think the final proposal was that it be called 'Old Kent Road'.
@@uingaeoc3905 Brimmington Park is where the artificial football pitches are, down towards the Peckham end of Old Kent Road. Near the railway bridge over the road.
All to do with the soil being so difficult to tunnel through south of the river. Don't know how they managed it with the City and South London Line back in the old days but I think it's different now with automatic boring machines rather than teams of men digging away.
The Northern Line at Camden town has 2 pairs of platforms, one for each branch. No trackwork is actually needed to split the line. Camden town does however need a huge expansion in its padestrian interconnections as splitting the line would force a lot of people to transfer there. Currently the plans are to run a new central concorse between the pairs of platforms north towards the canal with a new entrance on Buck St. There is an issue with depots aswell that may need to be solved if the lines are to be completely operationally seperate.
The NLE has passive provision to go onwards to Clapham Junction and maybe onwards to Putney.
could we make the two halves the "Edgware line" and the "Morden line"?
Expanding a station like Camden Town though... *shudders at the complexity* I'm almost always in favour of public transport improvement projects but this one I'm pretty firmly against, at least right now. I don't believe there to be a good enough case for it.
@@Nooticus That's interesting - why are you against it?
@@notthatntg Edgham/Clapware and Barden/Mornet
The real problem with the expansion is that the building is Grade I listed, and they've tried and tried, but goooood luck.
They want to merge St Pancras (King's Cross) and Euston into a "mega station" but it'd be a nightmare, much like Bank and Monument which are the "same" station.
KX/St Pancras and Euston would be a Crossrail 2 mega station.
You mean like Chatalet on Paris's metro system.
The “seems useless”. London Overground route will become extremely useful once hs2 is built. As it will allow people from the Jubilee Line and Metropolitan lines to easily get to Old Oak Common Station.
Hey man I know you say this is your second channel, but for me - this is my first choice. You seem relatively smart and are likable - but Minecraft doesn't do it for me. Random map info does. Cheers. Been watching for a few years at this point and I appreciate your random knowledge.
For real, I didnt even know he was a gamer loool, Ive been watching him for years but always just assumed that he was joking about this being a 2nd channel, I thought it was his only one!
I only watch the 2nd channel.
Who cares about minecraft on a tube video
Apparently the name Turkey Street comes from the Tokey family who lived in the area in the 15th century.
The "big house" on Turkey Street used to be a pub called The Turkey. Looks like it closed in around 2012.
The next station up from Turkey Street is Theobalds Grove, which must be one of the most mispronounced names in history.
I don't live to far from it, Turkey Street is my closest Station. Theobald's is pronounced Fear Balds 🤔
@@Pez1979 It’s pronounced Thear balds.
I've been to every station on my city's train lines. If I lived in London, I wouldn't even be able to say I went across town without getting lost.
There's something called the Tube Challenge, which is basically an ongoing competition to race by travelling to every tube station (currently 270, and this ignores overground, DLR etc) on the network in a day only using any public transport (including buses) or walking. It takes essentially all day, between 15-20 hours. The record was actually held a couple times by a popular UA-camr, who vlogs about the tube, of course.
@@Skasaha_ Geoff Marshall??
The Tube challenge is quite strict too. You can't do it at weekends (but they have lots of line closures then) and you must get to each station solely by the Underground so there's no cheating by walking to Kensington Olympia from Earls Court because you have to wait for a train and they're few and far between.
Wow, you got to Mornington Crescent without going into Nidd, I am very impressed.
Very nice video. I can see London expanding more with more lines being added and extensions being added as well. Very good work. 👍
I think it’s really weird that Reading is on the tube map even though it’s definitely not in London. It seems that the line goes towards the north while it goes west in reality, you can really see the tube map gets more cluttered and squished together since it was first made
Reading might not be 'in' London but even before Crossrail it had some of the best connections to central London, better than many places within Greater London.
@@rogink Precisely, It’s quicker to get a train from Paddington to Reading (average 22min) than it is to take the tube to Aldgate (average 26min)
I’m pretty sure that the northern line is going to get an extension to Clapham Junction, not sure why they didn’t show it on this map though.
I like calling it the Greater northern and the lesser northern lines
We already have the Great Northern Railway, Northern Trains, Thameslink And Great Northern, the North London Line, and the Northern City Line. But hey - I'm sure another two Northern Lines couldn't hurt!
Northener/Northenest
Still too confusing. If the Northern Line is split as suggested the two new lines mustn't both have "north" as a component... users will inevitably get them mixed up. I've considered Northern (for BPS) and Southern (for Morden) although tbh I don't really believe that's ideal either. Mind you it'd prevent half of the signage alterations!
@Marcel Wiszowaty OK then we can split it into two with the nor line and the thern line
Superior Northern and Inferior Northern
They ought to extend the tramlink north of Wimbledon, across Central London via the cross-river route (a scheme Boris Johnson threw out the window when he was London mayor) and north from King's Cross St. Pancras to Finsbury Park, Stroud Green, Crouch End, Highgate and then either to Muswell Hill, Alexandra Palace, Wood Green and further East or to East Finchley, Finchley Central (taking over the Mill Hill branch of the Northern line) Mill Hill East, Copthall, Mill Hill Broadway, Edgware, Brockley Hill, Elstree, Bushey and Watford.
Also, London Overground should reopen Primrose Hill Station (on a connecting "artery" route between Camden Road and South Hampstead and there's been a proposal to give each London Overground line its own name and colour.
Is there a Line that takes Londoners to Best Kebab?
yes, Thameslink from St Pancras/Farringdon/Blackfriars goes to Luton like every 15 minutes lol
@@Nooticus London Bridge and City Thameslink too
@@memediatek ofc
The real problem they have with splitting the Northern Line (and they've tried) is that the building it's in at Camden Town is Grade I listed and the government and councils won't let them extend it to properly split the two tracks.
It's not just the one building, the original plan (from the 2000s iirc) called for demoliton of *several* buildings on that street.
@@tomwatts703 Ahh!
You forgot to mention the Overground extension to Hounslow.
And Old oak common
Note on the cross rail 2: the tunnel actually begins at Wimbledon. It does not use the existing line to Waterloo from Clapham. The new tunnel would start at Wimbledon so that it can go to balham or tooting and then to Clapham junction and across the river
This was a good video, but personally I think you may have focused too much on the drawn map rather than the physical. You mentioned quite a few times where certain things don’t make sense. And you’re correct, they don’t make sense, but only in terms of a drawn map. In a physical map, where you can see all the tracks and physical distances, all new stations, connections and extensions all make a lot of sense. I would really enjoy another video like this but where you just looked at the physical map :) thank youuuuuu,!
The two different branches of the Northern Line where originally separate lines, it was Underground Electric Railways of London that combined them. The Bank branch was the City & South London Railway, the first successful deep level, electric line, opened in 1890, whereas the Charing Cross branch consist of the Charing Cross, Euston & Hampstead Railway from 1907
With Heathrow it currently works cause the trains are running under ETCS, which allows for trains to keep moving more than traditional signalling systems. On the mainline it's a bit harder.
He also completely ignored the extension past Abbey Wood....
7:48 "The problem is that the left branch goes not so far in both directions, but you could expand this if you wanted to..."
Oh boy. Is someone going to tell him?
Ok
*Cancelled Northern Heights Plan intensifies*
@@qtrainprod The sprawl MUST expand.......
I hope we get more Metro map content in the future.
Northern line is the way it is because Mill Hill East is a shuttle, and half the Edgeware and High Barnet services either operate via The City Branch or the Charing Cross Branch. London Underground desperately wants to separate them, but Camden Town couldn't possibly take the number of people interchanging. And they've never gotten the funding to do so, even after 20 years of asking.
In theory the Northern line branches through central London could take 36tph each, but because of the split it's only about 30tph, with major delays as soon as anything goes wrong.
There was also the Elizabeth line extension east of Abbey Wood and the new overground line going to Hounslow (which is why the line via Neasden is planned).
Why did you say it would be a bit ambitious to extend the Bakerloo line to Beckenham Junction and Hayes, which are zones 4 and 5 respectively - in a part of London that has nil other local tube lines?
I think the ambitious aspect would be the funding. I’m all for it, but I can’t see it being funded. I hope I’m wrong.
These mostly wouldn’t be new lines. From Lewisham to Hayes the Bakerloo extension would replace south eastern services (which locals allegedly don’t want). The only new bit would be a spur to Beckenham Junction. But it would all cost money even so - which London doesn’t have!
Geoff Marshall needs to do a video on this too 😂😂
Toycat is the new Geoff Marshall
I see they still have the Johnson dangleway in 2040... I expect that will be long abandoned by then!
Plus DLR can extend any to Dagenham Dock, Thamesmead, Charing Cross from Bank etc.
New Bermondsey is now called Surrey Canal
Gotta love maps. I had lunch with a fellow Gricer last week and found out he also loves maps.
I recommend looking at maps of suburban London from 100 years ago. It'll blow your mind how quickly villages became towns. It's like Cities Skylines in "endless money" mode.
The Piccadilly to Ealing Broadway would actually reduce connections for Heathrow traffic as it would just load nore of it onto the Piccadilly. At least at current you can change and get to the whole Thames bank with the District.
The proposed Northern line split is feasible with a lot of expansion of the passenger concorse (platforms are already there), but the branches are incorrectly assigned here. Because of the geography of the exisiting tracks, the Edgware branch is easier into Bank and the High Barnet one into Charing Cross and Battersea.
My thought for 2040: District line - Edgware Road - Wimbledon / Kensington Olympia branch may be separated from District line and forming Kensington line. Ealing Broadway branch for District line may retain and may eventually add an extra branch to Rayners Lane, while Piccadilly line may still also branch to Ealing Broadway (in that sense those Piccadilly line trains will no longer terminate at Rayners Lane but will all continue its way to Uxbridge).
Honestly i think the north of london is really well connected and I think they should pritorise the southern bit of london like the Bakerloo and crossrail 2 extensions as well as the trams.
Great video
AS SOON as i saw the thumbnail 2040 I KNEW you were a subscriber to Archaix Channel and this were going to be about the Phoenix.Event due : Unpause here we go!
This is assuming that London can continue swallowing up the lions share of spending on transport investment. Its time that rest of the regions in the country had decent public transport. Leeds is the largest city in Europe that is still totally reliant on buses and the situation elsewhere is not much better. Buses outside of London are expensive, unreliable and not that frequent with many areas having nothing in an evening or on a Sunday. Manchester has a decent tramway and our other big cities need to be bought up to this standard first. Rail has been badly neglected for decades especially in the north and is crying out for investment. I am sure that Londoners would have loved riding the pacers that were an everyday event for the people of Manchester and Leeds. Then there are the issues that occurred with the Elizabeth line as it was way over budget and heavily delayed. Time for a rethink on how we invest in public transport. London is not the centre of the universe.
I'm looking forward to them reinstating the connection between Croxley and Watford Junction via Watford High Street. Why does it always get left off the future planning maps?
Cross rail 2 (if it happens) should definitely link to Heathrow too… saves a bus ride on the X26
11:30 That is the proposed West Hampstead to Hounslow Line
Crossrail 2. I am a bit surprised by the fact it will serve Victoria despite being a SWR line as I believe that there is a need to have better connections and increased capacity from Clapham Junction to Vauxhall, Waterloo, Leicester Sq then the Euston/Kings Cross/St Pancreas complex.
Leicester Square tube is too small and overcrowded so a line on Crossrail 2 serving an enlarger Leicester Square station could help manage demand from those wanting a faster connection to other major points such a mainline rail stations and even the British Museum which could be an intermediate stop heading north.
Manchester is much more simpler. We have the Metrolink to serve local towns via Manchester City Centre then Victoria and Piccadilly for other trains going further adrift, there are a number of projects to use existing train lines for Metrolink hybrid tram-trains. In the near future, I could see this kind of map in Manchester.
"... not actually that expensive to just dig a new tunnel in the center ..." LOL
Anyone watching in 2040?
Redding is probably a troll who wanted to infuriate new English speakers who learned reading
Dont forget that New Cross and New Cross Gate to Shoreditch used to be the East London Line via Whitechapel
This is such a random niche channel that fits my interests perfectly - it’s honestly bizarre.
I always thought LO to New Cross could be extended to Charlton via Lewisham and take over that line while the NR services could make use of the other route via Greenwich. Also I think linking CR2 to Epsom is daft given that Epsom already has a connection to Victoria.
Turkey Street is located in Bullsmoor but I guess it's just a more memorable name like the forthcoming Pineapple Road in Birmingham.
Also I'd advise against commenting on people's houses on public videos - bit like uploading pictures with strangers in to Facebook.
Interesting, but no mention of the Croxley Rail Link
That’s because the “save the met campaign” for watford was successful lmao my dad headed it
@@charliew729 Surely building the link would save, or at least help the met lmao
@@mar07in it’s more complicated then that. In theory the Croxley rail link would have come at the expense of the current watford met station
@@charliew729 Don't bring nonexistent nuance into the situation. The current Watford station serves nowhere. Taking it along that new route will make it much more useful to more people and increase passenger numbers. The old station can easily be reused for something locals want whilst preserving the architectural heritage of the site.
@@mar07in "it serves nowhere" except for the locals u mentioned a few lines later... It's not a nuance but rather an essential part of the livelihoods of people in the vicinity
There is talk of running a passenger shuttle down the tracks used by freight trains from Southall, under Three Bridges, and on past Boston Manor Park to the Great West Road near Brentford. Let’s call it the “Boston Manor Linkline”
So confused of your Piccadilly line to Ealing Broadway to give an option to Heathrow via XR? Was it meant to be a joke?
Consolidation of DLR is missing - there's a dormant plan to replace Tower Gateway terminus with a through Tower Hill station on the Bank branch of DLR interchanging with the underground.
I love "Glouchester"! 🤣
Hey, I’ve been on a hidden london tour today and they confirmed the bakerloo line extension to Lewisham
By 2040 I would have thought that many of the lines will have been sold off to different operators and you'll need different maps for each owner.
Another scheme they should include is the DLR extension to Dagenham Dock, which Boris Johnson also threw out the window and should be restarted.
I don't live in London, nor have I ever been on an underground train. So why did I watch this video? ...Because Toycat
Some large clearly marked stations at the edge of the ULEZ zone would be extremely useful!
Park + Ride?
Nice dream, but if all this happens by 2040 I’ll be amazed! 😆
1:37 Why wouldn't there be I intermediate station to the north of Morden as an interchange between the current tramway lines 2 & 4 and the suggested one? Isn't the Battersea Power Station extension enough interconnectivity neglegt? Why would they be building milelong mined tunnels for a deviation of Crossrail 2 to the Northern Line (instead of going underground for the core just to the south of Victoria), but not be connecting the Bakerloo's Lewisham extension to the Overground's South London or doing minor adaptions for a modern cohesive topology not just for traditional radial commuting?
6:35 Camden Town already has 4 platforms. And isn't it a benefit to reach each of the two branches in the alternate set over Camden Town without changing as long as TfL is able to keep pace operationally?
Interesting but in your comments you mention the tube limitations to/from Heathrow would extending the lines from Ealing to Heathrow provide better resilience when the Piccadilly line is closed for maintenance or due to incidents. It would allow the district line (as it currently is) and central line to serve Heathrow.
ibx2cat, there's one extension to Clapham Junction from Battersea Power Station has given approval, if there was on news or not, check the latest on rail if they have, (otherwise if I get wrong because TfL / MoL hasn't announced yet, is there(?)).
Maybe if I keep praying, they’ll extend the LU to south east London zone 4-6.
Agreed. I'm not even from SE, but firmly believe that (to start off with) the Bakerloo Line extension to Lewisham is the most important thing that TfL should be focusing their resources on.
agreed im tired of the delays on the southeastern trains
the piccadilly and district are parallel at many stations in the west, u want to change then u do it one of the many stops.
4:35 as somebody who lives in ealing (and local station on Elizabeth line) that sounds reasonable actually
I think a cross rail style railway in south east London around dulwich and Sydenham would be useful because there’s already track but different railways use it and nothing is part of tfl accept for the London overground line
I live near Surrey quays and the gal between Surrey quays and new cross is ridiculous, they could build new Bermondsey but south Bermondsey already exists as a station about 20 metres away from where the overground joins the tracks, also this would be right outside the Millwall stadium
Nice drawing lines on the map, but such are the financial problems of TFL and the decline in passenger numbers that we’ll be lucky to retain the network we have now let alone add to it. The Bakerloo Line extension to Lewisham is first in the queue for any new projects, but conversely there has been talk of mothballing the entire existing line as it is in dire need of modernisation. Meanwhile the inhabitants of West Wickham and Hayes allegedly don’t want any tube extension that comes near them as it would replace existing south eastern surface rail service.
Great to have your enthusiasm though. Could you try to speak a bit more slowly?
I suggest that there are too many words that need to spoken in this video, so the delivery tends towards gabbling. I suggest the video is split into two parts of the same length which adds space to slow down the delivery of the words. I suggest this can be done by 2040. If it works for the London Underground, then it can work for this video!
theres also some kind of elizabeth line extension to dartford and kent on that map, id be surprised if that happens by 2040 lmao
The Bakerloo extension from Lewisham would take over an existing tracks south eastern run so not that crazy an Idea at all
I find your ideas very interesting ibx2cat. However our solutions will be very different and my vision for 2040 will be nothing like the map what you review in your video. Please let us exchange ideas and solutions as I am intruiged to know what your solutions are for London!
This happens when Microsoft makes the “Better Together” edition of London.
bro forgot the "new" overground section from lionel road/kew bridge to hounslow 💀💀💀💀
I don't think extending tube lines into all those other lines is really needed, and stuff like New Cross, while odd, makes best sense as a connection. I think the Tube Map not including all those other services is just misleading when perhaps some sort of centralization of station identity/interchanging and pay, assuming it's not already the case. I don't really know the in and outs of Oyster.
Omg I didn't know they'd expanded the Northern Line to Nine Elms / BPS!!!! I lived near there years ago before they built all those hideous buildings there.I can't stand Vauxhall and always used to walk to Stockwell instead. I prefer West London, though.
Video: Do this kind of video, but for Merseyrail. With the new battery electric trains being rolled out, it opens up quite a few possibilities for network expansion in the future, especially if using the timescale of 2040.
If the Piccadilly line train took over the Ealing Broadway branch, what would happen to Chiswick Park station?
It shows the Piccadilly line stopping at Chiswick Park on the map.
I have actually caught a Piccadilly line train at Chiswick Park at around 5:30am on a weekend about 30 years ago.
No idea why it was running on the District line track that day (probably just the first train on Sunday or something - I was not normally there that early) - but it had switched to the Piccadilly line tracks by the time we got to Hammersmith.
This map shows Chiswick Park as being on the Piccadilly Line, but I suspect what would actually happen is that Heathrow trains would stay on the fast lines and bypass Chiswick Park, and Ealing Broadway/Uxbridge trains would switch to the slows and call. So the map would look just like the Northern Line between Camden and Euston -- replace Camden Town with Turnham Green, Mornington Crescent with Chiswick Park, and Euston with Acton Town.
@@alistairbell3935 Yes - probably true
they should incl the northern line extension to Clapham junction
Surprised no extension of the District line from Richmond to Heathrow via Twickenham, Twickenham Stadium and Feltham (Mainline railway).
The connectivity of Wembley is far superior to Twickenham but this needs to be addressed and linking our major sporting venues to major transport infrastructure could be improved such as Twickenham to Heathrow or Stratford to Stansted. Wembley I will comment separately on.
There was a crossover at Richmond to allow for this that has now been removed.
@@davidflack6430 a real shame as we should be promoting public transport to get to tourist attractions and sporting venues so this is a real shame. If it had continued to Heathrow then it would help with transporting fans needing to use air travel to get to London.
Neasden is only served by Jubilee, so they added the Metropolitan Line to it.
You never said about metpoton line on tfl map fast and semi fast ?
Crossrail 2 would cost an estimated £38bln, double Crossrail.
For the new cross overground to be extended you'd need to rebuild the station entrance
ibx2cat seems unaware of the proposal to change the representation of the Overground routes with colours and names for the different sections.
The confusion of the western ends of the District Line could be simplified if the actual routes from the South and West branches to and from Edgware Road, an actual Terminus, were distinguished with a different colour and formally named by the term used internally at TfL as 'West London Services'.
The only trains that (regularly) go to Edgware Road are the ones from Wimbledon so you wouldn't really be making anything much better
By 2040 the Northern Line (West) is likely to be extended by 2.4km from Battersea Power Station to Clapham Junction.
District line does good service to Ealing Broadway.
You sayed reading in London it it Berkshire?
You forgot the extension from Abbey Wood on the Elizabeth line!!!
A rather complicated video
Another line that I would like to see go further south is the Victoria line. Probably not realistic by 2040, but maybe for the 2060 tube map!
They looked seriously at it, as the original Victoria line was meant to extend to Herne Hill. They have determined that the overcrowding from doing so would be so extreme, that even at 40tph (which is the theoretical maximum of the Victoria line, with improvements to both terminus areas (With Herne Hill meant to be a one way loop) - it couldn't work
@@rogue265 Just saw Jago Hazard's video on this!
3:37 You said correct: it’s glou-STER
The problem with the tube map is it’s no longer a tube map. It’s becoming more and more congested which makes it more difficult for people to understand.
District line does good service Ealing Broadway leave as it ?
i fully think that the separated northern line should be called the northeastern line and the northwestern line and that is a hill i will die upon
the ealing broadway change is not needed. you dont need two trains going to heathrow.
Northwest to northeast would be good. Like still in the London travel zone if that makes sense.
Predicting the present is always easier than predicting the future....
Im gonna make some trains to make the london busier 1st I made a new Crossrail 3 William line Oxford oxford parkway islip bicester village haddenham and thame parkway princes rosborough high wycombe beaconsfield gerrards cross denham golf club denham west ruislip rayners lane sudbury hill harrow sudbury and harrow road wembley central willesden junction paddington victoria tottenham court road blackfriars london bridge tower hill canary wharf london city airport beckton barking branch 2 canary wharf greenwich maze hill westcombe park charlton woolwich dockyard branch 3 westcombe park kidbrooke eltham falconwood welling bexleyheath barnehurst dartford branch 4 barnehurst crayford bexley albany park sid cup new eltham mottingham lee grove park elmstead woods chislehurst petts wood orpington chelsfield knockholt dunton green sevenoaks tonbridge high brooms tunbridge wells branch 5 skipping stops branch london bridge to barking skipping tower hill and canary wharf branch 6 paddington to oxford skipping oxford parkway islip bicester village willesden junction and wembley central 58 stops 2nd train for this train the lea valley line trains are gone and the next trains will take over enfield town and cheshunt branch the new train for 2nd Edmonton and barons line edmonton green silver street white hart lane bruce grove seven sisters stamford hill stoke newington rectory road hackney downs london fields cambridge heath bethnal green liverpool street aldgate tower hill monument cannon street mansion house blackfriars temple embankment westminster st james park victoria sloane square south kensington gloucester road earls court west kensington barons court S7 stock 3rd line Ereden line Enfield town bush hill park edmonton green silver street white hart lanr bruce grove seven sisters stamford hill stoke newington rectory road hackney downs london fields cambridge heath bethnal green liverpool street moorgate barbican farringdon kings cross st pancras euston square great portland street baker street edgware road paddington royal oak westbourne park ladbroke grove latimer road wood lane shepherds bush market goldhawk road Hammersmith s7 stock 32 stops 4th train Maro line Claybury waltham forest william morris seven sisters newington green essex road farringdon chancery lane Blackfriars waterloo victoria knightsbridge queensway old oak common 14 stops 2019 stock 5th train Dixie its not a line its a suburban like the overground so cheshunt theobalds grove turkey street southbury edmonton green silver street white hart lane bruce grove seven sisters west green road 1 west green road 2 haringey hill drop park camden road kings cross st pancras bloomsbury square charing cross westminster pimlico battersea power battersea park queenstown road branch 2 edmonton green bush hill park enfield chase chase farm branch 3 waltham abbey daws hill yardley lane hawksmouth mansfield park chingford mount south chingford cooks ferry northumblerand park down lane seven sisters stamford hill stoke newibgton rectory road hackney downs london fields cambridge heath bethnal green liverpool street branch 4 chingford highams park wood street walthamstow central st james street clapton hackney downs london fields cambridge heath bethnal green liverpool street london bridge branch 5 Epping upshire high beech woodford green hale end crooked billet walthamstow central bakers arms whipps cross green man aldersbrook cann hall stratford fish island globe town whitechapel london bridge walworth camberwell green Trinity hill west norwood norbury elmwood fields beddington carshalton sutton branch 6 beddington south beddington woodcote woodmansterne banstead branch 7 woodmansterne mugswell redhill branch 8 woodmansterne Old coulsdon branch 9 10 11 woodford green nuffield heath debden green hobbs cross fiddlers hamelt north weald ongar branch 12 Stratford bromley by biw bow common limehouse wapping bermondsey elephant and castle pimlico belgravia hallfield maida hill north kensington kensal town west kilburn college park old oak common old oak common lane acton main line acton heath ealing broadway st benedicts west ealing ashmead hanwell dormers wells southall east southall southall green minet hayes town hayes and harlington heathrow terminals 2 and 3 heathrow terminal 4 branch 13 heathrow terminals 2and 3 heathrow terminal 5 111 stops class 378 6th train a rail Londoncityrail Kings cross waterloo walworth deptford crossharbour london city airport 6 stops class 720 7th train londoncityexpress kings cross london city airport 2 stops class 350 8th train another line Union line Seven sisters shacklewell shoreditch high street liverpool street city thameslink covent garden oxford circus tyburnia edgware road st johhns wood london zoo 1992 stock 11 stops it does not meet with district properly and never with northern 9th train waterloo and city line extension waterloo bank shoreditch high street spitalfields aldgate east aldgate lower thames street and bank and waterloo creating a loop it will say like to waterloo via spitalfields or waterloo via bank 10th train victoria line extension brixton streatham hill streatham streatham common norbury thornton heath selhurst east croydon branch 2 selhurst west croydon purley quick note theres new stations on the dixie i made 11th train central line extension to uxbridge ruislip gardens ickenham hillingdon uxbridge the rails are already made for this one i think they might be considering it 12th train for crossrail 2 extension the eastbound branch will go to stratford international why not create a loop going from stratford international lea bridge and tottenham hale while the other route from dalston to tottenham hale goes with non stop this one will go stops serving to hackney central aswell
Who agrees
12:50 there are plans to connect Euston to Kings Cross and St Pancreas
You need crossrail 2 ASAP?