Very informative video for people wanting to improve handling on a MQB platform without spending too much money. I'm curious thought, why choose to increase camber and caster with top strut mounts rather than lower control arms? You can get aluminium arms that also increase camber and caster with stiffer bushings as a bonus.
Personally I would have done Koni Yellows. Install can be a pain in the butt on the fronts, something an average DIYer doesn't want to do twice. I run the Koni Cup Kit on my MQB TT, same platform, and have had great results. Also it is worth noting that you will gain negative camber with lowering springs. So keep that in mind when you put non-adjustable camber plates on. Also a rear sway bar and end links really wake these cars up. Introduces some nice rotation, especially with trail braking.
Only Downside to Forged Wheels is they crack under stress instead of bending like a cast wheel. On a track with no potholes a forged wheel is right at home, but in the real world, you hit a pot hole and crack a rim, its a very expensive repair. Just something to consider for your Daily.
I thought you said you were going to adjust camber and castor? I was expecting upgraded LCA's as well. I have a MK7 Golf R with those same camber plates, and whiteline LCA's, and I highly recommend doing both. Not only do the LCA's (with the camber plates) virtually eliminate understeer, the added caster significantly improves steering feel. I am getting around 2.5 degrees of static camber and have experimented with toe adjustments. A bit of toe out front and rear is great for getting the car to rotate however, if you do a lot of street/highway miles it really eats the inside edge of the tires. The problem with that (besides premature tire wear) it is hard to tell it is happening because all the treads look fine, until you start seeing cord on that inner edge, and if you are checking on a regular basis you might think your tires are good when they aren't. For a car that spends most of its time on track I would do a 1/8 toe out front and back, but for a car that spends a lot of time on the street you want a slight amount of toe in (1/16 or less). If you do that even with -2.5 degrees camber the tire wear is no problem, and it still vastly improves handling.
We did adjust camber and caster with those plates-details are in the video. And yes, we’ve been playing with toe settings too; look for a future video about that.
@@Grassrootsmotorsports I know the plates supposedly help a bit with caster to some degree, I have the same plates. What I am saying is adding the LCA's with the camber/caster plates is definitely worth doing as well.
Great video, thanks for putting this together. I have similar goals for my car: Fun DD, some track. My mk7.5 GTI has DCC with 52k miles so I'm thinking of swaping dampers. Do you have any experience with the Bilstein B6 Damptronic or B16? I'm trying to maintain DCC and get a slight upgrade. Thanks
So you found that you didn't have to use any adjustable components like sway bar links, toe arms or upper control arms (rear)? I'm about to put lowering springs on my GTi (not aggressively low, only about an inch - the Eibach Pro kit springs) and I'm not sure If I need to use adjustable components to compensate for things like the slight camber change or if I can stick with the original components. I have a mk6 Gti, btw. not mk7
Great use of the mtb!!! I always use mine as the prop to explain caster to folks. Also, yeah, stock dampers are really fine on the sport springs, I had about 20K on mine when I did H&R springs and they worked just fine...maybe a bit under-damped but nothing egregious what would cause handling issues. I have since gone to Bilstein B8s which do give a bit more movement control. I too avoided coilovers with my MK7 wagon and have had great luck with springs/dampers/sway bars and I went with LCAs (Superpor) that gave more neg camber/pos caster vs. top hats like you guys used. I didn't catch what size those Conti ECS 02s were? Good video!
Were those 034 springs and if so did you encounter any of the binding or noises when the coils contact each other. Many people have reported this with these springs. Thanks
Great info and thank for this project, I will be following. I have raced, auto-x and street driven fwd cars for years including a lot of VWs. Did you consider putting on a larger diameter rear anti-roll bar?
I have some. You hear all the noise from the struts because they are solid instead of the foam insulated OEM mounts, but that's it. It'll sound like a minor rattle going over imperfections at low speeds when there isn't much other road/engine noise.
Update on this. The noise might be from the tolerance between the strut mount and the bearing being slightly off with the 034 mount. Not sure if using a different bearing would solve the problem.
Using the bike to explain the relationship between caster and camber was simple and brilliant.
That's the best explanation of camber & caster that I've come across. Great vid.
Glad you liked it!
Love the mk7 track content keep it coming 🙏
Thanks and we have more to come!
Very informative video for people wanting to improve handling on a MQB platform without spending too much money.
I'm curious thought, why choose to increase camber and caster with top strut mounts rather than lower control arms? You can get aluminium arms that also increase camber and caster with stiffer bushings as a bonus.
Personally I would have done Koni Yellows. Install can be a pain in the butt on the fronts, something an average DIYer doesn't want to do twice.
I run the Koni Cup Kit on my MQB TT, same platform, and have had great results. Also it is worth noting that you will gain negative camber with lowering springs. So keep that in mind when you put non-adjustable camber plates on.
Also a rear sway bar and end links really wake these cars up. Introduces some nice rotation, especially with trail braking.
Totally agree. I put Bilsteins in my Mk4 and getting them into the knuckle/nearing housing was a nightmare.
Only Downside to Forged Wheels is they crack under stress instead of bending like a cast wheel. On a track with no potholes a forged wheel is right at home, but in the real world, you hit a pot hole and crack a rim, its a very expensive repair. Just something to consider for your Daily.
I thought you said you were going to adjust camber and castor? I was expecting upgraded LCA's as well. I have a MK7 Golf R with those same camber plates, and whiteline LCA's, and I highly recommend doing both. Not only do the LCA's (with the camber plates) virtually eliminate understeer, the added caster significantly improves steering feel. I am getting around 2.5 degrees of static camber and have experimented with toe adjustments. A bit of toe out front and rear is great for getting the car to rotate however, if you do a lot of street/highway miles it really eats the inside edge of the tires.
The problem with that (besides premature tire wear) it is hard to tell it is happening because all the treads look fine, until you start seeing cord on that inner edge, and if you are checking on a regular basis you might think your tires are good when they aren't.
For a car that spends most of its time on track I would do a 1/8 toe out front and back, but for a car that spends a lot of time on the street you want a slight amount of toe in (1/16 or less). If you do that even with -2.5 degrees camber the tire wear is no problem, and it still vastly improves handling.
We did adjust camber and caster with those plates-details are in the video. And yes, we’ve been playing with toe settings too; look for a future video about that.
@@Grassrootsmotorsports I know the plates supposedly help a bit with caster to some degree, I have the same plates. What I am saying is adding the LCA's with the camber/caster plates is definitely worth doing as well.
Great video, thanks for putting this together. I have similar goals for my car: Fun DD, some track. My mk7.5 GTI has DCC with 52k miles so I'm thinking of swaping dampers. Do you have any experience with the Bilstein B6 Damptronic or B16? I'm trying to maintain DCC and get a slight upgrade. Thanks
So you found that you didn't have to use any adjustable components like sway bar links, toe arms or upper control arms (rear)? I'm about to put lowering springs on my GTi (not aggressively low, only about an inch - the Eibach Pro kit springs) and I'm not sure If I need to use adjustable components to compensate for things like the slight camber change or if I can stick with the original components. I have a mk6 Gti, btw. not mk7
So how much caster and camber did the resulting setup have?
Did you dial out any of the stock rear camber, or leave at the OEM spec (roughly -2.0°)?
Great use of the mtb!!! I always use mine as the prop to explain caster to folks. Also, yeah, stock dampers are really fine on the sport springs, I had about 20K on mine when I did H&R springs and they worked just fine...maybe a bit under-damped but nothing egregious what would cause handling issues. I have since gone to Bilstein B8s which do give a bit more movement control. I too avoided coilovers with my MK7 wagon and have had great luck with springs/dampers/sway bars and I went with LCAs (Superpor) that gave more neg camber/pos caster vs. top hats like you guys used. I didn't catch what size those Conti ECS 02s were? Good video!
What size tire is that?
They are 245/40 18.
Were those 034 springs and if so did you encounter any of the binding or noises when the coils contact each other. Many people have reported this with these springs. Thanks
They are the 034 Motorsport springs, we have not noticed any noises or binding with them.
Great info and thank for this project, I will be following. I have raced, auto-x and street driven fwd cars for years including a lot of VWs. Did you consider putting on a larger diameter rear anti-roll bar?
Are those camber plates noisy?
I have some. You hear all the noise from the struts because they are solid instead of the foam insulated OEM mounts, but that's it. It'll sound like a minor rattle going over imperfections at low speeds when there isn't much other road/engine noise.
Update on this. The noise might be from the tolerance between the strut mount and the bearing being slightly off with the 034 mount. Not sure if using a different bearing would solve the problem.