Mpho is so rude and condescending towards Andronica it's shameful. Does she really have to degrade her so ruthlessly?Charles is my favourite. He's so content with his life and his possessions that he cannot see himself as poor or lower class. He's a real sunshine personality.
I think this is how this should be distinguished: Upper MC - Mpho MC - the graphic designer Lower MC - the electrician ULower Class - MLC - Andronica LC. - This is not meant to slight anyone. I think Mpho freaked out because she probably felt that if she was on the same spectrum as Andronica, she wasn't as fancy as she thought.
i really enjoyed this 4 part series amd think your conclusion is very accurate, as everything is relative to the point of reference you have, to your vantage point. i dont think that the absense of stuggle equals middle class, because depending on what you desire, what you struggle to have, if anything, also plays a role in where you land. great documentary!
very interesting documentary..highlighted a few insights that most of us never think of. really liked the fact that it illuminated how we all look at ourselves from different surroundings and compare ourselves from that..but never really know what it means.
I am a South African with a Masters degree living in the USA. Inspire of my education, I have respect and compassion for all God's creatures despite their sociological-economic status. I am really annoyed by mama Mpho's attitude by making this sweet lady feel so small. Since she owns a nursing school, I was hoping she would show her compassion by offering her a full scholarship so she can better her life as well. This is why our community does not grow to an almost equal status because we as a people don't help each other through education, etc... i found her words very mean and insulting about the lady's sanity! Be careful with your words mama Mpho because life is like seasons; your rainy season can come unexpectedly again and you may find yourself at the mercy of this lady someday... I'm saying this respectfully! May God bless you! Hold on my dear sister, God will rescue you from poverty someday. Hang in there!!
You must have gone to a community College with a GED if your first two centences reflect you have a masters, perhaps sanitation or sodexo masters. This old lady is a scientist and performing a reality procedure. Pardon me if I fly over your head. It's the same truth that public leaders were telling us when their loved one died of HIV
This is a great piece of sociological material. I found it intriguing and shows that we have multiply classes. But my gosh ma'am was being hum honest with Andronica not holds bars.
It was very interesting. An eye opener. Thinking about it, i am definitely lower class although i can afford most things. According to my definition, all those people are lower class except Hilder and as much as she was a little bit harsh but she's very bright and realistic. Most people with her status would regard themselves as rich... Thank you for a very interesting Doc/ Research.
You said it all "...what they were in the middle of...was different" ...if they are in the middle..what are they in the middle of?.. a very good question...
Middle class: the social group between the upper and working classes, including professional and business people and their families. I also thought i was middle class since I could "afford" certain things. eye opener indeed
Why would you pit two people that are obviously not regarded in the same class for one to obnoxiously list her materialistic attributes. That was clear from the offset!
This could have been done better. But well.. It is something. Anyway, in the states, middle class is broken in three places. You are middle-low a job, bills, living a modest life (you cook at home, you travel once a year, you go out only special occasions, you buy clothes when you need it, etc). When you are Middle - Middle your salary afford you to take vacation twice a year, you dine and go out once a week (at least), you might buy fashion. When you are Upper Middle class, you might vacation 3 times a year (which might include cruises), you can eat out almost everyday, you get the latest fashion or gadgets, you have special get togethers, you send your children to private school, etc. Once you reach the rich category. You have private tutors for your children. You have a 24/7 nanny/housekeeper. You might work, but you are a high profile figure in your company. You drive fine and luxury cars. You take vacation when ever you feel like it. You can run your business away from home. You sponsor charity events, you eat at the best restaurants, etc.
Mosa Thank you I think the confusion stems from the less elaborated class power in Black South Africa which is caused by Apartheid. So class among black South Africans could depend on how one is closs to the lifestyles of White South Africans.
I am in the middle of the state of Alabama USA and the Atlantic Ocean. Fascinating piece. What are we really in the middle of? Leave your answers below.
so the question still remain. what define class. In your social world where you live in, your class is defined to what you measure yourself to those around you. In SA with our big income gaps with historic racial devide between wealth adds a complex dimension where class regarding wealth is seen along racial line's . But truth being told is that this segment experiment you will find in any racial grouping in SA. Would like to see the same experiment done but with subject groupings from different race groupings with same incomes and what they class themselves and what perceptions there are of each other regarding wealth and class. well done its a good insight and properly done
Middle class can mean different things to different people in different countries. I do agree with the poor lady that the older lady was closer to "rich" then middle class. The refrigerator repair man may make more than the graphic designer, was he middle class? I think the traditional western definition is a combination of education & income; yet the percentage is open to debate. I hope the poor lady considers attending one of the schools of the older lady, she could be a great mentor for her. It was very sad to hear the poor lady's explanation of why she thought she was middle class.
Andronica and Charles are in the middle of the working class, they just failed to understand the fundamental of what the middle class is. It's a lost in translation phenomena cause they definitely could be phakathi, but it's phakathi of the working class not the classes as a whole.
very interesting, i conclude that classes, in this case middle class are highly contextual, in the township Andronica is in the middle as there are far poorer people while Hilda in her world comparing with those she interacts with, she is not considered rich, hence class is based largely on context
Hilda was very condescending towards Andronica by insisting she calls her Mpho rather than Hilda. Just because Andronica doesn't have as much as Hilda, doesn't necessarily dumb her down. It's sad
kay van der sleks She was definitely condescending and rude, though I have to point out that Mpho is her real name. Helda is a middle name given her because in her time, you could not register for school under an African name. You'll notice that in the beginning she introduced herself as Mpho. The choice of name is the only courtesy she gave Andronica.That being said, she should treated her better. It's so disrespectful to talk down to someone that way, especially when they have invited you into their home and even cooked their food (of which is limited) for you.
To be perfectly honest, I was really surprised that Hilda even ate in Andronica's house because I thought she was so condescending that she would probably be disgusted to even be in her house. Hilda might have a lot of money, but she certainly doesn't have respect for other people. How rude of her. I agree with Hilda that her and Andronica are different classes, but she really could have explained herself in a better way instead of being rude.
This lady she touches people's wounds with her hands to heal them and eating food there is no issue for her. Hospitals often lack equipment and have witness some of her colleague sucking a bean with her mouth from a patients nose. You have no clue what would have happened if she did not. She said when she was done she can still wash her mouth from mucus but cannot resuscitate the expired, HELLO!
I don't get why they had to put the lady on the spot like that. If she wants to view herself as middle class that is her business. To her, she is living better than her neighbors.
Show some Humlitiy Mrs. Hilda wow. We must help the less fortunate guys. South Africa is my home, and I'm definitely going to start participating in development projects. It's just so sad. I can't imagine living in such horrible conditions in shacks or informal settlements. NO ONE should live in such conditions.
You are listening from your left ear to your right ear and thus miss emphases. The genre here is science here just saying to help the scholarly challenged.
Typical story of " from rags to riches". Well done Andronica for looking at yourself within your community. And Hilda you know what for someone who reads the bible and goes to church I think you should have at least emulated Jesus quality of empathy. You are so pompous and please remember the higher you go the colder it becomes. You d,isgust me, the way you looked down on her. You are so annoying
wow such ignorance, this hilda or mhpo wat eva she wants to be called is so flippen rude, she cud hve used a bit of empathy. we all see things from a different perspective according to the communities we come from. if u compare a homeless person and that lady she certainly is higher than the hobo.
I use this material in my lectures on class. I use it again to show students how to do good grounded research. Thanks a lot for this fabulous material
Mpho is so rude and condescending towards Andronica it's shameful. Does she really have to degrade her so ruthlessly?Charles is my favourite. He's so content with his life and his possessions that he cannot see himself as poor or lower class. He's a real sunshine personality.
I can't deal with Mme Mpho, she is condenscending
She is indeed condescending. She is also incredibly rude.
Intriguing comparisons in a quest to get a clear cut definition of 'middle class' in this captivating research..
Mara uyadelela logogo man! Siyazi unemali!
I think this is how this should be distinguished:
Upper MC - Mpho
MC - the graphic designer
Lower MC - the electrician
ULower Class -
MLC - Andronica
LC. -
This is not meant to slight anyone.
I think Mpho freaked out because she probably felt that if she was on the same spectrum as Andronica, she wasn't as fancy as she thought.
i really enjoyed this 4 part series amd think your conclusion is very accurate, as everything is relative to the point of reference you have, to your vantage point. i dont think that the absense of stuggle equals middle class, because depending on what you desire, what you struggle to have, if anything, also plays a role in where you land. great documentary!
very interesting documentary..highlighted a few insights that most of us never think of. really liked the fact that it illuminated how we all look at ourselves from different surroundings and compare ourselves from that..but never really know what it means.
I like the elder lady, she is very intelligent.
I am a South African with a Masters degree living in the USA. Inspire of my education, I have respect and compassion for all God's creatures despite their sociological-economic status. I am really annoyed by mama Mpho's attitude by making this sweet lady feel so small. Since she owns a nursing school, I was hoping she would show her compassion by offering her a full scholarship so she can better her life as well. This is why our community does not grow to an almost equal status because we as a people don't help each other through education, etc... i found her words very mean and insulting about the lady's sanity! Be careful with your words mama Mpho because life is like seasons; your rainy season can come unexpectedly again and you may find yourself at the mercy of this lady someday... I'm saying this respectfully! May God bless you! Hold on my dear sister, God will rescue you from poverty someday. Hang in there!!
Eish!
You must have gone to a community College with a GED if your first two centences reflect you have a masters, perhaps sanitation or sodexo masters. This old lady is a scientist and performing a reality procedure. Pardon me if I fly over your head. It's the same truth that public leaders were telling us when their loved one died of HIV
This is a great piece of sociological material. I found it intriguing and shows that we have multiply classes. But my gosh ma'am was being hum honest with Andronica not holds bars.
Thanks it shows here when you read all the comments whose faculties are functional or which ones are on recall.
It was very interesting. An eye opener. Thinking about it, i am definitely lower class although i can afford most things. According to my definition, all those people are lower class except Hilder and as much as she was a little bit harsh but she's very bright and realistic. Most people with her status would regard themselves as rich... Thank you for a very interesting Doc/ Research.
You said it all "...what they were in the middle of...was different" ...if they are in the middle..what are they in the middle of?.. a very good question...
Middle class: the social group between the upper and working classes, including professional and business people and their families.
I also thought i was middle class since I could "afford" certain things. eye opener indeed
GODbless you my hope....
Interesting
Why would you pit two people that are obviously not regarded in the same class for one to obnoxiously list her materialistic attributes. That was clear from the offset!
This could have been done better. But well.. It is something. Anyway, in the states, middle class is broken in three places.
You are middle-low a job, bills, living a modest life (you cook at home, you travel once a year, you go out only special occasions, you buy clothes when you need it, etc).
When you are Middle - Middle your salary afford you to take vacation twice a year, you dine and go out once a week (at least), you might buy fashion.
When you are Upper Middle class, you might vacation 3 times a year (which might include cruises), you can eat out almost everyday, you get the latest fashion or gadgets, you have special get togethers, you send your children to private school, etc.
Once you reach the rich category. You have private tutors for your children. You have a 24/7 nanny/housekeeper. You might work, but you are a high profile figure in your company. You drive fine and luxury cars. You take vacation when ever you feel like it. You can run your business away from home. You sponsor charity events, you eat at the best restaurants, etc.
Mosa Thank you I think the confusion stems from the less elaborated class power in Black South Africa which is caused by Apartheid. So class among black South Africans could depend on how one is closs to the lifestyles of White South Africans.
I am in the middle of the state of Alabama USA and the Atlantic Ocean. Fascinating piece. What are we really in the middle of? Leave your answers below.
Right now we are in the middle of Covid-19.
I think I have learnt a lot from Hilda
This is heartbreaking 💔🥀
so the question still remain. what define class. In your social world where you live in, your class is defined to what you measure yourself to those around you. In SA with our big income gaps with historic racial devide between wealth adds a complex dimension where class regarding wealth is seen along racial line's . But truth being told is that this segment experiment you will find in any racial grouping in SA. Would like to see the same experiment done but with subject groupings from different race groupings with same incomes and what they class themselves and what perceptions there are of each other regarding wealth and class. well done its a good insight and properly done
The lady in the Red is upper middle class. She's similar to my Aunt. Owns property (and rents) and still works a regular job.
Middle class can mean different things to different people in different countries. I do agree with the poor lady that the older lady was closer to "rich" then middle class. The refrigerator repair man may make more than the graphic designer, was he middle class? I think the traditional western definition is a combination of education & income; yet the percentage is open to debate. I hope the poor lady considers attending one of the schools of the older lady, she could be a great mentor for her. It was very sad to hear the poor lady's explanation of why she thought she was middle class.
Andronica and Charles are in the middle of the working class, they just failed to understand the fundamental of what the middle class is. It's a lost in translation phenomena cause they definitely could be phakathi, but it's phakathi of the working class not the classes as a whole.
The lady in red is flexing on her like bitch you ain't living like me😂😂
very interesting, i conclude that classes, in this case middle class are highly contextual, in the township Andronica is in the middle as there are far poorer people while Hilda in her world comparing with those she interacts with, she is not considered rich, hence class is based largely on context
Despite the old lady being rich she is so full of herself
uyadelela straight, new money.
Hilda was very condescending towards Andronica by insisting she calls her Mpho rather than Hilda. Just because Andronica doesn't have as much as Hilda, doesn't necessarily dumb her down. It's sad
kay van der sleks She was definitely condescending and rude, though I have to point out that Mpho is her real name. Helda is a middle name given her because in her time, you could not register for school under an African name. You'll notice that in the beginning she introduced herself as Mpho. The choice of name is the only courtesy she gave Andronica.That being said, she should treated her better. It's so disrespectful to talk down to someone that way, especially when they have invited you into their home and even cooked their food (of which is limited) for you.
the graphic guy is middle class
what was the purposeto mke the poor feel bad? dont get it
Middle class..... It could be worse. Poor it cant get any worse.
Magogo oo wa spita demet... Lol Nkgono Mpho, no maarn
No No No Mpho is so rude. that's not how she should have approached the situation.....
To be perfectly honest, I was really surprised that Hilda even ate in Andronica's house because I thought she was so condescending that she would probably be disgusted to even be in her house. Hilda might have a lot of money, but she certainly doesn't have respect for other people. How rude of her. I agree with Hilda that her and Andronica are different classes, but she really could have explained herself in a better way instead of being rude.
This lady she touches people's wounds with her hands to heal them and eating food there is no issue for her. Hospitals often lack equipment and have witness some of her colleague sucking a bean with her mouth from a patients nose. You have no clue what would have happened if she did not. She said when she was done she can still wash her mouth from mucus but cannot resuscitate the expired, HELLO!
I don't get why they had to put the lady on the spot like that. If she wants to view herself as middle class that is her business. To her, she is living better than her neighbors.
We cannot be afraid to say things the way they are.
Show some Humlitiy Mrs. Hilda wow. We must help the less fortunate guys. South Africa is my home, and I'm definitely going to start participating in development projects. It's just so sad. I can't imagine living in such horrible conditions in shacks or informal settlements. NO ONE should live in such conditions.
You are listening from your left ear to your right ear and thus miss emphases. The genre here is science here just saying to help the scholarly challenged.
Worlds richest person, and worlds highest dept person. Between them 7 billion middle class :P
Banna, I don't like this at all. I think bringing them together was a bad idea.
It was a bad idea, but I am proud of Andronica because even though she was being insulted by that silly old woman she didn't stoop down to her level.
Typical story of " from rags to riches". Well done Andronica for looking at yourself within your community. And Hilda you know what for someone who reads the bible and goes to church I think you should have at least emulated Jesus quality of empathy. You are so pompous and please remember the higher you go the colder it becomes. You d,isgust me, the way you looked down on her. You are so annoying
Agree
Xolie Koncie So true. To treat someone like that when they have invited you into their home and cooked for you? Shame on her.
EDUCATION definetly that's what the poor lady needs .
The fact that she thinks she is middle class , she is definetly not living in reality
Who wants to live in reality? Reality sucks.
wow such ignorance, this hilda or mhpo wat eva she wants to be called is so flippen rude, she cud hve used a bit of empathy. we all see things from a different perspective according to the communities we come from. if u compare a homeless person and that lady she certainly is higher than the hobo.
Iyooo! Lolest! Are you saying she qualifies to be a middle class only in comparison to a hobbo? Win Paulina!