I've been skating for 17/18 years, and after watching a handful of your videos, I feel like I have no real knowledge of skateboards. I always went for a deck that felt good and trucks that fit. Seems like I never really thought about deck steepness, wheels hardness, and wheels base. Very interesting stuff!
Same, I used to think that a certain deck brand felt better than others and never paid attention to how trucks played a huge part in how a setup felt. We cycle through boards a lot faster than trucks and didn't have the time (or money) to experiment with wheelbases, kicks and lengths. I think Corey Duffel (ex Foundation pro) even said on his IG that he only just round to learning the differences in how trucks affect wheelbase; amazing since he's been a pro for a long time.
Kenneth Tham I tend to research a lot of specifications and details of anything that I start to get into and become quite the pedant, which has its disadvantages and advantages. One reason I like Ben’s videos. I’m still learning about wheelbases but I do know that a medium concave in one brand can be different than a medium in another, or even the same deck model can be slightly different than another of the same brand and model depending on how it’s manufactured. I assume you know now but that’s probably why you liked the feel of one brand over the other because even if they were categorized as having the same concave there could still be slight variations. What is it that you are saying about wheelbases affecting trucks?
Same! 23 years skating, and I have no idea what kind of board I prefer. I do know that I want a symmetrical deck, I want to be able to skate it both ways and not have dedicated front or back trucks. Planning to buy an Ishod twin tail deck as soon as I can find one!
Bro is his own heckler. Big love, Ben. Your channel has been an invaluable source of information and inspiration. Skate safely and skate long, my brother.
I skate steep kick decks with 14 inch wheelbases and Indy standards. When you first get on and try to warm up it feels impossible to pop but when you get the feel for it it's almost as you barely pop and the deck just springs you up into the air. Its really good and feels rewarding to skate a steep kick decked
Damn that’s so true, and I’ve never really realized it. I skate the same and it does take me a solid like 20 25 mins to warm up. Sometimes the first few pops are ghostly but my front foot seems to still catch the steep nose.
No way man. It sounds tantalizing but BD has decades of skating experience and is an honest independent third-party pundit who is astute about skate design and opinionated on personal preferences, but brings you in to the fold in a mostly product agnostic way-for you to become more clueful about what you’re skating on, what your preferences are, and ultimately how to make better decisions when you’re deciding what to skate. Most skate companies would hire and hide people like Ben in the back room while branding and marketing directors glad hand and plan their next thing.
I figured the steep kick would take some practice getting in to but I just got completely spent after a 1.5 hour flat session in the garage.. haven't been on a board for nearly 20 years. Feels good man!
Thanks for helping inspire the oldos like me (35) to get back on their boards! You really rip, tons of progress since your early vids. What I really appreciate about your channel is how you examine the intricate details of skating, tweaking setups and breaking down how small variations to setup can affect your skating (that and your occasionally über-Canadianism). It's all super helpful. Shame UA-cam didn't exist when we were kids!
Man just found out of your channel a month ago personally think it’s awesome, Im a 40 year old skater and have a 10 year old skater kid so your videos are so relatable I love it , keep the videos coming, good job dude! Saludos! From Tijuana Mexico!
I used to love a steep deck between 8-8.25 but about four years ago. I tore the plantar fascia in my left foot and just as that healed, I tore the one in my right foot to the point of almost needing surgery. Once that one heeled, I couldn't ride a small, steep board anymore. I went to a Antihero 8.75 #3, with Indy 159's and 56mm. But at 42 and 20yre if drywall, I just happy to be able to skate again/still.
It's because UA-cam Algo prefers crappy Braille videos or scooter kids vs skater guy videos over concise informative great knowledge holding videos like Ben Draggos !!!!
Congrats on 2 years!, Not only do I enjoy your skating and your in-depth reviews/info, you are straight up one of my favorite humans and I very much appreciate what you do. Keep up the good work, my man. Thank you for all the good content. Hope all is well!
8.25 steep deck with medium or high concave, big nose, 14.25wb, indy 144 forge with riser, spitfire f4 anything above 50mm but lower than 55mm. That’s my sweet spot.
steep kicks are the kinda boards i can ride now, with the 8.6 wide deck 159 highs and 54mm wheels it just feels easier to make the heavy ass board actually do what it needs to do
Your set up is very similar but I seem to have a hard time finding steep decks that are wider than 8.5. I typically ride a 8.75 but so many of those boards are mellow and popping my ollies suffer. While getting into blunts, nose blunts, manuals, tail and nose slides etc are easier to pull off. But ollies seem so flat and half the time I’m scrape popping into a trick or to simply just Ollie up. Good stuff though.
Steep concave boards are good for everything especially a thin board with a deep concave which is hard to find these days. A-TEAM boards were great for this!
I noticed with skating boards with wheelbases longer than 14.25" requires more effort for body rotation maneuvers and given that your body is laterally at a wider stance. In an ideal world, I wish to have equal pocket space and geometry for both the nose and tail. That's just my OCD. However I noticed that scoop based tricks (eg. shuvs) are easy to pop with a tapered tail. I personally like a steep nose with a fat pocket, as I feel more secure. Some regular tricks I feel more comfortable popping off the nose than the tail. When skating transition and bowls, I usually skate with the tail pointing the front. 14" & 14.125" WB's are definitely up my alley.
I just got a Santa Cruz Everslick, I love the resposivness when pivoting but am finding that I have been getting ghost pop. I'm hoping I'll adapt to it. Great video.
Great vid as usual Ben! Regards from Sweden :) In board setup I guess i’m still living in the early 2000 bc i’m still riding darkstar 7.75, Tensor Lows (maglights), 50mm bones wheels. Adds are bones yellow bushings and bronson raw bearings.
Now that's a setup, still skating a 7.5 like I did in 98, the 15 year layoff didn't help. Lmfao riding tensor alloys I think. New deck was an enjoi complete.
I just got a steep concave Almost board. I used to love steep boards back in the day but havent ridden them in years. I skated this one once so far, I really like it! the pop is throwing me off a bit right now but it'll be fun once i get used to it.
Steep, wide decks with lower trucks and smaller wheels. I find 50mm wheels on a steep 10" wide deck is perfect for me. I was using 1/2" risers for a while and 60mm wheels but dropped all of that and now I have so much more control. So good!
I like both steep and mellow for different things. I like steep better for control on flip tricks especially kickflips because the angle of the nose helps my foot remain planted on the board after flicking off the board. Mellows definitely better for manuals in terms of balance point and my feet also tend not to hurt as much afterwards compared to steep kicks since my foot isnt being arched or "curved" in a weird manner. Nice review Ben
Easy answer. They allow you to pop your board into a steeper angle, and as result higher ollies. If you can pop your back trucks 2-3 inches off the ground, try to get your board into the steepest angle possible. You should be able to do at least a 2ft ollie that way. It's how steep your board is that matters most(for height), basically, how high the front of your board is off the ground...been popping ollies for 40+ years.
great video Ben (as usual mate), it's funny watching you discuss this topic, as I started skating in 1988 and by 1989, steep kick tail boards were all the rage, as many skaters were keen to emulate the likes of Natas, Hensley, Gonz etc and were obsessed with 'pop' in order to land higher and bigger allies. I even specifically bought an H-Street Tony Magnusson mini board in '89 as it boasted one of the steepest tails, just for that purpose. That said, it's probably no coincidence that several of the free-style influenced tricks that are now part of mainstream street skating, were perfected by 1980's freestylers like Mullen and Wellender on boards that had next to no kick.
That's around when I started too. What made me "discover" steeper concave and I think steeper kicks was when a friend got a Toxic Skates deck. At the time, they seemed to have way more concave than the more popular companies. And suddenly he was like lightyears ahead of the rest of us. I mean, we were still just practicing sloppy kickflips, disatsers, method airs, standard stuff. And suddenly he was doing impossibles. Like, huge impossibles on flatground. In like 1988.
Great observations. I prefer something a little less steep, but I recently had a very steep Enjoi deck with full concave and noticed it was good for certain things. My feet would stay in the pockets better for airs and spins, it would stick SO good. But it definitely took a good week to get used to, particularly with my flip tricks. Initially felt I had to put in more effort, but once I adjusted my flick, it seemed like it took less effort (for kick flips, at least). 5-0 and K grinds felt less stable for me because i had to lift one leg more than I was used to. As for pop, the enjoi deck was R7 construction which definitely extended the pop, life and strength, but I haven't had another R7 to compare it, or another equally as steep standard wood glue deck. In the end, I think comes down to feel/comfort preference. There is a sweet spot between too steep and not steep enough for me. I think because of the way I personally flick my tricks, something a little on the mellow side works better for me.
I had this super steep Zero deck a few months ago. Insane pop but I had no control. I had Indy's on it at first and my kickflips were super high and buttery but everything else I had no idea what it was going to do. It felt like that board was killing me, so much effort and I was like you said so tired. I switched it to thunders and rode it for another 4 weeks with no problems. Not nearly as much pop but I was back in control. If I could do handrails I bet the Zero with Indy's would be perfect.
I tried indys on this deck for one session. It was so difficult I was bummed I didnt bring my thunders with. I didn't even want to go a while session on it.
@@bendegros I went 3 sessions on the Indy's and it was too much for me. After each session I felt like I was in a fight. I would have given up on it if not for the Thunders.
I was wondering why my pop and tricks felt so bad. Basically I have such a deck and everything you described I felt during my sessions. I will switch to medium again. Im so glad that there is actually a reason why everything felt so bad.
Great video. I'm running a 7.75 blind with indys and 55mm spitfire classics. The board is quite small but with a mellow concave. It pops very well but I've always wanted to try a size bigger board with aggressive concave. I'll keep your advice in mind. Congrats on 2 years ben, keep up the good work 🙌👍
I've been on steep decks for as long as I can remember, and for pretty much the last twenty years solid I've been on real or anti hero wood, the odd baker here and there, and the Aussie stuff like passport every now and again.
I can not skate steep board such as Santa Cruz and creature. Ben , your interpretations are clear and all round. I just stick to mellow and mediate kick boards, such as real and chocolate/girl. Kick is more impact than concave. Because you apply kick for doing tricks using the kick angle. Mellow and mid kick with decent buffering or transitions length provide you with maneuver needed for pop and controllably lifting up board.
I had two free ones gifted to me and they were absolute garbage. I would not recommend them. There’s plenty stuff out there that’s half the price and more than twice as good. By the way, both decks were the same size and model but neither was the exact same mold. They had the same cut as a shape but their actual shape in concavity and kicks didn’t even match up. The wheel bases didn’t match either and they came warped. I hope that makes sense.
Here I am just rooting through old channel videos. Damn Ben I gotta say I’m missing the comic relief from these old videos, they are truly hilarious haha. Love to see some of that in the new ones. As always love the content. Cheers
A big thanks for your vid Ben, here in Indonesia (where i'm come from), there's no any video that have a lot information like you did. I'm not a skater, but my son start to learn skateboarding and this vid so helpful. Thank you so much Ben.
Hah, I totally lost my flips and struggled with backside 180's when I recently switched to a mellower deck. Ghostflicking all over the place for heels and kickflips, literally missing the board. Starting to figure it out now.. but my next deck will have to be a steep one
Im on the opposite side. I need a mellower deck. What would u recommend? If you want steep decks. Go with a baker. Which i have now. And its too dam steep imo. Im in my mid 30s. I dont have the strength to pop the board with tht much force. Ive been doing leg exercises just to build up strength for skating. Its sad. I know how to do all my tricks but my body wont let me do it.
@@82PeRK Oh I see! I just got an Antiz board and it's steep and feels great. Will keep baker in mind though. My previous one was the flatest deck I ever skated. It was a SWEET deck and it's a swedish brand, not sure if they have retailers elsewhere... but look up sweet skateboards!
82PeRK I had a baker board and i could do my flip tricks every try then it got ran over and I got another baker board and I couldn’t do flip tricks on it for shit
I’m currently riding a Nakel FA board with some indie 149s and it’s my first time trying out an 8.38 board and I FREAKIN LOVE IT! I used to ride like an 8.1- something but when I would try to get a good pop or land tricks of stairs I would always land over the the nose of my board or feel like has no type of control. Now with the 8.38 and the tail being pretty steep, I’ve been landing so much more consistently and getting the most out of my pop!
Haven't tried the tablets, but Spitfire's radial slim wheels are pretty rad too. I took em off because otherwise pebbles were gonna kill me. But if you mostly skate parks they feel really good, and power slide with about half the effort of classics.
I just got a steep deck with 15" wheelbase, I still ghost pop but when I don't the thing takes off. You are spot on with foot placement on the tail, I have two toes hanging off and pop from the ball then the ghosts are gone and I get good height. I ride Indies so that's part of the equation too. What you didn't mention was front foot catches are way easier but Ollie North's are harder. Good vid though, very informative!
on the backside tricks being easier on a popped deck- I feel like its more to do with the nose than the tail. it could just be one factor with the steepness of the tail contributing to the overall ease of doing a bs trick, but I think the steepness of the nose and its ability to catch your front is easier. most bs tricks, especially just basic ollie tricks into banks or off drops, relies on front foot control more so than back foot pop. you can pretty much wholly control a bs 180 with your front foot even if you just pop your tail straight down. especially, with a trick like a back tail, where you must pop, use your front foot to bring the board up off the ground (combined with the pop), while simultaneously turning, dipping the nose to level the board so the tailslide remains in flat contact with the ledge. even in popping out, the front foot catching the board in a power ollie type motion off the ledge, relies heavily on the front foot. rant over, sorry if this sound dumb af open to discussion over this
This was good. I need to go back and give the FA another try. I put 52mm on it and some lower thunders but haven't skated it again since i changed it up. It is the complete opposite of the Flight Deck. Ghost pop was killing me on the nollies. What i did like about the FA was 180s and halfcabs. My foot really stuck to the board well. We appricate you Sir. Keep doing your one of a kind videos.
This video made me realize why I have to skate smaller wheels on steep concave decks. I've been riding a Black Label deck, with really steep kicks the last few months with 52-53mm wheels (which I hate) to get the pop and feel I want. So I'm gonna try a flatter deck with my normal 57mm size since that'll probably even things out for me. Thanks Ben 😁
I’ve been riding a chocolate skateboard with mellow kicks and thunder hollows. The mellow kicks felt kinda weird since my previous board had steepkicks but not too bad because my chocolate skateboard has mellow concave like my previous. I got used it and popped more in to the tail like you said .
Which deck of chocolate would u recommend? Im looking for a more mellow tail and nose. I have a baker and its just too dam steep. I will only ride a 7.875 though
Yes agreed with ur opinion, I skate a brand deck that it very steep. I alway used all my energy to pop in a right time if I pop the wrong time it like u mention (Ghost pop). I have to spent like 1-2months to get consistant on board.
I totally agree with you on the manual thing. Steep decks are harder to hold a manual. The deck I skated last summer was pretty mellow and flat compared to the board I'm riding now, and that board felt easier to manual
It would be cool if you could try the ricta rapido wheels. Because I have them and I really like them, it would be cool to see what you think of them. I have the slim 54mm ones.
Dang I have no idea if I have a steep kick board or not. Some shops that carry it say it is, but they also say the concave is "medium" instead of the "mellow" that the manufacturer site says it is. The manufacturer's site doesn't characterize the kick/nose angles and I have nothing to compare it to. I have had some issues with "ghost pop" but I think that is mostly because I am relearning how to skate. I do wonder if it really matters or is more work if you aren't already used to a mellower kick. Ah well. I should just indulge myself and get a 2nd setup soon and see what works better for me.
I dont think I’ve ever ridden a steep kick deck. It might soon try since i mostly ride street. At the moment , Im loving my AntiHero 8.38 deck with stage 11 hollow indys and 55mm OJ III’s. Feels like im surfing on concrete
Just bought a steep kick board not really knowing what it was. My 50-50s improved tenfold, my feet are more locked in on fs 180s however my kickflips seemed to have suffered quite a bit. I thought it was new griptape catching my foot on the board then realized I needed to lean back a bit further and flick my foot off the front of the board instead of behind the bolts like I learned how to do kickflips on.
Steep kicks need a more gentle flick to flip it seems, the steeper nose makes it so you can gently slide your foot off the corner to flip instead of putting force into the "flick". Hope this makes sense
its ok, every video is a celebration video to me, and that is because of you i became fully aware of the IMPORTANCE to take in consideration every combination of every board and part i will use for my set up in order to get the best experience i can out of it, and for me squeezing the best i can out of my session has become absolutelly necesary since i am only getting older and time is pretty much not forgiving any decision i make about how i want to enjoy this pair of legs i just taught to skateboard.
8 to8.25 alien boards, 14 inch wheel base, venture lows, and 51mm spitfire f4s . Tried numerous times to ride indy but just too high. Kinda liked thunders with the forged baseplates, but always feel better on venture lows
IT seems with steep decks IT is possible to skate more wild cause there is more space. With the right Pop tricks become higher. I feel more the edges and form of the deck and yes i need more energy. After riding 7 or 8 Mellow chocolate decks. So much love and fun. I decided to ride a steeper deck cause i found one with the wheelbase i know. 360 flips, fs 5-0s, nollies, bs nollies, (sw) kickflips, (sw)fs shovits become nicer. Like more powerful. It is good to be flexible and enjoy details.
Steep decks should go well with Ace and Destructo trucks because they are reducing the wheelbase (compared to Indipendent) and have softer pop to compensate for steep kicks. Thunder trucks would definitely increase the wheelbase and require a lot more force to pop them properly but they will pop the board faster and higher.
Hey Ben, really enjoying your videos they've been very helpful. I've been attempting to press a few decks of late and just wondered if there's any specific measurements for Low, medium and steep kick? eg. Low = 20°- 23°??? Med = 23°- 26°??? Steep = 26°- 29°??? Up till now I've just been wing'n it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I'm thinking that (all else being equal) tail steepness controls the pop angle, and wheelbase controls the pop timing. My first board had a 14" wheelbase, and it was too fast for me. Second one had a 14.5" wheelbase and it was too slow and heavy. Finally got a 14.25" wheelbase and it's great. The board just sticks to my feet now and my ollies are 100% more consistent. I never knew wheelbase was so important.
Just come off a Death 9” pool shape with a symmetrical 7” nose and tail with Indy 149s and 56mm wheels, felt like kicking open a door to snap an ollie.
You seem to have a really good understanding of what you like and dislike about everything skate. To me this is the goal we should all have. To really be able and dive into our tech and find what works for us I also wonder though if it really makes that much of a difference in trying to optimize the setup. Like if all you skate were mellow kicks then no problem right?!
i like steep decks but i have a couple big problems with them. mainly, my switch tre flip backside noseblunts to gazelle flips out are just way too huge. like, i still land them 95% of the time, but i seriously just get way too high. also, my ollies are just too big - like no joke, my head skimmed a 747 flying at 35,000 feet when i was going down el torro. other than that, they aren't too bad.
I went from a powell ripper that was super mellow and didnt have too steep of kicks which i took a liking to. Im trying to get used to a revive but the tail is so much longer and taller than the powell. Its frustrating but im trying to get used to it
I picked up Deedz new Enjoi pro model (8.375 Football) and it’s interesting, because the nose/tail dims are on par with an 8.125/8.25 with a 14.2WB. It boosts but definitely takes getting used to... feels nothing like my 8.375 Habitat (PS Stix), which I‘m disliking after putting it back in rotation. Riding the Avocado with 144 Titanium’s 🤙🏽
they good for me, i guess medium to steep is my zone. but sometimes kick tail can be kinda steep and still feel mellow to me depending on the fingers of flat before it starts to go up, the over all length of the tail and the trucks... i don't like that. i got two pretty new boards right now that I'm riding, a krooked Manderson emperor, 8.38x35, 14.2wb, tactics has the tail at 6.625 but i measure 6.75 without following the curve of the tail, and 7in nose. its a very full shape, squarish nose/tail. its on thunder 149s and 53 spits. the other is a Real Davis wild feathers full SE, 8.25x32, 14.25wb, 6.625tail, 7nose. full shape, blunt nose and some tapper in the tail. its on 148 thunders and 52mm spits. i would consider them both to have medium kicks with the krooked slightly stepper. the tail on the krooked is .25in longer than the real and that .25 goes into the amount of flat after the back bolts before the tail goes up, so that board has a more mellow feeling tail to me. i love the way the Real feels. i have some old indy stage 10 149s to put on the Krooked and see how that feels, and some 5 yr old venture v light highs to try. the real setup is just too perfect right now.
I've been skating for 17/18 years, and after watching a handful of your videos, I feel like I have no real knowledge of skateboards. I always went for a deck that felt good and trucks that fit. Seems like I never really thought about deck steepness, wheels hardness, and wheels base. Very interesting stuff!
Same, I used to think that a certain deck brand felt better than others and never paid attention to how trucks played a huge part in how a setup felt. We cycle through boards a lot faster than trucks and didn't have the time (or money) to experiment with wheelbases, kicks and lengths. I think Corey Duffel (ex Foundation pro) even said on his IG that he only just round to learning the differences in how trucks affect wheelbase; amazing since he's been a pro for a long time.
Kenneth Tham I tend to research a lot of specifications and details of anything that I start to get into and become quite the pedant, which has its disadvantages and advantages. One reason I like Ben’s videos. I’m still learning about wheelbases but I do know that a medium concave in one brand can be different than a medium in another, or even the same deck model can be slightly different than another of the same brand and model depending on how it’s manufactured. I assume you know now but that’s probably why you liked the feel of one brand over the other because even if they were categorized as having the same concave there could still be slight variations. What is it that you are saying about wheelbases affecting trucks?
Same! 23 years skating, and I have no idea what kind of board I prefer. I do know that I want a symmetrical deck, I want to be able to skate it both ways and not have dedicated front or back trucks. Planning to buy an Ishod twin tail deck as soon as I can find one!
You're what we call a casual : )
1:16
Oscar nominee right there 🗣👏👏
Giving best actor to Joaquin Phoenix? SMH
Ben Degros got snubbed
your kid keep adding vids to your playlist
There's a sick backside trick at the end of this video. Right about at 8:33
It was a backside air
how could you do this to me
>
@@funkydankspliff lol
Bro is his own heckler.
Big love, Ben. Your channel has been an invaluable source of information and inspiration. Skate safely and skate long, my brother.
You break things down in a way that nobody else does.
Awesome man
I skate steep kick decks with 14 inch wheelbases and Indy standards. When you first get on and try to warm up it feels impossible to pop but when you get the feel for it it's almost as you barely pop and the deck just springs you up into the air. Its really good and feels rewarding to skate a steep kick decked
Damn that’s so true, and I’ve never really realized it. I skate the same and it does take me a solid like 20 25 mins to warm up. Sometimes the first few pops are ghostly but my front foot seems to still catch the steep nose.
Cool video Ben. Some skate company should hire you to help design decks and stuff like that, i think you would be great at it.
That'd be sick. I'd definitely support.
maybe he could design his own company, considering his skill with tools 🤔
No way man. It sounds tantalizing but BD has decades of skating experience and is an honest independent third-party pundit who is astute about skate design and opinionated on personal preferences, but brings you in to the fold in a mostly product agnostic way-for you to become more clueful about what you’re skating on, what your preferences are, and ultimately how to make better decisions when you’re deciding what to skate.
Most skate companies would hire and hide people like Ben in the back room while branding and marketing directors glad hand and plan their next thing.
Thanks, you and another UA-cam got me skateboarding again and I'm 31. Keep up the good work.
Nice, I'm 30 and just started again last summer.
Jesse only Same. My daughter got into skating a little while ago and asked to go to the skatepark and teach her. So now I’m buying a board lol
I figured the steep kick would take some practice getting in to but I just got completely spent after a 1.5 hour flat session in the garage.. haven't been on a board for nearly 20 years. Feels good man!
Hey there, a fellow old skater here. Who was the other UA-camr? Cheers!
Im 29 just started again after 4 years .lets keep it up
I've started watching all your videos over again.
I love steep decks for the pop. And they somewhat seem to not get razored down as quick
Thanks for helping inspire the oldos like me (35) to get back on their boards! You really rip, tons of progress since your early vids. What I really appreciate about your channel is how you examine the intricate details of skating, tweaking setups and breaking down how small variations to setup can affect your skating (that and your occasionally über-Canadianism). It's all super helpful. Shame UA-cam didn't exist when we were kids!
Man just found out of your channel a month ago personally think it’s awesome, Im a 40 year old skater and have a 10 year old skater kid so your videos are so relatable I love it , keep the videos coming, good job dude! Saludos! From Tijuana Mexico!
I used to love a steep deck between 8-8.25 but about four years ago. I tore the plantar fascia in my left foot and just as that healed, I tore the one in my right foot to the point of almost needing surgery. Once that one heeled, I couldn't ride a small, steep board anymore. I went to a Antihero 8.75 #3, with Indy 159's and 56mm. But at 42 and 20yre if drywall, I just happy to be able to skate again/still.
I'm surprised you're only at 20k subs. Seriously informative and quality videos, man. Love it!
It's because UA-cam Algo prefers crappy Braille videos or scooter kids vs skater guy videos over concise informative great knowledge holding videos like Ben Draggos !!!!
Happy two years Ben!
Thanks Ben. From one mature skater to another(41). You explain things so much clearer than other youtubers.
They're sick in my opinion for quicker snappier poppier skateboarding
Not the quicker part, but i do agree with the others kinda..
Congrats on 2 years!, Not only do I enjoy your skating and your in-depth reviews/info, you are straight up one of my favorite humans and I very much appreciate what you do. Keep up the good work, my man. Thank you for all the good content. Hope all is well!
Bought a deck with way steeper kicks and it was kicking my ass. But this video helped me a LOT! Thank you Ben!
8.25 steep deck with medium or high concave, big nose, 14.25wb, indy 144 forge with riser, spitfire f4 anything above 50mm but lower than 55mm. That’s my sweet spot.
londys agreed
what brand deck?
@@cbasbwoyETP Hotel blue (depends on graphic) , Numbers edition, Quasi
steep kicks are the kinda boards i can ride now, with the 8.6 wide deck 159 highs and 54mm wheels it just feels easier to make the heavy ass board actually do what it needs to do
Your set up is very similar but I seem to have a hard time finding steep decks that are wider than 8.5. I typically ride a 8.75 but so many of those boards are mellow and popping my ollies suffer. While getting into blunts, nose blunts, manuals, tail and nose slides etc are easier to pull off. But ollies seem so flat and half the time I’m scrape popping into a trick or to simply just Ollie up. Good stuff though.
@@scottlandb6579You should try Hockey skateboards, they're really steep.
Steep concave boards are good for everything especially a thin board with a deep concave which is hard to find these days. A-TEAM boards were great for this!
On god i was lucky to find one of the two baker boards at a skateshop in the next city being not just 8.0 but also steep concave
You make content that no one else makes it’s awesome keep doing it please
I noticed with skating boards with wheelbases longer than 14.25" requires more effort for body rotation maneuvers and given that your body is laterally at a wider stance. In an ideal world, I wish to have equal pocket space and geometry for both the nose and tail. That's just my OCD. However I noticed that scoop based tricks (eg. shuvs) are easy to pop with a tapered tail. I personally like a steep nose with a fat pocket, as I feel more secure. Some regular tricks I feel more comfortable popping off the nose than the tail. When skating transition and bowls, I usually skate with the tail pointing the front. 14" & 14.125" WB's are definitely up my alley.
I just got a Santa Cruz Everslick, I love the resposivness when pivoting but am finding that I have been getting ghost pop. I'm hoping I'll adapt to it. Great video.
Freekin Expert analysis ! Thx for coming out with all the great advice. First time hearing the differences about flat or steep
Great vid as usual Ben! Regards from Sweden :)
In board setup I guess i’m still living in the early 2000 bc i’m still riding darkstar 7.75, Tensor Lows (maglights), 50mm bones wheels. Adds are bones yellow bushings and bronson raw bearings.
What are the low maglights like? They look good, and come in some sick colors, but they're a little pricey to take a shot in the dark on em.
Now that's a setup, still skating a 7.5 like I did in 98, the 15 year layoff didn't help. Lmfao riding tensor alloys I think. New deck was an enjoi complete.
I just got a steep concave Almost board. I used to love steep boards back in the day but havent ridden them in years. I skated this one once so far, I really like it! the pop is throwing me off a bit right now but it'll be fun once i get used to it.
You have just accurately articulated my experience of riding my deck which has a steep tail. 🤟
Steep, wide decks with lower trucks and smaller wheels. I find 50mm wheels on a steep 10" wide deck is perfect for me. I was using 1/2" risers for a while and 60mm wheels but dropped all of that and now I have so much more control. So good!
I like both steep and mellow for different things. I like steep better for control on flip tricks especially kickflips because the angle of the nose helps my foot remain planted on the board after flicking off the board. Mellows definitely better for manuals in terms of balance point and my feet also tend not to hurt as much afterwards compared to steep kicks since my foot isnt being arched or "curved" in a weird manner. Nice review Ben
Easy answer. They allow you to pop your board into a steeper angle, and as result higher ollies. If you can pop your back trucks 2-3 inches off the ground, try to get your board into the steepest angle possible. You should be able to do at least a 2ft ollie that way. It's how steep your board is that matters most(for height), basically, how high the front of your board is off the ground...been popping ollies for 40+ years.
great video Ben (as usual mate), it's funny watching you discuss this topic, as I started skating in 1988 and by 1989, steep kick tail boards were all the rage, as many skaters were keen to emulate the likes of Natas, Hensley, Gonz etc and were obsessed with 'pop' in order to land higher and bigger allies. I even specifically bought an H-Street Tony Magnusson mini board in '89 as it boasted one of the steepest tails, just for that purpose. That said, it's probably no coincidence that several of the free-style influenced tricks that are now part of mainstream street skating, were perfected by 1980's freestylers like Mullen and Wellender on boards that had next to no kick.
That's around when I started too. What made me "discover" steeper concave and I think steeper kicks was when a friend got a Toxic Skates deck. At the time, they seemed to have way more concave than the more popular companies. And suddenly he was like lightyears ahead of the rest of us. I mean, we were still just practicing sloppy kickflips, disatsers, method airs, standard stuff. And suddenly he was doing impossibles. Like, huge impossibles on flatground. In like 1988.
Congrats on 20k subscribers - well deserved+
Great observations. I prefer something a little less steep, but I recently had a very steep Enjoi deck with full concave and noticed it was good for certain things. My feet would stay in the pockets better for airs and spins, it would stick SO good. But it definitely took a good week to get used to, particularly with my flip tricks. Initially felt I had to put in more effort, but once I adjusted my flick, it seemed like it took less effort (for kick flips, at least). 5-0 and K grinds felt less stable for me because i had to lift one leg more than I was used to. As for pop, the enjoi deck was R7 construction which definitely extended the pop, life and strength, but I haven't had another R7 to compare it, or another equally as steep standard wood glue deck. In the end, I think comes down to feel/comfort preference. There is a sweet spot between too steep and not steep enough for me. I think because of the way I personally flick my tricks, something a little on the mellow side works better for me.
Congratulations on two years. Great channel 👍🏼
I had this super steep Zero deck a few months ago. Insane pop but I had no control. I had Indy's on it at first and my kickflips were super high and buttery but everything else I had no idea what it was going to do. It felt like that board was killing me, so much effort and I was like you said so tired. I switched it to thunders and rode it for another 4 weeks with no problems. Not nearly as much pop but I was back in control. If I could do handrails I bet the Zero with Indy's would be perfect.
I tried indys on this deck for one session. It was so difficult I was bummed I didnt bring my thunders with. I didn't even want to go a while session on it.
@@bendegros I went 3 sessions on the Indy's and it was too much for me. After each session I felt like I was in a fight. I would have given up on it if not for the Thunders.
I had a steep zero too! Hated it!
Love ur videos bro. U helped me get back into skating after ten years man. Keep it up
I was wondering why my pop and tricks felt so bad. Basically I have such a deck and everything you described I felt during my sessions. I will switch to medium again.
Im so glad that there is actually a reason why everything felt so bad.
I might need to add that my skill level is more of a beginner.
Great video. I'm running a 7.75 blind with indys and 55mm spitfire classics. The board is quite small but with a mellow concave. It pops very well but I've always wanted to try a size bigger board with aggressive concave. I'll keep your advice in mind. Congrats on 2 years ben, keep up the good work 🙌👍
7.75 ? You go up yet homie ? This 3 years old
Ben youre the best dude, love your knowledge and passion for helping others skate. PS Canada looks soooo sick
I've been on steep decks for as long as I can remember, and for pretty much the last twenty years solid I've been on real or anti hero wood, the odd baker here and there, and the Aussie stuff like passport every now and again.
that tre flip on the launch was beautiful.
I can not skate steep board such as Santa Cruz and creature. Ben , your interpretations are clear and all round. I just stick to mellow and mediate kick boards, such as real and chocolate/girl. Kick is more impact than concave. Because you apply kick for doing tricks using the kick angle. Mellow and mid kick with decent buffering or transitions length provide you with maneuver needed for pop and controllably lifting up board.
Love your channel and the work you are putting out there. Very inspiring for this 36yr old from Texas!!
I didn't even know ghost pop was a thing but I bet this is why my kickflips are a struggle... Thanks!
I love how no one is talking about the fart at the end 😂
I often leave presents at the very end of my videos. It's a reward for making it all the way to the end😉
moonuve kid it wasn’t a fart. Watch it again. It was a backside trick. 😂
Was definitely a backside grind 😜
LMAO I never noticed that
@@bendegros that was incredible
The MOM at 4:57 😂 that was comical.
Ever thought of reviewing a Welcome deck? They’re wild shapes. I’d just love to see what you say about them!
Watercooled Performance “hipster garbage” Have you seen that team? And the tricks done on those shapes? For fucks sake Chris Miller skates for them
I had two free ones gifted to me and they were absolute garbage. I would not recommend them. There’s plenty stuff out there that’s half the price and more than twice as good. By the way, both decks were the same size and model but neither was the exact same mold. They had the same cut as a shape but their actual shape in concavity and kicks didn’t even match up. The wheel bases didn’t match either and they came warped. I hope that makes sense.
Here I am just rooting through old channel videos. Damn Ben I gotta say I’m missing the comic relief from these old videos, they are truly hilarious haha. Love to see some of that in the new ones. As always love the content. Cheers
thank you Ben for your videos. I've been skating since almost 2 years (I'm 24) and your channel educated me a lot
Nollie frontside stuff on flat feels like a dream with steep kicks
dwindle brands have good selection to steep kick, but i’m not sure what other brands have mellow concave steep kick
We appreciate your use of sunset Rembrandt lighting.
A big thanks for your vid Ben, here in Indonesia (where i'm come from), there's no any video that have a lot information like you did. I'm not a skater, but my son start to learn skateboarding and this vid so helpful. Thank you so much Ben.
Wow... You just cured my ‘ghost’ pop issue thank you so much big dawg.
Hah, I totally lost my flips and struggled with backside 180's when I recently switched to a mellower deck. Ghostflicking all over the place for heels and kickflips, literally missing the board. Starting to figure it out now.. but my next deck will have to be a steep one
Im on the opposite side. I need a mellower deck.
What would u recommend?
If you want steep decks. Go with a baker. Which i have now. And its too dam steep imo. Im in my mid 30s. I dont have the strength to pop the board with tht much force.
Ive been doing leg exercises just to build up strength for skating.
Its sad. I know how to do all my tricks but my body wont let me do it.
@@82PeRK Oh I see! I just got an Antiz board and it's steep and feels great. Will keep baker in mind though.
My previous one was the flatest deck I ever skated. It was a SWEET deck and it's a swedish brand, not sure if they have retailers elsewhere... but look up sweet skateboards!
@@TheFaceless1000 ill keep tht in mind but i found ther exact deck i want
Its a G021 shape.
82PeRK I had a baker board and i could do my flip tricks every try then it got ran over and I got another baker board and I couldn’t do flip tricks on it for shit
I changed to steep concave deck and I love it.
Steep concave is amazing, but it's not the same as steep kicks.
Juraj Behan What kinda deck is it, i needa know
I’m currently riding a Nakel FA board with some indie 149s and it’s my first time trying out an 8.38 board and I FREAKIN LOVE IT! I used to ride like an 8.1- something but when I would try to get a good pop or land tricks of stairs I would always land over the the nose of my board or feel like has no type of control. Now with the 8.38 and the tail being pretty steep, I’ve been landing so much more consistently and getting the most out of my pop!
i saw a big increase of your steez on this board, also on the spitfire tablet wheels.... im def trying such a set up for myself.. thank you 🤙🏽
Haven't tried the tablets, but Spitfire's radial slim wheels are pretty rad too. I took em off because otherwise pebbles were gonna kill me. But if you mostly skate parks they feel really good, and power slide with about half the effort of classics.
I just got a steep deck with 15" wheelbase, I still ghost pop but when I don't the thing takes off. You are spot on with foot placement on the tail, I have two toes hanging off and pop from the ball then the ghosts are gone and I get good height. I ride Indies so that's part of the equation too. What you didn't mention was front foot catches are way easier but Ollie North's are harder. Good vid though, very informative!
Ugh i miss skating but it’s been way too cold. My Last resort has been parking garages but still gets cold. Can’t wait for spring !!!
on the backside tricks being easier on a popped deck-
I feel like its more to do with the nose than the tail. it could just be one factor with the steepness of the tail contributing to the overall ease of doing a bs trick, but I think the steepness of the nose and its ability to catch your front is easier. most bs tricks, especially just basic ollie tricks into banks or off drops, relies on front foot control more so than back foot pop. you can pretty much wholly control a bs 180 with your front foot even if you just pop your tail straight down. especially, with a trick like a back tail, where you must pop, use your front foot to bring the board up off the ground (combined with the pop), while simultaneously turning, dipping the nose to level the board so the tailslide remains in flat contact with the ledge.
even in popping out, the front foot catching the board in a power ollie type motion off the ledge, relies heavily on the front foot.
rant over, sorry if this sound dumb af
open to discussion over this
This was good. I need to go back and give the FA another try. I put 52mm on it and some lower thunders but haven't skated it again since i changed it up. It is the complete opposite of the Flight Deck. Ghost pop was killing me on the nollies. What i did like about the FA was 180s and halfcabs. My foot really stuck to the board well.
We appricate you Sir. Keep doing your one of a kind videos.
:)
I've been following from time ago and you have taught me so many things! Congrats!
This video made me realize why I have to skate smaller wheels on steep concave decks. I've been riding a Black Label deck, with really steep kicks
the last few months with 52-53mm wheels (which I hate) to get the pop and feel I want. So I'm gonna try a flatter deck with my normal 57mm size since that'll probably even things out for me. Thanks Ben 😁
I’ve been riding a chocolate skateboard with mellow kicks and thunder hollows. The mellow kicks felt kinda weird since my previous board had steepkicks but not too bad because my chocolate skateboard has mellow concave like my previous. I got used it and popped more in to the tail like you said .
Which deck of chocolate would u recommend?
Im looking for a more mellow tail and nose. I have a baker and its just too dam steep.
I will only ride a 7.875 though
@@82PeRK i think girl makes good mellow 7,875 my friend rides the pacheco 7.875 girl deck
This was so helpful now I know why I struggle with manuals and ghost pops .thanks👊😁
Yes agreed with ur opinion, I skate a brand deck that it very steep. I alway used all my energy to pop in a right time if I pop the wrong time it like u mention (Ghost pop). I have to spent like 1-2months to get consistant on board.
Steep deck plan B 8.375 Indy 149 standard Bones wheels shape V5 size 55 Swiss bearings shake junt hardware. Mob grip 💪 my gold set up
That sounds almost like Joslin's set up. Just slightly bigger wheels.
Would be cool if you did a grip tape comparison
I totally agree with you on the manual thing. Steep decks are harder to hold a manual. The deck I skated last summer was pretty mellow and flat compared to the board I'm riding now, and that board felt easier to manual
It would be cool if you could try the ricta rapido wheels. Because I have them and I really like them, it would be cool to see what you think of them. I have the slim 54mm ones.
i just got a board with super steep kick (for me at least). this is just the motivation i needed to really give it a chance.
Dang I have no idea if I have a steep kick board or not. Some shops that carry it say it is, but they also say the concave is "medium" instead of the "mellow" that the manufacturer site says it is. The manufacturer's site doesn't characterize the kick/nose angles and I have nothing to compare it to. I have had some issues with "ghost pop" but I think that is mostly because I am relearning how to skate. I do wonder if it really matters or is more work if you aren't already used to a mellower kick. Ah well. I should just indulge myself and get a 2nd setup soon and see what works better for me.
Now I know why steeper decks are easier to learn BS tailslides!!! Ben, your content is amazing!
I dont think I’ve ever ridden a steep kick deck. It might soon try since i mostly ride street.
At the moment , Im loving my AntiHero 8.38 deck with stage 11 hollow indys and 55mm OJ III’s.
Feels like im surfing on concrete
Just bought a steep kick board not really knowing what it was. My 50-50s improved tenfold, my feet are more locked in on fs 180s however my kickflips seemed to have suffered quite a bit. I thought it was new griptape catching my foot on the board then realized I needed to lean back a bit further and flick my foot off the front of the board instead of behind the bolts like I learned how to do kickflips on.
Steep kicks need a more gentle flick to flip it seems, the steeper nose makes it so you can gently slide your foot off the corner to flip instead of putting force into the "flick". Hope this makes sense
its ok, every video is a celebration video to me, and that is because of you i became fully aware of the IMPORTANCE to take in consideration every combination of every board and part i will use for my set up in order to get the best experience i can out of it, and for me squeezing the best i can out of my session has become absolutelly necesary since i am only getting older and time is pretty much not forgiving any decision i make about how i want to enjoy this pair of legs i just taught to skateboard.
:)
8 to8.25 alien boards, 14 inch wheel base, venture lows, and 51mm spitfire f4s . Tried numerous times to ride indy but just too high. Kinda liked thunders with the forged baseplates, but always feel better on venture lows
IT seems with steep decks IT is possible to skate more wild cause there is more space. With the right Pop tricks become higher. I feel more the edges and form of the deck and yes i need more energy. After riding 7 or 8 Mellow chocolate decks. So much love and fun. I decided to ride a steeper deck cause i found one with the wheelbase i know. 360 flips, fs 5-0s, nollies, bs nollies, (sw) kickflips, (sw)fs shovits become nicer. Like more powerful. It is good to be flexible and enjoy details.
Steep decks should go well with Ace and Destructo trucks because they are reducing the wheelbase (compared to Indipendent) and have softer pop to compensate for steep kicks. Thunder trucks would definitely increase the wheelbase and require a lot more force to pop them properly but they will pop the board faster and higher.
I agree with most of what u said, but u forgot to consider decks that already have a short wheelbase like 14.1 and below
Hey Ben, really enjoying your videos they've been very helpful.
I've been attempting to press a few decks of late and just wondered if there's any specific measurements for Low, medium and steep kick?
eg. Low = 20°- 23°???
Med = 23°- 26°???
Steep = 26°- 29°???
Up till now I've just been wing'n it.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Once again great content Ben! Congrats on 2 years and 20k subs broooo! Thats amazing
I'm thinking that (all else being equal) tail steepness controls the pop angle, and wheelbase controls the pop timing. My first board had a 14" wheelbase, and it was too fast for me. Second one had a 14.5" wheelbase and it was too slow and heavy. Finally got a 14.25" wheelbase and it's great. The board just sticks to my feet now and my ollies are 100% more consistent. I never knew wheelbase was so important.
Steep kicks for the win. More pop and tension going around your foot
Just come off a Death 9” pool shape with a symmetrical 7” nose and tail with Indy 149s and 56mm wheels, felt like kicking open a door to snap an ollie.
You seem to have a really good understanding of what you like and dislike about everything skate. To me this is the goal we should all have. To really be able and dive into our tech and find what works for us
I also wonder though if it really makes that much of a difference in trying to optimize the setup. Like if all you skate were mellow kicks then no problem right?!
i like steep decks but i have a couple big problems with them. mainly, my switch tre flip backside noseblunts to gazelle flips out are just way too huge. like, i still land them 95% of the time, but i seriously just get way too high. also, my ollies are just too big - like no joke, my head skimmed a 747 flying at 35,000 feet when i was going down el torro. other than that, they aren't too bad.
Cant wait for the lakai review 🙌🙌🙌
How I feel at work on a Monday morning @2:37 👍🤣
" im tired i wanna go home" issa vibe
Another informative video. Keep it up!
I kinda want the hoodie. Do you know where we can get one?
Gold Blade labs
I just got a board after not skating for 20 years and it's so hard to do things now I realize it's way steeper than my deck I had years ago
I went from a powell ripper that was super mellow and didnt have too steep of kicks which i took a liking to. Im trying to get used to a revive but the tail is so much longer and taller than the powell. Its frustrating but im trying to get used to it
I picked up Deedz new Enjoi pro model (8.375 Football) and it’s interesting, because the nose/tail dims are on par with an 8.125/8.25 with a 14.2WB. It boosts but definitely takes getting used to... feels nothing like my 8.375 Habitat (PS Stix), which I‘m disliking after putting it back in rotation. Riding the Avocado with 144 Titanium’s 🤙🏽
Manuals more difficult! Yes I'm not going crazy!
Hi I was just wondering if i can have a used deck for collection purposes :) greetings all the way from the philippines
they good for me, i guess medium to steep is my zone. but sometimes kick tail can be kinda steep and still feel mellow to me depending on the fingers of flat before it starts to go up, the over all length of the tail and the trucks... i don't like that. i got two pretty new boards right now that I'm riding, a krooked Manderson emperor, 8.38x35, 14.2wb, tactics has the tail at 6.625 but i measure 6.75 without following the curve of the tail, and 7in nose. its a very full shape, squarish nose/tail. its on thunder 149s and 53 spits. the other is a Real Davis wild feathers full SE, 8.25x32, 14.25wb, 6.625tail, 7nose. full shape, blunt nose and some tapper in the tail. its on 148 thunders and 52mm spits. i would consider them both to have medium kicks with the krooked slightly stepper. the tail on the krooked is .25in longer than the real and that .25 goes into the amount of flat after the back bolts before the tail goes up, so that board has a more mellow feeling tail to me. i love the way the Real feels. i have some old indy stage 10 149s to put on the Krooked and see how that feels, and some 5 yr old venture v light highs to try. the real setup is just too perfect right now.
Watching this again four year later, might give a second chance to my almost board with steep kicks