I sooooo want to come to this conference but it's just too expensive for me. As a philosopher, I've always been so fascinated with the opinions and positions of biblical scholars who still remain Christian. They frequently have some of the most nuanced takes and far more compelling reasons for their beliefs and faith. Ugh! I bet this is gonna be amazing.
Eve was trans! God took Adam's presumably XY rib, did some --magic-- miracles on it and popped out a clone with the ability to have kids. Memes aside that was a neat insight about Adam being non-binary before Eve and the apple.
I would imagine you have to make a 2 hour long video explaining this. Because the bible says precisely nothing about gender since that's a term that was invented 5 minutes ago to describe people's mental delusions 😮
What it really says: gender doesn't exist. Sexual orientation doesn't exist. Gender identity doesn't exist. There is only the binary sexual ontology. And what you do and how you feel must be submitted to the objective reality of what you are. Your feelings and fancies are irrelevant to the facts, because these are corrupted by your sinful desires and depraved mind.
@@ThyRetroNerd I don’t consider TERFs feminists. If they can’t even realize trans women are women they are incapable of fighting for the equality of women.
This is why it is utterly, irresponsible and foolish to the extreme, to hold these backward, sick, savage and senseless cultures up as paragons of justice, fairness and truth, and attempt to graph them upon the modern age and modern way of thinking. Yes, we have so, so, many things to get right today, still, as we continue to be a work in progress; but we are doing so, so, many things BETTER, too, than they did in these times, and have such a far, deeper understanding of pretty much, absolutely, everything compared to the understanding of these times. So what thinking person, in their right mind, would SERIOUSLY, want to haul us back to these times and this way of thinking. This has never made any logical sense to me, at all, what-so-ever. Warmest Wishes. Be Well and Safe. Out. 🙂🖐🏼😔
Hearing a respected scholar say "There are a lot of scholars who are huge fans of your work, just so you know" must be such a hugely affirming thing. So many people in the comments on these videos talk about how enlightening and encouraging this type of discourse is, and how refreshing it is to see someone so humbly inspiring civility in discourse, encouraging people to generate light rather than heat; hearing that these respected scholars whose works center around this very thing, must be very affirming and encouraging for this channel and its host, and I'm personally glad to see it.
Absolutely! Especially since I don’t have formal education in this (outside my Bible classes from my evangelical university), it’s very affirming that I’m not out of my depth when doing interviews. Now I’ve really got to be on my best behavior because I know there are some scholars watching lol
@@absoutezeo2126 I think technically it'd be more accurate to say that heat comes from light since all heat is is the transfer of infrared radiation which is a form of light
I remember when my parents divorced, my mother came out as a lesbian. My father used our church as a weapon. The pastor of our church literally asked me to come to the stage at which point he turned me to the audience and had everyone pray to free me of the hold of Satan that was upon me from my sinner mother. I NEVER believed anything any church has said since. I was 8 years old. It was the most humiliating experience I've ever felt.
I am so sorry for you! 😭 that sounds tortuous. I remember being 8 years old, in my aunt's Pentecostal church for the very first time, and my uncle (her brother) who was sick, needing a heart and lung transplants for a rare chronic illness. They took him on stage, in his wheelchair, and started literally screaming in tongues, hands all over him, aggressively, people falling over and everything. I never had felt so scared of adults before. I can't imagine if I were the one on stage, as they pitied me and belittled my mother... my heart goes out to you. 🥺
@cassicampbell1033 oh dear! My sincerest apologies for "humanity" doing that to your family at such a horribly vulnerable time. On one hand it makes people see how crazy it all is, on the other hand it shouldn't be happening in the first place. Thank you for your kind words, it's just nice seeing there's people out there who see through it.
And Christians want people to take them seriously when they cannot address issues within the Church that causes these bigoted rituals. And this is not all too dissimilar of an experience a friend of mine had in his church, but instead it was him who came out and his parents who were grossly religious.
@@polygondeath2361 That's definitely true, but you must also not base your views on us as a whole based on a few outliers. I've never in my entire life seen a Christian genuinely being rude to someone for believing in something else. Don't believe everything the mainstream media tells you. Have a good day.
@@BowlOSoup6661 no, I will. Silence is violence. Especially with an organization as large and as powerful as any one of the notable christian denominations. If I don’t see you actively combatting corruption, hate, and fascism in your community, while others participate, then you are no better than them.
I can only imagine what kind of nonsense he said, probably something like: "men are male and women are female" or something else as equally hateful and stupid.
@@lancewalker2595Someone stated that they were experiencing pain and your response was sarcastic invalidation. That's important information to know about yourself.
It's just facts. Facts can be painful. Like when you know that someone you love is gone... WTF ? Are we in the Teletubbies here ? Invalidation of what ? That you can't become the opposite sex by chopping parts of your body ? Are you trolling ? @@freudianslip000
As a heathen myself, it truly brightens my day to know Christians like you exist. Here in Arizona I'm surrounded by "Christians" walking around with scripture in their mouths and hate in their hearts. Christians like you really need to retake what it means to be Christian. The God I once knew is full of love and compassion. Not the hateful one that's causing your religion to dwindle year by year. Keep up the fantastic work
I’m an atheist, but I feel this way about the scholars I interviewed. They’re wonderful, thoughtful, compassionate people. We need more folks like them.
Dude. I left the church I used to go to and cut all contact with everyone because they were homophobes. That church is currently struggling and is understaffed (due to constant turnover). Most people respond to love, not hate. 😊
whats wrong with "scripture in their mouths" ? also i do agree that a lot of 'christians' (in america especially) just use random out of context bible verses to try and justify hate but idk bout the idea of 'retaking what it means to be a Christian.' could you explain more like what you meant by that? cause i may have misinterpreted but it sounded like changing what Christianity is which ion fw personally, if it meant something more like going back to true Christianity and following what Jesus actually taught and trying to live life in Gods image rather than just using "christianity" as an excuse to live hateful lives without any remorse though then i do heavily fw it. also what you said near the end about "the God i once knew" and "the hateful one", that same God you once knew is still just as loving and compassionate, and that hateful one is satan pretending to be God. imo as a Christian (if it wasnt clear before) i think that a lotta supposed christians nowadays think just cause they go to church on sunday and have a cross in their bio that they can get away with being real hateful and that its because 'it says ___ in the bible' when really thats the devil in disguise and they know damn well that verse within context wouldnt be able to justify what they be saying whatsoever. also if it sounds like a bit of a stretch that thats truly the devil doing that, js think who else would actively want Christianity to dwindle down but satan, and that would be a good way for him to try and do that too by letting people believe that their ways of thinking align with what God would want that way they dont spend the time to question whether its right or not to act so hatefully. also my fault if i ranted a bit and ion know all that much about scripture and whatnot (learning though as i am only 15 got a lotta time left hopefully) so if some stuff i said seemed a bit inaccurate to what Jesus says please lmk. and thanks if you did read this whole thing! God loves you😊🙏
LET'S BE CLEAR TO THOSE GODLESS PEOPLE... WE ARE JUST TIRED OF YOU TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU DO NOT EVEN BELIEVE;as obsessed idiots. That why they always come here "saying they were Christian", or "Saying personal stuff about themselves" or "Saying something superficial" or "Makes stupid jokes" or "Laugh as stupids" (They do that because they have less secret things in their miserable life)... As be a Christian or a believer makes you have more to have more precious things in your live, and much worst to be a godless and soulless desperate (alone) idiot. But any way... LET'S STQART AND SHOW HOW MUCH NONE WILL MISS THOSE PEOPLE AN THEIR EMPTY CULT WHEN IT WILL GO BACK FROM THE NOTHING IT COMES FROM... ALSO BECAUSE IT IS WORTHLESS... (And without God you are more worthless then the believers... that is simple the true). Why godless alone people are obsessed with God?? and talk about him more then a believer? Well for many reason.... 1) About that BS called atheism there is not much things to say, no value, no sacred things and and it leads to nothing. 2 And then because they know they are so many godless alone people that will run to kiss their ass... 3 they do that so this cult can be alive, otherwise is destined to vanish, exactly from the nothing it comes... because is nothing but a cult that has nothing to offer to us and neither to the godless alone people who belonged to 4 And finally this cult will be vanished without those videos and those godless alone people will be just alone. And who said the opposite is a godless alone hypocrite. This cult called atheism is so empty... And those godless alone people really have nothing to offer to themselves. They have less sacred things then us... what an idiots they are for that too. Let's hope in a better generation because this is so lost. You are into an empty cult that leads you nowhere... No respect for you, godless ass kisser.... You really left God to put BS and emptiness in your miserable Life. No Pity for you. (God is always you do not know)..... We need to move to a better generation, and Hope godless alone people like you will not exist anymore in the future (you are worthless your cult called atheism). What you realised that Atheism is just an empty cult? That Have nothing to offer to you, or to the humanity? It leads to nowhere? To the Obsession for God? For Christianity? That there is not comfort on it??? And that live and die as an alone godless person is not the best you can have? Just as have the idea that once you die you will be Nothing (and Nothing you are now, as you become what you think you will be once death) is not the best for your mental and psychological stability? Or have sacred things (as other people have) and you do not (such God) is so idiot that you are rething about everything and start to believe that Atheism is not but a BS, and a trap you are in???? They are patethic and worthless as their empty cult called atheims, which will not lead them anywhere, but a alone godless desperate life that they will never admit it. No respect for them. THAT IS JUST AN EMPTY CULT, AND WHEN IT AND THOSE GOLDESS WORTHELSS SOULESS PEOPLE WILL BE BACK TO THE NOTHING THEY COME FROM, NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT. NO RESPECT FOR THEM AND THEIR NO SENSE CULT (godless ass kisser, wirth no dignity)... THEY BRING EMTPTYNESS as their cult called atheism... Shame on them and their desperation.... Anyway only a pathetic person can learn something from someone who explain you a thing obsessively that does not even believe... (with videos that are not helpful for their life...) WHAT AN EMPTY NOSENSE MODERN CULT YOU ARE TRAPPED IN, AND YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF........ Atheism is just empty BS, but those godless alone people are so sad to do not get... Let's hope in the new generation, this one is so lost, and none will cry when their worthelss atheism will be over. Your wortheless empty Atheism is dragging you to the nothing it give to youy (and to us) but you are too pathetic (as atheism) to get it. No rpesct for you godless assk kisser. No respect for you Godenier... You just worth as your atheims: 0. For real what an empty cult... when this worthelss cult will be over none will complain... Our faith is much stronger then your empty BS. Deal with it. (it is far better to be a God believer, then a godless alone person as you in an emoty cult that does not give us and even to you anything)
I was too. Now a septic atheist. I felt lied too and almost felt into depression when i finally realized how much BS religions were. Just like the new woke movement is too... And guess what ? The new kings made it up just like religions in the past. So yeah, sadly i see it gaining more and more traction because people are getting dumber and dumber... Religions are being replaced by ideology, i would've hoped that reason would replace it. Humans are useless creatures capable of extreme things good and bad. But it always sums up to 0. The only reason i'm alive is because my kid is young, didn't ask to come to this world... But as soon as he doesn't need me anymore........ this "bigot" like you are thinking rn, is going back to the nothing he came from. F this world.
It also addresses the fact that the way we understand patriarchy was a direct result of the woman's curse. A very insightful and well-deserved book to read. Honestly, it has been one of my favorites this year alone.
@heyyitsjude absolutely agreed. both "the making of biblical womanhood" and "Jesus and john wayne" (by kristen kobes du mez) are excellent. i read them at the same time and it was like just taking a wrecking ball to the evangelical purity-based culture i grew up in, especially considering both women are still christians. the notions of patriarchy as a product of the fall and of the very hegemonic concept of "biblical womanhood" as something that modern patriarchy projected onto the text were very eye-opening to me.
Tis not The Bible itself, as it is ultimately a history book in its own way, rather it was the people who twisted or corrupted its words, or even added in extra-biblical or even apocryphal texts in atrocious attempts at shoehorning and dictating their personally flawed world-views onto other people because they couldn't accept either being wrong about The Word or even just simply A World where they aren't the one's in absolute authority or calling some form of shots!
@heyyitsjudeno the Bible is IS inherently misogynistic. The old testament and new testament’s original text that source the translations we have today are made by patriarchal men and spew plenty of misogynistic views on women. Stop lying to yourself and defending the root ideology behind thousands of years of abuse of women. For ALL of Christian history women have had shame and purity culture and idea of “submission to men” forced on them. This has only changed in the last 70-60 years due to the rise of humanism.
Ah yes. I always want to yell at my propaganda teacher when he says that CaThOlIcS aReNt SeXiSt (my propaganda teacher is my religion teacher, I’m agnostic, but I go to a catholic high school)
A lot of it can be seen as a cult. They are groomed from a very young age to believe everything they are told. Do not sit back question or think about it just blind belief. It is actually really horrible if you grow up in that to get out
"As an ignorant person, i don't understand why people who know more than me would disagree with me on a point of controversy which i am wrong about due to my ignorance"
No, I don't think that was the point. Rather, some cultural behaviors (like a harmful use of power) are "sin." Other cultural behaviors, even though recently understood, may be commendable. Perhaps the Bible and other resources can help us see this point.
The Bible condemns all sin. The main point of the Bible is that Jesus came to Earth to save us and that we cannot enter the kingdom of God (Heaven) without him.
As a nonbinary person i will henceforth only be referring to myself as “an androgynous earth critter” EDIT: please stop engaging with the guy in the replies it’s not worth it I promise
I’m very open to fluid sexual self identification and I believe in equality, but I don’t understand the “nonbinary” identifier. I am usually the one to help my wife understand trans issues in a more positive accepting light, but I think the word trans means to transition from one thing to another, right? Or is it to be in a transitional state between two or more things? There are only two sexes, though yes sometimes the body presents as intersex. If gender as a social construct is imaginary, and sex is meant to be binary by nature so as to allow sexual reproduction, how can a person call themselves nonbinary? What does that mean? Is it like inventing a new sex and just deciding to call yourself that, unless you present as intersex and that’s what nonbinary means…?
@@HumanValor First, the adjective use of trans describes a person whose gender does not match that which was assigned at birth by a doctor's cursory examination of the child's genitals. The gender binary assumes one must be either male or female and there's nothing else even when someone realizes body ≠ gender. Some of us don't fit into either one of those. Our gender is not either binary choice. Therefore non binary. It's that simple, though you perhaps should look at your assumptions about physical sex as well, it's not as simple as it appears at first glance.
I think this quote is interesting (@5:20) "It's not natural for men to have long hair..." And then.... just about every representation I have ever seen of Jesus and many other biblical characters are portrayed with... long hair. Whats up with that?
@@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic It's like how most artistic depictions of Jesus show him to be white, even though he likely wouldn't be due to being from the Middle East.
Which begs the question about the Shroud whose guy has a long ponytail. Was he an observant Jew or not? Cutting of hair was detailed in the Torah (you know, as so much more urgent than that whole slavery foolishness).
@@ItsMoorbinTimeAlso he is always portrayed as a handsome man, when to my understanding Jesus was not physically attractive, specially because he would not have much hardship attracting a following if he looked how he is portrayed.
Oh, dude. I was raised evangelical, but my dad is part native american. I get called "gay" by that side of the family all the time. I've been with my wife for 12yrs. We have a 7yo girl together. I do pretty heterosexual stuff regularly, but my hair is long. So, I MUST be "gay". 😂
As a gay who grew up in the church these interviews were very enlightening to listen to. I find it interesting how it seems like a lot of these verses are actually about preserving masculinity and shame men who bottom. Interesting when bottom shaming is something that happens even in gay communities too.
If it is in the Bible even once then it is considered important to read. You also have to read with context of the situation too. But the fact that not even all of Jesus’ miracles made it into the Bible (John 21:25) would indicate that the fact homosexuality being mentioned as a sin 5 times as you would claim, is even more important for the people to know than to know of every single miracle Jesus did. Look, I can tell based on your comment that you’re not a believer of the Bible. I don’t expect this to change your world view but the Bible is very clear in what it preaches. It 100% condemns homosexuality. You can call it morally unjust but you can’t sit here and try to say that it says homosexuality is an okie dokie thing either. I’d rather someone be an atheist than to be a bad Bible reader.
As an intersex and nonbinary individual who has been grappling with my own personal deconstruction of Christianity (as well as the compulsive desire to "fill the gap" that left me feeling somehow both hopelessly directionless, but also free for the first time in my life), I found this entire video to be fascinating and affirming in so many ways. I'm also truly excited to share this with my father who is a Christian and absolutely adores hearing different perspectives on the abrahamic faiths and watching debates on similar subjects. I hope this might also open his eyes a bit more to the false weaponization of biblical passages, and allow him a bit more openness towards my presence and identity as a human being.
I’m glad you liked it! I hope it’s useful in conversation with your dad and any others who need a nudge toward complexity and compassion over dogma. ❤️
I’m curious how you felt a direction from Christianity, and what it was to you. I gave it up so early in my life that I don’t miss it, yet I do find that I have to decontaminate from cultural influences that are just steeped in Christian belief. Without knowing what you actually mean about needing to fill the gap, I will take the risk of offering you a different perspective on your life. Find a moral code that can carry you through any situation, and allows you to be the best you possible. Define what you know and feel about religion and compare and contrast that with what you believe and feel outside of religious beliefs. You don’t have to believe in nothing…you can choose to believe that you don’t know everything. I’m not an atheist, and I’m not an agnostic. I have beliefs that incorporate my personal experiences, but I don’t force others to listen to them, or to adopt them. And I like science enough to test my beliefs against theory. But I also like deconstructing biblical text since our culture is so full of it. I actually think the genesis story is passed down knowledge put into words for unscientific people. For example, fluids are water and gases, and water and gases form solids…so separating the waters is a very basic way of describing formation of the forms of matter into things like gas clouds, stars, planets, comets, and everything else. And all matter has vibration…motion. A word is a vibration. The Bible saying that God said a word to start creation is a simple way to say that imparting motion into a system started the process, including starting the clock of measuring the change of state that occurs for time to be measured. I think someone passed that information to us. Aliens, or a past advanced human society…IDK…but I like to think about it. I like to look at what others say, and look at archeological sites that don’t fit the timeline of the Bible influenced scholars. I think there was a great flood…there is too much human made archeology being found under the water around the globe for there to not have been a huge influx of water into the oceans, meaning it wasn’t just localized flood events. So, anyway…you get to choose what is interesting to you or not. You get to decide how far you let your imagination explore possibilities. And you get to decide how you should be the human who you are. I hope you have the very best life possible! 🤗
@@Mulberrysmile For me, I was raised in a way that leaned quite heavily on the shame and guilt side of abrahamic religions. I grew up in constant fear of punishment from a god who I "knew" hated me for being born gay, trans, disabled, and intersex, I was quite literally a pariah within the church (which I was forced into against my will). On one hand, I was treated horribly for years and developed paranoia that I still struggle with to this day but, on the other, after years of having every part of myself diminished and drowned in shame I found the strict guidelines of organized religion to be a safe space. I didn't have to be a person, I just had to follow rules and be subservient, put others before myself at all times, deny myself joy and be a puppet for others. I wasn't truly a person. Once I broke through the conditioning I'd been under at 16, I was relinquished from the claws of a faith that had defined me as disgusting, abhorrent, and worthless since the day I was born... But I also found myself lost and afraid, unsure who I actually was beneath all of the church's expectations. I no longer had fear and shame to instruct me, I had to learn independently what it meant to be a human being on the cusp of adulthood with very little time to figure things out. In all honesty, I was utterly terrified. I even fell into another organized religion in a desperate attempt to have someone else control me again, it was a very unhealthy situation, but I have since then been able to sit in that place of unknowing and come to terms with it. In the last six years, I learned that I do not need fear to tell me how to feel, I have my own opinions and morals that no god has the right to take away from me, and I deserve to be loved no matter the state my body exists in. My lovely girlfriend (who grew up abused by the same exact church I did) is an atheist, and we explore different concepts of the known universe together, without pressure to hold specific beliefs or knowledge. I'm learning to be content with not having every answer in the moment and discovering that, no matter what the church tried to tell me, I am worthy of life and I do not need to change to remain in this world. It's a difficult journey, but it's one I'm making stubbornly and without compromise for my safety anymore. Also thank you so much for the kind and knowledgeable response, I'll take what you shared into account and use it as I further my journey of self.
Just out of curiosity, since you’re intersex and nonbinary would you consider yourself cisgender? :0 or do you feel like you’d be under the trans umbrella since you were likely raised in a binary way?
oF All the bullshit terminology generated by that vile queer religion modnernism the asiniine"non-binary" is by far and away the most asinine.In times past men spoke of the quick and the dead and you csn'y gry more binary than that. It is as if the loons of that vile religion modernism have invent ed yet another of their vast calendar of sins as binary-or perhaps that is just another of their strange orthodoxies which they also churn out almost by the hour.When I was young_ishabout a cetury ago tthry told us about something call binary fishing, so semingly one can fish for binaries There but two sexes actavus and paassavus or as the beings of the planet earth say men and women beings of the active and passive sex respectively.
I always find the historical context so fascinating. I was taught at Baylor that the passage in Corinthians addressing women's head scarves had a specific Greek context. In Greek culture, married women wore a light scarf while unmarried women did not. It was culturally understood that married women not wearing a scarf were looking for an affair. So, the importance of wearing a scarf in church was a prohibition on adultery, not modesty. Similarly, there are interesting differences found in Galatians that aren't found elsewhere. Galatians was written to churches found in Galatia, a province that had been home to Gallic tribes for 300 years. This required some differing guidance compared to what was given to Greek churches. Super interesting stuff as far as I am concerned.
The background claim is made up, no historical evidence whatsoever. Great video on head coverings i put in my playlist if you want to dig into a scholarly analysis
Purely as a mater of anodyne acdemic interest to what extent have you ben able to verify for yourself whether or not what you were"aught at Baylor" was or was not complete bunkum?
@vhawk1951kl Oh, that is exceptionally fair to ask. I am also extremely skeptical of the religious establishment. They had us going to chapel every week, teaching us Jesus was a real, spiritual figure. Truly divine. I imagine all of that was B.S. It is one of the major reasons why I deconverted.
Dr. Knust's observation about the story of the adulterous woman that "the woman was the silent ground upon which the law was debated" is an absolute banger of a phrase. It matters just as much today, thinking about topics like how old white men in positions of legal power debate back and forth and toss women around as bargaining chips when it comes to topics like abortion.
absolutely. I'd always been bothered about this story in a different but related way - in my experience liberal christians tend to use it as an example of why evangelical christians are 'doing it wrong', saying this story shows you shouldn't judge or be hateful towards people regardless, which bothers me mostly because that's usually not the argument we're having. The church I grew up with was great about not being hateful towards sinners, but they still thought homosexual actions were a sin and that marriage should only be between a man and a woman. They were perfectly loving when they looked at people like me with sympathy in their eyes and offered to pray for their struggles. It barely hurts any less to have someone you love reacting to your sexuality with sympathy and concern than anger. The issue, most of the time, is whether the adulterous woman sinned, not whether one should stone her. Don't stone her is level 0 of the issue, it only helps in the most basic, rudimentary level of moral action
Old white men? Here we see the leftist mental disorder, in reality white countries are way more tolerant to women than POC ones, the most mysigenistic people on earth are brown men from the Arab world, white people are miles ahead in terms of tolerance. And the judge who overturned Roe vs. Wade was black
You can talk about white men but when people want a better life they sure do love to show up to white majority countries and neighborhoods and schools n so thank a white man every time you see immigrants show hi because they sure love to show up to what we made.
I have the utmost respect for you taking this project on. It's incredibly difficult to engage with scripture in good faith and even more difficult to find someone willing to discuss in good faith (no pun intended) without letting their personal biases influence the conversation. On top of that, it's really hard not to just dismiss the entirety of religious practice as flawed dogmatism that does more harm than good. It's important to do this kind of work because it helps pull the zeitgeist away from theocratic authoritarianism even if that's a monumental task. Thanks.
Zeitgeist is an idiom, a manner of speech - we have it as a loanword from German, meaning "time ghost". It just means "that which belongs to the modern discourse", the capturing of what's on everyone's consciousness today.
@@talkwith_Lina babe, why'd you make an account to try to misrepresent a group of people that you obviously don't understand. your account was made like three hours ago. how can a human being do stuff like this and not realize they're very obviously the a**hole???
I'm a closeted trans male and a non believer, but my parents force me to go to church with them. I live in an extremely conservative, religious community. The pastor at our church literally called gay/trans people pedophiles in a serman💀💀💀💀 I'm so done with these ppl, seriously💀💀💀
that is not true Christianity, thats just a group of really opinionated conservatives using the Lords name as a scapegoat for their hatred. Jesus loves you, and i hope you have a great day and dont take what those people say to heart
@@micah4628Good old “No Scotsman” fallacy, unfortunately it’s up to religious people to interpret what scripture is. Also ironically, the Catholic Church held secret records of known pedos that role played as religious leaders, yet did not report them to police out of grounds that they could do this themselves, meaning they just shifted their jobs around the world and never fired them or reported them
@@micah4628What is "true Christianity?" Especially when the books in the Bible contradict one another on multiple points, and denominations disagree on the importance of church doctrine for exegesis.
It's so weird you posted this today after my conservative Christian mom and I had a multi-hour discussion about this stuff yesterday. Was one of those coincidences I would've attributed to God if I was still a believer
It's good you had the bravery to face the world without your safety blanket. Good job, and while it might not mean much from a stranger, I'm proud of you.
It's incredible that a few badly translated words without adequate context in a text from thousands of years ago have caused and continue to cause such an amount of human suffering over many generations.
@kereal2591 How embarrassing for you. You see, if you actually watched the first three minutes of this video, you would know that this exact "point" is literally why this video exists and that most of it is *CHRISTIAN SCHOLARS* who love God and the Bible so much that they went and *learned the original language the Bible was written in* talking about the exact meaning of those words in said language and the social context the Bible was written in. No atheist ever made any statements about the translation at any point in this video because it's about letting educated Christians speak. But I guess a certain part of Christianity is simply allergic to that kind of education, as well as excessively determined to make themselves look like jackasses at any possible turn.
@@rainpooper7088 Anyone who says the bible is 'falsely translated" is already lying and a fraud. it's NOT falsely translated. Thousands of scholars over thousands of years have been hard at work translating all books of the bible, but now suddenly because some modern nutjob says so, all a sudden the translation is wrong? it doesn't matter what you think of it, the bible and every Abrahamic religion will agree there is 2 genders, man and women, who are meant to be with each other and ONLY with each other.
@@kereal25911 second of a search on google and u will find that the bible got rewriten/changed more than 30000 times ☠️ I checked this like in 1-2 seconds
I’m an orthodox Christian. I don’t have a long endearing comment to right I just have a thank you. Sent this to my priest and he said we will have a chat. Pray for me, or send me good thoughts I guess because your an atheist haha
@@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic yeah it went surprisingly well! He’s always been open to hearing about things from my perspective, it’s not everyday that a young lesbian joins a “traditional” religion that is less then 1% of the countries population and usually somewhat homophobic, but all the books I recommended to him he never had time to read. So this video was a pretty neat, short enough thing that he could listen to as a podcast while setting up for church. We essentially had a two hour debate/conversation going back and forth between what he knew and what I knew, but overall I got him to agree to actually reading my books and to delve more into the works of lgbt+ affirming scholars and to speak with friends of his that are actually doctors in biblical study and what not. So I wasn’t expecting a bad reaction but I also wasn’t expecting such an open one so quickly. He also said it was nice to see an atheist being respectful (we come from a country where the population is 40% (Protestant/Catholic) Christian and 40% atheist so debates are pretty crazy) and also that you had a “very tolerable accent for an American” 😂 Also I watched a couple of your other vidoes and you genuinely seem like a nice guy with interesting points, I also have learnt alot about the situation of American Christianity, really worrying stuff. Anyway have a lovely day!
I'm glad that you were able to have a honest conversation with you pastor. I'm also a Christian and I love Skeptic's videos. I think he does a really good job at being compassionate and caring towards his audience (though I obviously don't know him personally). Honestly, his videos have helped me in challenging a lot of old views like the Afterlife and LGBTQ+ issues. I have always had issues with how the church treated same sex relationships... but I grew up being told that God didn't approve of "gay people"... Personally I'd be interested in some of the literature you offered your Pastor, as I would like to get a better understanding myself.
My former pastor in Toronto (before I started deconstructing) got that verse marker tattooed on his arm, and we all thought it was he was so cool and funny for doing that. That pastor has now had quite the fall from grace, and is facing multiple charges of sexual abuse. You tell me which is more ironic
I don't take the bible as an inerrant authority (and I might argue that no one should), but of course we deal with plenty of people who do, so it's good to know what it actually says on these topics. Thank you for sharing this discussion
how did Jesus teach? by telling parables(stories). so interpreting the Bible as a collection of stories from GOD with moral discussion behind them is in keeping with JC's style.
@@DigiTheInformer that's not even in the same ballpark as being rational. Because musicians write songs, their autobiographies can be reinterpreted to be fictional rhymes designed to evoke an emotion? Foolishness
@@DigiTheInformer I love that story with the Great Flood (hopefully a parable JC-style) where all the children are drowned. I think the moral was something about shovelling (animal) poop for forty days and forty nights, but I don't remember any more.
It would be very difficult for me as someone personally affected by religious bigotry to have a "friendly debate" with someone about it. That distance of being personally unaffected sure does help have a "discussion" about whether integral parts of we gays are worthy of eternal damnation 🙃
Hey, come on, it's not so bad, at least you'll get to hang out with cool people in hell. I'll be there too, since I'm a woman who has never had children. I too am damned for all eternity.
whether being gay is a sin or not, one the main concepts in the bible is that all humans are sinners and they only way to achieve salvation is through Jesus. nobody with more than like 7 functioning braincells (Christian or not) has ever said that being gay sends you to hell. everyone deserves hell by default, and Jesus is the one who saves us from it. everybody is 'worthy of eternal damnation.' for example from a Christian perspective, a gay person who has accepted Jesus in their heart would get into Heaven, but a straight person who hasn't will end up in Hell. to the best of your ability, try not to take those peoples words to heart who affected you so badly and realize that they had hate in their hearts and weren't truly preaching the word of God, they were preaching their own bigoted takes and disguising it as 'christianity.' id even go as far as to say that the people saying and doing these things have been in a way corrupted by satan, cause what they say sure isnt what the bible says. and even if this sound a bit crazy ion think its that much of a stretch cause if you think abt it from the perspective of satan, itd be a lot easier to get people thinking with hate and all that if you disguise it as being 'the christian way' that way you could corrupt society while staying under the radar. im ngl i kinda started writing this js thinking stuff off the top of my head but im lowkey kinda cooking here idk i might be onto something. its kinda like that thing people say in tiktok comment sections like "the call is coming from within the house" the sin and destruction can come from within the church, and people wont think to look there cause its supposed to be a holy place. my fault if i ranted there a lil bit at the end but main points i wanted to get across was: being gay isnt a determining factor of if one goes to heaven or hell, Jesus loves you, and those who hate for the sake of hating and use the bible as a scapegoat for their hatred arent preaching true Christian values and (maybe?) their souls are filled with Satan and hatred rather than God and goodness. thanks so much if you read all this! hope you have a great day bro, God bless
Everyone is worthy of eternal damnation. That's the point. We have all disobeyed God's law, all failed to keep the commandments. In doing so we have wasted the blood of Christ that is of infinite value and have committed a crime of infinite magnitude that deserves infinite punishment. However, the Lord is a God of mercy who doesn't want us to go to hell, but the debt for our sin must be paid. So he sent his son, a man without any sin, to pay the debt that you owe God for your transgression when he died on the cross. All you have to do is to accept his sacrifice and you will escape hell.
@@francelaferriere6106 In hell, you'll suffer alone. The Bible never speaks about being childless as a sin, but that's not why people go to hell. The only reason people go to hell is because they've chosen to live their life separate from God. The only way out is by following Jesus.
I have such ridiculously mixed feelings about Dan McClellan. His content on TikTok is so helpful and is doing so much good, but I cannot for the LIFE of me figure out how a critical scholar can most closely identify with the LDS church. A critical scholar who's still a theist makes total sense to me, but not an LDS one. I'd love to hear him speak more on it sometime.
@@tennicksalvarez9079 lds is an acronym for the Mormons, "latter day saints." Is their preferred self label, since as you demonstrate, people are less aware of the term and thus it has less bad connotations
This topic is where the rubber meets the road. They aren't happy just to impose that on themselves, in their own covens, their own buildings. They want to impose it on EVERYONE as part of the Dominionist ethos.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The message of Christianity is supposed to be a message of love. Those who claim that the bible justifies their hate are either tragically misinformed about their own religion or purposefully misrepresenting the bible and taking specific verses out of context to mislead others into believing their lies. I feel pity for the first category and disgust for the second. I resent what these two groups together have done both to public perception of religion and to those they hate. However, I try not to resent these people and instead wish that they would realize their mistakes and change themselves for the better. I believe that the world would be a better place if we could all just get along with each other. I wish we could stop this petty bickering and focus on the real problems with our world like climate change and the poor, homeless, and starving. However, I am far from perfect in this regard. I sometimes find myself outraged at the people who spread these lies. Despising a lie is totally reasonable, but being outraged at the people who peddle those lies won't help anyone. They are people too. This only works if everyone stops talking in terms of us and them which seems to be really hard for any of us to do.
The people with all the power and the wealth would rather we continued to divide ourselves so that we may not ever unite to cause those with all the power and the wealth to share power and wealth.
It's a good thing that you choose to interpret the bible as a message of love and use that to do your best as a person, however it's only your intuition that the message of christianity is supposed to be loving. Other people could easily argue that the main message of christianity is submission to god, and the actions of this god are decidedly not loving for the most part.
A book so perfect that you have to study it's history, it's context, and learn to understand at least two more languages in order to have the "correct" interpretation of what the texts in the book say. So perfect.
In what universe should I take advice on sex and gender from a book that tells people not to wash their hands before eating because they had no idea of the germ theory of disease?
Buy an old Sega, and do it in that universe. Other than that, enjoy it as a poorly written historical fiction book. Oh, and I don't think gender was even a concept then. Or Sex for that matter since they really didn't know anything about biology. (And yes, I am joking about all of this. There is no universe where you take it seriously).
What? The Torah tells people to wash their hands constantly. I don’t know of anywhere that the New Testament contradicts any of the mitzvahs related to cleanliness, can you point out the verse that does so?
@@stevendorries Before eating? Where exactly does it say that? Washing was religious and had nothing to do with being clean in an actual sense. Can YOU point out where it says to be clean due to pathogens?
I can't believe more people don't recognize Lot's story in Genesis is condemning rape and not homosexuality. It really takes a lot of ignorance to read a passage about a group of people wanting to rape angels and think it is a problem for no other reason than they're all men.
Siker brings up something that I always thought was crazy about the Sodom story: Abraham bargains with God over the righteous people who still live amongst the unrighteous in Sodom. God says he's going to destroy everyone there (righteous and unrighteous alike) and Abraham says "what if there are just fifty righteous people? you gonna kill 50 good people?" And god says "no, i'll spare 50 people." Then Abraham says "what about 40?" God says "ok not 40," and then "what about 30?" and so on down until God agrees that he won't kill 10 good people. And then Abraham just stops. First of all, why was God willing to kill good people, before Abraham convinced him not to? And secondly, how come Abraham, seemingly defending the righteous against the indiscriminate unjust destruction of an angry god, thinks that up to 9 good people are ok to get murdered by God? Why didn't he negotiate down to "you should spare the city if there is even one righteous person who might die in the crossfire"? In the end there are iirc four righteous people (Lot, his wife, and their two unmarried daughters), and God does warn them to leave but ends up killing one of them anyway. You dropped the ball, Abe, and now Lot's wife is dead.
The conversation had nothing to do with changing God’s mind. He already knew how depraved Sodom is, rather it undoubtedly showed that God was justified in His action to Judge the wicked. Hence them being unable to find even 10 righteous people. You can see how sin had absolutely corrupted these people, including lot and his family. They wanted to r*** the angels and Lot even tried to offer his daughters up in their place to protect his guests (the sodomite culture took a toll on him). While they were escaping, God commanded them not to look back at the destruction of the city. Lots wife looked back, it showed she still had longing and affection for the sinful culture of the city. Shocking things continue to happen in the passage. Lot’s daughters engage in a way in that shows their lack of faith in God, it’s also a reflection of the morality in the Godless culture they were raised upon.
I too wondered that. I figured maybe Abraham felt like he had already pushed his luck too far and didn't want to piss God off. I also never liked Lot and didn't think he qualified as "righteous" after what he pulled while trying to defend his guests.
@@annalisasteinnes Yeah, the fact that Lot is considered "righteous" despite offering his daughters up to be raped is another big problem with that whole story of course. that's a more well-known objection
@@annalisasteinnes yeah but I think the story points in the direction 'he even gives his own flesh to protect his guests'. I mean, he didn't put people in danger - only women (sorry for the joke, but it's to rediculous for me that they are more of a thing you own than fellow persons)
Abraham didn't convince him not to. He was seeing if God was planning to do it to begin with, that's why he stopped at ten. He wasn't debating the Lord, just asking him what he already planned to do.
I’ve heard more people than I can count tell me why they feel like the Bible does or doesn’t condemn homosexuality and I’ve heard so much discussion about it, in good faith and not so good faith. As usual, awesome video! I ultimately look at it this way… Nobody should care what the Bible says. Just because an old book says to do something, you don’t have to. The Bible says some awesome things that I try to do as much as possible, but because they’re good things, not because they’re in the Bible! Ultimately I feel like just treat others with kindness and love, that’s the single best way to do the right thing and will rarely lead you astray!
I cannot express enough, my deep appreciation for the work you do and the compassionate mindset you have in discussing these topics and providing better context for all of us, wether we are atheists, believers or somewhere in between, and wether we are content or recovering from religious trauma. Even 20+ years into my recovery i still struggle sometimes with "reteating to my battle line " as Dr. McClellan so accurately pointed out; and watching your videos and listening to the discussions really helps me remember myself and continue to work at being a person that builds bridges rather than salting the earth. Thank you @GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic
Correct. I never liked slanderous Christphobe types anyways (unless you maybe count historical figures that happen consider Christianity to be heresy or fictional characters).
This is such an amazing video - literally every minute was amazingly interesting and informative, in a 2-hour video. Thank you so much for making this! I definitely want to attend that online conference now
It is still like that today for some people, I'm in Latin America and I know many "straight" guys who had sex with other men but because they were the top it doesn't matter, I don't understand the logic in it, but who am I to question?
@@DeltaH-9of course they are, or at the very least bisexual, but what OP refers to is the mentality of some of those men, who think that as long as you're not penetrared and your asshole doesn't get touched, you're fine and you're not gay/bisexual.
@@DeltaH-9 They don't consider themselves gay, they often have wives, girlfriends, and say they don't feel any attraction to men, they think if they are the top they are straight because in their mind what makes someone gay is being in the bottom, in the receiving end, the woman in the act, my country is 88% Christian and most people are not super well-educated on gender and sexual orientation issues (to the point they tend to conflate the two, some people think gay men are trans just because they bottom), so it makes sense that the way they think is somewhat similar to the bible. Also, bisexual people are a thing and I don't dictate people orientation, they are what they say they are, and you can have sex with people you're not attracted to, it's possible, I'm asexual, I've done it.
I agree with the same-sex sexual-romantic readings (per Joel Baden, Thomas Römer, and Saul Olyan), but it's an _intentionally nebulous_ narrative playing deeply on political kinship dynamics and literary tropes, making it generally unuseful in Evangelical debates. Römer observes that the texts appear to have been transmitted precisely because they allowed a heterosexual reading.
This popped up randomly on my recommended. I’m from an incredibly Christian multigenerational family and my Faith strained and broke after their reception of me coming out many years back. This has been a fascinating watch, thank you.
What if Paul was just Asexual and had no desire whatsoever for sexual relations, there are many people like this today. So how could he possibly understand? Must be easy for him to tell others to abstain from desire and to my surprise even marriage.
i guess but this mentality is like telling someone whos addicted to drugs that theyre not gonna be able to quit because its hard to abstain from desire. just because something is mentally challenging doesnt mean its impossible or that you shouldnt do it. not talking bout this video specifically but js that way of thinking in general. personally i prefer the mindset that you can do whatever you put your mind to if you want it bad enough (if you want to stay away from certain desires, you by all means are capable of doing so). i js think that its a more hopeful postive and optimistic way of living/thinking but maybe thats js me though idk you do what you want and all that
@@micah4628In 12 step programs, they actually do specifically tell addicts that they are not in control and cannot help themselves. It's why many ex-alcoholics avoid even going near bars, because they could fall off the wagon.
Well, if vagina is inverted penis - this means that penis is inverted vagina So this definition isn't inherently mysogynistic, just ignorant people interpret it as such
As a gay man, I found this a very informative discussion of the biblical approach towards gender, sex and sexuality (it's a bit long so I've only watched the first 45 minutes so far). I would suggest Reacteria's fascinating "Sex and Sensibility" video as the perfect complement to this one, from the scientific perspective.
LET'S BE CLEAR TO THOSE GODLESS PEOPLE... WE ARE JUST TIRED OF YOU TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU DO NOT EVEN BELIEVE;as obsessed idiots. That why they always come here "saying they were Christian", or "Saying personal stuff about themselves" or "Saying something superficial" or "Makes stupid jokes" or "Laugh as stupids" (They do that because they have less secret things in their miserable life)... As be a Christian or a believer makes you have more to have more precious things in your live, and much worst to be a godless and soulless desperate (alone) idiot. But any way... LET'S STQART AND SHOW HOW MUCH NONE WILL MISS THOSE PEOPLE AN THEIR EMPTY CULT WHEN IT WILL GO BACK FROM THE NOTHING IT COMES FROM... ALSO BECAUSE IT IS WORTHLESS... (And without God you are more worthless then the believers... that is simple the true). Why godless alone people are obsessed with God?? and talk about him more then a believer? Well for many reason.... 1) About that BS called atheism there is not much things to say, no value, no sacred things and and it leads to nothing. 2 And then because they know they are so many godless alone people that will run to kiss their ass... 3 they do that so this cult can be alive, otherwise is destined to vanish, exactly from the nothing it comes... because is nothing but a cult that has nothing to offer to us and neither to the godless alone people who belonged to 4 And finally this cult will be vanished without those videos and those godless alone people will be just alone. And who said the opposite is a godless alone hypocrite. This cult called atheism is so empty... And those godless alone people really have nothing to offer to themselves. They have less sacred things then us... what an idiots they are for that too. Let's hope in a better generation because this is so lost. You are into an empty cult that leads you nowhere... No respect for you, godless ass kisser.... You really left God to put BS and emptiness in your miserable Life. No Pity for you. (God is always you do not know)..... We need to move to a better generation, and Hope godless alone people like you will not exist anymore in the future (you are worthless your cult called atheism). What you realised that Atheism is just an empty cult? That Have nothing to offer to you, or to the humanity? It leads to nowhere? To the Obsession for God? For Christianity? That there is not comfort on it??? And that live and die as an alone godless person is not the best you can have? Just as have the idea that once you die you will be Nothing (and Nothing you are now, as you become what you think you will be once death) is not the best for your mental and psychological stability? Or have sacred things (as other people have) and you do not (such God) is so idiot that you are rething about everything and start to believe that Atheism is not but a BS, and a trap you are in???? They are patethic and worthless as their empty cult called atheims, which will not lead them anywhere, but a alone godless desperate life that they will never admit it. No respect for them. THAT IS JUST AN EMPTY CULT, AND WHEN IT AND THOSE GOLDESS WORTHELSS SOULESS PEOPLE WILL BE BACK TO THE NOTHING THEY COME FROM, NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT. NO RESPECT FOR THEM AND THEIR NO SENSE CULT (godless ass kisser, wirth no dignity)... THEY BRING EMTPTYNESS as their cult called atheism... Shame on them and their desperation.... Anyway only a pathetic person can learn something from someone who explain you a thing obsessively that does not even believe... (with videos that are not helpful for their life...) WHAT AN EMPTY NOSENSE MODERN CULT YOU ARE TRAPPED IN, AND YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF........ Atheism is just empty BS, but those godless alone people are so sad to do not get... Let's hope in the new generation, this one is so lost, and none will cry when their worthelss atheism will be over. Your wortheless empty Atheism is dragging you to the nothing it give to youy (and to us) but you are too pathetic (as atheism) to get it. No rpesct for you godless assk kisser. No respect for you Godenier... You just worth as your atheims: 0. For real what an empty cult... when this worthelss cult will be over none will complain... Our faith is much stronger then your empty BS. Deal with it. (it is far bettre to be a God believer, then a godless alone person as you in an emoty cult that does not give us and even to you anything)
You’d think that an all-knowing god who “made” everything would’ve been able to dictate a book that people in every generation could understand and would apply to correctly.
what does this even mean? and if He didnt make everything what do you believe the explanation is? cause js using common sense theres way more of a chance that the universe was designed by a creator, not just existed from nothing randomly. and going off that (so now assuming there is SOME god) would Christianity not be the one true religion? because basing it off things like historical accuracy and all that it matches up by far the most
How so? If you ask someone else this would be weird to use the Bible as standing book of facts. That's dogma? Most people didn't write for long periods of time in human history. Their beliefs as good in the hand of politicians of ideas. This yet argues against Male and Female but that it has to be adapted to what people believe. Which isn't how factual information works.
@@rohanking12able No, it's a collection of stories, mythis, and writings. Some of which are definitely rooted in facts, others less so. But that's how old books and mythologies work.
I grew up with a close friend at church and school, who was gay, and loved Jesus and God, and I always felt God created this person and that person, and loves them, plus Jesus never making it an issue, really opened me and my unconditional love. It never mattered, you are who you are. I was a very accepting person, and that was important to me with walking in love and acceptance. I love to dance and preferred going to the gay clubs to dance, when saved me from dealing with guys I didn't want to. And I especially loved the happy loving cool atmosphere there. I can't wipe the smile off my face. When I discovered that my middle child was hermaphrodite/intersexed, having both sex organs of both, (male on the outside and female on the inside), I knew that God knew I was perfect to be her/his mom. And in the broader spectrum, if God makes some people with both sexes, which I consider the third sex, then it opens the acceptance, love and understanding for the various different people. In a nutshell. Hahaha. I also explained to my child that in ancient history, in many places, that hermaphrodites were considered to be special and sent from God(or the gods) and the angels, because they were usually considered to be both. 💜✌️👍😊
I'm glad that you love your child the way she/he is and even as a non-Christian, I can see your faith as something very positive because you share love and not hate. I wish you and your family all the best. 💜
"There is no reading without context" - Jennifer Knust. Great interviews, thank you so much. May we all read the Bible as it is: a collection of books written at different times, for different audiences, by different authors trying to make different - sometimes conflicting - points.
It doesn’t make sense for a passage to be condemning sexual violence if there’s a “lesser of 2 evils” cop out. Also were Lot’s daughters not “under his protection? Also also why wasn’t Lot punished for his sin while his wife was punished for a sin she didn’t know she was committing?
I was bored and browseing the comments and just wrote something, ignore it or not. The reason for the wife do become salt is that later in the text Lot gets fucked/raped by his daugthers because they want to have children and no other men are arround and the wife would disturb the daugther father action. Also there is no talk about sin the wife dosen´t even get a name, she just becomes salt after looking back to the city Sodom while running away from danger (and that is interpreted as a sin as far as i know, but in that case it makes sence that only she gets punished because only she looks back). The bible is a conceptualization of litature, very misogynist litature is also good answer to point 3. The narrative concludes that both the Ammonites and Moabites are the result of incest, since the daughters make their father drunk and come to him in that state (Genesis 19:31-38). But i have to say to your first point: Also we’re Lot’s daughters not “under his protection?. Yes they were but in the early iron age near east not getting your guest raped was more important then your daughters. Again they were not feminist back then and in the context of the time the passage is makeing perfect sence and is in that way condemning sexual violence. Do not read it with modern day eyes that would be a ahistorical treatment of texts out of the middel eastern iron age. In case you found that moronic, i agree somewhat if you just come from a todays perspective and that is the rason why you read the bible like liature not different to the Gilgamesh Epic or the Aeneid or a story about some Saint out of the middel ages or Robin Hood stories or The Lord ot the Ring universe. It should not infrom todays politics in anyway anywhere at anytime. Goodbye and all the best.
Because it was seen as a sacrifice - his daughters were things he owned and giving them to protect guests must be like 'giving two fingers or a hand'. They were not persons of their own in this culture. It's immoral from our perspective, but not for them.
I am so excited to hear this video! I grew up fundamentalist evangelical and now value scientific literacy highly, and I think that's why your channel appealed to me. I never knew what to do about same sex sexual dreams or that my friends were all coming out, and it took until I was an adult to come to terms with my own strong and open sexuality. I really appreciate your content and am very interested in this topic. as well as knowing that it took a lot of effort and contacting and coordinating and editing to put it all together
I’m so glad you find this valuable! Making educational content like this is healing for me. Now that I can learn as much as I want, I never want to stop.
@@earthangelbaby_ It built Western civilization, invented the modern scientific method, engineering, the hospital and university system, and developed the concept of universal human rights among other things. If this information is new to you, you're welcome.
Whether the bible is read in it's original context or univocally or whatever doesn't matter, God's word or whatever text or medium is being used to convey his message to his followers, should either be updated by God every century or 2 to make sure it is understood in its intended context and meaning or, like in the case of our current time, be expected to be read with our current understanding of the language used in the message written thousands of years ago. It is not the fault of the followers for misunderstanding if no effort is placed in updating or reiterating God's message by God. It doesn't matter how it's supposed to be read, it matters how the majority of the people reading are interpreting what is being read. These days the bible is largely interpreted as homophobic as anti trans as misogynistic and more. The message for followers is that these people are going to hell, these people need to be corrected or are mentally ill or they are evil and have embraced the devil. For non believers who are homosexual or women or trans this message largely means avoid believers whenever possible to keep safe from them.
@@cosmictreason2242 except the bible is not clear nothing about it is clear, if it were clear then there wouldn't be debate over it's interpretations, meanings and translations. there wouldn't be 1000 christian denominations if the bible was clear. If God's message to the world was clear from the beginning to now there would be no other religion but God's religion in whatever shape or form that may look like.
@@kevinreaper2932 false claim. The meaning is not debatable, there is controversy because people don't want to accept the clear meaning. Is there political debate ONLY because reps/dems don't UNDERSTAND what the other side is advocating for, or because they do, and don't WANT it? Be honest with yourself. You won't fool me.
@@cosmictreason2242 the true meaning or the true intended meaning is not debatable like all things objective are not debatable. What is debatable about the meaning is whether or not we know what that true intended meaning is we can make educated guesses based off what is known of the times it was written and what we know of the writer but it's so long ago we can't interview or talk to these people and know what they intended to mean by what they wrote. So you still have not convinced me that an update is not needed.
Gotta love all those confirmation bias videos getting millions of views within days of posting, but as soon as any criticism or accuracy comes into the picture you get a banger like this with far fewer views than it NEEDS.
Yeahhhhh people typically prefer easy answers to the most complex questions, and lots of content creators are happy to prey on that for views unfortunately. I’m so glad you appreciate this video!
Great video. It's weird though that, after I've left the Bible behind as a part of a very difficult internal struggle, it's an atheist channel drawing me back in. I get why this topic is important, but it's certainly not an easy one for me to revisit. That said, these interviews were excellent.
@@Lerian_V no, I was raised in the lie you call Christianity. Whatever you have for me, I've seen it twice and grown bored. You're doing a terrible job of evangelizing your faith here. Taunting people is a way to put them OFF, not bring them in
As a pan and genderfluid person who used to be strictly Christian, im glad i found you. You helped me word the questions id been having for years, but told to never to ask. I have realized that its braver to face an uncaring universe, than to defend an "omni-benevolent" god. It sounds so alluring, but i know its not true. We only have eachother, and its bettet to see it for what it really is. We are alone, and we cant change that. Yet, i take solice in solitude, for we have done so much.
@@The_Legend_Himself Pan referring to pansexual meaning the person is attracted to people regardless of sex / gender, while genderfluid meaning that the person sometimes identify as a specific gender, but then changes over time into another gender hence the term 'fluid' as fluids don't stay the same shape
So it wasn't "no being gay" it was actually "no bottoming if you're a man".😂 So the cowgirl position was equally "unnatural" to men being gay, to men being submissive in any kind of sex in general. Dominatrixes were out as was any anal penetration for men regardless of who was doing it. Which I'm pretty sure is why the Missionary position is the missionary position.
See Ed Oxford. He proves the prohibition against homosexuality was actually a prohibition against pederasty - the use of 8-12 year old boys as women. Which in the context of the times on which Leviticus (the original book in which the prohibition appears - Paul took from Leviticus, fairly reasonable given he was originally Jewish) of a new settled farmer way of living - having to watch flocks at night to protect their herds from predators - makes a lot of sense. Once 13, the boy was considered to be a man. Most people would agree with a prohibition on pederasty. In actual fact, most of the issue stems from mistranslation from the original Hebrew or Greek writings.
I’ve always said that we cannot trust modern interpretations of ancient languages because it depends on how the translations interpreted these languages to begin with. Also, some of these biblical stories are oral histories of supposed previous happenings. How can I trust either the translations, interpretations, or retelling when you can’t even play a game of Telephone and get an accurate repetition of the original phrase? Never mind, bringing in the arguments about the compilation of the Bible itself hundreds of years after the lives of the multiple authors.
Its such a shame that we have so little writing from gay and bisexual folks from ancient times. We don't know if gay people 2000 years ago thought of their sexual interests as intrinsic like we do today, because history was written by the straight victors and religious leaders. So much LGBT history and sociology lost, and its absence fuels modern bigotry.
@@cosmictreason2242 You're right, that is a possibility. It's a good thing we have a huge body of evidence showing that there aren't categorical differences between gay and straight relationships in terms of relationship satisfaction, rates of abuse, outcomes of their kids, likelihood of their kids being gay, etc, and that disparities in mental health conditions are accounted for by discrimination. There are asexual gay couples, which would be impossible if gay behaviour was purely sexual. The relationships of gay people have vastly more in common with the relationships of straight people than they do with the casual sexual interactions of people with kinks. I'm a bisexual guy and my attraction and feelings to men and women feel pretty much the same, it's not like one feels pure, loving and sacred and the other feels lustful, tempting and perverse. You can believe what you want, but you do so in rejection of all evidence, and likely in denial of the real experiences of any queer people in your life. You have been lied to by religious and/or media figures to keep your adherence to your cultural in-group strong by hating a caricature of an other. Your gut level disgust at seeing queer relationships is understandable, after all it's not like straight relationships are the most appealing thing to gay people. Spend some time listening to gay people talk about their lives. If you have any gay friends, ask to hear about their experiences and listen without judgement. It doesn't take much to pop the bubble and realise that we're just people.
@@cosmictreason2242Well, mountains of psychiatric, neuroscientific, psychological, and sociological evidence points very strongly away from that, so we can safely dismiss it
One woman makes the first mistake, and the Forgiving and Loving God says, "well, guess every woman is fucked now" 29:56 Love that the first human was non-binary! Why is that not brought up more?!
Tattoo. My grandfather served in the Navy in WWI. He got the Navy seal tattooed on his forearm as many did. When he got out, he went to seminary and became a pastor. Because of that passage, he wore only long-sleeved shirts for some 70 years until his death.
I don't understand that for religious people. Either Jesus died for all your sins or he didn't. You can't hide a tattoo from an omnipotent god with fabric. And to care so much that the congregation can't be allowed to see something that they all say they believe their god has long forgiven without all hell breaking loose or something. It's really sad
People make a fuss about tattoos and stuff but on the other hand eat pork and come with far off explainations why that rule doesn't apply to christians anymore 😂
@@NeurosenkavalierEmilSinclair It really isn't that far off. Jews eat Kosher to this day primarily to sanctify themselves from other nations while they wait for the Messiah, I say this as someone who grew up Jewish and was told this by my Jewish family. However, since the Messiah already came, laws intended to sanctify the Hebrews are no longer necessary, like the law about tattoos.
Today Jesus would have asked the Pharisees “where is the dude?” If the woman committed adultery, she didn’t do it alone. The man was equally culpable. He got off Scott free. Not fair.
While most poetry is symbolic, mine leans toward literal. I assume that's because I'm autistic and tend to see the world through very literal eyes. This has been incredibly educational, so I shared with all of my Christian friends/fam on facebook. Now I just hope it makes them less homophobic.
I clicked on this out of some strange form of masochism, assuming it was gonna be some awful “what is a woman?” Adjacent type thing but what I got instead was a genuinely interesting and insightful conversation about gender and sexuality in the Bible- amazing work friend, you’ve got yourself a new follower!
the issue i have with saying the real issue with the soddom and gammorah story is rape is that the story seems to prefer rape of women by men more than rape of men by women. thats pretty disgusting
The two "angels" who visited Sodom = Zeus and Hermes. Zeus is the one who orders the floods. Do not make this god angry, for he will lite you up with his lightning bolt and slam you with his thunderbolt. For desert, he will drown you in a flood.
And disturbing. But I don’t know if it’s unexpected. It’s still more likely to happen that way today, so from a literary perspective, it at least tracks with the norm, disgusting as that norm is.
This runs with the part mentioned earlier (and re-mentioned later), that in that period women were thought to be lesser than men, or imperfect men. This is, thankfully, no longer a normal belief, at least in western society (which I say due to insufficient information to other "societies", I guess I'll call them. I find it likely most members of most of these "other societies" would agree with western society on this).
You missed the point where the angels didn't let lot do it. And he was evidently influenced by his society to think that seemed like a good idea. Besides that protecting guests was a HUGE cultural deal then, and stillstill is in Arabia today, see for example the story of Lone Survivor. When a woman was raped in a similar situation in judges 19, it was still seen as a horrific evil
The thing about nature is that it doesn't do binaries, only spectrums. Gender identity and gender presentation are spectrums, with female and male being the extremes. Edit: Hello people in the comments! I appreciate the debate on gender that's going on and it's very informative. However, I'd like to remind all the people defending me and my post to not feed the trolls. Acherontia66 is a major troll whose description literally says "Your opinion means very little to me..." Rather than engaging in arguing, I encourage you all to just ignore or report their comments if they're harassing you. Good faith discussions can only happen if both sides go into the discussion with an open mind. Acherontia66 is very clearly close-minded. Please do not waste your time, energy, or effort on them. Peace & Love.
@TheWandererOfDreams Lol, I just finished reading an article where it states people Ike you who try to use intersex as a copout have nothing to offer the discussion. Intersex is not the norm. It is abnormal. The same way that if someone is born without legs. That doesn't mean that in nature, people aren't born with two legs and are supposed to have 2 legs. Cry harder. Intersex people still have only one dominant and functional sexual organ. Try again.
@@DeltaH-9do you see the problem with your argument? Just saying wrong doesn’t offer a reason why. Here’s my argument against you using your own logic: “Lol, nature doesn’t do binaries? Wrong.” Wrong
@@TheWandererOfDreams "A Biologist Explains Why Sex Is Binary" In an effort to confuse the issue, gender ideologues cite rare ambiguous ‘intersex’ cases. Wall street journal, read the article. Get an education.
I used to be Christian because I WAS BORN INTO IT. IT WAS NEVER A CHOICE. After seeing the sheer lack of empathy, complacency with abuse and how idealistic the adherents were I decided I want no parts. The simple fact that most people don’t acknowledge or actively condemn sexual abuse and misconduct is why I will never identify with any abrahamic religion. In my opinion they have a very immature view of sexuality and sex in general. They have all sort of expectations of what sex is supposed to be but many don’t understand the concept of consent. The treatment of women is something I will never get behind. I have come to know that people are good people not because of religious dogma but because they choose to be good people. Much of my experience is that there is lack accountability and responsibility for people in power but they get all the glory, Lack of critical thinking, superiority complex, saviour/martyr complex and glorification of suffering is damaging and is always present within the collective psyche. Also the idea that a book that was written tens if not hundreds of thousands of years after humanity had already existed and is supposed to encompass all the experiences that make up humanity is a lie. The idea that their God/Jesus loves everyone is a lie. And they know that. That why they try and find fault and condemn normal human behaviours to make the try hardship within their groups seem more superior because even if they cannot repress themselves enough to be “perfect” they are trying and God knows their heart. I find that whenever I enter Christian spaces I always fall into a deep depression because I know inherently I am not enough so I always have to mask who and what I truly am. Also the Christians that proclaim their religion is about love need to look at their commandments and stop lying. Christians love people that act and think like them. This is the same with any other religion/popular cults.
another amazing video. Just got my access for the conference and cant wait! After deconstructing for quite some time, I've been looking into going back to school for religious studies but wanted other insight from scholars on any topic other than ones I've been deep diving into off gut instincts. Honestly is such perfect timing!
Isn't it also true that the original text in Hebrew more accurately translates to 'men shall not lay with boys', condeming the abuse of power that comes from one partner being substantially older and often times more powerful, rather than two similarly aged same sex relationships?
On the points made on the Pauline texts in the third interview regarding marriage and womens roles: I highly recommend a book called "The Making of Biblical Womanhood" that disputes those "know your place" kind of passage interpretaions. It goes so far as to point out that Paul was speaking to women directly as opposed to the roman tradition of only speaking to the men in the audience. He also uses feminine language to refer to the congregation something radical then. A quote from early romans who just finished executing 2 women christians who were preaching in the streets claimed that these christians where sexual perverts allowing women to take lead over men. Many different ways to view paul and not get the kind of gender roles that people get out of it.
I believe early Christianity wasn't sexist, but it has been hijacked and corrupted by romans (especially after it became an official religion of rome) and many of the principles are taught since.
Reading Paul as an ace person, I always got the impression he was asexual and thus had no context for actual sex drive, thus held everyone to his own standard failing to realize his own standards might not be the norm.
@@midnightsan9917 right? When you don’t know it's a possibility the whole sex drive thing does seem like an exaggeration to someone not experiencing it. So solutions like ‘why don’t you just not, and if you absolutely must get married’ can seem like good advise. I’m sex positive in mind set and indifferent in practice and even I sometimes think the drive cannot be that bad, they must be exaggerating when I read romance novels 😂 but you have to give the prevalence and consistency in description some credit so I’ll take the word of those who experience it.
@@BowlOSoup6661 You are not created from the kidney of another person during a transplant. Eve was created from Adam’s rib. Your comparison is invalid.
@@BowlOSoup6661eve didn't get a rib transplant, she is a genetic clone of Adam, her whole body is only made of Adams genes and no one else's. She is a 1:1 of Adam, she is genetically the same as Adam, supposedly, a male.... Or they are both intersex witch would be the most genetically logical, and them being identified as man and women proves that gender snd sex are seperate....
I am a Christian, studying for my masters of theology and I love your work! It is refreshing to see a sceptic that has en emphasis on respect, while always having a great argument to back up a criticism. As this video also posits, many Christians are open to and appreciate you kind of content in apposing quacks and unreflectedly held beliefs. 😊
"yeah yeah, I'm surprised Jesus hasn't returned but please tell me more about your flying machines and hot pockets. Jesus had kept us waiting 2000 years, he can wait a little longer."
@@BenjaminWalburn When Jesus returns if he returns his people will kill him again because chances are just like last time he will come bringing instruction that goes against the established self serving way and of course we know full well Christian conservatives of which tend to hold the most power don't like to change hence why we are in this sex and gender war for the sex and gender war is about change.
I had heard that Paul was referring to pedophilia in his case against homossexuality, but I had no idea it went through that many interdisciplinary layers to be able to clearly explain it. It makes a lot of sense that he would be more familiar to these concepts on homossexuality, since some of the people that followed him were Greek - I believe that was the case with Markus or Luke, I forgot which one of them it was - and the belief that this sort of relationship was okay would've been extremely near to him, like the sort of thing he'd hear regularly. Thank you for the video!
Have you talked to any scholars about the serpent in the garden of Eden being the devil? One thing that kept happening, when I was still a christian, was that I would bring up that I didn't think the serpent was the devil because it was clearly treated like it's own being and punished as Adam and Eve were. I was southern baptist and churches would often present it as the devil tricking Eve. I always felt like this was a way for christians to feel like... It's not our fault, we were tricked... and it perpetuated this "The devil made me do it" mentality that I saw in alot of christians. It would just be interesting to get a scholar's view on what scholars think about it, and how it became the devil.
if it was its own being then those same people would have the mentality that "the serpent made me do it", i dont really think the issue is caused by that but rather those individuals. people like that will find any excuse for their actions they possibly can
Unfortunately yes. As a Christian this bothers me a lot, especially when the Bible is used to control women. I do believe the Bible comes from God but that doesn't mean we should expect absolute perfection because it was still written by human beings (men) who had their own culture and limitations. I think fundamentalists tend to worship the Bible instead of being 'in the Spirit' and worshipping God, using discernment etc.
Great video and great interviews, but I'm particularly fond of Dr. Jennifer Knust after watching this. I love her enthusiasm and her inquisitive approach. Such insightful remarks! She seems to be a fantastic teacher. I'd love to see more!
Im not sure if youre trying to use this as a way to stop the push against homosexuality, but personally if for example i had a friend who was taking drugs i wouldnt tell him to keep going because hes my friend, on the contrary, i would care about him and tell him to stop. Its that simple
@@OakenTome No, theyre not equal. But its still the same thing, as in if a friend is doing something detrimental to themselves you tell them to stop. There are stories of men becoming gay after years of being married to women. You can not tell me you are 100% born with it.
I haven’t watched the whole thing, but “Paul thought it wasn’t natural for men to have long hair” is the funniest fucking thing considering, ya know Jesus
I love these interviews because so many evangelicals love to pretend that their particular theological position is the only valid one as well as being the consensus across the board. If you ever want to talk about the intersection of religion and climate change I recommend reaching out to professor Timothy Beal 🖤
“Being gay is a sin and Jesus died for our sins, which means Jesus died for the gays. So if you don’t support the gays, then Jesus died for nothing, and you are putting shame to his name. Amen, and God bless the gays.”
Edit: note I'm not a Christian but an ex-OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis) initiate (quit after about a decade) who professed to be (in part) Gnostic but in reality had very little Gnosticism in it. I'm not a Gnostic either. I'm just me and I like studying history and philosophy. My metaphysical perspective is closest to a mix of Plotinus' Neoplatonism and Discordianism. I'm also gender queer if that matters. I highly recommend the Wondrium (Formly The Great Courses Plus, formly The Teachers Company) production on Gnosticism which is more about varieties of Early Christianities. This guy at the beginning sorta knows what he's talking about but Dr. David Brakke does a fantastic job talking about what early Christians thought of gender. I'm just starting this video so I wonder if this will come up: For example, this excerpt from The Gospel of Thomas (discovered in 1945 written somewhere in the 1st to 2nd century) would be understood very differently by different kinds of different Christians, different kinds of Gnostic Christians etc (1) Jesus saw infants being suckled. (2) He said to his disciples: “These little ones being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom.” (3) They said to him: “Then will we enter the kingdom as little ones?” (4) Jesus said to them: “When you make the two into one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside and the above like the below - (5) that is, to make the male and the female into a single one, so that the male will not be male and the female will not be female - (6) and when you make eyes instead of an eye and a hand instead of a hand and a foot instead of a foot, an image instead of an image, (7) then you will enter [the kingdom].”
@@Linkolink_X3 I have but it seems you only read to check a box and not to understand. God says your heart is far from him and your lip service is only ever that.
LET'S BE CLEAR TO THOSE GODLESS ALONE PEOPLE... WE ARE JUST TIRED OF YOU TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU DO NOT EVEN BELIEVE;as obsessed idiots. That why they always come here "saying they were Christian", or "Saying personal stuff about themselves" or "Saying something superficial" or "Makes stupid jokes" or "Laugh as stupids" (They do that because they have less secret things in their miserable life)... As be a Christian or a believer makes you have more to have more precious things in your live, and much worst to be a godless and soulless desperate (alone) idiot. But any way... LET'S STQART AND SHOW HOW MUCH NONE WILL MISS THOSE PEOPLE AN THEIR EMPTY CULT WHEN IT WILL GO BACK FROM THE NOTHING IT COMES FROM... ALSO BECAUSE IT IS WORTHLESS... (And without God you are more worthless then the believers... that is simple the true). Why godless alone people are obsessed with God?? and talk about him more then a believer? Well for many reason.... 1) About that BS called atheism there is not much things to say, no value, no sacred things and and it leads to nothing. 2 And then because they know they are so many godless alone people that will run to kiss their ass... 3 they do that so this cult can be alive, otherwise is destined to vanish, exactly from the nothing it comes... because is nothing but a cult that has nothing to offer to us and neither to the godless alone people who belonged to 4 And finally this cult will be vanished without those videos and those godless alone people will be just alone. And who said the opposite is a godless alone hypocrite. This cult called atheism is so empty... And those godless alone people really have nothing to offer to themselves. They have less sacred things then us... what an idiots they are for that too. Let's hope in a better generation because this is so lost. You are into an empty cult that leads you nowhere... No respect for you, godless ass kisser.... You really left God to put BS and emptiness in your miserable Life. No Pity for you. (God is always you do not know)..... We need to move to a better generation, and Hope godless alone people like you will not exist anymore in the future (you are worthless your cult called atheism). What you realised that Atheism is just an empty cult? That Have nothing to offer to you, or to the humanity? It leads to nowhere? To the Obsession for God? For Christianity? That there is not comfort on it??? And that live and die as an alone godless person is not the best you can have? Just as have the idea that once you die you will be Nothing (and Nothing you are now, as you become what you think you will be once death) is not the best for your mental and psychological stability? Or have sacred things (as other people have) and you do not (such God) is so idiot that you are rething about everything and start to believe that Atheism is not but a BS, and a trap you are in???? They are patethic and worthless as their empty cult called atheims, which will not lead them anywhere, but a alone godless desperate life that they will never admit it. No respect for them. THAT IS JUST AN EMPTY CULT, AND WHEN IT AND THOSE GOLDESS WORTHELSS SOULESS PEOPLE WILL BE BACK TO THE NOTHING THEY COME FROM, NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT. NO RESPECT FOR THEM AND THEIR NO SENSE CULT (godless ass kisser, wirth no dignity)... THEY BRING EMTPTYNESS as their cult called atheism... Shame on them and their desperation.... Anyway only a pathetic person can learn something from someone who explain you a thing obsessively that does not even believe... (with videos that are not helpful for their life...) WHAT AN EMPTY NOSENSE MODERN CULT YOU ARE TRAPPED IN, AND YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF........ Atheism is just empty BS, but those godless alone people are so sad to do not get... Let's hope in the new generation, this one is so lost, and none will cry when their worthelss atheism will be over. Your wortheless empty Atheism is dragging you to the nothing it give to youy (and to us) but you are too pathetic (as atheism) to get it. No rpesct for you godless assk kisser. No respect for you Godenier... You just worth as your atheims: 0. For real what an empty cult... when this worthelss cult will be over none will complain... Our faith is much stronger then your empty BS. Deal with it. (it is far better to be a God believer, then a godless alone person as you in an emoty cult that does not give us and even to you anything).
Oh, def. It's like God has a fandom made up of all these factions who all interpret his character and philosophy a different way and feel the need to live by that exact philosophy they perceive. Sorta like when you get shounen fans that hit the gym 'cause the main character seemed addicted to training. But obviously it's more... all encompassing and possibly with graver consequences.
Sign up for the New Insights into the New Testament Conference:
gmskeptic--ehrman.thrivecart.com/nint2023/
😊
I sooooo want to come to this conference but it's just too expensive for me. As a philosopher, I've always been so fascinated with the opinions and positions of biblical scholars who still remain Christian. They frequently have some of the most nuanced takes and far more compelling reasons for their beliefs and faith. Ugh! I bet this is gonna be amazing.
Eve was trans!
God took Adam's presumably XY rib, did some --magic-- miracles on it and popped out a clone with the ability to have kids.
Memes aside that was a neat insight about Adam being non-binary before Eve and the apple.
I would imagine you have to make a 2 hour long video explaining this. Because the bible says precisely nothing about gender since that's a term that was invented 5 minutes ago to describe people's mental delusions 😮
What it really says: gender doesn't exist. Sexual orientation doesn't exist. Gender identity doesn't exist. There is only the binary sexual ontology. And what you do and how you feel must be submitted to the objective reality of what you are. Your feelings and fancies are irrelevant to the facts, because these are corrupted by your sinful desires and depraved mind.
The ancients really said: "there are two genders-- top and bottom."
"You can't be a switch! You have to pick one!"
"What if we're both laying on our sides?"
*Angry NPC.jpg*
Based. Very uncomplicated. Perhaps too much.
Switches are gender fluid
@@EveryDooDarnDiddlyDay connect the ends and we have achieved perfect equality 🙏🧘
Clarifying that some passages dont hate the gays, they just hate women has me 💀
Baby steps, okay?
Yeah... there is a reason queer liberation and feminism are such good friends.
@@n0etic_f0x Sadly terfs also exist
@@ThyRetroNerd I don’t consider TERFs feminists. If they can’t even realize trans women are women they are incapable of fighting for the equality of women.
This is why it is utterly, irresponsible and foolish to the extreme, to hold these backward, sick, savage and senseless cultures up as paragons of justice, fairness and truth, and attempt to graph them upon the modern age and modern way of thinking. Yes, we have so, so, many things to get right today, still, as we continue to be a work in progress; but we are doing so, so, many things BETTER, too, than they did in these times, and have such a far, deeper understanding of pretty much, absolutely, everything compared to the understanding of these times. So what thinking person, in their right mind, would SERIOUSLY, want to haul us back to these times and this way of thinking. This has never made any logical sense to me, at all, what-so-ever.
Warmest Wishes. Be Well and Safe. Out. 🙂🖐🏼😔
Hearing a respected scholar say "There are a lot of scholars who are huge fans of your work, just so you know" must be such a hugely affirming thing. So many people in the comments on these videos talk about how enlightening and encouraging this type of discourse is, and how refreshing it is to see someone so humbly inspiring civility in discourse, encouraging people to generate light rather than heat; hearing that these respected scholars whose works center around this very thing, must be very affirming and encouraging for this channel and its host, and I'm personally glad to see it.
Absolutely! Especially since I don’t have formal education in this (outside my Bible classes from my evangelical university), it’s very affirming that I’m not out of my depth when doing interviews. Now I’ve really got to be on my best behavior because I know there are some scholars watching lol
Light comes from heat.
@@absoutezeo2126 Rhetorical language is, by design, not literal.
@@absoutezeo2126 light can be created by other means than just heat, bioluminescence for example
@@absoutezeo2126 I think technically it'd be more accurate to say that heat comes from light since all heat is is the transfer of infrared radiation which is a form of light
I remember when my parents divorced, my mother came out as a lesbian. My father used our church as a weapon. The pastor of our church literally asked me to come to the stage at which point he turned me to the audience and had everyone pray to free me of the hold of Satan that was upon me from my sinner mother. I NEVER believed anything any church has said since. I was 8 years old. It was the most humiliating experience I've ever felt.
I am so sorry for you! 😭 that sounds tortuous.
I remember being 8 years old, in my aunt's Pentecostal church for the very first time, and my uncle (her brother) who was sick, needing a heart and lung transplants for a rare chronic illness. They took him on stage, in his wheelchair, and started literally screaming in tongues, hands all over him, aggressively, people falling over and everything. I never had felt so scared of adults before.
I can't imagine if I were the one on stage, as they pitied me and belittled my mother... my heart goes out to you. 🥺
@cassicampbell1033 oh dear! My sincerest apologies for "humanity" doing that to your family at such a horribly vulnerable time. On one hand it makes people see how crazy it all is, on the other hand it shouldn't be happening in the first place. Thank you for your kind words, it's just nice seeing there's people out there who see through it.
And Christians want people to take them seriously when they cannot address issues within the Church that causes these bigoted rituals. And this is not all too dissimilar of an experience a friend of mine had in his church, but instead it was him who came out and his parents who were grossly religious.
@@polygondeath2361 That's definitely true, but you must also not base your views on us as a whole based on a few outliers. I've never in my entire life seen a Christian genuinely being rude to someone for believing in something else. Don't believe everything the mainstream media tells you.
Have a good day.
@@BowlOSoup6661 no, I will. Silence is violence. Especially with an organization as large and as powerful as any one of the notable christian denominations. If I don’t see you actively combatting corruption, hate, and fascism in your community, while others participate, then you are no better than them.
I literally just watched an incredibly, painfully transphobic sermon from my old pastor, so this was exactly what i needed 😭
I can only imagine what kind of nonsense he said, probably something like: "men are male and women are female" or something else as equally hateful and stupid.
@@lancewalker2595Someone stated that they were experiencing pain and your response was sarcastic invalidation. That's important information to know about yourself.
If you are still Christian and would like affirming sources, Ed Trevors is good about saying affirming statements briefly.
Like facts are hateful now ?@@lancewalker2595
It's just facts. Facts can be painful. Like when you know that someone you love is gone... WTF ?
Are we in the Teletubbies here ?
Invalidation of what ? That you can't become the opposite sex by chopping parts of your body ?
Are you trolling ?
@@freudianslip000
As a heathen myself, it truly brightens my day to know Christians like you exist. Here in Arizona I'm surrounded by "Christians" walking around with scripture in their mouths and hate in their hearts. Christians like you really need to retake what it means to be Christian. The God I once knew is full of love and compassion. Not the hateful one that's causing your religion to dwindle year by year. Keep up the fantastic work
I’m an atheist, but I feel this way about the scholars I interviewed. They’re wonderful, thoughtful, compassionate people. We need more folks like them.
Dude. I left the church I used to go to and cut all contact with everyone because they were homophobes. That church is currently struggling and is understaffed (due to constant turnover). Most people respond to love, not hate. 😊
Hate against the transgender perverts is completely justified, it has nothing to do with religion
whats wrong with "scripture in their mouths" ? also i do agree that a lot of 'christians' (in america especially) just use random out of context bible verses to try and justify hate but idk bout the idea of 'retaking what it means to be a Christian.' could you explain more like what you meant by that? cause i may have misinterpreted but it sounded like changing what Christianity is which ion fw personally, if it meant something more like going back to true Christianity and following what Jesus actually taught and trying to live life in Gods image rather than just using "christianity" as an excuse to live hateful lives without any remorse though then i do heavily fw it. also what you said near the end about "the God i once knew" and "the hateful one", that same God you once knew is still just as loving and compassionate, and that hateful one is satan pretending to be God. imo as a Christian (if it wasnt clear before) i think that a lotta supposed christians nowadays think just cause they go to church on sunday and have a cross in their bio that they can get away with being real hateful and that its because 'it says ___ in the bible' when really thats the devil in disguise and they know damn well that verse within context wouldnt be able to justify what they be saying whatsoever. also if it sounds like a bit of a stretch that thats truly the devil doing that, js think who else would actively want Christianity to dwindle down but satan, and that would be a good way for him to try and do that too by letting people believe that their ways of thinking align with what God would want that way they dont spend the time to question whether its right or not to act so hatefully. also my fault if i ranted a bit and ion know all that much about scripture and whatnot (learning though as i am only 15 got a lotta time left hopefully) so if some stuff i said seemed a bit inaccurate to what Jesus says please lmk. and thanks if you did read this whole thing! God loves you😊🙏
@@theotheagendashill818the perverts are in the church, and news flash, they aren’t trans
As a PK who is lesbian, deconstructing, and a religious studies major, I loved this one!👏🏻
LET'S BE CLEAR TO THOSE GODLESS PEOPLE... WE ARE JUST TIRED OF YOU TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU DO NOT EVEN BELIEVE;as obsessed idiots.
That why they always come here "saying they were Christian", or "Saying personal stuff about themselves" or "Saying something superficial" or "Makes stupid jokes" or "Laugh as stupids" (They do that because they have less secret things in their miserable life)... As be a Christian or a believer makes you have more to have more precious things in your live, and much worst to be a godless and soulless desperate (alone) idiot.
But any way... LET'S STQART AND SHOW HOW MUCH NONE WILL MISS THOSE PEOPLE AN THEIR EMPTY CULT WHEN IT WILL GO BACK FROM THE NOTHING IT COMES FROM... ALSO BECAUSE IT IS WORTHLESS... (And without God you are more worthless then the believers... that is simple the true).
Why godless alone people are obsessed with God?? and talk about him more then a believer? Well for many reason.... 1) About that BS called atheism there is not much things to say, no value, no sacred things and and it leads to nothing. 2 And then because they know they are so many godless alone people that will run to kiss their ass... 3 they do that so this cult can be alive, otherwise is destined to vanish, exactly from the nothing it comes... because is nothing but a cult that has nothing to offer to us and neither to the godless alone people who belonged to 4 And finally this cult will be vanished without those videos and those godless alone people will be just alone.
And who said the opposite is a godless alone hypocrite.
This cult called atheism is so empty... And those godless alone people really have nothing to offer to themselves.
They have less sacred things then us... what an idiots they are for that too.
Let's hope in a better generation because this is so lost.
You are into an empty cult that leads you nowhere... No respect for you, godless ass kisser.... You really left God to put BS and emptiness in your miserable Life. No Pity for you. (God is always you do not know)..... We need to move to a better generation, and Hope godless alone people like you will not exist anymore in the future (you are worthless your cult called atheism).
What you realised that Atheism is just an empty cult?
That Have nothing to offer to you, or to the humanity?
It leads to nowhere?
To the Obsession for God?
For Christianity?
That there is not comfort on it???
And that live and die as an alone godless person is not the best you can have?
Just as have the idea that once you die you will be Nothing (and Nothing you are now, as you become what you think you will be once death) is not the best for your mental and psychological stability?
Or have sacred things (as other people have) and you do not (such God) is so idiot that you are rething about everything and start to believe that Atheism is not but a BS, and a trap you are in???? They are patethic and worthless as their empty cult called atheims, which will not lead them anywhere, but a alone godless desperate life that they will never admit it. No respect for them. THAT IS JUST AN EMPTY CULT, AND WHEN IT AND THOSE GOLDESS WORTHELSS SOULESS PEOPLE WILL BE BACK TO THE NOTHING THEY COME FROM, NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT. NO RESPECT FOR THEM AND THEIR NO SENSE CULT (godless ass kisser, wirth no dignity)... THEY BRING EMTPTYNESS as their cult called atheism... Shame on them and their desperation....
Anyway only a pathetic person can learn something from someone who explain you a thing obsessively that does not even believe... (with videos that are not helpful for their life...) WHAT AN EMPTY NOSENSE MODERN CULT YOU ARE TRAPPED IN, AND YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF........ Atheism is just empty BS, but those godless alone people are so sad to do not get... Let's hope in the new generation, this one is so lost, and none will cry when their worthelss atheism will be over.
Your wortheless empty Atheism is dragging you to the nothing it give to youy (and to us) but you are too pathetic (as atheism) to get it. No rpesct for you godless assk kisser. No respect for you Godenier...
You just worth as your atheims: 0.
For real what an empty cult... when this worthelss cult will be over none will complain... Our faith is much stronger then your empty BS. Deal with it. (it is far better to be a God believer, then a godless alone person as you in an emoty cult that does not give us and even to you anything)
What's a PK? Peace keeper?
@@crashman27 a pastor’s kid 😇
I was too. Now a septic atheist. I felt lied too and almost felt into depression when i finally realized how much BS religions were. Just like the new woke movement is too... And guess what ?
The new kings made it up just like religions in the past. So yeah, sadly i see it gaining more and more traction because people are getting dumber and dumber... Religions are being replaced by ideology, i would've hoped that reason would replace it. Humans are useless creatures capable of extreme things good and bad. But it always sums up to 0.
The only reason i'm alive is because my kid is young, didn't ask to come to this world... But as soon as he doesn't need me anymore........ this "bigot" like you are thinking rn, is going back to the nothing he came from.
F this world.
If you gave me 200 guesses, I wouldn’t have made it to pastor’s kid.
Sending you good vibes for all that that dynamic must entail.
The fact that people argue that the Bible isn't misogynistic is mind numbingly infuriating. It really helped me deconstruct from Christianity entirely
It also addresses the fact that the way we understand patriarchy was a direct result of the woman's curse.
A very insightful and well-deserved book to read. Honestly, it has been one of my favorites this year alone.
@heyyitsjude absolutely agreed. both "the making of biblical womanhood" and "Jesus and john wayne" (by kristen kobes du mez) are excellent. i read them at the same time and it was like just taking a wrecking ball to the evangelical purity-based culture i grew up in, especially considering both women are still christians. the notions of patriarchy as a product of the fall and of the very hegemonic concept of "biblical womanhood" as something that modern patriarchy projected onto the text were very eye-opening to me.
Tis not The Bible itself, as it is ultimately a history book in its own way, rather it was the people who twisted or corrupted its words, or even added in extra-biblical or even apocryphal texts in atrocious attempts at shoehorning and dictating their personally flawed world-views onto other people because they couldn't accept either being wrong about The Word or even just simply A World where they aren't the one's in absolute authority or calling some form of shots!
@heyyitsjudeno the Bible is IS inherently misogynistic. The old testament and new testament’s original text that source the translations we have today are made by patriarchal men and spew plenty of misogynistic views on women.
Stop lying to yourself and defending the root ideology behind thousands of years of abuse of women. For ALL of Christian history women have had shame and purity culture and idea of “submission to men” forced on them. This has only changed in the last 70-60 years due to the rise of humanism.
Ah yes. I always want to yell at my propaganda teacher when he says that CaThOlIcS aReNt SeXiSt (my propaganda teacher is my religion teacher, I’m agnostic, but I go to a catholic high school)
"Younger boys weren't seen as men so it wasnt gay" really explains the catholic church...
oof.wav played in my head reading this
Ope there it is
😂
pfflrt
Now do Islam ....
As somebody that grew up without religion, I can't understand why people justify anything, let alone hate, from an ancient book.
A lot of it can be seen as a cult. They are groomed from a very young age to believe everything they are told. Do not sit back question or think about it just blind belief. It is actually really horrible if you grow up in that to get out
"As an ignorant person, i don't understand why people who know more than me would disagree with me on a point of controversy which i am wrong about due to my ignorance"
@@cosmictreason2242 It's not ignorance. They're just not religious
@@beans3977they certainly are, as are you, demonstrated by your refusal to acknowledge the obvious point being made
@@cosmictreason2242 And that point being?
So what I’m getting from this is, being gay isn’t a sin; being a *bottom* is a sin.
Bible condemns both
No, I don't think that was the point. Rather, some cultural behaviors (like a harmful use of power) are "sin." Other cultural behaviors, even though recently understood, may be commendable. Perhaps the Bible and other resources can help us see this point.
@@rickm.rogersphd9673 I was kidding. I don’t care what is and isn’t sin because I don’t believe in the Bible.
those darn bottoms !! 😡😡 /j
The Bible condemns all sin.
The main point of the Bible is that Jesus came to Earth to save us and that we cannot enter the kingdom of God (Heaven) without him.
As a nonbinary person i will henceforth only be referring to myself as “an androgynous earth critter”
EDIT: please stop engaging with the guy in the replies it’s not worth it I promise
I think I will too. I want to cross over firmly into fem territory but that kind of describes me right now anyway.
Yeah! That line hit me in the funny bone in such a wholesome way.
New they/them power level activated
I’m very open to fluid sexual self identification and I believe in equality, but I don’t understand the “nonbinary” identifier. I am usually the one to help my wife understand trans issues in a more positive accepting light, but I think the word trans means to transition from one thing to another, right? Or is it to be in a transitional state between two or more things? There are only two sexes, though yes sometimes the body presents as intersex. If gender as a social construct is imaginary, and sex is meant to be binary by nature so as to allow sexual reproduction, how can a person call themselves nonbinary? What does that mean? Is it like inventing a new sex and just deciding to call yourself that, unless you present as intersex and that’s what nonbinary means…?
@@HumanValor First, the adjective use of trans describes a person whose gender does not match that which was assigned at birth by a doctor's cursory examination of the child's genitals. The gender binary assumes one must be either male or female and there's nothing else even when someone realizes body ≠ gender.
Some of us don't fit into either one of those. Our gender is not either binary choice. Therefore non binary. It's that simple, though you perhaps should look at your assumptions about physical sex as well, it's not as simple as it appears at first glance.
I think this quote is interesting (@5:20) "It's not natural for men to have long hair..."
And then.... just about every representation I have ever seen of Jesus and many other biblical characters are portrayed with... long hair.
Whats up with that?
I think that just shows how thoroughly we project our cultural values onto the Bible!
@@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic It's like how most artistic depictions of Jesus show him to be white, even though he likely wouldn't be due to being from the Middle East.
Which begs the question about the Shroud whose guy has a long ponytail. Was he an observant Jew or not? Cutting of hair was detailed in the Torah (you know, as so much more urgent than that whole slavery foolishness).
@@ItsMoorbinTimeAlso he is always portrayed as a handsome man, when to my understanding Jesus was not physically attractive, specially because he would not have much hardship attracting a following if he looked how he is portrayed.
Oh, dude. I was raised evangelical, but my dad is part native american. I get called "gay" by that side of the family all the time. I've been with my wife for 12yrs. We have a 7yo girl together. I do pretty heterosexual stuff regularly, but my hair is long. So, I MUST be "gay". 😂
As a gay who grew up in the church these interviews were very enlightening to listen to. I find it interesting how it seems like a lot of these verses are actually about preserving masculinity and shame men who bottom. Interesting when bottom shaming is something that happens even in gay communities too.
Where my bottom allies at 😭
So five verses at most on homosexuality versus 900+ versus that address poverty. Which social issue is the Christian Right prioritizing?
They have become fascists.
The ones that let them keep pretending they're morally superior to some group.
This is a foolish argument.
There isn't a pushback against helping the poor.
However s0domy is celebrated and promoted.
If it is in the Bible even once then it is considered important to read. You also have to read with context of the situation too. But the fact that not even all of Jesus’ miracles made it into the Bible (John 21:25) would indicate that the fact homosexuality being mentioned as a sin 5 times as you would claim, is even more important for the people to know than to know of every single miracle Jesus did.
Look, I can tell based on your comment that you’re not a believer of the Bible. I don’t expect this to change your world view but the Bible is very clear in what it preaches. It 100% condemns homosexuality. You can call it morally unjust but you can’t sit here and try to say that it says homosexuality is an okie dokie thing either. I’d rather someone be an atheist than to be a bad Bible reader.
@@stephanlasley5781dude did you even watch the video? Or are you just here to not be a good Christian they/them and stir shit?
As an intersex and nonbinary individual who has been grappling with my own personal deconstruction of Christianity (as well as the compulsive desire to "fill the gap" that left me feeling somehow both hopelessly directionless, but also free for the first time in my life), I found this entire video to be fascinating and affirming in so many ways.
I'm also truly excited to share this with my father who is a Christian and absolutely adores hearing different perspectives on the abrahamic faiths and watching debates on similar subjects. I hope this might also open his eyes a bit more to the false weaponization of biblical passages, and allow him a bit more openness towards my presence and identity as a human being.
I’m glad you liked it! I hope it’s useful in conversation with your dad and any others who need a nudge toward complexity and compassion over dogma. ❤️
Hopefully he's serious enough about his studies that he isn't easily fooled by transparently apostate propaganda
I’m curious how you felt a direction from Christianity, and what it was to you.
I gave it up so early in my life that I don’t miss it, yet I do find that I have to decontaminate from cultural influences that are just steeped in Christian belief.
Without knowing what you actually mean about needing to fill the gap, I will take the risk of offering you a different perspective on your life.
Find a moral code that can carry you through any situation, and allows you to be the best you possible.
Define what you know and feel about religion and compare and contrast that with what you believe and feel outside of religious beliefs.
You don’t have to believe in nothing…you can choose to believe that you don’t know everything.
I’m not an atheist, and I’m not an agnostic. I have beliefs that incorporate my personal experiences, but I don’t force others to listen to them, or to adopt them. And I like science enough to test my beliefs against theory. But I also like deconstructing biblical text since our culture is so full of it. I actually think the genesis story is passed down knowledge put into words for unscientific people. For example, fluids are water and gases, and water and gases form solids…so separating the waters is a very basic way of describing formation of the forms of matter into things like gas clouds, stars, planets, comets, and everything else. And all matter has vibration…motion. A word is a vibration. The Bible saying that God said a word to start creation is a simple way to say that imparting motion into a system started the process, including starting the clock of measuring the change of state that occurs for time to be measured.
I think someone passed that information to us. Aliens, or a past advanced human society…IDK…but I like to think about it. I like to look at what others say, and look at archeological sites that don’t fit the timeline of the Bible influenced scholars.
I think there was a great flood…there is too much human made archeology being found under the water around the globe for there to not have been a huge influx of water into the oceans, meaning it wasn’t just localized flood events.
So, anyway…you get to choose what is interesting to you or not. You get to decide how far you let your imagination explore possibilities. And you get to decide how you should be the human who you are.
I hope you have the very best life possible! 🤗
@@Mulberrysmile For me, I was raised in a way that leaned quite heavily on the shame and guilt side of abrahamic religions. I grew up in constant fear of punishment from a god who I "knew" hated me for being born gay, trans, disabled, and intersex, I was quite literally a pariah within the church (which I was forced into against my will). On one hand, I was treated horribly for years and developed paranoia that I still struggle with to this day but, on the other, after years of having every part of myself diminished and drowned in shame I found the strict guidelines of organized religion to be a safe space. I didn't have to be a person, I just had to follow rules and be subservient, put others before myself at all times, deny myself joy and be a puppet for others. I wasn't truly a person. Once I broke through the conditioning I'd been under at 16, I was relinquished from the claws of a faith that had defined me as disgusting, abhorrent, and worthless since the day I was born... But I also found myself lost and afraid, unsure who I actually was beneath all of the church's expectations. I no longer had fear and shame to instruct me, I had to learn independently what it meant to be a human being on the cusp of adulthood with very little time to figure things out. In all honesty, I was utterly terrified. I even fell into another organized religion in a desperate attempt to have someone else control me again, it was a very unhealthy situation, but I have since then been able to sit in that place of unknowing and come to terms with it.
In the last six years, I learned that I do not need fear to tell me how to feel, I have my own opinions and morals that no god has the right to take away from me, and I deserve to be loved no matter the state my body exists in. My lovely girlfriend (who grew up abused by the same exact church I did) is an atheist, and we explore different concepts of the known universe together, without pressure to hold specific beliefs or knowledge. I'm learning to be content with not having every answer in the moment and discovering that, no matter what the church tried to tell me, I am worthy of life and I do not need to change to remain in this world. It's a difficult journey, but it's one I'm making stubbornly and without compromise for my safety anymore.
Also thank you so much for the kind and knowledgeable response, I'll take what you shared into account and use it as I further my journey of self.
Just out of curiosity, since you’re intersex and nonbinary would you consider yourself cisgender? :0 or do you feel like you’d be under the trans umbrella since you were likely raised in a binary way?
30:03
As a nonbinary person I will now be exclusively referring to myself as an androgynous critter
Yeah, I'm going to need some Androgynous Critter merch ASAP.
Earth Creature is the most nb name tbh 🍃✨
This comment need to be one of the top comments
@@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic nahh
carbon based lifeform is more nb imo
oF All the bullshit terminology generated by that vile queer religion modnernism the asiniine"non-binary" is by far and away the most asinine.In times past men spoke of the quick and the dead and you csn'y gry more binary than that. It is as if the loons of that vile religion modernism have invent ed yet another of their vast calendar of sins as binary-or perhaps that is just another of their strange orthodoxies which they also churn out almost by the hour.When I was young_ishabout a cetury ago tthry told us about something call binary fishing, so semingly one can fish for binaries There but two sexes actavus and paassavus or as the beings of the planet earth say men and women beings of the active and passive sex respectively.
I always find the historical context so fascinating. I was taught at Baylor that the passage in Corinthians addressing women's head scarves had a specific Greek context. In Greek culture, married women wore a light scarf while unmarried women did not. It was culturally understood that married women not wearing a scarf were looking for an affair. So, the importance of wearing a scarf in church was a prohibition on adultery, not modesty.
Similarly, there are interesting differences found in Galatians that aren't found elsewhere. Galatians was written to churches found in Galatia, a province that had been home to Gallic tribes for 300 years. This required some differing guidance compared to what was given to Greek churches.
Super interesting stuff as far as I am concerned.
The background claim is made up, no historical evidence whatsoever. Great video on head coverings i put in my playlist if you want to dig into a scholarly analysis
@cosmictreason2242 I'll look into, thanks for the info.
@@Prom591 I'm embarrassed i just noticed i hadn't added it. Now i did so it should be first in the sort by newest filter
Purely as a mater of anodyne acdemic interest to what extent have you ben able to verify for yourself whether or not what you were"aught at Baylor" was or was not complete bunkum?
@vhawk1951kl Oh, that is exceptionally fair to ask. I am also extremely skeptical of the religious establishment. They had us going to chapel every week, teaching us Jesus was a real, spiritual figure. Truly divine. I imagine all of that was B.S. It is one of the major reasons why I deconverted.
Dr. Knust's observation about the story of the adulterous woman that "the woman was the silent ground upon which the law was debated" is an absolute banger of a phrase. It matters just as much today, thinking about topics like how old white men in positions of legal power debate back and forth and toss women around as bargaining chips when it comes to topics like abortion.
absolutely. I'd always been bothered about this story in a different but related way - in my experience liberal christians tend to use it as an example of why evangelical christians are 'doing it wrong', saying this story shows you shouldn't judge or be hateful towards people regardless, which bothers me mostly because that's usually not the argument we're having.
The church I grew up with was great about not being hateful towards sinners, but they still thought homosexual actions were a sin and that marriage should only be between a man and a woman. They were perfectly loving when they looked at people like me with sympathy in their eyes and offered to pray for their struggles. It barely hurts any less to have someone you love reacting to your sexuality with sympathy and concern than anger. The issue, most of the time, is whether the adulterous woman sinned, not whether one should stone her. Don't stone her is level 0 of the issue, it only helps in the most basic, rudimentary level of moral action
Old white men? Here we see the leftist mental disorder, in reality white countries are way more tolerant to women than POC ones, the most mysigenistic people on earth are brown men from the Arab world, white people are miles ahead in terms of tolerance. And the judge who overturned Roe vs. Wade was black
Exactly, in the game of patriarchy women are not players, they are the ball.
You can talk about white men but when people want a better life they sure do love to show up to white majority countries and neighborhoods and schools n so thank a white man every time you see immigrants show hi because they sure love to show up to what we made.
I have the utmost respect for you taking this project on. It's incredibly difficult to engage with scripture in good faith and even more difficult to find someone willing to discuss in good faith (no pun intended) without letting their personal biases influence the conversation. On top of that, it's really hard not to just dismiss the entirety of religious practice as flawed dogmatism that does more harm than good. It's important to do this kind of work because it helps pull the zeitgeist away from theocratic authoritarianism even if that's a monumental task. Thanks.
new word learned: zeitgeist
what's the difference between zeitgeist and spirit?
Zeitgeist is an idiom, a manner of speech - we have it as a loanword from German, meaning "time ghost". It just means "that which belongs to the modern discourse", the capturing of what's on everyone's consciousness today.
@@talkwith_Lina Assuming you're referring to Rationality rules, what were they hypocritical about?
can you elaborate?
@@talkwith_Lina babe, why'd you make an account to try to misrepresent a group of people that you obviously don't understand. your account was made like three hours ago. how can a human being do stuff like this and not realize they're very obviously the a**hole???
I'm a closeted trans male and a non believer, but my parents force me to go to church with them. I live in an extremely conservative, religious community. The pastor at our church literally called gay/trans people pedophiles in a serman💀💀💀💀
I'm so done with these ppl, seriously💀💀💀
that is not true Christianity, thats just a group of really opinionated conservatives using the Lords name as a scapegoat for their hatred. Jesus loves you, and i hope you have a great day and dont take what those people say to heart
im sorry :(
stay strong and stay in there!
Take care. Get out as soon as you can..... maybe college somewhere more liberal. It gets better. Love yourself... you are precious.
@@micah4628Good old “No Scotsman” fallacy, unfortunately it’s up to religious people to interpret what scripture is.
Also ironically, the Catholic Church held secret records of known pedos that role played as religious leaders, yet did not report them to police out of grounds that they could do this themselves, meaning they just shifted their jobs around the world and never fired them or reported them
@@micah4628What is "true Christianity?" Especially when the books in the Bible contradict one another on multiple points, and denominations disagree on the importance of church doctrine for exegesis.
It's so weird you posted this today after my conservative Christian mom and I had a multi-hour discussion about this stuff yesterday. Was one of those coincidences I would've attributed to God if I was still a believer
The two "angels" who visited Sodom = Zeus and Hermes.
@@harveywabbit9541 cupids
It's good you had the bravery to face the world without your safety blanket. Good job, and while it might not mean much from a stranger, I'm proud of you.
Synchronicity
@@davidsprouse151Zeus being a cupid makes a lot of sense.
It's incredible that a few badly translated words without adequate context in a text from thousands of years ago have caused and continue to cause such an amount of human suffering over many generations.
To be fair I think its more about finding a way to justify already held beliefs. So its not necessarily the actual text saying anything
Its not badly translated. Just because some stupid athiest on youtube thinks so, doesn't mean it is.
@kereal2591
How embarrassing for you. You see, if you actually watched the first three minutes of this video, you would know that this exact "point" is literally why this video exists and that most of it is *CHRISTIAN SCHOLARS* who love God and the Bible so much that they went and *learned the original language the Bible was written in* talking about the exact meaning of those words in said language and the social context the Bible was written in. No atheist ever made any statements about the translation at any point in this video because it's about letting educated Christians speak. But I guess a certain part of Christianity is simply allergic to that kind of education, as well as excessively determined to make themselves look like jackasses at any possible turn.
@@rainpooper7088 Anyone who says the bible is 'falsely translated" is already lying and a fraud. it's NOT falsely translated. Thousands of scholars over thousands of years have been hard at work translating all books of the bible, but now suddenly because some modern nutjob says so, all a sudden the translation is wrong? it doesn't matter what you think of it, the bible and every Abrahamic religion will agree there is 2 genders, man and women, who are meant to be with each other and ONLY with each other.
@@kereal25911 second of a search on google and u will find that the bible got rewriten/changed more than 30000 times ☠️
I checked this like in 1-2 seconds
I’m an orthodox Christian. I don’t have a long endearing comment to right I just have a thank you. Sent this to my priest and he said we will have a chat. Pray for me, or send me good thoughts I guess because your an atheist haha
Wow, I’m glad you liked this! I’d love to hear an update after your chat if you’d like to share. Best wishes on a good conversation!
@@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic yeah it went surprisingly well!
He’s always been open to hearing about things from my perspective, it’s not everyday that a young lesbian joins a “traditional” religion that is less then 1% of the countries population and usually somewhat homophobic, but all the books I recommended to him he never had time to read. So this video was a pretty neat, short enough thing that he could listen to as a podcast while setting up for church.
We essentially had a two hour debate/conversation going back and forth between what he knew and what I knew, but overall I got him to agree to actually reading my books and to delve more into the works of lgbt+ affirming scholars and to speak with friends of his that are actually doctors in biblical study and what not. So I wasn’t expecting a bad reaction but I also wasn’t expecting such an open one so quickly.
He also said it was nice to see an atheist being respectful (we come from a country where the population is 40% (Protestant/Catholic) Christian and 40% atheist so debates are pretty crazy) and also that you had a “very tolerable accent for an American” 😂
Also I watched a couple of your other vidoes and you genuinely seem like a nice guy with interesting points, I also have learnt alot about the situation of American Christianity, really worrying stuff. Anyway have a lovely day!
I'm glad that you were able to have a honest conversation with you pastor. I'm also a Christian and I love Skeptic's videos. I think he does a really good job at being compassionate and caring towards his audience (though I obviously don't know him personally). Honestly, his videos have helped me in challenging a lot of old views like the Afterlife and LGBTQ+ issues. I have always had issues with how the church treated same sex relationships... but I grew up being told that God didn't approve of "gay people"...
Personally I'd be interested in some of the literature you offered your Pastor, as I would like to get a better understanding myself.
My former pastor in Toronto (before I started deconstructing) got that verse marker tattooed on his arm, and we all thought it was he was so cool and funny for doing that. That pastor has now had quite the fall from grace, and is facing multiple charges of sexual abuse. You tell me which is more ironic
why i am i absolutely not surprised
I don't take the bible as an inerrant authority (and I might argue that no one should), but of course we deal with plenty of people who do, so it's good to know what it actually says on these topics. Thank you for sharing this discussion
Do you know, though?
I don't know anymore. Do you know papa freud?
how did Jesus teach? by telling parables(stories).
so interpreting the Bible as a collection of stories from GOD with moral discussion behind them is in keeping with JC's style.
@@DigiTheInformer that's not even in the same ballpark as being rational. Because musicians write songs, their autobiographies can be reinterpreted to be fictional rhymes designed to evoke an emotion? Foolishness
@@DigiTheInformer I love that story with the Great Flood (hopefully a parable JC-style) where all the children are drowned. I think the moral was something about shovelling (animal) poop for forty days and forty nights, but I don't remember any more.
It would be very difficult for me as someone personally affected by religious bigotry to have a "friendly debate" with someone about it. That distance of being personally unaffected sure does help have a "discussion" about whether integral parts of we gays are worthy of eternal damnation 🙃
Only if you are on the receiving end. 🙃
Hey, come on, it's not so bad, at least you'll get to hang out with cool people in hell. I'll be there too, since I'm a woman who has never had children. I too am damned for all eternity.
whether being gay is a sin or not, one the main concepts in the bible is that all humans are sinners and they only way to achieve salvation is through Jesus. nobody with more than like 7 functioning braincells (Christian or not) has ever said that being gay sends you to hell. everyone deserves hell by default, and Jesus is the one who saves us from it. everybody is 'worthy of eternal damnation.' for example from a Christian perspective, a gay person who has accepted Jesus in their heart would get into Heaven, but a straight person who hasn't will end up in Hell. to the best of your ability, try not to take those peoples words to heart who affected you so badly and realize that they had hate in their hearts and weren't truly preaching the word of God, they were preaching their own bigoted takes and disguising it as 'christianity.' id even go as far as to say that the people saying and doing these things have been in a way corrupted by satan, cause what they say sure isnt what the bible says. and even if this sound a bit crazy ion think its that much of a stretch cause if you think abt it from the perspective of satan, itd be a lot easier to get people thinking with hate and all that if you disguise it as being 'the christian way' that way you could corrupt society while staying under the radar. im ngl i kinda started writing this js thinking stuff off the top of my head but im lowkey kinda cooking here idk i might be onto something. its kinda like that thing people say in tiktok comment sections like "the call is coming from within the house" the sin and destruction can come from within the church, and people wont think to look there cause its supposed to be a holy place. my fault if i ranted there a lil bit at the end but main points i wanted to get across was: being gay isnt a determining factor of if one goes to heaven or hell, Jesus loves you, and those who hate for the sake of hating and use the bible as a scapegoat for their hatred arent preaching true Christian values and (maybe?) their souls are filled with Satan and hatred rather than God and goodness. thanks so much if you read all this! hope you have a great day bro, God bless
Everyone is worthy of eternal damnation. That's the point. We have all disobeyed God's law, all failed to keep the commandments. In doing so we have wasted the blood of Christ that is of infinite value and have committed a crime of infinite magnitude that deserves infinite punishment. However, the Lord is a God of mercy who doesn't want us to go to hell, but the debt for our sin must be paid. So he sent his son, a man without any sin, to pay the debt that you owe God for your transgression when he died on the cross. All you have to do is to accept his sacrifice and you will escape hell.
@@francelaferriere6106 In hell, you'll suffer alone. The Bible never speaks about being childless as a sin, but that's not why people go to hell. The only reason people go to hell is because they've chosen to live their life separate from God. The only way out is by following Jesus.
I have such ridiculously mixed feelings about Dan McClellan. His content on TikTok is so helpful and is doing so much good, but I cannot for the LIFE of me figure out how a critical scholar can most closely identify with the LDS church. A critical scholar who's still a theist makes total sense to me, but not an LDS one. I'd love to hear him speak more on it sometime.
False recognize false
What's LSD?
@@tennicksalvarez9079 LSD is a hallucinogenic drug. LDS is "Latter Day Saints," or more widely known as Mormonism.
@@tennicksalvarez9079 lds is an acronym for the Mormons, "latter day saints." Is their preferred self label, since as you demonstrate, people are less aware of the term and thus it has less bad connotations
Maybe he’s into psychedelic dreams and talking trees.
This topic is where the rubber meets the road. They aren't happy just to impose that on themselves, in their own covens, their own buildings. They want to impose it on EVERYONE as part of the Dominionist ethos.
"covens" I see what you did there. 😆
It's hard to tell which side you're on without the word "covens". Thanks for the new word. I'll assume your a bigot and move on.
They're very authoritarian unfortunately
Can you explain exactly who you're referring to? I can't tell from context.
@@NewChannel-mm2zi What? It's very clear. The ones who impose their beliefs on others. Do you have comprehension issues? I can help more if you do.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The message of Christianity is supposed to be a message of love. Those who claim that the bible justifies their hate are either tragically misinformed about their own religion or purposefully misrepresenting the bible and taking specific verses out of context to mislead others into believing their lies. I feel pity for the first category and disgust for the second. I resent what these two groups together have done both to public perception of religion and to those they hate. However, I try not to resent these people and instead wish that they would realize their mistakes and change themselves for the better. I believe that the world would be a better place if we could all just get along with each other. I wish we could stop this petty bickering and focus on the real problems with our world like climate change and the poor, homeless, and starving. However, I am far from perfect in this regard. I sometimes find myself outraged at the people who spread these lies. Despising a lie is totally reasonable, but being outraged at the people who peddle those lies won't help anyone. They are people too. This only works if everyone stops talking in terms of us and them which seems to be really hard for any of us to do.
Idk it’s pretty clear about women. The context for that was basically they were sexist.
realest comment ive read oat
@@micah4628 same
The people with all the power and the wealth would rather we continued to divide ourselves so that we may not ever unite to cause those with all the power and the wealth to share power and wealth.
It's a good thing that you choose to interpret the bible as a message of love and use that to do your best as a person, however it's only your intuition that the message of christianity is supposed to be loving. Other people could easily argue that the main message of christianity is submission to god, and the actions of this god are decidedly not loving for the most part.
A book so perfect that you have to study it's history, it's context, and learn to understand at least two more languages in order to have the "correct" interpretation of what the texts in the book say. So perfect.
And even after that, you’re left with a mere interpretation - what they _might_ have been thinking when they wrote that
@heavy0119 and then another "believer" can just say "that's not supposed to be taken literally" about anything they don't agree with in the book.
r/atheism moment
@@dejus_e facts don't care what you think
@@exaucemayunga22 merely an opinion at best
In what universe should I take advice on sex and gender from a book that tells people not to wash their hands before eating because they had no idea of the germ theory of disease?
Buy an old Sega, and do it in that universe. Other than that, enjoy it as a poorly written historical fiction book. Oh, and I don't think gender was even a concept then. Or Sex for that matter since they really didn't know anything about biology. (And yes, I am joking about all of this. There is no universe where you take it seriously).
Where does it say that?
@@ericmacrae6871 matthew 15:20 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”
What? The Torah tells people to wash their hands constantly. I don’t know of anywhere that the New Testament contradicts any of the mitzvahs related to cleanliness, can you point out the verse that does so?
@@stevendorries Before eating? Where exactly does it say that? Washing was religious and had nothing to do with being clean in an actual sense. Can YOU point out where it says to be clean due to pathogens?
I can't believe more people don't recognize Lot's story in Genesis is condemning rape and not homosexuality. It really takes a lot of ignorance to read a passage about a group of people wanting to rape angels and think it is a problem for no other reason than they're all men.
Siker brings up something that I always thought was crazy about the Sodom story: Abraham bargains with God over the righteous people who still live amongst the unrighteous in Sodom. God says he's going to destroy everyone there (righteous and unrighteous alike) and Abraham says "what if there are just fifty righteous people? you gonna kill 50 good people?" And god says "no, i'll spare 50 people." Then Abraham says "what about 40?" God says "ok not 40," and then "what about 30?" and so on down until God agrees that he won't kill 10 good people. And then Abraham just stops.
First of all, why was God willing to kill good people, before Abraham convinced him not to? And secondly, how come Abraham, seemingly defending the righteous against the indiscriminate unjust destruction of an angry god, thinks that up to 9 good people are ok to get murdered by God? Why didn't he negotiate down to "you should spare the city if there is even one righteous person who might die in the crossfire"? In the end there are iirc four righteous people (Lot, his wife, and their two unmarried daughters), and God does warn them to leave but ends up killing one of them anyway. You dropped the ball, Abe, and now Lot's wife is dead.
The conversation had nothing to do with changing God’s mind. He already knew how depraved Sodom is, rather it undoubtedly showed that God was justified in His action to Judge the wicked. Hence them being unable to find even 10 righteous people. You can see how sin had absolutely corrupted these people, including lot and his family. They wanted to r*** the angels and Lot even tried to offer his daughters up in their place to protect his guests (the sodomite culture took a toll on him). While they were escaping, God commanded them not to look back at the destruction of the city. Lots wife looked back, it showed she still had longing and affection for the sinful culture of the city. Shocking things continue to happen in the passage. Lot’s daughters engage in a way in that shows their lack of faith in God, it’s also a reflection of the morality in the Godless culture they were raised upon.
I too wondered that. I figured maybe Abraham felt like he had already pushed his luck too far and didn't want to piss God off. I also never liked Lot and didn't think he qualified as "righteous" after what he pulled while trying to defend his guests.
@@annalisasteinnes Yeah, the fact that Lot is considered "righteous" despite offering his daughters up to be raped is another big problem with that whole story of course. that's a more well-known objection
@@annalisasteinnes yeah but I think the story points in the direction 'he even gives his own flesh to protect his guests'. I mean, he didn't put people in danger - only women (sorry for the joke, but it's to rediculous for me that they are more of a thing you own than fellow persons)
Abraham didn't convince him not to. He was seeing if God was planning to do it to begin with, that's why he stopped at ten. He wasn't debating the Lord, just asking him what he already planned to do.
I’ve heard more people than I can count tell me why they feel like the Bible does or doesn’t condemn homosexuality and I’ve heard so much discussion about it, in good faith and not so good faith. As usual, awesome video! I ultimately look at it this way… Nobody should care what the Bible says. Just because an old book says to do something, you don’t have to. The Bible says some awesome things that I try to do as much as possible, but because they’re good things, not because they’re in the Bible! Ultimately I feel like just treat others with kindness and love, that’s the single best way to do the right thing and will rarely lead you astray!
If you don't mind me asking, are you religious in some kind of way?
What is good and who defines it?
@@Lerian_Vour species defines it by averages.
@@rainkidwell2467 That includes the Nazis, right? Nazis define good, according to you.
Who gets to decide what is and is not big. Or cool. Or wise. Or timely?
I cannot express enough, my deep appreciation for the work you do and the compassionate mindset you have in discussing these topics and providing better context for all of us, wether we are atheists, believers or somewhere in between, and wether we are content or recovering from religious trauma.
Even 20+ years into my recovery i still struggle sometimes with "reteating to my battle line " as Dr. McClellan so accurately pointed out; and watching your videos and listening to the discussions really helps me remember myself and continue to work at being a person that builds bridges rather than salting the earth. Thank you @GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic
I was SO hoping to see Dr. Dan McClellan on this episode!!! His approach to this topic has been so enlightening to me.
There was plenty of gay and bi people and cultures with more than 2 genders around when Jesus was alive and he was never preaching against them
THIS!
Correct. I never liked slanderous Christphobe types anyways (unless you maybe count historical figures that happen consider Christianity to be heresy or fictional characters).
This is such an amazing video - literally every minute was amazingly interesting and informative, in a 2-hour video. Thank you so much for making this! I definitely want to attend that online conference now
I’m so glad you enjoyed it!
Clicks in: Whoa, this is a long video Drew. Good think I don't work today
Good thing I don't work at all 😮
Good thing I'm at work and getting paid to watch it
@@WerstoftheWorstexactly my thought. Found this video just in time to go back in after lunch
good thing I do work today, I've got two hours left in my shift and I just saw this video lol
How was your shift?
So in the ancient world, it was ok to be gay as long as you’re a top?
It is still like that today for some people, I'm in Latin America and I know many "straight" guys who had sex with other men but because they were the top it doesn't matter, I don't understand the logic in it, but who am I to question?
@@bluester7177 So what if both are on their sides?
@@bluester7177 There is no logic in it. They're gay.
@@DeltaH-9of course they are, or at the very least bisexual, but what OP refers to is the mentality of some of those men, who think that as long as you're not penetrared and your asshole doesn't get touched, you're fine and you're not gay/bisexual.
@@DeltaH-9 They don't consider themselves gay, they often have wives, girlfriends, and say they don't feel any attraction to men, they think if they are the top they are straight because in their mind what makes someone gay is being in the bottom, in the receiving end, the woman in the act, my country is 88% Christian and most people are not super well-educated on gender and sexual orientation issues (to the point they tend to conflate the two, some people think gay men are trans just because they bottom), so it makes sense that the way they think is somewhat similar to the bible.
Also, bisexual people are a thing and I don't dictate people orientation, they are what they say they are, and you can have sex with people you're not attracted to, it's possible, I'm asexual, I've done it.
What about David and Johnathan? Their souls were knit together, and David said Johnathan’s love was “better than a woman’s”.
They were Cousins
@@daraghokane4236 Like Sailor Neptune and Sailor Uranus.
@@alexiswelsh5821 'There both girls and cousins too' Can't argue with fourkids
The only reason you can't understand ir is because modern society suppresses men's friendships because of the widespread normalization of gayness
I agree with the same-sex sexual-romantic readings (per Joel Baden, Thomas Römer, and Saul Olyan), but it's an _intentionally nebulous_ narrative playing deeply on political kinship dynamics and literary tropes, making it generally unuseful in Evangelical debates. Römer observes that the texts appear to have been transmitted precisely because they allowed a heterosexual reading.
Brilliant. As a life long atheist, that was probably the best spent two hours of my life.
This popped up randomly on my recommended. I’m from an incredibly Christian multigenerational family and my Faith strained and broke after their reception of me coming out many years back.
This has been a fascinating watch, thank you.
What if Paul was just Asexual and had no desire whatsoever for sexual relations, there are many people like this today. So how could he possibly understand? Must be easy for him to tell others to abstain from desire and to my surprise even marriage.
i guess but this mentality is like telling someone whos addicted to drugs that theyre not gonna be able to quit because its hard to abstain from desire. just because something is mentally challenging doesnt mean its impossible or that you shouldnt do it. not talking bout this video specifically but js that way of thinking in general. personally i prefer the mindset that you can do whatever you put your mind to if you want it bad enough (if you want to stay away from certain desires, you by all means are capable of doing so). i js think that its a more hopeful postive and optimistic way of living/thinking but maybe thats js me though idk you do what you want and all that
@@micah4628In 12 step programs, they actually do specifically tell addicts that they are not in control and cannot help themselves. It's why many ex-alcoholics avoid even going near bars, because they could fall off the wagon.
A vagina was an inverted penis back then! Good lord, the laughter that just erupted from me, I can't!
Like the two triangles which became the star of David.
@@harveywabbit9541 The symbols for both earth and fire combined
I learned that when I was pregnant, so now I tell males you were a girl first. Till it decided to drop
Well, if vagina is inverted penis - this means that penis is inverted vagina
So this definition isn't inherently mysogynistic, just ignorant people interpret it as such
As a gay man, I found this a very informative discussion of the biblical approach towards gender, sex and sexuality (it's a bit long so I've only watched the first 45 minutes so far). I would suggest Reacteria's fascinating "Sex and Sensibility" video as the perfect complement to this one, from the scientific perspective.
This may be your best work yet Drew! Im at a loss for words on how to describe my gratitude for making this video
Thank you for this. I'm only 15 minutes in and already learned so much.
LET'S BE CLEAR TO THOSE GODLESS PEOPLE... WE ARE JUST TIRED OF YOU TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU DO NOT EVEN BELIEVE;as obsessed idiots.
That why they always come here "saying they were Christian", or "Saying personal stuff about themselves" or "Saying something superficial" or "Makes stupid jokes" or "Laugh as stupids" (They do that because they have less secret things in their miserable life)... As be a Christian or a believer makes you have more to have more precious things in your live, and much worst to be a godless and soulless desperate (alone) idiot.
But any way... LET'S STQART AND SHOW HOW MUCH NONE WILL MISS THOSE PEOPLE AN THEIR EMPTY CULT WHEN IT WILL GO BACK FROM THE NOTHING IT COMES FROM... ALSO BECAUSE IT IS WORTHLESS... (And without God you are more worthless then the believers... that is simple the true).
Why godless alone people are obsessed with God?? and talk about him more then a believer? Well for many reason.... 1) About that BS called atheism there is not much things to say, no value, no sacred things and and it leads to nothing. 2 And then because they know they are so many godless alone people that will run to kiss their ass... 3 they do that so this cult can be alive, otherwise is destined to vanish, exactly from the nothing it comes... because is nothing but a cult that has nothing to offer to us and neither to the godless alone people who belonged to 4 And finally this cult will be vanished without those videos and those godless alone people will be just alone.
And who said the opposite is a godless alone hypocrite.
This cult called atheism is so empty... And those godless alone people really have nothing to offer to themselves.
They have less sacred things then us... what an idiots they are for that too.
Let's hope in a better generation because this is so lost.
You are into an empty cult that leads you nowhere... No respect for you, godless ass kisser.... You really left God to put BS and emptiness in your miserable Life. No Pity for you. (God is always you do not know)..... We need to move to a better generation, and Hope godless alone people like you will not exist anymore in the future (you are worthless your cult called atheism).
What you realised that Atheism is just an empty cult?
That Have nothing to offer to you, or to the humanity?
It leads to nowhere?
To the Obsession for God?
For Christianity?
That there is not comfort on it???
And that live and die as an alone godless person is not the best you can have?
Just as have the idea that once you die you will be Nothing (and Nothing you are now, as you become what you think you will be once death) is not the best for your mental and psychological stability?
Or have sacred things (as other people have) and you do not (such God) is so idiot that you are rething about everything and start to believe that Atheism is not but a BS, and a trap you are in???? They are patethic and worthless as their empty cult called atheims, which will not lead them anywhere, but a alone godless desperate life that they will never admit it. No respect for them. THAT IS JUST AN EMPTY CULT, AND WHEN IT AND THOSE GOLDESS WORTHELSS SOULESS PEOPLE WILL BE BACK TO THE NOTHING THEY COME FROM, NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT. NO RESPECT FOR THEM AND THEIR NO SENSE CULT (godless ass kisser, wirth no dignity)... THEY BRING EMTPTYNESS as their cult called atheism... Shame on them and their desperation....
Anyway only a pathetic person can learn something from someone who explain you a thing obsessively that does not even believe... (with videos that are not helpful for their life...) WHAT AN EMPTY NOSENSE MODERN CULT YOU ARE TRAPPED IN, AND YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF........ Atheism is just empty BS, but those godless alone people are so sad to do not get... Let's hope in the new generation, this one is so lost, and none will cry when their worthelss atheism will be over.
Your wortheless empty Atheism is dragging you to the nothing it give to youy (and to us) but you are too pathetic (as atheism) to get it. No rpesct for you godless assk kisser. No respect for you Godenier...
You just worth as your atheims: 0.
For real what an empty cult... when this worthelss cult will be over none will complain... Our faith is much stronger then your empty BS. Deal with it. (it is far bettre to be a God believer, then a godless alone person as you in an emoty cult that does not give us and even to you anything)
You’d think that an all-knowing god who “made” everything would’ve been able to dictate a book that people in every generation could understand and would apply to correctly.
They can. People don't disbelieve because it's difficult to understand, but because they don't want to accept what it says
well god didn't write the bible to be honest
@@EvaFuji being the question, assuming what you need to prove
what does this even mean? and if He didnt make everything what do you believe the explanation is? cause js using common sense theres way more of a chance that the universe was designed by a creator, not just existed from nothing randomly. and going off that (so now assuming there is SOME god) would Christianity not be the one true religion? because basing it off things like historical accuracy and all that it matches up by far the most
@@micah4628i’m curious what makes it more likely that god could have created the universe than something non-religious?
This is really good. It's nice to hear people who know what they are talking about who aren't blinded by dogma.
How so? If you ask someone else this would be weird to use the Bible as standing book of facts. That's dogma? Most people didn't write for long periods of time in human history. Their beliefs as good in the hand of politicians of ideas. This yet argues against Male and Female but that it has to be adapted to what people believe. Which isn't how factual information works.
@@rohanking12able No, it's a collection of stories, mythis, and writings. Some of which are definitely rooted in facts, others less so. But that's how old books and mythologies work.
@@palmereldritch_6669 fair
I grew up with a close friend at church and school, who was gay, and loved Jesus and God, and I always felt God created this person and that person, and loves them, plus Jesus never making it an issue, really opened me and my unconditional love. It never mattered, you are who you are. I was a very accepting person, and that was important to me with walking in love and acceptance. I love to dance and preferred going to the gay clubs to dance, when saved me from dealing with guys I didn't want to. And I especially loved the happy loving cool atmosphere there. I can't wipe the smile off my face. When I discovered that my middle child was hermaphrodite/intersexed, having both sex organs of both, (male on the outside and female on the inside), I knew that God knew I was perfect to be her/his mom. And in the broader spectrum, if God makes some people with both sexes, which I consider the third sex, then it opens the acceptance, love and understanding for the various different people. In a nutshell. Hahaha. I also explained to my child that in ancient history, in many places, that hermaphrodites were considered to be special and sent from God(or the gods) and the angels, because they were usually considered to be both. 💜✌️👍😊
I'm glad that you love your child the way she/he is and even as a non-Christian, I can see your faith as something very positive because you share love and not hate. I wish you and your family all the best.
💜
"There is no reading without context" - Jennifer Knust. Great interviews, thank you so much. May we all read the Bible as it is: a collection of books written at different times, for different audiences, by different authors trying to make different - sometimes conflicting - points.
It doesn’t make sense for a passage to be condemning sexual violence if there’s a “lesser of 2 evils” cop out.
Also were Lot’s daughters not “under his protection?
Also also why wasn’t Lot punished for his sin while his wife was punished for a sin she didn’t know she was committing?
Lot's wife is the constellation Virgo.
It focuses heavily on men, doesn't really care about women
I was bored and browseing the comments and just wrote something, ignore it or not.
The reason for the wife do become salt is that later in the text Lot gets fucked/raped by his daugthers because they want to have children and no other men are arround and the wife would disturb the daugther father action. Also there is no talk about sin the wife dosen´t even get a name, she just becomes salt after looking back to the city Sodom while running away from danger (and that is interpreted as a sin as far as i know, but in that case it makes sence that only she gets punished because only she looks back). The bible is a conceptualization of litature, very misogynist litature is also good answer to point 3.
The narrative concludes that both the Ammonites and Moabites are the result of incest, since the daughters make their father drunk and come to him in that state (Genesis 19:31-38).
But i have to say to your first point: Also we’re Lot’s daughters not “under his protection?. Yes they were but in the early iron age near east not getting your guest raped was more important then your daughters. Again they were not feminist back then and in the context of the time the passage is makeing perfect sence and is in that way condemning sexual violence. Do not read it with modern day eyes that would be a ahistorical treatment of texts out of the middel eastern iron age. In case you found that moronic, i agree somewhat if you just come from a todays perspective and that is the rason why you read the bible like liature not different to the Gilgamesh Epic or the Aeneid or a story about some Saint out of the middel ages or Robin Hood stories or The Lord ot the Ring universe. It should not infrom todays politics in anyway anywhere at anytime.
Goodbye and all the best.
@@karlcarlsen9664 I already know the story VERY well. It’s fucked.
Because it was seen as a sacrifice - his daughters were things he owned and giving them to protect guests must be like 'giving two fingers or a hand'. They were not persons of their own in this culture. It's immoral from our perspective, but not for them.
I am so excited to hear this video! I grew up fundamentalist evangelical and now value scientific literacy highly, and I think that's why your channel appealed to me. I never knew what to do about same sex sexual dreams or that my friends were all coming out, and it took until I was an adult to come to terms with my own strong and open sexuality. I really appreciate your content and am very interested in this topic. as well as knowing that it took a lot of effort and contacting and coordinating and editing to put it all together
I’m so glad you find this valuable! Making educational content like this is healing for me. Now that I can learn as much as I want, I never want to stop.
Try Catholicism if you value reason as much as you say you do.
@@Lerian_Vhow is Catholicism reasonable? /gen
@@earthangelbaby_ It built Western civilization, invented the modern scientific method, engineering, the hospital and university system, and developed the concept of universal human rights among other things. If this information is new to you, you're welcome.
@@Lerian_Vshame.. You really believe all that
Whether the bible is read in it's original context or univocally or whatever doesn't matter, God's word or whatever text or medium is being used to convey his message to his followers, should either be updated by God every century or 2 to make sure it is understood in its intended context and meaning or, like in the case of our current time, be expected to be read with our current understanding of the language used in the message written thousands of years ago. It is not the fault of the followers for misunderstanding if no effort is placed in updating or reiterating God's message by God. It doesn't matter how it's supposed to be read, it matters how the majority of the people reading are interpreting what is being read. These days the bible is largely interpreted as homophobic as anti trans as misogynistic and more. The message for followers is that these people are going to hell, these people need to be corrected or are mentally ill or they are evil and have embraced the devil. For non believers who are homosexual or women or trans this message largely means avoid believers whenever possible to keep safe from them.
Don't need to update something that was clearly communicated the first time
@@cosmictreason2242 except the bible is not clear nothing about it is clear, if it were clear then there wouldn't be debate over it's interpretations, meanings and translations. there wouldn't be 1000 christian denominations if the bible was clear. If God's message to the world was clear from the beginning to now there would be no other religion but God's religion in whatever shape or form that may look like.
@@kevinreaper2932 false claim. The meaning is not debatable, there is controversy because people don't want to accept the clear meaning. Is there political debate ONLY because reps/dems don't UNDERSTAND what the other side is advocating for, or because they do, and don't WANT it? Be honest with yourself. You won't fool me.
@@cosmictreason2242 the true meaning or the true intended meaning is not debatable like all things objective are not debatable. What is debatable about the meaning is whether or not we know what that true intended meaning is we can make educated guesses based off what is known of the times it was written and what we know of the writer but it's so long ago we can't interview or talk to these people and know what they intended to mean by what they wrote. So you still have not convinced me that an update is not needed.
It'd help if God himself wrote something, rather than people claiming to speak for him, which is all the Bible has.
Gotta love all those confirmation bias videos getting millions of views within days of posting, but as soon as any criticism or accuracy comes into the picture you get a banger like this with far fewer views than it NEEDS.
Yeahhhhh people typically prefer easy answers to the most complex questions, and lots of content creators are happy to prey on that for views unfortunately. I’m so glad you appreciate this video!
Great video. It's weird though that, after I've left the Bible behind as a part of a very difficult internal struggle, it's an atheist channel drawing me back in. I get why this topic is important, but it's certainly not an easy one for me to revisit. That said, these interviews were excellent.
@@Lerian_Vno thank you
@@rainkidwell2467 You're scared of being confronted by the truth. I know that feeling.
@@Lerian_V no, I was raised in the lie you call Christianity. Whatever you have for me, I've seen it twice and grown bored.
You're doing a terrible job of evangelizing your faith here. Taunting people is a way to put them OFF, not bring them in
@@rainkidwell2467 You were raised in Fundamentalism, a modern counterfeit, not the Christianity of the early Christians.
@@Lerian_V I was raised Christian. Christian is Christian, deal with it
As a pan and genderfluid person who used to be strictly Christian, im glad i found you. You helped me word the questions id been having for years, but told to never to ask. I have realized that its braver to face an uncaring universe, than to defend an "omni-benevolent" god. It sounds so alluring, but i know its not true. We only have eachother, and its bettet to see it for what it really is. We are alone, and we cant change that. Yet, i take solice in solitude, for we have done so much.
“Pan genderfluid” bruh wtf is this
@@The_Legend_Himself Pan referring to pansexual meaning the person is attracted to people regardless of sex / gender, while genderfluid meaning that the person sometimes identify as a specific gender, but then changes over time into another gender hence the term 'fluid' as fluids don't stay the same shape
@RichardiOS275 so pretty much bi sexual with extra steps XD. Bruh
@@erenjaeger1738Bisexual, yes, but also explicitly trans-affirming since some bisexuals can be transphobic.
So it wasn't "no being gay" it was actually "no bottoming if you're a man".😂
So the cowgirl position was equally "unnatural" to men being gay, to men being submissive in any kind of sex in general. Dominatrixes were out as was any anal penetration for men regardless of who was doing it.
Which I'm pretty sure is why the Missionary position is the missionary position.
See Ed Oxford. He proves the prohibition against homosexuality was actually a prohibition against pederasty - the use of 8-12 year old boys as women.
Which in the context of the times on which Leviticus (the original book in which the prohibition appears - Paul took from Leviticus, fairly reasonable given he was originally Jewish) of a new settled farmer way of living - having to watch flocks at night to protect their herds from predators - makes a lot of sense. Once 13, the boy was considered to be a man. Most people would agree with a prohibition on pederasty.
In actual fact, most of the issue stems from mistranslation from the original Hebrew or Greek writings.
I’ve always said that we cannot trust modern interpretations of ancient languages because it depends on how the translations interpreted these languages to begin with. Also, some of these biblical stories are oral histories of supposed previous happenings. How can I trust either the translations, interpretations, or retelling when you can’t even play a game of Telephone and get an accurate repetition of the original phrase? Never mind, bringing in the arguments about the compilation of the Bible itself hundreds of years after the lives of the multiple authors.
Its such a shame that we have so little writing from gay and bisexual folks from ancient times. We don't know if gay people 2000 years ago thought of their sexual interests as intrinsic like we do today, because history was written by the straight victors and religious leaders. So much LGBT history and sociology lost, and its absence fuels modern bigotry.
Or it was never an identity, but a side effect of sexual perversion and never pathologized and turned into an identity until the 1950s 🤷
@@cosmictreason2242 You're right, that is a possibility. It's a good thing we have a huge body of evidence showing that there aren't categorical differences between gay and straight relationships in terms of relationship satisfaction, rates of abuse, outcomes of their kids, likelihood of their kids being gay, etc, and that disparities in mental health conditions are accounted for by discrimination.
There are asexual gay couples, which would be impossible if gay behaviour was purely sexual. The relationships of gay people have vastly more in common with the relationships of straight people than they do with the casual sexual interactions of people with kinks. I'm a bisexual guy and my attraction and feelings to men and women feel pretty much the same, it's not like one feels pure, loving and sacred and the other feels lustful, tempting and perverse. You can believe what you want, but you do so in rejection of all evidence, and likely in denial of the real experiences of any queer people in your life.
You have been lied to by religious and/or media figures to keep your adherence to your cultural in-group strong by hating a caricature of an other. Your gut level disgust at seeing queer relationships is understandable, after all it's not like straight relationships are the most appealing thing to gay people. Spend some time listening to gay people talk about their lives. If you have any gay friends, ask to hear about their experiences and listen without judgement. It doesn't take much to pop the bubble and realise that we're just people.
@@cosmictreason2242nah, you’re just a bigot
@@cosmictreason2242514 comments on this channel and for what reason….hope you get deprogrammed soon
@@cosmictreason2242Well, mountains of psychiatric, neuroscientific, psychological, and sociological evidence points very strongly away from that, so we can safely dismiss it
One woman makes the first mistake, and the Forgiving and Loving God says, "well, guess every woman is fucked now"
29:56 Love that the first human was non-binary! Why is that not brought up more?!
Tattoo. My grandfather served in the Navy in WWI. He got the Navy seal tattooed on his forearm as many did. When he got out, he went to seminary and became a pastor. Because of that passage, he wore only long-sleeved shirts for some 70 years until his death.
I don't understand that for religious people. Either Jesus died for all your sins or he didn't. You can't hide a tattoo from an omnipotent god with fabric. And to care so much that the congregation can't be allowed to see something that they all say they believe their god has long forgiven without all hell breaking loose or something. It's really sad
And now there’s plenty of preachers and pastors who proudly show off their tattoos from the pulpit.
People make a fuss about tattoos and stuff but on the other hand eat pork and come with far off explainations why that rule doesn't apply to christians anymore 😂
@@NeurosenkavalierEmilSinclair It really isn't that far off. Jews eat Kosher to this day primarily to sanctify themselves from other nations while they wait for the Messiah, I say this as someone who grew up Jewish and was told this by my Jewish family. However, since the Messiah already came, laws intended to sanctify the Hebrews are no longer necessary, like the law about tattoos.
Depressing, how women have always been seen as lesser...
In recorded history, yes. But it might not always have been. A book you might enjoy is The Immortality Key -The religion with no name. 😊
Today Jesus would have asked the Pharisees “where is the dude?” If the woman committed adultery, she didn’t do it alone. The man was equally culpable. He got off Scott free. Not fair.
Great point lol
You missed the point. Are you saying that both of them should have been stoned? Jesus point was that no one should have been stoning anyone.
While most poetry is symbolic, mine leans toward literal. I assume that's because I'm autistic and tend to see the world through very literal eyes.
This has been incredibly educational, so I shared with all of my Christian friends/fam on facebook. Now I just hope it makes them less homophobic.
I clicked on this out of some strange form of masochism, assuming it was gonna be some awful “what is a woman?” Adjacent type thing but what I got instead was a genuinely interesting and insightful conversation about gender and sexuality in the Bible- amazing work friend, you’ve got yourself a new follower!
the issue i have with saying the real issue with the soddom and gammorah story is rape is that the story seems to prefer rape of women by men more than rape of men by women. thats pretty disgusting
The two "angels" who visited Sodom = Zeus and Hermes. Zeus is the one who orders the floods. Do not make this god angry, for he will lite you up with his lightning bolt and slam you with his thunderbolt. For desert, he will drown you in a flood.
And disturbing. But I don’t know if it’s unexpected. It’s still more likely to happen that way today, so from a literary perspective, it at least tracks with the norm, disgusting as that norm is.
This runs with the part mentioned earlier (and re-mentioned later), that in that period women were thought to be lesser than men, or imperfect men. This is, thankfully, no longer a normal belief, at least in western society (which I say due to insufficient information to other "societies", I guess I'll call them. I find it likely most members of most of these "other societies" would agree with western society on this).
You missed the point where the angels didn't let lot do it. And he was evidently influenced by his society to think that seemed like a good idea. Besides that protecting guests was a HUGE cultural deal then, and stillstill is in Arabia today, see for example the story of Lone Survivor. When a woman was raped in a similar situation in judges 19, it was still seen as a horrific evil
@@cosmictreason2242
The two angels are still alive.
The thing about nature is that it doesn't do binaries, only spectrums. Gender identity and gender presentation are spectrums, with female and male being the extremes.
Edit:
Hello people in the comments! I appreciate the debate on gender that's going on and it's very informative. However, I'd like to remind all the people defending me and my post to not feed the trolls. Acherontia66 is a major troll whose description literally says "Your opinion means very little to me..." Rather than engaging in arguing, I encourage you all to just ignore or report their comments if they're harassing you. Good faith discussions can only happen if both sides go into the discussion with an open mind. Acherontia66 is very clearly close-minded. Please do not waste your time, energy, or effort on them. Peace & Love.
Lol, nature doesn't do binaries? Wrong.
@@DeltaH-9intersex people. No further comment.
@TheWandererOfDreams Lol, I just finished reading an article where it states people Ike you who try to use intersex as a copout have nothing to offer the discussion. Intersex is not the norm. It is abnormal. The same way that if someone is born without legs. That doesn't mean that in nature, people aren't born with two legs and are supposed to have 2 legs.
Cry harder.
Intersex people still have only one dominant and functional sexual organ.
Try again.
@@DeltaH-9do you see the problem with your argument? Just saying wrong doesn’t offer a reason why. Here’s my argument against you using your own logic: “Lol, nature doesn’t do binaries? Wrong.” Wrong
@@TheWandererOfDreams "A Biologist Explains Why Sex Is Binary"
In an effort to confuse the issue, gender ideologues cite rare ambiguous ‘intersex’ cases.
Wall street journal, read the article.
Get an education.
I used to be Christian because I WAS BORN INTO IT. IT WAS NEVER A CHOICE. After seeing the sheer lack of empathy, complacency with abuse and how idealistic the adherents were I decided I want no parts. The simple fact that most people don’t acknowledge or actively condemn sexual abuse and misconduct is why I will never identify with any abrahamic religion. In my opinion they have a very immature view of sexuality and sex in general. They have all sort of expectations of what sex is supposed to be but many don’t understand the concept of consent. The treatment of women is something I will never get behind. I have come to know that people are good people not because of religious dogma but because they choose to be good people. Much of my experience is that there is lack accountability and responsibility for people in power but they get all the glory, Lack of critical thinking, superiority complex, saviour/martyr complex and glorification of suffering is damaging and is always present within the collective psyche. Also the idea that a book that was written tens if not hundreds of thousands of years after humanity had already existed and is supposed to encompass all the experiences that make up humanity is a lie. The idea that their God/Jesus loves everyone is a lie. And they know that. That why they try and find fault and condemn normal human behaviours to make the try hardship within their groups seem more superior because even if they cannot repress themselves enough to be “perfect” they are trying and God knows their heart.
I find that whenever I enter Christian spaces I always fall into a deep depression because I know inherently I am not enough so I always have to mask who and what I truly am. Also the Christians that proclaim their religion is about love need to look at their commandments and stop lying. Christians love people that act and think like them.
This is the same with any other religion/popular cults.
Jesus loves YOU!
another amazing video.
Just got my access for the conference and cant wait!
After deconstructing for quite some time, I've been looking into going back to school for religious studies but wanted other insight from scholars on any topic other than ones I've been deep diving into off gut instincts.
Honestly is such perfect timing!
Isn't it also true that the original text in Hebrew more accurately translates to 'men shall not lay with boys', condeming the abuse of power that comes from one partner being substantially older and often times more powerful, rather than two similarly aged same sex relationships?
I've understood it referred to temple prostitution which was standard practice in the "pagan" religions.
On the points made on the Pauline texts in the third interview regarding marriage and womens roles: I highly recommend a book called "The Making of Biblical Womanhood" that disputes those "know your place" kind of passage interpretaions. It goes so far as to point out that Paul was speaking to women directly as opposed to the roman tradition of only speaking to the men in the audience. He also uses feminine language to refer to the congregation something radical then. A quote from early romans who just finished executing 2 women christians who were preaching in the streets claimed that these christians where sexual perverts allowing women to take lead over men. Many different ways to view paul and not get the kind of gender roles that people get out of it.
I believe early Christianity wasn't sexist, but it has been hijacked and corrupted by romans (especially after it became an official religion of rome) and many of the principles are taught since.
Reading Paul as an ace person, I always got the impression he was asexual and thus had no context for actual sex drive, thus held everyone to his own standard failing to realize his own standards might not be the norm.
Maybe he's a sex repulsed ace? I also got that vibe from paul as a Panromantic ace myself.
@@midnightsan9917 right? When you don’t know it's a possibility the whole sex drive thing does seem like an exaggeration to someone not experiencing it. So solutions like ‘why don’t you just not, and if you absolutely must get married’ can seem like good advise. I’m sex positive in mind set and indifferent in practice and even I sometimes think the drive cannot be that bad, they must be exaggerating when I read romance novels 😂 but you have to give the prevalence and consistency in description some credit so I’ll take the word of those who experience it.
Christians forgetting that eve was genetically a male is the funniest part about their opinions on trans people
Just because she was created from Adam's rib means she's a man? If you got a kidney transplant as a woman from a man would that make you a trans male?
@@BowlOSoup6661
You are not created from the kidney of another person during a transplant. Eve was created from Adam’s rib. Your comparison is invalid.
@@BowlOSoup6661eve didn't get a rib transplant, she is a genetic clone of Adam, her whole body is only made of Adams genes and no one else's. She is a 1:1 of Adam, she is genetically the same as Adam, supposedly, a male.... Or they are both intersex witch would be the most genetically logical, and them being identified as man and women proves that gender snd sex are seperate....
What do you mean "Christian" exactly? Also how would you know what I think about trans people?
I am a Christian, studying for my masters of theology and I love your work! It is refreshing to see a sceptic that has en emphasis on respect, while always having a great argument to back up a criticism. As this video also posits, many Christians are open to and appreciate you kind of content in apposing quacks and unreflectedly held beliefs. 😊
Someone from Paul’s time, suddenly finding themself in the 21st century…would be transfixed by a simple ball-point pen.
And astonished we’re are here at all, especially if they were apocalypticists.
Looking deeper into Paul formerly Saul of Tarsus reveals a thoroughly despicable individual for the methods he used after his conversion if not before
"yeah yeah, I'm surprised Jesus hasn't returned but please tell me more about your flying machines and hot pockets. Jesus had kept us waiting 2000 years, he can wait a little longer."
@@BenjaminWalburn When Jesus returns if he returns his people will kill him again because chances are just like last time he will come bringing instruction that goes against the established self serving way and of course we know full well Christian conservatives of which tend to hold the most power don't like to change hence why we are in this sex and gender war for the sex and gender war is about change.
@@BenjaminWalburn " WHAT THE FUCK IS AN AIRFRYER?! "
And then, paul finally learned why god created humanity
30:00 calling Adam an "androgynous critter" made me lose it. Good stuff
"Don't be a bottom; being a bottom is Beta behavior. Always be a top." - Paul, probably. 😂
I had heard that Paul was referring to pedophilia in his case against homossexuality, but I had no idea it went through that many interdisciplinary layers to be able to clearly explain it. It makes a lot of sense that he would be more familiar to these concepts on homossexuality, since some of the people that followed him were Greek - I believe that was the case with Markus or Luke, I forgot which one of them it was - and the belief that this sort of relationship was okay would've been extremely near to him, like the sort of thing he'd hear regularly. Thank you for the video!
Have you talked to any scholars about the serpent in the garden of Eden being the devil? One thing that kept happening, when I was still a christian, was that I would bring up that I didn't think the serpent was the devil because it was clearly treated like it's own being and punished as Adam and Eve were. I was southern baptist and churches would often present it as the devil tricking Eve. I always felt like this was a way for christians to feel like... It's not our fault, we were tricked... and it perpetuated this "The devil made me do it" mentality that I saw in alot of christians.
It would just be interesting to get a scholar's view on what scholars think about it, and how it became the devil.
Revelation calls satan "that ancient serpent"
if it was its own being then those same people would have the mentality that "the serpent made me do it", i dont really think the issue is caused by that but rather those individuals. people like that will find any excuse for their actions they possibly can
I see now, the bible isn't against people being gay, it's just saying not to be a bottom. This really clears things up
I mean, there is a bottom in a hetero relationship too
So, my takeaway is that the Bible is probably not as homophobic as we thought, but it’s exactly as misogynistic (if not more).
Unfortunately yes. As a Christian this bothers me a lot, especially when the Bible is used to control women. I do believe the Bible comes from God but that doesn't mean we should expect absolute perfection because it was still written by human beings (men) who had their own culture and limitations. I think fundamentalists tend to worship the Bible instead of being 'in the Spirit' and worshipping God, using discernment etc.
I'm glad you interviewed Dan McClellan. I love his work. He's very thorough and has great understanding of context and culture.
Everyone uses originalism and textualism when it suits their position. Go to church instead of watching youboob videos
Hes a mormon
@@PolycarpSalavarrietaYes, I know. I'm familiar with his work.
Right??? A bit contradictory to everything he said in the video.
Great video and great interviews, but I'm particularly fond of Dr. Jennifer Knust after watching this. I love her enthusiasm and her inquisitive approach. Such insightful remarks! She seems to be a fantastic teacher. I'd love to see more!
The only thing you have to remember is that Jesus left you one commandment: Love One Another.
Im not sure if youre trying to use this as a way to stop the push against homosexuality, but personally if for example i had a friend who was taking drugs i wouldnt tell him to keep going because hes my friend, on the contrary, i would care about him and tell him to stop. Its that simple
@@somerandomdoge12The problem here is that equating homosexuality and drug addiction only shows that you have no idea what you're talking about.
@@OakenTome No, theyre not equal. But its still the same thing, as in if a friend is doing something detrimental to themselves you tell them to stop. There are stories of men becoming gay after years of being married to women. You can not tell me you are 100% born with it.
@@somerandomdoge12what are you even trying to write?
@@TheNerd4565 I think ive made my point quite clear
I haven’t watched the whole thing, but “Paul thought it wasn’t natural for men to have long hair” is the funniest fucking thing considering, ya know
Jesus
I love these interviews because so many evangelicals love to pretend that their particular theological position is the only valid one as well as being the consensus across the board. If you ever want to talk about the intersection of religion and climate change I recommend reaching out to professor Timothy Beal 🖤
tattooing the passage that says "don't get tattoos" has to be my favorite form of quoting the bible
What a fantastic video. Two hours of truly interesting conversation with scholars. This is broadcasting material.
“Being gay is a sin and Jesus died for our sins, which means Jesus died for the gays. So if you don’t support the gays, then Jesus died for nothing, and you are putting shame to his name. Amen, and God bless the gays.”
Same goes for murderers from this perspective
@@somerandomdoge12 Yeah that should make you realise that there's something wrong with the concept of sin
Too much mental gymnastics in one comment
@@juliee593 Or maybe that there's something wrong with this comment.
Depends what "support" means.
Any violence is abhorrent ,no matter to whom
Jesus agreed.
Edit: note I'm not a Christian but an ex-OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis) initiate (quit after about a decade) who professed to be (in part) Gnostic but in reality had very little Gnosticism in it. I'm not a Gnostic either. I'm just me and I like studying history and philosophy. My metaphysical perspective is closest to a mix of Plotinus' Neoplatonism and Discordianism. I'm also gender queer if that matters.
I highly recommend the Wondrium (Formly The Great Courses Plus, formly The Teachers Company) production on Gnosticism which is more about varieties of Early Christianities. This guy at the beginning sorta knows what he's talking about but Dr. David Brakke does a fantastic job talking about what early Christians thought of gender. I'm just starting this video so I wonder if this will come up:
For example, this excerpt from The Gospel of Thomas (discovered in 1945 written somewhere in the 1st to 2nd century) would be understood very differently by different kinds of different Christians, different kinds of Gnostic Christians etc
(1) Jesus saw infants being suckled.
(2) He said to his disciples: “These little ones being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom.”
(3) They said to him: “Then will we enter the kingdom as little ones?”
(4) Jesus said to them: “When you make the two into one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside and the above like the below -
(5) that is, to make the male and the female into a single one, so that the male will not be male and the female will not be female -
(6) and when you make eyes instead of an eye and a hand instead of a hand and a foot instead of a foot, an image instead of an image, (7) then you will enter [the kingdom].”
If god hates gays, then why has he made so many of them?
if God doesn't want me to like men, then why did He make them so pretty?
He hasn't, it's what we call "natural" when it's not how we were created
@@theAstarrrif its not natural, why do all mammals have homosexual behaviour.
I’m a 🏳️⚧️ woman, God loves us all 🌈🌈🌈
True, but being associated with Lgbtq as a Christian is abusing Jesus' forgiveness..
@@BowlOSoup6661 no it’s not, how when the Holy Spirit themselves are telling me who I am. I am that I am and God told me I’m his Daughter
@@BowlOSoup6661yeah the lgbt supports things like gay marriage wich are anti christian beliefs
@@Gadget_2161 read the bible
@@Linkolink_X3 I have but it seems you only read to check a box and not to understand. God says your heart is far from him and your lip service is only ever that.
The whole "woman is inferior because penis hasn't popped out" reminds me of some very wacky fanfiction on Ao3. And I dunno how to feel about that.
LET'S BE CLEAR TO THOSE GODLESS ALONE PEOPLE... WE ARE JUST TIRED OF YOU TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU DO NOT EVEN BELIEVE;as obsessed idiots.
That why they always come here "saying they were Christian", or "Saying personal stuff about themselves" or "Saying something superficial" or "Makes stupid jokes" or "Laugh as stupids" (They do that because they have less secret things in their miserable life)... As be a Christian or a believer makes you have more to have more precious things in your live, and much worst to be a godless and soulless desperate (alone) idiot.
But any way... LET'S STQART AND SHOW HOW MUCH NONE WILL MISS THOSE PEOPLE AN THEIR EMPTY CULT WHEN IT WILL GO BACK FROM THE NOTHING IT COMES FROM... ALSO BECAUSE IT IS WORTHLESS... (And without God you are more worthless then the believers... that is simple the true).
Why godless alone people are obsessed with God?? and talk about him more then a believer? Well for many reason.... 1) About that BS called atheism there is not much things to say, no value, no sacred things and and it leads to nothing. 2 And then because they know they are so many godless alone people that will run to kiss their ass... 3 they do that so this cult can be alive, otherwise is destined to vanish, exactly from the nothing it comes... because is nothing but a cult that has nothing to offer to us and neither to the godless alone people who belonged to 4 And finally this cult will be vanished without those videos and those godless alone people will be just alone.
And who said the opposite is a godless alone hypocrite.
This cult called atheism is so empty... And those godless alone people really have nothing to offer to themselves.
They have less sacred things then us... what an idiots they are for that too.
Let's hope in a better generation because this is so lost.
You are into an empty cult that leads you nowhere... No respect for you, godless ass kisser.... You really left God to put BS and emptiness in your miserable Life. No Pity for you. (God is always you do not know)..... We need to move to a better generation, and Hope godless alone people like you will not exist anymore in the future (you are worthless your cult called atheism).
What you realised that Atheism is just an empty cult?
That Have nothing to offer to you, or to the humanity?
It leads to nowhere?
To the Obsession for God?
For Christianity?
That there is not comfort on it???
And that live and die as an alone godless person is not the best you can have?
Just as have the idea that once you die you will be Nothing (and Nothing you are now, as you become what you think you will be once death) is not the best for your mental and psychological stability?
Or have sacred things (as other people have) and you do not (such God) is so idiot that you are rething about everything and start to believe that Atheism is not but a BS, and a trap you are in???? They are patethic and worthless as their empty cult called atheims, which will not lead them anywhere, but a alone godless desperate life that they will never admit it. No respect for them. THAT IS JUST AN EMPTY CULT, AND WHEN IT AND THOSE GOLDESS WORTHELSS SOULESS PEOPLE WILL BE BACK TO THE NOTHING THEY COME FROM, NONE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT. NO RESPECT FOR THEM AND THEIR NO SENSE CULT (godless ass kisser, wirth no dignity)... THEY BRING EMTPTYNESS as their cult called atheism... Shame on them and their desperation....
Anyway only a pathetic person can learn something from someone who explain you a thing obsessively that does not even believe... (with videos that are not helpful for their life...) WHAT AN EMPTY NOSENSE MODERN CULT YOU ARE TRAPPED IN, AND YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF........
Atheism is just empty BS, but those godless alone people are so sad to do not get... Let's hope in the new generation, this one is so lost, and none will cry when their worthelss atheism will be over.
Your wortheless empty Atheism is dragging you to the nothing it give to youy (and to us) but you are too pathetic (as atheism) to get it. No rpesct for you godless assk kisser. No respect for you Godenier...
You just worth as your atheims: 0.
For real what an empty cult... when this worthelss cult will be over none will complain... Our faith is much stronger then your empty BS. Deal with it. (it is far better to be a God believer, then a godless alone person as you in an emoty cult that does not give us and even to you anything).
@@Mar-dk3mpnice incel rant you obsessed weirdo.
sometimes i’d like to think that the bible is just a very intricate anthology of god fanfiction.
Oh, def. It's like God has a fandom made up of all these factions who all interpret his character and philosophy a different way and feel the need to live by that exact philosophy they perceive. Sorta like when you get shounen fans that hit the gym 'cause the main character seemed addicted to training. But obviously it's more... all encompassing and possibly with graver consequences.
@@krispyso The Bible doesn't say that. You guys just gobble up anything you hear from someone who has "skeptic" in their channel name.
UA-cam really said "oh you're watching atheist content? Here's a pureflix ad" ☠️
What a delightful program, Drew! You have a wonderful “ ministry”!
What kind of Bible would be written today if the authors knew what we know.