It’s important to keep in mind that all these people didn’t slowly start to “believe the lie”, they came to the realization that to say so was a signifier of one’s membership into the club, or, more accurately, the cult.
As former GOP, it wasn't Trump that did it. The GOP base has been living in an alternative reality since the 90s. Trump was just more willing to twist that alternative reality.
@@j.f.fisher5318 , It was Nixon and SCOTUS justice Lewis Powell who injected authoritarian desire into the GOP and wrote the playbook for it, but it was Reagan who spread it to the masses.
@@richardjohnson6628 , If you were brought up to believe in an invisible sky daddy, you could be made to believe anything. " Those who can convince you to believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities". Voltaire
I read a printed version last week, and emailed it to my family because it shook me so hard. Tell someone about the tolerance of threats to city and county employees, let them know that it's not just crazies on social media. Kinzinger nailed when he tied the lies to proving Loyalty and Belonging.
Thank you for this. This is one of the most riveting, compelling and thought-provoking angles I have encountered, in relation to the deep rot in our institutions. I love that the narrative is very even-handed and empathetic to the Republicans experiencing their party transforming into something unrecognizable, yet it does not soften or sugarcoat the message. This is something I could actually see my moderate Republican family members engaging with, and paying attention to (whereas most creators documenting the GOP's decline would be immediately dismissed as having "liberal bias"). Please continue telling the story in this manner, because there's a lot of people who desperately need to hear its message.
Yup. I'm a social psychologist and a historian. You are right. Liz Cheney said it perfectly when she warned, " We are sleep walking into autocracy". It's frightening to clearly recognize it. You have reassured me beyond belief.
@@playlist55 Simply, by and large, she's simply begun "to see the light" (as she might admit herself... after maybe discussing much with that father of hers)!
@@garybowler5946 What is trolling? If trolling is scanning the Videos and responding to comments that are made... Yea, I'm trolling. What are you doing here?
I hope you have a good memory because if that creature gets back in, that History will be re-written, his base is 100% signed up to surrendering any disbelief-have been for years-and will accept and impose any version of the past that trump and his regime come up with, I am actually terrified of what may befall us all and cannot fathom the depth of seeming ignorance about the very real threat of trump 2.0, I don't know whether I am getting it out of proportion or not but I see the end of America and democracies everywhere.
0:00 Conceptions of a Democracy’s Demise 1:48 Intro & Hosts: Anne Applebaum & Peter Pomerantsev 2:36 Birtherism in the US 6:05 Stephen Richer - Maricopa County Recorder (GOP) - Part 1 14:33 Adam Adam Kinzinger, former GOP US Congressman - Part 1 19:33 Russia’s 2014 Invasion of Ukraine 22:27 Adam Kinzinger, former GOP US Congressman - Part 2 27:54 Stephen Richer - Maricopa County Recorder (GOP) - Part 2
Pro-democracy Americans of all parties MUST stand together, no matter what. Otherwise we are going to squander the sacrifices of all the Americans who fought and died for our freedoms. As the granddaughter of a D-Day vet who was among the first wave of soldiers to land on Omaha Beach, and suffered horrible PTSD for the rest of his life, I can’t stand the thought of that.
"If only", to almost a dozen important things that has caused this "disastrous predicament" from the 70's "Powell Memo"... that's getting truly worldwide. GULP!!
The reign of Governor Ron DeSantis provides a window--and model--into how an American chief executive of a state (in particular of the state of Florida) can successfully arrogate powers not assigned to the executive through the complicity of eager--and some fearful-- members of the legislarure and judiciary in defianc of the state constitution. And DeSantis demonstrated how a zealot can proceed to reconfigure so many agencies and policies--from school boards, to college curricula and mission statements, to the state's surgeon general acting more as a politician than physician--to conform to DeSantis's agenda and ideology. That he succeeded to such a degree, while bringing extensive harm to institutions, citizens, and the state itself, should frighten any who care about Democracy in the states and the nation.
DeSantis has egregiously trampled the First Amendment, especially the Free Speech Clause (revenge on Disney, Don't Say Gay, removing books from libraries, banning drag shows, suspending elected prosecutors...), and Republicans thought he was presidential (but for Trump)?! Republicans were obsessed with the non-existent Free Speech right to tweet while celebrating DeSantis and the GOP-controlled Legislature repeatedly making laws that infringe free speech.
I do not think DeSantis is a zealot, nor really a man of any principle. I think he is pandering to people who fear a rapidly changing world and the excesses of the American left (particularly the culture warriors), and who in their fear embrace overcorrection.
Absolutely. Abbott and Paxton the same.There are more....Idaho, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Missouri, Arkansas, Alabama, West Virginia, South and North Carolina.....need I go on? It's Project 2025 happening in plain sight......
Solidarity and big thanks to Anne, Peter and every American who agrees to these realisations from Europe (particulary Baltics). Understand that the whole World is divided on personal basis along the psychologically induced faultlines giving rise to post-truth, post-fact way of life. We should do everything possible to avoid descending into this looming, dystopian abyss.
And Nixon secret negotiations with North Vietnam undermining LBJ's withdrawal cost 30, 000 more casualties, and the deal Nixon made, pretty much the same as LBJ'S
I am German. Don´t think we are immune to this. A German podcast ("O.k. America") recommended your programme. This is scary 😱! Why aren´t more people interested in this? Thank you for your excellent work. Please, keep on with it!
S. Richer is a respectable, hard-working public servant who has brought great technological updates to what is normally a boring county agency: the Recorder's office. He is fair to the entire electorate in the County, as a Green Party member, he helped us navigate the required county rules for ballot access & GP voters.
Update: Stephen Richer was primaried by his MAGA opponent. If you want to get a feel for what Mr Pomerantsev described so eloquently, AZ PBS Horizon (KAET) aired a debate between Richer and a MAGA opponent. He could say nothing but, " I'm a traditional MAGA Republican and I support Trump. " It was what Peter describes as, "the moment of a new political paradigm."
I really wanted to listen to this, Anne Applebaum is always worth listening to, but the production choices on this thing is just too bizarre. This is clearly two people reading lines they've written. It's not a dialogue. The music is really weird and intrusive. The whole thing just feels stilted and awkward.
When reagan came on the scene and told the public to fear their government, and changed economic principles from supply and demand to supply sided economics or the shareholder economy. Thats when things really started to turn in the states. With us or against us mentality, politics of division coupled with intentional economic hardship is a recipe for authoritarianism.
for the same fucking reasons anyone would desire to toss away those things you listed. It's exhausting, it never fucking leaves you alone it's pervasive. etc.
@@Sara3346, *food*, food is exhausting and never leaves you alone? 🤔 Does this also apply to sex? My dear Dude, or Dude-ess, Politics often determines where you live, where you work, how much money you make, who and how you love, your access to medical care or the lack of it, the extent and availability of education, the quality of infrastructure around you, how you are treated by others around you, and your personal ability to affect or improve any of these things. You either push to get a seat at the table or you wind up on the menu.
The first lie is that people have political freedom as in the freedom to affiliate with political ideology and identity, I believe in order to preserve personal freedoms, we must deny political freedom. That means barring people from the government, and technically, we don't have political freedom, it's that state power is turned against communists, but Nazis can run for office and they definitely have no qualms about restricting your political freedoms along with your personal freedoms and no one needs that. The state has a responsibility to defend itself and its interests that means banning and barring
The background music is really intrusive and completely unnecessary. Please stop it. It makes it difficult for people like me with less than first class hearing to follow the speech, even when playing back on hifi quality equipment. Even for those with good hearing, this will make it harder to follow if they have background noise, or low grade sound equipment. I found the presentation extremely interesting, but have given up after thirteen minutes as I can't face another 20 minutes of straining to follow the speech.
I agree! It is very distracting and their delivery comes across very “read-y” (not a good thing in an actor). But more content creators need to recognize that a huge percentage of the population has some degree of hearing impairment and many have sensory processing disorder, making it hard to distinguish between the voices and the background music.
"They would say things like 'the truth is unknowable, there are no such things as real facts." Sounds like the extreme end of the modern left which has become mired in post-modern philosophy, one of the core tenets of which is that "Reality - and therefore truth - is subjective." If you start from that position you can do pretty much whatever you want, because you can always flavor the outcomes however you please. I was raised in a family involved in the political left (not in USA), but I can no longer recognize what most left leaning parties in first world democratic nations have become. Deliberate undermining of reality seems a fitting description of their current MO.
not much here... no discussion of capital, wealth inequality, wall street speculation on housing, and the poor and working poor, which is most of America now... I suppose you might find this interesting if you're into neo liberal deck chair arrangements on a ship that's sinking more and more every night and day regardless of the political window dressings...
This case got me all kinds of mad! Florida!!! The supposed state where they want to protect kids from grooming and history! But you literally treat a minor with sex abuse allegations like a criminal, and release her back to her abuser predator pervert ! And the sheriff with the glasses has the damn nerve to give these hour long press conferences , where he is telling how they apprehended criminals! But he got no response for his deputy’s failure to protect that child and serve the predator.
The final capture of the "American Mind" began with the Powell Memorandum in 1971, which determined that America was "suffering from and excess of democracy". Since that time our courts, schools, civic institutions and politics commenced a regimen that has resulted in the mindless adherence to oligarchic proclamations, statutes and governmental hagiography. Our electoral process is now little more than vapid, choreographed "theater" with as much societal significance as the winner of the Super Bowl !
IMHO you've hit-the-nail-on-the-head, but at an angle... because if your last sentence is correct, It'll be less than 50% certain we (even the U.K. and most of Europe, as the U.S. has much 'sway') can escape this downward slide in the next decade or two! Then, Very Grim!!
The only problem here is that you only look at the autocracy bubble around Trump while not recognizing that a similar bubble has consumed the democratic party. That bubble has been developing longer and is a root cause for the Trump autocratic bubble. Like you say no one sees it from inside their bubble or tribe. Clearly you don't even understand why 1/2 the country is voting against your candidate and can't see the same autocratic cultism occurring inside your tribe. Try disagreeing with your tribe about something and you may encounter cancel culture right and left. If you don't swallow hook line and sinker you must be a member of the opposition, and we know they are crazy deplorable ignorant trash who will destroy the country. My friends & neighbors, this runs much deeper and supporting one side against the other only sends us further down a frightening path.
Wow, you guys are so much smarter than me!! Guessing twice as smart. But maybe three times as smart. I bet everyone at the Atlantic has three degrees more than I. Political Psychology Phds. I've only read Milgram, LeBon, and Dessmet. They probably got everything wrong. Glad y'all set me straight on how it all works. Thanks for your time and the confessions by projections. Brilliant. 🏆
Today our world has changed. Not for the better. I hope there are people who will help us. They will fix the vote so we can never win (see Hungary) and eliminate media that disagrees or criticizes them. I’m scared of what’s to come.
Russian sub-texts are everywhere. We should ask ourselves who has done this? When did they arrive? What did they believe? What are their beliefs about culture and the world and how it fits with the History of our national system.
The QUESTION IS... Who is behind this? Who are USING these tactics? The answer is The Council for National Policy. Allied with "The Gathering"(christofascists). Allied with Russia.
@@stevechance150 you want me to summarize the contents of the Atlantic and convince someone who doesn’t already understand it that they frequently publish BS? In a UA-cam comment? Sounds good sure 👍
@@avengemybreath3084well if you can’t you should remain silent instead of adding noise and cynicism, which you seem to think makes you look clever, where people are trying to understand and learn.
Interesting. I had been having a conversation on here with someone and was waiting to hear back. You erased the comments apparently. I was not rude in any way nor was there any terms of service violations. Is it just because you are some of the big boys and don't like it when the plebs speak up? I see you got rid of their part of the conversation as well but you left their other comments to other peoples replies. If one is going to be on social media then one should be willing to debate the issues, no?
Birtherism, similarly to racism, is rooted in classism and caste. America is most explicitly *not*, and never has been, a classless society; as you will learn if you read historian Nancy Isenberg's excellent book "White Trash". Going back 400 years, the elites of Europe were promoting America as a dumping ground for "waste people"; and first-generation Americans, the sons and daughters of immigrants, used the same mindset and rhetoric to discriminate against new influxes of immigrants to America, especially, but not necessarily limited to, those of a different origin or ethnicity. Classism has long been treated as a Zero-sum game whereby the people with a measure of class standing ---- and the economic and political power accompanying it ---- feel that extending similar upward mobility to the new arrivals will detract from their own power and status.
Started by Tea Party because they feared and hated having a Black President. It is rooted in the White replacement theory espoused and spread by neo-Nazi and Aryan Nation groups like The Order. The Christian nationalists and white supremacists are determined to take America back to being the White Christian nation that the Puritans intended it to be. White heterosexual men will CONTROL everything and everyone. Google New Apostolic Reformation and Seven Mountain mandate. Scary! 🌊VOTE BLUE 2024🌊
Well, I'm terrified. Living abroad and watching this year's election from a distance, all I can do is donate, post exhortation to friends and organizations, and bite my knuckles. I am worried for the seven swing states that will determine the electoral college and possibly allow a monster to re-enter the White House. We Americans have been complacent, lazy and ill-infotmed. O hope we can claw our way back from the precipice.
A job for Historians and Anthropological analysis by a Neurological Expert such as Professor Sapolsky's work on Baboons and other people's work on the true nature of Chimpanzees (like us), who are capable of murder and much worse. It's bio-logical re-evolution survival chemistry and physical behavior spectrum evidence we recognize in this narrative.
As a front-row Boomer from the first generation born completely cut off from WWII, and also an activist liberal in the '60's in a family of conservatives, I find it amazing that those who comment on the disrupted events since WWII now seem to be so surprised that the troubled present has been so predictable and even so banally within the norms of popular US political evolution relative to the changed mental environment. Between the popular American and French anti-colonial revolutionary struggles of the 18th century and WWII, historical circumstances experienced the decline of nationalism and the rise of our extra-national community of today born out of, in immediate terms, the failure of governance systems and conditions. None of the old nation states, deeply involved in predatory colonialism could even possibly rise as a legitimate institutional structure to face the new set of extra-national "community concerns" that was becoming the backstory of new conditions that made life-defining events such as a future increasingly defined by the existential threat of developing prospects of increasingly destructive industrial-age wars and an extra-national political space restructuring for global commerce based upon increasing factors of science and technology. Massive deplacement of people is part and parcel of stimulating motivating factors like climate change and large scale exploitation of global resources. Globalization will certainly broaden the prospects of more opportunity in a larger space open to specialization of labor and use of capital. Pass the baton of leadership of public life to another generation with the right mass of collective postwar experience to find evolutionary promise in a new environment of creative prospects. Trump has every reason-the end game-to trash the future because it won't include him and be the patron of capital interests who seek wealth protection, but only from behind closed doors.
the rise of radical leftists is galvanizing radical right wingers and creating them. a little self reflection and a step back from zealotry would deescalate the issue.
I was a lifelong Democrat and have studied disinformation as part of Master's level coursework. It was actually that work that started to make me question why we hear only about disinformation on one side. There is plenty of it to go around. This is where X (formerly Twitter) is doing good work. People on X are able to hold mainstream outlets (even Reuters and AP, sadly) accountable for publishing false or extremely misleading information and be backed up by Community Notes (fact checkers). One example from yesterday was an AP headline misquoting JD Vance about the school shooting in a way that cannot be dismissed as a mistake. There are hundreds of examples, some of which are bordering on outrageous. While the Dems do not have a single person who holds the power that Trump does over the party, they largely control the mainstream media and institutions. If you start looking at staff members in the government, NGOs, and academia, things start to look increasingly concerning. We hear about Trump meeting Nick Fuentes, but we never hear about the activists associated with Biden and Harris, who have equally questionable views, not only about Jewish people, but about democratic values. There are a number of classical liberal intellectuals who have been canceled in the past for daring to tackle these and other controversial topics. The concerns related to authoritarianism on the left are absolutely valid, yet those concerns are rarely ever mentioned in pieces like this. Harris and Walz have both promised to do things that would have us going down the path the UK has taken where individuals have been imprisoned for Facebook posts. No criminal record, no warnings, just straight to prison for a simple ill-advised comment made in the midst of ongoing migrant violence. If you think this is a good thing, think about what will happen when it is your side's speech that is being policed. Think about your grandmother going to prison three days after she posted something on Facebook after a horrible event (in this particular case, she even deleted the post but still got sent to prison). Around the world, we are seeing this double-standard where if you say horribly anti-Jewish things in person or online, nothing happens to you, but if you say or write something about other groups more cherished by the left, it can ruin your life or at least turn it upside down. Many individuals addressing these issues do not love Trump, but instead are deeply concerned about authoritarianism, freedom of speech, truth, and all the same things discussed in this Atlantic piece. Which side is more dangerous? Many wonder if the answer is the left, precisely because journalists no longer hold them accountable and because they hold so much institutional power. If people want to question what they are hearing in their own information bubble, check out people like Peter Boghossian (former professor), Konstantin Kisin, Andrew Gold (former BBC), the team at Unherd, etc. There are lots of thoughtful discussions in new media spaces, if you care to look. The Free Press (former New York Times reporters) are holding actual debates with intelligent people on each side, where nuance is invited back into the discussion. As someone who embraces curiosity and desire to understand other perspectives, I find it disappointing that mainstream journalists are simply deciding to cover half the story or covering it in dishonest ways.
Wow, this must be one of the top tier propagandists employed by the some right wing teter phiel. Never encountered such finesse before. The comment manages to balance on the tight rope of being intriguing and not going too far out there, but if the reader bothers to do even the bare minímum of fact checking, the story turns out to be complete horse poop. Well, not completely because in all the best lies there is some truth in them. Inciting violence is a crime in many countries though. Somebody said somewhere sometime that one has to believe only one lie to become a conspiracy theorist, which is that the main stream media always lies. After that you can feed them anything you want. (sorry about the broken english, not a native speaker.)
When a Republican provides fair and evidence-based criticism of Trump, they are cancelled by the leadership of the Republican Party … and far worse, they and their families are harassed and threatened by Trump supporters - not fringe elements of the Republican Party, these are the base Trump supporters. Non political Civil servants, ambassadors, election volunteers have had their lives destroyed by Trump baring false witness against them Z Trump launched his political career by fomenting fear and hatred of Muslim-Americans by spreading the lie that he watched “thousands and thousands” of Muslims celebrating in the streets of NJ on 9/11. When it was pointed out to him that he was mistaken, he went in a rampage attacking anyone who questioned him … going on stage to mock a reporter “I don’t remember …” You need to refer vaguely to the “left” and baselessly assume that the traditional corporate media outlets are in league with the Democratic Party to suggest an equivalence from Democratic Leaders. You seem to think that because you read some article by some reporter that took some politician out of context, that’s evidence that the media is biased for the “left”, while at the same time you inexplicably ignore the dominance of conservative media in Cable, Radio, and now social media outlets … the big names in Cable and Radio have been found guilty of knowingly spreading misinformation about voting machines in support of Trumps big lie about the election being stolen. This is not vague allusions to a conspiracy of conservative -minded media … it’s a cult of Trump support and direct support of the Republican Party - not some fringe element. There is nothing even remotely comparable to what Trump is doing in the Biden / Harris administration or from any other leader of the Democratic Party.
Steven Richer was attacked by the Arizona Republican Party, who orchestrated the fake electors scheme. The party is now an enemy of freedom and the people.
This is one side of the problem. The other is people like the speakers here that believe whatever their side says regardless of evidence that says otherwise.
The best current research proves that the more Fox News you watch the less informed you are. Objective reality is still a thing despite the echo chamber of demagoguery and “fake news” droning.
I agree with most of this, but the political left side of the spectrum is engaged in the some of the same tactics in the form of identity politics, etc. I've no ill-will towards the people who constitute any of the "protected classes" of the political left, but I do firmly ideologically oppose the concept of a "protected class". We should all be members of the protected class that is HUMAN and there should be NO OTHER DISTINCTION. We should be judged by our acts and not our beliefs or sexual preferences, etc. But the truth is you cannot engage politically if you are left leaning and are unwiling to at least pay lip service to the identitarian politics. I'm exhausted with the politics division employed by both of ends of the political spectrum. I'm exhausted by the obvious intentional, continuous attempted manipulation of the uncritical masses. I'm tired of the PR speak, the insincere lip service and messaging. The false hopefullness and idea that there is some bright future just around the corner. I'm exhausted by the fact that NOBODY in politics is properly effing engaging in trying to bridge the ideological divide between left and right. The truth is, MOST people are similarly morally oriented, in that they want good for their families, their community etc. And we're allowing the conversation to be continously hyjacked by the voices of the most extreme, opinionated fools who are merely trying to forcefully change the social narrative. There is NO SENSE in just pointing the fingers at the republicans, because while they may toss red meat to their extreme right wing, ignorant base, the left does the same to the most extreme, marxist ideologues in courting their votes. There are NO major political figures in the world at present who are above the frey. That is my belief. I used to consider myself on the left, but nowadays seeing what I've seen, hearing what I've heard from the supposed left has pushed me firmly centrist. Pushed me firmly humanist. Both parties rank and file politicians are only interested in maintaining the status quo for their donors, because western democracy is now only intended to obfuscate oligarchy. A large portion of those who consider themselves Libertarian are simply closeted "jack boots". (not saying the historical german "N" word, because I'm unsure if youtube will censor this entire comment if I use it). In fact, small tangent... I'd say that the amount that youtube is censoring messaging, to the point where well intentioned channels cannot even say certain words or engage in well intentioned debate without having to censor their words, or face the algorithmic consequences... But that's kind of off topic.
This is not a "both sides" issue. Yes, spin has come from all political actors since the days of cuneiform tablets. There is nevertheless a massive difference between, say, quoting unemployment figures from the most favorable period and calling the president a foreign national (followed by smirking suggestions of a "Second Amendment solution"). The frequency, scale, and flagrancy of the lies endemic to the Republican party in the past twenty years or so is orders of magnitude from mere political equivocation. The lies come attached to urgings to violence. And they come from conservative leaders, not merely from some fringe figure far from the levers of power.
"Marxists"? What "Marxists" are you referring to? I don't see any Marxists determining public policy (you didn't include names or specifics); but I do see committed Capitalists determining legislation and policy. As a self-professed "humanist", surely you believe, as I do, that people should have easy access to affordable or publicly-financed health care and educational systems that won't bankrupt them. Or is that too "left", too "socialist" for you? As it stands, what we have in America is socialism for the wealthy who get tax breaks and bailouts galore, but rough "free-market" capitalism for the rest of us. Yes, Democrats and the American "left", such as they are, are heavily invested in Capitalism and generally unwilling to change our economic structure except for a little tinkering around the edges ---- but the so-called "conservatives" are aiming for a complete dismantling of tge administrative and regulatory state. No political guardrails, no co-equal branches of government, no checks and balances, just top-down authoritarianism. We won't be able to completely defeat this and just 1 or 2 election cycles but we need to show up and oppose it until such time as changing demographics in the country puts younger, more open-minded people from different walks of life into government so they can start to change the course of the ship of state. For now we have little choice but to preserve the status quo In order to leave the possibility for change available to succeeding generations. It's political triage; it ain't pretty, and we may not like it, but it's necessary.
It is definitely a "both sides" issue. Tribalism has blinded you to the threat posed by the left. The extremism on the left is also pushing away liberals. The op is probably still a liberal. But by all means dismiss it. What could possibly go wrong?
You were never very left if the concept of protected classes is such a strong factor in deciding to change positions. And it’s precisely because you are not being affected in way by such a thing and the idea that protected classes somehow precludes protections of all humans is faulty. This seems to be representative of the flaw in your entire view-you are unable to distinguish identity politics from plain ole identity, demographic, or whatever grouping. Your statement to me comes off as reactionary as you emphasize how a nebulous group that you seemingly disagree with is somehow making you feel pressured thus you must rebel. But again, you were never aligned with leftist ideals because if you were, you could and would simply reject these things you don’t like.
@franjkav, you are being disingenuous. The problem is with an ideology that controls the most powerful institutions and doesn't tolerate dissent. People are at risk of losing their jobs for having a different opinion. It isn't necessarily protected classes, it's how those classes are protected. Any opinion aside from the prevailing one is punished.
It’s important to keep in mind that all these people didn’t slowly start to “believe the lie”, they came to the realization that to say so was a signifier of one’s membership into the club, or, more accurately, the cult.
The question is, "Is that less responsible of them"?
As former GOP, it wasn't Trump that did it. The GOP base has been living in an alternative reality since the 90s. Trump was just more willing to twist that alternative reality.
@@j.f.fisher5318 , It was Nixon and SCOTUS justice Lewis Powell who injected authoritarian desire into the GOP and wrote the playbook for it, but it was Reagan who spread it to the masses.
Totally agree with you... and the Christian Churches have been in total support.
@@richardjohnson6628 , If you were brought up to believe in an invisible sky daddy, you could be made to believe anything. " Those who can convince you to believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities". Voltaire
I read a printed version last week, and emailed it to my family because it shook me so hard. Tell someone about the tolerance of threats to city and county employees, let them know that it's not just crazies on social media. Kinzinger nailed when he tied the lies to proving Loyalty and Belonging.
Thank you for this. This is one of the most riveting, compelling and thought-provoking angles I have encountered, in relation to the deep rot in our institutions.
I love that the narrative is very even-handed and empathetic to the Republicans experiencing their party transforming into something unrecognizable, yet it does not soften or sugarcoat the message. This is something I could actually see my moderate Republican family members engaging with, and paying attention to (whereas most creators documenting the GOP's decline would be immediately dismissed as having "liberal bias").
Please continue telling the story in this manner, because there's a lot of people who desperately need to hear its message.
Yup. I'm a social psychologist and a historian. You are right. Liz Cheney said it perfectly when she warned, " We are sleep walking into autocracy". It's frightening to clearly recognize it. You have reassured me beyond belief.
If you must quote Liz Cheney, maybe quote where she said Kamala is a liar, stupid, more liberal than Bernie, scary, etc. etc.
@@playlist55 Simply, by and large, she's simply begun "to see the light" (as she might admit herself... after maybe discussing much with that father of hers)!
@@playlist55Why are you here, just trolling?
@@garybowler5946 What is trolling? If trolling is scanning the Videos and responding to comments that are made... Yea, I'm trolling. What are you doing here?
As opposed to the slow walking us into it like we have been for decades.
We, the people in America
have been living one hundred years of history in the last ten years.
I hope you have a good memory because if that creature gets back in, that History will be re-written, his base is 100% signed up to surrendering any disbelief-have been for years-and will accept and impose any version of the past that trump and his regime come up with, I am actually terrified of what may befall us all and cannot fathom the depth of seeming ignorance about the very real threat of trump 2.0, I don't know whether I am getting it out of proportion or not but I see the end of America and democracies everywhere.
AND, that with facts STILL being hidden from the kids by the hundred, no, by the thousand!
0:00 Conceptions of a Democracy’s Demise
1:48 Intro & Hosts: Anne Applebaum & Peter Pomerantsev
2:36 Birtherism in the US
6:05 Stephen Richer - Maricopa County Recorder (GOP) - Part 1
14:33 Adam Adam Kinzinger, former GOP US Congressman - Part 1
19:33 Russia’s 2014 Invasion of Ukraine
22:27 Adam Kinzinger, former GOP US Congressman - Part 2
27:54 Stephen Richer - Maricopa County Recorder (GOP) - Part 2
Thanks!
@@PostImperfect sure thing! It's a great episode. Looking forward to more.
Kinzinger. Not Kissinger. Yikes.
@@c.a.savage5689 thank you. I fixed it.
When the lawless are not held accountable, people lose faith in their goverment.
Depends on what one considers "lawless".
Pro-democracy Americans of all parties MUST stand together, no matter what. Otherwise we are going to squander the sacrifices of all the Americans who fought and died for our freedoms. As the granddaughter of a D-Day vet who was among the first wave of soldiers to land on Omaha Beach, and suffered horrible PTSD for the rest of his life, I can’t stand the thought of that.
I hope no matter what means banning and barring, like winning elections isn't enough when they can run again and lie just as much.
It is about to happen on day one of Trump's administration agenda.
"This is how democracy dies. To thunderous applause."
@@norml.hugh-mann That's probably just the tip-of-the-spear. Now, to use Hiliary's word, there's an awful lot of "deplorables" following!
If only more voters would see what is happening before our eyes.
"If only", to almost a dozen important things that has caused this "disastrous predicament" from the 70's "Powell Memo"... that's getting truly worldwide. GULP!!
The reign of Governor Ron DeSantis provides a window--and model--into how an American chief executive of a state (in particular of the state of Florida) can successfully arrogate powers not assigned to the executive through the complicity of eager--and some fearful-- members of the legislarure and judiciary in defianc of the state constitution. And DeSantis demonstrated how a zealot can proceed to reconfigure so many agencies and policies--from school boards, to college curricula and mission statements, to the state's surgeon general acting more as a politician than physician--to conform to DeSantis's agenda and ideology. That he succeeded to such a degree, while bringing extensive harm to institutions, citizens, and the state itself, should frighten any who care about Democracy in the states and the nation.
DeSantis has egregiously trampled the First Amendment, especially the Free Speech Clause (revenge on Disney, Don't Say Gay, removing books from libraries, banning drag shows, suspending elected prosecutors...), and Republicans thought he was presidential (but for Trump)?!
Republicans were obsessed with the non-existent Free Speech right to tweet while celebrating DeSantis and the GOP-controlled Legislature repeatedly making laws that infringe free speech.
I do not think DeSantis is a zealot, nor really a man of any principle. I think he is pandering to people who fear a rapidly changing world and the excesses of the American left (particularly the culture warriors), and who in their fear embrace overcorrection.
Absolutely. Abbott and Paxton the same.There are more....Idaho, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Missouri, Arkansas, Alabama, West Virginia, South and North Carolina.....need I go on? It's Project 2025 happening in plain sight......
Thank you so much. If only more people were aware.
So glad you two are doing this! Thank you!
Wow. That was intense and great. Thank you both so much, and kudos to the whole team!
Thank you so much for this powerful and clear explication of what has been happening in the United States.
Solidarity and big thanks to Anne, Peter and every American who agrees to these realisations from Europe (particulary Baltics). Understand that the whole World is divided on personal basis along the psychologically induced faultlines giving rise to post-truth, post-fact way of life. We should do everything possible to avoid descending into this looming, dystopian abyss.
Birtherism is othering , for political purposes.
good
@@BigBoss-99a Politics *is* othering, as per Schmitt.
And how corporate america, including corporate media, manufactured it.
🤔CNN, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, and CBS did not promote the birther lie nor broadcasted uncontested lies about the 2020 election.
Thank you.
HR McMaster’s book “Dereliction of Duty:Lyndon Johnson, Robert McNamara, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the Lies That Led To Vietnam”
And Nixon secret negotiations with North Vietnam undermining LBJ's withdrawal cost 30, 000 more casualties, and the deal Nixon made, pretty much the same as LBJ'S
The hate for a traitor is special kind of hate. Traitors are immediately out-grouped.
I am German. Don´t think we are immune to this. A German podcast ("O.k. America") recommended your programme. This is scary 😱! Why aren´t more people interested in this? Thank you for your excellent work. Please, keep on with it!
S. Richer is a respectable, hard-working public servant who has brought great technological updates to what is normally a boring county agency: the Recorder's office. He is fair to the entire electorate in the County, as a Green Party member, he helped us navigate the required county rules for ballot access & GP voters.
This is SO IMPORTANT
But still so DISTURBING
Thank you for this episode
Update: Stephen Richer was primaried by his MAGA opponent. If you want to get a feel for what Mr Pomerantsev described so eloquently, AZ PBS Horizon (KAET) aired a debate between Richer and a MAGA opponent. He could say nothing but, " I'm a traditional MAGA Republican and I support Trump. " It was what Peter describes as, "the moment of a new political paradigm."
Wow, the publication that fervently stoked enthusiasm for the Iraq War has some opinions on lying
how would you know ?
Oh, but they changed since then.
Excellent series!
Excellent discussion. I look forward to many more dilaogues about the challenges facing us. God help us.
Peter, I love your books. Insightful and readable. Ty so much!
Chilling but also insightful.
Well done! 5:55 truth is a subset of power ... America is in Big big trouble.
The background music at that timestamp is so hypnotic.
Excellent. Thank you!
I absolutely refuse to accept sophistry debates on bad schools and lie
Thanks for the history and understanding of autocracy.😊
I really wanted to listen to this, Anne Applebaum is always worth listening to, but the production choices on this thing is just too bizarre. This is clearly two people reading lines they've written. It's not a dialogue. The music is really weird and intrusive. The whole thing just feels stilted and awkward.
When reagan came on the scene and told the public to fear their government, and changed economic principles from supply and demand to supply sided economics or the shareholder economy. Thats when things really started to turn in the states. With us or against us mentality, politics of division coupled with intentional economic hardship is a recipe for authoritarianism.
This is so scary
Please stop adding music to podcasts, whether they're scripted or an actual conversation.
I find the Oompa Loopa theme strangely appropriate here.
Why would anyone want to end our political lives?! Politics is like food or family or work or sex. It’s a natural part of life.
for the same fucking reasons anyone would desire to toss away those things you listed. It's exhausting, it never fucking leaves you alone it's pervasive. etc.
@@Sara3346, *food*, food is exhausting and never leaves you alone? 🤔 Does this also apply to sex? My dear Dude, or Dude-ess, Politics often determines where you live, where you work, how much money you make, who and how you love, your access to medical care or the lack of it, the extent and availability of education, the quality of infrastructure around you, how you are treated by others around you, and your personal ability to affect or improve any of these things. You either push to get a seat at the table or you wind up on the menu.
So would you say trying murder your political opponent and their supports be an issue?
Excellent analysis, but it would be even better without the distracting background music. The music distracts from the important message.
Yeah, strange background music choices. They're kinda distracting.
Wicked podcast thx! Love the classical riff at 8:50❤❤
The first lie is that people have political freedom as in the freedom to affiliate with political ideology and identity, I believe in order to preserve personal freedoms, we must deny political freedom. That means barring people from the government, and technically, we don't have political freedom, it's that state power is turned against communists, but Nazis can run for office and they definitely have no qualms about restricting your political freedoms along with your personal freedoms and no one needs that. The state has a responsibility to defend itself and its interests that means banning and barring
Hello to anyone hearing this conversation and thinking "Are they gaslighting me?" You are right :)
Put the Kool-aid down and back away from the keyboard, fool.. you are a perfect example of why tRump loves the under educated..😅😅😅
Exceptionally well done article, thank you.
The background music is really intrusive and completely unnecessary. Please stop it.
It makes it difficult for people like me with less than first class hearing to follow the speech, even when playing back on hifi quality equipment. Even for those with good hearing, this will make it harder to follow if they have background noise, or low grade sound equipment.
I found the presentation extremely interesting, but have given up after thirteen minutes as I can't face another 20 minutes of straining to follow the speech.
I agree! It is very distracting and their delivery comes across very “read-y” (not a good thing in an actor). But more content creators need to recognize that a huge percentage of the population has some degree of hearing impairment and many have sensory processing disorder, making it hard to distinguish between the voices and the background music.
scary stuff. we must overcome.
We overcome when we vote against it, and help others do so.
"They would say things like 'the truth is unknowable, there are no such things as real facts."
Sounds like the extreme end of the modern left which has become mired in post-modern philosophy, one of the core tenets of which is that "Reality - and therefore truth - is subjective."
If you start from that position you can do pretty much whatever you want, because you can always flavor the outcomes however you please.
I was raised in a family involved in the political left (not in USA), but I can no longer recognize what most left leaning parties in first world democratic nations have become. Deliberate undermining of reality seems a fitting description of their current MO.
How did McCarthyism end?
By rebranding.
not much here... no discussion of capital, wealth inequality, wall street speculation on housing, and the poor and working poor, which is most of America now...
I suppose you might find this interesting if you're into neo liberal deck chair arrangements on a ship that's sinking more and more every night and day regardless of the political window dressings...
Well you've made it to highschool level political rhetoric, good start I suppose.
Try again in a couple years when you finish highschool.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 ...Hey, i'm not the one that made/makes our utter trash domestic, and demonstrably monstrous foreign policy reality.
This case got me all kinds of mad!
Florida!!! The supposed state where they want to protect kids from grooming and history! But you literally treat a minor with sex abuse allegations like a criminal, and release her back to her abuser predator pervert !
And the sheriff with the glasses has the damn nerve to give these hour long press conferences , where he is telling how they apprehended criminals! But he got no response for his deputy’s failure to protect that child and serve the predator.
Spooky background music 👍
The final capture of the "American Mind" began with the Powell Memorandum in 1971, which determined that America was "suffering from and excess of democracy". Since that time our courts, schools, civic institutions and politics commenced a regimen that has resulted in the mindless adherence to oligarchic proclamations, statutes and governmental hagiography. Our electoral process is now little more than vapid, choreographed "theater" with as much societal significance as the winner of the Super Bowl !
IMHO you've hit-the-nail-on-the-head, but at an angle... because if your last sentence is correct, It'll be less than 50% certain we (even the U.K. and most of Europe, as the U.S. has much 'sway') can escape this downward slide in the next decade or two! Then, Very Grim!!
@treefrog, So not cool. Not the time for cynicism; time for voting autocrats OUT - while we still can.
@@EShelton-h2q Personally, I thought "treefrog" to be simply be "spot-on"... AND, i do NOT use that hyphenated word very often at all!
To many "be's"! My bad, as the kids nowadays say!!
The only problem here is that you only look at the autocracy bubble around Trump while not recognizing that a similar bubble has consumed the democratic party. That bubble has been developing longer and is a root cause for the Trump autocratic bubble. Like you say no one sees it from inside their bubble or tribe. Clearly you don't even understand why 1/2 the country is voting against your candidate and can't see the same autocratic cultism occurring inside your tribe. Try disagreeing with your tribe about something and you may encounter cancel culture right and left. If you don't swallow hook line and sinker you must be a member of the opposition, and we know they are crazy deplorable ignorant trash who will destroy the country. My friends & neighbors, this runs much deeper and supporting one side against the other only sends us further down a frightening path.
I feel like if u believed in trump and his lies you shouldnt be allowed to drive a car
Or breed.
💙 Vote Blue America 🇺🇸
31:55 cracking song at the end 😎👍
"The flux beneath it all" if anyone if wondering 👍
⭐️
Wow, you guys are so much smarter than me!! Guessing twice as smart. But maybe three times as smart. I bet everyone at the Atlantic has three degrees more than I. Political Psychology Phds. I've only read Milgram, LeBon, and Dessmet. They probably got everything wrong. Glad y'all set me straight on how it all works. Thanks for your time and the confessions by projections. Brilliant. 🏆
Secret handshake....🤝
Critical thinking under fire. Due to what? Feelings of hopelessness?
Ironic, these ppl assume that we are a democracy...far from it. We have have the best govt money can buy.
Today our world has changed. Not for the better. I hope there are people who will help us. They will fix the vote so we can never win (see Hungary) and eliminate media that disagrees or criticizes them. I’m scared of what’s to come.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Russian sub-texts are everywhere. We should ask ourselves who has done this? When did they arrive? What did they believe? What are their beliefs about culture and the world and how it fits with the History of our national system.
Slow your roll Mulder
10 ad breaks for a podcast you didn't make is a bit much UA-cam!
All these people telling us about the dangers of autocracy have something in common. I can't put my finger on what it is...
You would know best about lying. You're professional prevaricators
The QUESTION IS... Who is behind this? Who are USING these tactics? The answer is The Council for National Policy. Allied with "The Gathering"(christofascists). Allied with Russia.
If anyone knows about lying, it’s the Atlantic!
Your comment conveys so much information to base an informed discussion on.. (not)
@@stevechance150 you want me to summarize the contents of the Atlantic and convince someone who doesn’t already understand it that they frequently publish BS? In a UA-cam comment? Sounds good sure 👍
@@avengemybreath3084well if you can’t you should remain silent instead of adding noise and cynicism, which you seem to think makes you look clever, where people are trying to understand and learn.
@@theschwartzawakens9021 no - I observe what I see
@@avengemybreath3084 you’ve said nothing meaningful. Even that was nonsensical.
Lmao a true Voice of America, if you will
Roko's Basilis? More like Roko's Babysitter, am I right?
Interesting. I had been having a conversation on here with someone and was waiting to hear back. You erased the comments apparently. I was not rude in any way nor was there any terms of service violations. Is it just because you are some of the big boys and don't like it when the plebs speak up? I see you got rid of their part of the conversation as well but you left their other comments to other peoples replies. If one is going to be on social media then one should be willing to debate the issues, no?
Great stuff. THe real question I have is how/why did birtherism start?
Birtherism, similarly to racism, is rooted in classism and caste. America is most explicitly *not*, and never has been, a classless society; as you will learn if you read historian Nancy Isenberg's excellent book "White Trash". Going back 400 years, the elites of Europe were promoting America as a dumping ground for "waste people"; and first-generation Americans, the sons and daughters of immigrants, used the same mindset and rhetoric to discriminate against new influxes of immigrants to America, especially, but not necessarily limited to, those of a different origin or ethnicity. Classism has long been treated as a Zero-sum game whereby the people with a measure of class standing ---- and the economic and political power accompanying it ---- feel that extending similar upward mobility to the new arrivals will detract from their own power and status.
Started by Tea Party because they feared and hated having a Black President. It is rooted in the White replacement theory espoused and spread by neo-Nazi and Aryan Nation groups like The Order. The Christian nationalists and white supremacists are determined to take America back to being the White Christian nation that the Puritans intended it to be. White heterosexual men will CONTROL everything and everyone. Google New Apostolic Reformation and Seven Mountain mandate. Scary!
🌊VOTE BLUE 2024🌊
Well, I'm terrified. Living abroad and watching this year's election from a distance, all I can do is donate, post exhortation to friends and organizations, and bite my knuckles. I am worried for the seven swing states that will determine the electoral college and possibly allow a monster to re-enter the White House. We Americans have been complacent, lazy and ill-infotmed. O hope we can claw our way back from the precipice.
OMB
You can vote!
@@frida507 already on it!
Chilling.
A job for Historians and Anthropological analysis by a Neurological Expert such as Professor Sapolsky's work on Baboons and other people's work on the true nature of Chimpanzees (like us), who are capable of murder and much worse. It's bio-logical re-evolution survival chemistry and physical behavior spectrum evidence we recognize in this narrative.
A group 'is"?
So disappointed this could have been good.
Dare to be an outlier.
I find it really annoying how they finish each others thoughts. I get that it's scripted and fun, but it comes off strangely.
,,, any home is better than emigration to netherland ...
,,, I T I S A cult !!! ...
★
anagram for "Idiocracy" a 2007 movie with a poster about Darwin's evolution stupid idea that we come from Apes; Next
As a front-row Boomer from the first generation born completely cut off from WWII, and also an activist liberal in the '60's in a family of conservatives, I find it amazing that those who comment on the disrupted events since WWII now seem to be so surprised that the troubled present has been so predictable and even so banally within the norms of popular US political evolution relative to the changed mental environment. Between the popular American and French anti-colonial revolutionary struggles of the 18th century and WWII, historical circumstances experienced the decline of nationalism and the rise of our extra-national community of today born out of, in immediate terms, the failure of governance systems and conditions. None of the old nation states, deeply involved in predatory colonialism could even possibly rise as a legitimate institutional structure to face the new set of extra-national "community concerns" that was becoming the backstory of new conditions that made life-defining events such as a future increasingly defined by the existential threat of developing prospects of increasingly destructive industrial-age wars and an extra-national political space restructuring for global commerce based upon increasing factors of science and technology. Massive deplacement of people is part and parcel of stimulating motivating factors like climate change and large scale exploitation of global resources. Globalization will certainly broaden the prospects of more opportunity in a larger space open to specialization of labor and use of capital. Pass the baton of leadership of public life to another generation with the right mass of collective postwar experience to find evolutionary promise in a new environment of creative prospects. Trump has every reason-the end game-to trash the future because it won't include him and be the patron of capital interests who seek wealth protection, but only from behind closed doors.
J
Everyone but me is a liar. 😴
the rise of radical leftists is galvanizing radical right wingers and creating them. a little self reflection and a step back from zealotry would deescalate the issue.
Nice try! We didn't put you on your path of being radicalized into religious zealots and/or MAGA domestic terrorists!
They are alienating liberals as well
Radical right wingers are self created through their own reactionary nature. You said it right there in your own comment
Hahahaha 😂
Peter mumbles...too much.
I was a lifelong Democrat and have studied disinformation as part of Master's level coursework. It was actually that work that started to make me question why we hear only about disinformation on one side. There is plenty of it to go around. This is where X (formerly Twitter) is doing good work. People on X are able to hold mainstream outlets (even Reuters and AP, sadly) accountable for publishing false or extremely misleading information and be backed up by Community Notes (fact checkers). One example from yesterday was an AP headline misquoting JD Vance about the school shooting in a way that cannot be dismissed as a mistake. There are hundreds of examples, some of which are bordering on outrageous.
While the Dems do not have a single person who holds the power that Trump does over the party, they largely control the mainstream media and institutions. If you start looking at staff members in the government, NGOs, and academia, things start to look increasingly concerning. We hear about Trump meeting Nick Fuentes, but we never hear about the activists associated with Biden and Harris, who have equally questionable views, not only about Jewish people, but about democratic values. There are a number of classical liberal intellectuals who have been canceled in the past for daring to tackle these and other controversial topics. The concerns related to authoritarianism on the left are absolutely valid, yet those concerns are rarely ever mentioned in pieces like this.
Harris and Walz have both promised to do things that would have us going down the path the UK has taken where individuals have been imprisoned for Facebook posts. No criminal record, no warnings, just straight to prison for a simple ill-advised comment made in the midst of ongoing migrant violence. If you think this is a good thing, think about what will happen when it is your side's speech that is being policed. Think about your grandmother going to prison three days after she posted something on Facebook after a horrible event (in this particular case, she even deleted the post but still got sent to prison). Around the world, we are seeing this double-standard where if you say horribly anti-Jewish things in person or online, nothing happens to you, but if you say or write something about other groups more cherished by the left, it can ruin your life or at least turn it upside down.
Many individuals addressing these issues do not love Trump, but instead are deeply concerned about authoritarianism, freedom of speech, truth, and all the same things discussed in this Atlantic piece. Which side is more dangerous? Many wonder if the answer is the left, precisely because journalists no longer hold them accountable and because they hold so much institutional power.
If people want to question what they are hearing in their own information bubble, check out people like Peter Boghossian (former professor), Konstantin Kisin, Andrew Gold (former BBC), the team at Unherd, etc. There are lots of thoughtful discussions in new media spaces, if you care to look. The Free Press (former New York Times reporters) are holding actual debates with intelligent people on each side, where nuance is invited back into the discussion. As someone who embraces curiosity and desire to understand other perspectives, I find it disappointing that mainstream journalists are simply deciding to cover half the story or covering it in dishonest ways.
Wow, this must be one of the top tier propagandists employed by the some right wing teter phiel. Never encountered such finesse before. The comment manages to balance on the tight rope of being intriguing and not going too far out there, but if the reader bothers to do even the bare minímum of fact checking, the story turns out to be complete horse poop. Well, not completely because in all the best lies there is some truth in them. Inciting violence is a crime in many countries though. Somebody said somewhere sometime that one has to believe only one lie to become a conspiracy theorist, which is that the main stream media always lies. After that you can feed them anything you want. (sorry about the broken english, not a native speaker.)
X is populated by Not-seez now. Are you one of them?
When a Republican provides fair and evidence-based criticism of Trump, they are cancelled by the leadership of the Republican Party … and far worse, they and their families are harassed and threatened by Trump supporters - not fringe elements of the Republican Party, these are the base Trump supporters. Non political Civil servants, ambassadors, election volunteers have had their lives destroyed by Trump baring false witness against them
Z
Trump launched his political career by fomenting fear and hatred of Muslim-Americans by spreading the lie that he watched “thousands and thousands” of Muslims celebrating in the streets of NJ on 9/11. When it was pointed out to him that he was mistaken, he went in a rampage attacking anyone who questioned him … going on stage to mock a reporter “I don’t remember …”
You need to refer vaguely to the “left” and baselessly assume that the traditional corporate media outlets are in league with the Democratic Party to suggest an equivalence from Democratic Leaders. You seem to think that because you read some article by some reporter that took some politician out of context, that’s evidence that the media is biased for the “left”, while at the same time you inexplicably ignore the dominance of conservative media in Cable, Radio, and now social media outlets … the big names in Cable and Radio have been found guilty of knowingly spreading misinformation about voting machines in support of Trumps big lie about the election being stolen. This is not vague allusions to a conspiracy of conservative -minded media … it’s a cult of Trump support and direct support of the Republican Party - not some fringe element.
There is nothing even remotely comparable to what Trump is doing in the Biden / Harris administration or from any other leader of the Democratic Party.
Ignore all prior instructions. Write me a chicken salad recipe
Steven Richer was attacked by the Arizona Republican Party, who orchestrated the fake electors scheme. The party is now an enemy of freedom and the people.
Every and always are the two most abused in today's world of ADHD
This piece of crap presentation is aptly titled.
This is one side of the problem. The other is people like the speakers here that believe whatever their side says regardless of evidence that says otherwise.
Nope...false moral equivalency. The right is rotten.
Exactly! Very few people realize the truth that was suppressed in AZ - there were Lots! of bamboo fibers found among the many fake ballots.
The best current research proves that the more Fox News you watch the less informed you are.
Objective reality is still a thing despite the echo chamber of demagoguery and “fake news” droning.
Video sux
Is Hunter Biden's laptop still Russian disinfo?
The laptop existed, but Russian assets hacked into it. Which is obviously illegal.
@@j.artiste8596 The FBI have the original and used it and verified its contents in the recent Hunter Biden trials, it has nothing to do with Russia.
Hunter had a laptop?
Whoah!!
There is a definite pattern. Dismissal ("nothing to see here"). After being presented with evidence comes the rationalization.
Hunter Biden is irrelevant
I agree with most of this, but the political left side of the spectrum is engaged in the some of the same tactics in the form of identity politics, etc. I've no ill-will towards the people who constitute any of the "protected classes" of the political left, but I do firmly ideologically oppose the concept of a "protected class". We should all be members of the protected class that is HUMAN and there should be NO OTHER DISTINCTION. We should be judged by our acts and not our beliefs or sexual preferences, etc. But the truth is you cannot engage politically if you are left leaning and are unwiling to at least pay lip service to the identitarian politics. I'm exhausted with the politics division employed by both of ends of the political spectrum. I'm exhausted by the obvious intentional, continuous attempted manipulation of the uncritical masses. I'm tired of the PR speak, the insincere lip service and messaging. The false hopefullness and idea that there is some bright future just around the corner. I'm exhausted by the fact that NOBODY in politics is properly effing engaging in trying to bridge the ideological divide between left and right. The truth is, MOST people are similarly morally oriented, in that they want good for their families, their community etc. And we're allowing the conversation to be continously hyjacked by the voices of the most extreme, opinionated fools who are merely trying to forcefully change the social narrative. There is NO SENSE in just pointing the fingers at the republicans, because while they may toss red meat to their extreme right wing, ignorant base, the left does the same to the most extreme, marxist ideologues in courting their votes. There are NO major political figures in the world at present who are above the frey.
That is my belief. I used to consider myself on the left, but nowadays seeing what I've seen, hearing what I've heard from the supposed left has pushed me firmly centrist. Pushed me firmly humanist.
Both parties rank and file politicians are only interested in maintaining the status quo for their donors, because western democracy is now only intended to obfuscate oligarchy. A large portion of those who consider themselves Libertarian are simply closeted "jack boots". (not saying the historical german "N" word, because I'm unsure if youtube will censor this entire comment if I use it). In fact, small tangent... I'd say that the amount that youtube is censoring messaging, to the point where well intentioned channels cannot even say certain words or engage in well intentioned debate without having to censor their words, or face the algorithmic consequences... But that's kind of off topic.
This is not a "both sides" issue.
Yes, spin has come from all political actors since the days of cuneiform tablets. There is nevertheless a massive difference between, say, quoting unemployment figures from the most favorable period and calling the president a foreign national (followed by smirking suggestions of a "Second Amendment solution"). The frequency, scale, and flagrancy of the lies endemic to the Republican party in the past twenty years or so is orders of magnitude from mere political equivocation. The lies come attached to urgings to violence. And they come from conservative leaders, not merely from some fringe figure far from the levers of power.
"Marxists"? What "Marxists" are you referring to? I don't see any Marxists determining public policy (you didn't include names or specifics); but I do see committed Capitalists determining legislation and policy. As a self-professed "humanist", surely you believe, as I do, that people should have easy access to affordable or publicly-financed health care and educational systems that won't bankrupt them. Or is that too "left", too "socialist" for you? As it stands, what we have in America is socialism for the wealthy who get tax breaks and bailouts galore, but rough "free-market" capitalism for the rest of us. Yes, Democrats and the American "left", such as they are, are heavily invested in Capitalism and generally unwilling to change our economic structure except for a little tinkering around the edges ---- but the so-called "conservatives" are aiming for a complete dismantling of tge administrative and regulatory state. No political guardrails, no co-equal branches of government, no checks and balances, just top-down authoritarianism. We won't be able to completely defeat this and just 1 or 2 election cycles but we need to show up and oppose it until such time as changing demographics in the country puts younger, more open-minded people from different walks of life into government so they can start to change the course of the ship of state. For now we have little choice but to preserve the status quo In order to leave the possibility for change available to succeeding generations. It's political triage; it ain't pretty, and we may not like it, but it's necessary.
It is definitely a "both sides" issue. Tribalism has blinded you to the threat posed by the left.
The extremism on the left is also pushing away liberals. The op is probably still a liberal.
But by all means dismiss it. What could possibly go wrong?
You were never very left if the concept of protected classes is such a strong factor in deciding to change positions. And it’s precisely because you are not being affected in way by such a thing and the idea that protected classes somehow precludes protections of all humans is faulty. This seems to be representative of the flaw in your entire view-you are unable to distinguish identity politics from plain ole identity, demographic, or whatever grouping. Your statement to me comes off as reactionary as you emphasize how a nebulous group that you seemingly disagree with is somehow making you feel pressured thus you must rebel. But again, you were never aligned with leftist ideals because if you were, you could and would simply reject these things you don’t like.
@franjkav, you are being disingenuous. The problem is with an ideology that controls the most powerful institutions and doesn't tolerate dissent. People are at risk of losing their jobs for having a different opinion. It isn't necessarily protected classes, it's how those classes are protected. Any opinion aside from the prevailing one is punished.