Gla1ve vs Karrigan. Who's the GOAT?
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- I TWEET 645 TIMES PER DAY: / launders
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no timestamps on this puppy, it goes back and forth. talked this topic to death but just wanted to throw some points in a video. mucho respect to all players discussed in these videos. i'm arguing over very few percentages and mostly just using these topics as leverage to go over some history of the game. whoever your goat is i respect it, besides voo. if ur voo i disagree 💘🙉
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0:00 - Intro
0:30 - AceZone
0:57 - Karrigan vs Gla1ve
11:00 - Conclusion
Thumbnails by / daveydemeo
Editing by / vonvorter - Ігри
all that being said. this is my real opinion on IGLs:
twitter.com/launders/status/1616878238189645824?s=20 💯
We also have to remember that while karrigan played with world class players, he also developed tons of talent as well. Karrigan is the reason faze became a threat in the first place, before their star studded lineup in 2018, faze was still a team to be scared of even with players like kioshima and allu. Karrigan also made a name for mouzsports with frozen, ropz, woxic, and chrisj. It's amazing what he can do with new talent. Gla1ve has failed to develop any recent talent on his latest lineups, but that still doesnt deny that he was able to command the best players in the world to achieve cs' biggest dynasty.
that's true he has developed a lot of talent over the years and its been amazing to watch
Don't forget karrigan mostly played in international teams and won with one, which is not that easy
@@colzimo international team argument is not valid,after certain time u can get hang of speaking English and play with different country people,infact international teams r lot better than native teams,that's why we r seeing decline now a days in native teams and rise of international teams.
@@colzimo yeah, no. Not for 2022 faze. If the 2018 faze won, then yeah... As Karrigan came over from Danish speaking team, Guardian from RU, Olof from SE, but 2022 faze... all of these guys been playing with EN comms for the majority of their careers up to that point. Sorry, international argument is not valid here.
@@The_condom_man @esdf so shallow to downplay winning with an international roster. Mind you, English is a SECOND LANGUAGE for most of these players (bar twistzz for faze) they way they call and think, they do it in their native language and translate it to English unless they've completely mastered English which most of them haven't. International rosters were so rare because orgs and teams didn't want to make that risk and the first international g2 in 2015 was the first good one which eventually, faze bought over. Guess what, Karrigan came in and made them into S TIER TOURNAMENT WINNERS, before olof and guardian came. Guess what, he also did it with mousports and now he won a MAJOR with faze AND an IGS. Gla1ve is amazing don't get me wrong but trying to say winning anything with an international roster isn't a valid argument is the shallowest and dumbest argument. Karrigan and faze set the standard and meta for international teams, look at how many orgs have gone international trying to follow them, especially NAVI with s1mple. And fun fact, not many of these international rosters have won anything and have even failed to their standards, such as NIP. Only Ence and vitality recently. People have adapted but karrigan paved the way for international rosters being viable and being potential champions. So stop it. I probably would think Gla1ve is still the best igl ever even though I support faze but once again, don't play dumb with things like these. Use your brain instead of spewing shit just to hate karrigan/dick ride gla1ve.
Loving the new style of video, but becoming nostalgic for the demo reviews😃
next one will be in CS2. and there will be many :D
@@launders 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩
@@laundersyeah I think demo reviews are really missing but the news vids a really nice aswell :)
Ayo, we play now, yea?
@@janbr1767no demo reviews cause its break i think
I'm gonna be completely honest, this might the best type of CS:GO related content on youtube there is. Your passion for the game is just so bright and you're a big ass pillar of the CS community so please, never leave us. Sending u love from Sweden
I like Lau a lot, but he doesn’t have much competition tbh.
thank you thank you!
fr, also goated intro.
@@nickv3085 oh Nick with his small dick just had to be a little bitch
When you think about Gla1ve you can clearly see the spot when CSGO became super competitive, Gla1ve doesn't only changed Astralis but the game itself, all the CS we watch today is because Gla1ve at some point changed Astralis, Karrigan can win a lot, but he never changed the way the game is played from the botton of Silver MM to the Pro level.
argument against gla1ve is that he always had the same core of players, one of the greatest duos of all time in dupreeh and device. gla1ve has never had to adapt in the same way as karrigan has, and when youre ranking IGLs i personally think adaptibility is the greatest trait one could have
@@paroxysm6437 I mean, I dont think Karrigan is overrated at all but cmon, Karrigan got grouped with the best CSGO squad ever (to not mention the last major RMR.......)
@@Kerttis Yeah I think the versatility is the best characteristic of Karrigan, not to mention the impressive ability to work with young players, the argument against him is he really need super individual talents to make the team work and when one player wont show up, the team choke.
@@Kerttis i think winning is the greatest trait you can have, i also think not throwing on tsm is a remarkable achievement
@@paroxysm6437 Yes that's true, but in this case, both have the exact same amount of times bein grouped (7), but in playoffs for exemple, Karrigan managed to get in four semis and got two finals, Gla1ve do it five times and got four finals, but Gla1ve did it in 13 major participations, Karrigan in 17.
Gla1ve had the higher peaks and changed the face of CSGO for years. Unfortunately he's also had the lowest lows the last couple of years so the recency bias will always favour karrigan and his comeback story.
Can you call it "recency" bias tho if its literally more than 2 years since glaive has been good
@@bobbobo2568 rly man, people love to throw recency bias around...
@@bobbobo2568 2 yars not a long time for cs. astralis was the undisputed best in the world for at least two years when no one could even compete. you belittling glaives success because its been 2+ years and favoring karrigan cause he just won in the last year is literally the definition of recency bias. youre ignoring karrigans years and years of failure and choking with the best players in the world because it was 2+ years ago.
@@bobbobo25682 years of being on top means so much more than being at the bottom for 2 years lol
@@bobbobo2568 karrigan is good but gla1ve is real goat igl without a doubt.
love this video lau. I have just watched the reflections interview with FeTiSh who basically was the teacher to many of the danish igls and have played with both of the players, including dupree, dev1ce, x9p1x, Cadian, and CajunB. Really interesting and I would highly recommend people to watch it if they like a backstory of how they, Glaive and Karrigan and got to become some of the best to ever play the game, byThoorin
Gla1ve in his prime was amazing but I'm pretty sure Astralis success had a lot to do with all the great minds involved in the team at the time. It will be very interesting (and weird) to see Astralis without him.
Also: imagine being short like Curry!
Only 1.88 / 6'2 lol
shorttt couldnt be me
I love everything about these videos. It flows very well because of your demeanor, it sounds like you’re talking completely from memory. Also the visuals and overall style is just a vibe.
thank you. it is just memory. when i write stuff down it sounds forced so i stopped. i do miss writing scripts though
@@launders I’m down for whatever. Didn’t ever seem forced to me in other videos but the casual flow of this is quite noticeable. But either way, I’m here for every video.
More interesting than zywoo vs s1mple debate somehow
Well ya cause zywoo is better
@@pignoob9551 ZyGoat >>>>> anyone
yeah cuz s1mple is the GOAT.
For me, karrigan will always be the goat igl for calling the most perfect game of cs go ever, the iem cologne '22 finals.
Sure, objectively glaive might be the better igl (majors, era defense etc.) but the sheer quality of calling (in so many high pressure situations) in that final has never been surpassed in all my years of watching professional CS.
The Air Canada call was only the poster moment of that series, there were a hundred others sprinkled throughout.
For karrigan, the struggle was before the success whereas for glaive, the struggle comes after the success.
If you were to put them against each other, I believe karrigan would be a better caller in 51 out of 100 matches. Simply because he's much better at adapting than glaive, and that shit really matters over a large number of trials.
this, achievement wise glaive wins, entertainment and carrier story wise karrigan wins, karrigan has conducted so many thrilling exciting games, keeping us nerds excited to watch pro scene, while Ast games are a snooze feast.
nah karrichoke has always has the inability to frag and has been hidden behind his star players for so long
@@landaxe2 he's an igl, he's not expected to frag. Is an entry fragger supposed to call mid round? No right? Karrigan is a poor fragger these days, but still manages to bring random teams up to world class standards. That's a great igl right there. Meanwhile glaive without device, xyp or dup (and even with him lately) choking 14-6 leads (just like karrigan at many points).
A great igl should get better with experience, glaive has done the opposite. Karrigan on the other hand is making teams choke (niko and simple most often) these days.
In either case, karrigan calls are way more entertaining to watch. Whereas every astralis game in their "era" was a textbook snoozefest.
You take more risks, you lose more. But you also win great. That's the strategy karrigan has always followed. So it's easy for me to put him over glaive, as a fan of counter strike purely. Not to take anything away from glaive, he's definitely no. 2 for me, but karrigan is just more human, more entertaining plus a much better igl to play with for the pros. Twistzz went to faze simply cause karrigan was going there, despite having a choker reputation preceding him.
Winning majors is not an igl effort, it's a team effort. If your team has ego stars like niko, you ain't winning anything. If your team handles the way you want them to, you'll win everything. It's certainly a lot more luck based than it seems (e.g. 2 of astralis 4 majors were against under dogs) so you can't use it as a metric for gauging "IGL" qualities.
E.g. Device has 4 majors to his name, is he a better AWPer than s1mple? No right?
Same with igling, major wins or fragging power ain't everything. It's a lot more contextual than that.
@@klx6265 oh no here's this argument that the igl isn't supposed to frag. well then he may as well be a coach. only scrubs say the igl is not meant to frag.
@@landaxe2 It's not a hard and fast rule, of course it's great if your igl can frag (e.g. Fallen, glaive etc.). However, it's not **required** for him to frag, depends entirely on preference. Some igls like karrigan and art prioritize info gain by pushing and then calling the round. Some like to reserve and play from the backend. It's a problem if you don't frag and don't get results. But unlike art, karrigan has plenty trophies in his cabinet to prove that his style works just as well. Karrigan isn't a reliable fragger, and that's okay given his role is all I'm saying.
P.S: The dude is 32+ years old, give him a break against these amped up kids lmao. If you remember, karrigan was amongst the world's best fraggers in 1.6 and to some extent in early cs go as well, but he's kinda moved away from that, still getting results tho.
I commented on your last video after glaive was benched, for you to make a video on glaive, but you straight up to the point made a video on glaive vs karrigan. Goat content. Keep it up Lau❤️.
Really enjoying this new format, hope demo review isn't gone though
i still watch demos but the next demo vids will be in CS2, whenever it releases.
I would argue karrigan actually did chang the meta in a very important way: he started the era of international rosters. So many teams are going international now and it's hard to argue that it didn't start with 2022 FaZe proving that a roster of 5 different nationalities can win everything there is to win
Yea this exactly. Teams that used to have national lineups back in 2018/2019 are now mostly international
The meta Karrigan set with international rosters is if you stack the best talent in the game you can ignore being super tactical and win based of off individual brilliant
@@ryanharris7891 This.
@@ryanharris7891 but what did they win back then with that philosophy?
@@ryanharris7891 Stacking pure talents didn't work before and hardly works even now. Faze 2022/2023 doesn't even has the very best talents yet it works while the 2018 version didn't.
Current G2 is better than Faze all around firepower wise yet they still falls short for a long time. Firepower is not the only thing that makes international rosters click.
Despite gla1ve winning so many major, he feel stuck in his era and unable to evolve along with the pace of the game and meanwhile Karrigan still can adapt and he still can work with many other players. Right now, I hope gla1ve can get into other org like TSM and play with players that he is not used to.
because hes been trying to put together another Danish roster without having enough Danish talent to do it. If Gla1ve joined G2 I would love to see how he could get Niko Hunter JKS and M0nesy working and he is a massive fragging increase on Hooxi
Love your content Lau! when is the "Argument for device" video coming out?
been waitin for this
every day with a launders upload is a good day
why would you skip the Karrigan MOUZ run
i think it might have been edited out. besides the cs_summit bit. i wasn't one of the people who underrated ropz and frozen however, they are also 2 amazing players karrigan had the pleasure to play with
@@launders I vividly remember this run and gla1ve desk slams.
great video as always, great points. Both of them are def great IGLs, but gla1ve is just so much more legendary.
Karrigan for sure, he proved him self in ways Gla1ve just didn't. karrigan is leader first and foremost, he learned to handle people, build teams, develop talent and lead them to very top. Those are qualities that define the role for me. Gla1ve has great mind for the game but if you take away astralis from him what is left ? So Gla1ve would have to at least demonstrate success again in order to be in contention for me as best IGL. Can he take reins of the team like karrigan did with mouz and built it into that monster ?
As long answer to that question is I don't know then I can't really put him in contention as best IGL.
karrichoke, yeah nah
Holyshit you know nothing about cs keep licking faze's boots (:
i had a dissertation thought out in my head but it all went out the window when you said you always have money for a deag and now im queuing mm to buy deag no armor on every eco + pistol rounds
Glaive had zonic. He hasn't been able to do anything without the astralis lineup and without zonic. That makes it seem like he had less impact on the wins and was propped up by his teammates and zonic
Honestly. No mention of the best coach of all time and glav1e's mid calling once he left or how Zonic got another major with vitality.
it was device that mattered the most, not zonic. zonic went on to have zywoo. those two awpers are responsible for more tournament wins than any igl coach or support player could ever do for a team.
@@launders True, but when weighing the effectiveness of one IGL vs another, the coaches also have to be taken into account.
And if you want to attribute more to the star awper than the IGL for their wins, then device is obviously better than broky, or any other awper karrigan worked with (except maybe guardian).
I don't think glaive would have been able to achieve what karrigan achieved if they swapped lineups and coaches
@@kingbrownie207 are you forgetting karrigan played for a LONG time with device aswell? device was also a top 3 player back then.
Karrigan might be in a slump right now, but his teams are always competitive (except when he was on loan to ENVY). He's always managed to find a way to eke out wins. He's never had a 2 year slump of barely ever getting out of groups.
The fact that we even talk about karrigan being the goat tells a lot. I love his story and how he refused to give up but glaive is just the goat.
Given gla1ve's fall off in team performance recently I think it is also valid to call in how much of that innovation of tactics was gla1ve and how much was zonic. Obviously the mid-round calling is down to gla1ve but I wasn't looking deep enough into the game at that point so couldn't really say.
Daze as the background video @10:07 takes the cake haa
I say as the single highest compliment I could give a CS pro: gla1ve is one of the only players where if allegations came out that he was cheating the whole time, my reaction would be "ah, yeah that makes sense." He seemed to always call perfect rotations on T and CT side, and it felt like he hit more bullets through smokes than he did on enemies he could see.
Lau dropping “not big on recency bias” before the 3 minute summary about Faze’s recent showings
"what is the HE of karrigans calling?" id say international rosters. nobody belived in them or made them before karrigan made them work
true thats a good one
What can be said for certain, the battle is not over
3:06 I have seen it live and I couldn´t have believed it was karrigan... insane!
I think it comes down to whether you measure igls by their pure calling or if you include their rifling and individual skills as well. If you don't then it's Karrigan if you do it's Gla1ve
if your mechanics would mean you are otherwise dead weight outside of your calling i think that should at least subtract, we have to rate players in all aspects of their job, and igl also needs to be able to hold his own mechanically and gameplay wise
It's obviously hard to debate against the IGL of the most successful roster of all time. However. I remember during the Fnatic era TSM was one of the few teams that actually stood a chance against them. Every Trophy Gla1ve has in his cabinet is with the same team basically +- Magisk/Kjaerbye. So without a doubt he was instrumental and also moved the sport forward in a way but it clearly also was a team that clicked in every level considering he has not been able to replicate it afterwards with other players.
Dude your content is awesome
The only one who stopped Astralis in the 2nd half of 2019 was Karrigan at EPL. Also back then in 2018 he beat Gla1ve's team at IEM Katowice, Sydney and Chicago(Astralis haven't won a single map) , and FaZe was the only team who was close to beat Astralis in BO3 at Faceit major.
I hope gla1ve goes far this major
Thinking on it now, Karrigan put international CS on the map like no other and I feel like it's pretty safe to say that he truly did prove that international CS is the new wave with both starting the FaZe train as we know it, and getting notable wins with MOUZ. He managed to lead FaZe to the first international Major win while Vitality closed out the book of CS:GO being an international team as well, and if you take a look at the top teams, 6 out of the top 10 teams are international + many more big teams are moving to international like Liquid and freaking NAVI. Also not to take away from Gla1ve too much, he not just had a pretty balling roster behind him, he also had the best coach of all time supporting him which certainly plays a role in terms of strats. Still nonetheless it's entertaining to speculate on this because the both played such different games and actually benefitted from each other (Gla1ve replacing Karrigan | Karrigan playing CS with the new metas).
It's super impressive to win three majors in a row, but how is it your era, if another team is picking up a grand slam within it? Also, losing at Boston is a black mark on karrigan, but gla1ve went out in the groups with the best team in the history at the same tournament. If Faze had gone out in groups, this wouldn't be a talking point, wild.
Agree, I think launders focused heavily on discrediting FaZe for losing big matches when Astralis have lost a lot in tournaments
To be fair, the (back to back to back) Astralis era didn't really start until Dreamhack Marseille 2018 which was after the Boston Major. Also, Magisk hasn't been a part of Astralis for that long because of the whole Kjaerbye thing when they played in Boston.
I personally consider gla1ve the GOAT simply because his 4 majors outweigh everything karrigan did. However, karrigan definitely has the longevity and a very unique ability of developing young players into stars that cannot be discredited.
Edit: For me, one of the biggest difference makers in the karrigan vs gla1ve debate is also the fact that karrigan played with the same 4 man core as gla1ve, before gla1ve took over the reins as IGL in November 2016. 2 months later, gla1ve won Astralis' first major at Eleague Atlanta. Of course, it's a "what could've been"-situation: Sure, there is a possibility that karrigan wins with the same player core and never gets replaced etc. - but the matter of fact is that karrigan was replaced by gla1ve and gla1ve immediately went on to win a major with the same players on his team as karrigan had.
they won because they avoided playing astralis multiple times. and then lost to them at the major when they finally met
arguing faze won more than astralis is pretty silly, no one can earnestly back this claim. faze would barely be top 5 in terms of teams that had eras/insanely strong periods. calling astralis era into question isnt even a real discussion unless you werent there and are only looking at event histories on hltv. even at karrigan's best, never an era -> collapse -> new team #1 -> repeat
Liquid won the Grandslam with winning Iem Sidney and dreamhack masters. Tournaments which astralis did not participate in. They won against astralis in pro league in a fairly close match (especially due to the fact that they mastered vertigo before any other team did) and during cologne they were lucky that astralis lost against an incredible zywoo with vitality in the semis.
Astralis loosing in Boston can also be linked to the fact that kjaerby was about to leave the team.
Crazy seeing CSGO as history
Astralis era is the most dominating era and the most fruitful. They changed how the game was played, dominated for years, not even a question.
6:35 best recent example of this was the recent IEM Dallas match against ENCE, round 30 on Ancient karrigan just makes the absolute perfect call to make it to OT. Then he forgets how to play the game and Twistzz loses his cool and they lose anyway lol
The fact that both glaive and karrigan are on the top underrated list is actually creepy
9:48 that was IEM Rio 2023, not RIO Major 2022
i remember as a long faze fan since 2017 when guardian and olof came, i was so scared as a fan to face astralis when i saw faze vs astralis i though oh its gg just let them win:DD
You don't always have enough money for a deagle.. if you spend it all in a previous round and die after time on t-side you're screwed
background song name any1? please?
I think Karrigan over Glaive. why? hes built up many more rosters and makes teams better. Glaive isnt bad. but winning everything with the same roster and then winning nothing when 1 piece leaves the roster is a sign
tbh winning is easier with a star studded lineup and at the end of the day, the greatest lineups off all time all relied on elite awping. gla1ve and karrigan have both been carried in this regard (besides liquid who didnt even win a major)
When kjaerbye left the roster he continued to win majors...
@@micahbosman4897Yup. Not only that, karrigan had the exact same line-up that gla1ve had but not even 3 months after karrigan was replaced by gla1ve, Astralis gla1ve as IGL won their first major.
I think that karrigan may be the BEST IGL to ever do it because of his outstanding ability to develop talent & build strong teams, his longevity and major win despite of his age, whereas gla1ve/Astralis as a whole really dropped off after device left. Nonetheless, I consider gla1ve the GREATEST IGL of all time because in my opinion being the greatest is always about the skill and ability in combination with an accumulation of legendary stats/accomplishments. And in that regard, 4 majors with 3 of them back to back to back + (one of) the most dominant roster/era ever just remains unbeaten.
@@launders simple question.
its 14-15 and you need an IGL to make a call on the last round.
who do you choose? Gla1ve or Karrigan?
Honestly, I think they both have pros and conns are being the best. but if you need someone to give u a round. I think u pick Karrigan. maybe not in 2016 hahaha.
if Gla1ve comes back and becomes competitive with a totally new team, I think his lore will go up.
@@HavokR505 the one whos won 4 majors and has never choked? duh
No way my man just put Glave = Drake. Bruh
Karrigan lead the original TSM/Astralis team, then Faze pre superteam, Faze superteam, then Mouz, then current Faze all to being legitimate t1 title competitors.
Glaive had his time in the sun with the greatest team ever, but never found anything close to t1 title contention again.
Personally I find it much more impressive to be able to climb the mountain multiple times, than it is to get the top, hold it, but never even sniff a return again.
karrigan got there but never held it, thats why he had to keep getting back. and the part you missed about karrigan's astralis is that gla1ve is the reason they won
I think Karrigan fans tend to forget his past times. Bro your Karrigan got to play with the Astralis team but he never won a single big tournament. Always finishing on second or third places. It was until gla1ve came as an IGL and actually won a major and created history. A history which no team can even think of replicating it. You can pretty much understand how big the achievement is. In fact, Karrigan has been playing with the star players thorough out his career. Be it with Niko or Rain in his old prime form in the old Faze or be it with Ropz or frozen in mouz. In fact, right now, he has the most mechanically gifted players in his team. Be it Twistzz, Ropz or Broky. Imagine a team consisting of 3 star players like them and a consistent player like Rain, you will really achieve a lot if you know how to bring the pieces into the team. I am not denying the fact that Karrigan has been a great IGL throughout his career. But comparing with a player who has 4 major titles on his belt and has been a better performing player, the comparison would likely end here.
The greatest Astralis team which you are talking about has become a great team after they won 4 majors and a lot of tier 1 tournaments. If they hadn't won those, you wouldn't have given a single inch of importance to them. It was until gla1ve came as an IGL, they became more like a team rather than playing their own game and showcasing their individual skills. I have never seen a team like Astralis who had that amount of consistent players in it. I mean every player was equally consistent and good. All the five players were so good at hiding each other's weaknesses which made them truly the best team in the world.
@@launders Karrigan did have 4 trophy wins with TSM/Astralis before Glaive got there, including beating Prime Fnatic in a finals. He also made 5 straight major playoffs including 2 semifinalss with them.
It's not like they were bums before getting Glaive.
This is definitely a karrigan video 😌
When you get older your priorities change. Glaive got married and now he's got a kid. Must be hard to focus on both things yk.
It doesn't really matter if he's performing bad rn cos no one can take his 4 Majors away from him. The Goat.
HE of karrigan's calling?
it's choking.
I personally think my faceit level 2 igl who says "rush b" and goes A with the bomb only for us to die during the rush and he also dies at A because some smartass guy thought "WHAT IF THERE'S A GUY COMING A TO PLANT WHILE THE WHOLE TEAM IS B?"
its actually nexa but y'all aren't ready for that conversation
Achievement wise glaive wins, but Entertainment and Carrier story wise karrigan wins, win or lose the man has conducted so many thrilling games, keeping us nerds excited to watch pro scene, while Ast games tbh are a mostly a snooze feast.
Just wanted you to know that even if you made a 2 hour long uncut and unedited video where you just talk, I would still love to just sit and listen through the whole thing. Lau monologue podcast when?
thanks bruvva: 3
I feel like this argument is like arguing Benchmade is better than Swiss Army Knife. They both cut stuff and the Benchmade is head and shoulders above Swiss Army blades but the Swiss Army knife isn't known for just its edge retention.
ANOTHER HUNKY BANGER FROM MR. LAU from 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦 WOO
Bro didn’t mention hooxi in the greatest danish callers in cs go lmao and he mentioned snappi 😂
For me it’s karrigan because I still want to see Glaive succeed with another team and another coach, because continuing being the best is a team contribution and all of the players have to make that choice to work even harder when you are number 1 in the world. Karrigan always changed the team culture and he played in
I don't think the take that Karrigan has played with the greatest players of all time to count against him considering he makes those players better and sacrifices space to make those players shine in the first place.
he developed the fast ct top mid mirage smoke which changed the meta, which is a map they're era is not even known for. end of debate
If I were to answer the question, I don't think I could've done it better .
Glaive did so much more, creating the best team, changing the game and the greatest dynasty in cs history with a team of players who weren't mechanical superstars (except device), but were simply able to outplay their opponents at every turn. Karrigan has done a lot, and arguably has been a more consistent IGL, but he was handed a team of 4 other players that were incredibly dominant, and failed previously with pretty much the exact astralis roster. Also, not to discredit Karrigan's achievements, but most of Faze's victories came in a period of time where every other major team was having identity issues. Their two main opponents were Navi, who looked like a shell of its past self since the ukraine war/Boombl4 benching, and G2, who were trying to find an IGL that fit. Glaive and that Astralis roster after coming back from break absolutely ended the liquid dynasty at the peak of their ability.
did you have a stroke?
Gla1ve has been tier 2 Nafany for 3 years now, when he had Dev1ce and blameF they couldn't win vs the 30 year old russian electicians and plumbers in tournaments they got invited to. Mastermind caller with strats like: "blameF sit in ladder room and do nothing for 1:30, then everyone shift walks out wherever they want"
He had the greatest peak of any IGL in CS:GO and defined how modern cs is played, so he's still top 2 for me.
Why don't you make a video about Zeus from Na'Vi ??
There is no debate for gla1ve vs karrigan. Not a real one at least. Gla1ve easily is the best. Karrigan has lowest of lows too being benched multiple times for not being able to win. Karrigan had like a good 6 months when all other teams were on shambles where he got the Major win and 3/4 wins for grand slam.
Pronax is a better igl than Karrigan. If results dont matter then cadian is better than karrigan.
I'm really stoned and was just starting to fall asleep then 7:36 woke me up and nearly made me shit my pants
gla1ve had a higher peak and more "perfect" style
karrigan is more avant-garde, hes had to adapt to so many different players and always seems to work it out in a way no other igl does
karrigans flexibility puts him above gla1ve for me
2:30 that's over simplifying it. Dev1ce was shitting the bed in all of those quarter/semi finals. Dev1ce also shat the bed in the grand final against VP.
its Snappi right???
you're wrong; karrigan smiled at me at Blast DC and his eyes said "im the goat"
I think Karrigan is the best plug and play IGL. He can truly make any lineup and/or player work in some capacity.
Gla1ve is imo the best IGL. 4 vs. 1 major is enough alone. However, I think his mind changed the game forever and EVERY team tried to copy him for an extended period of time.
Why are there so many good igl from denmark like glaive, karrigan, cadian, and snappi.
Peter Griffin V.s. Andrew Hussie
How much was gla1ve and how much was zonic? With karrigan we know strategically it was all him. Another point on favor of karrigan, but a very tough one to call.
zonic always said he doesn’t interfere in a live round because he said the players can see better than him. anyone who plays or tried coaching knows that’s true. igls have infinitely more impact and influence on the game than a coach
FNS, mostly in valorant, but he is the actual goat of IGL and not even from eu
The most successful major winner igls of CSGO did it with native speakers in long standing teams (pronax, fallen, glaive)
It shouldn't count against him that he's played with more stars, because like you said, why change a winning team? His success being later shouldn't count against him.
Karrigan is the best imo, unless glaive gets another line-up looking good while individually fragging. If you doubt that, many would've said the same about fallen before imperial.
karrigan is better in my opinion, Karrigan developed so many players, also in Boston 2018 players like Niko just straight up choked. glaive is defiantly great but glaive basically inherited a super strong lineup Karrigan to a degree built and helped create great players as well, like what he was able to do with mouse sports, glaive comes across as someone who worked really well in one situation. Karrigan has worked magic in multiple
6 foot 3 " im short"
Voo punching the air rn.
So many people argue "karrigan has been at the top so much longer than gla1ve", that point is irrelevant as the question is who is the "Greatest" not who has been at the top for longer, perfect ie being Lebron vs Jordan - Karrigan being Lebron Gla1ve being Jordan. Longevity is only relevant when comparing careers not who is greater. Dupreeh has a better career than s1mple, is he greater? ofc not case in point. Gla1ve also rectified Karrigans "chokestralis" team, where they had the same players yet Gla1ve was so much better in comparison to when Karrigan was IGLing them
First, no that point isn't completely irrelevant. See the thing with MJ and LeBron is that people would really pick MJ in ANY situation (any team too) to be clutch and win you a game. In that way, the way you as an IGL can prove yourself with different players and metas (doesn't necessarily matter if years go by or not, it just so happened they did) is really important to being able to say "If the GREATEST CS match were to be played today, I'd want my IGL to be _____".
If we were talking about just a rifler or awper maybe this wouldn't matter, but in IGL it does. IMO, I wouldn't trust Glaive as much to win a game if the scenario is X, Y or the players are Z and W.
The way people dismiss this baffles me...
Glaive was good with one core. Karrigan won T1 trophies with 4 different cores. If glaive had shown anything in the last now almost three years he would still be the goat imo. But now I think zonic was a big part. So karrigan gets it for me.
Peak: Gla1ve
Longevity: Karrigan
Astralis have been literally absent for years which has to be a huge minus for Gla1ve. The 5 individuals should have kept Astralis relevant until now.
I get some of the points but if karrigans top players count against him, then glaive should get an even bigger minus, playing with tho goat coach, goat entry and goat clutcher and a goat contender awper
I would form the argument that glaive had a better peak but he didn't do anything noteworthy before and after Australis with arguably better pieces then karrigan had for most of his career and that karrigan takes the cake for being the better igl over the entire CSGO lifetime
So for me it's peak vs longevity in this type of setup
The prize of those headphones compare to a whole computer.... Cant be that good :D
The 13-7 comeback by Glaive is always talked about. However, Karrigan has probably had more 14-7 comebacks then any other IGL In history with multiple different rosters. He is the GOAT and its not even close. Glaive has shown that he could only do it with a very specific roster while speaking in his first language. Karrigan has done it with a range of talent and personalities while mostly speaking english.
Ngl ... Niko is the ChoKo
It would be recency bias if this was late 2019 and karrigan was winning everything right after astralis dominated for 18 months. This video is like gla1ve's best achievements vs karrigan's drawbacks. What do you mean he played with some of the best players ever? Did you forget about mouz? did you forget that none of his current players were top 5 in 2022? How about no star GOAT awper like dev1ce? How about karrigan winning a major with an international team where only 1 person spoke his native tongue? Before that no one had done that. how about no GOAT coach like zonic behind him? he did all himself. We saw what gla1ve did when zonic left.
karrigan could certainly do more with glaive's lineups because we've seen him do it before with lesser skilled lineups
was gonna make a comment on the coach point. That can't be understated and it heavily favors karrigan in the goat convo.
Wait who else speaks danish in FaZe? Rain??
why would his teammates be top 5 when faze werent dominate and didnt even win a series in the second major of the year? would you say his players werent good enough? lol
broky is a star awper.
gla1ve won with karrigans lineup, that's the story that already took place. you dont seem to know your history.
goat coach had device + zywoo for every major win. your star awper is more important than any coach or igl for that matter. karrigan had device, broky and guardian too btw.
The guy with 4 majors probably?
I comment to help statistics
I feel like karrigan hasnt changed csgo the way glaive jas
Personally I think that Siuhy clears both of them but that’s just me
Least biased pole
musics just a teeeny bit loud
not even mentioning fallen as one of the top igl's is crazy
hes top 3 all time. i just mentioned danish ones
I'd say Gla1ve is the GOAT, and then Karrigan. I love them both, no one can touch those two at the top.
WHERE IS FALLEN?
Voo screaming rn