On children and battlefields, traditional navies often had children as young as 13 commanding gunnery stations - ordering aiming, reloading, drilling and all that. Master and Commander depicts this very well.
Yeah. Really good. I sort of hope Tech will go back in time and do a video on it. The English Navy's doctrine alone is fascinating: doesn't matter if you're out- classed, you will attack when the opportunity arises or pay for your cowardice.
I personally always saw the Jedi being put in the roles of Generals for the military was another chess move made by Palpatine. He recognized the lack of military teachings in the Order and used that to his advantage to cause a back and forth style of warfare to make it seem like both sides were balanced. He used their inexperience as a way to constantly lose troops and machines while having a figure head to blame (A more subtle variant of Order 66). Incompetence is a powerful tool when wielded with a purpose. I thought it was a brilliant strategy.
Not only that but because of the inexperience of the jedi, when they were place on a battlefield they would die at rapid rates greatly reducing the amount of jedi in the order, and subsequently the amount of opposition he would face later on
Also don’t forget that padawans which were around 15-16 most of the time were automatically given the rank of commander & were given command of around 2,300 clones.
What is the alternative though? The clones are basically hired mercenaries and the only actual military trained people are the Jedi. They had no choice but to either trust clones who are 10 years old and are basically brainwashed children in adult bodies. They are taught tactics but not strategy. They could have used planetary defense force leaders but it's a civil war so trusting people with a military force is dangerous. They had no choice but to draft everyone who had military training and try and teach them large scale galactic war military strategy as fast as they could.
Disbanding the military post Ruusan was one of the dumbest decisions the Republic ever made. Darth Bane had to have been thrilled when he heard that. The Republic just made his job WAY easier
Ok but a centralized military enables galactic tyranny. There were generations of peace before the clone wars, and any conflict couldn’t spread more than a few planets because there was no large military. As soon as the republic had a military it became authoritarian
@@TheChaizeRiley The chaos that the Republic could do nothing about led directly to the Outer Rim’s resentment of the Republic. If they’d had a military they could have done something about pirates and slavers. Instead they could do nothing about it and the Outer Rim was basically abandoned. The Sith took advantage of this chaos to cause the Clone Wars
I tend to argue with that - the lack of massive militaries he could subvert was a massive obstacle - because the sudden gathering of manpower and military assets would ring a bell that smth was way off - heck even plagueis and palpatine had to spend decades to spin a large scale conflict - so lack of massive armies to subvert was a huge issue and it took almost a 1000 years of future preperations for sith to make their move properly and this time they had no hidden empire to be able to sping things up like the old sith did - that is why Bane had to build everything from the ground up and it took a millenium to pull off.
@@Trey-dp6tlThe fact you unironically think the Sith couldn't have also easily taken advantage of a centralized military just as well as any underlying class resentment is hilarious, given the actual plots of these movies, lmfao. SW fans implictly admit they have never watched the movies, any % challenge.
The clones had one more huge handicap:the training they received.They were trained by bounty hunters,who,will beign very good fighters,they fight mostly alone or in small groups and this is how they trained the clones to fight.They did not trained them to fight as a platoon,company or battalion In Star Wars The Animated Show,we see again and again that in small squads,the clones are able to use higly advanced tactics and maneuvers but in larger units they use very basic tactics,in most cases a line of battle with no supporting force,no flanking units,nothing.Just all clones in a big line or formation,either charging forward or firing from a static position.Also,the coordination with the armor,air force or artillery is practically zero.The clones have no idea how to fight as part of a larger unit or as part of a combine arms force.On Ryloth,the ATTE move in enemy territory with no scouting unit in front,nothing. The same problem exist with stormtroopers or rebels.Very good at small unit tactics,sh.t to fight as a large unit.
Yeah, I never did get why they had bounty hunters and not someone more relevant like sector defence forces or even policing/security forces training them
@@4mobius280that's the difference between the clone wars multimedia project and the clone wars show. In the multimedia project bounty hunters didn't train the clones, mandalorians did. They trained the commando units and ARC troopers. Both the null class and the alpha class which in turn trained their other brethren. They were raised in mandalorian battle culture but the emphasis was on being part of a larger force. The jedi for the most part were very inept as military leader with only a few adapting and becoming genuinely good military leaders like anakin, obi wan and aayla secura for example.
What no one realizes is that the Maginot Line was actually a huge success. It was so good the Germans refused to engage it. What defeated the French was not what people think, it was their border with Belgium that defeated them.
Absolutely it was a choice by the french army to not fully close the Belgium side to force the German coming. This way with mean having all allied combine force in one place Also the Maginot line did work on the Italian front so well in fact the Italian retreat and loss almost 10x more than the french
While I mostly agree, I think it was the Frenches failure in command that lead to their defeat. They could have easily stomped the n@zis if the French had at least one or two back up plans. I obv can’t type a book here but, it was definitely a failure in command and a breakdown in communications that lead to Frances downfall.
Exactly what I posted above. In fact, the Maginot Line sort of extended into the Belgium side; it was thought the Ardennes impassable. The Germans proved that wrong.
@@guichardalex It actually extended to the Belgian-German border. The thing is, the Maginot line was built when the Belgians were staunch allies with the French. It didn't look good diplomatically for France to build a wall between them and their erstwhile ally so the line also defended the Belgians but were supposed to be manned by the French in case of imminent conflict. However, what screwed up the plan was the alliance being broken (can't recall offhand what caused it) causing Belgium to be neutral at the start of WW2. This meant that the French troops were not pre-positioned when tensions rose and when war did break out, the Germans were able to overrun the poorly manned primary line and caused the Allies to defend at the less manpower-efficient secondary line, which required them to pull forces from the sector where the Germans would eventually break through.
I read somewhere that the Maginot line had the same percent of the military budget for the french, as the ship Bismarck had for the germans. The Maginot shaped the entire conflict like intended. Bismarck managed to trade tonnage with the british fleet.
I would argue that the Jedi not knowing the true potential of the Clone army and the clones feeling jaded about the Jedi was something very intentional by Palpatine. He was the grand chess master of the whole war at the end of the day. He used ancient Sith alchemy to make the dark side more palpable and able to cloud the judgement of the Jedi masters like Yoda. Not only that but clones feeling jaded with the Jedi only makes them more willing to betray their masters in order 66. This is something that i think makes more sense in legends where clones don’t have inhibitor chips and knew the plan all along and were more than willing to betray their Jedi masters. But in canon we get a lot more stories of clones who had strong relationships with their Jedi masters, and even chose to remove their inhibitor chips and tried to resist their inhibitor chips telling them to kill the Jedi they loved. That’s not to say there were cases where clones liked their Jedi commanders in legends, some even full on fell in love with them, but for every Fives, Sev, Cody, Wulf, Rex, and Echo there were many more no name clones who were essentially droids who blindly followed orders and were more than happy to kill their Jedi companions and fulfill Palpatine’s grand plan.
I think a nice healthy middle ground would be to see how the average non-main character clone soldier felt about the Jedi's incompetence and also see how the Darkside influences of the war caused more and more Jedi generals to care less and less about their clone soldiers, kind of like Pon krell, maybe more subtle.
I don't know why people commonly believe that the entire German military was hopped up on meth. According to sources I've read, it was really just the Luftwaffe. Pervitin was used to pull out absurdly lengthy sorties extending past 24 hours. However reports determined that the crash and negative side effects were not worth it; pilots would be depressed for at least a whole day afterward. It was only really utilized during the initial blitzkrieg (a term the Germans themselves never used, by the way, but it is a handy term) that took Europe by storm.
Norwegian here, when the germans attacked we had been at peace for 200 years. Our police were so unsure of what to do that they kept civilians out of the way for the germans to march towards the royal palace.
How many casualties did the norwigans have when the germans invaded? Sounds to me that the police did their job, protect the people, also kept law and order. To pull that off when geting invaded is a tall order.
The ancients used to say "Si vis pacem, para bellum", if you want peace you must be ready to wage war, the republic and Jedi demilitarization was a Mistake they made two times.
@@cantionaleecclesiasticum5378 If you go to play dice, with a set that can never roll 7 - you are going to lose. If you run a D&D character where all the results on your d20 are 15 and under, you are in for a bad time. If you go play poker, but refuse to do anything but full reveal your hand to your opponents - you will be taken for everything you are worth, until you are out of literally everything. This, is what the republic did: They took away their capacity to enforce their laws, and rules in a meaningful way - and as a result, they opened the door for the corrupt especially in the outer rim, and mid rim territories where crime syndicates ran rampant. In the lower levels of cities, crime and poverty ballooned out of control. This, was the result. The only saving grace, was the memory of the mighty republic fleets - but as those dwindled, and those ships showed up less in places that needed the display of force, those who saw bounty in it - began disregarding the republic and started squeezing those beneath them harder, leading to more problems, more corruption, and more poverty. The Jedi, were used to quell uprisings, and enforce the law - which often favoured the corrupt entities, making the Jedi complicit in the abuse of the people: People stopped seeing the jedi as peace keepers, or a noble Savior, or a protector: They were an enforcer, and the republic? Was a Tyrranical abusive government entity. 1000 years of peace, was more 1000 years of systemic oppression using some of the most capable enforcers of the oppressive laws as one could manage to find. Fear, is a powerful weapon - and when it can be backed up, with a display of force: It's highly effective. Couple this with wealth restricting mobility heavily, along with insane levels of ability to monitor, and control the populace through self censorship and rebelion is unlikely to take root, and when it does - it's liable to be easily crushed. And so, it CAN NOT happen in the core worlds, and the outer rim are dominated by crime syndicates that use their own brand of force to keep their influence going. And this, is where we find the republic when Palpatine starts his rise to power: A galaxy filled to the brim with corrupt officials, exploitative trade+banker corperations/unions, and the lack of any meaningful military to conduct defensive operations let alone offensive ones. The biggest reason the republic lasted as long as it did, in the state the republic was in, was the Jedi's ability to bluntly deal with problems, and the siths inability to form long term strategic planning at the time scales needed to mount an offensive - all while corrupting organizations into their own vanity projects. In comes the Strategist: Palpatine, an actor that forgoes brute force for politics and cunning manuevering, along with contingencies for contingencies. Lets say the mandalorians were kept militant - well: They have a navy, integrated at arms length with their own command structure, traditions, and more. This allows the Mandalorians to beused as a heavy handed enforcement mechanism, while the republic force is left in long term storage for the most part, with a large part of it's force put in as reservists instead of active duty, making it feasible to rapidly mobilize in the order of 10's of billions of troops for navy, and planetary defence duty basically across their territories. Along with these, you have the local security forces, and information specialist organizations that keep an eye on piracy, criminal syndicates, and so on, and when opertunity strikes - work to fully dismantel them. In the previously mentioned arrangement - young padawans aren'tused as commanders, instead: veteran commanders from both the republic who may have been put on reserve, or whatever, or mandalorians, or jedi that were trained as military commanders for special operations. In other words: The clones are lead by proper leaders, and more importantly: The activation of reservists across the galaxy means the clone forces are a strictly forward assault force - not a defensive force. And in this set up: Palpatine has a LOT of problems trying to dismantal the republic, because - unfortunately - every actor he uses to make it possible for his plans to work, are liable to be tracked, identified, and questioned and sooner or later: He gets found out, meaning - any plan palpatine takes long term, is on a very short clock before his plans are unraveled. And so, we come back to the statement: "If you want peace, prepare for war".
@@cantionaleecclesiasticum5378 Except it only worked because The George said so. I dare someone to explain to me in a sensible manner how say the Hutts did not crush a Navyless and Armyless Republic whithin a century of the Ruusan Reformation.
@@danieldimitrov5997 They werent interest, they woundt profit for a direct war on the republic and other cartels might take the advantage and gang on Hutts.
You forgot that when an aggressor attacks, he has studied his target before attacking. Something that is taught at military acedemies the world over is that you never attack with a paraty of forces, you want to stack the odds in your favor. Wargamers (and I include myself in that designation) usually learn that lesson without "bloodshed," but real militaries unfortunately have to learn that lesson the lard ways with a large body count.
after seeing your spelling mistake, I cannot help myself. while you have studied the tank, I have studied the lard while you have studied the fighter jet, I have studied the lard now who has the larger body (count)?
I can't see that chest-mounted mini AA-emplacement and not think of "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"'s Vogons, who were such bad marksmen that they used area saturation with chest-mounted pepper-box blasters and still missed 99.9% of all shots.
Yeah but to be fair, when have we ever been at peace since 2001. We're out here ordering drone strikes in countries we never even had official beef with
Well, 3 or 4 percent of GDP on military spending makes it a huge amount when we're talking about an economy the size of the US, though it really isn't on a relative level.
If the alternative is aggressive Chinese or Russian expansion in Europe or Asia, i think most of the civilized world would prefer the US kept things staus quo
"Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock." - The Third Man (1949)
the Swiss never got peace, it was only very recent after the Napoleonic wars did the Swiss have actual peace. Before that they were the most used Mercenary force even after the humiliating defeat against the French and Milanese. Even after that their mercenary force is used so much that it was only during the Napoleonic wars did those Mercenary days end. Plus their constant infighting for both Calvinists and Catholics were fighting constantly.
What I learned dabbling in airsoft: Kids are great on the battlefield: They're smaller targets, more energy, different center of mass so it's more difficult to lead your aim.
So I'm going to come to the defense of the Jedi strategy at the Battle of Geonosis (kinda). First the scenario: Your target is heavily fortified with anti air weapons galore; you lack sufficient capital ship support to cover your landing; your mission runs on an unknown schedule, you don't know how long you have to pull off your rescue and that time line shrinks once you begin your assault; you have limited forces meaning you can't rely on attrition tactics and a brief window of marginal surprise to gain the combat initiative at the start of the engagement; little to no reliable intel on the situation on the ground, troop layout, defensive lines, etc. Their choice to make a hot landing right on the edge of the enemies effective range of fire and bum-rush in is probably their best bet and not to dissimilar in concept, if less so in execution, as the Rhodesian Light Infantry in similar situations. Also, credit to the Jedi for leading the charge themselves and providing cover to the clones behind them. Sure, there were probably things they could have done better, but all told they could have done much worse.
I partially agree but the Jedi had already been evacuated from the Arena at that point so the time constraint no longer exists. The place is also strange as we can see that the area of the battle is surrounded by mountains and hills which would have provided both protection for the landing of troops and vehicles as well as protected firing positions for the republics Tanks and Artillery. But yeah the Battle could have been even more of a desaster.
@@noahn627at that point the core ships being built on geonosis and the CIS leaderships leaving was what set the deadline. They were the immediate next objectives after the Jedi task force was secured.
Sacrificing that many soldiers for 2 jedi and a senator was a bad choice all on it's own. Anything after that is just adding spice to feces and calling it a meal.
Also the confederacy had massive air superiority with their vulture fighters, that had proved capable at naboo before Iirc in the early days the clones were always slaughtered in airfights. You cant bomb a target if you dont have air superiority
i would argue that sending the troops in was the dumb mistake here by all common sense they would have got massacred if the rebels have held the lines there is no military or strategic target worth your entire army
One thing that really bothers me about star wars is the complete lack of understanding of scale... 200,000 soldiers to invade a PLANET!? During operation Barbarossa the Germans invaded Russia with almost 20x as many men... and last time I checked the Nazi party was not an interstellar civilization.
Its also something like the total number of clones deployed was like 1.5 million. Even if you counted droids as casualties. The clone wars wouldn't even be in the top 5 deadliest wars on earth
Yeah. Like in Warhammer 40K, despite the imperium having a galactic empire with supposedly millions of worlds under control, a lot of their largest battles dont scale well. I recall one battle having less number of troops compared the entire battle of stalingrad
The George created the Original trilogy as an Epic FANTASY Adventure with emphasys on Epic and Adventure. He just confused a lot of people by placing the adventure in Space. He gained a huge fanbase with those movies. In the Prequels he tried to move the janre to a sort of a semi-science fictiony space opera, which resulted in a massive dislike from the original fanbase - because they did not receive a new Epic Adventure as they expected. Unfortunately The George was not and is not a good Science Fiction Writer - he just tells great stories on the big screen. SF has specific requirements to be Good SF - and the Prequels were not Good SF. Maybe a semi-decent Space opera. I liked them though despite everything. What I am trying to say with this huge wall of text (sorry :) ) is - almost NOTHING in the first six Star Wars movies and a lot of the Expanded Universe books and stuff makes sence from the point of view of Hard Science Fiction requirements - because it is not Hard SF and was never intended to be. Every attempt to create Good Star Wars Hard SF while stayng as close to the Original Lore as possible will fail - because the Original Lore is a Fantasy Lore.
Probably computer limitations holding movie producers back to depict extremely large scale battles. Clone Wars 2003 did a good job with the invasions since it's 2D.
Allen. As a student of history yourself. You would know all to well that even in our own past its always been the same. Young inexperienced officers, usually the wrong equipment for the job and rigidly conforming to a previous pattern. Are often the recipe for disaster. Those who come through it are the ones who manage to either last long enough to get experience, being part of an entity who can move quickly to adapt their equipment to whats required for that particular conflict and those groups who can improvise on the run. Sadly the old theory that "if you want peace then you must prepare for war" still rings true. Regards an old veteran.
It's usually the 'old guard' that are the inflexible ones. With the mindset that 'this worked the last time we tried it, it should be fine for the next time'. This is also generally true in other areas outside of the military, too. Hell, older populations tend to skew conservative in political ideologies... Usually, the younger officers, those who had never experienced the success of 'old school' tactics would be the ones that adapted and tried new things, if only because they didn't have the instincts to implement what they had(n't) learned through a lifetime of service.
@@derkylos I'd say that's mostly for old guard officers, old guard NCOs are the ones that see the faults in tactics and make recommendations first for changes to the battlefield.
@@derkylos Beware of an old man, in a young mans game. Some of the most effective commanders have been "old guard" who come in with the attitude "I don't know how this crap works, you private smith - train me like I'm a dumb ass green scrub that doesn't know his ass from his boot straps on the use of this equipment". And why: Because every damn person knows the record of that officer, and what that officer just said is: If you don't know, that's fine - your responsibility is to learn, and take that knowledge to heart and without complaint as to who is giving it to you. And that, creates a very strong sense of loyalty, but even more so: Produces an effective team willing to stand up, and go "I can't for the life of me see how that will work" and from that - you solve the problem. Where you get failure, is when a strict adherence to hierarchy is followed, without a respect to practical operational knowledge that is needed to be effective. Like, if you use long range artillery like a mortar you can kind of get some work done, but it's value - especially highly accurate modern artillery, is not in barraging an entire area into a flattened field, the value of it, is being able to mark a target and obliterate the threat and move on: Less ammunition, means easier logistics chain. Less standing fire, means less time to isolate gun location and attack it. Faster forward movement, means less opertunity to mount a defense. But none of this is useful, if the officer does not know the capabilities of the hardware and troops at that officers disposal when tasked with a mission. And this brings us to: Arrogant ego driven officers are the problem - and it doesn't matter their age. It is true, that younger officers are far less likely to be locked into habits, but it is also true that younger officers rapidly moving up the ranks are bound to have an ego the size of a foot ball pitch and that needs to be cut down to size or disaster will strike.
Fun fact: Blitzkrieg is an exonym. A term not invented by those inside the the culture. But outsiders looking in. The German military didn't refer to their tactics as "Blitzkrieg", it was just considered combined arms warfare. Blitzkrieg was coined later by WWII historians.
The Germans also got extremely lucky earlier in the war. A french pilot saw the entire German armoured force stuck in a long traffic jam. Upon telling his command what he saw they just thought it so unbelievable they told the pilot he must have been seeing things and never sent bomber to blow them up. WW2 could have been much shorter if the French Command didnt fumble the bag on that one.
There is a really good fan story where Kyle Katarn from the Jedi knight games, a seasoned jedi of Lukes order and a veteran soldier the Rebel alliance/new republic goes back in time and basically explains what you did about why letting the jedi be the generals/leaders is a bad idea and suggests putting mandolorians and mercs/planetary militia leaders in charge, and instead use jedi as strike teams for key targets. Unfortunately it hasn’t updated for a while but i remember Tarkin ends up being a huge fan of Katarns for his pragmatism lol
14:14 - I just love Anakin's history with the Y-Wing! I mean, it's so cool that the Y-Wing has a connection to the Clone Wars and General Skywalker as well as the Rebel Alliance!
bro youre really cooking with these takes! especially about how crazy it is that the jedi thought they could be battle commanders dispite at most having maybe 7 guys who even remember the aftermath of the last large scale war
4:35 It's kind of in the name 'Peacekeepers' are for after the war, to try prevent another one from happening, or before the war, to try stop it occuring in the first place.
"The peacekeepers were never meant to wage war outright. They were meant to stop it from escalating to this point." - Federation Pilot: Project Wingman
@@marrqi7wini54 yep. Which also explains why they were there at the start of episode 1, trying to negotiate a settlement without escalating to open conflict... right until people started trying to kill them.
Great video! Really interesting insight into the Clone Wars from the lens of real world wars. I don't know much outside of the movies but I was surprised that some clones didn't like their Jedi commanders. But it makes sense considering the Jedi were basically a peace keeping force who were not trained in warfare. Sheds a new light to the Clone Wars for me.
There are a couple military sayings I like to live by. "If you wish for Peace, prepare for War." (If you yearn for peace, you better be willing to fight for it.) and "The only thing necesary for Evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing." (Evil only exists if you allow it to.)
9:12 The problem with it is that with Clone Wars the clones are actual people who bond with their jedi commanders, also it creates too much leaks where Order 66 can go to jedi ears.
7:01 when I first saw this episode when I was 10 or 11, I thought that Anakin was too hard for being angry with her. Nowadays I realize that if she wasn’t a Jedi, she would have been court-marshaled and if this was Warhammer 40k, she would have been executed
The trouble is that Ashoka isn't much older than you were when you first saw that episode lol, totally the Jedi's/Republic's fault - why would padawans automatically get the rank of commander and outrank clone officers? Surely younger less experienced padawans should be like corporals or sergeants at most and maybe more experienced ones like Episode 1 Obi-Wan should have higher ranks like captain. Maybe only full knights should have been commanders and only masters ought to have led armies. Or better yet they employ others to lead the armies and the jedi function as elite troops used sparingly for special ops and major assaults.
The United States Navy has not fought a fleet engagement since 1945. Since that time we have gutted our industrial base (now called the rust belt) and not invested in shipyards (the Chinese have eight of the largest in the world) but we are still building carriers that take eight years to build. In 1944 we built over 40 aircraft carriers in one year. Many of them were light carriers or escort carriers. By spreading out our forces the loss of one carrier was not catastrophic. We have fallen victim to our own success and think giant carriers can be protected but that is a fantasy. Even the Navy’s own war games show that our carriers will get sunk. We cannot replace them. We do not have the industrial capacity to fight a conventional war against China. This is an example of how the winner of a war can stop innovation in their strategy.
Interesting take. Another real-world example is the Russia empire (and its successor states). In every major conflict, they had horrendous losses at first but its sheer size allows them to bide time until they can adapt to the conflict and throw numbers at their problems.
Talk about a one-sided beat down, clowns vs clones. Guys who played soldier to fight a weak republic, vs real soldiers who were born and bred to fight an overwhelming foe.
This is such a nice take on the Republic and the Clone Wars. Really does make you realize something that sheds light on old grandpa Sheev's entire reason for the clone wars. He probably realized that droids would never be realized as a legitimate means of authority in the galaxy, so he _wanted_ to use the clones since they would help him remove the Jedi and also give old Palps a perfectly _humanistic_ reason to oust them (subjectively speaking). As an added bonus, he would also be able to absorb the entire economic might of the Republic into his Empire, making it a perfect two-for-one deal of removing the original threat of the Republic to the Sith, while also removing the age-old enemy of the Jedi as well. It was an excellent plan, but not one that could be immediately executed. He knew that guerilla tactics like using the clones as assasins would only give him short-term value. He needed to wipe the board in one fell swoop - eliminate the Jedi before the Jedi even realized they were gone. But he knew that the clones as they currently were on their planet of Kamino were weak, underarmed, ill-trained, inefficiently used, inexperienced, outclassed, and fundamentally incapable of taking over the galaxy _and_ aiding him in removing the Jedi order. So to remedy this, he basically utilized the droids to incite innovation in the clones and create a fully functional _humanoid_ military that _would_ be recognized by the entire galaxy while also having the _support_ of the "evil" jedi order and _also_ being fully under his total control. Hence the entire reason for Palpatine to let the war mire keep on upgrading _his_ army, even as the casualty count kept going up: it was all coming together😃. Definitely read the original Art of War by Sith Lord Sun Tsu. Totally makes the entire Clone Wars make absolute sense, and also shows why the Rebel Wars later on was successful as well - because Palp's extended his military might too far (and of course had to trust the management to free-willed agents so as not to seem too tyrannical and prevent total insurrections), which led to complacency in much of the empire and in some locations, gross mismanagement. It's probably why they show not all imperial soldiers can aim well throughout the rebel wars - not enough practice, you would argue.
Blitzkrieg is a Western term. The German term is as follows: "All employment of force should have an effective concentration in a single moment, with a single action, Clausewitz argued. Clausewitz called that concentration the Schwerpunkt (“centre of gravity”) where it was most dense, identifying it as the effective target for attack."
The irony that if the officers of the later Galactic Empire were in overall command of the GRA they would have done a far more effective job than the Jedi but because of their aggression and battlefield ideology, they suffered against the insurgency of the Rebellion. Tarkin should have been given command...just maybe reigned in after the battle was won so he didn't pull a General Sherman against CIS worlds afterwards.
I like to think that by the cline wars era of star wars, military strategy and tactics were largly forgotten and they just figured "more and bigger" would be fine
Sort of reminds me of the USA in WW2, in particular our tanks... We... really didn't do much with tanks in the interwar period, and our tanks were all small and very ineffective, which lead to the rushed development and deployment of the M3 Lee, which was admittedly decent for when it was introduced, considering most of the tanks, if they used as 75mm, used a short barreled variant that was very ineffective against other tanks, and the 37mm was still common, though being phased out. However, once we got that sorted, we started printing every improving Shermans, along with a variety of other vehicles that to supplement the armored forces, like Hellcats.
I honestly think that these videos would get more views, and i would watch more of them, if there was less of them. My problem is you guys have alot of good ideas and interesting ideas that could have more effort put into them, a 30 minute video twice a week with lots of cool and interesting indepth study and edit, and more fleshed out ideas instead of rushed ideas for a daily video
The man behind the German mobile war doctrine is a British officer who was despised by his superiors and so ignored the Germans just copied his home work.
I love the opening of the video, is like you are in the future or past I guess of Star Wars. So in real life, the Ukraine War is showing that learning on the go to catch up from WWI to the Terminator Drone wars is a real mess for both sides. That was just under a century without a major war in Europe.
Going by Legends the Republic had no real fleets to wage war with (against whom anyway?), but the individual sectors themselves could have their own fleets and get away with it just like the Banking Clan and other Separatists. There were legal limits to ones fleet size, class of ships, and amount of weapons on them, but also loopholes for prototypes, live-fire testing modells, and such to go way beyond the legal limits. And bribery. Some of the Core and Inner Rim sectors had massive fleets to push around other sectors, with political pressure and outright intimidation.
❤❤❤❤❤ love your take, your observation of peace = complacency and hubris. To further back your point of armies are built for the last war: in my Freshman college history class, my instructor said that in the earlier parts of WWI a large French force of (maybe?) Algerian soldier charged German defenses with swords and were gund down by the hundreds by German machineguns. In my final for the class, I answered "was WWI the last war of the 19th C, or the first war of the 20th C?" with "yes." Not what he was looking for, but I argued it well enough that I got an A. So, I agree with you whole heartedly. "Be ready, but not Tarkin ready, for war.
The biggest problem the republic faces in war is just the general writing in starwars. The jedi, and the new/old/high/whatever republic, are written terribly inconsistently, flipflopping between extremely capable and absurdly incapable depictions depending on what happens in any given scene. Since the jedi and the republic usually control the galaxy at the start of the various stories. The only way for the antagonists to actually be a threat is for the jedi/republic to be cartoonishly incapable. If they were even halfway capable then the antagonists would simply get crushed instantly by the combined power of the galaxy. In general a lot of writing in starwars doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.
I would partially agree. The thing is Star Wars was conceived as an Epic Fantasy Adventure. The George never intended the Original three to be anything even close to Science Fiction, much less Hard SF - he just thought it will be cool to place it in space. And in Epic Fantasy one has Magic to solve problems. Internal logic is not really needed, nor is it really desired very much. In the prequels he tried to move to Space Opera SF and it somewhat backfired. A lot of Expanded Universe stuff - even rather good stuff -is a valiant attempt to make SF on an Epic Fantasy basis - which attempt quite often fails because one has to retcon a huge amount of important base stuff to do it right, and that will kill the Star Wars vibe.
@@danieldimitrov5997 Good fantasy still has, and needs, internal logic. Your fantasy world still has internal rules, and the world needs to stay consistent with itself, even if those rules include a magic system. Making sure there is an internal logic makes it far easier to suspend disbelief when the rules of this world involve magic and other fantastical elements. Other than that, yeah George clearly didn't start with a coherent vision beyond the original three and basicly just kept tacking on things as long as he thought it'd look cool.
@@kakalukio I Guess I was not clear enough - that happens to me way too often :) When I say Epic Fantasy I mean stuff like the Forgotten Realms - The Belgariad and the like. Epic Magic, Great heroes and Vilians and very, very little internal logic. Magic works just like the author needs it to - and does not work when it is needed not to work. No magic system or special abilities system, no hierarchy - what beats what and WHY? . Even the best RPGames like Baldur's gate - why? is that spell level 3 and that spell level 7? They are great as games to play, however if the magic system worked as shown in such games - then (my personal opinion) the world around that magic system would look a lot different. There is a lack of consistensy between the magical abilities available and the rules and structure of the world surrounding them. The is a lot of good fantasy that does not suffer from such flaws - but I would not classify it Epic Fantasy.
@@danieldimitrov5997 Even those have an internal logic to them. Or at least, the ones that care about worldbuilding do. Which covers basicly all the good ones that aren't short stories. For example, something like baldur's gate has rules regarding ressurection and some rough guidelines as to what is a level 1 spell and what is a level 7 spell. Sure, magic can do a lot, and yes, its pretty arbitrary if something is a first or second level spell, but there are still limits, especially for "low level" characters. And yes, the limits fluctuate a bit depending on the author, one author may make the fireball spell a little bit more destructive than another. But they all agree that a level 1 wizard can't be nuking armies with his fireballs, or ressurect 1000's of allies without any effort. And those kind of rules are needed to get a coherent story. Also minor sidenote; games tend to seperate game mechanics from the story logicwise. You can ressurect your allies a billion times when fighting the boss, but if they die in a cutscene thats usually permanent no matter what
On children and battlefields, traditional navies often had children as young as 13 commanding gunnery stations - ordering aiming, reloading, drilling and all that. Master and Commander depicts this very well.
If the clones are children Grogu's A senior citizen
Such a good film, that was.
Yeah. Really good. I sort of hope Tech will go back in time and do a video on it. The English Navy's doctrine alone is fascinating: doesn't matter if you're out- classed, you will attack when the opportunity arises or pay for your cowardice.
I expect Lucas was going for kind of a 'knights and squires' thing at some point too.
Younger. 10 year olds happened, but 12 was more common. Of course I could have been looking at a different navy or era than you.
I personally always saw the Jedi being put in the roles of Generals for the military was another chess move made by Palpatine. He recognized the lack of military teachings in the Order and used that to his advantage to cause a back and forth style of warfare to make it seem like both sides were balanced. He used their inexperience as a way to constantly lose troops and machines while having a figure head to blame (A more subtle variant of Order 66). Incompetence is a powerful tool when wielded with a purpose. I thought it was a brilliant strategy.
YES that makes a lot of sense!
Not only that but because of the inexperience of the jedi, when they were place on a battlefield they would die at rapid rates greatly reducing the amount of jedi in the order, and subsequently the amount of opposition he would face later on
Also don’t forget that padawans which were around 15-16 most of the time were automatically given the rank of commander & were given command of around 2,300 clones.
What is the alternative though? The clones are basically hired mercenaries and the only actual military trained people are the Jedi. They had no choice but to either trust clones who are 10 years old and are basically brainwashed children in adult bodies. They are taught tactics but not strategy. They could have used planetary defense force leaders but it's a civil war so trusting people with a military force is dangerous.
They had no choice but to draft everyone who had military training and try and teach them large scale galactic war military strategy as fast as they could.
16 year olds commanding 2,300 soldiers. 😂
@@michaelmoses8745 lmao
@@michaelmoses8745A lot better than a lot of adults.
@Blöœdǐêďname a few
Disbanding the military post Ruusan was one of the dumbest decisions the Republic ever made. Darth Bane had to have been thrilled when he heard that. The Republic just made his job WAY easier
Ok but a centralized military enables galactic tyranny. There were generations of peace before the clone wars, and any conflict couldn’t spread more than a few planets because there was no large military. As soon as the republic had a military it became authoritarian
A centralized military is large enough to take over a whole system, where as a planetary defense force is too small to take over its neighbor
@@TheChaizeRiley The chaos that the Republic could do nothing about led directly to the Outer Rim’s resentment of the Republic. If they’d had a military they could have done something about pirates and slavers. Instead they could do nothing about it and the Outer Rim was basically abandoned. The Sith took advantage of this chaos to cause the Clone Wars
I tend to argue with that - the lack of massive militaries he could subvert was a massive obstacle - because the sudden gathering of manpower and military assets would ring a bell that smth was way off - heck even plagueis and palpatine had to spend decades to spin a large scale conflict - so lack of massive armies to subvert was a huge issue and it took almost a 1000 years of future preperations for sith to make their move properly and this time they had no hidden empire to be able to sping things up like the old sith did - that is why Bane had to build everything from the ground up and it took a millenium to pull off.
@@Trey-dp6tlThe fact you unironically think the Sith couldn't have also easily taken advantage of a centralized military just as well as any underlying class resentment is hilarious, given the actual plots of these movies, lmfao. SW fans implictly admit they have never watched the movies, any % challenge.
The clones had one more huge handicap:the training they received.They were trained by bounty hunters,who,will beign very good fighters,they fight mostly alone or in small groups and this is how they trained the clones to fight.They did not trained them to fight as a platoon,company or battalion
In Star Wars The Animated Show,we see again and again that in small squads,the clones are able to use higly advanced tactics and maneuvers but in larger units they use very basic tactics,in most cases a line of battle with no supporting force,no flanking units,nothing.Just all clones in a big line or formation,either charging forward or firing from a static position.Also,the coordination with the armor,air force or artillery is practically zero.The clones have no idea how to fight as part of a larger unit or as part of a combine arms force.On Ryloth,the ATTE move in enemy territory with no scouting unit in front,nothing.
The same problem exist with stormtroopers or rebels.Very good at small unit tactics,sh.t to fight as a large unit.
Yeah, I never did get why they had bounty hunters and not someone more relevant like sector defence forces or even policing/security forces training them
I never thought about this, but you are totally right!
@@4mobius280that's the difference between the clone wars multimedia project and the clone wars show. In the multimedia project bounty hunters didn't train the clones, mandalorians did. They trained the commando units and ARC troopers. Both the null class and the alpha class which in turn trained their other brethren. They were raised in mandalorian battle culture but the emphasis was on being part of a larger force. The jedi for the most part were very inept as military leader with only a few adapting and becoming genuinely good military leaders like anakin, obi wan and aayla secura for example.
@@Blackdeathgaming-yv1kk Did the Mandalorians fight together?
@@4mobius280 of course they did, they follow the Resol'nare and live in clans.
What no one realizes is that the Maginot Line was actually a huge success. It was so good the Germans refused to engage it. What defeated the French was not what people think, it was their border with Belgium that defeated them.
Absolutely it was a choice by the french army to not fully close the Belgium side to force the German coming. This way with mean having all allied combine force in one place
Also the Maginot line did work on the Italian front so well in fact the Italian retreat and loss almost 10x more than the french
While I mostly agree, I think it was the Frenches failure in command that lead to their defeat. They could have easily stomped the n@zis if the French had at least one or two back up plans. I obv can’t type a book here but, it was definitely a failure in command and a breakdown in communications that lead to Frances downfall.
Exactly what I posted above.
In fact, the Maginot Line sort of extended into the Belgium side; it was thought the Ardennes impassable.
The Germans proved that wrong.
@@guichardalex It actually extended to the Belgian-German border. The thing is, the Maginot line was built when the Belgians were staunch allies with the French. It didn't look good diplomatically for France to build a wall between them and their erstwhile ally so the line also defended the Belgians but were supposed to be manned by the French in case of imminent conflict. However, what screwed up the plan was the alliance being broken (can't recall offhand what caused it) causing Belgium to be neutral at the start of WW2. This meant that the French troops were not pre-positioned when tensions rose and when war did break out, the Germans were able to overrun the poorly manned primary line and caused the Allies to defend at the less manpower-efficient secondary line, which required them to pull forces from the sector where the Germans would eventually break through.
I read somewhere that the Maginot line had the same percent of the military budget for the french, as the ship Bismarck had for the germans. The Maginot shaped the entire conflict like intended. Bismarck managed to trade tonnage with the british fleet.
“Young one, I need you to take out that tank.” Jaro Tapal- 20BBY.
Goofy as always
I would argue that the Jedi not knowing the true potential of the Clone army and the clones feeling jaded about the Jedi was something very intentional by Palpatine. He was the grand chess master of the whole war at the end of the day. He used ancient Sith alchemy to make the dark side more palpable and able to cloud the judgement of the Jedi masters like Yoda. Not only that but clones feeling jaded with the Jedi only makes them more willing to betray their masters in order 66. This is something that i think makes more sense in legends where clones don’t have inhibitor chips and knew the plan all along and were more than willing to betray their Jedi masters. But in canon we get a lot more stories of clones who had strong relationships with their Jedi masters, and even chose to remove their inhibitor chips and tried to resist their inhibitor chips telling them to kill the Jedi they loved. That’s not to say there were cases where clones liked their Jedi commanders in legends, some even full on fell in love with them, but for every Fives, Sev, Cody, Wulf, Rex, and Echo there were many more no name clones who were essentially droids who blindly followed orders and were more than happy to kill their Jedi companions and fulfill Palpatine’s grand plan.
I think a nice healthy middle ground would be to see how the average non-main character clone soldier felt about the Jedi's incompetence and also see how the Darkside influences of the war caused more and more Jedi generals to care less and less about their clone soldiers, kind of like Pon krell, maybe more subtle.
I wouldn’t call it blind, considering the clone’s position it was entirely reasonable to rebel.
@@mrman1088 Pong Krell was an anomaly, the avearage jedi care more about the jedi.
"Meth is a helluva drug" - Colonel von Panzershizer
Historically accurate!
I don't know why people commonly believe that the entire German military was hopped up on meth. According to sources I've read, it was really just the Luftwaffe. Pervitin was used to pull out absurdly lengthy sorties extending past 24 hours. However reports determined that the crash and negative side effects were not worth it; pilots would be depressed for at least a whole day afterward. It was only really utilized during the initial blitzkrieg (a term the Germans themselves never used, by the way, but it is a handy term) that took Europe by storm.
If you want a strong hit, then get some of those cave meth mushrooms from Red vs Blue season 15.
@Polemistis0416 duly noted
@@justinkauffman731 In the scene, they make a person run superfast.
Norwegian here, when the germans attacked we had been at peace for 200 years. Our police were so unsure of what to do that they kept civilians out of the way for the germans to march towards the royal palace.
Dang
Probably smart tbf. Police are not soldiers.
To be fair, that the lowest casualties part they could do for civilians.
to be honest...even if they had foughf hard....they wouldn't be able to stop the germans
How many casualties did the norwigans have when the germans invaded? Sounds to me that the police did their job, protect the people, also kept law and order. To pull that off when geting invaded is a tall order.
"A wise king never seeks out war, but he must always be ready for it."
The ancients used to say "Si vis pacem, para bellum", if you want peace you must be ready to wage war, the republic and Jedi demilitarization was a Mistake they made two times.
If something works for a thousand years it is not a bug.
The ancients also owned slaves and fucked kids, so maybe they weren't super clued up on everything.
@@cantionaleecclesiasticum5378 If you go to play dice, with a set that can never roll 7 - you are going to lose. If you run a D&D character where all the results on your d20 are 15 and under, you are in for a bad time. If you go play poker, but refuse to do anything but full reveal your hand to your opponents - you will be taken for everything you are worth, until you are out of literally everything.
This, is what the republic did: They took away their capacity to enforce their laws, and rules in a meaningful way - and as a result, they opened the door for the corrupt especially in the outer rim, and mid rim territories where crime syndicates ran rampant. In the lower levels of cities, crime and poverty ballooned out of control. This, was the result. The only saving grace, was the memory of the mighty republic fleets - but as those dwindled, and those ships showed up less in places that needed the display of force, those who saw bounty in it - began disregarding the republic and started squeezing those beneath them harder, leading to more problems, more corruption, and more poverty. The Jedi, were used to quell uprisings, and enforce the law - which often favoured the corrupt entities, making the Jedi complicit in the abuse of the people: People stopped seeing the jedi as peace keepers, or a noble Savior, or a protector: They were an enforcer, and the republic? Was a Tyrranical abusive government entity.
1000 years of peace, was more 1000 years of systemic oppression using some of the most capable enforcers of the oppressive laws as one could manage to find. Fear, is a powerful weapon - and when it can be backed up, with a display of force: It's highly effective. Couple this with wealth restricting mobility heavily, along with insane levels of ability to monitor, and control the populace through self censorship and rebelion is unlikely to take root, and when it does - it's liable to be easily crushed. And so, it CAN NOT happen in the core worlds, and the outer rim are dominated by crime syndicates that use their own brand of force to keep their influence going. And this, is where we find the republic when Palpatine starts his rise to power: A galaxy filled to the brim with corrupt officials, exploitative trade+banker corperations/unions, and the lack of any meaningful military to conduct defensive operations let alone offensive ones.
The biggest reason the republic lasted as long as it did, in the state the republic was in, was the Jedi's ability to bluntly deal with problems, and the siths inability to form long term strategic planning at the time scales needed to mount an offensive - all while corrupting organizations into their own vanity projects. In comes the Strategist: Palpatine, an actor that forgoes brute force for politics and cunning manuevering, along with contingencies for contingencies.
Lets say the mandalorians were kept militant - well: They have a navy, integrated at arms length with their own command structure, traditions, and more. This allows the Mandalorians to beused as a heavy handed enforcement mechanism, while the republic force is left in long term storage for the most part, with a large part of it's force put in as reservists instead of active duty, making it feasible to rapidly mobilize in the order of 10's of billions of troops for navy, and planetary defence duty basically across their territories. Along with these, you have the local security forces, and information specialist organizations that keep an eye on piracy, criminal syndicates, and so on, and when opertunity strikes - work to fully dismantel them.
In the previously mentioned arrangement - young padawans aren'tused as commanders, instead: veteran commanders from both the republic who may have been put on reserve, or whatever, or mandalorians, or jedi that were trained as military commanders for special operations. In other words: The clones are lead by proper leaders, and more importantly: The activation of reservists across the galaxy means the clone forces are a strictly forward assault force - not a defensive force. And in this set up: Palpatine has a LOT of problems trying to dismantal the republic, because - unfortunately - every actor he uses to make it possible for his plans to work, are liable to be tracked, identified, and questioned and sooner or later: He gets found out, meaning - any plan palpatine takes long term, is on a very short clock before his plans are unraveled.
And so, we come back to the statement: "If you want peace, prepare for war".
@@cantionaleecclesiasticum5378 Except it only worked because The George said so. I dare someone to explain to me in a sensible manner how say the Hutts did not crush a Navyless and Armyless Republic whithin a century of the Ruusan Reformation.
@@danieldimitrov5997 They werent interest, they woundt profit for a direct war on the republic and other cartels might take the advantage and gang on Hutts.
The clones truly saw horrors.
Their first time of real combat outside the training simulations.
Yeah seeing tarkin like that would be scary
You forgot that when an aggressor attacks, he has studied his target before attacking. Something that is taught at military acedemies the world over is that you never attack with a paraty of forces, you want to stack the odds in your favor. Wargamers (and I include myself in that designation) usually learn that lesson without "bloodshed," but real militaries unfortunately have to learn that lesson the lard ways with a large body count.
after seeing your spelling mistake, I cannot help myself.
while you have studied the tank, I have studied the lard
while you have studied the fighter jet, I have studied the lard
now who has the larger body (count)?
I can't see that chest-mounted mini AA-emplacement and not think of "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"'s Vogons, who were such bad marksmen that they used area saturation with chest-mounted pepper-box blasters and still missed 99.9% of all shots.
I bet you couldnt destroy the floor.
The amount of quality content Generation Tech has been putting out day after day is truly impressive. Five stars.
“Most democracies don’t like spending money on military development.”
*United States slowly backs away with everyone else staring intently*
Yeah but to be fair, when have we ever been at peace since 2001. We're out here ordering drone strikes in countries we never even had official beef with
Well, 3 or 4 percent of GDP on military spending makes it a huge amount when we're talking about an economy the size of the US, though it really isn't on a relative level.
Democracies
If the alternative is aggressive Chinese or Russian expansion in Europe or Asia, i think most of the civilized world would prefer the US kept things staus quo
The usa is not a democracy
"Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock." - The Third Man (1949)
ouch
the Swiss never got peace, it was only very recent after the Napoleonic wars did the Swiss have actual peace.
Before that they were the most used Mercenary force even after the humiliating defeat against the French and Milanese. Even after that their mercenary force is used so much that it was only during the Napoleonic wars did those Mercenary days end. Plus their constant infighting for both Calvinists and Catholics were fighting constantly.
And the world wide web as we know it today….
Isn't that quote from lime the antagonist of that movie who steals medicine leading to the deaths of children?
It's also wrong.
What I learned dabbling in airsoft:
Kids are great on the battlefield: They're smaller targets, more energy, different center of mass so it's more difficult to lead your aim.
this also applies to short people
So I'm going to come to the defense of the Jedi strategy at the Battle of Geonosis (kinda). First the scenario: Your target is heavily fortified with anti air weapons galore; you lack sufficient capital ship support to cover your landing; your mission runs on an unknown schedule, you don't know how long you have to pull off your rescue and that time line shrinks once you begin your assault; you have limited forces meaning you can't rely on attrition tactics and a brief window of marginal surprise to gain the combat initiative at the start of the engagement; little to no reliable intel on the situation on the ground, troop layout, defensive lines, etc. Their choice to make a hot landing right on the edge of the enemies effective range of fire and bum-rush in is probably their best bet and not to dissimilar in concept, if less so in execution, as the Rhodesian Light Infantry in similar situations. Also, credit to the Jedi for leading the charge themselves and providing cover to the clones behind them. Sure, there were probably things they could have done better, but all told they could have done much worse.
I partially agree but the Jedi had already been evacuated from the Arena at that point so the time constraint no longer exists. The place is also strange as we can see that the area of the battle is surrounded by mountains and hills which would have provided both protection for the landing of troops and vehicles as well as protected firing positions for the republics Tanks and Artillery. But yeah the Battle could have been even more of a desaster.
@@noahn627at that point the core ships being built on geonosis and the CIS leaderships leaving was what set the deadline. They were the immediate next objectives after the Jedi task force was secured.
Sacrificing that many soldiers for 2 jedi and a senator was a bad choice all on it's own. Anything after that is just adding spice to feces and calling it a meal.
Also the confederacy had massive air superiority with their vulture fighters, that had proved capable at naboo before
Iirc in the early days the clones were always slaughtered in airfights.
You cant bomb a target if you dont have air superiority
i would argue that sending the troops in was the dumb mistake here
by all common sense they would have got massacred if the rebels have held the lines
there is no military or strategic target worth your entire army
One thing that really bothers me about star wars is the complete lack of understanding of scale... 200,000 soldiers to invade a PLANET!? During operation Barbarossa the Germans invaded Russia with almost 20x as many men... and last time I checked the Nazi party was not an interstellar civilization.
Its also something like the total number of clones deployed was like 1.5 million.
Even if you counted droids as casualties.
The clone wars wouldn't even be in the top 5 deadliest wars on earth
It seems like lots of scifi has this problem where they just don't pay much attention to scale.
Yeah. Like in Warhammer 40K, despite the imperium having a galactic empire with supposedly millions of worlds under control, a lot of their largest battles dont scale well. I recall one battle having less number of troops compared the entire battle of stalingrad
The George created the Original trilogy as an Epic FANTASY Adventure with emphasys on Epic and Adventure. He just confused a lot of people by placing the adventure in Space. He gained a huge fanbase with those movies. In the Prequels he tried to move the janre to a sort of a semi-science fictiony space opera, which resulted in a massive dislike from the original fanbase - because they did not receive a new Epic Adventure as they expected. Unfortunately The George was not and is not a good Science Fiction Writer - he just tells great stories on the big screen. SF has specific requirements to be Good SF - and the Prequels were not Good SF. Maybe a semi-decent Space opera. I liked them though despite everything.
What I am trying to say with this huge wall of text (sorry :) ) is - almost NOTHING in the first six Star Wars movies and a lot of the Expanded Universe books and stuff makes sence from the point of view of Hard Science Fiction requirements - because it is not Hard SF and was never intended to be. Every attempt to create Good Star Wars Hard SF while stayng as close to the Original Lore as possible will fail - because the Original Lore is a Fantasy Lore.
Probably computer limitations holding movie producers back to depict extremely large scale battles. Clone Wars 2003 did a good job with the invasions since it's 2D.
Allen. As a student of history yourself. You would know all to well that even in our own past its always been the same.
Young inexperienced officers, usually the wrong equipment for the job and rigidly conforming to a previous pattern. Are often the recipe for disaster.
Those who come through it are the ones who manage to either last long enough to get experience, being part of an entity who can move quickly to adapt their equipment to whats required for that particular conflict and those groups who can improvise on the run.
Sadly the old theory that "if you want peace then you must prepare for war" still rings true.
Regards an old veteran.
It's usually the 'old guard' that are the inflexible ones. With the mindset that 'this worked the last time we tried it, it should be fine for the next time'. This is also generally true in other areas outside of the military, too. Hell, older populations tend to skew conservative in political ideologies...
Usually, the younger officers, those who had never experienced the success of 'old school' tactics would be the ones that adapted and tried new things, if only because they didn't have the instincts to implement what they had(n't) learned through a lifetime of service.
@@derkylos I'd say that's mostly for old guard officers, old guard NCOs are the ones that see the faults in tactics and make recommendations first for changes to the battlefield.
@@derkylos Beware of an old man, in a young mans game.
Some of the most effective commanders have been "old guard" who come in with the attitude "I don't know how this crap works, you private smith - train me like I'm a dumb ass green scrub that doesn't know his ass from his boot straps on the use of this equipment". And why: Because every damn person knows the record of that officer, and what that officer just said is: If you don't know, that's fine - your responsibility is to learn, and take that knowledge to heart and without complaint as to who is giving it to you. And that, creates a very strong sense of loyalty, but even more so: Produces an effective team willing to stand up, and go "I can't for the life of me see how that will work" and from that - you solve the problem.
Where you get failure, is when a strict adherence to hierarchy is followed, without a respect to practical operational knowledge that is needed to be effective. Like, if you use long range artillery like a mortar you can kind of get some work done, but it's value - especially highly accurate modern artillery, is not in barraging an entire area into a flattened field, the value of it, is being able to mark a target and obliterate the threat and move on: Less ammunition, means easier logistics chain. Less standing fire, means less time to isolate gun location and attack it. Faster forward movement, means less opertunity to mount a defense. But none of this is useful, if the officer does not know the capabilities of the hardware and troops at that officers disposal when tasked with a mission.
And this brings us to: Arrogant ego driven officers are the problem - and it doesn't matter their age. It is true, that younger officers are far less likely to be locked into habits, but it is also true that younger officers rapidly moving up the ranks are bound to have an ego the size of a foot ball pitch and that needs to be cut down to size or disaster will strike.
The E-Web was also regularly used vehicle mounted. Basically it is the M2HB fifty calibre of star wars
Ahsoka on Anakin to Barriss
"I'm not Even sure how peacetime will agree with him"
NGL, the fact that their ever was 1000 years of peace just sounds nice as hell.
Yes even species that lived for hundreds of years could live their entire life in peace.
Fun fact: Blitzkrieg is an exonym. A term not invented by those inside the the culture. But outsiders looking in.
The German military didn't refer to their tactics as "Blitzkrieg", it was just considered combined arms warfare. Blitzkrieg was coined later by WWII historians.
Source? Because that's very cool fact
Love is not blind; it simply enables one to see things others fail to see.
The Germans also got extremely lucky earlier in the war. A french pilot saw the entire German armoured force stuck in a long traffic jam. Upon telling his command what he saw they just thought it so unbelievable they told the pilot he must have been seeing things and never sent bomber to blow them up.
WW2 could have been much shorter if the French Command didnt fumble the bag on that one.
It could've been even shorter when Great Britain and France took Romes and Moscows offers and attacked Germany way before 1936
I appreciate that you discuss real history to create a metaphor to understand your points.
🤓🤠
Learned a few things that I've never hesrd in history class.
Honestly, even reading about anywhere having 1000 years of peace should have immediately hit our limits in suspension of disbelief
There is a really good fan story where Kyle Katarn from the Jedi knight games, a seasoned jedi of Lukes order and a veteran soldier the Rebel alliance/new republic goes back in time and basically explains what you did about why letting the jedi be the generals/leaders is a bad idea and suggests putting mandolorians and mercs/planetary militia leaders in charge, and instead use jedi as strike teams for key targets. Unfortunately it hasn’t updated for a while but i remember Tarkin ends up being a huge fan of Katarns for his pragmatism lol
Do you maybe remember the name of it? It sounds interesting.
The what now
I really like how it felt like I was sitting across the table from you at a coffee shop the whole time. That’s a good vibe.
14:14 - I just love Anakin's history with the Y-Wing! I mean, it's so cool that the Y-Wing has a connection to the Clone Wars and General Skywalker as well as the Rebel Alliance!
bro youre really cooking with these takes! especially about how crazy it is that the jedi thought they could be battle commanders dispite at most having maybe 7 guys who even remember the aftermath of the last large scale war
4:35 It's kind of in the name 'Peacekeepers' are for after the war, to try prevent another one from happening, or before the war, to try stop it occuring in the first place.
"The peacekeepers were never meant to wage war outright. They were meant to stop it from escalating to this point." - Federation Pilot: Project Wingman
@@marrqi7wini54 yep. Which also explains why they were there at the start of episode 1, trying to negotiate a settlement without escalating to open conflict... right until people started trying to kill them.
Great video! Really interesting insight into the Clone Wars from the lens of real world wars.
I don't know much outside of the movies but I was surprised that some clones didn't like their Jedi commanders. But it makes sense considering the Jedi were basically a peace keeping force who were not trained in warfare. Sheds a new light to the Clone Wars for me.
There are a couple military sayings I like to live by.
"If you wish for Peace, prepare for War." (If you yearn for peace, you better be willing to fight for it.)
and
"The only thing necesary for Evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing." (Evil only exists if you allow it to.)
9:12 The problem with it is that with Clone Wars the clones are actual people who bond with their jedi commanders, also it creates too much leaks where Order 66 can go to jedi ears.
0:51 pretty sure the germans only had short barrel Panzer IV's otherwise it would've been a slightly more even battle.
Well at least 1000 years of peace is an incredible achievement for a civilization.
Life is a succession of lessons, which must be lived to be understood.
Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. And today? Today is a gift. That is why we call it the present.
The clone's really reminds me of the Italian military during ww2 the troops themselves go above and beyond the command and supplies they get.... ooof
We are Divine enough to ask and we are important enough to receive.
Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.
The deepest craving of human nature is the need to be appreciated.
Smooth jazz is a surprising soundtrack for this vid. 😂
"Armies perfect fighting the last war just in time for the next one."
7:01 when I first saw this episode when I was 10 or 11, I thought that Anakin was too hard for being angry with her. Nowadays I realize that if she wasn’t a Jedi, she would have been court-marshaled and if this was Warhammer 40k, she would have been executed
The trouble is that Ashoka isn't much older than you were when you first saw that episode lol, totally the Jedi's/Republic's fault - why would padawans automatically get the rank of commander and outrank clone officers? Surely younger less experienced padawans should be like corporals or sergeants at most and maybe more experienced ones like Episode 1 Obi-Wan should have higher ranks like captain. Maybe only full knights should have been commanders and only masters ought to have led armies. Or better yet they employ others to lead the armies and the jedi function as elite troops used sparingly for special ops and major assaults.
This video is actually so fucking good, it's really interesting if you compare the situation in the star wars with real life.
The opportunity of a lifetime passed before him as he tried to decide between a cone or a cup.
jeebus that thumb is brutal.
Thumb 👍
👍
Where's my nail at ?
@@youcefsiouda i try not to nail random people from the internet
@@ai-aniverse "thumbnail" ???
Get it ? Ha ha ! 😐
The United States Navy has not fought a fleet engagement since 1945. Since that time we have gutted our industrial base (now called the rust belt) and not invested in shipyards (the Chinese have eight of the largest in the world) but we are still building carriers that take eight years to build.
In 1944 we built over 40 aircraft carriers in one year. Many of them were light carriers or escort carriers. By spreading out our forces the loss of one carrier was not catastrophic.
We have fallen victim to our own success and think giant carriers can be protected but that is a fantasy. Even the Navy’s own war games show that our carriers will get sunk. We cannot replace them. We do not have the industrial capacity to fight a conventional war against China. This is an example of how the winner of a war can stop innovation in their strategy.
FOR THE REPUBLIC
FOR DEMOCRACY
For The Empire you traitors!
WATCH THOSE WRIST ROCKETS
FOR THE GALACTIC EMPIRE
Yeah! Slavery! Taxes! Regulations! Corruption!
Interesting take. Another real-world example is the Russia empire (and its successor states). In every major conflict, they had horrendous losses at first but its sheer size allows them to bide time until they can adapt to the conflict and throw numbers at their problems.
Still, 1000 years without the need of a military sounds like an Utopia to me
Allow the world to live as it chooses, and allow yourself to live as you choose.
Please make a video on 200 First Order Stormtroopers vs 200 Clone Troopers
I second this
@@dogloversrule8476 I third this
Talk about a one-sided beat down, clowns vs clones.
Guys who played soldier to fight a weak republic, vs real soldiers who were born and bred to fight an overwhelming foe.
I am glad that I paid so little attention to good advice; had I abided by it I might have been saved from some of my most valuable mistakes.
"Victory has defeated you! Peace has cost you your Strength! "
This is such a nice take on the Republic and the Clone Wars. Really does make you realize something that sheds light on old grandpa Sheev's entire reason for the clone wars. He probably realized that droids would never be realized as a legitimate means of authority in the galaxy, so he _wanted_ to use the clones since they would help him remove the Jedi and also give old Palps a perfectly _humanistic_ reason to oust them (subjectively speaking). As an added bonus, he would also be able to absorb the entire economic might of the Republic into his Empire, making it a perfect two-for-one deal of removing the original threat of the Republic to the Sith, while also removing the age-old enemy of the Jedi as well.
It was an excellent plan, but not one that could be immediately executed. He knew that guerilla tactics like using the clones as assasins would only give him short-term value. He needed to wipe the board in one fell swoop - eliminate the Jedi before the Jedi even realized they were gone.
But he knew that the clones as they currently were on their planet of Kamino were weak, underarmed, ill-trained, inefficiently used, inexperienced, outclassed, and fundamentally incapable of taking over the galaxy _and_ aiding him in removing the Jedi order. So to remedy this, he basically utilized the droids to incite innovation in the clones and create a fully functional _humanoid_ military that _would_ be recognized by the entire galaxy while also having the _support_ of the "evil" jedi order and _also_ being fully under his total control. Hence the entire reason for Palpatine to let the war mire keep on upgrading _his_ army, even as the casualty count kept going up: it was all coming together😃.
Definitely read the original Art of War by Sith Lord Sun Tsu. Totally makes the entire Clone Wars make absolute sense, and also shows why the Rebel Wars later on was successful as well - because Palp's extended his military might too far (and of course had to trust the management to free-willed agents so as not to seem too tyrannical and prevent total insurrections), which led to complacency in much of the empire and in some locations, gross mismanagement. It's probably why they show not all imperial soldiers can aim well throughout the rebel wars - not enough practice, you would argue.
Blitzkrieg is a Western term.
The German term is as follows:
"All employment of force should have an effective concentration in a single moment, with a single action, Clausewitz argued. Clausewitz called that concentration the Schwerpunkt (“centre of gravity”) where it was most dense, identifying it as the effective target for attack."
The Clones absolutely Carrying the Jedi order as always and then well….
peace causes sleep
the dreams and lethargy deep
with no need to fight you give up your might
so peace you never can keep
The clones were out number 1000:1 and still put up a hell of a fight
All the great performers I have worked with are fuelled by a personal dream.
The irony that if the officers of the later Galactic Empire were in overall command of the GRA they would have done a far more effective job than the Jedi but because of their aggression and battlefield ideology, they suffered against the insurgency of the Rebellion. Tarkin should have been given command...just maybe reigned in after the battle was won so he didn't pull a General Sherman against CIS worlds afterwards.
I like to think that by the cline wars era of star wars, military strategy and tactics were largly forgotten and they just figured "more and bigger" would be fine
I didn't know content like this existed, but I'm lovin' this 'documentary about a fictional setting' thing.
Thank you, an important pep talk these days.
What a 1000 years of peace does to your military?...
** Peace have defeated you… victory have robbed you of your strength! Bane - Batman Rise
Got High and started listening, his intro with the French tank was so good I forgot it was a Starwars video for a minute. 😅
Breaking down my fun cartoon tv show into actual battles and their consequences is SICK - this ROCKED
Nature gave us one tongue and two ears so we could hear twice as much as we speak.
Fascinating introduction to your video!
Love the vids keep it up!
Sort of reminds me of the USA in WW2, in particular our tanks... We... really didn't do much with tanks in the interwar period, and our tanks were all small and very ineffective, which lead to the rushed development and deployment of the M3 Lee, which was admittedly decent for when it was introduced, considering most of the tanks, if they used as 75mm, used a short barreled variant that was very ineffective against other tanks, and the 37mm was still common, though being phased out. However, once we got that sorted, we started printing every improving Shermans, along with a variety of other vehicles that to supplement the armored forces, like Hellcats.
This video is amazing.
hey... i resent that canadian comment... we actually practice the geneva cheklist properly and not just with an entrenching tool
So you're saying Canada is the Death Korps of Krieg.... Understood.
I honestly think that these videos would get more views, and i would watch more of them, if there was less of them. My problem is you guys have alot of good ideas and interesting ideas that could have more effort put into them, a 30 minute video twice a week with lots of cool and interesting indepth study and edit, and more fleshed out ideas instead of rushed ideas for a daily video
The man behind the German mobile war doctrine is a British officer who was despised by his superiors and so ignored the Germans just copied his home work.
General Sir Percy Hobart. Also the tank genius who got tanks on the beaches during D-Day
@Trey-dp6tl you sir are a man of culture 🫡.
The fat electrician has a full history video for those interested
@@alexshtyn6336 as are you it seems
@@josheverett7887 love that video
It does show they are good at their job
even when i was a little 11 year old I still wondered, how the hell was the republic winning?
I like how you reference history. Star wars is cool because it's based in history.
This was really interesting. Tlhank you!
I can’t believe we are extrapolating on a fantasy / scifi / opera epic. Amazing 🤩
Si vis pacem, para bellum
(if you want peace, prepare for war)
I love the opening of the video, is like you are in the future or past I guess of Star Wars. So in real life, the Ukraine War is showing that learning on the go to catch up from WWI to the Terminator Drone wars is a real mess for both sides. That was just under a century without a major war in Europe.
Top post. Subbed.
Thanks for the video.
"Send the next wave of Padawans!"
"Yoda! Kenobi! Where is the ammunition?!"
"We'll gonna take Geonosis in 3 days!"
Going by Legends the Republic had no real fleets to wage war with (against whom anyway?), but the individual sectors themselves could have their own fleets and get away with it just like the Banking Clan and other Separatists. There were legal limits to ones fleet size, class of ships, and amount of weapons on them, but also loopholes for prototypes, live-fire testing modells, and such to go way beyond the legal limits. And bribery.
Some of the Core and Inner Rim sectors had massive fleets to push around other sectors, with political pressure and outright intimidation.
❤❤❤❤❤ love your take, your observation of peace = complacency and hubris.
To further back your point of armies are built for the last war: in my Freshman college history class, my instructor said that in the earlier parts of WWI a large French force of (maybe?) Algerian soldier charged German defenses with swords and were gund down by the hundreds by German machineguns.
In my final for the class, I answered "was WWI the last war of the 19th C, or the first war of the 20th C?" with "yes." Not what he was looking for, but I argued it well enough that I got an A.
So, I agree with you whole heartedly. "Be ready, but not Tarkin ready, for war.
Huh! That’s like the Dothraki going after the White Walkers with swords.
The biggest problem the republic faces in war is just the general writing in starwars.
The jedi, and the new/old/high/whatever republic, are written terribly inconsistently, flipflopping between extremely capable and absurdly incapable depictions depending on what happens in any given scene. Since the jedi and the republic usually control the galaxy at the start of the various stories. The only way for the antagonists to actually be a threat is for the jedi/republic to be cartoonishly incapable. If they were even halfway capable then the antagonists would simply get crushed instantly by the combined power of the galaxy.
In general a lot of writing in starwars doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.
I would partially agree. The thing is Star Wars was conceived as an Epic Fantasy Adventure. The George never intended the Original three to be anything even close to Science Fiction, much less Hard SF - he just thought it will be cool to place it in space. And in Epic Fantasy one has Magic to solve problems. Internal logic is not really needed, nor is it really desired very much. In the prequels he tried to move to Space Opera SF and it somewhat backfired. A lot of Expanded Universe stuff - even rather good stuff -is a valiant attempt to make SF on an Epic Fantasy basis - which attempt quite often fails because one has to retcon a huge amount of important base stuff to do it right, and that will kill the Star Wars vibe.
@@danieldimitrov5997 Good fantasy still has, and needs, internal logic. Your fantasy world still has internal rules, and the world needs to stay consistent with itself, even if those rules include a magic system. Making sure there is an internal logic makes it far easier to suspend disbelief when the rules of this world involve magic and other fantastical elements.
Other than that, yeah George clearly didn't start with a coherent vision beyond the original three and basicly just kept tacking on things as long as he thought it'd look cool.
@@kakalukio I Guess I was not clear enough - that happens to me way too often :) When I say Epic Fantasy I mean stuff like the Forgotten Realms - The Belgariad and the like. Epic Magic, Great heroes and Vilians and very, very little internal logic. Magic works just like the author needs it to - and does not work when it is needed not to work. No magic system or special abilities system, no hierarchy - what beats what and WHY? . Even the best RPGames like Baldur's gate - why? is that spell level 3 and that spell level 7? They are great as games to play, however if the magic system worked as shown in such games - then (my personal opinion) the world around that magic system would look a lot different. There is a lack of consistensy between the magical abilities available and the rules and structure of the world surrounding them.
The is a lot of good fantasy that does not suffer from such flaws - but I would not classify it Epic Fantasy.
@@danieldimitrov5997 Even those have an internal logic to them. Or at least, the ones that care about worldbuilding do. Which covers basicly all the good ones that aren't short stories.
For example, something like baldur's gate has rules regarding ressurection and some rough guidelines as to what is a level 1 spell and what is a level 7 spell. Sure, magic can do a lot, and yes, its pretty arbitrary if something is a first or second level spell, but there are still limits, especially for "low level" characters. And yes, the limits fluctuate a bit depending on the author, one author may make the fireball spell a little bit more destructive than another. But they all agree that a level 1 wizard can't be nuking armies with his fireballs, or ressurect 1000's of allies without any effort.
And those kind of rules are needed to get a coherent story.
Also minor sidenote; games tend to seperate game mechanics from the story logicwise. You can ressurect your allies a billion times when fighting the boss, but if they die in a cutscene thats usually permanent no matter what
This was a very scary message.
Irony was, German Blitz doctrine was a combination of British doctrine and Soviet doctrine.
Whatever we expect with confidence becomes our own self-fulfilling prophecy.
This one goes out to the Mudjumpers of the 224th
Thanks. I'm going to ace tomorrow's test.
You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it, however.