There is some hinting to the flood in the beginning of the previous mission if you stay hidden long enough the two elites talk one asks if there's any word on their missing brothers and the other says still nothing but he's sure they are there then the first says that the Oracle would protect them
Good spot! Still would have liked a bit more meat on the bones, though - a few more hints during The Arbiter would have gone a long way and also given the reveal a bit more weight due to the additional build up.
@@theia1653it's a forerunner installation near a destroyed ring world that clearly had specimens contained. Asking why they are there is like asking why they were on the ring. The real question is how have they not infested the whole station.
@burnttoast.2017 I know that. I was wondering why they didn't move those Flood onto the ring for containment in one place and not have them loosely stored in locations outside of them, to reduce the chances of an outbreak and easier to quarantine if they did.
@@theia1653Well, a station on a gas giant seems quite easy to destroy in case the flood escapes, i think that's a reason. But how could it escape? Why would the heretics release the flood knowing what they can do?
It's scenes like that which imply that Tartarus didn't really have much faith in the divination of the Forerunners or even the Great Journey, he just wants to get his species to the top. Look at how he responds to Arbiter telling him to put down the Icon; "Put it down? And disobey the Hierarchs?!" It always seemed that Tartarus' confidence was within the Prophets themselves as helping him get his species to the top of the food chain, not really any personal conviction in the Great Journey. After all, he didn't seem to question why a _human_ was needed to activate Halo, he just got on with it. I always felt like Tartarus was trying to shut Spark up not because it was contradicting his deep faith, but because it clarified for him that the Prophets were just lying manipulators, who didn't care about Tartarus or any of his fellow Brutes, they were just using them. Great character.
It's heavily implied that the facility was converted to a flood research outpost. The implication is that the heretic leader used the flood as a diversion to try and kill the arbiter, however he's forced into a corner when the cable is cut.
That shielded room he was hiding in was a panic room. For a facility meant to be "flushed" down a gas giant in event of Flood escape, I wonder if there are lockdown protocols for the hangars too to prevent them from stealing a ship.
This used to the favorite level of a friend of mine in my youth. I remember really disliking the elevator part, but he absolutely loved it bc you could move the crates around. These were simpeler times lol
I actually hated this one and The Arbiter especially back in 2004, as they represented everything (back then) I didn't want from Halo. No Master Chief, not on Earth, very narrow environments etc. I've softened on Halo 2 now but I remember wondering what on Earth had happened at the time.
@@BenPlaysGames "but I remember wondering what on Earth had happened at the time." Well, Buck and Veronica's ODST squad delt with things back on earth and, oh, did you mean in the development process of Halo 2?
Not sure about it but my assumption with the moving platform sections throughout Halo 2 and weirdly short Banshee section in this level was it might have something to do with hardware limitations of the original Xbox. A few "breaks" in the middle of a level (where you can't backtrack anymore) might help the hardware by not having render the entire level all at once and give it time to load in new areas while you're stuck on the platform. Especially since halo 2 was A: famously rushed and B: pushing the limits of what you could do on an Xbox, it strikes me as a quick and dirty solution to the problem.
This reminded me that it was also confirmed in Gears of War that those elevator sequences with dialogue or when there's also dialogue and your character can't run only walk and super slow were basically loading zones for the next areas.
Don't get me started on those bloody forced radio chatter tortoise speed walking parts in Gears of War. I've an irrationally strong hatred of them, stupid, stupid things.
Took me the longest time to realize this was its own level and just not the end of the Arbiter. Definitely should have been one level with several long sections cut
@@shifty_dragon3679 yeah think if they had combined them all properly though. Outskirts/Metropolis would actually feel very rewarding to complete as one urban battle, Regret would give Delta Halo an actual finale, Quarantine Zone/ Sacred Icon could be trimmed up into an actually really good sequel to the library (hot take, I’m a huge fan of sacred Icon)
All the split levels that share the same location/biomes etc kind of cuts the total amount of missions in the campaign in half, which for me at least, is my biggest issue with Halo 2's campaign. I want each mission to have a strong and clear identity, which also makes Halo 2's missions way "blurrier", inseparable, and confusing than it should be IMO.
It's sort of a shame too, as a lot of them would make really good single levels with a bit of the fat trimmed. Or squished together into one uber mission like I wish had happened with Sacred Icon and Quarantine Zone (think a Flood-focused version of Assault on the Control Room).
The bungie trilogy loves these moments (though there's less of it in 3). 343 halo barely has it at all and its disapointing. Could have helped make the ring feel more alive in Infinite.
as soon as I saw the green blood splatters on the wall, the things swimming around in the tank and the howls in the distance I thought to myself "oh no......not the flood again!" Then it was pretty much confirmed during the hazied glass segment (which I think still does a very good job of instilling unease) "Me have bad feeling about this" "you always got bad feeling, you had bad feeling about morning food nipple!" "Close your jaws or I shall bind them shut!" One my favorite dialogue lines from halo (damn I miss grunt allies!).
Couldn’t agree more! The flood reveal is a bit of ‘I guess they’re here now’, which is how I’ve felt about this level every time I’ve played it. As for moving platforms, I think maybe Bungie was a bit *too* proud of their engine being able to move large chunks of geometry (BSPs). Thanks for another great video!
Bungie really did this introduction perfectly. Even if it doesn't make much senss. No subtlety, no beating around the bush, just throwing the Flood at you and showing you what they can do now. They knew we were familiar with the Flood already, so they didn't hold back. They wanted us to fight the Flood, so they gave us the Flood. Everything was great, other than that 5 minute long elevator that is nothing but boring. And here's a little bonus fact. If you jump just before the station goes into freefall, you get sent up real fast and die from a fall barrier. Just something funny I did because I thought of it one playthrough.
I don't mind it but I would have liked the question "why?" answered in a bit more detail. They're just sort of there all of a sudden and it would have been nice to have had a proper explanation beyond "the Forerunners had a lab there or something lol".
@@BenPlaysGames Yeah, "why" would have made their introduction much better. Sacred Icon was much better in that regard as we go to a Forerunner Containment Wall set up around a Flood outbreak to contain it that we break through and the Flood, under the control of a Gravemind, immediately take advantage of that and begin to literally flood the wall while we try to push in. That was a much better "why" than in here. Sacred Icon and Quarantine Zone explain why the Flood is there, the Monitor was incompetent and ignored the warning signs of the outbreak until it was too late. Though that is more in the lore rather than the level itself. What we get is that there's Flood because there was an outbreak and this is a Containment Wall meant to stop the Flood from spreading further. Oracle? It's a gas mine we're at, why is there Flood there? It doesn't make sense why a simple gas mine has Flood samples on it.
You knew what was about to happen in the first room with green blood on the walls and Flood in the water tank. No suspense, subtle details, or build up to a reveal like in CE but there was a little foreshadowing if you stayed to listen in on the Heretics talking about their missing brothers earlier. It makes sense to have a research facility for the most dangerous known life form in the atmosphere of a gas giant. In case of Flood escape, cut the cables and everything gets obliterated by the extreme pressures and temperatures. It was designed that way, that the gas mine is dangling from the main station above it that we never got to explore. But why didn't they move the Flood onto the ring?
This mission the oracle would have been fun and better if they included the flood juggernaut and have Rtas come with you fighting through the flood instead of staying behind. Overall this mission is one of my least favorite due to how repetitive and boring it is and due how horribly designed it was.
I've always loved these levels, and I've always thought the Elevator part was legendary. It's slow on purpose to build up the atmosphere and make everything feel creepy and ambiguous. Idk, I've always loved it. Same with every "holdout" section of Halo 2. The whole campaign to me is amazing.
Nice analysis, Ben! I agree the Flood weren't needed in this level, especially with how things go from 0 to 100 so quickly. The Heretic faction was interesting enough to carry the level on its own (even more so with the great terminal cutscenes). I've not thought much about what-ifs, but a scenario where Sesa 'Refumee (the Heretic leader) lives is something I often think about when reflecting on Halo 2. It's a shame (if a necessary one) he had to go out so soon, and arguably an even bigger shame that the duel against him either ends before it gets good or lasts so long you just want it to be over.
The cinematic before the boss battle always cracks me up. Guilty Spark is nearing telling The Arbiter the truth when Sesa randomly decides to open fire. Why not wait a little longer and see if The Arbiter will change sides once he's learned the truth! I get that Sesa wanted to live regardless, but seems like such a strange point to go on the offensive.
I always saw the short banshee section as narratively consistent with level design. You had to head to the center section from the hanger (with the only space faring vehicle) via an aerial transit. So it makes logical sense that you’d have to do it to get back to the hanger from the central section later. Cutting the cable doesn’t magically add ground pathways.
The Flood always felt like they were shoehorned into this level. Like you said, they just show up out of the blue with zero reason or explanation given. Also even having the infection forms able to animate bodies didn't make up for the drastic cutback to their numbers. I remember being disappointed theres only ever a handful at a time, rather than the tides and swarms in CE Definitely one of my least favourite levels in the orifinal trilogy
though to be fair with how fast flood combat forms are paired with the increase in melee damage and the new lunge animations i'd say it's a good thing that you aren't swarmed.
I've actually never thought much about the difference in numbers, but you're right - there's definitely larger crowds in Combat Evolved than there is in Combat Evolved.
Very good points mentioned Ben, specifically something I oddly never asked myself before and have been playing Halo since CE... why are the flood here?! Always thought some remnants arrived by luck after the ring explosion, but still, it's never clearly answered (unless it's said in the terminal videos that I once watched not really paying attention 😅). Also, the buildup as you mentioned, it was very weak, even tho I think it doesn't really deserve a "343 Gullty Spark" style buildup this one was really plain. And talking about that elevator ride... 5 minutes? Could have sweared it lasted more! But that's due to the boring nature of it! It's also like the "train ride" at the end of the mission Quarantine Zone which also feels that lasts too long! Overall great points and awesome video Ben, cheers!
the forerunners had many flood research facilities seemingly retrofitted into almost anything. an arguably stupid decision as after they fried themselves with the rings they left many flood filled labs in innocuous locations just ready to burst from some idiots and create the apocalypse all over again. A big trope with scientist archetypes (which is how the entire forerunner race is introduced as in the early bungie era) is their research is their baby so how dare you even think of destroying it, regardless of the danger.
I don't know if you'd be open to do this kind of thing, but you and Noah-Gervais Caldwell are my two all-time favourite video essayists on the Internet. I would love to see the two of you tackle a big game series together :)
Ehh there it is, cheers mate! I hope you do a full eval on the arbiters levels later in the game at some point as well, I’d love to hear your breakdowns. Thanks for putting out great content as always
I played Halo 2 before Halo CE, and that was interesting because I knew that Flood infection forms were required to reanimate bodies. but then in CE the bodies would reanimate despite all my efforts! That was terrifying, it felt like the Flood developed a new power. They were unpredictable and could not be contained!
I think the entire purpose of the banshee segment was Bungie needing to connect the level back to the seraph room from The Arbiter for the Hereric Leader boss battle.
Fun fact about the elevator sequence. The crates that pop up? If broken, contain infection forms. What you can do however? Carefully walk into them, so they fall off the edge.
But we never knew if Thel (the Arbiter) was at any of where the Flood attacked in "Combat Evolved". For all we know, he was probably stuck on his command ship trying to override the Prophet of Stewardship's incompetence and reclaim the leadership he was forcefully stripped of.
In my head, he remained in orbit on the ships as he was fairly important. I'm nowhere near as well read as some people are lore wise, though, so don't quote me on that!
This might just be doing work for the writers, but I feel like the idea that the oracle is there is probably the only hint to the Flood. Since he's always there with them. In my crazy young mind, I thought he made them but didn't like what they did so wanted to get rid of them.
It’s super helpful on legendary to arm your two elite allies with the two swords in the beginning. All the enemies are unshielded, and there is plenty of carbine issues. This will keep you alive in the next area fighting the heretics and the flood. That area is awful.
Honestly in my opinion, if you were waiting for Halo 2 to launch you were probably replaying CE like crazy getting used to the flood, so they knew they probably couldn't get away with something scary at first, it put people into the mindset of, "oh cool these things again," and you don't think about it much, but then the reveal of the gravemind is a, "oh fuck, these things are worse than I thought"
The elevator is probably the worst part of halo 2s campaign and fun tid bit when you cut the cable at the top of the facility you can look up and see it actually drop another funny thing I like to do is if you jump right as you free fall the gravity will carry you up wards killing you because you zoom out of the map
Realistically, no one could've kept their footing once the station was in freefall. Arbiter would've flew up and everything inside would go splat to the ceiling, the Banshees and Phantoms would not have been able to keep pace at the rate it fell.
Remember Halo 2 development was chaos and likely they didn't really have time to create a different scenario, it goes to show in some other missions later in the game. You can tell some section were rushed or just left be to put more effort into other aspect of the levels, although Halo 2 is my all time favorite game it's still not a perfect game and that's alright. The game would of been a lot shorter without those holdout sections, and there's quite a few of them, unlike Halo Ce where it's just a lot of walking through the levels which made them long and entertaining in some way because you didn't really know what was around the corner. Yeah Halo 2 could've been more but greed & time crunch made it what it is today and for me that's alright because the game is still fun and story wise amazing. It's an actual movie game. As I say too many ideas makes it so that there no clear straight line for the series because almost every idea was a good idea just couldn't implement them in one game. The pill was too large to swallow and Bungie realized too late. Also with the introduction of online gameplay yeah I could see why it was such a chaotic development. The story of Halo 2 is what I was hoping for the 343I era of Halo but they didn't really capture all of it. Although with the given information the game gives you, you can really just imagine what happen in a lot of areas without the game out right telling you which is why I think it's conflicting to a lot of people. Also doesn't help that in Halo 2 you can just skip a lot of those important story beats without noticing.
The first half really drags down the level, it’s just boring slow moving platform with flood, then is just a room where you fight waves of enemies and then the better part begins, cutting the cables, ecaping the station and the fight with Heretic Leader. In my opinion the level would have been more enjoyable if it was a part of the prior level ,making it one long level, with some sections like the platform cut out completely. And of course the video is great as always.
Thanks mate and totally agree. Same with a lot of 2's levels to be fair, there's greatness in them but they needed an editor to come in and do some cutting here and there.
It's the Flood storage tanks, mist, dim lighting, pale white tiled floors and walls which are seldom seen in anything Forerunner, the honeycombed wall in the main elevator shaft that hold Flood storage pods. It gives you a bad feeling, especially a layman finding this strange and ancient but perfectly preserved laboratory, like you just know something evil is here. If you've ever been in a restaurant that has a similarly pale atmosphere, you would get the same creepy feeling.
As much as I love the Flood, I always thought their introduction in _Halo 2_ was rather weak. In _CE_ there's a long, tense, and very atmospheric build-up that unnerves the hell out of you, but in _Halo 2_ it's just like "oh there they are". I would have preferred they saved the Flood until Delta Halo. I'm not saying they had to do _343 Guilty Spark_ again, because that would have just felt like re-treading old ground, but imagine if the Flood's introduction was seeing the tendril snare Chief, and then the Gravemind's voice. You'd be thinking; "...what the fuck was that?"
So the elevator obviously sucks, but I think if the pacing was better and had more variety in the enemies it would work better. Make the elevator bigger like the size of the one on Cairo. Have it pass by windows with Heretics and Sentinels fighting Flood for some Covenant dialog. Then have it make 2 stops before the exit with 1 of 4 doors opening with Heretics rushing out followed by Flood all while Flood and Sentinels are continually descending on the player. This should give the player enough room to not get overwhelmed and limit the issue of the Flood's poor enemy variety.
The slow platforms were partly 'loading' sections but also much more likely because Halo 2 was so rushed. This is now very well known. It was a total mess in development, had a massive do-over part way through the project with huge amounts completely discarded. Including an entire third act set on Earth, that ended up inspiring much of Halo 3's campaign. That also explains why the ending is so abrupt. Ultimately Bungie were aware Xbox 360 was launching at the end of 2005, so Halo 2 HAD to be released no matter what in the final holiday period of 2004 otherwise it could take a lot of PR away from the new console. They had to crunch and pad the hell out of Halo 2 hence the multiple slow lift and waves of enemies, adding great lengths to levels that could otherwise be run through really quickly.
Unpopular opinion but I honestly think it would've been better to save the flood reveal for Sacred Icon. Keep the focus on the Heretics for these levels and leave the player in the dark about their return until then.
I don’t think the chase scene is pointless as he’s trying to get to his seraph to escape. But the boss battle is terrible. Not because of the gameplay but the story behind it. The arbiter was listening to guilty spark and the heretic just opens fire. You can argue that he is scared the arbiter won’t listen but in the terminals he flat out tell 343 that he believes the arbiter will listen and help
I want to preface everything by saying out of the 3 Original Halo games that include the Flood, Halo 2 has the most enjoyable Flood to fight. Halo 1's felt a little boring and just relied on swarms. Halo 3 have the hunter forms or whatever they're called, and are absolutely awful to fight. Not to mention Cortana would make any experience worse. However, them being included in this mission always irked me. Not only do they not enhance any of the arenas they're in but they actually miss the chance for the true flood introduction in the Quarantine Zone/Sacred Icon combo. In those missions, you kinda expect the flood as you've just fought them 1 or 2 missions prior, and all of the atmosphere is the same. If you never introduced them in The Oracle, suddenly Quarantine Zone becomes far more intense. You can tell this mission was probably the one they tested the least. The boss fight is utterly ridiculous, the banshee section could've been cut completely and the lift section should've been 10 seconds with a rapid descent and a bunch of flood ambushing you once. Sadly, Halo 2's quite rotten development has lead to a rather scrappy level. I'd say it's a 7/10 level for me. If instead of the flood we got Heretics, cut that elevator sequence down 90%, cutting out the banshee sequence in favour of a cutscene and you either a) Only give the heretic leader 1 copy or b) Rtas and/or some elites are with you would make for a far more enjoyable experience. Also, not sure if you do suggestions, but I'd love for you to take a look at Battlefield 3's campaign!
Imagine if Sacred Icon and Quarantine Zone were combined into one mission a bit like Assault of the Control Room in Combat Evolved. It starts with you fighting the Flood inside for a bit and then, just as that begins to wear thin, you head outside into the middle of a battle between Covenant and, shockingly, vehicular Flood. Then, a nice rhythm of indoor and outdoor Flood encounters (maybe with some multifaction stuff thrown in) to keep things fresh.
@@BenPlaysGames It would be absolutely incredible! If we merged The Arbiter/The Oracle and Quarantine Zone/Sacred Icon, suddenly they could've added that apparent Covenant Carrier Mission that was meant to be after Cairo Station
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Good Flood or bad Flood?
There is some hinting to the flood in the beginning of the previous mission if you stay hidden long enough the two elites talk one asks if there's any word on their missing brothers and the other says still nothing but he's sure they are there then the first says that the Oracle would protect them
Good spot! Still would have liked a bit more meat on the bones, though - a few more hints during The Arbiter would have gone a long way and also given the reveal a bit more weight due to the additional build up.
Probably the only surprise was, what's the Flood doing here?, at the beginning of Oracle.
@@theia1653it's a forerunner installation near a destroyed ring world that clearly had specimens contained. Asking why they are there is like asking why they were on the ring. The real question is how have they not infested the whole station.
@burnttoast.2017 I know that. I was wondering why they didn't move those Flood onto the ring for containment in one place and not have them loosely stored in locations outside of them, to reduce the chances of an outbreak and easier to quarantine if they did.
@@theia1653Well, a station on a gas giant seems quite easy to destroy in case the flood escapes, i think that's a reason. But how could it escape? Why would the heretics release the flood knowing what they can do?
"That is the *Oracle*!"
"So it is," nonchalant yeet into grav-lift
Tartarus was a great character, shame he lasted so little time.
It's scenes like that which imply that Tartarus didn't really have much faith in the divination of the Forerunners or even the Great Journey, he just wants to get his species to the top. Look at how he responds to Arbiter telling him to put down the Icon; "Put it down? And disobey the Hierarchs?!" It always seemed that Tartarus' confidence was within the Prophets themselves as helping him get his species to the top of the food chain, not really any personal conviction in the Great Journey.
After all, he didn't seem to question why a _human_ was needed to activate Halo, he just got on with it. I always felt like Tartarus was trying to shut Spark up not because it was contradicting his deep faith, but because it clarified for him that the Prophets were just lying manipulators, who didn't care about Tartarus or any of his fellow Brutes, they were just using them.
Great character.
It's heavily implied that the facility was converted to a flood research outpost.
The implication is that the heretic leader used the flood as a diversion to try and kill the arbiter, however he's forced into a corner when the cable is cut.
That shielded room he was hiding in was a panic room. For a facility meant to be "flushed" down a gas giant in event of Flood escape, I wonder if there are lockdown protocols for the hangars too to prevent them from stealing a ship.
This used to the favorite level of a friend of mine in my youth. I remember really disliking the elevator part, but he absolutely loved it bc you could move the crates around.
These were simpeler times lol
I actually hated this one and The Arbiter especially back in 2004, as they represented everything (back then) I didn't want from Halo. No Master Chief, not on Earth, very narrow environments etc. I've softened on Halo 2 now but I remember wondering what on Earth had happened at the time.
@@BenPlaysGames "but I remember wondering what on Earth had happened at the time." Well, Buck and Veronica's ODST squad delt with things back on earth and, oh, did you mean in the development process of Halo 2?
Not sure about it but my assumption with the moving platform sections throughout Halo 2 and weirdly short Banshee section in this level was it might have something to do with hardware limitations of the original Xbox. A few "breaks" in the middle of a level (where you can't backtrack anymore) might help the hardware by not having render the entire level all at once and give it time to load in new areas while you're stuck on the platform. Especially since halo 2 was A: famously rushed and B: pushing the limits of what you could do on an Xbox, it strikes me as a quick and dirty solution to the problem.
This reminded me that it was also confirmed in Gears of War that those elevator sequences with dialogue or when there's also dialogue and your character can't run only walk and super slow were basically loading zones for the next areas.
@@XelitexX360 it's a simply yet effective thing for loading in new areas and a lot of games do it.
Elevators tend to be modern gaming's way of hiding loading screens.
Or to help lengthen the games runtime as the result of being rushed.
Don't get me started on those bloody forced radio chatter tortoise speed walking parts in Gears of War. I've an irrationally strong hatred of them, stupid, stupid things.
Took me the longest time to realize this was its own level and just not the end of the Arbiter. Definitely should have been one level with several long sections cut
Gotta love those Halo 2 split levels
@@shifty_dragon3679 yeah think if they had combined them all properly though. Outskirts/Metropolis would actually feel very rewarding to complete as one urban battle, Regret would give Delta Halo an actual finale, Quarantine Zone/ Sacred Icon could be trimmed up into an actually really good sequel to the library (hot take, I’m a huge fan of sacred Icon)
All the split levels that share the same location/biomes etc kind of cuts the total amount of missions in the campaign in half, which for me at least, is my biggest issue with Halo 2's campaign. I want each mission to have a strong and clear identity, which also makes Halo 2's missions way "blurrier", inseparable, and confusing than it should be IMO.
@@ponskponsk3210 it’s why Cairo Station is the best mission
It's sort of a shame too, as a lot of them would make really good single levels with a bit of the fat trimmed. Or squished together into one uber mission like I wish had happened with Sacred Icon and Quarantine Zone (think a Flood-focused version of Assault on the Control Room).
I was always a fan of the levels where you had 2 factions fighting eachother, while also fighting you. Gives a good dynamic.
Like in Half-life 😊
The bungie trilogy loves these moments (though there's less of it in 3). 343 halo barely has it at all and its disapointing. Could have helped make the ring feel more alive in Infinite.
as soon as I saw the green blood splatters on the wall, the things swimming around in the tank and the howls in the distance I thought to myself "oh no......not the flood again!"
Then it was pretty much confirmed during the hazied glass segment (which I think still does a very good job of instilling unease)
"Me have bad feeling about this"
"you always got bad feeling, you had bad feeling about morning food nipple!"
"Close your jaws or I shall bind them shut!"
One my favorite dialogue lines from halo (damn I miss grunt allies!).
Couldn’t agree more!
The flood reveal is a bit of ‘I guess they’re here now’, which is how I’ve felt about this level every time I’ve played it.
As for moving platforms, I think maybe Bungie was a bit *too* proud of their engine being able to move large chunks of geometry (BSPs).
Thanks for another great video!
Bungie really did this introduction perfectly. Even if it doesn't make much senss. No subtlety, no beating around the bush, just throwing the Flood at you and showing you what they can do now. They knew we were familiar with the Flood already, so they didn't hold back. They wanted us to fight the Flood, so they gave us the Flood.
Everything was great, other than that 5 minute long elevator that is nothing but boring.
And here's a little bonus fact. If you jump just before the station goes into freefall, you get sent up real fast and die from a fall barrier. Just something funny I did because I thought of it one playthrough.
You can fly to the start of The Arbiter too
I don't mind it but I would have liked the question "why?" answered in a bit more detail. They're just sort of there all of a sudden and it would have been nice to have had a proper explanation beyond "the Forerunners had a lab there or something lol".
@@BenPlaysGames Yeah, "why" would have made their introduction much better. Sacred Icon was much better in that regard as we go to a Forerunner Containment Wall set up around a Flood outbreak to contain it that we break through and the Flood, under the control of a Gravemind, immediately take advantage of that and begin to literally flood the wall while we try to push in. That was a much better "why" than in here.
Sacred Icon and Quarantine Zone explain why the Flood is there, the Monitor was incompetent and ignored the warning signs of the outbreak until it was too late. Though that is more in the lore rather than the level itself. What we get is that there's Flood because there was an outbreak and this is a Containment Wall meant to stop the Flood from spreading further. Oracle? It's a gas mine we're at, why is there Flood there? It doesn't make sense why a simple gas mine has Flood samples on it.
You knew what was about to happen in the first room with green blood on the walls and Flood in the water tank. No suspense, subtle details, or build up to a reveal like in CE but there was a little foreshadowing if you stayed to listen in on the Heretics talking about their missing brothers earlier. It makes sense to have a research facility for the most dangerous known life form in the atmosphere of a gas giant. In case of Flood escape, cut the cables and everything gets obliterated by the extreme pressures and temperatures. It was designed that way, that the gas mine is dangling from the main station above it that we never got to explore. But why didn't they move the Flood onto the ring?
This mission the oracle would have been fun and better if they included the flood juggernaut and have Rtas come with you fighting through the flood instead of staying behind. Overall this mission is one of my least favorite due to how repetitive and boring it is and due how horribly designed it was.
Juggernauts were amazing…
@@TheMartyODonnell It's so good to hear from you man!
Random halo fan talking about flood in halo 2: "pls add juggie"
@@zaymac117 probably fake
@@miniaturejayhawk8702 How is it fake? Did you check his channel to see if it's real or not? Because I cannot tell if it's real or a bot.
I never understand why the Heretic leader would have the Arbiter ask 343 about Halo and then not give him a chance to understand by shooting at him
That’s very true. However the reveal that we got was pretty damn good too.
I've always loved these levels, and I've always thought the Elevator part was legendary. It's slow on purpose to build up the atmosphere and make everything feel creepy and ambiguous. Idk, I've always loved it. Same with every "holdout" section of Halo 2. The whole campaign to me is amazing.
To each their own, but I often consider punching myself in the face during that section just to feel something, anything.
@@BenPlaysGamesplay on Legendary and you’ll feel it
Nice analysis, Ben! I agree the Flood weren't needed in this level, especially with how things go from 0 to 100 so quickly. The Heretic faction was interesting enough to carry the level on its own (even more so with the great terminal cutscenes). I've not thought much about what-ifs, but a scenario where Sesa 'Refumee (the Heretic leader) lives is something I often think about when reflecting on Halo 2. It's a shame (if a necessary one) he had to go out so soon, and arguably an even bigger shame that the duel against him either ends before it gets good or lasts so long you just want it to be over.
The cinematic before the boss battle always cracks me up. Guilty Spark is nearing telling The Arbiter the truth when Sesa randomly decides to open fire. Why not wait a little longer and see if The Arbiter will change sides once he's learned the truth! I get that Sesa wanted to live regardless, but seems like such a strange point to go on the offensive.
Halo Canon made a video explaining why Sesa opened fire. I'd definitely recommend checking it out if you want to clear up any confusion.
I DON’T believe The Flood needed an explanation. They required a reminder to be dealt with!
I always saw the short banshee section as narratively consistent with level design. You had to head to the center section from the hanger (with the only space faring vehicle) via an aerial transit. So it makes logical sense that you’d have to do it to get back to the hanger from the central section later. Cutting the cable doesn’t magically add ground pathways.
The Flood always felt like they were shoehorned into this level. Like you said, they just show up out of the blue with zero reason or explanation given.
Also even having the infection forms able to animate bodies didn't make up for the drastic cutback to their numbers. I remember being disappointed theres only ever a handful at a time, rather than the tides and swarms in CE
Definitely one of my least favourite levels in the orifinal trilogy
though to be fair with how fast flood combat forms are paired with the increase in melee damage and the new lunge animations i'd say it's a good thing that you aren't swarmed.
I've actually never thought much about the difference in numbers, but you're right - there's definitely larger crowds in Combat Evolved than there is in Combat Evolved.
I like Halo 2's moving plateforms. They are a unique level design element. One of Infinite's rare memorable moments was a Halo 2 gondola moment.
Very good points mentioned Ben, specifically something I oddly never asked myself before and have been playing Halo since CE... why are the flood here?! Always thought some remnants arrived by luck after the ring explosion, but still, it's never clearly answered (unless it's said in the terminal videos that I once watched not really paying attention 😅). Also, the buildup as you mentioned, it was very weak, even tho I think it doesn't really deserve a "343 Gullty Spark" style buildup this one was really plain. And talking about that elevator ride... 5 minutes? Could have sweared it lasted more! But that's due to the boring nature of it! It's also like the "train ride" at the end of the mission Quarantine Zone which also feels that lasts too long! Overall great points and awesome video Ben, cheers!
the forerunners had many flood research facilities seemingly retrofitted into almost anything. an arguably stupid decision as after they fried themselves with the rings they left many flood filled labs in innocuous locations just ready to burst from some idiots and create the apocalypse all over again. A big trope with scientist archetypes (which is how the entire forerunner race is introduced as in the early bungie era) is their research is their baby so how dare you even think of destroying it, regardless of the danger.
I don't know if you'd be open to do this kind of thing, but you and Noah-Gervais Caldwell are my two all-time favourite video essayists on the Internet. I would love to see the two of you tackle a big game series together :)
This has to be one of my favorite levels for some reason
Ehh there it is, cheers mate! I hope you do a full eval on the arbiters levels later in the game at some point as well, I’d love to hear your breakdowns. Thanks for putting out great content as always
I played Halo 2 before Halo CE, and that was interesting because I knew that Flood infection forms were required to reanimate bodies. but then in CE the bodies would reanimate despite all my efforts! That was terrifying, it felt like the Flood developed a new power. They were unpredictable and could not be contained!
I think the entire purpose of the banshee segment was Bungie needing to connect the level back to the seraph room from The Arbiter for the Hereric Leader boss battle.
Fun fact about the elevator sequence. The crates that pop up? If broken, contain infection forms. What you can do however? Carefully walk into them, so they fall off the edge.
Halo 2 was my first halo game, the parts with the flood were intense to say the least^^
This man doesn't miss with his mission rating
Thanks mate!
The Arbiter not recognizing the smell of the flood is nonsense, as he was the commander of the force on Halo.
But we never knew if Thel (the Arbiter) was at any of where the Flood attacked in "Combat Evolved". For all we know, he was probably stuck on his command ship trying to override the Prophet of Stewardship's incompetence and reclaim the leadership he was forcefully stripped of.
In my head, he remained in orbit on the ships as he was fairly important. I'm nowhere near as well read as some people are lore wise, though, so don't quote me on that!
This might just be doing work for the writers, but I feel like the idea that the oracle is there is probably the only hint to the Flood. Since he's always there with them. In my crazy young mind, I thought he made them but didn't like what they did so wanted to get rid of them.
Like a surprise party only you can see all your friends' cars in the driveway.
Thank you Ben. I was curious about your thoughts on the Arbiter`s first two missions.
Pleasure's all mine dude!
It’s super helpful on legendary to arm your two elite allies with the two swords in the beginning. All the enemies are unshielded, and there is plenty of carbine issues. This will keep you alive in the next area fighting the heretics and the flood. That area is awful.
Honestly in my opinion, if you were waiting for Halo 2 to launch you were probably replaying CE like crazy getting used to the flood, so they knew they probably couldn't get away with something scary at first, it put people into the mindset of, "oh cool these things again," and you don't think about it much, but then the reveal of the gravemind is a, "oh fuck, these things are worse than I thought"
Hey Ben! Love your vids!
Cheers Rob, appreciate that!
Heretic leader: "Ask him about how the prophets are lying."
Also heretic leader: shoots at Arbiter before he can ask about how the prophets are lying.
Just mentioned this in a reply to someone else funnily enough - it's incredibly stupid!
ive 100% completed halo 2 and i didnt even know the banshee chase existed
The elevator is probably the worst part of halo 2s campaign and fun tid bit when you cut the cable at the top of the facility you can look up and see it actually drop another funny thing I like to do is if you jump right as you free fall the gravity will carry you up wards killing you because you zoom out of the map
I love that effect, nothing more fun than shooting down the banshees shortly after too and watching them and their pilots all fall upwards too.
Realistically, no one could've kept their footing once the station was in freefall. Arbiter would've flew up and everything inside would go splat to the ceiling, the Banshees and Phantoms would not have been able to keep pace at the rate it fell.
Remember Halo 2 development was chaos and likely they didn't really have time to create a different scenario, it goes to show in some other missions later in the game. You can tell some section were rushed or just left be to put more effort into other aspect of the levels, although Halo 2 is my all time favorite game it's still not a perfect game and that's alright. The game would of been a lot shorter without those holdout sections, and there's quite a few of them, unlike Halo Ce where it's just a lot of walking through the levels which made them long and entertaining in some way because you didn't really know what was around the corner. Yeah Halo 2 could've been more but greed & time crunch made it what it is today and for me that's alright because the game is still fun and story wise amazing. It's an actual movie game. As I say too many ideas makes it so that there no clear straight line for the series because almost every idea was a good idea just couldn't implement them in one game. The pill was too large to swallow and Bungie realized too late. Also with the introduction of online gameplay yeah I could see why it was such a chaotic development. The story of Halo 2 is what I was hoping for the 343I era of Halo but they didn't really capture all of it. Although with the given information the game gives you, you can really just imagine what happen in a lot of areas without the game out right telling you which is why I think it's conflicting to a lot of people. Also doesn't help that in Halo 2 you can just skip a lot of those important story beats without noticing.
Damn I thought I clicked on an old video not a new one 😊
Perfect timing.
The first half really drags down the level, it’s just boring slow moving platform with flood, then is just a room where you fight waves of enemies and then the better part begins, cutting the cables, ecaping the station and the fight with Heretic Leader. In my opinion the level would have been more enjoyable if it was a part of the prior level ,making it one long level, with some sections like the platform cut out completely. And of course the video is great as always.
Thanks mate and totally agree. Same with a lot of 2's levels to be fair, there's greatness in them but they needed an editor to come in and do some cutting here and there.
another good one
Thanks as always my man!
The level creeped me out so it did what a flood level should do in my opinion although that elevator is just horrible
It's the Flood storage tanks, mist, dim lighting, pale white tiled floors and walls which are seldom seen in anything Forerunner, the honeycombed wall in the main elevator shaft that hold Flood storage pods. It gives you a bad feeling, especially a layman finding this strange and ancient but perfectly preserved laboratory, like you just know something evil is here. If you've ever been in a restaurant that has a similarly pale atmosphere, you would get the same creepy feeling.
i thought u were gonna swear in the one part of the vid lol when you say "i try not to use overly bombastic language"
You can skip the elevator ride. Takes a little bit of skill but it is possible.
As much as I love the Flood, I always thought their introduction in _Halo 2_ was rather weak. In _CE_ there's a long, tense, and very atmospheric build-up that unnerves the hell out of you, but in _Halo 2_ it's just like "oh there they are". I would have preferred they saved the Flood until Delta Halo. I'm not saying they had to do _343 Guilty Spark_ again, because that would have just felt like re-treading old ground, but imagine if the Flood's introduction was seeing the tendril snare Chief, and then the Gravemind's voice. You'd be thinking; "...what the fuck was that?"
So the elevator obviously sucks, but I think if the pacing was better and had more variety in the enemies it would work better. Make the elevator bigger like the size of the one on Cairo. Have it pass by windows with Heretics and Sentinels fighting Flood for some Covenant dialog. Then have it make 2 stops before the exit with 1 of 4 doors opening with Heretics rushing out followed by Flood all while Flood and Sentinels are continually descending on the player. This should give the player enough room to not get overwhelmed and limit the issue of the Flood's poor enemy variety.
Yeah that elevator section is so slow paced and horribly designed.
The slow platforms were partly 'loading' sections but also much more likely because Halo 2 was so rushed. This is now very well known. It was a total mess in development, had a massive do-over part way through the project with huge amounts completely discarded. Including an entire third act set on Earth, that ended up inspiring much of Halo 3's campaign. That also explains why the ending is so abrupt. Ultimately Bungie were aware Xbox 360 was launching at the end of 2005, so Halo 2 HAD to be released no matter what in the final holiday period of 2004 otherwise it could take a lot of PR away from the new console. They had to crunch and pad the hell out of Halo 2 hence the multiple slow lift and waves of enemies, adding great lengths to levels that could otherwise be run through really quickly.
Unpopular opinion but I honestly think it would've been better to save the flood reveal for Sacred Icon. Keep the focus on the Heretics for these levels and leave the player in the dark about their return until then.
I don’t think the chase scene is pointless as he’s trying to get to his seraph to escape. But the boss battle is terrible. Not because of the gameplay but the story behind it. The arbiter was listening to guilty spark and the heretic just opens fire. You can argue that he is scared the arbiter won’t listen but in the terminals he flat out tell 343 that he believes the arbiter will listen and help
Still better than the library..
I want to preface everything by saying out of the 3 Original Halo games that include the Flood, Halo 2 has the most enjoyable Flood to fight. Halo 1's felt a little boring and just relied on swarms. Halo 3 have the hunter forms or whatever they're called, and are absolutely awful to fight. Not to mention Cortana would make any experience worse.
However, them being included in this mission always irked me. Not only do they not enhance any of the arenas they're in but they actually miss the chance for the true flood introduction in the Quarantine Zone/Sacred Icon combo. In those missions, you kinda expect the flood as you've just fought them 1 or 2 missions prior, and all of the atmosphere is the same. If you never introduced them in The Oracle, suddenly Quarantine Zone becomes far more intense.
You can tell this mission was probably the one they tested the least. The boss fight is utterly ridiculous, the banshee section could've been cut completely and the lift section should've been 10 seconds with a rapid descent and a bunch of flood ambushing you once. Sadly, Halo 2's quite rotten development has lead to a rather scrappy level.
I'd say it's a 7/10 level for me. If instead of the flood we got Heretics, cut that elevator sequence down 90%, cutting out the banshee sequence in favour of a cutscene and you either
a) Only give the heretic leader 1 copy
or b) Rtas and/or some elites are with you
would make for a far more enjoyable experience. Also, not sure if you do suggestions, but I'd love for you to take a look at Battlefield 3's campaign!
Imagine if Sacred Icon and Quarantine Zone were combined into one mission a bit like Assault of the Control Room in Combat Evolved. It starts with you fighting the Flood inside for a bit and then, just as that begins to wear thin, you head outside into the middle of a battle between Covenant and, shockingly, vehicular Flood. Then, a nice rhythm of indoor and outdoor Flood encounters (maybe with some multifaction stuff thrown in) to keep things fresh.
@@BenPlaysGames It would be absolutely incredible! If we merged The Arbiter/The Oracle and Quarantine Zone/Sacred Icon, suddenly they could've added that apparent Covenant Carrier Mission that was meant to be after Cairo Station
This is crazy! First!
Niiice.
Halo infinite was crap. I wish bungie got halo back. I cant stand what microsoft is doing to it.