Hey guys, thank you so much for this video! I have watched about 20 expansion tank installations and they all seem complicating. I am not a plumber and I can’t afford their prices so I am going to do this myself. Anyhow, your video explained and gave me the confidence to do this job. Eric
Thanks guys... I knew much of what you covered but thank you for taking the time to put a video 'refresher course' together... it settled my mind for knowing what to do along with the how and why! What I learned new is to check existing water supply pressure so it can be matched with air in the tank. Previously I just aimed for the 40psi +/- that the tanks have in them when new. Sometimes the simple things are the most important, right? Best, Matt
I noticed your tank wasn't supported. When my tank bladder lost pressure and it filled with water, the weight was so much that it broke the cheap plastic strapping tape they had used and severely bent the PEX tubing almost to the point of rupture. For the pennies cost savings of using plastic strapping instead of metal strapping, I almost had a flooded basement. Copper lines are probably strong enough to self support, but if it's plastic or PEX, be sure to adequately support the tank.
Thank you handyguys for the PSA. I just checked mine and it had no pressure. I tried to add pressure and it wouldn't hold any. So I changed the tank and upped the pressure from the factory 45psi to 50psi. My Watts pressure-reducing valve's tag indicated that it was set to 50psi, so I figured I'd match it. I'll check the pressure with a gauge later.
It also helps to have the pressure relief valve pipe empty into a pan under the water heater that can pipe discharge to a drain or sump. A large release of water would likely overwhelm the pan, but smaller amounts won't end up on the floor.
First- Thanks for the video. Other viewers made some valid comments so I won't duplicate them. One thing I would like to say, is that once we are so concerned about doing things right, shouldn't we strap the water heater? For presentation purposes it would only be beneficial to show correct installation.
I appreciate you taking time to post this video. If I may, there are a few crucial errors in your presentation. Please do not take this as rude or needlessly critical, as I am only trying to help you make a better presentation to people who may not know better. First off, those are pressure gauges, not valves. You call them valves in your presentation. Big difference. Secondly, you must be sure to precharge the thermal expansion tank to the proper pressure prior to installing it and loading the other side up with water pressure. If you choose to install it first, you must be sure that your Water Main is turned off and you have drained the pressure from the system by opening the faucet somewhere. Then and only then is it acceptable to precharge the tank to the proper pressure. Lastly, during the yearly check up the tank, you state that you should have a hot water faucet open somewhere while you check the pre-charge pressure. This isn't correct. You must shut off that valve above your thermal expansion tank, and then open a hot water line somewhere. Alternately, you can turn off your water main and open a cold or hot water faucet. The key is to remove all water pressure from the system when checking the pressure on your thermal expansion tank. Merely running some water while you check the pressure in your tank will not achieve this. Especially if it's a shower that you're running.
JimmyLeeHook could I simply turn off the water valve located just above the thermal tank (instead of closing the main valve) and opening a couple of hot water valves inside the house to relieve the tank pressure? Then charge the thermal tank to the proper psi?
Clay Sinclair Hello Clay, yes. That should work fine. Just be sure to open a hot valve all the way, and wait until there is zero pressure on the wetted side of the bladder in the tank. Leave a hot water valve open just to be sure. Sometimes you can get some cross pressure from the cold side to the hot side from mixing valves that leak a bit, such as from a kitchen sink or shower. You may find that merely shutting off the water supply to the water heater doesn't get rid of all your pressure in the water heater because of this phenomenon. But if you keep a hot valve open while you check the air pressure in the tank, you'll be fine. The goal is to have 0 psig on the wetted side of the bladder when you check the air pressure. You can accomplish in any number of ways.
JimmyLeeHook Thank you for your interesting post.. I'd say based upon ur advice... One could simply do an annual maintenance by pulling the expansion tank off completely and filling it to the proper air pressure. Then reinstalling it..
@@mr.bigbrownbass9089 This is what I did in order to avoid the "balancing" act between valves. Took some pressure of the hot water tank by draining the bottom and then disconnecting the expansion tank. Once off I drained the water from the tank, checked the pressure and adjusted it accordingly. Then, reconnect the tank. I find this a simpler, more concise way but as the poster above noted, there are several ways to do this.
very helpful video! of course I have one question.... My house water pressure is about 75psi (taken at garden hose). my hot water heater expansion tank air pressure is 56(+-). When I tap on expansion tank with screw driver it sounds like it is full. When I tested the air pressure I do not get any water spiting out from tank? do I need to replace my expansion tank?
Great info. My house water pressure is a bit low and I heard that raising it requires me to ensure my expansion tank matches it...and I just learned to check my tank at least yearly!
Hi guys good info with 1 exception. On page 2 of the installation instructions under warning #2 is says WARNING Mount vertically in downward position only!!1. Install the expansion tank on the cold water supply line to the water heater at a point between the water heater and backflow preventer or other one-way device (Figure 2). Mount vertically in downward position only.
....my tank user manual also states mount vertically, and it has been installed horizontally :-( It's a French made Gitral VVEF 19. Several of my neighbours tanks have already failed.
adam brown I just bought an Everbuilt and the instructions said you could mount vertically downward or on top. Thank god cuz there isn’t any room to hang downward. These homes were not built to accommodate downward. Either that or I need to get a lower stand and longer pipes to the top of the heater. What a pain.
Thank you for that. I, in the UK, have a mini expansion hammer arrestor tank. Is it necessary to drain the whole system before repressurising? Sorry for being ignorant.
Question. I noticed you have the expansion tank in a horizontal position. Per manufacture instructions of these expansion tanks and per expert plumbers, these expansion tanks should be mounted in a vertical position. Is that correct?
The expansion tank appears to be installed incorrectly as according to the manufacturer of the vessel. Most manufacturers do not design or allow the expansion tank to be installed in a horizontal position. Most tanks are to be installed in a vertical only configuration. The piping must be able to support the water weight of the tank. Always refer to the manufacturer's installation procedures. Installing in the horizontal configuration will cause the piping to eventually sag, crack, or separate from undue strain. Also, most city water systems utilize delivery pressures ranging from 40 psi minimum to 80 psi maximum water pressure. The tank's MAWP (Maximum Allowable Working Pressure) cannot be exceeded when charging with air. Always refer to the data plate or decal on the tank for MAWP rating. Overcharging with air can result in a failure of the internal bladder or allow a sudden rupture of the tank which can cause injury or death to a user. If the city water pressure is delivered over the 80 psi then a pressure reducing station on the main water line should be incorporated prior to entering the house or commercial property. National codes make this mandatory with state and local jurisdictions adopting this practice. This prevents high water pressures from damaging piping, fittings, and fixtures within the building.
Actually, when I referenced the manufacturer specifies for my tank, noticed it mentioned the tank can be installed both vertically or horizontally. Might depend on the tank.
@@jenwhitedesigns if you install horizontally you ALWAYS support it.....if not then you deserve to be sent the bill when the property floods. Bad work is bad.
good video. I would mount tank vertcially so that air doesn't get trapped between bladder and piping. I would strap the tank if horzontal. Tank should be placed at least 18" from water heater(found on directions that come with tank). Add air before installing. I would replace that valve with a ball valve.
On the Bradford white water heater tanks, the anode rod is installed on the hot side nipple. Question: How do you inspect your anode rod on a yearly basis with a ridged pipe install on that nipple/anode rod? Do you cut the pipe every time you service the tank? If so why not install a flex water supply line?
I just replaced my 40 gallon HWH. I replaced the bad PRV outside also. Just purchased an expansion tank ($35) even though I do not have the backflow preventer. Great video, always good to learn.
Actually, you should add the air pressure with water shut off to the house or water heater so there is no pressure on the water side of the diaphragm ,then adjust your pressure on the Airside. Running the water at a sink or shower does not relieve the pressure completely only reduces it slightly. If you don't pressurize the tank this way you will end up with an under pressurized tank. The whole idea of matching the house water pressure with the air charge is to keep the diaphragm expanded completely into the water side of the expansion tank until the water pressure rises above the house water pressure due to thermal expansion.
This is super important, folks! The safest way is to completely disconnect the tank from the system and empty all water before testing or adjusting the air pressure. Nice guys, informative video. But, I had to thumb down this video because they've omitted this crucial step.
@@highball7347 Threaded connections make the removal/reinstall fairly easy with blocking the valves in to isolate the take from pressure. Simply unscrew, and when the drip begins, just catch trapped water with a bucket placed underneath. After the drip stops, then remove.
And its not strapped , when the bladder blows , it fills entirely with water and gets heavy , the copper can hold it but it is Not correct , sharkbites , will leak many many many such cases , put a 3/4 brass tee on the heater and stack it on the vertical
QUESTION: I have a Watts PRV by my water heater, which is set to 50 PSI and has a gauge set in the line to verify, but my full city pressure (on my garden hose) is 120 PSI - So, do I match the Expansion Tank to the 50 PSI that is provided by my PRV that is by my water heater or the full city pressure of 120? Thanks!
Great video guys. I really appreciate this information The explanation that I needed. You guys work well together, but a little feedback whether you want it or not Guy on the right slow down a little bit. Your guy on the left is doing great trust him he sounds great on camera, No need to interrupt and take over. I like hearing what he has to say. Let him finish. Other than that looking forward to more videos
Everything I've read including the instructions with my expansion tank state you have to TURN OFF WATER SUPPLY and drain pipes (turn on a downstairs faucet) before testing tank for pressure. Then put pressure in tank to match your water pressure (usually between 40 to 80 psi).
Great channel! Does it matter WHERE in the cold water line you put the expansion tank? I am looking to install a commercial toilet with a sloan valve in a residential and am wanting enough pressure to help flush it with my 1/2 inch line.
Most new water heaters come with a built in check valve on inlet and outlet of water heater (floating marble) to prevent water back up . This act like a check valve . Trying to understand how an expansion tank can work if the check valve is up stream from the tank .
Exactly, if the expansion tank is "before" the check value (cold water inlet to the tank), the backflow is already blocked by the valve. So how would any back up go up to the tank? This might possibly explained why I have water hammer issue after installing a new tank brand "Rheem". And I searched the manufacturer PDF, the cold inlet does use a check valve. Then I read some other forums and some people suggest to replace the check value with normal pipe without any "ball" to block reverse flow. Now that's probably a more troubling re-install. Probably turn off main, drain all water, disconnect top, install new valve. blah blah.
Great video. I have a water pressure question. My TP valve has a long history of opening to release pressure (7+ yrs). This has happened with 3 difference boilers / TP valves that I've had in my house. When it opens it ranges from a slow drip, to a fast and ongoing drip that could add up to a few litres total, mostly overnight. I've replaced the regulator valve on my main water line last year and have turned down the pressure to a very soft flow, but issue still happens periodically, just a little less water. I do not have an expansion tank. Since my TP valve leaks much more than than the few drops that you described, will an expansion tank fix this problem? Is there anything else you could think of? This is all made worse by the fact that my basement has a finished floor and no drain for when the tank leaks, making it a very messy flood when this happens. Thanks!
Expansion tanks are required for "closed" systems. "Closed" systems have a check valve or backflow preventor. Many older systems are open systems. Is your system closed or open?
I took my two yo exp. tank off to check my air pressure, because it is near the floor and I can not reach the valve. I support it from the bottom. Once I removed it, water continued to spray out of it for five minutes. The bladder was pressed up against the opening allowing water to squirt out in a fine mist. Here in Pittsburgh we need pressure reducing valves after our water meter so we don't have 160 psi coming in our houses from the curb. The Watt brand press. reducer is factory set at 50 psi. so that is the amount needed to charge the air side of the tank. The tank came with just 25 psi. TIP. If you have copper pipes put a dielectric union between the steel tank and your copper pipes or your ex tank will corrode much faster on the potable water side.
Hey guys great video and I'm not even sure I'm gonna get a response to this based on the age of the video. But I went ahead and replaced my faulty expansion tank and followed all the steps got our pressurized and it actually took care of our water hammer issue however it is doing a slow leak around the connection even after using plumbers tape and I really don't feel like I should tighten it anymore than it is and it still does it. Is there a way to remove the newly installed one without ruining it and reapply even more tape for a better seal?
Unfortunately; the best way is to simply do the job again. However; you can possibly tighten it more but you need to know a couple of things before you try it. #1 what are the fittings made of ? if the tank is a steel fitting and looks heavy duty that's good. If the fitting you are connecting to is soldered onto copper pipe, you will need to have a wrench to hold it while you tighten the tank.
If your home already has hammer arrestors at all faucets; why would you need a pressure tank? I know water expands, but how much does volume actually increase when 40 gallons (Worst Case Scenario) is heated from 10°C to 50°C? you think more than the volume of air in hammer protectors?
Put a ball valve between the expansion tank and the cold water inlet to isolate it for testing without having to drop the entire system. As Delta T stated below you cannot test the air pressure at the schrader valve accurately with the static house pressure against the tank. Either disconnect the expansion tank, charge it and reinstall or isolate it, drain the pressure, charge then reenergize it. Otherwise you guys did ok.
A valve on the inlet of the expansion tank is superfluous. You still need to depressurize the inlet (water side) to the tank to properly check the air pressure. Granted, a valve in said location could make it easier to remove the tank, dump out the water then check the air pressure. But then you need to get more teflon tape or pipe dope and clean & reinstall the expansion tank. A lot of unnecessary work. Just shut-off water supply upstream of tank & heater, even if it's the main entrance valve. Open a cold & hot water faucet anywhere in the house to relieve the tank water pressure, the tank does NOT need to be drained, only depressurized.
Why doesn't the pressure relief valve release the excess press? I have well water and don't know if I have a back. flow preventor, I do have a bladder on the pipe coming from the well (to reduce cycling the pump) so can water escape that way? either into the well or the well bladder?
So i was told to put in an exoansion tank to fix my water spike/ hammer issue. I have arrestors on every appliance and even miltiple on the bigger ones, installed as close to the appliance as possible. Anywho my regular pressure is 60 psi regulated via prv at city main. Well with all the arrestors my gauge still hits levels of 130 psi according to the dial with the floating needle that reads highest pressures.. never seen it spike before but everytime i reset it Next time I look its back at 130 or around. So would i need to have an expansion tank set at 60 or 130? I would think 130 would just push everything out and only be effective during those spikes which is dumb to do. But with 60 than the spikes in my opinion would still hit high pressures.. only 60 pounds of cushion which it already has.. dunno Just waiting for a pipe to blow..
there is another video that shows we should shut off the cold water inlet to the heater, open the hot water and let the water pressure drop to 0 (little or no water coming out of the hot water outlet) before measuring the expansion tank air pressure. In this video, they just recommended keeping one hot water outlet open while pressurizing the tank. I wonder which approach is correct ?
We have really hard water, we have a water softener but the water tank still gets massive ‘furring’, what is the correct way to turn the tank into a closed system so I can pump (and drain) some decalification solution as I do in my radiators
I have an expansion tank. It was charged to 60psi to match my water pressure, while sitting on floor. I happen to have a pressure gauge installed on my cold water line right after my meter, and I noticed that after significant amount of hot water usage (ie when water heater is firing), that my system pressure goes up to around 130psi! I thought that's what the expansion tank was suppose to prevent. Any thing I should check or do?
I think I have a noise as a result of the expansion tank being under pressurized. I bought a new one. The old one had well over 140 psi and a lot of filthy water in it. I put the new one on and the noise I had quit. Now 4 days later I get a siren humming sound. Any ideas? I have a video of the sound and the water heater in the mud room. Not sure what to do. Maybe just add it as a new video. Thanks.
the air-pressure in the expansion tank and the water pressure without depressurizing the pipes are identical. Does this mean i am in good shape ? one concern i have is about the quantity of air in the expansion tank.
Why when i set the water temperature to 180 degrees my Hydronic boiler goes past 30 psi for a two family house.Should I change the expansion tank from Ex30 to a Ex60 expansion tank.
I agree with most of this. You don't need a gauge to see if the bladder has leaked. If you add air to the bladder, you should shut off the water to the tank and relieve the pressure at a faucet. I don't think you should add the same pressure as your service pressure as he suggested. That would defeat it's ability to expand. The idea is to allow the water side to expand toward the side of lower pressure (the air side).
+bernie10315 Thanks for checking in. I thought you added about same air pressure as water pressure so that the bladder remains neutral during normal periods. It is only when the pressure begins to raise (from being heated) that it expands into the bladder as the water pressure then is higher than the air pressure.
If both sides are the same, expansion has nowhere to go. The bladder actually holds the service pressure. If service side pressure increases, it actually pushes the bladder out like a balloon. The more it pushes out the higher the air side goes, approaching same pressure. The charge pressure is there to keep the bladder from popping like a balloon.
I have 2 heaters and expansion tank for each. one has pressure 55 psi and other has 75 psi. system pressure is 60 psi. Recently I am getting warm water from cold faucet. I changed tub cartridge but still getting warm water. What can be the issue? Faulty heat trap?
Great Video guys!.... I was at my parents house and decided to test their pressure release valve on the water heater. After the test, the valve started to leak, it didn't leak before the test. i have never seen the separate tank like you explained. I was going to just change the pressure release valve but now I will do your test. Any advice? Again, great video!!!
the good news is that it is easy to replace the pressure release valve. Installing a new tank on a system that does not already have one is a whole other story.
All the installation info I've seen shows the tanks being installed vertically. Yours is the only one I've seen in the horizontal position. Won't that effect the operation?
Hate to disagree, Handyguy. While it is true, a horizontal installation will not affect the operation of the expansion tank (when the tank is working properly) it will likely result in a misdiagnosis by the folks watching your video. The best installation position for the tank is "Vertical" with the adjoining water pipe located above the tank. If you will view the "failed tank" shown in your video (@ 3:54) the Air Valve is below the level of the tank's threaded connection to the water pipe. Thus, when the air valve is depressed, water escapes from the valve, and it is obvious that the bladder is ruptured. However, bear with me for a moment, when I say that the installed position of the Air Valve is random at best, for if the installer had given the wrench another half turn, the air valve would be below the tank's inlet connection. The significance of this becomes clear, when one pictures the effect of a ruptured bladder in a failed tank. The air pressure that was previously contained in the bladder is released into the "water side" of the tank, where it fills the upper interior half of the tank, and any additional air volume escapes through the threaded fitting and into the plumbing system. Here's where the problem begins: Placing a pressure gauge on a "ruptured" tank's valve will read the correct pressure (water supply pressure) and air will escape when the valve is depressed... if the valve is "Above" the Inlet Fitting. Conversely, depressing the valve will result in a stream of water... if the valve is "Below" the tank's Inlet Fitting. Since your videos are intended to educate the layman viewers, who may not be experienced with Expansion Tanks, you may see how a DIY viewer could check a failed tank and deem it to be good, based on the random position of the Air Valve when it was installed. I think it would serve your viewers better, if you were to recommend the vertical installation of expansion tanks, when possible, and if a horizontal installation must be made; to take care to position the Air Valve in the lower position. Additionally, it would avoid headaches, frustration, and perhaps even unnecessary parts replacement, by at-home DIYers, to suggest removing the Air valve itself, to test for water intrusion, as it would allow for any trapped air to be expelled, followed by water from the system. The air valves are less than a dollar at any hardware store, or tire shop, and might as well be replaced when evaluating the expansion tank. Thanks for your videos!
Damn. Just drained my water heater due to muddy looking supply from the city maintenancing fire hydrants and I figured I'd drain that tank. Read afterwards it's pre charged. I'm just glad no one's saying nor the label says nitrogen. I can do that but not tonight. And finding a pressure gauge in my garage will probably suck.
Yesterday, I replaced a 40gal hot water tank in my home. I saw your video when I was done and decided to check the air pressure in my expansion tank and found that the bladder had failed. Today, I changed the expansion tank. Before I installed it, I checked the water pressure coming into the house and found it to be 70psi. I pre charged the expansion tank to 70psi, as you suggested, and installed the tank. When I was done, I turned the main water back on and ran a few faucets to remove all the air from the lines. Now, my "hot water" pressure is very low. the cold seems the same as it was before the work I did but the hot seems like half the pressure is gone. Any ideas why? I installed everything identical to what was previously installed so I can't figure out what the problem is. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thank you in advance for all your help.
Stitch Boucher You should probably have the valve that feeds cold water to the water heater checked, if it is an old gate valve it may be stuck partially closed.
Stitch Boucher Go to Lowes or Home depot and buy a pressure gage that screws onto the drain of your water heater. I bet the pressure is 70 psi. My guess is that you placed a restriction somewhere in your hot line when you installed the new water tank. Look for stuck valves, and any restrictions. But first, check the pressure at the water heater using the gage to be sure nothing weird is happening.
If you read the instruction from the manufacturer on MOST expansion tanks, it clearly states that you should not check air pressure, nor add air to the tank while its connected to the water system. You must shut the water off to the system drain down any pressurized water and remove the tank. THEN check the pressure. If the bladder has lost its air pressure, the air valve (or bladder) is worn out and it's time for a new expansion tank. These are not tires.
Pathmaker Plumbing Thats a lot of trouble when you simply do not have any pressure in your tank. Easy to add some pressure so you don't have water shooting out your T&P valve. It also is an easy way to make sure it has not failed outright with water coming out. But you are correct as far as getting proper pressure in the tank...water should be off and drained.
Water line makes noise like water hammer but only when I turn water on Lived in house for 13 years and always made this sound Replaced frozen/broken backflow device and water regulator shortly after moving in Makes no difference which temperature I use House PSI 40 Drained entire line from curbside and refilled with highest shower spigot open Still have noise at all faucets and either temperature Closed system with backflow device Do I need water arrestor(s) or an expansion tank and where???
I replaced mine about 5 years ago. I now have hot water coming out of the cold tap. Is this possibly the reason? When I get home, I'm going to check mine. I'll let you know.
I'm not a plumber, you should always check with one. However, do you have a back flow prevention valve on the system? They didn't use them back when. We just installed one. They're cheap and easy to do, and may be required by code today.
Handyguys. I have a 7yr old townhouse (all systems are 7yrs old by now) which has an expansion tank mounted on the cold inlet side just above the hot water heater. I have experienced no anomalies with the plumbing system all 7 years. About 1 month back, hot (I mean HOT) water started to come out of the cold taps; this occurs with all faucets at bathrooms and kitchen. The cold water will come out from the cold side after running the cold side faucet for about 5 min. Is this a manifestation of a failed or malfunctioning (incorrect pressure) of the expansion tank? Or is there something else more intriguing at work?
Do not attempt to adjust the tank pre-charge once installed on the system and under the system pressure. The expansion tank should be pre-charged to the incoming system water pressure but must not exceed 80 psi. Failure to properly adjust the precharge will shorten the life of the product.
If you Dont completely drain the water pressure off of the expansion tank before you test the pressure on the expansion tank, then the tank pressure will read the same pressure as the water pressure. If there is 20 psi on the tank when there is no pressure on the potable connection and than add 50 psi water pressure, the bladder will move to equalize and compress the air pressure to 50 psi. You may think the pressure in the tank is fine when when the bladder may be almost maxed out.
Yes, what was said in the video appears to be incorrect and Robert is right. You have to remove all pressure from the tank before checking with the tire gauge. Some expansion tank installs have a separate shut off valve just for the tank which makes checking easy.
I have an expansion tank that has failed, sprayed water all over my laundry room for idk how many hours. The tank is on the hot exit line instead of the cold in line. The unit is 3 years old and since the install we have had many other issues, pipes rattle, 2 faucets leak, and 1 tub faucet leak. Are these also problems from the tank?
My question: to what pressure do I set my new expansion tank? It came @40 psi. I have a city water system. I have a water stove that is plumbed so flow goes CITY/WATER STOVE/WATER HEATER. The water stove can be bypassed. There was no expansion tank on the system before installing the water stove. The bypass to the water stove is normally closed. There is a back flow preventer (check valve) en route to the water stove. I have an expansion tank right after that, in my house water heater enclosure. It failed. My new expansion tank, out of the box, was checked to be at the factory 40 psi. The directions say to "adjust before installing." I've not yet installed. I've been told that the tank should be set 2 psi below "the lowest system pressure." The pressure at my hose bib outside is 80 psi with zero flow. I opened 2 sinks, a shower, and started filling my washing machine. The pressure dropped to 32 psi. There is a pressure regulator coming in to the house. I don't know the pressure on the water heater. Q: Do I adjust, and if so, to what pressure? Q: When I check periodically (and there is only air in the tank), do I check with the water off and vented through an upstairs sink? And do I change the pressure on the tank as needed?
The tank on my system has a label on it stating 15 lbs. Water pressure ranges from 40/60 on a pressure switch. So disregard the label and put between 40/60 lbs of air pressure ? I have a well if that makes any difference..
I have pipe hammering. A plumber replaced my expansion tank, and this seemed to fix it for a couple months, but now they are banging again. Did the plumber just get some air in the pipes, and as the air worked it's way out the banging started again, or will an expansion tank fix pipe hammering? The hammering appears to be from really long pipes going up to a top floor washing machine. Is there a better way to fix this water hammering.
Find the cause, such as a quick closing valve. Example: Such as a washing machines solenoid valves that control the incoming water. Loosely supported pipes will typically amplify the effect of water hammering, also.
I didn't read all the comments so forgive me if someone has already mention what you guys forgot to mention. Assuming of course you know. I'm pretty sure the pro on the left new. If by chance you had say half of the air you should have in that tank when testing it, it would still read the water pressure. As when you fill the system, there can't be any pressure from the water, as the pro mentioned about closing the valve entering the water heater and opening a hot water valve elsewhere, to relieve the pressure.(Of course the higher the opened faucet the higher the pressure you still have on the water side.1 psi = 2.31 feet of water.) The reason for this is to expand that bladder to its maximum size at the required pressure. This allows maximum volume for expansion when it happens. I hope I explained it properly. Just remember that you can have good pressure with very little volume of air. But the larger volume is a must to take up the expanding water.
I understand that the water as it pressurizes will try to feed back to its primary inlet. This is why an expansion tank is necessary for the Cold water side, of the water heater's inlet . My question is, can pressure also go towards the appliances, such as dishwasher sinks and washer. I ask this because every once in awhile my dishwasher and washer will release about a cupful of water. It would have to be the hot water that's building up the pressure because there is no cold water that runs to the dishwasher, and from time to time even the faucet in my kitchen , which is spring based sprays several drops of water into the sink. I am worried about the PEX, because I have seen slippage. Any ideas of what I can put in to take the pressure when all of the water sources are off. There is an expansion tank which is only about a year old. There is no water being released from the pressure release valve on the side of the water heater. Any ideas?
i know just enough to be dangerous so double check this. If you have one handle faucets it is possible for the pressure to bleed over into cold side system.
sorry sent link to same vid. Actually I am not sure what video you are referring to. I think we were just talking about Brian's replacement and then showed some video from that while we were talking. You see the leaking tank being removed towards end of video.
There are potable and non-potable versions of the expansion tank available. Just replaced mine in my basement in-floor heat/hot water system. With it being a closed loop and hot water not being used for household use I saved over $30 installing the non-potable version.
good idea. It is no more difficult then filling a bike tire. You can use an air compressor or a bike pump if you can get the hose to reach. I just used the compressor tank/hose from my pneumatic nailer but this is really overkill.
In the UK only registered men are allowed to work on unvented cylinders. They have more controls being safer. USA take note. The pressure vessel should be at east 10% of the cylinder volume - that expansion vessel looks too small. Best have it on the cold feed where it is cooler.
Should you not be bracing that expansion tank? Everything i have read clearly states that if you mount it horizontally off a vertical pipe you need to properly support it. You are putting lots of stress on that T valve, especially if the tank fails. Thanks.
If I were checking the charge on the water expansion tank bladder and got water out of it ... I would think the bladder was ruptured and the unit i in need of replacement. If this is correct, please explain to me how this bladder is good if water comes out of the air fitting?
look at the start of this video ... perfect example of a bad expansion tank bladder. Why do they call it an expansion tank when in industrial applications it is called an Accumulator?
Question...What if the tank is mounted AFTER the street pressure reducer? I have to look at mine but am thinking such is my case. I wouldn't want to fill my tank to 50lbs then would I?
Derek. The Pressure reducer is before the supply from city enters into your house. Usually is by the main shut off . Water heater is installed downstream from pressure reducer. Yes you are right. If reduced pressure is 40 PSI then Expansion tank air pressure must equalize that.
yes I can I will check it again in an hour or so butt don't think it is holding air looked up on line they arenot that expensive if that is the case thank you
My main water line reads 60 psi, I turned off the cold water line to the water heater tank and opened the faucet. I am getting 0 psi on the expansion tank. If I add air to it , it keeps dropping to zero. When i close the faucet and turn on the water to the water heater tank, the pressure on the expansion tank gets to 53 psi. Is this normal? There is no water or leak on the expansion tank.
my expansion tank leaked and made a huge mess. alot of water damage. the tank needed to be replaced. how can i avoid another leak. the last tank was only a year and a half old.
I just install my pressure tank to my water heater but I install the tee on top of the pressure tank and one end to the valve and other to water heater. did I install it wrong or just wasted copper? I notice they put the tee on the water valve and one hose to the tank. just like yours but you Installed it sideways and wasted no copper. but mine is upward and had to send copper line back and forth. any suggestions 🤔 anyone??
So being on a well with a pump in a 80 year old home I dont need that tank?...I keep losing water heaters about ever 10 years. Mine just barfed yesterday and the guy....not seeing the home yet...was talking about adding one.
Hey guys, thank you so much for this video! I have watched about 20 expansion tank installations and they all seem complicating. I am not a plumber and I can’t afford their prices so I am going to do this myself. Anyhow, your video explained and gave me the confidence to do this job. Eric
This video was awesome! Replaced my expansion tank on my own and did it right. Total out of pocket was $65 and I did it in under an hour! Thanks guys!
Thanks guys... I knew much of what you covered but thank you for taking the time to put a video 'refresher course' together... it settled my mind for knowing what to do along with the how and why! What I learned new is to check existing water supply pressure so it can be matched with air in the tank. Previously I just aimed for the 40psi +/- that the tanks have in them when new. Sometimes the simple things are the most important, right? Best, Matt
Thank you for posting. Very informative, it really helped me understand the fundamentals of what is going on with my system, and how to fix it.
I noticed your tank wasn't supported. When my tank bladder lost pressure and it filled with water, the weight was so much that it broke the cheap plastic strapping tape they had used and severely bent the PEX tubing almost to the point of rupture. For the pennies cost savings of using plastic strapping instead of metal strapping, I almost had a flooded basement. Copper lines are probably strong enough to self support, but if it's plastic or PEX, be sure to adequately support the tank.
Thank you handyguys for the PSA. I just checked mine and it had no pressure. I tried to add pressure and it wouldn't hold any. So I changed the tank and upped the pressure from the factory 45psi to 50psi. My Watts pressure-reducing valve's tag indicated that it was set to 50psi, so I figured I'd match it. I'll check the pressure with a gauge later.
It also helps to have the pressure relief valve pipe empty into a pan under the water heater that can pipe discharge to a drain or sump. A large release of water would likely overwhelm the pan, but smaller amounts won't end up on the floor.
First- Thanks for the video. Other viewers made some valid comments so I won't duplicate them. One thing I would like to say, is that once we are so concerned about doing things right, shouldn't we strap the water heater? For presentation purposes it would only be beneficial to show correct installation.
I think so. Two adjustable straps around tank with two rigid straps screwed at top.
I appreciate you taking time to post this video. If I may, there are a few crucial errors in your presentation. Please do not take this as rude or needlessly critical, as I am only trying to help you make a better presentation to people who may not know better. First off, those are pressure gauges, not valves. You call them valves in your presentation. Big difference. Secondly, you must be sure to precharge the thermal expansion tank to the proper pressure prior to installing it and loading the other side up with water pressure. If you choose to install it first, you must be sure that your Water Main is turned off and you have drained the pressure from the system by opening the faucet somewhere. Then and only then is it acceptable to precharge the tank to the proper pressure. Lastly, during the yearly check up the tank, you state that you should have a hot water faucet open somewhere while you check the pre-charge pressure. This isn't correct. You must shut off that valve above your thermal expansion tank, and then open a hot water line somewhere. Alternately, you can turn off your water main and open a cold or hot water faucet. The key is to remove all water pressure from the system when checking the pressure on your thermal expansion tank. Merely running some water while you check the pressure in your tank will not achieve this. Especially if it's a shower that you're running.
JimmyLeeHook could I simply turn off the water valve located just above the thermal tank (instead of closing the main valve) and opening a couple of hot water valves inside the house to relieve the tank pressure? Then charge the thermal tank to the proper psi?
Clay Sinclair Hello Clay, yes. That should work fine. Just be sure to open a hot valve all the way, and wait until there is zero pressure on the wetted side of the bladder in the tank. Leave a hot water valve open just to be sure.
Sometimes you can get some cross pressure from the cold side to the hot side from mixing valves that leak a bit, such as from a kitchen sink or shower. You may find that merely shutting off the water supply to the water heater doesn't get rid of all your pressure in the water heater because of this phenomenon. But if you keep a hot valve open while you check the air pressure in the tank, you'll be fine.
The goal is to have 0 psig on the wetted side of the bladder when you check the air pressure. You can accomplish in any number of ways.
JimmyLeeHook Thank you for your interesting post.. I'd say based upon ur advice... One could simply do an annual maintenance by pulling the expansion tank off completely and filling it to the proper air pressure. Then reinstalling it..
@@mr.bigbrownbass9089 This is what I did in order to avoid the "balancing" act between valves. Took some pressure of the hot water tank by draining the bottom and then disconnecting the expansion tank. Once off I drained the water from the tank, checked the pressure and adjusted it accordingly. Then, reconnect the tank. I find this a simpler, more concise way but as the poster above noted, there are several ways to do this.
best video as far as expansion tank. great job guys
very helpful video! of course I have one question.... My house water pressure is about 75psi (taken at garden hose). my hot water heater expansion tank air pressure is 56(+-). When I tap on expansion tank with screw driver it sounds like it is full. When I tested the air pressure I do not get any water spiting out from tank? do I need to replace my expansion tank?
Great info. My house water pressure is a bit low and I heard that raising it requires me to ensure my expansion tank matches it...and I just learned to check my tank at least yearly!
Hi guys good info with 1 exception. On page 2 of the installation instructions under warning #2 is says WARNING Mount vertically in downward position only!!1. Install the expansion tank on the cold water supply line to the water
heater at a point between the water heater and backflow preventer or
other one-way device (Figure 2).
Mount vertically in downward position only.
....my tank user manual also states mount vertically, and it has been installed horizontally :-( It's a French made Gitral VVEF 19. Several of my neighbours tanks have already failed.
adam brown I just bought an Everbuilt and the instructions said you could mount vertically downward or on top. Thank god cuz there isn’t any room to hang downward. These homes were not built to accommodate downward. Either that or I need to get a lower stand and longer pipes to the top of the heater. What a pain.
@@dcwatashi vertical yes horizontal no
Thank you for that. I, in the UK, have a mini expansion hammer arrestor tank. Is it necessary to drain the whole system before repressurising? Sorry for being ignorant.
Question. I noticed you have the expansion tank in a horizontal position. Per manufacture instructions of these expansion tanks and per expert plumbers, these expansion tanks should be mounted in a vertical position. Is that correct?
The expansion tank appears to be installed incorrectly as according to the manufacturer of the vessel. Most manufacturers do not design or allow the expansion tank to be installed in a horizontal position. Most tanks are to be installed in a vertical only configuration. The piping must be able to support the water weight of the tank. Always refer to the manufacturer's installation procedures. Installing in the horizontal configuration will cause the piping to eventually sag, crack, or separate from undue strain.
Also, most city water systems utilize delivery pressures ranging from 40 psi minimum to 80 psi maximum water pressure. The tank's MAWP (Maximum Allowable Working Pressure) cannot be exceeded when charging with air. Always refer to the data plate or decal on the tank for MAWP rating. Overcharging with air can result in a failure of the internal bladder or allow a sudden rupture of the tank which can cause injury or death to a user. If the city water pressure is delivered over the 80 psi then a pressure reducing station on the main water line should be incorporated prior to entering the house or commercial property. National codes make this mandatory with state and local jurisdictions adopting this practice. This prevents high water pressures from damaging piping, fittings, and fixtures within the building.
Actually, when I referenced the manufacturer specifies for my tank, noticed it mentioned the tank can be installed both vertically or horizontally. Might depend on the tank.
You are right it works better that way
@@jenwhitedesigns if you install horizontally you ALWAYS support it.....if not then you deserve to be sent the bill when the property floods. Bad work is bad.
murph1329 WHY? Why make that comment? I just mentioned manufacturer specs.
@@jenwhitedesigns because my house flooded due to a crappy plumber not securing the expansion tank after installing it horizontally
good video. I would mount tank vertcially so that air doesn't get trapped between bladder and piping. I would strap the tank if horzontal. Tank should be placed at least 18" from water heater(found on directions that come with tank). Add air before installing. I would replace that valve with a ball valve.
On the Bradford white water heater tanks, the anode rod is installed on the hot side nipple.
Question: How do you inspect your anode rod on a yearly basis with a ridged pipe install on that nipple/anode rod? Do you cut the pipe every time you service the tank? If so why not install a flex water supply line?
I just replaced my 40 gallon HWH. I replaced the bad PRV outside also. Just purchased an expansion tank ($35) even though I do not have the backflow preventer. Great video, always good to learn.
Why? You just added a component that requires maintenance but provides no function.
Actually, you should add the air pressure with water shut off to the house or water heater so there is no pressure on the water side of the diaphragm ,then adjust your pressure on the Airside. Running the water at a sink or shower does not relieve the pressure completely only reduces it slightly. If you don't pressurize the tank this way you will end up with an under pressurized tank. The whole idea of matching the house water pressure with the air charge is to keep the diaphragm expanded completely into the water side of the expansion tank until the water pressure rises above the house water pressure due to thermal expansion.
This is super important, folks! The safest way is to completely disconnect the tank from the system and empty all water before testing or adjusting the air pressure.
Nice guys, informative video. But, I had to thumb down this video because they've omitted this crucial step.
@@highball7347 Threaded connections make the removal/reinstall fairly easy with blocking the valves in to isolate the take from pressure. Simply unscrew, and when the drip begins, just catch trapped water with a bucket placed underneath. After the drip stops, then remove.
@@jsly5473 every expansion tank I've seen has threaded connections.
And its not strapped , when the bladder blows , it fills entirely with water and gets heavy , the copper can hold it but it is Not correct , sharkbites , will leak many many many such cases , put a 3/4 brass tee on the heater and stack it on the vertical
Your reply should be pinned to the top of the comments.
Great video, no rambling and everything you need to know about thermal expansion tanks.
QUESTION: I have a Watts PRV by my water heater, which is set to 50 PSI and has a gauge set in the line to verify, but my full city pressure (on my garden hose) is 120 PSI - So, do I match the Expansion Tank to the 50 PSI that is provided by my PRV that is by my water heater or the full city pressure of 120? Thanks!
Love ye videos Is dat expansion tank ok installed sideways?
Great video guys. I really appreciate this information The explanation that I needed. You guys work well together, but a little feedback whether you want it or not Guy on the right slow down a little bit. Your guy on the left is doing great trust him he sounds great on camera, No need to interrupt and take over. I like hearing what he has to say. Let him finish. Other than that looking forward to more videos
Everything I've read including the instructions with my expansion tank state you have to TURN OFF WATER SUPPLY and drain pipes (turn on a downstairs faucet) before testing tank for pressure. Then put pressure in tank to match your water pressure (usually between 40 to 80 psi).
duckmanjoel Yes, technically you are correct. Best to put air into tank when the water pressure is turned off.
@@TheHandyguys technically you are incorrect on your video. 👎👎
Great channel! Does it matter WHERE in the cold water line you put the expansion tank? I am looking to install a commercial toilet with a sloan valve in a residential and am wanting enough pressure to help flush it with my 1/2 inch line.
Sloan valves are usually required to have 3/4.
Most new water heaters come with a built in check valve on inlet and outlet of water heater (floating marble) to prevent water back up . This act like a check valve . Trying to understand how an expansion tank can work if the check valve is up stream from the tank .
Exactly, if the expansion tank is "before" the check value (cold water inlet to the tank), the backflow is already blocked by the valve. So how would any back up go up to the tank? This might possibly explained why I have water hammer issue after installing a new tank brand "Rheem". And I searched the manufacturer PDF, the cold inlet does use a check valve. Then I read some other forums and some people suggest to replace the check value with normal pipe without any "ball" to block reverse flow. Now that's probably a more troubling re-install. Probably turn off main, drain all water, disconnect top, install new valve. blah blah.
Great video. I have a water pressure question. My TP valve has a long history of opening to release pressure (7+ yrs). This has happened with 3 difference boilers / TP valves that I've had in my house. When it opens it ranges from a slow drip, to a fast and ongoing drip that could add up to a few litres total, mostly overnight. I've replaced the regulator valve on my main water line last year and have turned down the pressure to a very soft flow, but issue still happens periodically, just a little less water. I do not have an expansion tank.
Since my TP valve leaks much more than than the few drops that you described, will an expansion tank fix this problem? Is there anything else you could think of? This is all made worse by the fact that my basement has a finished floor and no drain for when the tank leaks, making it a very messy flood when this happens. Thanks!
Expansion tanks are required for "closed" systems. "Closed" systems have a check valve or backflow preventor. Many older systems are open systems. Is your system closed or open?
I took my two yo exp. tank off to check my air pressure, because it is near the floor and I can not reach the valve. I support it from the bottom. Once I removed it, water continued to spray out of it for five minutes. The bladder was pressed up against the opening allowing water to squirt out in a fine mist. Here in Pittsburgh we need pressure reducing valves after our water meter so we don't have 160 psi coming in our houses from the curb. The Watt brand press. reducer is factory set at 50 psi. so that is the amount needed to charge the air side of the tank. The tank came with just 25 psi. TIP. If you have copper pipes put a dielectric union between the steel tank and your copper pipes or your ex tank will corrode much faster on the potable water side.
Hey guys great video and I'm not even sure I'm gonna get a response to this based on the age of the video. But I went ahead and replaced my faulty expansion tank and followed all the steps got our pressurized and it actually took care of our water hammer issue however it is doing a slow leak around the connection even after using plumbers tape and I really don't feel like I should tighten it anymore than it is and it still does it.
Is there a way to remove the newly installed one without ruining it and reapply even more tape for a better seal?
Unfortunately; the best way is to simply do the job again. However; you can possibly tighten it more but you need to know a couple of things before you try it. #1 what are the fittings made of ? if the tank is a steel fitting and looks heavy duty that's good. If the fitting you are connecting to is soldered onto copper pipe, you will need to have a wrench to hold it while you tighten the tank.
If your home already has hammer arrestors at all faucets; why would you need a pressure tank? I know water expands, but how much does volume actually increase when 40 gallons (Worst Case Scenario) is heated from 10°C to 50°C? you think more than the volume of air in hammer protectors?
Put a ball valve between the expansion tank and the cold water inlet to isolate it for testing without having to drop the entire system. As Delta T stated below you cannot test the air pressure at the schrader valve accurately with the static house pressure against the tank. Either disconnect the expansion tank, charge it and reinstall or isolate it, drain the pressure, charge then reenergize it. Otherwise you guys did ok.
Good idea.
Kill the breaker to the water heater to prevent possible dry firing of the elements also a good idea
A valve on the inlet of the expansion tank is superfluous. You still need to depressurize the inlet (water side) to the tank to properly check the air pressure. Granted, a valve in said location could make it easier to remove the tank, dump out the water then check the air pressure. But then you need to get more teflon tape or pipe dope and clean & reinstall the expansion tank. A lot of unnecessary work. Just shut-off water supply upstream of tank & heater, even if it's the main entrance valve. Open a cold & hot water faucet anywhere in the house to relieve the tank water pressure, the tank does NOT need to be drained, only depressurized.
Do you charge the tank first before install?
no vertical support on the horizontally installed expansion tank?
Why doesn't the pressure relief valve release the excess press?
I have well water and don't know if I have a back. flow preventor, I do have a bladder on the pipe coming from the well (to reduce cycling the pump) so can water escape that way? either into the well or the well bladder?
So i was told to put in an exoansion tank to fix my water spike/ hammer issue. I have arrestors on every appliance and even miltiple on the bigger ones, installed as close to the appliance as possible. Anywho my regular pressure is 60 psi regulated via prv at city main. Well with all the arrestors my gauge still hits levels of 130 psi according to the dial with the floating needle that reads highest pressures.. never seen it spike before but everytime i reset it Next time I look its back at 130 or around. So would i need to have an expansion tank set at 60 or 130? I would think 130 would just push everything out and only be effective during those spikes which is dumb to do. But with 60 than the spikes in my opinion would still hit high pressures.. only 60 pounds of cushion which it already has.. dunno Just waiting for a pipe to blow..
there is another video that shows we should shut off the cold water inlet to the heater, open the hot water and let the water pressure drop to 0 (little or no water coming out of the hot water outlet) before measuring the expansion tank air pressure. In this video, they just recommended keeping one hot water outlet open while pressurizing the tank. I wonder which approach is correct ?
We have really hard water, we have a water softener but the water tank still gets massive ‘furring’, what is the correct way to turn the tank into a closed system so I can pump (and drain) some decalification solution as I do in my radiators
I have an expansion tank. It was charged to 60psi to match my water pressure, while sitting on floor. I happen to have a pressure gauge installed on my cold water line right after my meter, and I noticed that after significant amount of hot water usage (ie when water heater is firing), that my system pressure goes up to around 130psi! I thought that's what the expansion tank was suppose to prevent. Any thing I should check or do?
So water comes out of my tank. Before i replace it, should i try to pump it up with air first?
Nice job fellas !
Good dialogue and very informative
Was planning to test ours with no water pressure. Also considered opening faucet and pumping it up if little pressure.
vERY HELPFUL VIDEO. THANK YOU VER MUCH VERY GOOD JOB GUYS. HAVE A HAPPY HOLIDAYS
I think I have a noise as a result of the expansion tank being under pressurized. I bought a new one. The old one had well over 140 psi and a lot of filthy water in it. I put the new one on and the noise I had quit. Now 4 days later I get a siren humming sound. Any ideas?
I have a video of the sound and the water heater in the mud room. Not sure what to do. Maybe just add it as a new video. Thanks.
the air-pressure in the expansion tank and the water pressure without depressurizing the pipes are identical. Does this mean i am in good shape ? one concern i have is about the quantity of air in the expansion tank.
Why when i set the water temperature to 180 degrees my Hydronic boiler goes past 30 psi for a two family house.Should I change the expansion tank from Ex30 to a Ex60 expansion tank.
I agree with most of this. You don't need a gauge to see if the bladder has leaked. If you add air to the bladder, you should shut off the water to the tank and relieve the pressure at a faucet. I don't think you should add the same pressure as your service pressure as he suggested. That would defeat it's ability to expand. The idea is to allow the water side to expand toward the side of lower pressure (the air side).
+bernie10315 Thanks for checking in. I thought you added about same air pressure as water pressure so that the bladder remains neutral during normal periods. It is only when the pressure begins to raise (from being heated) that it expands into the bladder as the water pressure then is higher than the air pressure.
If both sides are the same, expansion has nowhere to go. The bladder actually holds the service pressure. If service side pressure increases, it actually pushes the bladder out like a balloon. The more it pushes out the higher the air side goes, approaching same pressure. The charge pressure is there to keep the bladder from popping like a balloon.
I have 2 heaters and expansion tank for each. one has pressure 55 psi and other has 75 psi. system pressure is 60 psi. Recently I am getting warm water from cold faucet. I changed tub cartridge but still getting warm water. What can be the issue? Faulty heat trap?
Great Video guys!.... I was at my parents house and decided to test their pressure release valve on the water heater. After the test, the valve started to leak, it didn't leak before the test. i have never seen the separate tank like you explained. I was going to just change the pressure release valve but now I will do your test. Any advice? Again, great video!!!
the good news is that it is easy to replace the pressure release valve. Installing a new tank on a system that does not already have one is a whole other story.
All the installation info I've seen shows the tanks being installed vertically. Yours is the only one I've seen in the horizontal position. Won't that effect the operation?
***** it won't effect operation but it probably should be supported better.
Hate to disagree, Handyguy. While it is true, a horizontal installation will not affect the operation of the expansion tank (when the tank is working properly) it will likely result in a misdiagnosis by the folks watching your video. The best installation position for the tank is "Vertical" with the adjoining water pipe located above the tank. If you will view the "failed tank" shown in your video (@ 3:54) the Air Valve is below the level of the tank's threaded connection to the water pipe. Thus, when the air valve is depressed, water escapes from the valve, and it is obvious that the bladder is ruptured. However, bear with me for a moment, when I say that the installed position of the Air Valve is random at best, for if the installer had given the wrench another half turn, the air valve would be below the tank's inlet connection. The significance of this becomes clear, when one pictures the effect of a ruptured bladder in a failed tank. The air pressure that was previously contained in the bladder is released into the "water side" of the tank, where it fills the upper interior half of the tank, and any additional air volume escapes through the threaded fitting and into the plumbing system. Here's where the problem begins: Placing a pressure gauge on a "ruptured" tank's valve will read the correct pressure (water supply pressure) and air will escape when the valve is depressed... if the valve is "Above" the Inlet Fitting. Conversely, depressing the valve will result in a stream of water... if the valve is "Below" the tank's Inlet Fitting. Since your videos are intended to educate the layman viewers, who may not be experienced with Expansion Tanks, you may see how a DIY viewer could check a failed tank and deem it to be good, based on the random position of the Air Valve when it was installed.
I think it would serve your viewers better, if you were to recommend the vertical installation of expansion tanks, when possible, and if a horizontal installation must be made; to take care to position the Air Valve in the lower position. Additionally, it would avoid headaches, frustration, and perhaps even unnecessary parts replacement, by at-home DIYers, to suggest removing the Air valve itself, to test for water intrusion, as it would allow for any trapped air to be expelled, followed by water from the system. The air valves are less than a dollar at any hardware store, or tire shop, and might as well be replaced when evaluating the expansion tank.
Thanks for your videos!
Where is the check valve that decides if it is a closed or open system. Is pressure valve considered check valve?
Damn. Just drained my water heater due to muddy looking supply from the city maintenancing fire hydrants and I figured I'd drain that tank. Read afterwards it's pre charged. I'm just glad no one's saying nor the label says nitrogen. I can do that but not tonight. And finding a pressure gauge in my garage will probably suck.
Yesterday, I replaced a 40gal hot water tank in my home. I saw your video when I was done and decided to check the air pressure in my expansion tank and found that the bladder had failed. Today, I changed the expansion tank. Before I installed it, I checked the water pressure coming into the house and found it to be 70psi. I pre charged the expansion tank to 70psi, as you suggested, and installed the tank. When I was done, I turned the main water back on and ran a few faucets to remove all the air from the lines. Now, my "hot water" pressure is very low. the cold seems the same as it was before the work I did but the hot seems like half the pressure is gone. Any ideas why? I installed everything identical to what was previously installed so I can't figure out what the problem is. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thank you in advance for all your help.
Stitch Boucher You should probably have the valve that feeds cold water to the water heater checked, if it is an old gate valve it may be stuck partially closed.
Stitch Boucher Go to Lowes or Home depot and buy a pressure gage that screws onto the drain of your water heater. I bet the pressure is 70 psi. My guess is that you placed a restriction somewhere in your hot line when you installed the new water tank. Look for stuck valves, and any restrictions. But first, check the pressure at the water heater using the gage to be sure nothing weird is happening.
If you read the instruction from the manufacturer on MOST expansion tanks, it clearly states that you should not check air pressure, nor add air to the tank while its connected to the water system. You must shut the water off to the system drain down any pressurized water and remove the tank. THEN check the pressure. If the bladder has lost its air pressure, the air valve (or bladder) is worn out and it's time for a new expansion tank. These are not tires.
Pathmaker Plumbing Thats a lot of trouble when you simply do not have any pressure in your tank. Easy to add some pressure so you don't have water shooting out your T&P valve. It also is an easy way to make sure it has not failed outright with water coming out. But you are correct as far as getting proper pressure in the tank...water should be off and drained.
Water line makes noise like water hammer but only when I turn water on
Lived in house for 13 years and always made this sound
Replaced frozen/broken backflow device and water regulator shortly after moving in
Makes no difference which temperature I use
House PSI 40
Drained entire line from curbside and refilled with highest shower spigot open
Still have noise at all faucets and either temperature
Closed system with backflow device
Do I need water arrestor(s) or an expansion tank and where???
My expansion tank has a a very slow air leak at the Shrader valve. Do you know if the valve core can be replaced as is done on a tire valve?
I did replace the core. No problem. This tank is over 30 years old so it's probably a good idea to soap test the valve periodically.
I replaced mine about 5 years ago. I now have hot water coming out of the cold tap. Is this possibly the reason? When I get home, I'm going to check mine. I'll let you know.
I'm not a plumber, you should always check with one. However, do you have a back flow prevention valve on the system? They didn't use them back when. We just installed one. They're cheap and easy to do, and may be required by code today.
The pressure and integrity of my expansion tank are both fine. I don't know what a backflow prevention valve looks like. I'll look into it.
Handyguys. I have a 7yr old townhouse (all systems are 7yrs old by now) which has an expansion tank mounted on the cold inlet side just above the hot water heater. I have experienced no anomalies with the plumbing system all 7 years. About 1 month back, hot (I mean HOT) water started to come out of the cold taps; this occurs with all faucets at bathrooms and kitchen. The cold water will come out from the cold side after running the cold side faucet for about 5 min. Is this a manifestation of a failed or malfunctioning (incorrect pressure) of the expansion tank? Or is there something else more intriguing at work?
***** Sounds like something more intriguing at work.
Cold water pipes running in an attic can easily get to over 110 F.
What if you your cold water niple have a backflow built in?
Excess pressure still go to the expansion tank?
Do not attempt to adjust the tank pre-charge once installed on
the system and under the system pressure. The expansion tank
should be pre-charged to the incoming system water pressure
but must not exceed 80 psi. Failure to properly adjust the precharge
will shorten the life of the product.
how does the tank hold its' charge if it is open and not connected to the line? i do not see any shut off valve at top of expansion tank
If you Dont completely drain the water pressure off of the expansion tank before you test the pressure on the expansion tank, then the tank pressure will read the same pressure as the water pressure. If there is 20 psi on the tank when there is no pressure on the potable connection and than add 50 psi water pressure, the bladder will move to equalize and compress the air pressure to 50 psi. You may think the pressure in the tank is fine when when the bladder may be almost maxed out.
Yes, what was said in the video appears to be incorrect and Robert is right. You have to remove all pressure from the tank before checking with the tire gauge. Some expansion tank installs have a separate shut off valve just for the tank which makes checking easy.
alan tolchinsky These guys are not professional plumbers.
I have an expansion tank that has failed, sprayed water all over my laundry room for idk how many hours. The tank is on the hot exit line instead of the cold in line. The unit is 3 years old and since the install we have had many other issues, pipes rattle, 2 faucets leak, and 1 tub faucet leak. Are these also problems from the tank?
Brandon O'Neal no..! The're from the bootleg'n hack that installed the system... It "pays" to hire a real Pro....!
My question: to what pressure do I set my new expansion tank? It came @40 psi.
I have a city water system. I have a water stove that is plumbed so flow goes CITY/WATER STOVE/WATER HEATER. The water stove can be bypassed. There was no expansion tank on the system before installing the water stove. The bypass to the water stove is normally closed.
There is a back flow preventer (check valve) en route to the water stove. I have an expansion tank right after that, in my house water heater enclosure. It failed.
My new expansion tank, out of the box, was checked to be at the factory 40 psi. The directions say to "adjust before installing." I've not yet installed. I've been told that the tank should be set 2 psi below "the lowest system pressure."
The pressure at my hose bib outside is 80 psi with zero flow. I opened 2 sinks, a shower, and started filling my washing machine. The pressure dropped to 32 psi. There is a pressure regulator coming in to the house. I don't know the pressure on the water heater.
Q: Do I adjust, and if so, to what pressure?
Q: When I check periodically (and there is only air in the tank), do I check with the water off and vented through an upstairs sink? And do I change the pressure on the tank as needed?
Are you running Biothermal AC/Heat?
The tank on my system has a label on it stating 15 lbs. Water pressure ranges from 40/60 on a pressure switch. So disregard the label and put between 40/60 lbs of air pressure ? I have a well if that makes any difference..
I have pipe hammering. A plumber replaced my expansion tank, and this seemed to fix it for a couple months, but now they are banging again. Did the plumber just get some air in the pipes, and as the air worked it's way out the banging started again, or will an expansion tank fix pipe hammering? The hammering appears to be from really long pipes going up to a top floor washing machine. Is there a better way to fix this water hammering.
Find the cause, such as a quick closing valve. Example: Such as a washing machines solenoid valves that control the incoming water.
Loosely supported pipes will typically amplify the effect of water hammering, also.
I didn't read all the comments so forgive me if someone has already mention what you guys forgot to mention. Assuming of course you know. I'm pretty sure the pro on the left new.
If by chance you had say half of the air you should have in that tank when testing it, it would still read the water pressure.
As when you fill the system, there can't be any pressure from the water, as the pro mentioned about closing the valve entering the water heater and opening a hot water valve elsewhere, to relieve the pressure.(Of course the higher the opened faucet the higher the pressure you still have on the water side.1 psi = 2.31 feet of water.)
The reason for this is to expand that bladder to its maximum size at the required pressure. This allows maximum volume for expansion when it happens.
I hope I explained it properly.
Just remember that you can have good pressure with very little volume of air. But the larger volume is a must to take up the expanding water.
You guys just saved me about $700
Does it matter where you check the water pressure? Closest to the meter?
I understand that the water as it pressurizes will try to feed back to its primary inlet. This is why an expansion tank is necessary for the Cold water side, of the water heater's inlet . My question is, can pressure also go towards the appliances, such as dishwasher sinks and washer. I ask this because every once in awhile my dishwasher and washer will release about a cupful of water. It would have to be the hot water that's building up the pressure because there is no cold water that runs to the dishwasher, and from time to time even the faucet in my kitchen , which is spring based sprays several drops of water into the sink. I am worried about the PEX, because I have seen slippage. Any ideas of what I can put in to take the pressure when all of the water sources are off. There is an expansion tank which is only about a year old. There is no water being released from the pressure release valve on the side of the water heater. Any ideas?
i know just enough to be dangerous so double check this. If you have one handle faucets it is possible for the pressure to bleed over into cold side system.
What's the link to the replacement Brian did that you guys talked about at the end of the video. I went on your channel and couldn't find it. Thanks.
sorry sent link to same vid. Actually I am not sure what video you are referring to. I think we were just talking about Brian's replacement and then showed some video from that while we were talking. You see the leaking tank being removed towards end of video.
great vids, but that guy on the right needs to let the other guy finish when hes talking, thanks for posting :)
Was thinking the same thing
Was thinking the same thing
Maybe a little less coffee..?
Wonderful video thanks so much for putting this out there! Very helpful
what size tank needed for a 50 gallon water heater?
There are potable and non-potable versions of the expansion tank available. Just replaced mine in my basement in-floor heat/hot water system. With it being a closed loop and hot water not being used for household use I saved over $30 installing the non-potable version.
Thanks for the info.
Great video! Very helpful! Thanks for sharing
That vent pipe for gas exhaust looks greater than 60 degrees from the vertical. Wonder what the total developed lenth is.
My psi read 120 on my outside faucet. Is that normal? Seems high to me
Super helpful!! Thanks for posting guys.
could a failed expansion tank cause a slight drop in water pressure?
Thanks. Can you show a video or explain how to safely fill air in the expansion tank?
good idea. It is no more difficult then filling a bike tire. You can use an air compressor or a bike pump if you can get the hose to reach. I just used the compressor tank/hose from my pneumatic nailer but this is really overkill.
Shouldn’t we add air to the tank “before” installing?
Add air to correct pressure prior to installation of the exp. tank
All have to do is read the manufacture recommendation installation!
In the UK only registered men are allowed to work on unvented cylinders. They have more controls being safer. USA take note. The pressure vessel should be at east 10% of the cylinder volume - that expansion vessel looks too small. Best have it on the cold feed where it is cooler.
Does a tankless water heater need one ?
Should you not be bracing that expansion tank? Everything i have read clearly states that if you mount it horizontally off a vertical pipe you need to properly support it. You are putting lots of stress on that T valve, especially if the tank fails. Thanks.
Yes, brace it.
If I were checking the charge on the water expansion tank bladder and got water out of it ... I would think the bladder was ruptured and the unit i in need of replacement.
If this is correct, please explain to me how this bladder is good if water comes out of the air fitting?
you are correct. I assume if water is coming out then the bladder has failed.
look at the start of this video ... perfect example of a bad expansion tank bladder.
Why do they call it an expansion tank when in industrial applications it is called an Accumulator?
Hello, what happen if installing expansion tank upstream of full open valve to water heater ? thanks
I cant seem to get mine to accept additional air with my bicycle pump. What am I doing wrong?
best explanation i have seen.
If my water pressure 3-5 bar , wat vessel pressure have to be?
Question...What if the tank is mounted AFTER the street pressure reducer? I have to look at mine but am thinking such is my case. I wouldn't want to fill my tank to 50lbs then would I?
Derek. The Pressure reducer is before the supply from city enters into your house.
Usually is by the main shut off . Water heater is installed downstream from pressure reducer. Yes you are right. If reduced pressure is 40 PSI then Expansion tank air pressure must equalize that.
yes I can I will check it again in an hour or so butt don't think it is holding air looked up on line they arenot that expensive if that is the case thank you
useful information!. This video helped fixing my tank.
Shivaprasad Reddy Glad we were able to help
Oh you can use the info to fix your airplane too.
My main water line reads 60 psi, I turned off the cold water line to the water heater tank and opened the faucet. I am getting 0 psi on the expansion tank. If I add air to it , it keeps dropping to zero. When i close the faucet and turn on the water to the water heater tank, the pressure on the expansion tank gets to 53 psi. Is this normal? There is no water or leak on the expansion tank.
I notice the valve to my water expansion tank was off for some reason, can I just turn it back on ?
Great video guys thanks for the info
my expansion tank leaked and made a huge mess. alot of water damage. the tank needed to be replaced. how can i avoid another leak. the last tank was only a year and a half old.
I just install my pressure tank to my water heater but I install the tee on top of the pressure tank and one end to the valve and other to water heater. did I install it wrong or just wasted copper? I notice they put the tee on the water valve and one hose to the tank. just like yours but you Installed it sideways and wasted no copper. but mine is upward and had to send copper line back and forth. any suggestions 🤔 anyone??
So being on a well with a pump in a 80 year old home I dont need that tank?...I keep losing water heaters about ever 10 years. Mine just barfed yesterday and the guy....not seeing the home yet...was talking about adding one.