Good video & explanation. I install my expansion tanks with a ballcock first , dielectric union, than the tank and if possible I try to get this up in the floor joist above the water heater ( basement installations). By doing it this way it does several things #1 if the expansion tank fails you can replace it in about 10 minutes without turning the water off #2 it makes the replacement of the water heater very easy without the expansion tank being in the way it gives the expansion tank cathodic protection. I hope some of this information helps and you all stay safe out there👍.
That is a great way to do it as well. Here in Florida we have most of our heaters on the same floor as the house, single stories mostly around here, so there is not much flow back without the shut off, but we do have those on any multiple floor homes or condos. We don't usually use the dialectic unions as the water is so hard down here it destroys everything in short order. Thank you for the input.
So I am going to guess here about the "TPR " valve being the T&P valve possibly. That valve is made to protect the heater from damage when it either overheats or over pressurizes but it is not made to buffer the expansion of water in the system due to heating the water. If you are meaning a Pressure Relief Valve the it does do a similar thing as the expansion tank, but unless it is installed near the water heater itself then it is allowing extra pressure to act on the tank before it is kicking off when it is installed farther away from the heater.
I am so sorry if I missed that but you always want to put them on the cold side of the tank. Now I can only tell you what I have heard from the manufacture's rep and that is that it is not really designed to handle hot water going into it or flowing past its inlet port. Most importantly the instructions tell you to install it on the cold side, and we want to always have warranty from the maker so stick with what they tell you to do. I hope that helps you!
yes, I'd use 2 gallon of expansion for each water heater. so you would need an 8 gallon unit located on the coldwater input supply that leads to the water heaters. I'm assuming that they are 40 gallon gas water heaters
That is great question. I would say that I have never seen on that was wrapped in insulation inside of the garage but I always recommend following the manufacturers directions.
In your professional opinion does it matter if the schrader valve is at the top or at the bottom of the expansion tank when it it oriented onto the water heater system? Or do manufacturers tell you they have a particular orientation for their tanks in their respective installation instructions? Thanks for any feedback.
Each manufacturer has specifications for their units. Some do allow for multiple orientations of the tank, some only allow for the valve and bladder to be at the top of the installation. Make sure to consult your directions before installing.
Good video. I used a Holdrite expansion tank bracket to mount my expansion tank. Is there a minimum/maximum distance that the expansion tank should be mounted in? And can the expansion tank be mounted in any orientation? Thanks Ron
The expansion tanks that we use state a minimum of 18” from the inlet. In this video it’s obviously less. I’m curious also as our tanks state the pressure needs to be set 2 psi lower than incoming water pressure.
Great idea to use that bracket to hold it to the wall. Always check the manufacturer's directions to see what they state is recommended. Most of the tanks are supposed to be mounted vertically either with the connection point on the top or bottom.
That is a great question! So the BEST place is right next to the water heater on the cold side of the heater. That does not mean you cannot put it on a cold line in another area of the piping but it is most effective at the water heater. The final point on that is to make sure it is after any check valve or backflow device that is on the whole system.
so I have a few question I have a home with a 40 gallon tank and I want to go down to a 30 gal is that ok ? Also the expansion tank how long do they last ? And which is a better tank rheem or Aso ??
We normally feel that about 3 years is all that we can expect in Florida for an expansion tank. Tank capacity is about usage, if you only need 30 gallons that would be fine but the lowest price for a water heater is normally a 40 gallon model as it is the most sold model out there and as such the manufacturers make the most of those and that keeps their price the lowest of all the tanks out there. So I would actually say to think twice about going down a size.
You actually need to verify that with the manufacturer of the water heater. We use a 4.8 gallon or 18 liter expansion tank on anything bigger than a 50 gallon water heater.
So you ideally want those tanks set to match your system pressure. The 55psi one is closer to the right pressure than the 75psi one. My biggest question to you is do you have a well system for your house or is it municipal water coming to your home? If the water is coming from a well then it has a pump and most of the systems that have a well on them are going to have a pressure swing of about 20psi when they are used. If that is the case let me know and we can help out.
We don't recommend trying to set or adjust the pressure while on the water heater. It needs to have zero pressure pushing against the bladder to be set correctly.
@@plumbingexpress6801 The next time the water goes off in my neighborhood I will try to remember this and at that time I will open a faucet and then check the expansion tank pressure. A while back I installed a pressure regulator near the meter to reduce the pressure from over 100 psi down to 60 psi, but never thought about the expansion tank. Thanks. Wouldn't that work?
The tanks that I have seen and talked with the manufacturers about do not want the hot water to be directly inline with the expansion tank. They would like to see them on the cold side only.
So, if your well system uses expansion tanks to supply pressure rather than a booster pump from a storage tank, you don't need a water heater expansion tank. your large well pump expansion units work as a pressure relief as well as storage. Expansion tanks for city water sources should be used on the cold water supply after the pressure control/backflow valve. the expansion tank does not need to be on top of your water heater. the goal of the expansion tank is to prevent extremely high pressure build up in your city connected water heater. At night water pressures in city water systems can grow by as much 20% plus your water heater hot water "expansion" can cause plumbing problems for your 80psi rated tank. pipes are rated at 200 psi. most city water supplies are a min of 60psi to 100psi. the average being 80psi. The expansion tank prevents the water pressure from going over the water heater rated 80 psi.
@@rss608 Hello Roy nice video. I have an oil fired hot water base board heating system with a coil built in for my domestic hot water. I just purchased a new hybrid hot water heater. What I've just learned is that people with a well (my source) may have a softener installed which could possibly have a check valve built in. In this case they should consider an expansion tank.
@@williamcavanaugh4613 I've never seen a water softener that has a check valve in the water pressure line. That said most water softeners do have check valves in the wash/rinse valve but they have nothing to do with the fresh water flow through the softener/media.
To the credit of several others who have posted, the tank you are talking about is slightly different overall as it is there to help with the pressure that is created from the well pump and to allow the pump to cycle less times due to the pressure cushion created by the expansion tank.
That is a question that I do not feel like I am qualified to answer as we do not do any radiant heat in our area. Maybe someone else can help with that one.
You will need to be able to add in a leg off of the cold side that allows you to securely mount the expansion tank. It can become very heavy when it gets used. You don't have to drain the tank but it would be a good opportunity to do that when you are working on the heater and the pressure is turned off.
I disagree with you when you imply (actually *say* at 8:45) that you only need to install an expansion tank if there is room. The amount of space available does not change the physics of the system. You may *choose* not to install a tank when there is not enough room, but if the system needs an expansion tank (e.g. closed system) it needs an expansion tank. The lack of space doesn't change that.
I appreciate your candor on this Derby Dad. I agree with you on the fact it should be a code issue to have the expansion tank installed as it is the best source of being able to properly negate the effects of the thermal expansion on the system. We unfortunately do not have that built into our code here in Florida so we have to protect against thermal expansion but that could be by using an expansion tank or a pressure relief valve. I do not like having to put in the PRV over the expansion tank but we have condominiums that have an air handler sitting right on top of the water heater and there is no space to install one, barely enough space to install the PRV that we do put in. I also liked that you hit on that great point of a closed system. Very important to know what type of system you are installing the water heater into and how to properly protect it. Thank you for watching and the feedback.
I am not sure what you mean by compression tank. Are you perhaps meaning a pressure tank? That is something that would be connected into a pumped water system. So you might have a well and then you could have a pressure tank. Or do you possibly mean a water heater tank in your attic? Let me know and I can try and help you.
@@plumbingexpress6801 A compression tank is a steel tank that does not have a bladder. There is nothing seperating the water and air, therefore, it must by mounted well above the boiler. Thy are about the size of a cola dispense can. I ended up plumbing in an expansion tank.
Not sure that I understand your question Hildeberto. The hot and cold parts of the water heater have metal nipples that contain heat checks in them to stop hot water from seeping out of the heater when it is in a static setting.
Not quite sure about that question but let me take a shot at an answer. This size expansion tank is only good for 1 water heater. If you have 2 tanks then you are going to need to use 1 tank for each water heater.
I am so sorry for the ipad quality audio. That was one of our first videos and we did not do a good job of making sure that the audio quality was really good. We are looking to do an update of that video sometime soon and will make sure that it has better audio. Thanks again for the input.
Plumbing Express That’s true, some do ok it, but it still traps air upside down (or sideways) reducing volume which will cause the tank to fail prematurely, which is good if you want to sell more tanks on call backs. These things have a 1 year warranty typically and if installed sideways/upside down will last a couple years. Orient them bladder side down and they last longer (mines 8 years old) than a couple years. It’s the w/h your protecting from expansion damage and it can also help with water hammer. People often don’t realize when they fail unless they are the source of the leak. I always ring the tank and check for water at the schraeder when I see em.
Why if there is no easy place to mount the tank it’s alright to leave it out of the system? This makes no sense if their that important you must find a suitable location for it “RIGHT” WTF!
It is a rock and hard place situation for us on that. We have many areas here in Florida where the initial installation does not allow for any room to install an expansion tank. The only place to mount it would be exposed in a room adjacent to the water heater. In those situations we put in a pressure relief valve to vent off the excess pressure into a drain. There are a lot of times where we can barely fit the PRV into the tiny space we are given. Thank you for watching and for commenting.
Yes, there are several different ways to mount the tanks that they manufacturer recommends. Vertical is the preferred method and sticker up or sticker down is okay with them as long as it is supported and air pressure is set correctly upon installation.
I am sorry about that Lili. We have upgraded our video editing and now can punch up the sound if we have low spots in the videos that we shoot for our customers. Please watch some of our newer videos and see how those are for you. Thank you for watching!
The water company ruined my 2 year old water heater buy installing a new meter with a check valve in it And not telling me. It bent the pipe on top of the tank and broke the solder connection.
Thank you for watching and we have improved both our microphones we use also our video editor to produce better sound in the videos we do. Please check out some of our new videos to see how we have improved.
Sorry you did not like it. This video is mostly about why we put them in and where we put them in on the system. The overall installation is achieved by screwing the tank onto a female adaptor of the correct size. If that is what you needed help with then please do not attempt to install this yourself.
Good video & explanation. I install my expansion tanks with a ballcock first , dielectric union, than the tank and if possible I try to get this up in the floor joist above the water heater ( basement installations). By doing it this way it does several things #1 if the expansion tank fails you can replace it in about 10 minutes without turning the water off #2 it makes the replacement of the water heater very easy without the expansion tank being in the way it gives the expansion tank cathodic protection.
I hope some of this information helps and you all stay safe out there👍.
That is a great way to do it as well. Here in Florida we have most of our heaters on the same floor as the house, single stories mostly around here, so there is not much flow back without the shut off, but we do have those on any multiple floor homes or condos. We don't usually use the dialectic unions as the water is so hard down here it destroys everything in short order. Thank you for the input.
Excellent! Just added an expansion tank with my new gas water heater. Thank you!
You are very welcome! Make certain you are maintaining it annually.
Very good video have watched a few best one I think so far.
Why thank you, glad we could Help. Make sure to check out a few of our other videos or subscribe to see when we release more new content.
Well done video! Lots of important info. Thanks -Glen
Thanks Glen! Glad that you found it informative.
thanks - this was a big help🙏🙏
You are welcome Dirk.
Why do i need an expansion tank when i have a TPR valve?
So your TPR DOESNT start to leak....it's not meant to cycle...a expansion tank is...
So I am going to guess here about the "TPR " valve being the T&P valve possibly. That valve is made to protect the heater from damage when it either overheats or over pressurizes but it is not made to buffer the expansion of water in the system due to heating the water. If you are meaning a Pressure Relief Valve the it does do a similar thing as the expansion tank, but unless it is installed near the water heater itself then it is allowing extra pressure to act on the tank before it is kicking off when it is installed farther away from the heater.
That is a great point for his question. Thank for helping respond to his question.
Nice explanation but you didn't say whether you install the expansion tank on the hot water or cold water side of the water heater.
I am so sorry if I missed that but you always want to put them on the cold side of the tank. Now I can only tell you what I have heard from the manufacture's rep and that is that it is not really designed to handle hot water going into it or flowing past its inlet port. Most importantly the instructions tell you to install it on the cold side, and we want to always have warranty from the maker so stick with what they tell you to do. I hope that helps you!
I have an apartment building with 4 tanks- no room over head. Could I install one big expansion tank on the feed line before all of the tanks?
yes, I'd use 2 gallon of expansion for each water heater. so you would need an 8 gallon unit located on the coldwater input supply that leads to the water heaters. I'm assuming that they are 40 gallon gas water heaters
I feel like we need more information to really help you with that one.
Does the expansion tank (in the garage) need to be wrapped in insulation and plastic or no? Medium to mild Temps in NC.
That is great question. I would say that I have never seen on that was wrapped in insulation inside of the garage but I always recommend following the manufacturers directions.
Great info, thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
In your professional opinion does it matter if the schrader valve is at the top or at the bottom of the expansion tank when it it oriented onto the water heater system? Or do manufacturers tell you they have a particular orientation for their tanks in their respective installation instructions? Thanks for any feedback.
Each manufacturer has specifications for their units. Some do allow for multiple orientations of the tank, some only allow for the valve and bladder to be at the top of the installation. Make sure to consult your directions before installing.
Good video. I used a Holdrite expansion tank bracket to mount my expansion tank. Is there a minimum/maximum distance that the expansion tank should be mounted in? And can the expansion tank be mounted in any orientation?
Thanks
Ron
The expansion tanks that we use state a minimum of 18” from the inlet. In this video it’s obviously less. I’m curious also as our tanks state the pressure needs to be set 2 psi lower than incoming water pressure.
Great idea to use that bracket to hold it to the wall. Always check the manufacturer's directions to see what they state is recommended. Most of the tanks are supposed to be mounted vertically either with the connection point on the top or bottom.
I was told the tank needs to be vertical and water nipple of expansion tank to point up (not down - as shown)
Great question Rohit. Most of the manufacturers out there allow for them to be installed either connection up or down as long as vertical.
You missed one point, Does this tank have to be installed right by the tank or can it be located anywhere on the cold side of the line?
That is a great question! So the BEST place is right next to the water heater on the cold side of the heater. That does not mean you cannot put it on a cold line in another area of the piping but it is most effective at the water heater. The final point on that is to make sure it is after any check valve or backflow device that is on the whole system.
Thank you very much for replying to my comment. @@plumbingexpress6801
so I have a few question I have a home with a 40 gallon tank and I want to go down to a 30 gal is that ok ? Also the expansion tank how long do they last ? And which is a better tank rheem or Aso ??
We normally feel that about 3 years is all that we can expect in Florida for an expansion tank. Tank capacity is about usage, if you only need 30 gallons that would be fine but the lowest price for a water heater is normally a 40 gallon model as it is the most sold model out there and as such the manufacturers make the most of those and that keeps their price the lowest of all the tanks out there. So I would actually say to think twice about going down a size.
Great video.
Thanks! Glad that you appreciated it. Please let me know what are some other topics you would be interested in hearing more about.
So I need a 4 Gallon unit for a 70 Gallon Gas Water Heater?
You actually need to verify that with the manufacturer of the water heater. We use a 4.8 gallon or 18 liter expansion tank on anything bigger than a 50 gallon water heater.
I have 2 heaters and each has expansion tank on cold side. my system pressure is 60 psi. One has 55 psi and other has 75 psi. Is this acceptable? bad?
So you ideally want those tanks set to match your system pressure. The 55psi one is closer to the right pressure than the 75psi one. My biggest question to you is do you have a well system for your house or is it municipal water coming to your home? If the water is coming from a well then it has a pump and most of the systems that have a well on them are going to have a pressure swing of about 20psi when they are used. If that is the case let me know and we can help out.
After the tank is installed can the air pressure be checked and adjusted (without removing the expansion tank)?
We don't recommend trying to set or adjust the pressure while on the water heater. It needs to have zero pressure pushing against the bladder to be set correctly.
@@plumbingexpress6801 The next time the water goes off in my neighborhood I will try to remember this and at that time I will open a faucet and then check the expansion tank pressure. A while back I installed a pressure regulator near the meter to reduce the pressure from over 100 psi down to 60 psi, but never thought about the expansion tank. Thanks. Wouldn't that work?
Can you install it on the hot water side?
The internal bladder would not like that.
The tanks that I have seen and talked with the manufacturers about do not want the hot water to be directly inline with the expansion tank. They would like to see them on the cold side only.
Which side do the expansion tank go on?
So they are installed on the cold water side of the water heater.
I have seen water heaters with check valve balls in the nipples only permitting flow in one direction... Thus it would have to be on the hot side...
Any advice on replacing a tank that’s not on the water heater but is on the main water line coming in from my well?
So, if your well system uses expansion tanks to supply pressure rather than a booster pump from a storage tank, you don't need a water heater expansion tank. your large well pump expansion units work as a pressure relief as well as storage. Expansion tanks for city water sources should be used on the cold water supply after the pressure control/backflow valve. the expansion tank does not need to be on top of your water heater. the goal of the expansion tank is to prevent extremely high pressure build up in your city connected water heater. At night water pressures in city water systems can grow by as much 20% plus your water heater hot water "expansion" can cause plumbing problems for your 80psi rated tank. pipes are rated at 200 psi. most city water supplies are a min of 60psi to 100psi. the average being 80psi. The expansion tank prevents the water pressure from going over the water heater rated 80 psi.
@@rss608 Hello Roy nice video. I have an oil fired hot water base board heating system with a coil built in for my domestic hot water. I just purchased a new hybrid hot water heater. What I've just learned is that people with a well (my source) may have a softener installed which could possibly have a check valve built in. In this case they should consider an expansion tank.
@@williamcavanaugh4613 I've never seen a water softener that has a check valve in the water pressure line. That said most water softeners do have check valves in the wash/rinse valve but they have nothing to do with the fresh water flow through the softener/media.
To the credit of several others who have posted, the tank you are talking about is slightly different overall as it is there to help with the pressure that is created from the well pump and to allow the pump to cycle less times due to the pressure cushion created by the expansion tank.
Can a exp tank be installed below my radiant heat system for room purposes...
That is a question that I do not feel like I am qualified to answer as we do not do any radiant heat in our area. Maybe someone else can help with that one.
Do you need to drain the tank first ?
You will need to be able to add in a leg off of the cold side that allows you to securely mount the expansion tank. It can become very heavy when it gets used. You don't have to drain the tank but it would be a good opportunity to do that when you are working on the heater and the pressure is turned off.
@@plumbingexpress6801 thanks for the reply
I disagree with you when you imply (actually *say* at 8:45) that you only need to install an expansion tank if there is room. The amount of space available does not change the physics of the system. You may *choose* not to install a tank when there is not enough room, but if the system needs an expansion tank (e.g. closed system) it needs an expansion tank. The lack of space doesn't change that.
I appreciate your candor on this Derby Dad. I agree with you on the fact it should be a code issue to have the expansion tank installed as it is the best source of being able to properly negate the effects of the thermal expansion on the system. We unfortunately do not have that built into our code here in Florida so we have to protect against thermal expansion but that could be by using an expansion tank or a pressure relief valve. I do not like having to put in the PRV over the expansion tank but we have condominiums that have an air handler sitting right on top of the water heater and there is no space to install one, barely enough space to install the PRV that we do put in. I also liked that you hit on that great point of a closed system. Very important to know what type of system you are installing the water heater into and how to properly protect it. Thank you for watching and the feedback.
I have a compression tank above in the ceiling and it is done... Instead of cutting it all down, can I used an expansion tank instead ?
I am not sure what you mean by compression tank. Are you perhaps meaning a pressure tank? That is something that would be connected into a pumped water system. So you might have a well and then you could have a pressure tank. Or do you possibly mean a water heater tank in your attic? Let me know and I can try and help you.
@@plumbingexpress6801 A compression tank is a steel tank that does not have a bladder. There is nothing seperating the water and air, therefore, it must by mounted well above the boiler. Thy are about the size of a cola dispense can. I ended up plumbing in an expansion tank.
Wat happen to the pressure valve 0n the nipple of the cold water pipe of tank
Not sure that I understand your question Hildeberto. The hot and cold parts of the water heater have metal nipples that contain heat checks in them to stop hot water from seeping out of the heater when it is in a static setting.
Some hill Billy’s don’t know what an adjustable wrench is. 🤣😂😅😇
So true :)
Is that ok for 2 water tanks 1 n 2 floor
Not quite sure about that question but let me take a shot at an answer. This size expansion tank is only good for 1 water heater. If you have 2 tanks then you are going to need to use 1 tank for each water heater.
Admittedly I don't hear as good as I used to. The audio volume is very poor, other points of instruction are good
I am so sorry for the ipad quality audio. That was one of our first videos and we did not do a good job of making sure that the audio quality was really good. We are looking to do an update of that video sometime soon and will make sure that it has better audio. Thanks again for the input.
I’ve yet to see one video on w/h expansion tanks that shows them properly oriented
Yep every video they install upside down 🤦
Aaron Seward
Yep, they just don’t understand bladder tanks. A few manufactures ok it, but it’s still dumb.
It can be easier to mount when the bladder is on the bottom but you have to know what the manufacturer does and does not allow.
Plumbing Express
That’s true, some do ok it, but it still traps air upside down (or sideways) reducing volume which will cause the tank to fail prematurely, which is good if you want to sell more tanks on call backs. These things have a 1 year warranty typically and if installed sideways/upside down will last a couple years. Orient them bladder side down and they last longer (mines 8 years old) than a couple years. It’s the w/h your protecting from expansion damage and it can also help with water hammer. People often don’t realize when they fail unless they are the source of the leak.
I always ring the tank and check for water at the schraeder when I see em.
Manufacturer states to install a min 18 inches away from the water heater.
some say you should not install it upside down, others say it doesnt matter.... i wish i knew the truth
Never install up side down always in stall up right it says it in the instructions
Just read the instructions. Manufacturers have their preference
Each manufacturer has their own specifics. Make sure to consult their installation manual.
Why if there is no easy place to mount the tank it’s alright to leave it out of the system? This makes no sense if their that important you must find a suitable location for it “RIGHT” WTF!
It is a rock and hard place situation for us on that. We have many areas here in Florida where the initial installation does not allow for any room to install an expansion tank. The only place to mount it would be exposed in a room adjacent to the water heater. In those situations we put in a pressure relief valve to vent off the excess pressure into a drain. There are a lot of times where we can barely fit the PRV into the tiny space we are given. Thank you for watching and for commenting.
Looks like you got it upside down. There's a reason why the manufacturers put the label on the way they did.😮😊
What are you talking about? It only goes on one way.
@@mikealvord55 lable is upside-down, water line should be on top, not from bottom.
@@vinjens1791you’re not a plumber are you
Yes, there are several different ways to mount the tanks that they manufacturer recommends. Vertical is the preferred method and sticker up or sticker down is okay with them as long as it is supported and air pressure is set correctly upon installation.
The audio is so low. Good info but cannot get all of what you are saying,
I am sorry about that Lili. We have upgraded our video editing and now can punch up the sound if we have low spots in the videos that we shoot for our customers. Please watch some of our newer videos and see how those are for you. Thank you for watching!
The water company ruined my 2 year old water heater buy installing a new meter with a check valve in it
And not telling me. It bent the pipe on top of the tank and broke the solder connection.
I am sorry to hear that. I would be interested to hear more about that issue.
@@plumbingexpress6801 I put a new hot water tank and expansion tank in 10 years ago and haven’t had a problem since.
Audio is no good.
Thank you for watching and we have improved both our microphones we use also our video editor to produce better sound in the videos we do. Please check out some of our new videos to see how we have improved.
Video is more talk and instruction than actual install thumbs down
Sorry you did not like it. This video is mostly about why we put them in and where we put them in on the system. The overall installation is achieved by screwing the tank onto a female adaptor of the correct size. If that is what you needed help with then please do not attempt to install this yourself.
@@plumbingexpress6801 you're funny