A very good video with extremely rare and very useful information but it's a real shame it's in 360p (and occasionally it looks even worse than 144p!) which loses a lot of the details especially on the damaged components and screen graphics. You're giving us real good stuff so I would strongly advise you to re-do this video with a better camera.
Floating pin clearance is tricky on vw aircooled. To tight on the piston and in cold start its putting strain on rod bushing. Too loose and its sloppy after warmed up. Too tight you get to rebush the rods. Better free float in piston lightly oiled. That's my take on it. Good video for understanding rod loading. Thanks.
Like different rods my thoughts turn to bearings. With high-silicone content aluminum found in Tri-Metal bearings now the rage, I like the steel shell Bi-Metal babbitt last longer. To me this helps the rod without internal deformation before the rod see it. In other words, spreading the load evenly from the crank into the bearing, but equally transferring the load into the rod. I feel this actually make the rod last longer before distortion occurs causing rod failure. Thoughts? This discussion came up a few time with mostly V8 engine builders.
I think you are getting into babbitt thickness and how that distributes load as opposed to deforming , tri-metal have a layer of copper in there so you can only go so thick on your steel shell where with bi-metal you can run a thicker shell and still maintain a reasonable amount of babbit. King bearings make thick steel shell bi-metal bearings but you give up conformability and embeddability in exchange for increased load carrying capacity. What series of bi-metal bearing have you been using ?
Nice presentation. I can't quite understand why there is loading around the studs on the power stroke. I would have thought the power stroke would have the most loading around the top third of the rod journal. I understand the bolt flange area (studs specifically) to have the highest forces on the intake stroke. Does the mating area experience high loads due to stretching of the bolts and then slamming closed on the power stroke?
So that why my #4 connecting rod on my N/A engine disintegrated when I put a turbocharger on it, it lasted 5 days at 6-8 psi and was fun as hell until it blew up
I have a 212cc predator go kart engine.. with a stage 1 kit (bigger air intake, bigger jet, and straight pipe exhaust) with the governor bypassed.. rode it hard for the last 6 months and it finally blew up the other day..it blow a hole through the block..I looked down inside the hole and noticed that the connect rod was gone...what do you think actually happened? If I buy another engine and bypass the governor, what do you think I need to do so this doesn't happen again???
They make a billet rod for that motor sounds like you need one. Isky makes a cam too, the "Black Mamba" try it out ! Also Put the head off a 5hp on there and punch up the compression , get 1:1 rockers and go high lift If your gonna go stock rod polish it and open up the little oil feed hole a bit put a nice radius on there. You could run a GX 200 flat top piston but you have to shave the block down 50 or 60 thou ta get a tight quench. Do it and bomb down the road at 70 mph on a squirrely as fuck Motovox with 19 inch ape hangers and a shit eatin grin from ear to ear !!!
@@luckyPiston well, I definitely like your idea of fun lol... I went ahead and ordered a stage 4 kit from gopower sports..and going to be doing the build myself.. got 22lb springs, billet connecting rod, billet flywheel, with 32degree advance timing, chrom moly pushrods, mod2cam, tinner head gasket, and gonna carry over my stage 1 kit as well.. do a full governor removal..and add a 26mm mukuni carb asap.. should be fine..lol
@@asphaltcowboy7868 Nice combo and you're stabbin in a cam too yeah at 245 degrees she'll have some snort ! yeah small engines are a hoot to play with.
Thank you for this awesome demo on piston rod strength.., I have a question, what are the differences between an (H) beam rod and ( I ) beam rod? What are the applications and what’s best for running turbo? I’m thinking the ( I ) beam will resist warpage better on a power stroke... please explain👌
Don't just hear, but think. I-beam rod's shape is just like oem rod, only thickness and material more better than oem. H-beam rod is the latest and strongest rod's shape known today. Please visit any high performance rod maker's official website, there they has showed all kind of their rod's strength.
There isn't a one size fits all answer for this question. I beams and H beams are the same thing, they are just rotated 90 degrees in relation to the way the connecting rod rotates about the crank. This allows manufacturers to change height and base dimensions of the beams tailored to specific applications. Sometimes this can result in a lighter connecting rod, more stiff connecting rod, or a compromise of both. If you want to really understand this stuff, learn mechanics of materials. From my understanding, flexural rigidity is one of the primary considerations made during connecting rod design; flexural rigidity is a function of the modulus of elasticity (E) and area moment of inertia (I). Modulus of elasticity is a material property. Area moment of inertia is a parts cross sectional resistance to bending (deflection). So in conclusion, it comes down to how anal you want to be with designing your build and how many different considerations you've made when choosing parts. With that being said, manufacturers produce both and sell both successfully.
Depends where matritial is in relation to centerline of the rod, I beam has a lot of material outside of a center web, H beams tend to be wider to compensate for less material faraway from the centerline. To illustrate think about which part of a T shape is easier the bend, put a flat on the bendy end of a T and you've got an I beam.
@@gilakail most of the high end and strongest of rods are not H beam. They're I beam. plenty examples of this. Not too many billet H beam rods out there.
If you go by recommended stretch the lube in all honesty doesn't really matter. However, not everyone does go by stretch and thus we found the CP-Carrillo molykote lube to have the best properties for fastener lubrication. This is still molybdenum based lubrication grease, but with enhanced properties. CP-Carrillo lube offers an improved clamp load repeatability, greater resistance to high pressure and temperature (range -22F to 1200F), and no oil contamination. The coefficient of friction stays unchanged, even after several bolt re-tightening and loosening processes.
Bolt lube for torquing studs/bolts is *not* assembly lube; Never, ever use the high pressure bolt/nut lube on bearings as an assembly grease. Use the proper assembly lubricant for that. And don't use flat tappet cam lube on bearings either, that's a no no
Hey can someone help me? i have read on the internet that high boost at low rpm's can bend connecting rods is that true? does high boost alone bends the rods or the because of the detonation that takes place due to high boos?
@@ujjwalstar9389 Detonation, so with a lot of boost you could have dynamic compression of 12:1 or more so just compressing the mix is making a lot of heat and you could have the start of combustion (ignition) creating enough pressure to set off combustion in another part of the chamber and you will have two flame fronts colliding causing a huge pressure spike, this is where intercooling gets that under control. Yeah so if you are at low rpm like you were asking about there is way more time for this to happen, High rpm less time so you can get away with more.
It's hard to tell how the load case was modeled. It would be a bit long iterative process to analyze the deformation at different crank angles. I assume they modeled where the expected max tension and compressive forces are experienced. For the compressive load case, my guess would be BTDC during the compression stroke, when the intake valve is completely open. For the tension load case, probably during spark in the power stroke ATDC. So the load wont be completely axial with rod beam if what I stated previously is correct.
FYI...you'd be a hell of a lot easier to listen to if you didn't shout :-/...you keep talking about HP...its meaningless...torque vs rpm...super charged/turbo charged/na high rpm all very different demands & effects on all the mechanicals...torque & cylinder pressures & rates of combustion...high rpm & rod & bolt stretch... HP ???? meaningless
![Aluminium Conrod Pros and Cons | GRP Connecting Rods [TECH TALK]](/img/n.gif)
A very good video with extremely rare and very useful information but it's a real shame it's in 360p (and occasionally it looks even worse than 144p!) which loses a lot of the details especially on the damaged components and screen graphics. You're giving us real good stuff so I would strongly advise you to re-do this video with a better camera.
Hook the betamax up to the microwave, and watch some hot tv!
Dont understand what you couldnt see darkening and blueing
use your computors magnifier
Floating pin clearance is tricky on vw aircooled. To tight on the piston and in cold start its putting strain on rod bushing. Too loose and its sloppy after warmed up. Too tight you get to rebush the rods. Better free float in piston lightly oiled. That's my take on it. Good video for understanding rod loading. Thanks.
Great presentations thank you also thank you for offering help for information
you are some kind of teacher not only professionals
Steve Morris got me here by saying he used your rods and hitting subscribe was an easy choice after this great video
Like different rods my thoughts turn to bearings. With high-silicone content aluminum found in Tri-Metal bearings now the rage, I like the steel shell Bi-Metal babbitt last longer. To me this helps the rod without internal deformation before the rod see it. In other words, spreading the load evenly from the crank into the bearing, but equally transferring the load into the rod. I feel this actually make the rod last longer before distortion occurs causing rod failure. Thoughts? This discussion came up a few time with mostly V8 engine builders.
I think you are getting into babbitt thickness and how that distributes load as opposed to deforming , tri-metal have a layer of copper in there so you can only go so thick on your steel shell where with bi-metal you can run a thicker shell and still maintain a reasonable amount of babbit. King bearings make thick steel shell bi-metal bearings but you give up conformability and embeddability in exchange for increased load carrying capacity. What series of bi-metal bearing have you been using ?
Rod bolt failure valve springs are a must change.
Nice presentation. I can't quite understand why there is loading around the studs on the power stroke. I would have thought the power stroke would have the most loading around the top third of the rod journal. I understand the bolt flange area (studs specifically) to have the highest forces on the intake stroke. Does the mating area experience high loads due to stretching of the bolts and then slamming closed on the power stroke?
I'm impressed this is all one camera shot...Noice
So that why my #4 connecting rod on my N/A engine disintegrated when I put a turbocharger on it, it lasted 5 days at 6-8 psi and was fun as hell until it blew up
Dassault Systèmes Catia... my next rods will be Carrillo rods 😎
Does polishing the cap and rod beam sides, and pin end of a stock Windsor 5.965 rod improve it's durability? Reducing areas of phitegue?!!
Great information 👍
Key question how long are your rods good for it's how big your pocketbook
Maybe not the best quality AV, but exhalent bullshitless content for the enthusiastic weekend racer on a budget.
Great information thanks for sharing
Can I reuse my OE rodbolts? Just rebuilding my daily driver (KA24E)
What kind of damage in a brand new GM Yukon can happen in in my engine, the rod broke??
I,m sure glad your products are better than the Camera you used in making this Video
First thing I look for is where the hole in the pan is.
Instant subscription 😊
I have a 212cc predator go kart engine.. with a stage 1 kit (bigger air intake, bigger jet, and straight pipe exhaust) with the governor bypassed.. rode it hard for the last 6 months and it finally blew up the other day..it blow a hole through the block..I looked down inside the hole and noticed that the connect rod was gone...what do you think actually happened? If I buy another engine and bypass the governor, what do you think I need to do so this doesn't happen again???
They make a billet rod for that motor sounds like you need one. Isky makes a cam too, the "Black Mamba" try it out !
Also Put the head off a 5hp on there and punch up the compression , get 1:1 rockers and go high lift
If your gonna go stock rod polish it and open up the little oil feed hole a bit put a nice radius on there.
You could run a GX 200 flat top piston but you have to shave the block down 50 or 60 thou ta get a tight quench.
Do it and bomb down the road at 70 mph on a squirrely as fuck Motovox with 19 inch ape hangers and a shit eatin grin from ear to ear !!!
@@luckyPiston well, I definitely like your idea of fun lol... I went ahead and ordered a stage 4 kit from gopower sports..and going to be doing the build myself.. got 22lb springs, billet connecting rod, billet flywheel, with 32degree advance timing, chrom moly pushrods, mod2cam, tinner head gasket, and gonna carry over my stage 1 kit as well.. do a full governor removal..and add a 26mm mukuni carb asap.. should be fine..lol
Also to add, it's actually a drift trike, not a go kart
@@asphaltcowboy7868 Nice combo and you're stabbin in a cam too yeah at 245 degrees she'll have some snort ! yeah small engines are a hoot to play with.
@@asphaltcowboy7868 Im working on a Doodlebug with a 420cc , half the bike is motor ! friggin hilarious !
Business most not be good back in 2017... Couldn't afford a better camera xD. great video tho
Agreed.. Design Connecting Rods and film them in 360 Potato ......Not to mention the old school BS Up-sell ill get my Rods somewhere else thanks~
very usefull but for non custom engines is not worth it.. they surely do not have the capacity to make rods better than OEM
Cheap oil, no regular oil changes, no engine warm up.
Thank you for this awesome demo on piston rod strength.., I have a question, what are the differences between an (H) beam rod and ( I ) beam rod? What are the applications and what’s best for running turbo? I’m thinking the ( I ) beam will resist warpage better on a power stroke... please explain👌
I'm not specialist but I heard (I) beam rods are stronger to use with high boost applications but they are harder to produce = more expensive
Don't just hear, but think. I-beam rod's shape is just like oem rod, only thickness and material more better than oem. H-beam rod is the latest and strongest rod's shape known today. Please visit any high performance rod maker's official website, there they has showed all kind of their rod's strength.
There isn't a one size fits all answer for this question. I beams and H beams are the same thing, they are just rotated 90 degrees in relation to the way the connecting rod rotates about the crank. This allows manufacturers to change height and base dimensions of the beams tailored to specific applications. Sometimes this can result in a lighter connecting rod, more stiff connecting rod, or a compromise of both. If you want to really understand this stuff, learn mechanics of materials. From my understanding, flexural rigidity is one of the primary considerations made during connecting rod design; flexural rigidity is a function of the modulus of elasticity (E) and area moment of inertia (I). Modulus of elasticity is a material property. Area moment of inertia is a parts cross sectional resistance to bending (deflection). So in conclusion, it comes down to how anal you want to be with designing your build and how many different considerations you've made when choosing parts. With that being said, manufacturers produce both and sell both successfully.
Depends where matritial is in relation to centerline of the rod, I beam has a lot of material outside of a center web, H beams tend to be wider to compensate for less material faraway from the centerline. To illustrate think about which part of a T shape is easier the bend, put a flat on the bendy end of a T and you've got an I beam.
@@gilakail most of the high end and strongest of rods are not H beam. They're I beam. plenty examples of this. Not too many billet H beam rods out there.
Are ARP ultra torque better than CP's assembly lube? You guys use molybdenum, from what they showed they got better consistency from arp
If you go by recommended stretch the lube in all honesty doesn't really matter. However, not everyone does go by stretch and thus we found the CP-Carrillo molykote lube to have the best properties for fastener lubrication. This is still molybdenum based lubrication grease, but with enhanced properties. CP-Carrillo lube offers an improved clamp load repeatability, greater resistance to high pressure and
temperature (range -22F to 1200F), and no oil contamination. The coefficient of friction stays unchanged, even after several bolt re-tightening and loosening processes.
Oh ok, i was going to go by stretch, just need to know which lube was better :D
Bolt lube for torquing studs/bolts is *not* assembly lube; Never, ever use the high pressure bolt/nut lube on bearings as an assembly grease. Use the proper assembly lubricant for that. And don't use flat tappet cam lube on bearings either, that's a no no
Hey can someone help me? i have read on the internet that high boost at low rpm's can bend connecting rods is that true? does high boost alone bends the rods or the because of the detonation that takes place due to high boos?
pressure spikes in the combustion phase that are off the chart especially at low rpm are going to pound bearings and bend things.
@@luckyPiston are u saying that the spike from boost is high or detonation?
@@ujjwalstar9389 Detonation, so with a lot of boost you could have dynamic compression of 12:1 or more so just compressing the mix is making a lot of heat and you could have the start of combustion (ignition) creating enough pressure to set off combustion in another part of the chamber and you will have two flame fronts colliding causing a huge pressure spike, this is where intercooling gets that under control. Yeah so if you are at low rpm like you were asking about there is way more time for this to happen, High rpm less time so you can get away with more.
Nice, but too bad about the focus.
You stress diagram is just straight up and down? What about in use when its at an angle do you model that?
It's hard to tell how the load case was modeled. It would be a bit long iterative process to analyze the deformation at different crank angles. I assume they modeled where the expected max tension and compressive forces are experienced. For the compressive load case, my guess would be BTDC during the compression stroke, when the intake valve is completely open. For the tension load case, probably during spark in the power stroke ATDC. So the load wont be completely axial with rod beam if what I stated previously is correct.
Who the hell is running that camera ,an infant with parkinson's disease ,and blind . otherwise great vid .that guy couldn't spell camera .
Pity the video quality is so bad
FYI...you'd be a hell of a lot easier to listen to if you didn't shout :-/...you keep talking about HP...its meaningless...torque vs rpm...super charged/turbo charged/na high rpm all very different demands & effects on all the mechanicals...torque & cylinder pressures & rates of combustion...high rpm & rod & bolt stretch... HP ???? meaningless