UA-cam comments aren't great at the best of times, but I feel like the level of discourse in the DF comment section falls off a cliff whenever the PS5 Pro is mentioned.
@@joefawley9264I think he is just referring to generalisations. Not specific comments about the lack of a drive. For me, when I look at when games on the standard PS5 I have, compared to the £700 pro console with no drive, no way to stand it up, not that huge of an overall improvement visually. Also, I noticed your were in another comments section on this video. Lack of Xbox sales someone mentioned compared to ps5 selling and Xbox just sits on the shelves. Well the pro is discounted already in four major retailers. I think by about £50. But discounts on a new piece of hardware suggests they ain’t flying off the shelves like a user you engaged with. I’m not a collector of discs and like the idea of digital in some ways. But unlike having the physical disc, we never own it. And Sony are testing us out and want us fully digital, so we have to buy from their store only, and pay insane prices. On disc, I love that I have 20+ places that will stock that game for me, reducing price. Hell, I even wait until price has dropped in say 6 months, and major patches have released, then drop over to eBay for a used copy at used prices!. All the best!
Bro kkkkkkkk Exactly this. I treat my gaming laptop this way. It is too weak to be a gaming anything, and it is too heavy to be a fuckin laptop. It ends up being a useless piece of hardware that becomes a sore to take around
Df need to hire one of the many educated community managers who are now out of work and have the education to make more sense than the knuckle-dragging explanation(s) they give of everything. It cracks me up how they can bullshit so long about topics they only know the buzzwords about. I take their explanations to mean nothing. It's like when a secretary for a doctor has to take vocabulary courses to become familiar with terms they do not understand so they can spell them faster when typing reports from dictaphone audio. They need to do better. They are the laughing stock of every other engineer I know.
Speaking on Project Amethyst I found it surprising Mark Cerny reiterated it is not a Playstation Proprietary initiative but meant to further the Raytracing and Machine Learning of all AMD hardware the same approach Microsoft uses with AMD and their custom silicon team trying to create an industry standard which will help them advance much faster and farther
We don't know whether Microsoft will use AMD for their next Xbox (Xbox 5). If they do, it would be strange if Microsoft got Sony tech into Xbox via AMD.
@@cube2foxMeh. Sony got a whole bunch of features in PlayStation thanks to Microsoft DirectX features that ended up being ported to Vulkan and other APIs/SDKs. It's how tech works.
@cube2fox yeah we can't think about it as Sony getting Microsoft tech in their Playstation or Vice Versa they are architecting future silicon and have done it this way for generations now for example the Ray tracing standard in DirectX Nvidia innovated the hardware and Microsoft had to meet them with the software engineering to enable it what I found interesting was how Cerny talked about their project openly these types of collaborations are usually pretty secret even if they're open source
@@cube2foxI mean I wouldn't think they'd be part of the second part and get the models directly, but it wouldn't be far fetched if they got some of those hardware features. Or they got something of it if some stuff was made open source. In the end both Microsoft and Sony always profit from another bringing new innovations into the market, whether it seems natural or not. I don't think Sony will make their "enhanced ML architecture" their selling point, they all sell based on the software running on top of it, their own unique integrations of the technology (like PSSR) and of course their games. For the base hardware features like storage, CPU, GPU and RT they're always pretty close (as evident with the PS5 and XSX), it's how you use it that matters.
Just had a extremely clever guy give us a talk and all I see in the comments are keybored experts questioning and bashing everything he's presented 🤦 gaming nowadays is rife with miserable and toxic people and it's making this hobby un fun 😢
15 or 20 years ago the internet was in its infancy and only a very few people had internet access. You had few annoying people but always below 10% the problem now is that the internet is accessible to everyone so you geta n accurate representation of society. It always sucked but they were miserable at home or limited to their neighborhood. Not anymore, and theyre emboldened because theyre away from immediate physical punishment.
We're objectively seeing some really cool and clever tech implementation where offerings matches and even exceeds $700 price tag and ofc, DF's discussion around it but some people in this comment section add nothing but childish jokes, or petty comments to feel better whatever they own over PS5 Pro.
People have no idea what is on the horizon. AI graphics will completely dominate the industry. We have only just seen the start of this revolution. Look at Nvidia's latest neural rendering. Which will allow us to have film level assets in a game running in real time. It is absolutely outstanding what is even achievable today, the next few years are going to be a wild ride.
You sound like anyone would be jealous of not owning a PS5 Pro, or feel like they're missing out on anything particularly interesting. Trust me, nobody feels that way lmao.
@@ShadowMan64572 if someone doesn't think not owning most powerful Console currently available is not missing out yet takes time and energy to clown on it then the issue is even bigger than jealousy!
700$ with disc drive and vertical stand would be expensive but fair. Disc drive unit cost is no more than 25$. In Europe price is 120€ premium for already more expensive than tax difference price of 800€. Sony is ripping people off double with Pro. If they really had to make it 700$ for cost reasons, they could make it 750$ with dics drive and still earn more per unit but that would mean no second raund from stupid expensive add-on. Complaining before buying is definetly more constructive for consumer since otherwise winner is Corpo who already got your money.
@@ShayONFarsi It's 2024. "Most powerful console" means nothing. What's the PS5 going to do that PCs can't? Unique fog and rain effects NO other platform could do like in the PS2 days? Lol, it's just a 8/10 PC, deal with it.
@@JeannieLove - 🤭 Don't feel bad. I was a beta-tester for the Xbox One X. At least Sony isn't telling you guys what you are after they've discontinued the console. Shame on you Microsoft. 🤨
9:18 Yes, they added HW stack management in RDNA3. See section 12.5.3, "DS Stack Operations for Ray Tracing" of the "RDNA3 Instruction Set Architecture: Reference Guide".
There's also an extra tunable for the box-sorting part of the intersection test, allowing you to pick if you want the closest hit, largest box or a mid-point. Each is useful in different scenarios (shadows vs reflections for instance). I happen to know there's some discussion of this by Arseny Kapoulkine in his "niagara: Tracing rays faster" stream (see the RT on RDNA / RDNA3 sections of said video).
from what he said it seems intel and nvidia are only should be able to give proper pathtracing performance , amd doesnt have discrete RT core??? like it still runs on shading units is it what is being told?
@@bmqww223 AMD has discrete RT cores, it doesn't run on shading units (not at list on RDNA3). The difference is that AMD usses a unified pipeline for RT cores and shaders which needs a different approach to scheduling and intersection calculations. Path Tracing right now is just a Beta running on a Nvidia framework...so it is really thought for Nvidia hardware and Nvidia's approach. There is no standard for path tracing...it's like trying to run Physix on non-Physix hardware: damaged on purpose. But havok tought us that you can have valid phisics in game without the need for Physix (as impressive as Phisix was). AMD will catch up, Intel maybe, if they continue with their ARC plan. Right now no ARC card can run Path Tracing in a decent way, the juice is not there...
With the close collaboration between Sony and AMD the core question for me is: how does Microsoft fit into the picture? They are also on the AMD train. If AMD GPUs will be using Sony technology for their future upscaling solution, will the next Xbox end up with Sony tech inside?! Or is this a sign that Microsoft is moving away from AMD?
check the last 10 years..........microsoft DOES NOT FIT into the pictures.....they are going 3rd party (they bacisly are 3rd party now) and mark said that the amystest is not just a playstion exclusive colab (i think the point is to dethrown nivida and as long as ppl are useing amd hardware they dont care) but this also goes to my inintal point.........sony prob almost and proby DO have an agreement with microsft to have them exit the console space(if you ask me it was during the abk deal as a way to let micosoft get abk with the agreement they will take steps to laeave hardware and go 3rd party) but everything microsoft has done since the abk deal was telling there player base that "everything is an xbox" and actively working to get there base off of the console and on pc oro ps5....
Годину тому
They are not on the picture, MS is now mostly out of console business
After all this coverage, I still don't feel like I am missing out on anything with skipping the Pro and I would fall into the target audience. Lack of disc drive and price in my country was a bridge too far for me.
@@vulcantuminello1127 the ps5 pro has sold more than the ps4 pro in the same amount of time 50% more, and the pro was 19%of all ps5 sold last month.......... so stop hateing, its selling better than any mid gen refresh
Smells like desperation, like low black friday sales. My friends console had defect, textures flicker, you could see black triangles. About the current performance of ps5pro - I say embrace it. Skip stupid upscaler, go with fsr3.1.3 + fg - it insta fixes resolution and low fps problems. Use AI for gimmicks and new features. Release tech demos or beta releases that ommit costly QA process. Sony is too stupid to do community driven settings presets but there are other routes totally open and ready to use.
Sold my PS5 and 2 games for $450.00 Got a few gift cards for Christmas totalling up to $150.00 Snagged a disk drive at MSRP. Purchased the PS5 Pro hassle free. Best Christmas ever.
I was very hesitant to buy my PS5 pro but when I finally pulled the trigger I didnt regret my decision with what I bought. As a serious everyday, every game, gamer, Im happy with the upgrade in every way... except where pssr or whatevers making a few games shimmer and its just a wait until they fix it like Avatar and some others. Like the pro update to Warhammer made a night and day improvement IMO. Also something great about Miles Morales this playthrough in on pro, my jaw is on the floor with graphical amazement. Get it for Christmas if your an everyday gamer and have money to also buy games... imagine spending 700 dollars on a call of duty machine. At least get the Extra pass for an enormous library to play this thing. Of coarse it could be better but it is what it is and its giving me what ps4 pro gave us and more.
Not sure about anyone else but Im seeing great improvements across the board over my older tech Launch PS5. Can't wait for GTA6! Great video for getting the full tech upgrade details.
Im starting to believe if you lived in the advent of technology from the 80s till the 2010 cusp, you appreciate most upgrades and youre willing to settle. Its the god forsaken generation that came after the fact that just shits and pisses over any little thing, any news article they read, and any little fumbling they personally do.
Pretty fascinating presentation especially the Machine Learning and Architecture segments and Cernys reasoning of Foregoing RDNA 3 for the base architecture do to backward compatibility reasons which raises some interesting questions for the future PS6 and which parts of the newer tech they will go with Sonys always been good at divining which technologies will best benefit their devs overall
@@aeneas116116 Mark Cerny is the wrong guy to ask, he just deals with tech. It's up to Hideaki Nishino, who replaced Jim Ryan as the head of business at Sony Interactive.
I wouldn't be surprised if the PS and AMD partnership leads to AMD using PSSR as their ML Upscaler for PC GPUs. I think it'd be beneficial to work together rather than individually working on ANOTHER Upscaler on the pile.
Why would anyone use PSSR when it looks like ass and DLSS is much better… As a PC gamer I have zero interest in PSSR. It’s expensive and looks like crap.
@@luism8130DLSS also looked like crap at first, maybe PSSR has more headroom for improvement compared to what AMD is doing for FSR3. And it's weird that Sony and AMD are making a partnership just to develop different AI-based upscalers (FSR4 and PSSR). I also think it would make more sense to join efforts on a single solution.
@@cube2fox there wont be a next xbox..........if you are an xbox users get out now, just buy a playstion 5 pro, keep your xbox and play ur library games on ur xbox, but buy new games on the pro, thats what my friends did.
Actually "Spectral" can make sense: 1) related to colors of a spectrum, here the AI stuff is adding new image data, and each pixel is made of 3 color components, so basically the job of the AI is to find the right colors for every pixel; 2) related to ghosts, here the AI is almost "inventing" new data, that are not the real data that was computed but something else, like a ghost... and there's even ghosting which of course everyone is trying to eliminate.
Like my PS5 Pro i have always been a console gamer. Sometimes, i questioned why i spent so much on building a 4090 gaming PC, which i hardly get time to use.
My 3080ti machine may be the last PC I bother with for a long time. Consoles caught up and give exactly what I want in a much easier to use and more optimized package. Outside of exclusives like some MMOs I may be done.
Is your PC sitting next to the PS5, being connected to your TV? I've noticed that it makes a huge difference. It's still a bit less comfortable than a console thanks to the usual PC quirks, but it's almost there when done right, and the end result in terms of performance and image quality is much appreciated.
@@NeovanGoth I usually bring my P25 Pro and Series X to my desk and take advantage of my much better monitor. And depending on the game plug in my mouse and keyboard. Consoles can give me the experience they PC has with almost now hassle anymore. No battling with drivers and settings and the image quality (depending on developer and game) really isn’t much less. There was a generation when the jump was incredible, but not any longer. I’m also a firm believer that ray tracing is not worth the expense and completely over hyped and under delivered.
As a ps5 pro buyer I've been extremely underwhelmed. Yes stellar blade looks better, but I honestly think ff7 rebirth still looks awful outside of cutscenes. The skin shading makes the characters look terrible during gameplay in my opinion, and it still looks flat on pro. I bought from costco and used my drive my my base slim model, and I'll be returning the pro in a couple weeks.
@davidvillamarin-lj2pf why is it so hard to believe? I returned mine to Amazon (after 3 weeks) for similar reasons. If I could attach a screen shot of my Amazon return, I would. It just isn't worth the £700 price tag. The best looking games I seen on it were the Horizon games. The downside being the games aren't very good. In a nutshell, the games are almost fidelity mode at 60fps, when 60fps is available. It's a nice improvement, but nowhere the jump the previous mid-gen consoles were. I may pick one up again when GTA 6 releases, but only if it's cheaper. The price is a disgrace for the minimal improvements. Even the packaging doesn't reflect the price (it's the same cheap ass cartons used in a PS5).
I’m so confused by this video. Talking about the PS5 Pro as if it was still this thing that is unknown or theoretical. Even if this was filmed prior to the Pro’s launch, this video should not have been released with old and outdated discussion. Especially when some of the theoretical turned out to be a giant fart noise.
Still wondering why the AI units are not also used for more natural enemy behavior AI, like an „offline Sophy“ for GT7. THIS would create a leap in gaming!
That is being worked on. ML machines are being used for more dynamic enemy AI. It'll take years for proper development though. You might see a very early basic version of it on the PS6.
I think animation is the big next step for ML. It's really difficult to get natural movements in games even with mocap technology. Like in sport games, athletes actually look like athletes until they start moving, then everything just looks robotic.
I have a PC and PS5 Pro and I play on my PS5 Pro. Is there something wrong with me? Everyone keeps telling me to get a PC instead but I play my Pro more.
I know for a FACT that my PC is far more powerful than any of the people who cry that people should get a PC and I still wanted and could afford a Pro so I purchased one.... Some people seem to have a hard time grasping that when you live in adult world and have an adult level career/job that isn't "cashier" part time and you spend 12-14hrs working on a PC that playing games on a PC might just feel like work, so you play games on a console to avoid that
Not even with such a cool talk some can't leave out the console war. There isn't any. It's over. It's not that hard to understand. Everything is coming to the ps5 and pro. Everything is an xbox.
I noticed the shimmering in games like Alan Wake 2 without using PSSR and it's still there with FSR3. PSSR is not mature yet but I think it will get there in time. Hopefully soon of course but overall I thin the dev's are concentrating on other ares of their game but dropping the resolution which to me really does display the faults with upscaling tech.
You are right. That said some games look fantastic on the Pro. It’s the lighting that really makes games shine. But yeah PSSR at this point is massively disappointing.
Output resolution is not the same as native resolution and upscaled resolution. Being able to support an image being displayed at 4K is not the same as running a game at native 4K. If you believe Output resolution is pointless because the device does not have the power to utilize it in games. Look at the Nintendo Switch. Games are pixilated, blurry and have a Vaseline effect on most 4k TV’s due to its lack of 4k output.
In the interview Cerny acknowledged that they are aware of the issues of the lower res upscaling with PSSR and that they'll continue to work on and improve the technology but it's ultimately up to the developers if they want to implement newer versions of PSSR.
For consoles to ever get more powerful they need to be like 8 inches tall. With same width. Add more cooling and much more powerful parts. Slap a 999.00 price tag on them and sold. That’s nothing compared to the price of a pc. I would pay 1200 for a bigger more powerful console
If you are wondering how smart he is: _Cerny left UC Berkley at 17 to join Atari and later Sega in the 80s, then Crystal Dynamics and Universal Games in the 90s. He never finished college._
Elon musk was a college drop out. Many of the greatest entrepreneurs of today dropped out of college, it doesn't reflect how smart someone is, I would argue it's quite the opposite. Cerny is a million times smarter then you with real accomplishments and wealth, and you? Some broke UA-cam commenter that lives at home with Mommy still, stay in your lane kid, until you release a console, don't speak.
@@Boss_Fight_Index_muki he's smart enough that he's the architect for PlayStation Vita, PS4 & PS5 & PS5 PRO. That smart. Mind you, Elon musk is also a college drop out and he's a modern day Genius. You are clueless.
@@LegacyRap7777 _...he transferred to the University of Pennsylvania, where he studied until 1995. Although Musk has said that he earned his degrees in 1995, the University of Pennsylvania did not award them until 1997 - a Bachelor of Arts in physics and a Bachelor of Science in economics from the university's Wharton School._ -Wikipedia Do your research.
@Boss_Fight_Index_muki if you're not aware of the long list of entrepreneurs that dropped out of college and are billionaires today you are absolutely more clueless then I could have ever imagined
Commented this on the original PS5 Pro video, somone give me a cookie 😂: DF, PS5P is 4nm TSMC. And based on the results you're getting I'm not convinced the raster pipeline is anything more than a die shrunk RDNA1/2 with 60 CU instead of 36. No RDNA3/4 raster tech here, I think the 16.7TF number is generous if anything. This is more in line with 3070/6750TX performance than 6800. Bit of a let down that.
I think he looks very much like Garth (Dana Carvey) from Wayne's World. Edit: Red Dwarf is very funny and I liked it since I was a teen. I didn't know his name was Arnold, so I sort of guessed it was that guy from Red Dwarf then knew a bit more when HulksMistress mentioned that he was called Rimmer (because it still could have meant about why Mark Cerny was called Rimmer).
Im stunned that after several hours of information provided to us by DF, we still have these people in the comments saying 🤓 series x is better, and 🤓 it's not enough of an improvement. I mean, have you not been listening, or are you just not understanding? 🙄😑🫣
At £700, the improvements are not worth it. PS5 Pro isn't the jump in quality the previous mid-gen consoles produced. Nowhere near. Diminishing returns are real. People are going to call me a liar, coz it will hurt their feelings. If I could attach a screen shot of my Amazon return, I would. I held onto it for 3 weeks, but was underwhelmed. I was playing on a 65" LG OLED, before anyone blames my TV. The trouble is, you've seen the graphics before, if you've tried fidelity mode. So it's almost fidelity mode at 60fps. That's great for those who appreciate the higher fidelity at 60fps. But it's far from a game changer. PSSR is the biggest disappointment. It says it all the Horizon games look best, and don't even use PSSR. Overall, improvements are minimal and not worth the price tag. It is also notably louder than a regular PS5, which inexplicably hasn't been mentioned by reviewers.
It's really just a marketing tool at this point--even on PC it isn't always worth the performance loss and the weird shimmering reflections and other artefacting common with RT. I have a high end PC with a 4080 super so I'm not just talking out my ass, I've tried all the 'best examples of RTX' and rarely do I actually use RT. Most modern games don't even bother rendering mirrors in bathrooms and stuff, which we saw in games over 20 years ago like Deus Ex 1 and MGS2, so unless you're playing a game with an abnormally high amount of glass surfaces (modern spiderman games, mirrors edge catalyst... maybe 1 or 2 more at most) or puddles (literally Cyberpunk and... SH2R has some puddles.... Stalker 2 is years away from being optimized but it has puddles... that's about it lol) you really aren't missing much without RT. We have like 5% as many games as were released in the 2000s where we had 50+ amazing masterpieces yearly and tons of GTA competitors which today would have reflective cars. There's uhh.. Watch Dogs which is well, definitely a Ubisoft game, and a now 11 year old GTA, anddd uhhh, that's it lol.
I loved it in Spiderman and R&C Rift apart, the reflections at least (RT performance modes so still 60fps). Spiderman looks much better with reflective skyscrapers. The shadows and lighting I don't really care about vs other methods.
@g2jxGhF5G8z1gL7S thanks for sharing. I'm thinking about building a good PC with a GPU pre AI and RT so I can cling to my combustion engine lol. Like you said, as long as it can run RDR2 and GTA era I should be good for another decade at this rate.
When the game is very responsive and there is a stick deadzone setting (like in Avatar) I like a stable 30fps mode. It plays well with my SONY TV frame generation.🌌💟
Really been loving my PS5 Pro tbh. It differs from title to title but the likes of Stella Blade and FFXVII Rebirth are a night and day difference to the base model. Only thing I dislike is that it’s slightly louder than my old ps5 but that’s a given I guess
@@bollywongaloid the guy who replied to you doesn't actually have a Pro, so they're going off of YT video comparisons and still shots. Seeing the console in motion on a 4k 120hz TV is pretty eye-opening with what it can deliver.
I own the Pro and I feel Sony are just beta testing PSSR in preparation for the PS6 launch. I hope PSSR improves on the pro up until the launch of the PS6 as I'm feeling pretty much ripped off right now.
Who cares if it's not backwards compatible again? Would buy a new HMD with HW IPD adjustment if it had BC to PSVR1, but apparently the single digit manmonths of engineer time for a BC layer is too much to ask...
I dont think im sold on all of this software base upscalling as of now look at Gen 9 games natively and then Gen 8 games running Gen 9 hardware natively and PS4 games look good running Native 4k/60 then games running low resolutions(720p and lower) then upscaled they dont look sharp im just wondering why this isnt being talk about here. The hardware need to have the power to push true true 4k/60 with ray tracing as of now till A.I. really take off and more affordable on console. The Xbox One X came the closes to run games Native 4k/30 and some at 60.
Tomorrow's tech today?😂 That would be the upcoming 50 series GPUs and, maybe to see what AMD has with their 8000 series. PS5 Pro is powerful but get real lol. It's between a 4060 - 4060 Ti.
So in essence if Cerny didnt/couldn't make the PS5 PRO GPU RDNA3 because of compatibility issues then how will Sony utilize AMD UDNA with the PS6???? Llike former Sony exec Shawn Layden said, TFLOP war is over. UDNA in might be not a big TFlop upgrade but the GPU pipeline for CNN, memory bandwidth and ML and such will be more of the upgrade for graphics. Interesting to see where Cerny is going with this.
OR things could just be priced at what they are and not at Welfare or Coupon day levels, especially when its junk for a hobby that is a WANT in life and not something that anyone NEEDS to survive daily life. I've had a disc drive attached to my Pro since day 1 because I can afford it so I purchased it.
3D V-Cache i hope will be a huge Thing on the PS6. Its obviously VERY good if you can use it which is most Games. 2 big Caches on CPU and GPU combined with high Bandwith (VRAM) Lanes. Something like that seems like a great Idea that should not Cost insane Amounts of Money. At least not as much as an RTX 4080+. Could make a really good new Generation imo. Everything you do with that Console should be better. But i have no Idea what they will do. Thats what i think would make Sense.
3D V cache is impossible on an APU because that tremendous amount of cache can’t fit on that die space. Along with the cost and heat it generates as well. There is a reason why APU’s have significantly less L3 cache compared to CPU’s.
Everything you do with a console is not better. Consoles are meant to be small efficient machines built for affordability. They are always limited in memory, bandwidth, GPU and CPU power. So stop being delusional.
$40 of extra RAM on every GPU would solve most of the issues we have with upscaling nonsense. If developers could just run high quality textures all the time games would look great. Upscaling is muddying our games and adding in flicker and artifacts, just because GPU developers refuse to provide an appropriate amount of VRAM on cards. $40 extra would give every card an extra 16GB of VRAM and no one would need upscalers.
@@Junior305able It wouldn't solve RT performance of course. But if every game could use really high fidelity textures on all tiers of GPU it would be great.
The corporate future is always like that. I bet nvidia has a similar pitch for ray tracing back in 2018. Not being a kid with early adopter value anymore, the 5 series will be my first rt card. It was only two weeks ago that the number of games that really use rt that I want to play… ticked up to… a big *2* with Indiana jones. Yeah ai this sure. Yet devs will just keep using the basic rasterisation hardware. Like with rt…
everything is good until you see sony can't keep prices low, so you might as well get a decent GPU and skip dealing with their woes and paywall for online playing
@@Crimsongz cap..........they just put denuvo in all games for fun right? stop the cap, pc gamers are hella cheaters and yea, they need to stop with tthe "pay for play online" because HALF of the games you dnot have to pay to play online any game that is FREE 2 PLAY is free to play online(you have to be online to play the game so you can play it without paying for it) if you have a sub to a game its free to play online also ( like mmos ) the only games you STILL need to pay to play online are the single palyer games with multipplayer function like elden ring, black ops 6 ect ect you know all the games you pay 70 bucks for......... you be suprised how many games you dont have to pay to play online for anymore. and ps+ gives you 3 or 4 free games a month to download that you can play as long as you have a sub (i have over 200 games ) so for 150 bucks the base 1 year cost of ps+ you get at lest 3 games a month for free each month( you dont chose the games) so thats 36 games a year that means you pay 4 bucks and 10 cent per game if you download all of the games that year 150/36 its over blown, that ppl cry about it the cost of ps+ is liek 11 bucks or 12bucks a month the cost of a large coffie from starbucks or a quarter pounder meal from fast food. if any of that is keeping ppl from gaming on console ....................then you need to stop gaming on anything and get your money right
I miss Ken Kutaragi. Innovation in hardware, something to set you apart from the competition. Everyone's saying: Oh...... Xbox lost the console wars..... On the contrary. Xbox won! They got Sony to give up their edge and follow Microsoft down their rabbit hole. PlayStation was like Apple at one time, I would only imagine Kutaragi either thought like Jobs or idolized Jobs because Sonys proprietary tech set them apart and was a threat to Microsoft, actually made them feared and respected. Sound familiar to another industry leader? What Xbox got Sony to do was give up all of that and use a PC-based architecture type. What has that done today? Well, you're about to see it. With recent interviews done with Shawn Layden, HE says consoles are dead. Xbox has gotten PlayStation to port games to PC. Sony must think they're slick to stay side-by-side with Xbox by using Steam or Epic Games launcher BUT, Xbox is already thinking ahead trying to get those launchers to work on their current and future hardware to get what Phil Spencer always wanted: GOD OF WAR ON AN XBOX. If he can't get PlayStation to do it willingly, he's gonna find a roundabout way to do it, assuming Jim Ryan was honest about what really happened with MLB, I have a sneaky suspicion Phil Spencer had something to do with that whining and crying that got MLB to tell Sony OR ELSE, because immediately MLB told Sony how the game industry is run, no body came to their assistance to defend the gaming industry and how things are done, and wouldn't you know it, The Show ended up immediately for free on Xbox's console through Game Pass. Look at Nintendo, though. Standing STRONG, showing confidence. Xbox has no choice, they blew all that money on Activision WAY OVER PAYING to secure what they feared could be snakes out from underneath them and who ended paying the price for that? Microsoft? No way, they shifted the price of that to the same they always do, the consumers. While Nintendo is standing firm, not a port to a competing console in sight, as a consumer, that catches my eye, it grabs my interest and yells in my face "LISTEN TO ME!" Do I want an Xbox, a PlayStation or a Nintendo Switch 2 at that point? I want a console that's confident, Nintendo is confident in their brand, I mean what does Sony or Xbox lose of the industry crashes? Xbox goes back to Office softwareware. Sony, back to everything electronics, music, and movies, and now anime. But Nintendo? Nintendo has the most to lose, they lose, they're going back to making playing cards and board games which tells me one thing: IF NINTENDO ISNT WORRIED AND PANICING POETING GAMES TO PC AND OTHER COMPETITION, why should Sony whose nice and comfortable? We know why Xbox is, theyve dug themselves into a whole they can't dig themselves out of, they've lost consumer trust which makes you wonder why Sony is sitting in the middle looking both ways. And that's precisely my point. Under Kutaragi, PlayStation was innovative. THEY were the industry leader now, now they're the follower, no genius minds at work
I might be stuck in the past, but it's just such a shame to see all these advancements, big and small and not using them for older titles. Like Bloodborne and Gravity Rush 2, both still at 30 fps. Especially GR2 with all of its physics simulation would look amazing at higher framerate. I'd like to see Sony utilize their hardware on their software more thoroughly. Right now it feels like bandaid solutions to problems that might have not even needed to exist in the first place, if more care went into development and planning of the games.
This is completely on the developers and not Sony. Even if they delivered a PS5 Pro with performance better than an RTX 4090, you'd still be seeing games that run at 1080p 30fps because many developers can't be bothered to update their games and increase resolution/framerate. Or they're so incompetent they can't get the game to a stable place even on PS5 Pro hardware (Elden Ring). It's why I ultimately think PC is the better platform. Optimization might be worse, and aging hardware will be noticeable after a while, but atleast you have full control over the games you play. I find it irritating that I can play Elden Ring at 60fps on my RTX 2070, but the more powerful consoles (Series X, PS5 and PS5 Pro) cannot, due to poor graphics/resolution configurations on FromSoftware's end.
The issue with Bloodborne is that FromSoft almost never goes back and works on older console versions of games and the only reason games like DS3 and Sekiro run at 60fps is because they were patched for the last gen mid-generation refreshes to have an unlocked framerate. Sony also owns or at least co-owns the IP but since FromSoft made the game means they'd have to be the ones to patch it, it was also co-developed by Japan Studio which Sony closed down every dev under that label except for Team Asobi who made Astro Bot, so there's like nobody who could patch it currently. It's also possible they don't wanna patch it because Bluepoint could be remastering/remaking the game, and I know not everyone liked the direction they took with the art style in Demon's Souls but Sony knows they'd lose sales on a remake if they just released a 60fps patch for the base game because everyone is asking for just that.
@@unnoticedhero1 Another reason it may not have been patched is because, since FS is no longer working with Sony, are not obligated to. So why would they. Especially as I believe they've stated they did not have a great time working under Sony (may be wrong).
Unfortunately, that aspect is up the devs. And super unfortunately, Japan Studio, who made Gravity Rush and helped with bloodbourne, got closed down (remaments of them live on with Team Aosobi). While FromSoftware did make Bloodbourne, it is owned by Sony. And since they don't work with them anymore, have no obligation to. I imagine though Bloodbourne will get a remaster like Demon Soul one day. (Probably PS6 though, since Bluepoint is currently developing their very own IP).
@@ScyrousFX Had the same irritation you did with Elden Ring but for me, it's Red Dead 2. What pisses me off about that one is that it's just plain greed, because god knows friggin' _Rockstar_ could easily put out a High rez/60FPS patch for current gen, but they're probably holding off on it so as to sell "current gen" copies, most likely at full price as well. 😞
You forgot to ask about the missing disk drive.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I've had one disc in my disc drive forever and that's cyberpunk because I need it for the PS5 digital upgrade verification lol fuck discs
No disc drive, no buy. Hoping Ps6 doesn't follow this route.
$79.99
yall need to realize you're dinosaurs. You know why theres no disc drive, but you refuse to live in 2024...
UA-cam comments aren't great at the best of times, but I feel like the level of discourse in the DF comment section falls off a cliff whenever the PS5 Pro is mentioned.
You're blaming the fans for a lack of disc drive?
For sure 😂 people get proper aggy. It's fine to have criticisms but people don't seem to be able to engage in critical thinking to start with.
@@joefawley9264 Thanks for illustrating my point perfectly
@@joefawley9264I think he is just referring to generalisations. Not specific comments about the lack of a drive. For me, when I look at when games on the standard PS5 I have, compared to the £700 pro console with no drive, no way to stand it up, not that huge of an overall improvement visually.
Also, I noticed your were in another comments section on this video. Lack of Xbox sales someone mentioned compared to ps5 selling and Xbox just sits on the shelves. Well the pro is discounted already in four major retailers. I think by about £50. But discounts on a new piece of hardware suggests they ain’t flying off the shelves like a user you engaged with.
I’m not a collector of discs and like the idea of digital in some ways. But unlike having the physical disc, we never own it. And Sony are testing us out and want us fully digital, so we have to buy from their store only, and pay insane prices. On disc, I love that I have 20+ places that will stock that game for me, reducing price. Hell, I even wait until price has dropped in say 6 months, and major patches have released, then drop over to eBay for a used copy at used prices!. All the best!
If something exists people will complain about it. Humans will find a way.
i don't wanna be a console in alex' house, imagine feeling like the least favorite child all the time.
Bro kkkkkkkk Exactly this. I treat my gaming laptop this way. It is too weak to be a gaming anything, and it is too heavy to be a fuckin laptop. It ends up being a useless piece of hardware that becomes a sore to take around
"Your only use is to be compared to your siblings, and also you take up too much space."
Now that is funny😂
@@pedro.alcatramy gaming laptop has been relegated to music production lmao. Now it mostly acts as a paperweight😂
Df need to hire one of the many educated community managers who are now out of work and have the education to make more sense than the knuckle-dragging explanation(s) they give of everything. It cracks me up how they can bullshit so long about topics they only know the buzzwords about. I take their explanations to mean nothing. It's like when a secretary for a doctor has to take vocabulary courses to become familiar with terms they do not understand so they can spell them faster when typing reports from dictaphone audio.
They need to do better. They are the laughing stock of every other engineer I know.
Speaking on Project Amethyst I found it surprising Mark Cerny reiterated it is not a Playstation Proprietary initiative but meant to further the Raytracing and Machine Learning of all AMD hardware the same approach Microsoft uses with AMD and their custom silicon team trying to create an industry standard which will help them advance much faster and farther
We don't know whether Microsoft will use AMD for their next Xbox (Xbox 5). If they do, it would be strange if Microsoft got Sony tech into Xbox via AMD.
@@cube2foxMeh. Sony got a whole bunch of features in PlayStation thanks to Microsoft DirectX features that ended up being ported to Vulkan and other APIs/SDKs. It's how tech works.
@@cube2foxGood job there won't be a next Xbox then and before you say "but they said" let me remind you they also said it would only be 4 games.
@cube2fox yeah we can't think about it as Sony getting Microsoft tech in their Playstation or Vice Versa they are architecting future silicon and have done it this way for generations now for example the Ray tracing standard in DirectX Nvidia innovated the hardware and Microsoft had to meet them with the software engineering to enable it what I found interesting was how Cerny talked about their project openly these types of collaborations are usually pretty secret even if they're open source
@@cube2foxI mean I wouldn't think they'd be part of the second part and get the models directly, but it wouldn't be far fetched if they got some of those hardware features. Or they got something of it if some stuff was made open source. In the end both Microsoft and Sony always profit from another bringing new innovations into the market, whether it seems natural or not. I don't think Sony will make their "enhanced ML architecture" their selling point, they all sell based on the software running on top of it, their own unique integrations of the technology (like PSSR) and of course their games. For the base hardware features like storage, CPU, GPU and RT they're always pretty close (as evident with the PS5 and XSX), it's how you use it that matters.
Glad to see Dana Carvey back.
CHOPPIN BROCCOLI
@@WheeledHamster we fear change
Excellent.
Party on Garth!... i guess.
If you're gonna spew, spew into this!!!
Just had a extremely clever guy give us a talk and all I see in the comments are keybored experts questioning and bashing everything he's presented 🤦 gaming nowadays is rife with miserable and toxic people and it's making this hobby un fun 😢
@@froggydarren yup, not allowed to enjoy anything anymore. Misery loves company.
An unfortunate day in age we're living in nowadays.
Unfun for those weirdos...IM HAVING A BLAST!
gamers grow old and bitter lol
15 or 20 years ago the internet was in its infancy and only a very few people had internet access. You had few annoying people but always below 10% the problem now is that the internet is accessible to everyone so you geta n accurate representation of society. It always sucked but they were miserable at home or limited to their neighborhood. Not anymore, and theyre emboldened because theyre away from immediate physical punishment.
Christmas came early!
Was not expecting this series of Mark Cerny deep dive goodness today. I love this stuff.
Congratulations. The legend Mark Cerny himself quoted you guys in an official Sony PlayStation Video.
I take off my hat and bow.
...after all these PS5 pro exclusive contracts.
...with Sony.
Why?
🙄@@Deckeable
what quote?
Make more disc drives!!!
Its been sold out Australia wide for months!
Jumped into the PS5 generation with the Pro and i'm having an absolute BLAST! with it 💯
We're objectively seeing some really cool and clever tech implementation where offerings matches and even exceeds $700 price tag and ofc, DF's discussion around it but some people in this comment section add nothing but childish jokes, or petty comments to feel better whatever they own over PS5 Pro.
People have no idea what is on the horizon. AI graphics will completely dominate the industry. We have only just seen the start of this revolution. Look at Nvidia's latest neural rendering. Which will allow us to have film level assets in a game running in real time. It is absolutely outstanding what is even achievable today, the next few years are going to be a wild ride.
You sound like anyone would be jealous of not owning a PS5 Pro, or feel like they're missing out on anything particularly interesting. Trust me, nobody feels that way lmao.
@@ShadowMan64572 if someone doesn't think not owning most powerful Console currently available is not missing out yet takes time and energy to clown on it then the issue is even bigger than jealousy!
700$ with disc drive and vertical stand would be expensive but fair. Disc drive unit cost is no more than 25$. In Europe price is 120€ premium for already more expensive than tax difference price of 800€. Sony is ripping people off double with Pro. If they really had to make it 700$ for cost reasons, they could make it 750$ with dics drive and still earn more per unit but that would mean no second raund from stupid expensive add-on. Complaining before buying is definetly more constructive for consumer since otherwise winner is Corpo who already got your money.
@@ShayONFarsi It's 2024. "Most powerful console" means nothing. What's the PS5 going to do that PCs can't? Unique fog and rain effects NO other platform could do like in the PS2 days?
Lol, it's just a 8/10 PC, deal with it.
The future looks bright. Also, you're welcome PS5 Pro haters, it's because of ppl like me, the PS6 is gonna be where it's at.
@@JeannieLove hopefully it has a disc drive.
Spoken like a true Beta-Tester 👍🏾
@freddywayne like that's a bad thing
Nah the PS5 Pro is a scam.
@@JeannieLove - 🤭 Don't feel bad. I was a beta-tester for the Xbox One X. At least Sony isn't telling you guys what you are after they've discontinued the console. Shame on you Microsoft. 🤨
9:18 Yes, they added HW stack management in RDNA3. See section 12.5.3, "DS Stack Operations for Ray Tracing" of the "RDNA3 Instruction Set Architecture: Reference Guide".
There's also an extra tunable for the box-sorting part of the intersection test, allowing you to pick if you want the closest hit, largest box or a mid-point. Each is useful in different scenarios (shadows vs reflections for instance).
I happen to know there's some discussion of this by Arseny Kapoulkine in his "niagara: Tracing rays faster" stream (see the RT on RDNA / RDNA3 sections of said video).
from what he said it seems intel and nvidia are only should be able to give proper pathtracing performance , amd doesnt have discrete RT core??? like it still runs on shading units is it what is being told?
@@bmqww223 AMD has discrete RT cores, it doesn't run on shading units (not at list on RDNA3). The difference is that AMD usses a unified pipeline for RT cores and shaders which needs a different approach to scheduling and intersection calculations. Path Tracing right now is just a Beta running on a Nvidia framework...so it is really thought for Nvidia hardware and Nvidia's approach. There is no standard for path tracing...it's like trying to run Physix on non-Physix hardware: damaged on purpose. But havok tought us that you can have valid phisics in game without the need for Physix (as impressive as Phisix was). AMD will catch up, Intel maybe, if they continue with their ARC plan. Right now no ARC card can run Path Tracing in a decent way, the juice is not there...
With the close collaboration between Sony and AMD the core question for me is: how does Microsoft fit into the picture? They are also on the AMD train. If AMD GPUs will be using Sony technology for their future upscaling solution, will the next Xbox end up with Sony tech inside?! Or is this a sign that Microsoft is moving away from AMD?
check the last 10 years..........microsoft DOES NOT FIT into the pictures.....they are going 3rd party (they bacisly are 3rd party now) and mark said that the amystest is not just a playstion exclusive colab (i think the point is to dethrown nivida and as long as ppl are useing amd hardware they dont care) but this also goes to my inintal point.........sony prob almost and proby DO have an agreement with microsft to have them exit the console space(if you ask me it was during the abk deal as a way to let micosoft get abk with the agreement they will take steps to laeave hardware and go 3rd party)
but everything microsoft has done since the abk deal was telling there player base that "everything is an xbox" and actively working to get there base off of the console and on pc oro ps5....
They are not on the picture, MS is now mostly out of console business
Great work guys!
Great discussion.
I just keep thinking Mark Sony 😅
Great discussion folks.
After all this coverage, I still don't feel like I am missing out on anything with skipping the Pro and I would fall into the target audience. Lack of disc drive and price in my country was a bridge too far for me.
You didn't buy one, so clearly your not.
I did, and I'm glad I did.
You falls into the audience of no gives af whether you buy it or not😂
@densakai I'll let you beta test the PSSR upscaling model for $700 USD of your own money so it's actually ready when the PS6 launches
@@blazenfateto be fair, not too many people are going to admit it if they weren’t happy after spending $700+
@@blazenfatewell said 💯
Why is this video just coming out now when the pro has been out for a month and a half? I’m confused
You act like that amount of time is forever ago lol
It's essentially a commercial as PS5 Pro flopped pretty hard.
@@vulcantuminello1127 the ps5 pro has sold more than the ps4 pro in the same amount of time 50% more, and the pro was 19%of all ps5 sold last month..........
so stop hateing, its selling better than any mid gen refresh
@@vulcantuminello1127 Only in your mind did it flop. In reality it's been more successful than the PS4 Pro.
Here's some copium 🧃
@@aaronclay4665 "sold more than the ps4pro" is a very low bar😂
why is this coming in so late after launch???
Because the PS5 pro presentation they're talking about was only made public today
@@OnionMad poor sales most likely
Poor sales.
Drip drip drip drip.... New consoles are rare events, they want to milk every drop out of this as long as they can
Smells like desperation, like low black friday sales. My friends console had defect, textures flicker, you could see black triangles. About the current performance of ps5pro - I say embrace it. Skip stupid upscaler, go with fsr3.1.3 + fg - it insta fixes resolution and low fps problems. Use AI for gimmicks and new features. Release tech demos or beta releases that ommit costly QA process. Sony is too stupid to do community driven settings presets but there are other routes totally open and ready to use.
When you realize you have 110 Minutes worth of Mark Cerny Analysis published on your regular Wednesday
Am just happy I got another Mark Cerny ASMR
Sold my PS5 and 2 games for $450.00
Got a few gift cards for Christmas totalling up to $150.00
Snagged a disk drive at MSRP.
Purchased the PS5 Pro hassle free.
Best Christmas ever.
You are a week too early!
You don't believe that.
Waste of time and money.
Merry Christmas 🎄
I was very hesitant to buy my PS5 pro but when I finally pulled the trigger I didnt regret my decision with what I bought. As a serious everyday, every game, gamer, Im happy with the upgrade in every way... except where pssr or whatevers making a few games shimmer and its just a wait until they fix it like Avatar and some others. Like the pro update to Warhammer made a night and day improvement IMO. Also something great about Miles Morales this playthrough in on pro, my jaw is on the floor with graphical amazement. Get it for Christmas if your an everyday gamer and have money to also buy games... imagine spending 700 dollars on a call of duty machine. At least get the Extra pass for an enormous library to play this thing. Of coarse it could be better but it is what it is and its giving me what ps4 pro gave us and more.
Loved it. Thank you, teacher Cerny.
Not sure about anyone else but Im seeing great improvements across the board over my older tech Launch PS5. Can't wait for GTA6! Great video for getting the full tech upgrade details.
same
When ever i hear the big three i just remembered.... Its just big me ....
Im starting to believe if you lived in the advent of technology from the 80s till the 2010 cusp, you appreciate most upgrades and youre willing to settle. Its the god forsaken generation that came after the fact that just shits and pisses over any little thing, any news article they read, and any little fumbling they personally do.
PS5 pro might be worth it if it was same price as the 4 year old PS5 which hasn't gone down in price.
Not a single utterance of the words "PS5 professional". Did Cerny ask you to stop calling it that?
I guess you didn't watch carefully, Rich did say "PS5 professional".
why would cerny tell them to stop calling it that.........thats what the PRO in ps5 pro stands for..............
John isn't there. John was the one who likes calling it Professional.
It's crazy Sony had the coconuts to try and make their own ML upscaler in a relatively short time.
He looks like the church lady the older he gets "Well isn't that special"
If you have been keeping up with Digital Foundry and have knowledge about technology. The PS5 Pro is a scam.
Pretty fascinating presentation especially the Machine Learning and Architecture segments and Cernys reasoning of Foregoing RDNA 3 for the base architecture do to backward compatibility reasons which raises some interesting questions for the future PS6 and which parts of the newer tech they will go with Sonys always been good at divining which technologies will best benefit their devs overall
Did they ask why the two dollar vertical stand is not included?
because they added a free horizontal stand? dick move? maybe, but the ps5 also didnt have a horozontal stand either... it just layed flat,
@@aeneas116116 Mark Cerny is the wrong guy to ask, he just deals with tech. It's up to Hideaki Nishino, who replaced Jim Ryan as the head of business at Sony Interactive.
I think of Wayne's world every time I see him
100% of the time for me too 😂
rastarization mon
I wouldn't be surprised if the PS and AMD partnership leads to AMD using PSSR as their ML Upscaler for PC GPUs.
I think it'd be beneficial to work together rather than individually working on ANOTHER Upscaler on the pile.
Why would anyone use PSSR when it looks like ass and DLSS is much better… As a PC gamer I have zero interest in PSSR. It’s expensive and looks like crap.
@@luism8130DLSS also looked like crap at first, maybe PSSR has more headroom for improvement compared to what AMD is doing for FSR3. And it's weird that Sony and AMD are making a partnership just to develop different AI-based upscalers (FSR4 and PSSR). I also think it would make more sense to join efforts on a single solution.
No, they have invested in FSR
So will the next Xbox have PSSR as well? 🤔
@@cube2fox there wont be a next xbox..........if you are an xbox users get out now, just buy a playstion 5 pro, keep your xbox and play ur library games on ur xbox, but buy new games on the pro, thats what my friends did.
Actually "Spectral" can make sense:
1) related to colors of a spectrum, here the AI stuff is adding new image data, and each pixel is made of 3 color components, so basically the job of the AI is to find the right colors for every pixel;
2) related to ghosts, here the AI is almost "inventing" new data, that are not the real data that was computed but something else, like a ghost... and there's even ghosting which of course everyone is trying to eliminate.
Like my PS5 Pro i have always been a console gamer. Sometimes, i questioned why i spent so much on building a 4090 gaming PC, which i hardly get time to use.
That must be really hard for you.
What a flex.
My 3080ti machine may be the last PC I bother with for a long time.
Consoles caught up and give exactly what I want in a much easier to use and more optimized package.
Outside of exclusives like some MMOs I may be done.
Is your PC sitting next to the PS5, being connected to your TV? I've noticed that it makes a huge difference. It's still a bit less comfortable than a console thanks to the usual PC quirks, but it's almost there when done right, and the end result in terms of performance and image quality is much appreciated.
@@NeovanGoth I usually bring my P25 Pro and Series X to my desk and take advantage of my much better monitor. And depending on the game plug in my mouse and keyboard.
Consoles can give me the experience they PC has with almost now hassle anymore. No battling with drivers and settings and the image quality (depending on developer and game) really isn’t much less.
There was a generation when the jump was incredible, but not any longer.
I’m also a firm believer that ray tracing is not worth the expense and completely over hyped and under delivered.
Oliver, well done Sir. Great interview.
As a ps5 pro buyer I've been extremely underwhelmed. Yes stellar blade looks better, but I honestly think ff7 rebirth still looks awful outside of cutscenes. The skin shading makes the characters look terrible during gameplay in my opinion, and it still looks flat on pro. I bought from costco and used my drive my my base slim model, and I'll be returning the pro in a couple weeks.
Of course you did. And now waste time putting that wonderful comment. Really smart.
@davidvillamarin-lj2pf why is it so hard to believe? I returned mine to Amazon (after 3 weeks) for similar reasons. If I could attach a screen shot of my Amazon return, I would. It just isn't worth the £700 price tag. The best looking games I seen on it were the Horizon games. The downside being the games aren't very good.
In a nutshell, the games are almost fidelity mode at 60fps, when 60fps is available. It's a nice improvement, but nowhere the jump the previous mid-gen consoles were. I may pick one up again when GTA 6 releases, but only if it's cheaper. The price is a disgrace for the minimal improvements. Even the packaging doesn't reflect the price (it's the same cheap ass cartons used in a PS5).
Maybe with the hardware improvements on PS6 they can run a PlayStation 3 emulator 🤔
pssr is still in beta otherwise ps5 pro would have been worth it , pssr needs time
If it could be switched off by choice within the system software it would be great.
I’m so confused by this video. Talking about the PS5 Pro as if it was still this thing that is unknown or theoretical.
Even if this was filmed prior to the Pro’s launch, this video should not have been released with old and outdated discussion. Especially when some of the theoretical turned out to be a giant fart noise.
Garth algar has aged well 😂❤
Still wondering why the AI units are not also used for more natural enemy behavior AI, like an „offline Sophy“ for GT7.
THIS would create a leap in gaming!
This would possibly require an NPU, which the PS5 Pro doesn't have. Upscaling runs on relatively small CNNs which don't require a full NPU.
That is being worked on. ML machines are being used for more dynamic enemy AI. It'll take years for proper development though. You might see a very early basic version of it on the PS6.
I think animation is the big next step for ML. It's really difficult to get natural movements in games even with mocap technology. Like in sport games, athletes actually look like athletes until they start moving, then everything just looks robotic.
It's probably because ML enemy AI would take sizeable ressources off the GPU, and the industry is still too focussed on maxing graphics.
I have a PC and PS5 Pro and I play on my PS5 Pro. Is there something wrong with me? Everyone keeps telling me to get a PC instead but I play my Pro more.
Just play on whatever you like. Freaks who care about your preference don't matter
I know for a FACT that my PC is far more powerful than any of the people who cry that people should get a PC and I still wanted and could afford a Pro so I purchased one....
Some people seem to have a hard time grasping that when you live in adult world and have an adult level career/job that isn't "cashier" part time and you spend 12-14hrs working on a PC that playing games on a PC might just feel like work, so you play games on a console to avoid that
You’re old dude prob in your 30s so the console market is for you
Gta 6 mate we all ready with the pro
I’ll take things that never happened for $500 Alex.
Not even with such a cool talk some can't leave out the console war. There isn't any. It's over. It's not that hard to understand. Everything is coming to the ps5 and pro. Everything is an xbox.
Almost correct, except it's "everything is coming to PC".
Noisy Upscaling and shimmering raytracing guys! The tomorrow's tech today!
I noticed the shimmering in games like Alan Wake 2 without using PSSR and it's still there with FSR3. PSSR is not mature yet but I think it will get there in time. Hopefully soon of course but overall I thin the dev's are concentrating on other ares of their game but dropping the resolution which to me really does display the faults with upscaling tech.
You are right. That said some games look fantastic on the Pro. It’s the lighting that really makes games shine. But yeah PSSR at this point is massively disappointing.
P.F. PlayStation Foundry.
what is the point of outputting 4k if the internal resolution is so low that it shimmers more than native 1080p?
Output resolution is not the same as native resolution and upscaled resolution. Being able to support an image being displayed at 4K is not the same as running a game at native 4K. If you believe Output resolution is pointless because the device does not have the power to utilize it in games. Look at the Nintendo Switch. Games are pixilated, blurry and have a Vaseline effect on most 4k TV’s due to its lack of 4k output.
Does this guy not realize he looks exactly like Dana Carvey?
Why not confront them with all the shimmering and flickering issues with pssr...
The interview was done several weeks ago
Which is present in only a few games. Some people seem to have memory-holed how DLSS also had some issues when it was new.
@@sunman2566GT7 have shimmering to
@@sunman2566 not only some issues, DLSS was shit and basically unuseable on launch in 2018 and only got decent with the 3000 series in late 2020
In the interview Cerny acknowledged that they are aware of the issues of the lower res upscaling with PSSR and that they'll continue to work on and improve the technology but it's ultimately up to the developers if they want to implement newer versions of PSSR.
For consoles to ever get more powerful they need to be like 8 inches tall. With same width. Add more cooling and much more powerful parts. Slap a 999.00 price tag on them and sold. That’s nothing compared to the price of a pc. I would pay 1200 for a bigger more powerful console
If you are wondering how smart he is: _Cerny left UC Berkley at 17 to join Atari and later Sega in the 80s, then Crystal Dynamics and Universal Games in the 90s. He never finished college._
Elon musk was a college drop out.
Many of the greatest entrepreneurs of today dropped out of college, it doesn't reflect how smart someone is, I would argue it's quite the opposite.
Cerny is a million times smarter then you with real accomplishments and wealth, and you? Some broke UA-cam commenter that lives at home with Mommy still, stay in your lane kid, until you release a console, don't speak.
😬
@@Boss_Fight_Index_muki he's smart enough that he's the architect for PlayStation Vita, PS4 & PS5 & PS5 PRO.
That smart. Mind you, Elon musk is also a college drop out and he's a modern day Genius.
You are clueless.
@@LegacyRap7777 _...he transferred to the University of Pennsylvania, where he studied until 1995. Although Musk has said that he earned his degrees in 1995, the University of Pennsylvania did not award them until 1997 - a Bachelor of Arts in physics and a Bachelor of Science in economics from the university's Wharton School._ -Wikipedia
Do your research.
@Boss_Fight_Index_muki if you're not aware of the long list of entrepreneurs that dropped out of college and are billionaires today you are absolutely more clueless then I could have ever imagined
Commented this on the original PS5 Pro video, somone give me a cookie 😂:
DF, PS5P is 4nm TSMC. And based on the results you're getting I'm not convinced the raster pipeline is anything more than a die shrunk RDNA1/2 with 60 CU instead of 36. No RDNA3/4 raster tech here, I think the 16.7TF number is generous if anything. This is more in line with 3070/6750TX performance than 6800. Bit of a let down that.
Facts tests have been done and the PS5 Pro performs like a 4060ti 16gb. Which in some cases is slower than a 3070.
The future of gaming is fetch quests. Always three items. Graphics can look great but essentially it's fetch quests.
Stop playing western AAA garbage. Play real video games. Go play Trepang2. Or Death May Die. Or one of the great games coming out of China these days.
Wow , SONY RELEASE A GOOD AAA FIRST PARTY GAME TO MAKE US CARE!
What the base machine should've been from the beginning
I know for sure the ps5 pro was made to play naughty dogs next game intergalactic , it’s obvious now
More like today's tech available tomorrow.
more like cry more
Hopefully you can afford one
All of this tech is nearly a decade old lol. Console owners getting scammed again, welcome to the present guys. Now fork over $700 😂
digital foundry game look better on ps5 pro than original ps5
All I could think about was how much Mike looks like Arnold Rimmer.
At 36 years old I've only now realised why he was called Rimmer. Very fitting
I think he looks very much like Garth (Dana Carvey) from Wayne's World. Edit: Red Dwarf is very funny and I liked it since I was a teen. I didn't know his name was Arnold, so I sort of guessed it was that guy from Red Dwarf then knew a bit more when HulksMistress mentioned that he was called Rimmer (because it still could have meant about why Mark Cerny was called Rimmer).
@@FoxUnitNell I agree that Mark looks like Dana, but I was talking about Mike from Insomniac.
Thank you Cerny!
Im stunned that after several hours of information provided to us by DF, we still have these people in the comments saying 🤓 series x is better, and 🤓 it's not enough of an improvement. I mean, have you not been listening, or are you just not understanding? 🙄😑🫣
Miss Alex's Christmas cap. 😁
At £700, the improvements are not worth it. PS5 Pro isn't the jump in quality the previous mid-gen consoles produced. Nowhere near. Diminishing returns are real. People are going to call me a liar, coz it will hurt their feelings. If I could attach a screen shot of my Amazon return, I would. I held onto it for 3 weeks, but was underwhelmed. I was playing on a 65" LG OLED, before anyone blames my TV.
The trouble is, you've seen the graphics before, if you've tried fidelity mode. So it's almost fidelity mode at 60fps. That's great for those who appreciate the higher fidelity at 60fps. But it's far from a game changer.
PSSR is the biggest disappointment. It says it all the Horizon games look best, and don't even use PSSR. Overall, improvements are minimal and not worth the price tag. It is also notably louder than a regular PS5, which inexplicably hasn't been mentioned by reviewers.
Am i the only one unimpressed by console raytracing? I actually prefer it turned off in all the games ive tried. I dont understand the hype.
It's really just a marketing tool at this point--even on PC it isn't always worth the performance loss and the weird shimmering reflections and other artefacting common with RT. I have a high end PC with a 4080 super so I'm not just talking out my ass, I've tried all the 'best examples of RTX' and rarely do I actually use RT. Most modern games don't even bother rendering mirrors in bathrooms and stuff, which we saw in games over 20 years ago like Deus Ex 1 and MGS2, so unless you're playing a game with an abnormally high amount of glass surfaces (modern spiderman games, mirrors edge catalyst... maybe 1 or 2 more at most) or puddles (literally Cyberpunk and... SH2R has some puddles.... Stalker 2 is years away from being optimized but it has puddles... that's about it lol) you really aren't missing much without RT.
We have like 5% as many games as were released in the 2000s where we had 50+ amazing masterpieces yearly and tons of GTA competitors which today would have reflective cars. There's uhh.. Watch Dogs which is well, definitely a Ubisoft game, and a now 11 year old GTA, anddd uhhh, that's it lol.
I loved it in Spiderman and R&C Rift apart, the reflections at least (RT performance modes so still 60fps). Spiderman looks much better with reflective skyscrapers. The shadows and lighting I don't really care about vs other methods.
@g2jxGhF5G8z1gL7S thanks for sharing. I'm thinking about building a good PC with a GPU pre AI and RT so I can cling to my combustion engine lol. Like you said, as long as it can run RDR2 and GTA era I should be good for another decade at this rate.
Nerds need it. I don’t get it either.
@@tm0054 I tried it in miles morales and Rift and prefered standard performance lol to each his own I guess
What nanometres the pro is ?
6nm, uses the same node process of the 'Slim'
@@or1on89lies everywhere... It's TSMC's 5nm node.
We do not want GRAPHICS! We want Finished games and Good games!
They’re still doing remaster with invisible wall …
No one complains 🤔
Nah, advances in consoles and PC are mostly about graphics and the reason people upgrade is mostly graphics.
Please stop crying
The people who make the console don’t make the games…
Who is "we"?
When the game is very responsive and there is a stick deadzone setting (like in Avatar) I like a stable 30fps mode. It plays well with my SONY TV frame generation.🌌💟
Really been loving my PS5 Pro tbh. It differs from title to title but the likes of Stella Blade and FFXVII Rebirth are a night and day difference to the base model. Only thing I dislike is that it’s slightly louder than my old ps5 but that’s a given I guess
I don't see much of a difference from graphics mode.
@ on which game, Stella Blade? In Pro mode with HFR on I’m getting 80fps with an image that may as well be native 4k. You need the right TV
@@bollywongaloid the guy who replied to you doesn't actually have a Pro, so they're going off of YT video comparisons and still shots.
Seeing the console in motion on a 4k 120hz TV is pretty eye-opening with what it can deliver.
@@FungeHucker That guy is trolling anyone who posts anything positive, so yeah, you're right
@@bollywongaloidFF7 offers a huge upgrade, Stellar Blade doesnt. The Pro mode looks almost the same as the old balanced mode on my LG G4.
I own the Pro and I feel Sony are just beta testing PSSR in preparation for the PS6 launch. I hope PSSR improves on the pro up until the launch of the PS6 as I'm feeling pretty much ripped off right now.
I didn't expect to see Garth, from Wayne's World, talking about PS5's tecnology. Fascinating
No way.
Way!
@@Sipu79 no way.
Rock On, Garth!
I'm hoping when PS6 comes out, they make the PSVR3 with at least 3440 by 3440 pixel per eye and a field of view of at least 160°
I mean, all that sounds nice, but I'd be happy with eliminating reprojection altogether.
Who cares if it's not backwards compatible again? Would buy a new HMD with HW IPD adjustment if it had BC to PSVR1, but apparently the single digit manmonths of engineer time for a BC layer is too much to ask...
Yesterdays tech today
Seems like you completely missed the point of Cerny's presentation.
Yeah I'd hardly call machine learning-based upscaling "tomorrow's tech" considering how long DLSS has been around.
@@mateusbarao1761 yes but this is the first time for a console
par for the course for consoles as rich would say. they made a big huff and puff about the SSD when PCs were using them a decade ago.
🤣
PSVR?
Dead platform apparently. Hence the large discounts on headsets.
@@RandyAugustus vr is a niche platform all around, its not dead or alive, its just niche untill its not
Did you ask about the lack of a disc drive in an 700 console?
I dont think im sold on all of this software base upscalling as of now look at Gen 9 games natively and then Gen 8 games running Gen 9 hardware natively and PS4 games look good running Native 4k/60 then games running low resolutions(720p and lower) then upscaled they dont look sharp im just wondering why this isnt being talk about here.
The hardware need to have the power to push true true 4k/60 with ray tracing as of now till A.I. really take off and more affordable on console. The Xbox One X came the closes to run games Native 4k/30 and some at 60.
Tomorrow's tech today?😂 That would be the upcoming 50 series GPUs and, maybe to see what AMD has with their 8000 series. PS5 Pro is powerful but get real lol. It's between a 4060 - 4060 Ti.
PS5 pro is literally a dusty Radeon 6800. I was going to give it more credit but they literally confirmed it was RDNA 2.0 😂
@luism8130 Dusty 6800 I like that😂
So in essence if Cerny didnt/couldn't make the PS5 PRO GPU RDNA3 because of compatibility issues then how will Sony utilize AMD UDNA with the PS6???? Llike former Sony exec Shawn Layden said, TFLOP war is over. UDNA in might be not a big TFlop upgrade but the GPU pipeline for CNN, memory bandwidth and ML and such will be more of the upgrade for graphics. Interesting to see where Cerny is going with this.
For the Price, they've should have included a Disc Drive. 800 is crazy for an all digital console...
OR things could just be priced at what they are and not at Welfare or Coupon day levels, especially when its junk for a hobby that is a WANT in life and not something that anyone NEEDS to survive daily life.
I've had a disc drive attached to my Pro since day 1 because I can afford it so I purchased it.
Parrots, everywhere.
Original thoughts, nowhere.
We need some AI integration with the actual games, more detailed worlds, better NPCs, more stuff on screen , not just more shiny and sharp pixels
3D V-Cache i hope will be a huge Thing on the PS6. Its obviously VERY good if you can use it which is most Games. 2 big Caches on CPU and GPU combined with high Bandwith (VRAM) Lanes. Something like that seems like a great Idea that should not Cost insane Amounts of Money. At least not as much as an RTX 4080+. Could make a really good new Generation imo. Everything you do with that Console should be better.
But i have no Idea what they will do. Thats what i think would make Sense.
3D V cache is impossible on an APU because that tremendous amount of cache can’t fit on that die space. Along with the cost and heat it generates as well. There is a reason why APU’s have significantly less L3 cache compared to CPU’s.
Everything you do with a console is not better. Consoles are meant to be small efficient machines built for affordability. They are always limited in memory, bandwidth, GPU and CPU power. So stop being delusional.
I hope they find a cheaper solution for HBM2 instead of GDDR. That way loading 4k textures will be a much faster and everything can run on 120 4K.
Tomorrows tech? Isn’t dlss a few years old now?
ML is always improving
@ correct but pssr isn’t the future, that’s dlss and it’s already here.
DLSS 1.0 came out in February 2019
@@kotztotz3530 damn the future was 5 years ago?!
@@TheBean87 Almost 6!
Why get a PS5 Pro when you can just hold out for a PS6? actually just hold out for a PS6 Pro.... then again a PS7 isnt too long after that....
$40 of extra RAM on every GPU would solve most of the issues we have with upscaling nonsense. If developers could just run high quality textures all the time games would look great. Upscaling is muddying our games and adding in flicker and artifacts, just because GPU developers refuse to provide an appropriate amount of VRAM on cards.
$40 extra would give every card an extra 16GB of VRAM and no one would need upscalers.
is that right? interesting
@@Junior305able It wouldn't solve RT performance of course. But if every game could use really high fidelity textures on all tiers of GPU it would be great.
The problem about the disc drive isn't the price for me. It's the availability. Still can't buy except from people that ask outrageous prices
Gotta get it from Sony.
Should have at least asked about the missing disc drive, or is that not within your purview?
Ask what? They left out the drive to lower costs/increase their margin. We already know that.
missing? mine is attached to system i see it
It’s not missing though is it. It just doesn’t come with one, and you have the option to buy one separately.
The corporate future is always like that. I bet nvidia has a similar pitch for ray tracing back in 2018. Not being a kid with early adopter value anymore, the 5 series will be my first rt card. It was only two weeks ago that the number of games that really use rt that I want to play… ticked up to… a big *2* with Indiana jones. Yeah ai this sure. Yet devs will just keep using the basic rasterisation hardware. Like with rt…
Next time ask why they used software vrr and why the ps5 pro lacks dolby vision?
What you doing here fanboy?
everything is good until you see sony can't keep prices low, so you might as well get a decent GPU and skip dealing with their woes and paywall for online playing
But then we’d have to deal with hackers on every multiplayer game
@@Ardonous458Never saw one
@@Crimsongz cap..........they just put denuvo in all games for fun right?
stop the cap, pc gamers are hella cheaters
and yea, they need to stop with tthe "pay for play online" because HALF of the games you dnot have to pay to play online
any game that is FREE 2 PLAY is free to play online(you have to be online to play the game so you can play it without paying for it) if you have a sub to a game its free to play online also ( like mmos ) the only games you STILL need to pay to play online are the single palyer games with multipplayer function like elden ring, black ops 6 ect ect you know all the games you pay 70 bucks for.........
you be suprised how many games you dont have to pay to play online for anymore. and ps+ gives you 3 or 4 free games a month to download that you can play as long as you have a sub (i have over 200 games ) so for 150 bucks the base 1 year cost of ps+ you get at lest 3 games a month for free each month( you dont chose the games) so thats 36 games a year that means you pay 4 bucks and 10 cent per game if you download all of the games that year 150/36
its over blown, that ppl cry about it the cost of ps+ is liek 11 bucks or 12bucks a month the cost of a large coffie from starbucks or a quarter pounder meal from fast food.
if any of that is keeping ppl from gaming on console ....................then you need to stop gaming on anything and get your money right
@ there are cheats on console, walmart sells an attachment for the controller that uses scripts , or simply USB plugs that can load those scripts too
Talk all you want about the power of the PS5 pro while I play PS1 and PS2 games on a SteamDeck. Graphics are overrated!
Maybe.
33TF DENIED!
Xbox fanboy DETECTED!
More like rip off detected
It’s like Apple selling iPhone 16’s with no Apple Intelligence 😂😂
Really cool stuff
I miss Ken Kutaragi. Innovation in hardware, something to set you apart from the competition. Everyone's saying: Oh...... Xbox lost the console wars..... On the contrary. Xbox won! They got Sony to give up their edge and follow Microsoft down their rabbit hole. PlayStation was like Apple at one time, I would only imagine Kutaragi either thought like Jobs or idolized Jobs because Sonys proprietary tech set them apart and was a threat to Microsoft, actually made them feared and respected. Sound familiar to another industry leader? What Xbox got Sony to do was give up all of that and use a PC-based architecture type. What has that done today? Well, you're about to see it. With recent interviews done with Shawn Layden, HE says consoles are dead. Xbox has gotten PlayStation to port games to PC. Sony must think they're slick to stay side-by-side with Xbox by using Steam or Epic Games launcher BUT, Xbox is already thinking ahead trying to get those launchers to work on their current and future hardware to get what Phil Spencer always wanted: GOD OF WAR ON AN XBOX. If he can't get PlayStation to do it willingly, he's gonna find a roundabout way to do it, assuming Jim Ryan was honest about what really happened with MLB, I have a sneaky suspicion Phil Spencer had something to do with that whining and crying that got MLB to tell Sony OR ELSE, because immediately MLB told Sony how the game industry is run, no body came to their assistance to defend the gaming industry and how things are done, and wouldn't you know it, The Show ended up immediately for free on Xbox's console through Game Pass.
Look at Nintendo, though. Standing STRONG, showing confidence. Xbox has no choice, they blew all that money on Activision WAY OVER PAYING to secure what they feared could be snakes out from underneath them and who ended paying the price for that? Microsoft? No way, they shifted the price of that to the same they always do, the consumers. While Nintendo is standing firm, not a port to a competing console in sight, as a consumer, that catches my eye, it grabs my interest and yells in my face "LISTEN TO ME!" Do I want an Xbox, a PlayStation or a Nintendo Switch 2 at that point? I want a console that's confident, Nintendo is confident in their brand, I mean what does Sony or Xbox lose of the industry crashes? Xbox goes back to Office softwareware. Sony, back to everything electronics, music, and movies, and now anime. But Nintendo? Nintendo has the most to lose, they lose, they're going back to making playing cards and board games which tells me one thing: IF NINTENDO ISNT WORRIED AND PANICING POETING GAMES TO PC AND OTHER COMPETITION, why should Sony whose nice and comfortable? We know why Xbox is, theyve dug themselves into a whole they can't dig themselves out of, they've lost consumer trust which makes you wonder why Sony is sitting in the middle looking both ways.
And that's precisely my point. Under Kutaragi, PlayStation was innovative. THEY were the industry leader now, now they're the follower, no genius minds at work
I might be stuck in the past, but it's just such a shame to see all these advancements, big and small and not using them for older titles. Like Bloodborne and Gravity Rush 2, both still at 30 fps. Especially GR2 with all of its physics simulation would look amazing at higher framerate. I'd like to see Sony utilize their hardware on their software more thoroughly.
Right now it feels like bandaid solutions to problems that might have not even needed to exist in the first place, if more care went into development and planning of the games.
This is completely on the developers and not Sony. Even if they delivered a PS5 Pro with performance better than an RTX 4090, you'd still be seeing games that run at 1080p 30fps because many developers can't be bothered to update their games and increase resolution/framerate. Or they're so incompetent they can't get the game to a stable place even on PS5 Pro hardware (Elden Ring).
It's why I ultimately think PC is the better platform. Optimization might be worse, and aging hardware will be noticeable after a while, but atleast you have full control over the games you play. I find it irritating that I can play Elden Ring at 60fps on my RTX 2070, but the more powerful consoles (Series X, PS5 and PS5 Pro) cannot, due to poor graphics/resolution configurations on FromSoftware's end.
The issue with Bloodborne is that FromSoft almost never goes back and works on older console versions of games and the only reason games like DS3 and Sekiro run at 60fps is because they were patched for the last gen mid-generation refreshes to have an unlocked framerate. Sony also owns or at least co-owns the IP but since FromSoft made the game means they'd have to be the ones to patch it, it was also co-developed by Japan Studio which Sony closed down every dev under that label except for Team Asobi who made Astro Bot, so there's like nobody who could patch it currently.
It's also possible they don't wanna patch it because Bluepoint could be remastering/remaking the game, and I know not everyone liked the direction they took with the art style in Demon's Souls but Sony knows they'd lose sales on a remake if they just released a 60fps patch for the base game because everyone is asking for just that.
@@unnoticedhero1 Another reason it may not have been patched is because, since FS is no longer working with Sony, are not obligated to. So why would they. Especially as I believe they've stated they did not have a great time working under Sony (may be wrong).
Unfortunately, that aspect is up the devs. And super unfortunately, Japan Studio, who made Gravity Rush and helped with bloodbourne, got closed down (remaments of them live on with Team Aosobi).
While FromSoftware did make Bloodbourne, it is owned by Sony. And since they don't work with them anymore, have no obligation to.
I imagine though Bloodbourne will get a remaster like Demon Soul one day. (Probably PS6 though, since Bluepoint is currently developing their very own IP).
@@ScyrousFX Had the same irritation you did with Elden Ring but for me, it's Red Dead 2. What pisses me off about that one is that it's just plain greed, because god knows friggin' _Rockstar_ could easily put out a High rez/60FPS patch for current gen, but they're probably holding off on it so as to sell "current gen" copies, most likely at full price as well. 😞