I think people often mis-judge how dangerous exercising or undertaking strenuous physical activities in high temperatures is. This was truly a bizarre and tragic case. Thank you Dr. grande for your perspective.
4 creatures d onot all die of heat stroke at the same time- the mother was only around the bend, probably getting ready to use the bathroom when something killed them all. it was not the heat- what a bunch of total bullshit. they would have known that right away instead of taking many MONTHS to come up with this insulting excuse.
@@mikeswiental4815 There have been a number of cases of people dying right next to with within sight and close distance to a water source that was muddy or otherwise didn't look safe. Like they were afraid of being poisoned, but died from lack of water instead.
As an avid hiker, there are a couple of things to always remember: Be prepared (Boy Scouts) and, unfortunately nature really doesn't care about your survival. Sad story. Happens in the Arizona desert every year. Don't worry about the water weight, it will get lighter.
I keep a few heavy duty, lawn and leaf bags, in my pack. They weigh nothing, and can serve as a rain/wind poncho, a dry place to sit/sleep, a rain/snow proof shelter (or part of a shelter), and a quick form of shade, if needed.
@@mainemermaid6596 Seriously? Just buy the damn poncho. You can get one that is very light weight and they are versatile having quick snaps, etc. and they come in easily seen colors (neon orange). Mine always came in handy, in a downpour, unsnapped it easily provided shelter for two. Two of them (my hiking companions also carried them) snapped together allowed you to make a tent. Leaf bags; Jeez Louise!
I once took my son (he was about 10 at the time) on a 9 mile loop trail that I had never done before. The trail was steep, rocky, and poorly marked, and about an hour in, I lost the trail for a while. I then slipped and smashed my shin on a rock, and a huge goose egg formed immediately. It hurt, and I was concerned about compartment syndrome, and for the first time ever in my life, I was concerned for my son's safety. I realized right then that though hiking is safe, it's certainly not totally safe. We had food and water and the weather was good. I bandaged my leg and found I could walk, and after a while it felt better. We found the trail and finished the hike (which took well over 6 hours), thankfully that first part was the hardest going. It turned out okay, but I have never forgotten those few minutes of fear. I am now MUCH pickier about knowing a trail before taking my kids on it. This video was a good reminder.
Bumped you leg and worried about about compartments syndrome. I only say that because I fell 30 ft and had bilaterally tibia fractures that resulted in double fasciotomies that was reason to worry. If you’re that concerned you shouldn’t be walking with you kid down trails ya don’t know. Sounds wreck less to me.
I live in Florida. I'm a Foreman of a construction crew. This is something I have to keep my eyes on, every summer. A lot of times, people won't notice the early signs of heat stroke. I have at least 1 guy on my crew, every summer, go thru this.
I used to work in steel construction/fabrication. I remember when we worked 100s of ft up everyone would become very quiet. Concentration and being aware of your environment is very important in dangerous situations
This kind of thing happens regularly in Australia, especially with overseas tourists. They drive through the outback in extreme heat, the car breaks down and they try to walk for help. Carry large amounts of water, and stay with your vehicle if you are ever in this situation. Tell the local cops about your plans before you leave.
Happens in Croatia almost every summer, when continental tourists see the nearby mountains from the beach and decide to go hiking on a whim literally in flip-flops carrying a small bottle of water. To them those peaks look closer and smaller than they are in reality so they heavily underestimate the effort. Flip-flop hikers inevitably get lost, succumb to exhaustion or somehow manage to find themselves off the path in some rough terrain and if they can get a signal call for help. The volunteer rescue teams are busy all summer. The weather conditions and harsh terrain make the helicopter rescue missions all the more difficult and risky.
They not only needed more water, they needed electrolytes in that water. I'm from that area and have hiked all over. Some visitors seem to think Yosemite is like Disneyland and have no idea how dangerous their behavior can be. Even experienced hikers go missing quite often. You don't mess with Mother Nature.
Even at Disneyland you need to stay hydrated in summer. Better not to go there in extremely hot weather. Only difference is they have numerous staff who will assist guests in trouble.
I’ve been to this town in California and could not for the life of me think bringing a baby on a Summers hike would be a good idea. Thank you for breaking this down. Sometimes people are just too confident and others put too much trust in them. What a sad story.
Inexperience: they were new from SF, where summer temps are way cooler. Also, CA had unusually high humidity this summer, which raised the heat index to death levels. I live in the CA desert and we had many heat deaths last summer during these humid spells, including deaths of several very experienced summer hikers.
People shouldn't bring dogs either but if I say that you can bet some clown will pipe in about it being OK because THEY bring their dogs proving to me they're irresponsible as well. I do like the stories when the people pass and the dog survives but in this case they failed the dog as well. 8 year old dog and a 1 year old baby. These guys were fools.
I feel bad for them obviously. A lot of times really smart people are lacking in the common sense category. You always should know full weather conditions and carry ample water, filtration systems, first aid and emergency rations. You never know what might happen.85 ounces of water for 3 people and a dog is crazy for a several hour hike. You also make a great point about only one container.
Yes, and neither one of them were from that area. It makes a big difference when you're acclimated to the heat. And it was so sad that they took their daughter. When he said that in the beginning of the story, I almost clicked it off.
@@kkheflin3 They set out really early before 8am when the temperature was only 75 degrees. Maybe they hoped to finish the hike before it got that hot....or as Dr Grande pointed out they may not have even checked the weather before they set out . I think this is plausible because if they had know it was going to be 107 they wouldn't have taken their child and their dog or even gone for a hike because nobody does that !
@dražen g I really think the most likely conclusion was dehyration. And how ridiculous to take a one year old on a "hike" in 100 degree weather. I am not "blaming' them for making such a serious error as they obviously were most likely just ignorant of how the heat would affect them. So tragic.
This case is still so bizarre to me because temperatures lower than that would have been dangerous to potentially fatal to a young child, they are not able to acclimate to different weather conditions the same way adults are so additional water and shade would have been necessary on a summer hike even in a milder climate. I’m also confused about the dog, animals typically run off when sick or injured but I have heard it was older so I guess that could explain it. Maybe it was leashed. The missing piece for me is the baby, how could two parents be that reckless in that many ways with their child? The time of day, the distance, the water, the shade, the temperature? A change to any of those could have saved them but they went out for an 8 mile hike late in the morning on a summer day in a desert climate unfamiliar with the trail, terrain and temperature? Without water? I don’t get it.
Dogs are even more vulnerable to extreme heat than humans... they get sick from it sooner than we do (especially when strenuous exercise is involved) and they can drop dead extremely quickly too. That is why if you walk your dog on a hot day and it starts to get tired and refuses to move you should be very careful, get them into shade and rested and hydrated quickly. If you force them to move it is bad.
@@SardonicALLY Yeah an older dog in direct sunlight not acclimated to desert conditions you would think would start showing signs of hyperthermia on the way down, before the owners were really feeling it. I live in Arizona, there’s no way in hell I’d walk my little dog during the summer but if I did he’d be laying down and refusing to move once it hit the 90s. The whole thing is bizarre to me, how they made it that far out without realizing how hot it was getting. How neither the dog or the baby made them question what they were doing and turn around.
I've done a bit of hiking with dogs and they need more water than I do, taking a 1 year old anywhere for 4 hours takes a lot of preparation, even if its visiting relatives, these people were dangerously stupid, even if they were calm the child would have been uncomfortable being carried around for that long, its sad what happened to them though
Your analysis is a good one. I lived in The Joshua Tree area for awhile. I can’t tell you how many times people would underestimate the heat issues and end up missing and sometimes be found in time and other times be found dead or not found at all. People underestimate the temperature when heading out if they are not very experienced regarding that particular climate. It is fairly sandy where they were and the sand reflects heat and adds substantially to the air temperature. When a couple was missing at Amboy Crater, one search party couldn’t even continue the search because the ground temperature was at 140 degrees and it was melting the specialized tires on their all terrain vehicles. I learned early on that I needed to get out to hike at sunrise in the summer and get back by 8am. And THAT was stretching it. This couple was used to the Bay Area hiking trails where the fog comes in and cools things off and the bay has a moderating effect on the temperature.
Your commentary about what you think happened and how their prior experience influenced their perception of the danger, was very refreshing and appropriate. Very insightful.
I'm very much an inside person, but my husband dragged me to Joshua Tree. We had the car close to any area we walked around, and brought a metric ton of water. He was very careful there, and I was shocked at how fast the temps rose! Very scary.
The note about the sand is so important. I just hiked White Sands in New Mexico. It was 62 degrees, but felt like 80. The sun reflects back up and you get hot quickly. The sand however was cold. It was interesting. But there were a couples of times I was just too hot. So anything warmer than 60 something and it would have been a big struggle.
What a senseless death, really sad. Adequate preparation and caution should never be underestimated while hiking. In situations like this, Mother Nature usually wins. This is certainly a cautionary tale for everyone. Thank you for the review Dr. Grande.❤️
We obviously need to up the warning factor of our naming system. I’m in favor of more extreme warnings like “Satan’s Butthole” or “You’re Gonna Die Valley”
I don't agree with places called "devil" being associated with danger, I mean I guess some could be. But Devil's is common and usually doesn't really have anything to do with dangers. It typically stems from folklore and native superstitions. Really close to me, we have Devil's Den, and it got that name due to the high amount of caves and the fact outlaws would hide in them. Thus, it was the Devil's Den. Nothing to actually do with them being "dangerous" but there is one cave called the Devil's Ice Box that gets really cold. :shrug:
I'm 35 and last year I went with my best friend on a short hike on a small section of the Appalachian Trail. We were over prepared with lots of camping gear, food, etc. I totally underestimated the stress that the terrain can place on your joints, especially your knees. It was late September in Alabama but the temperatures were mild. The hike was only supposed to take about 5 hours, however it took us over 8 hours and we didn't even finish half of it due to the quick deterioration of my knees. I was in so much pain I could barely walk even with a hiking stick, especially downhill. We could have easily survived two or three days in the wilderness before our food ran out but fortunately we got cell service at a mountaintop and were able to reach my fiance and arrange for her to pick us up at the nearest trailhead. It's a lesson learned to NEVER trust GPS hiking apps for planning an eta, especially the trail reviews. Your physical capabilities can be vastly different from an experienced hiker, even if you are in great shape. Never push yourself too hard and take breaks at least every 30min.
My heart is absolutely broken while listening to this story. I can't imagine the pain and fear all of them had when realizing they were trapped. Absolutely heart wrenching 😢
Another mistake: not bringing a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) into a remote area. For about $ 300 they could have called for help and transmitted their position to emergency services.
David Paulides recommends locator beacons. Sometimes I think Dr Grande employs the most simplest solutions. This incident was weird no matter how you look at it!
Very sad. Especially for the little girl and dog who had no control over what happened. We wouldn’t even go to the local park without each carrying a bottle of water, outside of winter , in Melbourne. We generally have more of a Mediterranean climate, but it’s just ingrained that you have to keep hydrated.
While camping once, we drove to a different location to hike. We were shocked upon arrival by the change in temperature. It was much hotter at this new location. Even though we had brought a lot of water, we drank through so much of it and had no water left for a portion of the hike back- which was the hottest and most exposed. The group went on ahead and I stayed back with my daughter who was struggling. We’d stop under the limited shade available and rest for a few minutes before carrying on. I thought we were going to die. I will never forget this experience.
Love your analysis here. Another item for a hike like this would be an ACR gps rescue link or similar device. They are satellite based and use 406 MHz, just like modern aircraft locator beacons use. No cel coverage needed and simply deploying the antenna and push a button if in a life threatening situation. I always take one on these hikes or off shore as well.
I am a frequent hiker in the White Mountains of New Hampshire. There are many injuries and deaths which have occurred there due to simply being unprepared. As a solo hiker, I "pack heavy", which is to say I bring more than what is needed for the time I plan to be out. If on a day hike, I bring enough to get through the night. There are plenty of water sources, so I can get away with bringing a minimum of water, since I also have a good filtration system. Even with my experience, I remember feeling a little nauseated on my first hike of Mt. Washington on the descent. It was in August, and even though the temperature was less than 80 degrees, I knew I was showing signs of hyperthermia. A rest break of 15 minutes, and a good long drink of water, and I was fine again. I also let my family know the exact planned route of my hike, and expected time of return, and I do not deviate from that. Another key element here is having a GPS communicator of some type, such as my personal locator beacon. This is especially important for solo hikers like me. It's important to remember that even with a GPS device, help is still going to take several hours to get to you; sometimes even the next day, depending on weather conditions. Bottom line- there is no such thing as being "over-prepared" in hiking.
Dr. Grande, I live east of Sacramento, and was aware of this sad case. But, I didn't know until now what their causes of death were. When this tragedy was in the local news, it was 107° and I couldn't imagine even sitting on my patio in the shade. I once lived close to San Francisco where these people were from, and the weather is much cooler. They apparently failed to check the weather inland, so they had no idea how terribly hot it would get. This was so mysterious back in August, much speculation, but now we know they were simply overcome with the dry climate and high temperature. Thank you for covering this one. 👍💜🌵🎶
That's why I really like the area I live. I reside about 7-8 minutes south of Daly City in Colma City.The temperature 🌡️ here during the summer 🏝️ ⛱️🌞 is cool weather mid 60s to 70 with many days of good ol'SF 🌫️🌁 fog.
@@jonathannixon8652 Yep, I lived in San Mateo for 40 years and got used to the cooler climate (after moving there from San Bernardino). I miss the cooler temps, but not the congestion and increased crime. I hope all is well for you these days. It was 106° today, but I've learned to hunker down and do errands early morning, or late night.
Hi Dr Grande, one point not brought up in your analysis is they hiked through a major burn area therefore much of the canopy was gone leading to increased temps. I suppose that’s another issue us outdoorsy people must consider theses days, sadly, when planning hikes.
I work SRS in Colorado at 8,000 ft and most hyperthermia deaths in our regions are due to the fact that the victim is on antipsychotics. There is a well-known link between antipsychotics and hyperthermia especially at altitude. I am curious since I have found no information on their meds if this could be a contributing factor. Thank you for the content. Very interesting.
Reminds me of the people in Alaska used to snicker about my level of preparedness when going out in the field... they always seemed to think it was overkill on my part. Of course, they were the ones who ended up having to get rescued by the Coast Guard, and be discussed television news as examples of what not to do out in the wild, and the importance of being prepared LOL. Absolute true story. Great work as usual, Dr Grande.
How many times has this happened?! You’ve met travelers along the way who then had to be rescued by the Coast Guard more than once?! Are you sure you’re not a bad luck omen??!! Loljk
Exactly! I am originally from Tasmania in Australia. Tasmania has generally mild weather in summer but around Christmas time it can snow on the highlands. Every year optimistic souls would go hiking there dressed in only their shorts and tee shirts. And freeze to death (there was no telecommunication in those days).
Very tragic case. As an avid hiker I agree that it was most probably a heat stroke condition which is very sad (the dog and baby 😔). Thank you so much Dr. Grande for all you do and have a great weekend 💚💙.
This story broke my heart ; the combination of a loving young couple with a little girl and the family dog made it made it deeply tragic .Thank you so much for explaining what happened in such a calm , respectful and thoughtful manner. I needed to understand what happened and now I do; thank you. The decision to take one water bottle was particularly baffling .As an Australian where the temperature in Summer can leap 20 degrees in an hour I check the temperature almost obsessively every morning and during the day before I do anything. Everyone in my family takes more water than they need in Summer , even to go to the shops. Nature is beautiful but it can also be lethal . I hope many people learn from this families fatal mistake and lethal lack of judgement and preparation.
Concerning 'young couple', they weren't exactly 20-somethings.. Ellen was in her thirties and John was in his mid-forties. Wouldn't the ancient Greeks have said that what happened was just another case of hubris?
@@youtuber5305 hubris ? Wow ! So judgemental and harsh ! They may not have been in their 20's but Ellen Chung was 31 and as most people live into their 80's and 90's now she hadn't even lived half of her potential life so she is young (it certainly isn't old). Only 2 years ago she was in her 20's ! Jonathan Gerrish at 45 had probably lived half of his life span which once again isn't old although he could be considered mature ! But why quible about their ages when they were far far too young to die especisally when their daughter Miju was only 1 ? I see this as a tragedy but not a ":greek Tragedy" as your word "Hubris" suggests .I don't believe their is any evidence to suggest that they had foolish amount of pride or confidence just very poor judgement and poor planning and a lack of experience .The walk clearly took them longer than they expected and it clearly got far hotter far more quickly than they had prepared for . Because they left so early ( when it was only 71 celcius) and because it was clear from previous evidence that they adored their little baby girl and their lovely 8-year-old dog Oski it appears they simply underestimated their circumstances and truly believed they could complete the walk before it got too hot. I imagine they set off quite happily at first . They all loved nature and all dogs want a walk ! In normal conditions a walk of that distance should be able to be completed in an hour and a half but neither the terrain or the weather made that possible , especially without enough water. The fact a fire earlier in the year had removed the trees that might have offered them shade made things much worse . However they died only a mile and a half from their vehicle ! They nearly made it ! .....However the advice is NOT to use that trail in Summer time ! . I can't begin to imagine how 2 seemingly intelligent people living a really good life made so many poor choices on one morning that they died because of their own mistakes ! However they did make some thoughtful preparations with survival in mind . Investigators found various items in Chung's backpack including a snakebite kit, a knife, bug spray, first aid kit, extra diapers, two empty sippy cups (one had remnants of baby formula inside) .Maybe each one believed the other had brought more water ? We will never know ,but I remain heart-broken even though I didn't know them. They moved from the city to be closer to nature and in their innocense they died .
Ugh we have a one year old daughter and just thinking about her being with us in a situation like this just breaks my heart. That dad was probably trying to make his daughter laugh and smile until his very last second. I hope that they passed together at the same time so one didn’t have to live without the other. At least they are all together now ♥️
I have a hard time saying that people who died from something like this fucked up, because we all make stupid mistakes sometimes and obviously they didn't realize they were doing anything reckless before it was too late. But considering they brought their dog and daughter (who both rely on them for safety and basic needs) it's hard to imagine their lack of preparation. If you realize you only have one bottle of water before a 7 mile hike in the middle of summer, I think it's reasonable to call off the hike and do something else. Either way, it's still really sad. 😔
I don't have a problem calling people who mess up what they are. Yes, each of us messes up, but there are degrees of recklessness and consequences that parents have to be aware of.
Exactly. This is not like a random tree limb falling on someone or a sinkhole opening up. Rather, their own mistakes directly contributed towards their deaths. We must be willing to say that so that we can learn from their deaths.
Lesson I’ve consistently learned from Dr. Grande and Mr. Ballen: JUST DON’T GO HIKING OR CAMPING!!!! Also - Thank you again Dr. Grande for this great analysis as usual. The way you explain and talk about certain not-so-pleasant things always seems to make me feel a little calmer and “safer” while listening to something so highly stressful (I’m a very high anxiety, easily panicked person). You’re always extremely reasonable and logical when faced with analyzing these terrible cases, and you also precisely map out the pros and cons of different choices and actions, etc., which is just more proof of what a wonderful psychologist you are. And if I was ever in a scary situation like some of these you talk about, I’d definitely want you in my group!! 😁
No, you can indeed go hiking. The problem is when you read about a particularly interesting or beautiful trail, they always seem to be a tad longer (or hotter or colder) than you're actually fit for, but you decide to do it anyway. The trick is to go prepared--prepared to turn back before you reach your goal if your timing or other circumstances are off. Even a partial hike into the wild has its rewards. For example, hiking down into the Grand Canyon sounds intriguing, but it is a serious and potentially dangerous hike, and not everyone can do it. We've never had the time and the preparation to so much as book a mule ride down. So one time when we were there, late in the afternoon we set a timer for 20 minutes. We hiked down at a relaxed pace for 20 minutes, and when our time was up, we actually STOPPED, turned around, and went back up. No, we didn't reach any goals or get any trophies. But we saw views you just can't see from the rim, and the views changed every few paces. We saw raptors soaring overhead, and walked through an arch. We also saw the shadows lengthening. What was sunny on the way down was in shadow on the way back up. It was enjoyable, and we have no regrets about it whatsoever.
@@exrobowidow1617 I do realize that yes, ppl go hiking and camping obviously…I was being sarcastic a bit. But you’re right - your reasonable, logical, and smart attitude make you a great candidate for hiking, etc., especially your mention of being PREPARED!! I think that’s always pretty much the main issue with all of these cases! Ppl either think they’re too smart or too good at something so they don’t prepare properly or they just don’t think. It’s so sad, cuz even just a good hour or two to prepare could save lives and also allow ppl to really enjoy a hike or camping out. You made some great points in your comment!
Reminds me of the case of Casandra Bravo. People go underprepared for what they think is just a day hike and wind up dead. After the Bravo tragedy I made sure to try to be prepared at all times on the trail. I also bought a GPS device that can send an SOS at half the price of what a cellphone costs, where there is no cell service. I would wager that up in those mountains, down in that canyon, his cellphone was useless.
We visited L.A. in October 2018, and suddenly there was a heatwave, 108 degrees. We were afraid to leave the hotel. But we did go for a drive, only a short one to a shopping plaza. Walking outside from the car was nearly impossible! The air was definitely extreme but much worse was walking on the pavement, thought my shoes would melt! Only a short hop to the doors but my feet were burning! I've seen desert thermometers which measure the ground to 160 degrees when the air temp is 120. I believe that this heat difference can account for the many heat related fatalities we've been hearing about. Walking outside on super-heated ground surfaces - which absorb the sun's radiation - is nigh impossible, like walking on white coals.
These 2 Einsteins bring their 1 yr old child and their dog on this UNNECESSARY, treacherous trip. An obvious case of child abuse, animal abuse and incredible stupidity.
I remember as a as a child something I will never forget I'm used to Mexico's Heat yet one time my uncle drove to a different state on the North part of Mexico similar to Arizona hottest Heat, I was extremely shy so I wouldn't tell him that I felt I was dying out of thirst, I was so extremely extremely thirsty I remember the feeling and it is something that you just cannot even imagine. Then he said I'm going to go buy some water and I was so happy because I wouldn't ask for it because I was very shy, he got a bottle and gave it to my sister and me, I kid you not I drank that whole bottle immediately in less than a minute!!! and as I drinked it I felt extreme relief BUT only to realize that just two minutes later I was back again under the extreme need for another full water bottle, NO don't think you can just go by with a little water, orthanc if you feel fear O Let's just sip a little water so we have enough as we walk you will be in a desperate need to survive ! A person is likely to snatch and drink a whole bottle on their own out of desperation because you are literally dying inside and that's what happened to them people died a slow death do you think if you're dying you would just call me sip a little bit of water? As a family they probably all share the water but if you are with strangers I can see how one of the people will probably become your enemy and take the water for themselves because people are literally dying minute-by-minute. I can see how the fight and flight response would kick in. People who have never experienced that level of heat have no idea what it feels like and how it dehydrates you IMMEDIATELY you need tons and tons of BOTTLES water you, because after you drink one in less than a minute your body needs it right again.
When I hike in areas with full sun exposure, I carry a backpacking umbrella. It has a silver coating that blocks UV rays. It can be at least 10° cooler underneath it than in full sun. 2 of these plus more water may have made the difference for this family.
So shocking especially heartbreaking are that Miju, and Oski, the two innocents suffered and died. Heatstroke is a long and brutal way to die. As an Australian we are taught about exposure, this doesn't add up, very suspicious.
Hi Dr! Thanks for the upload as always ❤️ As a non American, it would be a really helpful addition if you could give temperatures in Celsius as well as Fahrenheit! Other imperial measurements (ie. feet, inches, pounds, ounces) aren’t an issue, but the Fahrenheit scale happens to be alien to many people outside America.
@@ontheprairie No need for conversion if they could just abandon these archaic systems that barely anyone uses. Everyone in the sciences uses SI units already, just get the general population to do the same.
I live in California’s Central Valley; this story was relatively “local” news. The heat here in the summer is oppressive and takes acclimation. SF is easily 40 degrees cooler than the valley in the summer. In our weather, it’s best to err on the side of caution and stay hydrated so you never get behind, not to mention to always keep cool water in your vehicle at all times.
You can have sympathy and empathy for people even if they made mistakes that lead to a tragedy. I don't think it is insulting to acknowledge the mistakes they made. It doesn't mean they somehow deserved what happened.
Realy enjoy your content, Dr. Grande! Enjoy the level headed thinking and analysis in all your videos. Calm demeanor… I can listen to your videos at any time of the day and fully grasp the storylines and the way you lay it out. Very informative… these poor people. I honestly believe they baby was likely the last to go…. Unable to help herself. Very tragic, over preparing can sometimes be a bummer especially when you come back with a full pack. Never know when the extra water, food, socks, whistle, hand warmers, cliff bars will come in handy. Never underestimate mother nature… shes the grand champion
Profoundly tragic story. An acquitance of mine went for a regular hike with her dog in the hills in a popular area with many other people there. It was on a day “that wasn’t even supposed to be that hot…” (she said). Half way back one of the hikers had to carry her 80lb dog on his shoulders to safety, but the dog died … “I even gave all of my water to the dog”, she said… The temperature was in the 100s that day. Besides common sense that spans ages, I wonder what lessons we could learn from the native people. How did they manage to survive without water in plastic containers and no AC in their homes? Shade? Stay in place?… This was just the saddest …..😥
I knew people who did similar things to their sporting dogs as the weather got warmer however, people overlook that dogs have to be conditioned too… if they haven’t been exercised extensively in awhile a big long hot hike is going to be hard for them like anything else.
Good afternoon Dr Grande. What a sad and tragic event. It would appear that they didn't use their critical thinking skills to prepare for this situation. I feel so much sympathy for the parents and that little girl and the dog. Thank you Dr Grande Great analysis and topic.
I paved asphalt for many years. I'm telling you that hydration is literally the KEY to survive. It takes days of pounding water to pave on a hot day. If you're thirsty, it's already to late.
Why didn't they get in the water to cool off? That one family saved themselves by drinking their own urine. Gross as it is, it saved their lives by buying them a little time. They all died at the same time, including the dog? Why didn't the dog drink the water in the river? I'm wondering if there was a phenomenon in that area where the heat rose higher than elsewhere. I live in the Rocky mountains. It would never be hot up there. Drive 5 minutes up, it cools down 10 degrees. The river water is freezing all year long from glaciers. So I guess it's not like that in CA. This is so sad and so strange. Isn't there vomiting with heat stroke? I wonder if the investigators saw any?
I read that the dog was leashed to the man's body and couldn't have walked to the river even if he/she had wanted. Even if untethered, many dogs have such intense sense of loyalty and responsibility that who knows if he/she would've wandered off at all. This was a tragedy, all around!
Always be careful if a trail starts off downhill. At some point you’re going to have to go back up. If you wait until you’re tired to turn around, you’re too late.
Wow. A PSA in some respects. Thank you, Dr. Grande. So tragic and yes, 100% preventable. Know your terrain! Know your weather! Everyone have their own water source (including the dog)!
Sounds like a rather unusual circumstance considering they were hiking where they were. But it just shows mother nature can give you anything when your in the wild.
Hot tip: from lived experience, they should have stopped where they were and waited for dusk and cooler temperatures, before starting back. And, if you have no water, pick up a pebble, suck on it. It makes saliva, mitigates the craving for water.
They died of hyperthermia combined with dehydration which is lack of water. They did not die of "craving for water". They should have retraced their steps over the second part of the loop which was the level part and gotten back to the river and stayed at the river/in the river until dusk before making the elevation climb back to the car as you would have done but they needed to get back to the river and some shade.
Something similar happened to me. I was with three friends but we were young so a bit inexperienced. We walked through dense woods to get to the Michigan Dunes. My guess is that the temperature was in the mid 90s. First I sprayed insect repellent all over my arms and legs. I had a can of pop with me. Anyway I believe the insect repellent clogged my pores so I didn’t sweat properly. Once we had climbed several dunes I realized I was in trouble. I was quite dizzy and disoriented but I managed to make it to my savior, Lake Michigan. With all my clothes on I stumbled in and filled the empty pop can with lake water. I drank as much as I could thinking I might get a little sick but I would survive. Apparently the lake was clean because I had no ill effects. So to conclude I wish the family had taken the risk to drink the river water. Also they should have wet their clothes in the river if it was too dangerous to leave the shore.
85 oz is a ridiculously low amount of water for all of them. My wife and I carry 3 L each for moderate hikes. Good rule of thumb: turn around when your water is down to half. If your return hike is uphill then turn back at 1/4. Such a shame.
Start with a good map of the area you want to hike in. Plan a hike that is uphill first, then later in the day come back downhill. If you can find it, choose a hike with exposure towards West for uphill and towards East for downhill (in summer, in winter reverse direction). Don't overexert - stop hiking, seek shade and stay put. Even in a treeless area you have rocks that will cast a shadow to shelter in. Continue your hike at dusk. If there's a source of fresh water and your're dehydrated drink it even unfiltered. Your gut can be cleaned up later but you need the water to survive now. Sit in the water to cool off. And most important of all: Start your hike as early in the morning as possible. The uphill part of your hike should be done no later than 10am. If necessary start with a headlamp while it is still dark.
I was hiking in the Cali Sierra Nevada in June, elevation 13,000 feet, a lot can go wrong up there, and you must have adequate water, a water filtration stick to start with. More importantly I never ever hike or hunt without a top notch satellite GPS. You never get lost or disoriented, don’t leave home without it!
In San Francisco "an outdoorsmen" is the one who makes weekend trip to the city's Golden Gate park with a bottle of water and a snack bar. In wild Sierras you should travel with satellite phone, gps, with a firearm, enough water/warm cloth, hi-calories food, wound treatment kit (not iddie-biddie bandaids). And you know the route where you going. And the weather forecast. And it is better that someone else knows where you going and when you are expected to be back. Sad story, though.
I live in this part of California and the dry heat can sometimes be deceptive or if they got an early start they didn't realize how hot it can get. I have a hard time with the idea they all died this way, but I know it's also possible. It's just really shocking. I agree, this was absolutely preventable.
I live in Arizona and regularly run. Even the shortest trips can become dangerous if you're caught at the wrong time without water. Always have a plan in case of emergencies, even if you don't think you'll need it. I can run 10 miles in 100 degrees one day, but start getting heart palpatations just from walking if I'm dehydrated another day at 105 degrees.
I lived in the Sierra Nevada foothills for twenty-seven years. I also graduated from the USA Infantry Officer Candidate School (IOCS)and spent a year as a platoon leader with the 4th Infantry Division in Vietnam in the Central HIghlands. What the instructors at IOCS constantly reminded us was the "6 Ps" -- Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance" and have a Plan B. On my hikes in the Sierras I'd put on my old Army fatigues , combat boots, webbing, canteens, map. Been there and done that on those extreme forced marches in the Army. Actually, the weather in the Sierra foothills is a cake walk in summer compared to humid Georgia in the summer and the Central Highlands of Vietnam in the dry season.
A really sad case. Despite all the mistakes they made, it still seems unusual that ALL of them were found dead. Even the dog. You would think at least one of them would have survived, being as close to the truck as they were.
Dave Exactly It’s surprising all of them died and the adults must have died around the same time. The wife was probably the last one to die as she was farther ahead but not that much farther. But it was a long hike and they were near the end so I guess it makes sense they all died around the same time
I don't believe the dog could die so fast. Dogs have fur that protect them from the heat, there are not shaved skin as human. Something else happened I think. The police said nobody is dead there in 20 years. Very, very strange...
@@wd1534 In fact dogs are more sensible to heat than humans. Humans are extremely resistent to heat and can walk the longest. The dog may have been the first one to collapse especially since he already was 8 years old and quite furry. Fur protects from heat but just to an extent.
@@meeramoves4404 a good test would be to go to this place a day with same temperature and drink the same amount of water, walking the same distance to see if a problem happens, (and bring more water for security of course)
Even if you are just doing a day hike, you should bring water filtration system/pump and or a lifestraw, a first aid kit, some survival food, a knife, rope, water proof jacket, and enough clothes to survive a night in the relevant climate, just in case.
In much of California, actual water is better than a water filter. Because you can't filter water that doesn't exist. Looks like this family had one access point, at the bottom of their hike, where they could have used a filter if there was water in the stream.
This is profoundly sad. Hopefully, Dr. Grande’s coverage of this tragedy will serve to warn others of the potential dangers while hiking. I have one thought on what may have contributed to this very unfortunate event. Dr. Grande mentioned that the father/husband was British. Britain has, I believe, a much more moderate climate that through his past hiking experiences, may have lulled him into complacency. Midday temperatures in Britain may not climb so radically during the day, so he wasn’t as keen to perceive this midday heat potential in the hot, arid, California climate. My heart goes out to the families, and to this sweet little baby who never got a chance to live and grow. Thanks Dr. Grande.
This is so sad. And I hope people realize that many of us could make this mistake. We all need to learn from this and not just shake our heads and say "How reckless! That would never happen to me!"
I’ve cycled across the USA 4 times. I check the weather 3-4 times a day. If I see 90 degrees in the forecast I either ride 5am to 11am or I stay put. When it comes to hiking in 100 degrees enuf water is almost impossible to carry. Yesterday I walked a flat road for 18miles. 95 degrees. I drank about 1 gallon of water
Yet another insightful analysis Dr Grande. I think I speak for all my fellow subscribers - bravo. It really is impressive how you produce such high quality analyses in such rapid succession. Such productivity. Also, I just finished reading enduring love, which is also a movie starring Daniel Craig. I was surprised to learn it is based on a real case of de Clérambault’s Syndrome . I'd never heard of this but it is a fascinating condition. Wondering if you might share your thoughts on it?
Out of the group, I think their dog would have succumbed first. I think they may have stopped for the dog, tried to carry him, and as you mentioned give him water. The whole time the temp is rising. They are exhausted from carrying both the baby and the dog and their water ran out b/c as they didn't bring enough. A heartbreaking story.
That is too bad about them, they were probably just inexperienced. Couples, being isolated from others too long, can build a false sense of confidence about basically everything. Very interesting story, thank you for the video.
"couples being isolated from others" can build a false sense of confidence - or overconfidence... This is an interesting point, one that I had not thought of.
@@bluecollarlit It is a common occurrence that couples try to create a lifestyle inside their house/apartment. When they do this every day, they will start to become different than even a couple that is doing the same thing next door.
@@beaulieuonnp593 Isn't it strange that certain couples try telling other people that they are independent? They are extremely dependent on society to give them housing, food, protection, and all types of other things they "need." There is a chance that 100% of everything they have was made by other people.
My first 20 mile hike resulted in great stress. i chose to double back, rehydrate , then push back to the trailhead. what was a day trip turned into 40hours. I am quite the wiser now but only because of luck.
Ive hiked uphill in 115 degrees. But i have experience. A lot of it. Hiking in heat. And i would never hike in direct sun when over 100. Also depends on humidity. I’m talking low humidity (which is better). I’ll go mostly late in day when sun is low and there are shadows/shade. Or really early morning. Be done by 8:30am. When i did 115 i drank 60oz in the car. Brought 30oz with me. Had another 30 in car waiting at end. Hiking midday at 105 degrees in direct sun is insane. Some ppl do it. I wouldn’t recommend. Its 105 in the shade mind u. And the ground and rocks are probably 130-160. Super heat everywhere. No relief. 80oz for for 2 adults isn’t enough. Add a dog and a BABY??? Crazy stuff. I agree. They probably thought they’d be done earlier. Shame. Deadly mistake.
Predictable. When living in Arizona, I heard of this kind of thing happening a few times each summer. You have to be pretty damn good to stay out for two hours in 100+ with just a couple bottles of water. I drink that much in a two hour meeting indoors. Always interesting when smart, successful people do careless things as they get adventurous. Ironic that they wanted their child to be closer to nature - which was their final adversary.
Thank you for your honest analysis. Even if they brought nothing else, they should have had multiple water bottles for each of them, including the baby and dog. They were unprepared. It is sad, but also their own fault.
In highschool on a roadtrip through the American West, me and some friends took ecstasy and went on a hike through Glacier National Park. A 12 mile hike. With no places to refill water. We each packed way too little water and combined with the ecstasy dehydration, it almost came to this. I will never forget the panic and desperation that sets in when you realize the likelihood of a looming painful death. Sheer terror. 15 years later and I am still way overkill cautious when it comes to having enough water on me for excursions (not limited to hikes - even drives through remote areas, etc).
This case is so strange, it almost defies the odds. 85 oz of water for 2 adults and a kid isn't a lot but it's not a small amount for a hike designed to last a few hours. That's five pints. If things go south, that water can be rationed. The crazy thing is how they all fell victim around the same time. Given how physiologies are different from person to person you'd think at least one could survive until the next day.
This still *seems* mysterious though. How could this couple have been so foolish this time? The death of the child and the dog is the most upsetting, imo.
I once was taken on a mini "walkabout" by a native when I visited Australia. What struck me was how he was totally unconcerned at how dehydrated we were. We didn't take any water along, it was summer but luckily we were on flat ground with shade. I think if either of us had turned an ankle or worse it could have turned out badly. There was no mobile network coverage.
While I was in Central Florida I had a rugged toy poodle I took on adventures in the woods and on paths, we walked everywhere. I kept her doused in cold water and hydrated because I knew the Florida sun and heat could seriously hurt her. Read or watch any of Cody Lundin's works about outdoor safety. Even before I could do any of that, my mother instilled in me a healthy sense of self preservation. Consequently, outdoors I watch my 6, avoid areas with blocked sight lines and never get too far from my car. That being said, all the caution in the world can't stop all miscalculations in judgement or plain old bad luck. Thank you for the efforts of SARS teams and all the organizations that help those of us lost or hurt in wilderness situations.
What a sad story!! 😔 I've hiked a fair amount and can see how this could happen. Taking the daughter was not a good move obviously. I'm sure neither of the couple could envision the potential danger - hence the ill-fated outcome.
As an EMT I find this case EXTREMELY STRANGE. Normally males and dogs are far more resilient when it comes to heatstroke and hypothermia. I’m shocked that the dog didn’t take off and fend for itself to find water in a puddle or lake. 95 degrees TYPICALLY isn’t enough to kill even the most fragile of humans, unless the exposure is PROLONGED FOR HRS AND EVEN DAYS. *The only thing that would make sense is if they had been out there SINCE SATURDAY and were lost for 2+ full days?*
They began around 8am Sunday morning at 75 degrees. By afternoon it swelled to 109. They were reported missing Monday night and found I believe Tuesday morning. I read one article that stated they were found late Monday night and two members of LE stayed with the bodies through the night so no one would disturb the scene. Also the dog was apparently chained to the dad so maybe that’s why he didn’t run off. I can’t imagine how weird it was for LE when they found them
Yes I did enjoy your analysis. I hike daily. You would be surprised how many people hike unprepared and bringing babies,toddlers and pets. Such tragedy. God Bless their families.
Thank you so much for this video. The last I heard it was the toxic algae theory which I didn't think was correct. They were both intelligent adults, but lacking common sense. I feel badly for them & the poor baby baked to death
Two things: One, I've read a number of accounts of people dying of hyperthermia or simple lack of water next to, near or within sight of a water source that was muddy. They were too afraid to drink water that looked dangerous 0_o. Second, I have a personal experience involving lack of water brought along. When I was twenty, I was visiting relatives in southern California. My cousin who lived there suggested the three of us, me him and my little brother go hiking up 'Mt.Baldy' a local hiking spot. I wondered if we should bring some water along and my cousin said, nah, we don't need any water, but if it'll make you feel better lets bring a quart jar of water along just in case. Well, that jar of water was gone by the time we got halfway up. At the 3/4 spot, I was too tired to continue and had to stop and that age I was at my fittest ever in my life, 6'-2" and 165 lbs. Cousin and little bro continued on while I waited for them exhausted. Thankfully some hikers descending from the summit gave me some of their water. My cousin and brother suffered no ill effects from the entire journey. From what I know now about hiking in hot summer weather I would have had each of us carry a GALLON of water along.
I watched a video about this yesterday and was surprised that their deaths were deemed a mystery, considering how ludicrously hot it was that day. If it's over 70 degrees, I don't leave the house unless I've got sun factor 50 and a load of water. By the time the time it had got into the 90s, I'd have turned back, (had I been insane enough to decide that hiking was a good idea in that heat). I feel awful for all of them but it was SO avoidable...
In my home country, there's a reason why we carry an umbrella even in the summer. It's not so we could be covered from the rain if that happen but also use it as a portable shade for such a humid day.
I think people often mis-judge how dangerous exercising or undertaking strenuous physical activities in high temperatures is. This was truly a bizarre and tragic case. Thank you Dr. grande for your perspective.
So true.
4 creatures d onot all die of heat stroke at the same time- the mother was only around the bend, probably getting ready to use the bathroom when something killed them all. it was not the heat- what a bunch of total bullshit. they would have known that right away instead of taking many MONTHS to come up with this insulting excuse.
@@mikeswiental4815 sounds like Dr Todd should evaluate you next.
@@mikeswiental4815 There have been a number of cases of people dying right next to with within sight and close distance to a water source that was muddy or otherwise didn't look safe. Like they were afraid of being poisoned, but died from lack of water instead.
@@mikeswiental4815 Yeah man, it was probably the mole people for sure.
As an avid hiker, there are a couple of things to always remember: Be prepared (Boy Scouts) and, unfortunately nature really doesn't care about your survival. Sad story. Happens in the Arizona desert every year. Don't worry about the water weight, it will get lighter.
Camelback keeps SAR pretty busy.....
Well said
I keep a few heavy duty, lawn and leaf bags, in my pack. They weigh nothing, and can serve as a rain/wind poncho, a dry place to sit/sleep, a rain/snow proof shelter (or part of a shelter), and a quick form of shade, if needed.
@@mainemermaid6596 Seriously? Just buy the damn poncho. You can get one that is very light weight and they are versatile having quick snaps, etc. and they come in easily seen colors (neon orange). Mine always came in handy, in a downpour, unsnapped it easily provided shelter for two. Two of them (my hiking companions also carried them) snapped together allowed you to make a tent. Leaf bags; Jeez Louise!
@Maine Mermaid but it's black, nobody can see u
I once took my son (he was about 10 at the time) on a 9 mile loop trail that I had never done before. The trail was steep, rocky, and poorly marked, and about an hour in, I lost the trail for a while. I then slipped and smashed my shin on a rock, and a huge goose egg formed immediately. It hurt, and I was concerned about compartment syndrome, and for the first time ever in my life, I was concerned for my son's safety. I realized right then that though hiking is safe, it's certainly not totally safe. We had food and water and the weather was good. I bandaged my leg and found I could walk, and after a while it felt better. We found the trail and finished the hike (which took well over 6 hours), thankfully that first part was the hardest going. It turned out okay, but I have never forgotten those few minutes of fear. I am now MUCH pickier about knowing a trail before taking my kids on it. This video was a good reminder.
I'm glad your story ended well.
Bumped you leg and worried about about compartments syndrome. I only say that because I fell 30 ft and had bilaterally tibia fractures that resulted in double fasciotomies that was reason to worry. If you’re that concerned you shouldn’t be walking with you kid down trails ya don’t know. Sounds wreck less to me.
@@DrDemented9885or even reckless with a hint of a wreck on the trail😂. Yikes, your story sounds hideous and I am glad you made it out ok!❤
Thank you very much. I’m on my way to a full recovery. Look forward to walking out of here. Much appreciated.🙏🙏🙏
"Hiking is safe" lol entirely depends on who, where, how long and weather conditions but sure, hiking is safe. 😅
I live in Florida. I'm a Foreman of a construction crew. This is something I have to keep my eyes on, every summer. A lot of times, people won't notice the early signs of heat stroke. I have at least 1 guy on my crew, every summer, go thru this.
well said
Foreman in dallas here!
I learned that one the hard way unfortunately, I definitely don’t want to go through that again.
Sounds like ur a good foreman. Wouldn’t mind working under someone as responsible as yourself. Safety is essential in construction mining etc.
I used to work in steel construction/fabrication. I remember when we worked 100s of ft up everyone would become very quiet. Concentration and being aware of your environment is very important in dangerous situations
Florida is definitely hot in the summer!
This kind of thing happens regularly in Australia, especially with overseas tourists. They drive through the outback in extreme heat, the car breaks down and they try to walk for help. Carry large amounts of water, and stay with your vehicle if you are ever in this situation. Tell the local cops about your plans before you leave.
:(
God... Australia is scary.
@@missbraindamage no, it's wonderful, great weather in Queensland all year round
Happens in Croatia almost every summer, when continental tourists see the nearby mountains from the beach and decide to go hiking on a whim literally in flip-flops carrying a small bottle of water. To them those peaks look closer and smaller than they are in reality so they heavily underestimate the effort. Flip-flop hikers inevitably get lost, succumb to exhaustion or somehow manage to find themselves off the path in some rough terrain and if they can get a signal call for help. The volunteer rescue teams are busy all summer. The weather conditions and harsh terrain make the helicopter rescue missions all the more difficult and risky.
They not only needed more water, they needed electrolytes in that water. I'm from that area and have hiked all over. Some visitors seem to think Yosemite is like Disneyland and have no idea how dangerous their behavior can be. Even experienced hikers go missing quite often. You don't mess with Mother Nature.
Plus, predators.
Even at Disneyland you need to stay hydrated in summer. Better not to go there in extremely hot weather. Only difference is they have numerous staff who will assist guests in trouble.
Mother Nature won again.
@@carolv8450 That's ridiculous.
I’m from the area too and don’t forget the people who go off trail and into cartel cannabis farms and aren’t seen from again.
I’ve been to this town in California and could not for the life of me think bringing a baby on a Summers hike would be a good idea. Thank you for breaking this down. Sometimes people are just too confident and others put too much trust in them. What a sad story.
agreed. who would think of doing that?
When it's summer I take hikes in the evening.
Inexperience: they were new from SF, where summer temps are way cooler. Also, CA had unusually high humidity this summer, which raised the heat index to death levels. I live in the CA desert and we had many heat deaths last summer during these humid spells, including deaths of several very experienced summer hikers.
@@ruthnolan13 That's totally what I was thinking. I hail from a cooler region and it took me a while to get used to triple digit heat after I moved
People shouldn't bring dogs either but if I say that you can bet some clown will pipe in about it being OK because THEY bring their dogs proving to me they're irresponsible as well.
I do like the stories when the people pass and the dog survives but in this case they failed the dog as well. 8 year old dog and a 1 year old baby. These guys were fools.
I feel bad for them obviously. A lot of times really smart people are lacking in the common sense category. You always should know full weather conditions and carry ample water, filtration systems, first aid and emergency rations. You never know what might happen.85 ounces of water for 3 people and a dog is crazy for a several hour hike. You also make a great point about only one container.
Yes, and neither one of them were from that area. It makes a big difference when you're acclimated to the heat. And it was so sad that they took their daughter. When he said that in the beginning of the story, I almost clicked it off.
Who takes a child hiking in 107 degree weather?
@dražen g I think the dog may have been leashed up with the guy. :( sad story.
@@kkheflin3 They set out really early before 8am when the temperature was only 75 degrees. Maybe they hoped to finish the hike before it got that hot....or as Dr Grande pointed out they may not have even checked the weather before they set out . I think this is plausible because if they had know it was going to be 107 they wouldn't have taken their child and their dog or even gone for a hike because nobody does that !
@dražen g I really think the most likely conclusion was dehyration. And how ridiculous to take a one year old on a "hike" in 100 degree weather. I am not "blaming' them for making such a serious error as they obviously were most likely just ignorant of how the heat would affect them. So tragic.
This case is still so bizarre to me because temperatures lower than that would have been dangerous to potentially fatal to a young child, they are not able to acclimate to different weather conditions the same way adults are so additional water and shade would have been necessary on a summer hike even in a milder climate. I’m also confused about the dog, animals typically run off when sick or injured but I have heard it was older so I guess that could explain it. Maybe it was leashed. The missing piece for me is the baby, how could two parents be that reckless in that many ways with their child? The time of day, the distance, the water, the shade, the temperature? A change to any of those could have saved them but they went out for an 8 mile hike late in the morning on a summer day in a desert climate unfamiliar with the trail, terrain and temperature? Without water? I don’t get it.
Dogs are even more vulnerable to extreme heat than humans... they get sick from it sooner than we do (especially when strenuous exercise is involved) and they can drop dead extremely quickly too. That is why if you walk your dog on a hot day and it starts to get tired and refuses to move you should be very careful, get them into shade and rested and hydrated quickly. If you force them to move it is bad.
@@SardonicALLY Yeah an older dog in direct sunlight not acclimated to desert conditions you would think would start showing signs of hyperthermia on the way down, before the owners were really feeling it. I live in Arizona, there’s no way in hell I’d walk my little dog during the summer but if I did he’d be laying down and refusing to move once it hit the 90s. The whole thing is bizarre to me, how they made it that far out without realizing how hot it was getting. How neither the dog or the baby made them question what they were doing and turn around.
Sadly, the dog was tethered to its owner.
I don’t get it either. These were experienced hikers. Something’s fishy.
@Llyrdriel Clearly not in these conditions. Hiking should be easy, this was a nightmare set up
I've done a bit of hiking with dogs and they need more water than I do, taking a 1 year old anywhere for 4 hours takes a lot of preparation, even if its visiting relatives, these people were dangerously stupid, even if they were calm the child would have been uncomfortable being carried around for that long, its sad what happened to them though
Your analysis is a good one.
I lived in The Joshua Tree area for awhile. I can’t tell you how many times people would underestimate the heat issues and end up missing and sometimes be found in time and other times be found dead or not found at all. People underestimate the temperature when heading out if they are not very experienced regarding that particular climate. It is fairly sandy where they were and the sand reflects heat and adds substantially to the air temperature. When a couple was missing at Amboy Crater, one search party couldn’t even continue the search because the ground temperature was at 140 degrees and it was melting the specialized tires on their all terrain vehicles. I learned early on that I needed to get out to hike at sunrise in the summer and get back by 8am. And THAT was stretching it. This couple was used to the Bay Area hiking trails where the fog comes in and cools things off and the bay has a moderating effect on the temperature.
Your commentary about what you think happened and how their prior experience influenced their perception of the danger, was very refreshing and appropriate. Very insightful.
I'm very much an inside person, but my husband dragged me to Joshua Tree. We had the car close to any area we walked around, and brought a metric ton of water. He was very careful there, and I was shocked at how fast the temps rose! Very scary.
The note about the sand is so important. I just hiked White Sands in New Mexico. It was 62 degrees, but felt like 80. The sun reflects back up and you get hot quickly. The sand however was cold. It was interesting. But there were a couples of times I was just too hot. So anything warmer than 60 something and it would have been a big struggle.
This is a great comment and very informative. Thank you.
Great point! Bay Area hiking is also well shaded.
What a senseless death, really sad. Adequate preparation and caution should never be underestimated while hiking. In situations like this, Mother Nature usually wins. This is certainly a cautionary tale for everyone.
Thank you for the review Dr. Grande.❤️
Yes, agreed, Mother Nature will win unless prepared.
Mother nature always wins*
If you’re ever hiking in a place called “devils” or “death” something…find another place to hike.
These places have names for a reason.
Or at the very least don’t take kids/babies/animals.
We obviously need to up the warning factor of our naming system. I’m in favor of more extreme warnings like “Satan’s Butthole” or “You’re Gonna Die Valley”
@@HandleHandled Hiker's Perils, the Maw of Fire, Fool's March, the Trail of Ruin, Novice Bane, the Steps of Foreboding, Far-From-Help
I don't agree with places called "devil" being associated with danger, I mean I guess some could be. But Devil's is common and usually doesn't really have anything to do with dangers. It typically stems from folklore and native superstitions. Really close to me, we have Devil's Den, and it got that name due to the high amount of caves and the fact outlaws would hide in them. Thus, it was the Devil's Den. Nothing to actually do with them being "dangerous" but there is one cave called the Devil's Ice Box that gets really cold. :shrug:
The Native Americans named these places for a reason.
I'm 35 and last year I went with my best friend on a short hike on a small section of the Appalachian Trail. We were over prepared with lots of camping gear, food, etc. I totally underestimated the stress that the terrain can place on your joints, especially your knees. It was late September in Alabama but the temperatures were mild. The hike was only supposed to take about 5 hours, however it took us over 8 hours and we didn't even finish half of it due to the quick deterioration of my knees. I was in so much pain I could barely walk even with a hiking stick, especially downhill. We could have easily survived two or three days in the wilderness before our food ran out but fortunately we got cell service at a mountaintop and were able to reach my fiance and arrange for her to pick us up at the nearest trailhead. It's a lesson learned to NEVER trust GPS hiking apps for planning an eta, especially the trail reviews. Your physical capabilities can be vastly different from an experienced hiker, even if you are in great shape. Never push yourself too hard and take breaks at least every 30min.
My heart is absolutely broken while listening to this story. I can't imagine the pain and fear all of them had when realizing they were trapped. Absolutely heart wrenching 😢
Another mistake: not bringing a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) into a remote area. For about $ 300 they could have called for help and transmitted their position to emergency services.
Technology is of no use unless employed!
Thanks for the tip, maybe they didn't know there was such a thing?
They had a phone though. They could have used it.
@@tessajones9393 It's possible there was no cell service at their location.
David Paulides recommends locator beacons. Sometimes I think Dr Grande employs the most simplest solutions. This incident was weird no matter how you look at it!
I’m from that area and I’ll tell ya, you need to have a deep respect for the wilderness out there or it WILL get you.
Very sad. Especially for the little girl and dog who had no control over what happened. We wouldn’t even go to the local park without each carrying a bottle of water, outside of winter , in Melbourne. We generally have more of a Mediterranean climate, but it’s just ingrained that you have to keep hydrated.
That's exactly what I was thinking too. Like you took two innocent beings with you. LOL.
Even a dog becomes tired and needs water and rest from heat. I don't know what they were thinking going remote like that.
While camping once, we drove to a different location to hike. We were shocked upon arrival by the change in temperature. It was much hotter at this new location. Even though we had brought a lot of water, we drank through so much of it and had no water left for a portion of the hike back- which was the hottest and most exposed. The group went on ahead and I stayed back with my daughter who was struggling. We’d stop under the limited shade available and rest for a few minutes before carrying on. I thought we were going to die. I will never forget this experience.
Love your analysis here. Another item for a hike like this would be an ACR gps rescue link or similar device. They are satellite based and use 406 MHz, just like modern aircraft locator beacons use. No cel coverage needed and simply deploying the antenna and push a button if in a life threatening situation. I always take one on these hikes or off shore as well.
I have one that I hike with! It has the sos feature and two way messenger. I won’t go without it!
Awesome! Thanks! Holiday gift idea for my loved ones who hike.
Interesting....🤔 thanks for the tip
@@nocnoc9931 it’s free. If you add messaging it’s got a monthly fee
Yeah the dude's a Samurai!
I am a frequent hiker in the White Mountains of New Hampshire. There are many injuries and deaths which have occurred there due to simply being unprepared. As a solo hiker, I "pack heavy", which is to say I bring more than what is needed for the time I plan to be out. If on a day hike, I bring enough to get through the night. There are plenty of water sources, so I can get away with bringing a minimum of water, since I also have a good filtration system. Even with my experience, I remember feeling a little nauseated on my first hike of Mt. Washington on the descent. It was in August, and even though the temperature was less than 80 degrees, I knew I was showing signs of hyperthermia. A rest break of 15 minutes, and a good long drink of water, and I was fine again.
I also let my family know the exact planned route of my hike, and expected time of return, and I do not deviate from that.
Another key element here is having a GPS communicator of some type, such as my personal locator beacon. This is especially important for solo hikers like me. It's important to remember that even with a GPS device, help is still going to take several hours to get to you; sometimes even the next day, depending on weather conditions.
Bottom line- there is no such thing as being "over-prepared" in hiking.
I over-prepare too... in many areas of my life!
I've been to Mt.Washington I would never underestimate that mountain. I am a proud over-preparer, and wouldn't have it any other way!
Dr. Grande, I live east of Sacramento, and was aware of this sad case. But, I didn't know until now what their causes of death were. When this tragedy was in the local news, it was 107° and I couldn't imagine even sitting on my patio in the shade. I once lived close to San Francisco where these people were from, and the weather is much cooler. They apparently failed to check the weather inland, so they had no idea how terribly hot it would get. This was so mysterious back in August, much speculation, but now we know they were simply overcome with the dry climate and high temperature. Thank you for covering this one. 👍💜🌵🎶
That's why I really like the area I live. I reside about 7-8 minutes south of Daly City in Colma City.The temperature 🌡️ here during the summer 🏝️ ⛱️🌞 is cool weather mid 60s to 70 with many days of good ol'SF 🌫️🌁 fog.
@@jonathannixon8652 Yep, I lived in San Mateo for 40 years and got used to the cooler climate (after moving there from San Bernardino). I miss the cooler temps, but not the congestion and increased crime. I hope all is well for you these days. It was 106° today, but I've learned to hunker down and do errands early morning, or late night.
Hi Dr Grande, one point not brought up in your analysis is they hiked through a major burn area therefore much of the canopy was gone leading to increased temps.
I suppose that’s another issue us outdoorsy people must consider theses days, sadly, when planning hikes.
Well, there goes my idea that maybe they could have crawled under a bush for shade.
109 degrees? No shade? Mid summer?
Pass..!
John: Our baby turned one today, time for Mount Everest! Let’s bring the dog too and no water…couple tank tops will hold us over in -40 c
Yes. My son worked the Ferguson Fire.
I work SRS in Colorado at 8,000 ft and most hyperthermia deaths in our regions are due to the fact that the victim is on antipsychotics. There is a well-known link between antipsychotics and hyperthermia especially at altitude. I am curious since I have found no information on their meds if this could be a contributing factor. Thank you for the content. Very interesting.
Possible,but the temperature lack of water and shade was more than enough...
That is interesting. It really should be more widely known
Reminds me of the people in Alaska used to snicker about my level of preparedness when going out in the field... they always seemed to think it was overkill on my part. Of course, they were the ones who ended up having to get rescued by the Coast Guard, and be discussed television news as examples of what not to do out in the wild, and the importance of being prepared LOL. Absolute true story. Great work as usual, Dr Grande.
How many times has this happened?! You’ve met travelers along the way who then had to be rescued by the Coast Guard more than once?! Are you sure you’re not a bad luck omen??!! Loljk
People snicker and roll their eyes at me when I say 'convenience kills', but it absolutely does.
@@sparkysmalarkey “ Convenience Kills”
Perfect!
Never Heard that one before but I’m going to remember it….
Thanks 👍
Exactly! I am originally from Tasmania in Australia. Tasmania has generally mild weather in summer but around Christmas time it can snow on the highlands. Every year optimistic souls would go hiking there dressed in only their shorts and tee shirts. And freeze to death (there was no telecommunication in those days).
LG
Very tragic case. As an avid hiker I agree that it was most probably a heat stroke condition which is very sad (the dog and baby 😔).
Thank you so much Dr. Grande for all you do and have a great weekend 💚💙.
that's what I thought
This story broke my heart ; the combination of a loving young couple with a little girl and the family dog made it made it deeply tragic .Thank you so much for explaining what happened in such a calm , respectful and thoughtful manner. I needed to understand what happened and now I do; thank you. The decision to take one water bottle was particularly baffling .As an Australian where the temperature in Summer can leap 20 degrees in an hour I check the temperature almost obsessively every morning and during the day before I do anything. Everyone in my family takes more water than they need in Summer , even to go to the shops. Nature is beautiful but it can also be lethal . I hope many people learn from this families fatal mistake and lethal lack of judgement and preparation.
Concerning 'young couple', they weren't exactly 20-somethings.. Ellen was in her thirties and John was in his mid-forties. Wouldn't the ancient Greeks have said that what happened was just another case of hubris?
@@youtuber5305 hubris ? Wow ! So judgemental and harsh ! They may not have been in their 20's but Ellen Chung was 31 and as most people live into their 80's and 90's now she hadn't even lived half of her potential life so she is young (it certainly isn't old). Only 2 years ago she was in her 20's ! Jonathan Gerrish at 45 had probably lived half of his life span which once again isn't old although he could be considered mature ! But why quible about their ages when they were far far too young to die especisally when their daughter Miju was only 1 ? I see this as a tragedy but not a ":greek Tragedy" as your word "Hubris" suggests .I don't believe their is any evidence to suggest that they had foolish amount of pride or confidence just very poor judgement and poor planning and a lack of experience .The walk clearly took them longer than they expected and it clearly got far hotter far more quickly than they had prepared for . Because they left so early ( when it was only 71 celcius) and because it was clear from previous evidence that they adored their little baby girl and their lovely 8-year-old dog Oski it appears they simply underestimated their circumstances and truly believed they could complete the walk before it got too hot. I imagine they set off quite happily at first . They all loved nature and all dogs want a walk ! In normal conditions a walk of that distance should be able to be completed in an hour and a half but neither the terrain or the weather made that possible , especially without enough water. The fact a fire earlier in the year had removed the trees that might have offered them shade made things much worse . However they died only a mile and a half from their vehicle ! They nearly made it ! .....However the advice is NOT to use that trail in Summer time ! . I can't begin to imagine how 2 seemingly intelligent people living a really good life made so many poor choices on one morning that they died because of their own mistakes ! However they did make some thoughtful preparations with survival in mind . Investigators found various items in Chung's backpack including a snakebite kit, a knife, bug spray, first aid kit, extra diapers, two empty sippy cups (one had remnants of baby formula inside) .Maybe each one believed the other had brought more water ? We will never know ,but I remain heart-broken even though I didn't know them. They moved from the city to be closer to nature and in their innocense they died .
Ugh we have a one year old daughter and just thinking about her being with us in a situation like this just breaks my heart. That dad was probably trying to make his daughter laugh and smile until his very last second. I hope that they passed together at the same time so one didn’t have to live without the other. At least they are all together now ♥️
I have a hard time saying that people who died from something like this fucked up, because we all make stupid mistakes sometimes and obviously they didn't realize they were doing anything reckless before it was too late. But considering they brought their dog and daughter (who both rely on them for safety and basic needs) it's hard to imagine their lack of preparation. If you realize you only have one bottle of water before a 7 mile hike in the middle of summer, I think it's reasonable to call off the hike and do something else. Either way, it's still really sad. 😔
I don't have a problem calling people who mess up what they are. Yes, each of us messes up, but there are degrees of recklessness and consequences that parents have to be aware of.
And dog owners!🐶
I can almost understand making the mistake for themselves but I am surprised that dog owners didn’t have water for their dog.
Exactly. This is not like a random tree limb falling on someone or a sinkhole opening up. Rather, their own mistakes directly contributed towards their deaths. We must be willing to say that so that we can learn from their deaths.
For real. We do a 2 mile in a park here and have a bottle of water for ALL six ppl and one for the dog.
Lesson I’ve consistently learned from Dr. Grande and Mr. Ballen: JUST DON’T GO HIKING OR CAMPING!!!!
Also - Thank you again Dr. Grande for this great analysis as usual. The way you explain and talk about certain not-so-pleasant things always seems to make me feel a little calmer and “safer” while listening to something so highly stressful (I’m a very high anxiety, easily panicked person). You’re always extremely reasonable and logical when faced with analyzing these terrible cases, and you also precisely map out the pros and cons of different choices and actions, etc., which is just more proof of what a wonderful psychologist you are. And if I was ever in a scary situation like some of these you talk about, I’d definitely want you in my group!! 😁
No, you can indeed go hiking. The problem is when you read about a particularly interesting or beautiful trail, they always seem to be a tad longer (or hotter or colder) than you're actually fit for, but you decide to do it anyway. The trick is to go prepared--prepared to turn back before you reach your goal if your timing or other circumstances are off. Even a partial hike into the wild has its rewards.
For example, hiking down into the Grand Canyon sounds intriguing, but it is a serious and potentially dangerous hike, and not everyone can do it. We've never had the time and the preparation to so much as book a mule ride down. So one time when we were there, late in the afternoon we set a timer for 20 minutes. We hiked down at a relaxed pace for 20 minutes, and when our time was up, we actually STOPPED, turned around, and went back up. No, we didn't reach any goals or get any trophies. But we saw views you just can't see from the rim, and the views changed every few paces. We saw raptors soaring overhead, and walked through an arch. We also saw the shadows lengthening. What was sunny on the way down was in shadow on the way back up. It was enjoyable, and we have no regrets about it whatsoever.
@@exrobowidow1617 I do realize that yes, ppl go hiking and camping obviously…I was being sarcastic a bit. But you’re right - your reasonable, logical, and smart attitude make you a great candidate for hiking, etc., especially your mention of being PREPARED!! I think that’s always pretty much the main issue with all of these cases! Ppl either think they’re too smart or too good at something so they don’t prepare properly or they just don’t think. It’s so sad, cuz even just a good hour or two to prepare could save lives and also allow ppl to really enjoy a hike or camping out. You made some great points in your comment!
Agreed
Liked before watching. Already know it's going to be good. Thanks Dr. Grande!
Does he even see patients anymore? He appears to devote all his time to UA-cam.
Me too always 😉💛...here we go
Always !!!!!
Me too !
Same!!
Reminds me of the case of Casandra Bravo. People go underprepared for what they think is just a day hike and wind up dead. After the Bravo tragedy I made sure to try to be prepared at all times on the trail. I also bought a GPS device that can send an SOS at half the price of what a cellphone costs, where there is no cell service. I would wager that up in those mountains, down in that canyon, his cellphone was useless.
We visited L.A. in October 2018, and suddenly there was a heatwave, 108 degrees. We were afraid to leave the hotel. But we did go for a drive, only a short one to a shopping plaza. Walking outside from the car was nearly impossible! The air was definitely extreme but much worse was walking on the pavement, thought my shoes would melt! Only a short hop to the doors but my feet were burning! I've seen desert thermometers which measure the ground to 160 degrees when the air temp is 120. I believe that this heat difference can account for the many heat related fatalities we've been hearing about. Walking outside on super-heated ground surfaces - which absorb the sun's radiation - is nigh impossible, like walking on white coals.
And now imagine that poor dog. His feet must have beeb totally burnt
@@cordulam Exactly!! I fear that the poor little thing became so crippled and overheated but kept going despite the struggles. 😪
@@cordulamYes... let's not forget the dog..
These 2 Einsteins bring their 1 yr old child and their dog on this
UNNECESSARY, treacherous trip. An obvious case of child abuse, animal abuse and incredible stupidity.
Morning Dr.G., Thanks for the calm and reasoned thoughts…soothing voice was needed with this tragedy.
Maybe the dog died or fainted first, and they wanted to carry it back, and the weight proved to be too much with the heat and lack of water.
That’s what I’m thinking.
The dog or the child succumbed first
Well there's a thought 🤔
@@toidean633 Not a happy one. Very, very sad situation.
I remember as a as a child something I will never forget I'm used to Mexico's Heat yet one time my uncle drove to a different state on the North part of Mexico similar to Arizona hottest Heat, I was extremely shy so I wouldn't tell him that I felt I was dying out of thirst, I was so extremely extremely thirsty I remember the feeling and it is something that you just cannot even imagine. Then he said I'm going to go buy some water and I was so happy because I wouldn't ask for it because I was very shy, he got a bottle and gave it to my sister and me, I kid you not I drank that whole bottle immediately in less than a minute!!! and as I drinked it I felt extreme relief BUT only to realize that just two minutes later I was back again under the extreme need for another full water bottle, NO don't think you can just go by with a little water, orthanc if you feel fear O Let's just sip a little water so we have enough as we walk you will be in a desperate need to survive ! A person is likely to snatch and drink a whole bottle on their own out of desperation because you are literally dying inside and that's what happened to them people died a slow death do you think if you're dying you would just call me sip a little bit of water?
As a family they probably all share the water but if you are with strangers I can see how one of the people will probably become your enemy and take the water for themselves because people are literally dying minute-by-minute.
I can see how the fight and flight response would kick in.
People who have never experienced that level of heat have no idea what it feels like and how it dehydrates you IMMEDIATELY you need tons and tons of BOTTLES water you, because after you drink one in less than a minute your body needs it right again.
When I hike in areas with full sun exposure, I carry a backpacking umbrella. It has a silver coating that blocks UV rays. It can be at least 10° cooler underneath it than in full sun. 2 of these plus more water may have made the difference for this family.
So shocking especially heartbreaking are that Miju, and Oski, the two innocents suffered and died. Heatstroke is a long and brutal way to die. As an Australian we are taught about exposure, this doesn't add up, very suspicious.
education is so important
Hi Dr! Thanks for the upload as always ❤️ As a non American, it would be a really helpful addition if you could give temperatures in Celsius as well as Fahrenheit! Other imperial measurements (ie. feet, inches, pounds, ounces) aren’t an issue, but the Fahrenheit scale happens to be alien to many people outside America.
Easily converted online...5th graders have to do it in my classroom.
@@ontheprairie No need for conversion if they could just abandon these archaic systems that barely anyone uses. Everyone in the sciences uses SI units already, just get the general population to do the same.
@@BeaIEngio agree. The USA is the only country using that system yet they expect the rest of the world to do the work to convert. Typical 😂
I've got no idea what 85 ounces looks like either :-)
@@BeaIEngio thank you for getting my point! :-)
I live in California’s Central Valley; this story was relatively “local” news. The heat here in the summer is oppressive and takes acclimation. SF is easily 40 degrees cooler than the valley in the summer. In our weather, it’s best to err on the side of caution and stay hydrated so you never get behind, not to mention to always keep cool water in your vehicle at all times.
NEVER underestimate the outdoors people even the professional outdoorsman like hunters get lost there never to been seen again
You can have sympathy and empathy for people even if they made mistakes that lead to a tragedy. I don't think it is insulting to acknowledge the mistakes they made. It doesn't mean they somehow deserved what happened.
Thank you for covering this, I’ve been really curious about this case, and almost no one has covered it. Such a heart breaking case
8 mile hike with a baby?? Horrid parenting!
At the very least overly optimistic!
Realy enjoy your content, Dr. Grande! Enjoy the level headed thinking and analysis in all your videos. Calm demeanor… I can listen to your videos at any time of the day and fully grasp the storylines and the way you lay it out. Very informative… these poor people. I honestly believe they baby was likely the last to go…. Unable to help herself. Very tragic, over preparing can sometimes be a bummer especially when you come back with a full pack. Never know when the extra water, food, socks, whistle, hand warmers, cliff bars will come in handy. Never underestimate mother nature… shes the grand champion
She is a hard task master at times!
Profoundly tragic story.
An acquitance of mine went for a regular hike with her dog in the hills in a popular area with many other people there. It was on a day “that wasn’t even supposed to be that hot…” (she said). Half way back one of the hikers had to carry her 80lb dog on his shoulders to safety, but the dog died … “I even gave all of my water to the dog”, she said…
The temperature was in the 100s that day.
Besides common sense that spans ages, I wonder what lessons we could learn from the native people. How did they manage to survive without water in plastic containers and no AC in their homes?
Shade? Stay in place?…
This was just the saddest …..😥
oh no and a big dog too.... jeez
I knew people who did similar things to their sporting dogs as the weather got warmer however, people overlook that dogs have to be conditioned too… if they haven’t been exercised extensively in awhile a big long hot hike is going to be hard for them like anything else.
The natives were smart enough not to "hike" in scorching heat and European settlers brought enough provisions - I think that solves your question.
Good afternoon Dr Grande. What a sad and tragic event. It would appear that they didn't use their critical thinking skills to prepare for this situation. I feel so much sympathy for the parents and that little girl and the dog. Thank you Dr Grande Great analysis and topic.
I paved asphalt for many years. I'm telling you that hydration is literally the KEY to survive. It takes days of pounding water to pave on a hot day. If you're thirsty, it's already to late.
This makes the most sense of any analysis Ive seen. Thank you.
Very tragic situation that definitely could have been prevented. I feel so sad for the family who lost their loved ones.
Why didn't they get in the water to cool off? That one family saved themselves by drinking their own urine. Gross as it is, it saved their lives by buying them a little time.
They all died at the same time, including the dog? Why didn't the dog drink the water in the river?
I'm wondering if there was a phenomenon in that area where the heat rose higher than elsewhere.
I live in the Rocky mountains. It would never be hot up there. Drive 5 minutes up, it cools down 10 degrees. The river water is freezing all year long from glaciers. So I guess it's not like that in CA. This is so sad and so strange. Isn't there vomiting with heat stroke? I wonder if the investigators saw any?
I read that the dog was leashed to the man's body and couldn't have walked to the river even if he/she had wanted. Even if untethered, many dogs have such intense sense of loyalty and responsibility that who knows if he/she would've wandered off at all. This was a tragedy, all around!
Always be careful if a trail starts off downhill. At some point you’re going to have to go back up. If you wait until you’re tired to turn around, you’re too late.
Wow. A PSA in some respects. Thank you, Dr. Grande. So tragic and yes, 100% preventable. Know your terrain! Know your weather! Everyone have their own water source (including the dog)!
Sounds like a rather unusual circumstance considering they were hiking where they were. But it just shows mother nature can give you anything when your in the wild.
This is an intelligent response. There is no way that these people were actually reckless. I do believe they simply forgot how wild it can be.
*YOU'RE
@@zenamen5221 Not intelligent. He used the wrong word. YOU'RE, not your.
Hot tip: from lived experience, they should have stopped where they were and waited for dusk and cooler temperatures, before starting back. And, if you have no water, pick up a pebble, suck on it. It makes saliva, mitigates the craving for water.
Good info! Thank you.
They died of hyperthermia combined with dehydration which is lack of water. They did not die of "craving for water". They should have retraced their steps over the second part of the loop which was the level part and gotten back to the river and stayed at the river/in the river until dusk before making the elevation climb back to the car as you would have done but they needed to get back to the river and some shade.
Something similar happened to me. I was with three friends but we were young so a bit inexperienced. We walked through dense woods to get to the Michigan Dunes. My guess is that the temperature was in the mid 90s. First I sprayed insect repellent all over my arms and legs. I had a can of pop with me. Anyway I believe the insect repellent clogged my pores so I didn’t sweat properly. Once we had climbed several dunes I realized I was in trouble. I was quite dizzy and disoriented but I managed to make it to my savior, Lake Michigan. With all my clothes on I stumbled in and filled the empty pop can with lake water. I drank as much as I could thinking I might get a little sick but I would survive. Apparently the lake was clean because I had no ill effects. So to conclude I wish the family had taken the risk to drink the river water. Also they should have wet their clothes in the river if it was too dangerous to leave the shore.
How extremely Reckless for parents to take a baby under that heat that in itself is reckless
August in California. Go to an air conditioned mall
Dr Grande is using this as a teachable moment. Much appreciated
85 oz is a ridiculously low amount of water for all of them. My wife and I carry 3 L each for moderate hikes. Good rule of thumb: turn around when your water is down to half. If your return hike is uphill then turn back at 1/4. Such a shame.
Start with a good map of the area you want to hike in. Plan a hike that is uphill first, then later in the day come back downhill. If you can find it, choose a hike with exposure towards West for uphill and towards East for downhill (in summer, in winter reverse direction). Don't overexert - stop hiking, seek shade and stay put. Even in a treeless area you have rocks that will cast a shadow to shelter in. Continue your hike at dusk. If there's a source of fresh water and your're dehydrated drink it even unfiltered. Your gut can be cleaned up later but you need the water to survive now. Sit in the water to cool off. And most important of all: Start your hike as early in the morning as possible. The uphill part of your hike should be done no later than 10am. If necessary start with a headlamp while it is still dark.
I was hiking in the Cali Sierra Nevada in June, elevation 13,000 feet, a lot can go wrong up there, and you must have adequate water, a water filtration stick to start with. More importantly I never ever hike or hunt without a top notch satellite GPS. You never get lost or disoriented, don’t leave home without it!
In San Francisco "an outdoorsmen" is the one who makes weekend trip to the city's Golden Gate park with a bottle of water and a snack bar. In wild Sierras you should travel with satellite phone, gps, with a firearm, enough water/warm cloth, hi-calories food, wound treatment kit (not iddie-biddie bandaids). And you know the route where you going. And the weather forecast. And it is better that someone else knows where you going and when you are expected to be back. Sad story, though.
Very sad. I could not help but wonder why anyone would want to go hiking in August.
As far as I'm concerned you could have ended that sentence two words sooner.
@@eadweard. 😁 fair enough! I could have also added... who would plan an 8 mile hike with a one year old!
Yes going 8 miles is long! And they apparently didn’t check the temps for the day. If they went just 1 mike then not a big deal but 8?
I live in this part of California and the dry heat can sometimes be deceptive or if they got an early start they didn't realize how hot it can get. I have a hard time with the idea they all died this way, but I know it's also possible. It's just really shocking. I agree, this was absolutely preventable.
I live in Arizona and regularly run. Even the shortest trips can become dangerous if you're caught at the wrong time without water. Always have a plan in case of emergencies, even if you don't think you'll need it. I can run 10 miles in 100 degrees one day, but start getting heart palpatations just from walking if I'm dehydrated another day at 105 degrees.
I lived in the Sierra Nevada foothills for twenty-seven years. I also graduated from the USA Infantry Officer Candidate School (IOCS)and spent a year as a platoon leader with the 4th Infantry Division in Vietnam in the Central HIghlands. What the instructors at IOCS constantly reminded us was the "6 Ps" -- Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance" and have a Plan B. On my hikes in the Sierras I'd put on my old Army fatigues , combat boots, webbing, canteens, map. Been there and done that on those extreme forced marches in the Army. Actually, the weather in the Sierra foothills is a cake walk in summer compared to humid Georgia in the summer and the Central Highlands of Vietnam in the dry season.
A really sad case. Despite all the mistakes they made, it still seems unusual that ALL of them were found dead. Even the dog. You would think at least one of them would have survived, being as close to the truck as they were.
Dave Exactly It’s surprising all of them died and the adults must have died around the same time. The wife was probably the last one to die as she was farther ahead but not that much farther. But it was a long hike and they were near the end so I guess it makes sense they all died around the same time
There was no sign of any physical trauma on any of them. So heat stroke it is.
I don't believe the dog could die so fast. Dogs have fur that protect them from the heat, there are not shaved skin as human. Something else happened I think. The police said nobody is dead there in 20 years. Very, very strange...
@@wd1534 In fact dogs are more sensible to heat than humans. Humans are extremely resistent to heat and can walk the longest. The dog may have been the first one to collapse especially since he already was 8 years old and quite furry. Fur protects from heat but just to an extent.
@@meeramoves4404 a good test would be to go to this place a day with same temperature and drink the same amount of water, walking the same distance to see if a problem happens, (and bring more water for security of course)
Even if you are just doing a day hike, you should bring water filtration system/pump and or a lifestraw, a first aid kit, some survival food, a knife, rope, water proof jacket, and enough clothes to survive a night in the relevant climate, just in case.
🎯
In much of California, actual water is better than a water filter. Because you can't filter water that doesn't exist. Looks like this family had one access point, at the bottom of their hike, where they could have used a filter if there was water in the stream.
This is profoundly sad. Hopefully, Dr. Grande’s coverage of this tragedy will serve to warn others of the potential dangers while hiking.
I have one thought on what may have contributed to this very unfortunate event.
Dr. Grande mentioned that the father/husband was British.
Britain has, I believe, a much more moderate climate that through his past hiking experiences, may have lulled him into complacency.
Midday temperatures in Britain may not climb so radically during the day, so he wasn’t as keen to perceive this midday heat potential in the hot, arid, California climate.
My heart goes out to the families, and to this sweet little baby who never got a chance to live and grow.
Thanks Dr. Grande.
This is so sad. And I hope people realize that many of us could make this mistake. We all need to learn from this and not just shake our heads and say "How reckless! That would never happen to me!"
I’ve cycled across the USA 4 times.
I check the weather 3-4 times a day.
If I see 90 degrees in the forecast I either ride 5am to 11am or I stay put.
When it comes to hiking in 100 degrees
enuf water is almost impossible to carry.
Yesterday I walked a flat road for 18miles. 95 degrees. I drank about 1 gallon of water
I'm also experienced in hot weather cycling. I find it essential to breathe through the nose.
Yet another insightful analysis Dr Grande. I think I speak for all my fellow subscribers - bravo. It really is impressive how you produce such high quality analyses in such rapid succession. Such productivity. Also, I just finished reading enduring love, which is also a movie starring Daniel Craig. I was surprised to learn it is based on a real case of de Clérambault’s Syndrome . I'd never heard of this but it is a fascinating condition. Wondering if you might share your thoughts on it?
Out of the group, I think their dog would have succumbed first. I think they may have stopped for the dog, tried to carry him, and as you mentioned give him water. The whole time the temp is rising. They are exhausted from carrying both the baby and the dog and their water ran out b/c as
they didn't bring enough. A heartbreaking story.
What a sad story. Poor little infant.
As an avid hiker I agree with a lot that has been stated but I also find the fact that all four of them have died as rather suspicious.
That is too bad about them, they were probably just inexperienced. Couples, being isolated from others too long, can build a false sense of confidence about basically everything. Very interesting story, thank you for the video.
"couples being isolated from others"
can build a false sense of confidence - or overconfidence...
This is an interesting point, one that I had not thought of.
@@bluecollarlit It is a common occurrence that couples try to create a lifestyle inside their house/apartment. When they do this every day, they will start to become different than even a couple that is doing the same thing next door.
@@btetschner hmm, yes, I wonder if there a term for that
@@beaulieuonnp593 I just call them losers.
@@beaulieuonnp593 Isn't it strange that certain couples try telling other people that they are independent? They are extremely dependent on society to give them housing, food, protection, and all types of other things they "need." There is a chance that 100% of everything they have was made by other people.
There was water right next to them. Why didn’t drink or cool off in it?
Just so many such questions!
central California in August is hotter than hot, I can't believe that even the dog ended up dying...very sad
My first 20 mile hike resulted in great stress. i chose to double back, rehydrate , then push back to the trailhead. what was a day trip turned into 40hours. I am quite the wiser now but only because of luck.
Just a heads up for any hikers in very hot environments. You may also want to be fairly hydrated before hand in addition to bringing water with you.
Ive hiked uphill in 115 degrees. But i have experience. A lot of it. Hiking in heat. And i would never hike in direct sun when over 100. Also depends on humidity. I’m talking low humidity (which is better). I’ll go mostly late in day when sun is low and there are shadows/shade. Or really early morning. Be done by 8:30am. When i did 115 i drank 60oz in the car. Brought 30oz with me. Had another 30 in car waiting at end. Hiking midday at 105 degrees in direct sun is insane. Some ppl do it. I wouldn’t recommend. Its 105 in the shade mind u. And the ground and rocks are probably 130-160. Super heat everywhere. No relief. 80oz for for 2 adults isn’t enough. Add a dog and a BABY??? Crazy stuff. I agree. They probably thought they’d be done earlier. Shame. Deadly mistake.
Predictable. When living in Arizona, I heard of this kind of thing happening a few times each summer. You have to be pretty damn good to stay out for two hours in 100+ with just a couple bottles of water. I drink that much in a two hour meeting indoors. Always interesting when smart, successful people do careless things as they get adventurous. Ironic that they wanted their child to be closer to nature - which was their final adversary.
Concerning "smart, successful people", as I always say, many are smart, few are truly responsible.
Thank you for your honest analysis. Even if they brought nothing else, they should have had multiple water bottles for each of them, including the baby and dog.
They were unprepared. It is sad, but also their own fault.
In highschool on a roadtrip through the American West, me and some friends took ecstasy and went on a hike through Glacier National Park. A 12 mile hike. With no places to refill water. We each packed way too little water and combined with the ecstasy dehydration, it almost came to this. I will never forget the panic and desperation that sets in when you realize the likelihood of a looming painful death. Sheer terror. 15 years later and I am still way overkill cautious when it comes to having enough water on me for excursions (not limited to hikes - even drives through remote areas, etc).
This case is so strange, it almost defies the odds. 85 oz of water for 2 adults and a kid isn't a lot but it's not a small amount for a hike designed to last a few hours. That's five pints. If things go south, that water can be rationed. The crazy thing is how they all fell victim around the same time. Given how physiologies are different from person to person you'd think at least one could survive until the next day.
This still *seems* mysterious though. How could this couple have been so foolish this time? The death of the child and the dog is the most upsetting, imo.
Cemeteries are filled with people that lost against the elements. Both stupid and very smart.
I once was taken on a mini "walkabout" by a native when I visited Australia. What struck me was how he was totally unconcerned at how dehydrated we were. We didn't take any water along, it was summer but luckily we were on flat ground with shade. I think if either of us had turned an ankle or worse it could have turned out badly. There was no mobile network coverage.
While I was in Central Florida I had a rugged toy poodle I took on adventures in the woods and on paths, we walked everywhere. I kept her doused in cold water and hydrated because I knew the Florida sun and heat could seriously hurt her. Read or watch any of Cody Lundin's works about outdoor safety. Even before I could do any of that, my mother instilled in me a healthy sense of self preservation. Consequently, outdoors I watch my 6, avoid areas with blocked sight lines and never get too far from my car. That being said, all the caution in the world can't stop all miscalculations in judgement or plain old bad luck. Thank you for the efforts of SARS teams and all the organizations that help those of us lost or hurt in wilderness situations.
What a sad story!! 😔 I've hiked a fair amount and can see how this could happen. Taking the daughter was not a good move obviously. I'm sure neither of the couple could envision the potential danger - hence the ill-fated outcome.
As an EMT I find this case EXTREMELY STRANGE. Normally males and dogs are far more resilient when it comes to heatstroke and hypothermia. I’m shocked that the dog didn’t take off and fend for itself to find water in a puddle or lake. 95 degrees TYPICALLY isn’t enough to kill even the most fragile of humans, unless the exposure is PROLONGED FOR HRS AND EVEN DAYS. *The only thing that would make sense is if they had been out there SINCE SATURDAY and were lost for 2+ full days?*
They began around 8am Sunday morning at 75 degrees. By afternoon it swelled to 109. They were reported missing Monday night and found I believe Tuesday morning. I read one article that stated they were found late Monday night and two members of LE stayed with the bodies through the night so no one would disturb the scene. Also the dog was apparently chained to the dad so maybe that’s why he didn’t run off. I can’t imagine how weird it was for LE when they found them
Yes I did enjoy your analysis. I hike daily. You would be surprised how many people hike unprepared and bringing babies,toddlers and pets. Such tragedy. God Bless their families.
Thank you so much for this video. The last I heard it was the toxic algae theory which I didn't think was correct. They were both intelligent adults, but lacking common sense. I feel badly for them & the poor baby baked to death
and the dog
Two things: One, I've read a number of accounts of people dying of hyperthermia or simple lack of water next to, near or within sight of a water source that was muddy. They were too afraid to drink water that looked dangerous 0_o. Second, I have a personal experience involving lack of water brought along. When I was twenty, I was visiting relatives in southern California. My cousin who lived there suggested the three of us, me him and my little brother go hiking up 'Mt.Baldy' a local hiking spot. I wondered if we should bring some water along and my cousin said, nah, we don't need any water, but if it'll make you feel better lets bring a quart jar of water along just in case. Well, that jar of water was gone by the time we got halfway up. At the 3/4 spot, I was too tired to continue and had to stop and that age I was at my fittest ever in my life, 6'-2" and 165 lbs. Cousin and little bro continued on while I waited for them exhausted. Thankfully some hikers descending from the summit gave me some of their water. My cousin and brother suffered no ill effects from the entire journey. From what I know now about hiking in hot summer weather I would have had each of us carry a GALLON of water along.
Hiking up MT BALDY and he says, "nah, we don't need any water"??? What a jerk! Who the heck would even think that??
I watched a video about this yesterday and was surprised that their deaths were deemed a mystery, considering how ludicrously hot it was that day. If it's over 70 degrees, I don't leave the house unless I've got sun factor 50 and a load of water. By the time the time it had got into the 90s, I'd have turned back, (had I been insane enough to decide that hiking was a good idea in that heat).
I feel awful for all of them but it was SO avoidable...
People died from stupidity. Poor planning, poor decisions, lack of forethought, lack of common sense.
I wouldn’t take my baby and my dog on a one mile hike in 100 degrees. What dummies.
What a terrible way to die.
Thanks, Doc.
In my home country, there's a reason why we carry an umbrella even in the summer. It's not so we could be covered from the rain if that happen but also use it as a portable shade for such a humid day.