Jessica literally used the voice on Chani to force her to donate her tears. It couldn’t have been louder in the cinema when she demands “do it” like emperor palpatine
Yeah. I've still only seen the film once, so I may have gotten things slightly muddled, but the core of what I wasn't too pleased with in that scene, was the use of Sihaya itself.
@@secretsofdune I’d really recommend seeing it again. I hadn’t made my mind up on the first viewing (BFI 70mm), having been over analysing scenes and book changes, and as a result didn’t really get to fully enjoy / appreciate the experience, but knew I was watching a fantastic movie. It was the second time (IMAX Laser at Odeon) when I couldn’t help but smile knowing I was watching such an incredible, immense adaptation of my favourite book series and it firmly cemented itself as one of the best theatrical experiences I’ve ever had. Picked up on a lot more too, such as Chani’s hinted death being a catalyst of Paul’s actions. I LOVE the choice to have Paul’s visions of the holy war be implicitly told rather than explicitly (which we receive in the book) through the palpable weight he carries as a result of opening his mind post drinking the Water of Life
Yeah I think I might have mixed up in my head when she mentions the Sihaya legend and what she did during the scene, probably because I was in my own head while watching it and probably being over analytical haha.
@@secretsofdune I think this is the case for everyone who cares a lot about the source material so I completely understand. I made sure to book two viewings on a Monday and Tuesday as I was very aware that I probably would be too caught up in changes and nitpicking choices the first time around because I had such a strong image of the story in my head (and had anticipated the film for years - which if it didn’t deliver would be another gut punch like GoT was those years ago). So on first viewing I was slightly anxious and was deciding at every moment whether it was as good or better than expected / if I liked the vision. Second viewing where I knew what was coming and had time to digest the first viewing, I was over the moon and in disbelief really at what Denis has managed to achieve.
What i really love is a scene when (again and again) Denis use Paul's hand when describes that he see all possible future and flip it to explain that he see a narrow way! Dont know why but every scenes in his film use his hand or foot to deliver his visual language is the reason i love his films. It's a signature that made his film feel special to me.
Not sure if you also noticed that just before the atomics are launched, Stilgar holds his hand up in a practically identical way that Paul does when he says "a narrow way through." I felt like it was a nice, subtle callback to path Paul saw and how it included Stilgar right from the get-go.
The continued focus on Paul’s sensory experience through his hand in Part Two made me recall the shot on the beaches of Caladan, where Paul submerges it in water for the final time. Also evokes the Gom Jabbar test where Paul also saw his hand burnt and charred.
Dune is a dense and complex novel, very difficult to adapt on screen. So I think they did a good job at capturing the main themes and essence of the story, while still making it accessible and entertaining for those who have not read the book. Yes! Villeneuve's Dune is a major achievement in filmmaking that is sure to be remembered for years to come.
@@user-ADystop That's funny cause I don't remember reading about those weirding modules or Paul's victory causing rain to fall on Arrakis. I still enjoy its camp and cheese thou. The syfy miniseries is a safe, by the books, adaptation of Dune. Still enjoy it but the costumes, sets and some of its cast just breaks the immersion for me. Dune warns against the dangers of religious fanaticism and extremism. Neither of the previous adaptations managed to get this point across, whereas Villeneuve's Dune did, flawlessly.
Pretty sure Jessica was the sole reverend mother. The same way in the book how one reverend mother passes the baton to another. All the others surrounding after that seemed to me to simply be constituents or devout followers.
According to Dune Part Two concept artist Keith Christensen, the art at 3:55 was described as "Designs for the Reverend Mothers" and the other design seems to be on another woman in the actual shot at 3:50. Either way I still think it has generated some confusion and I think they put those designs in there to hint that there are more Reverend mothers controlling other Sietches in different locations. Stilgar did say "our reverend mother" is dying, but theirs is only "one tribe" according to this portrayal in Dune Part Two.
@@secretsofdune This may be a consequence of Denis and writers expanding on Fremen in this adaptation to better suit the next books. The new interpretation of secular vs religious fremen is great for a Messiah film, but I think they made many Reverend Mothers to account for this expansion. But at the same time this change isnt entirely clear, we see Jessica being the only one to sit during Paul's duel. We also never see these other Reverend Mothers the way we see Jessica, she's given a sense of royalty and the others never really seem equal to her in that way.
Right to your points about Jessica @@hypocriticalsatire3966 - she is kind of singled out. It's not a drastic change. I just thought that her importance as the sole reverend mother of Arrakis might be used later on in Messiah to further show her importance. The ambiguity of the other women if they are reverend mothers isn't a major issue all things considered though.
Also in Irulan's journal entry (I believe the second on she does in the movie) she notes about finding out about Muad'dib's rise among the southern Fremen, via Bene Gesserit "agents" that are embedded in the tribes. In that statement I don't think Irulan explicitly states these agents are full Revered Mothers, but its stands to reason that if Sietch Tabr has their own, then other tribes can have them as well.
Just been re-reading the book and noticing how many small visual moments and lines of dialogue Denis managed to incorporate into the movie; for instance the eerie vision of the Fremen worshipping the enshrined skull of Duke Leto recovered from Arakeen, which is a quick reference in the book but appears in the film. When Denis says the book was their Bible on set, I believe him. Yes there were some narrative changes made to ensure the material translated to a wholly impactful cinematic experience but the urge to respect and honour the book is clear to see.
When I saw the first film, I liked it a lot, but was upset by how much was not explained or mentioned (mentats, ancestral memory, AI ban etc.) BUT THEN I considered to fully adapt the book and all the subplots you would need a 10-12 episode season ala Game of Thrones. So if you consider they took so much material and crammed it into a little over five hours and it still works, it's actually a triumph.
Second viewing makes it so much better. Once you know and understand the choices they made, wether we agree with it or not, and you accept to watch the movie for what it is, it’s an amazing experience. It was a 8/10 after my first viewing and a 10/10 after my second one. Great cinematic achievement that deviates a bit from the source material.
Yeah I definitely think you're right. I also just keep getting the feeling that I want to bring Dune Part Two home, I want to own it, I want to watch it several more times.
You are absolutely right. I saw the movie 3 times already. The third time was the best cinema experience ever. I love every second of it. And I understand all changes. If we want more movies like Dune they must be accessible not only for hardcore fans but for regular mobie goers. Denisecdid fantastic job. For me it's masterpiece
Even if that’s the case, I still think it’s a strange use of the term Sihaya. That is the term that Paul should have given Chani in their relationship, it was never a strange Fremen belief.
I think Dune Part One is a better adaptation, but Part Two is the better movie. As for the Desert Spring tears scene, she absolutely is not a believer in the prophecy (as she literally says in the scene), but Jessica forced Chani to go to the sietch in order to fulfill that part of the prophecy. I still don't like that Chani doesn't like the name. I always interpreted it as a lover's name from Paul
It is a love name 100% but it seems to have become yet another fremen myth lie created by the bene gesserit which I’m not a fan of in that case. This also has future implications too.
I've seen the movie 4 times. Each time I notice some new details that make me appreciate the movie even more. There are some scenes I get filled with emotions to the point of almost shed a tear... and I'm not really an emotional person. I adore this film.
Go see the movie again, and leave the book reader at home. I left confused first time, went next day to see it again and end up leaving in awe this time and bought another ticket for few hours later.
@@secretsofdune since you read the dune books, would you say that a huge chunk or portion of visible Islamic inspiration or influence was left out of the movie? including some Hindu/Buddhist mixes Aswell? like for example, some fremen viewed the worm as a big enemy and sometimes referred to it as " shaytain".
@@Kwisatz-Chaderach no she didn’t, she was arguing with Jessica saying along the lines “you do it, you caused this” that’s when Jessica used the voice on her
*** THE PARALLEL BETWEEN JAMIS' BATTLE SCENE, AND THE BIRTH OF THE LISAN AL-GAIB*** This is very similar to the story of Moses in the book of Exodus in the Jewish Scriptures in the Bible. I) Moses sees an Egyptian flogging and beating up a Hebrew slave. He was born and brought up in Egypt and safeguarded by Pharaoh's daughter, in the palace - he is an prince for all means and purposes. However, he is a Hebrew slave, not an Egyptian! ---> The burial of the Egyptian soldier / slave master on the sand is a metaphor. The person who is actually being buried on the sand of Egypt is the Egyptian Moses (with his identity complexities and difficulties growing up in the palace of his oppressors) so that Moses the Liberator can be born. The same applies to Paul and Jamis. Jamis dies, but who is actually, de facto, passing away is Paul, ***the Duke's son from Caladan - half Atreides, half Harkonnen***, so that Paul Muadib Atreides, the Lisan Al-Gaib is born. The conduit vessel must be destroyed so that the substance within is completely revealed. The Lisan Al Gaib.
I believe the cielagos were actually in the film. When the Harkonnen raid Sietch Tabr they are using flamethrowers upwards and there are burning creatures falling onto the ground. Kind of reminded me of the scene in Fifth Element of the maintenance people using flamethrowers before the ship takes off.
From what I’ve seen, as far as I know those were birds. Maybe they were changed to be message carriers, but I thought they were simply part of the “cave of birds.”
11:01 By this scene, I couldn't help but laugh and think of "Life Of Brian": > "I AM NOT THE MESSIAH!" < "Only the true Messiah denies his divinity!" > "ALRIGHT I AM THE MESSIAH!" < "HE IS!! HE IS THE MESSIAH!!"
I didn't care for the abbreviated timeline. I really wanted more time in the desert. Three movies for one book might be overkill in some instances (cough, cough The Hobbit) but I could absolutely sit through a three part rendition of Dune.
@@bhoops13 ITA. I could've watched 6 hours of that type of movie making and had more back story and see the navigators. I hope there are series that go into the back story of Dune. And may I say I am not gay but I would consider it with choices like Chani and Irulan. Paul is so damn lucky. The casting was fantastic. I liked in this version Chani didn't accept his decision to wed Irulan and she was angry and took off. I know in the book he took the guy he killed wife on. That is Fremen culture but Irulan was stepping outside of Fremen culture and Chani thought Paul had completely accepted Fremen culture. Anyway I really loved this adaptation and I don't think it could've been better unless there was more.
I think you're correct. I loved these movies for what they are, yet i do think the potential is still out there for a superior adaptation of just the first book alone. One that includes more of the political tension of the galaxy, between the Great Houses, House Corrino, CHOAM and the Guild, and that further explores the esoteric ecological connection of the Worms to the Spice and the heartbeat of galactic civilization, and how Paul comes to see beyond all the petty machinations and explicitly threatens to destroy galactic civilization at the climax of the story. Based on how these two Denis movies ran 5+ hours.. I'd say you probably need a 10 hour series for Book 1, and realistically it would have to be an animation to have a budget that a studio would actually consider funding
Thank you James. I completely agree with your suggestions too. I think this could be an incredible anime series for example which would naturally allow for the internal monologues to be portrayed on screen.
I don't think it's suggested in the book she's the only Reverand Mother on Dune, it's suggested she is the Reverand Mother of Sietch Tabr . They are moving to the south and it's not good to do so without "their" Reverand Mother to me that always meant the other Siethches had their own Reverand Mother.
I agree that it is not very clear in the book and so it is okay to play around with that, but I would have preferred if the film made a definitive decision that she was the sole reverend mother to unite all Fremen tribes, and the reason I say this is so that her status is elevated even more in Dune Messiah. But that was only a nit-pick I have to say and it's not something drastic. At the end of the day she is still "The Mother of Lisab al-Gaib" that is status enough.
@@secretsofdune in movies visual medium placement is everything notice Jessicas placement with the other Reverand Mothers she's out front always. That is depicting status, she's the one they fallow. I understand where you are coming from thou. Movie is not perfect we all would make different choices because different things from the books spoke to us. All in all, a great movie.
I really think that Austin Butler deserves an Oscar for his portrayal of Feyd Rautha. For me, the best scene was when Feyd started laughing hysterically as Lanville was trying to shove a knife into his face. Quite a disturbing scene, but Austin Butler portrayed Feyd's insanity with perfection.
i didnt mind the changes that much. I can see what Denis was going for. Chani for example is very much set up to be the one to kill paul. The visions of her in her wedding dress im guessing stabbing him is going to be the end of messiah/Part 3. I dont mind we didnt get baby alia. Thufir with his very little screen time in Part 1 is all but forgotten about by part 2. Same for Yueh and even Duncan. That sucks but i can understand why. You have to focus on the big beats. I dont think we will get Navigators or anything else too weird for Part 3. Maybe theyll start easing it in with the TV series? People arent ready and never will be ready for just how weird the books are despite what some think. G Prime was great but it only touches the weird it doesnt fully embrace it. With how these films are Grounded sort of they have to keep that consistent and from whative seen in interviews Denis himself doesnt really like the weird stuff and if he does he understand it cant really work on film for the mass public. i do really hope they STOP after part 3. the last thing i want is Hollywood to take over and Milk Dune til people are bored of it and becomes the travesty that is modern day star wars. that line of pauls about chani "she will come to understand. I have seen it" also doesnt mean she still wont kill him in the end. As long as he stays who he is, she will love him. In the end he changes and becomes a harkonnen(his words) so that love is gone and she knows what she has to do. Im fine with that for this version but i do wish they kept it a bit more faithful and have her still be there in the end and with time, understand he has to die and thats what breaks her heart.
If the significant thing is these movies get people into the books, then they accomplished a great thing. My favorite things are Paul's speech, the lighting, Feyd being both dark and honorable, Jesica being a power mom (whether Paul liked it or not), the lighting, and the music. Things that fell flat were the lack of time jump, the last scene, no Mentats, no Harah (my favorite minor character), and only a glimpse of the inside of a sietch.
Always great commentary. I appreciate your perspective on each of the topics you covered. I will mention a couple of scenes that were somewhat overlooked in reviews but very powerful. The first is the way Jessica, as the new Reverend Mother with lots of new powers, recoils (as the light dims) in the face of her son's ascension as the Kwisatz Haderach. It's only a moment in the movie, but powerful. The second is the transformation of Jessica's face after she drinks the water of life. How her face became swollen and distorted. It was amazing acting and cinematography. I've seen the movie four times now and with each successive viewing I noticed elements of the movie I didn't see or appreciate in earlier viewings. It's just an amazing work. Period. Thank you again. I await your next analysis!
Thank you. I appreciate it. I’m loving how people are getting more out of the movie upon more viewings. In fact I’m going to delay my part one and two combined review until I’ve seen the film several more times to truly give justice to the review.
@@secretsofdune I really look forward to it! BTW, I'm sure you are aware that you have a very hypnotic voice. I've heard that there are people whose voice elicits ASMR (autonomous sensory meridian response) in an audience. I don't know much about it, but I think your voice fits that bill. Take care
***ENTRANCE TO THE THRONE'S ROOM**** Brother, thank you for this! When you refer to the entrance of Paul in the throne's room, the imagery is ASTOUNDING. 1)BLACK (HARKONEN): The Baron dies as he tries to ascend to the throne, the Baron is crawling on the floor, but the silky BLACK robe still underpins the brutal regality and sensuality of the character. Drunk in his pursuit of power. Died on the steps of the throne. Unable to move, but still attempting to crawl to the throne. 2) SILVER (EMPEROR): The Sandaukar are lined up, the Emperor and Princess Irulan lined up (What a dress Florence Pugh was wearing there and then!) - the tones of SILVER in the half-lit room were stunning. A nod to warfare, chivalry, and royalty in war times. 3) FREMEN (ORANGE DUST) : Then the Anti-Christ figure of Paul Usul Muadib Atreides walking through the dusty orangey room - a nod to spice melange in the air, a nod to the orange of Arrakis, but also the dirt of battle, dust and blood. An Anti-thesis to the SILVER theme (see above!). The lack of clarity (i.e. the dust) points to the times of uncertainty, the lack of vision though is not a deterrent to the firm steps of Paul who straddles through the room, and commands it, even if he is NOT different in the slightest from any of his fighters / Fedaykin. He is another Fremen in the Room. A prophet, a duke, an emperor in the making, but still no different from any of his followers.
Chani wasn't 100% willingly doing the Water of Life thing on Paul in the film. She probably knew what needed to be done, but Jessica explicitly used the voice on her and made her do it. Now whether Jessica's liberal use of the Voice on people in this movie is OK or not is up to how you would characterize Jessica in the script. She seems to be a little less passive than she is in the book. So no, Chani doesn't really act out-of-character.
Okay but the way interpreted it after one viewing (and I could be wrong) was that Chani was acting on an inherent belief in the Sihaya legend and was just compelled to act on it through Jessica’s use of the voice. When there are many changes to the way things work and are done in the movie compared to the book, it can form confusions like these. Is the voice more powerful on the movie than on the book? Does it also cause people to believe in pre existing legends when they normally wouldn’t. I don’t know.
I have a grasp of basic logic, I’m just trying to navigate what I think about every element I’ve seen in the film based on first impressions. I may understand better on a second viewing.
14:51 It was said that Chani sorta backtracked on her non belief of the prophecy. This seems to be incorrect, because Chani didn't want to do this action, but Lady Jessica used THE VOICE to make her do it. There was no FREE WILL in that action
best sci-fi movie of all times... still not a tenth of a % of the reading experience which tells you just how immensely powerful the reading experience can get.
She did, but the voice only compelled her to participate, not to believe in the pre existing fremen legend surely. She just said do it. Unless the voice has more power than in the book… if that’s the case it’s an even worse implication because it means they are saying the term sihaya which should be a loving term between Paul and Chani was a bene gesserit missionaria protectiva myth. In that case I’m not a fan of that change.
there are definitely some things I would have done differently in the movie but overall I think it's fantastic and about as close to perfect as we could realistically expect. I will say I strongly dislike Denis's policy of never releasing deleted scenes/a director's cut. I understand cutting material bc it is a rather long movie and a wider audience might be turned off by that, but pretty much every big Dune fan I've talked to would have sat through 5 hours of this happily.
I rewatched Lawrence of Arabia before I watched Dune part 2 a 3rd time, since Denis credited LoA as one of his inspirations, and I noticed another impossible feat for Denis to pull off - to build up Paul as the Mahdi of the Fremen with sufficient time to make it believable. In Dune pt 2, I felt a little bit like Paul had it too easy in the movie - he fought a few fights victoriously, built up his legend, seeds of prophecy were planted, gave a speech and talked about some private details of the Fremen that he got from his genetic memories/visions, then he's the de facto Lisan Al-Gaib. Whereas in Lawrence of Arabia, Aurens had to go through quite an arduous journey to earn the Bedouin tribes' trust, that near the end, when Aurens convened a council of the different tribes together after taking over a city (I think Damascus?) from the Ottomans, it felt earned - although that scene itself was comical in the sense of how (perhaps an orientalist subtly racist portrayal) difficult the tribes were to manage.
Herbert not only spoke about the DANGERS of messianic leaders, but of religion as well, represented by the Bene Gesseret. and Denis is basically focusing on both main themes from Herbert’s books. and to say Stilgar being the comic relief is being disrespectful to what Javier and Denis is trying to do for the part. Stilgar is the very representation of religious fanaticism that is beyond reason.
Did someone say Stilgar being the comic relief is being disrespectful? That Stilgar you mention is moreso in Children of Dune. Characters need time to develop.
Remember that Chani was commanded to help Paul by Jessica, who used the voice on her. So perhaps her apparent conviction was a measure of Jessica’s skill as a Bene Gesserit
One small detail that really bothered me is when the Emperor tells Paul that he killed Leto " because he was a weak man". That's the complete opposite of the book! It's especially frustrating, because earlier, Mohiam gives Irulan an explanation that's much more in line with the book.
***THE REVEALING OF A HARKONEN LINEAGE*** I have interpreted that (i) scene when Paul is discussing with the Lady Jessica (now Reverend Mother Lady Jessica) and reveals his Harkonen lineage as (ii) IMMEDIATELY JUXTAPOSED to the scene of the Amtal and the battle between Paul Atreides and Jamis. Why? Well here is my take on it: Paul Atreides must die so that the Kwisatz Ha-Derech is born. Paul Atreides is a Harkonen- Atreides human, with Bene Gesserit-Mentat capabilities. Metaphorically though, that archetype is just a vessel to hold the infinite possibilities of the Kwisatz Ha-Derech. Before the Amtal scene, you will remember the voice: "when you take a life, you take your own - rise!". House Atreides fell in the battle of Arakeen, House Harkonen is on the way out, the Fremen are rising. How can Paul come to terms with being half-Harkonen? Well, he sublimates that by believing it is simply an organic, biological corpus-vessel to host the "mind who bridges space and time".
Another great video! As you said at the beginning, whether you like the changes or not, the love and care for the source material comes through more than most book to film adaptations. The change I loved the most was making Chani a nonbeliever that Paul is the Mahdi, but cares for him because of his clear compassion for the Fremen. I know people have strong opinions when deviating from the source, but I always thought when reading the book that Chani would have better served the story as a cautionary voice for her people, and not just another naïve follower. What I missed the most from the books was the roll of spice in the Dune world. Even a few extra minutes of run time would have been well worth the time spent showing the Spacing Guild, Navigators, and the actual importance of spice in the Dune universe. I've had to explain more than once why spice is so critical in this story. All in all, this movie feels more like Raiders of the Lost Ark to me than Star Wars. All parties involved are clearly having the time of their lives making this film, and that shows in every frame. Just think how this could have gone...
I agree with you about making Chani a skeptic. That's also one of the things I enjoyed most about this adaptation. But I don't think that we needed to see the Guild in the final act like we saw them during the ceremony of the change in part one. I like to believe that they're in their Heighliners orbiting Arrakis watching things unfold. Hopefully we'll get to see the Guild Navigator Edric in Messiah. They did explain the importance of spice in part one, that's why I think that people need to watch both films and pay attention to get the full picture. “For the Fremen, spice is the sacred hallucinogen which preserves life and brings enormous health benefits. For the Imperium, spice is used by the navigators of the Spacing Guild to find safe paths between the stars. Without spice, interstellar travel is impossible, making it by far the most valuable substance in the universe.”
@@brotherjohnnyxXxX I think what I missed most was just the creepy, other worldly vibe that the Spacing Guild and Navigators brought to the story. Denis has proven that he can pull off the weirder elements of the novel with real intensity, and without feeling campy. I would've loved to have seen how he would have depicted those elements (aside from the quick 'herald of the change' scene from Pt. 1) from the book. They did mention that spice use was required to navigate the universe, but that went over the heads of most people I know who saw the first film multiple times, but did not read the book.
Yes, the lady Jessica, who - in every other adaptation - is portrayed as a powerful BG but positive mother-figure, has a dark side. I do not doubt her love for Duke and Paul, but being Leto's concubine and breeding Atreides offspring is part of the secret BG-agenda. She never told the Duke about the Kwisatz Haderach. Her loyalty to her sisters is stronger than her loyalty to the Atreides. Thufir sensed that something is off about her and in the years after the attack he always thought, that she was the traitor. How she (and Paul) uses her role and the prophecy to brainwash and manipulate many fremen into joining the revenge attack, is very sinister. I applaud D. Villeneuve to show us the Bene Gesserit for what they really are: An evil and manipulative congregation of power-hungry witches! DV even goes as far making the BG ultimately responsible for wiping out the Atreides, which is a major deviation from the book. I hope in "Messiah" the role of the guild in the Atreides downfall becomes clearer.
@@secretsofdune, The Padisha Emperor Shaddam the IV cooked up the scheme of the Atreides ruin with the Harkonnens, and had the blessings of the Spacing Guild (CHOAM). The Spice Navigator (Engineer) foresaw the fact that Paul Muad'ib would sabotage the production of Spice on Arrakis, and demand his assassination. What isn't mentioned is the fact that the Spice is addictive. Once an individual is addicted, there's no going back. If an addict stops consuming it, they die. Including the Spacing Guild Navigators (Engineers).
As a movie, it is truly superb. As an adaptation, I feel I could have done more. Both movies have more or less the same runtime as the SyFy miniseries, yet there are many many things missing from the book.
To properly create a book-to-film version of Dune, you need at least 12 hours. I love the films, but there were many disappointments in how Denis transferred the story to film. The only aspect I actively disliked was the reinterpretation of Chani. It was completely at odds with the culture of the Fremen and destroyed the underlying romance of Paul and Chani and how she guides him--completely killing the end of the book in Jessica's observations of Irulan and her position with Paul compared to Jessica's and Chani's concubine roles as wives, not figureheads. In the end, Denis' Dune is a beautiful 5-hour **Art Film.**
S of D, I agree with you about Rebecca Ferguson’s A+ performance. I was continuously impressed by Javier Bardem’s expressions, as Stilgar, as he recognized all the signs of the Lisan al Gaib with such fervor.All the actors werei impressive! During moments of triumph-Paul’s first sand worm ride & the Fremen charging forth on the worms-the Dune theme music plays & my heart just expands with emotion❤ Another scene I like is Feyd Rautha walking thru the corridor & thinking Lady Margot is following him. She has manipulated his mind, which he soon realizes. It was skillfully played out, to me. I’ve watched Dune 2 many times!
I disagree about Chani's tear. I think it was a good addition. It isn't necessarily about the prophesy, but that she is deeply loved by Paul, and that is the only thing that would reach him, whether he changed or not. I disagree with much you expressed. Guild Navigators would likely involve too much CGI, which is not what Villeneuve wants. This is merely an INTERPRETATION and he exceeded expectations. This is NOT a sequel, nor does it feel like one. Why can't people see that this is one whole film?! It's maddening.
It's sad that the more that Denis expands on Dune in his own ways, the more that gets left on the cutting room floor. I think these movies, more than any other in his filmography, NEED extended editions. And I say that as someone who thoroughly enjoyed both parts. But it's ironic that someone who understands the first book needed to be two parts because, as he puts it, it's a novel that takes its power in its details, that he's trimming down so many of those details without even considering the option of doing an extended cut. He's his own double-edged sword. Knowing that the book needs room to breathe, but not giving his own adaptation the same opportunity because of his romantic notion of only ever doing one cut and that when he cuts something out of a movie "it's dead to him." These are great movies already, and Denis is still a great filmmaker. But they're still not at their full potential, and if Denis isn't going to release the unabridged version of his vision, then I feel left waiting for an adaptation that'll take the source material to its absolute limit. Perhaps an adult animated adaptation that can find that balance between Villenueve's grounded historical inspired take with the psychedelic influences of Jodowosky, David Lynch, and the 60's and 70's.
@Unriven I don't see why WB themselves wouldn't be interested, especially considering Part Two is an even bigger financial success than Part One before even finishing its theatrical run. Big studios are always looking to squeeze out extra profit from any property they see as viable. I don't think the question of doing extended versions really comes down to whether the studio would want to do it or not, considering Dune is expanding upon the Lord of the Rings in space comparison in the pop culture zeitgeist, a trilogy that very famously got extended versions of their films. And considering Villenueve shoots things mostly practically, the post-production costs to finish cut scenes would be at least somewhat less costly than most modern-day blockbuster budgeted movies. I think it would really come down to Villenueve himself not having an interest in alternate cuts of his own movies that would be the main roadblock to getting extended editions rather than the studio itself.
Thank you for this video. I've watched so many different UA-camrs talk about the various themes imbued in the book. Very few have been as informative as this. Chapeau a toi mon gars.
Thank you for the kind words and for watching. I wanted to cover as much as I could without making the video 3 hours long haha. I also wanted the video to reflect all aspects and opinions people have of the film, the positive and negative feedback because I believe it all matters and is part of the experience.
After watching Dune Part 2, one thing always resonating with my head and that is: Lisan al Gaib! What an Epic movie it is! The scale of this film so so massive. It looked more expensive than Star wars, Avengers, Avatar and on par with The Lord of the Rings. Can't believe they made it with just budget of $190 million dollars. Wished it had more longer battle and fight sequences, but that's not a problem, whatever I see of it blew my mind away. That's what makes this movie unique and differentiated from other so called popcorn blockbuster generic movies. I'd love to re-watch Dune Part 2 but I can't coz I will have to travel 300km again back to the nearest city with so much hassles from my village. So I am gonna be watching it again when it comes to digital.
I'm gonna start using the phrase "Lisan al-Gaib!" when impressed by absolutely anything. Mo Salah scores a decent goal for Liverpool? Lisan Al-Gaib! Rob Brydon does a convincing Tom Jones impression? Lisan al-Gaib!. I get a tax rebate from the revenue? Lisan Al-Taxman! Let it be known I am not a man without faith.
Denis explains in an interview why Feyd's teeth are black. Since their sun is black, to portray that, they filmed all their daylight scenes in Infared to really show the contrast of thr white and black. He admits the black teeth was unintentional but liked the way it looked. He admits it was a bold move to film this way as there is no way to reverse it, other than filming all the scenes over again
I get the explanations of a Black Sun, but not the black teeth. Some Harkonnen teeth are not black and Feyd's teeth are still black on Arrakis with a normal sun and in the interiors of Giedi Prime.
I am conflicted about the film, tho less so now that I've seen it twice in IMAX and plan to watch it at least one more time in the theater. On the one hand, I thought the movie was epic, wildly entertaining and I had a great time, which flew by. The movie did NOT feel like it was 2 hrs 46 mins long. However, I was left a bit cold by the ending, I wasn't a fan of the changes in Chani, who, in the book, was studying to become the next reverend mother before Jessica showed up and took her place. She was a true believer and only began to show doubt in Messiah. That being said, I think her and Paul's relationship can be mended early in Part 3, if they use Alia's birth as a vehicle for bringing Jessica and Chani together, where Jessica can explain to her that she could never have married Paul, just like Jessica wasn't Leto's wife, then give Chani a modified version of the Wives Speech, upon which she convinces her to give Paul another chance and join him off-planet to fight by his side in his campaign against the Great Houses. She could be unknowingly pregnant and lose the baby in battle, bringing her and Paul closer together, determined to start a family. Cut to 16 years later, the two are ruling from Arrakis and are still trying to conceive. That's when the intrigue begins. Villeneuve should make the rest of the movie follow the basic plotline of the book, but ramp up the palace intrigue to peak GoT level tension, until the final, tragic conclusion. We should leave the theater exhilarated, awed and heartbroken in the most satisfying way possible.
Yeah it was definitely the best cinematic experience I’ve ever had, since part one anyway. I was completely immersed in the world and in awe. However, there’s definitely a lot that could’ve been done to enhance it - it should’ve been at least half an hour longer, we should’ve got more spice navigators and interstellar travel stuff, the emperor and to some degree Irulan didn’t feel like royalty - there was no decadence to them whatsoever and it just felt like a strange choice to make, also I do feel like Florence Pugh was miscast as Irulan, but she did a fine job anyway. The Harkonnens were all completely wasted, Feyd somewhat less so but they were reduced to marvel-esque villains in part two, whereas in the first movie the Baron had an air of mystery and felt more menacing. I do actually like the way they handled Alia, and that cameo was genius. Everything else was great, but it seriously needs an extended cut
Thanks for your grounded thoughts and opinions while still enjoying the movie. I think that's what some people fail to see. Someone who has some issues or things they don't like about the movie can still be classed as someone who enjoyed the movie and the experience. Some people are being way too harsh towards those who say they don't like a point or two about the film, almost like a blind fanatical follower ;)
I have a lot of nitpicks with both Part 1 & 2. BUT, that said........ they are the best films I have seen since LotR. My biggest complaint in Part 1 was the Shadout Mapes scene. Its ALMOST perfect. But when Jessica goes to put the knife away, Mapes says that it cannot be sheathed without drawing blood. When they skipped that in the movie I figured that it was a choice to leave out that bit of lore. BUT BUT, at the end of the film when Paul and Jessica meet the Fremen the Fremen all cut themselves before putting their knives away......... Yes..... its a nitpick. But I just want some internal consistancy.
@@azmodanpc yes, I said that. Thats the issue. Is that they do it in one scene but not another. internal consistancy. Script Super should have caught that.
I’ve been a dune fanatic since 1995 when I first started reading the series at 15 years old. I’ve been trying to get people into Dune ever since so now that the second film is finally out and I’ve seen it twice, I couldn’t be happier.it’s almost a perfect film. My favorite part is Jessica. She was absolutely terrifying. I wanted so much more of her character. I also of course liked Feyd. I love the change that Timothy played in Paul’s character after he drank the water of life. He was almost a completely different person which is exactly what should’ve happened. Of course I got chills when he stood up and told everyone that no one could defeat him. I like the changes they made with Chani as well. The sand worm riding test was a religious experience. The only bad parts of the film mainly had to do with poor casting choices. Just like the poor casting choice of Aquaman as Duncan Idaho in the first film, in part two Christopher Walken should never been cast as the emperor. He was too old and threw off the scenes he was in. Personally, I would’ve cast the bad guy in Casino Royale has the Emperor. Believe it or not, I also thought, Josh Brolin did a mediocre job in the part two film and I think most of it was because of poor casting for that role. I like him and a lot of movies but I don’t think he was right for Dune parts one and two. But the cinematography, VFX, editing , sound and music, special effects, language, costumes, were just so good and Dune part two that it made me want to live in that world. It made me want to watch a 10 part 10 hour series just going over the first book. Instead of making a trilogy, they should give the Director a ton of money to put Dune Messiah and children of Dune in a TV series. I would die a happy man if that happened ha ha. Love your channel. I can tell you love Dune as much as I do.
Let's be honest. The original book moves pretty fast after Paul takes the Water Of Life, too. It's a bit harder to notice because the book gives us more characters that we've had time to get to know (for example, Feyd has been developing since an early chapter of "Part 1," and Thufir has a proper exit), but go ahead and count the pages and then compare with the rest of the book. It's AMAZING how quickly everything comes together and resolves. I don't disagree that it's a flaw in the plotline, but it's not Denis's flaw. I think the movie handled it well. Aside from deleting Thufir (I wanted to see him refuse the command to kill Paul, dammit! 😢). And, I totally thought Alia was gonna be a mocap character like Gollum too. Ah well. C'est la vie.
If they added the Thufir scene in, and other elements like showing the Emperor's ship set up the Sardaukar camp instead of cutting straight to it already set, maybe it wouldn't have felt like it wasn't fast? Still yes things do fall into place quickly in the book too I guess so you're probably right about that.
In my language we call Egypt, Mısır. I believe that comes from Arabic. Well, we have a lot of words that are coming from Arabic but this one is new to me. Also, Stilgar says "as it is written" a few times in the movie but there is not a reference to "a book". I believe it is meant to be a Kur'an reference.
frank herbert admits most roots of the fremen are Arabic and that the pillars and the element of their faith is predominantly Islamic with Buddhist and Hindu influences and mix as well, like prana pindu etc.
Two of those changes you dislike were ones that I really appreciated. Those would be what they say about the Harkonnen lineage and the secularism of the younger Fremen. House Atreides is defined almost entirely by its good points in Part 1 -- especially Leto, who loves his family and saves his miners, but doesn't enjoy framing his enemies or say he will exploit the Fremen like in the novel. Meanwhile, the Harkonnens are as sick as a PG13 rating allows. This is the simple good-evil contrast Irulan manufactured in the chapter headings, portrayed with the objective film eye. I feared this meant that audiences might miss the "warning label" Herbert attached to Paul. Perhaps. But when Paul says to Jessica, "We are Harkonnens; time to act like we are," he identifies himself with the worst tyrant the setting remembers. Perhaps audiences will be prepared for _that_ conversation in Messiah, if it happens, or Villeneuve will convey the spirit WW2 veteran Herbert wrote it with. The Fremen culture is richer when we can see that there are as many consistencies as there are variations -- whether by region, age, etc. They are more like a real group of people. Paul and Jessica have to be more adept to control them. Minority Fremen resistance to the prophecy makes their perpetuation of it throughout the universe a greater tragedy. This new Chani seems to be the avatar, the individual who represents the group tendency. I think that has promise. With every change from Villeneuve I felt, "Yeah, that could work." I was actually wowed by these two in the cinema. Thanks for your thoughts, R. Ali bro.
Yeah fair points you made. That's what I meant when I said it's a weird film to review and two opposing views both being right. For example there are some people who didn't like the Jessica change, calling her a lunatic towards the end of the film. I think as a film itself, all the changes make it work and are plausible.
Absolutely, that polarised feeling is exactly what I thought, it's a frustratingly great film. A great film when compared to most other blockbusters of our era, but a frustrating adaptation of the book, and had it been a bit closer to the book and about 30- 45 minutes longer it would be a true masterpiece
At the end of the day, those choices and changes were intentional and if there are any new polarising aspects that enter into the Dune fandom, it is because of those choices.
What I hope is that the film will encourage viewers to read the books, I've seen the film 5 times now and each time I see it my main feeling coming out of the cinema is a renewed sense of admiration for Frank Herbert.@@secretsofdune
I have not seen it yet, waiting to get the family together like last time. I just wanted to say, I have looked at the numbers and parts 1& 2 have basically pulled in a billion dollars between them!!!!!!!!!! All those people, those movie/media critics, studio executives over decades who said Dune was too convoluted to be done well and too "high brow" for a wide audience to ever be interested in and crapped on the efforts of any who attempted it prior. I am so glad they have been proven wrong. Thank you to all involved in the 80's Dune movie, all involved in the SyFy channels Dune series, you kept the flame alive across the generations long enough for us to be where we now are regarding Dune.
I actually think this is a very good movie, but it leaves you wanting and by that I mean the scenes in the beginning are cut too fast and go to different subjects and just leave you wanting even though it is a good movie
Although the film was largely enjoyable and a successful production, it refused to step into the batter’s box to hit some easy fastballs. Not servicing Thufir, not delving into the Guild’s enormous influence in political affairs rivaling other Galactic power centers, making Chani a secular super soldier antagonist rather than Paul’s loyal romantic companion, not connecting Liet as Chani’s mother, not seeing Paul in combat in the final battle (laughably giving us Chani in combat instead), Stilgar not being a serious person, and on and on. However, the film was still something to experience, even if they twisted some of Frank Herbert’s original intentions. Ultimately, the film is bittersweet for me. One of easily serviced missed opportunities. Paul’s performance was truly outstanding.
Same here! In fact I mentioned it in my very first Dune 2 trailer breakdown because that was the first thing I thought of: ua-cam.com/video/e7PgiEqxyIg/v-deo.html
Hey, i dont really have much to add but I wish you a blessed month of Ramadan and a blessed Eid in the coming weeks. Thank you for providing such fantastic insight into the Dune universe all these years while also being fair in your assesement of all the adaptations.
Likewise! That’s very kind of you to say. I really just want to be fair and honest in these reviews and analysis so I’m glad that you noticed that. Thanks for watching!
Hi Secrets of Dune, I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on part 2! What's your thoughts on Denis saying that Frank Herbert wrote Dune Messiah as a response to people thinking Paul was the good guy? The evidence suggests that Frank wrote and planned the first 3 books of the series before Dune was ever released.
I will be covering that in a video. It has been something I've kept a close eye on for a long time. You're absolutely right in that there was always a plan. I don't like what I've heard in all honesty.
Dude, the black teeth was mentioned in the book! Are you serious? I can't remember if he pulled that from other books, but Denis DEFINITELY snuck a LOT of things from the lore that wasn't actually IN the first Dune novel. He even included SOME things that were written by Brian Herbert & Kevin J. Anderson...so he's giving love in the form of visual & audio Easter eggs all over the place for the Dune universe...as a WHOLE!
I really enjoyed Jessica's character in the film! When she described clear prescience as "the beauty and the horror" - it reminded me of the overbearing repetition in the novel of the "terrible purpose". A burden that Paul carries as the Kwisatz Haderach. I think the weakest part of the film was the animated dream sequences. It felt like an odd departure from the dreams in the first film.
15:00 some have argued that this particular plot point could have been a ruse by Jessica to push on another facet of the prophecy that she probably knew about : that sihaya (desert spring's tears) would save the Lisan al-Gaib. She even uses the voice on Chani, to force her to do it, because Chani resists (Chani represents opposition to everything related to the prophecy in DV's adaptation). When Stilgar says it out aloud, she could have feigned surprise (her expression is hard to read there, but she doesn't sound surprised). And, just after she does give him another drop of the water of life, you can hear "the voice" tell him to rise, as if to give him the queue. This would also explain why Jessica later says "Sorry about Chani", recognizing that she used her for their plan. Knowing how much DV loves to go into details, this sounds like quite probable.
That means in the movie, Jessica can control when a person cries and make them cry on cue just by saying "do it." I personally wasn't convinced by that notion. If Chani was so clued up about "this prophecy is how they enslave us," I'm surprised she didn't know about the voice among the Fremen. That was also missing from the book. One of the first warnings Stilgar gives Jessica, is that if she uses the voice, that he cannot protect her or the boy anymore.
I watched dune part 2 in cinema 4 times and 2 times in streaming and I adore it even more, I have read the first two books and now I'm reading Children of Dune, waiting to read all the Cicle of Dune. I loved Dune part One so much, watched it 6 or 7 times, these two movies are Masterpice and I think Frank Herbert would be very proud of Denis Villeneuve...Can't wait for Dune Messiah, even if will be an hard job...
As someone who has a sweet spot for the SciFi-Channel Adaptation of Dune, i really have my problems with Villeneuves Dune. While i can praise the craftmenship and acknowledge, that it is a great movie, i feel like it fell short of some things i loved about the Mini Series. I didn´t read the books (shame on me, i know) so i cannot comment on how accurate the series is, but the nature of being a series (albeit a short one) it felt that it had much more time to "breath", to develop the characters and give moments of rest or quiet to really live in that world. The Movie didn´t necessarily felt rushed, but it really felt like we´re seeing beat after beat, following a straight path, which felt really constructed sometimes. The music, while being great, no doubt about that, was like a metronome to the movie, setting the pace for the movie, never leaving room to breath. I have the same problems about Stilgar as you, who i saw as someone who can be looked up to, to almost being a comedic satire to religion purely on his own, leaving only a shell of a man he was in the previous movie. I am currently watching Shogun on Hulu/Disney+ and i can´t help it but think that Dune should have been adapted as a series again. I coudn´t find a video you talking about the Dune SciFi-Channel Show adapted in the 2000s to see whats your take on that adaptation but i am always curious what book readers think about that, especially in comparison with the current slate of Dune movies we have so far, since i think the Mini Series is underrated and often even laughed at. Yes, it sometimes is kind of goofy and it does have that particular late 90s early 2000s TV - SciFi feel to it, but i think it is very much enjoyable and i think its pretty close to the Book, since comparing it to Villeneuves Dune part one, they have a lot of the same beats and quotes, so much so that i remember watching Villeneuves movie back in 2021 and not being surprised by the story at all, sinc e i remembered a lot from the show.
I will be talking about the mini series in the future I think (which I loved). It's what lead me to the books and as you say, it gave Dune time to breathe which I think is vital.
Youre overdoing the criticism of stilgars comedic moments imo. Its like 2 or 3 (pretty funny imo) moments only in the first half of the movie that don't take away from the tradegy of what he becomes in the second half of the movie in my opinion. I also found him very charismatic in both movies. Also calling Chanis friend "alia baiting" 😂😭 come on man... Also Jessica used the voice to force chani to use her tears, i have no idea how you missed that.
There were some moments that weren't supposed to be funny that people laughed at like the quick "Lisan al Gaib" moment which is now becoming a meme. That's sort of what I meant. Trust me, hundreds of comments about the poster "who's the girl?" "Is that Alia?" "Is that Jessica's daughter?" "Alia!!" when I shared the posters on my socials. It felt like Alia-bating, maybe it wasn't intentional but that's how people took her on the poster to be. I didn't miss the jessica using the voice part, I might have mixed up the order it happened though. I thought she said spoke about the legend with conviction before Jessica used the voice (still seen the movie once).
I agree with everything adressed in this video. I was thinking about these things too👍 And about Paul and Jessica's Harkonnen past. Maybe it was said because 1) Paul called him grandfather and perhaps was to hint that by killing the Baron and Feyd, he took Harkonnen's power and lineage away (idk) And 2) maybe to open the door for audiences to later understand about Alia's future plots in the coming movie(s). 🤔
Well glad I’m not the only one. Yes that could be the reason why the Harkonnen lineage was mentioned. I hope it’s not going to be a case of “oh he has Harkonnen lineage that’s why he’s evil” as a justification for what Paul does later on, because that would be weird.
@@secretsofdune ah, didn't think of it that way. Makes much more sense in regards of the adaptation, that it could confuse the audiences that have not read the books. I agree, it had to be more careful when letting that information go around. Because the message of the book can be misinterpreted by taking away Paul's own madness and being attributed to his Harkonnen lineage. Yes, yes, now I see your concern regarding that.
"we finally have a complete screen adaptation of Frank Herbert's first Dune book" 😂😂😂😂😂 seriously, what movies did you see, man?! We have barely fifty percent of the books in the the film, and I mean barely. The copium with this film is off the charts. Just cause its not overtly woke and actually entertaining, doesn't mean its a masterpiece. Especially when its main function - the proper and respectful adaptation of a novel - was left unachieved!
What have a complete adaptation according to the filmmakers. It doesn’t mean that I think it’s a complete book adaptation with all the book elements in it, as I mention in the review, no guild navigators etc.
I honestly really hated how lady Fenring gave Feyd Rautha the gom jabbar test. That made absolutely no sense. The test is for those trained in the Bene Gesserit way, to see if they can control their impulses and be trusted with their powers. Feyd was not trained as a Bene Gesserit, his value was his bloodline… were they really going to kill him if he failed the test? Just stupid.
@@johnmckiernan2176 the issue isn’t how he could survive the test, the issue is why would they give it to him at all. Feyd was not a candidate for kwisatz Haderach, his child would have been. So again it makes absolutely no sense.
@@gnomechomsky2524 I haven't read the book in the while, but does it say the only males who can pass the test - and the only males given it - are potential Kwisatz Haderachs? I honestly cannot recall. Paul passed the test, but Gauis Mohiam was still skeptical about his prospects. I think you might be over-reading what Lady Fenring says about securing the bloodline. I was under the impression that maintain many bloodlines for potential Messiahs, that they give many prospective males the gom jabbar test, that some pass and some fail, and that even those prospects who pass the test, and die later, are cultivated for their bloodlines. Basically, redundancy over the generations; backups and alternatives.
I do regret Chani does not have a more solid backstory, than her simply being against religious beliefs, blind loyalty, politics and the idea of an 'outsider' saving her people. I felt Zendaya wasn't given enough layers to play with, nor did the relationship between Paul and Chani have anything solid to kick-start it with. - The film didn't acknowledge that Dr Liet-Kynes ‘the Judge of the Change’ was in fact Chani's mother. Depriving Chani of an extra layer of grief and connection to Paul (also grieving a parent), who only survived thanks to her mother. That way they had more to bond over than just Fremen culture and technology. Kynes' legacy both within her family and within the larger Fremen community remains the dream of terraforming Arrakis to make it hospitable. Remember the ecological station from Part One? This was the work of Chani's family over generations. - Also her mother was a well-known and respected figure among the Fremen, making Chani fully aware of the politics around the dream. Dr Kynes was working for the emperor, politically manipulating as best she could to win gains for the Fremen dream. This is not foreign to Chani. She's not green to the political machinations of the empire. She is the daughter of someone playing the game! So Chani leaving at the end of Part Two felt off.
I dunno; apart from the Liet Kynes thing, Chani is a much more developed and interesting character compared to in the book, where she comes across as very bland.
Yeah, great, truly...but I really missed baby Alia, both as a character and for her contribution to the story. And if there is one shot that should have been carried over from 1984--in some form--it was Alia on the battlefield, her robes flowing in the wind, crysknife in hand, being the very embodiment of Fremen victory.
Sadly I am one of the few that did not like the movie. I was so hyped for it when I saw part 1. It was my most anticipated thing ever. I even read the book because the wait was too long. And after seeing it, I just couldn't help it. I did not have a good time. I think Denis went too heavy handed with the message, misunderstood some of it, stripped the story down to it's bare bones, made most of the characters blander, and I am not a fan of his minimalist, brutalist style. I know I know, blasphemy of the highest order. But that's just how I feel. So much good stuff got cut, and yet the movie has like 15 minutes worth of action scenes, that were invented for the movie. Dune was never about the fighting and the action. I would have gladly skipped out on most action scenes, for more character moments. But I guess that's only me. And I also know that both movies have like 2 hours of extra character scenes, that were cut, and that Denis will never release what he cut. Anyway, I am waiting for another adaptation to get the story right. I have written multiple pages worth of essays about what I didn't like about Dune Part 2. Literally everyone has had their chance to praise the movie. Right now I am like Chani at the end of this movie, while everyone else is like Stilgar.
Really interesting analogy at the end of your comment haha. I hear what you are saying. I am definitely seeing a kind of fanaticism for the film. I'm extremely happy for those that love this movie and think its a masterpiece and even a perfect film, I couldn't be more happier for them. For those who wish to express their feelings which oppose that view though, they shouldn't have be talked down to, or dismissed as foolish etc.
@@secretsofdune Thankfully the larger Dune fandom has been really respectful, and open to discussion (It's a lot harder to explain to someone who hasn't read Dune, why I didn't care for it.). I try my best to make good arguments when discussing what I didn't like about it. And I have been on the other end of this discussion too, so I know how they feel. I have defended Denis Blade Runner 2049, when very big enthusiasts of the original Blade Runner, have gone after it. I understand some of their points, but I also got what Denis was trying to do with his sequel. But here I am at the other end of the liked-disliked spectrum.
Nice work! A worthy addition to the Dune fandom. I like to think of these movies as being BASED on the books rather than being an adaptation. The film therefore fits well within Villeneuve's oeuvre and is beautiful to watch. Although I have enjoyed Timothée's performances in other works, including Dune One, he somehow never quite rises to the level of a messianic figure--I remain unconvinced. Austin Butler's performance was for me one of the most compelling. Although, his fighting left something to be desired. He never quite sold it--it always looked like acting. Timothée was more convincing in this respect. Finally, the love story elements between Paul and Chani feel like too much of a sentimental Hollywood comprise for my taste. In this adaptation, the significance of their relationship feels out of proportion to that of the wider saga. Peace ✌
Maybe a wild take, but my read on Feyd and his harpies' black teeth was because they were cannibals. Feyd mentions feeding the harpies twice so I assumed he at some point partakes as well. No other Harkonnens had black teeth that I noticed, only those stated to be cannibals. Perhaps something about eating Harkonnen makes your teeth black...
No I think that's a very valid point and quite possible! In fact I do think that's probably what they were trying to say, I just wish that it had been explained better. I like your added idea at the end which suggests Harkonnen flesh does that to the teeth.
It does raise some other questions though, why would Feyd eat the same low quality meat as his harpies. Maybe some things are just not meant to be overthought haha @@zenster1097
I received so many comments on UA-cam, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter/X asking about her. "Alia?" "Who is the little girl in the poster?" I had a lot of explaining to do, and it bothered me in the end.
No mention of the Orange Catholic Bible yet? Or the Butlerian Jihad? Or have I missed it? I do prefer the bald heads of the Harkonnens to the red hair!
Nope, no mention of those either. I thought they would mention Zensunni early to introduce Hayt from Dune Messiah later on, but it seems they won't be ascribing that label to Hayt for that film adaptation.
@@secretsofdune yeah, true. I also think the main omission is the whole point about the spice and why it’s so invaluable. So far it just seems like tea would have been treated in the days of the East India Co. An expensive luxury, rather than the most important thing in the universe required for (folding) space travel.
The Lynch film had a distinctive and captivating strangeness that I've always appreciated, particularly in its portrayal of the transformation into a super being. However, I found Villenuves lacking in providing a thorough explanation for the significance of the spice and the motivations behind the conflicts it generates. Additionally, the absence of the navigators' interaction with Paul at the end was disappointing. Despite enjoying the spectacle, I feel the narrative fell short. Adapting Dune into a movie is undoubtedly a monumental challenge, and while this recent adaptation succeeded in many ways, it still necessitates reading the novel to fully appreciate its complexity, unlike the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Maybe the third instalment will alter my oinion, but i just feel that it really just wasnt wierd enough.
Dune actually needed 3 movies, we can be glad we have what we have but if they could have seen the future back in the planning stages of part 1, there would be 3 movies. The time gap was a mistake in my view, I believe it was done because they couldn't really figure out how to do Alia and they weren't willing to go all in. In the 1984 lynch movie there is scene near the end with Alia and her knife on the burning battlefield, the old movie did do some things this movie couldn't.
Jessica literally used the voice on Chani to force her to donate her tears. It couldn’t have been louder in the cinema when she demands “do it” like emperor palpatine
Yeah. I've still only seen the film once, so I may have gotten things slightly muddled, but the core of what I wasn't too pleased with in that scene, was the use of Sihaya itself.
I thought the same thing, haha.
@@secretsofdune I’d really recommend seeing it again. I hadn’t made my mind up on the first viewing (BFI 70mm), having been over analysing scenes and book changes, and as a result didn’t really get to fully enjoy / appreciate the experience, but knew I was watching a fantastic movie. It was the second time (IMAX Laser at Odeon) when I couldn’t help but smile knowing I was watching such an incredible, immense adaptation of my favourite book series and it firmly cemented itself as one of the best theatrical experiences I’ve ever had. Picked up on a lot more too, such as Chani’s hinted death being a catalyst of Paul’s actions. I LOVE the choice to have Paul’s visions of the holy war be implicitly told rather than explicitly (which we receive in the book) through the palpable weight he carries as a result of opening his mind post drinking the Water of Life
Yeah I think I might have mixed up in my head when she mentions the Sihaya legend and what she did during the scene, probably because I was in my own head while watching it and probably being over analytical haha.
@@secretsofdune I think this is the case for everyone who cares a lot about the source material so I completely understand. I made sure to book two viewings on a Monday and Tuesday as I was very aware that I probably would be too caught up in changes and nitpicking choices the first time around because I had such a strong image of the story in my head (and had anticipated the film for years - which if it didn’t deliver would be another gut punch like GoT was those years ago). So on first viewing I was slightly anxious and was deciding at every moment whether it was as good or better than expected / if I liked the vision. Second viewing where I knew what was coming and had time to digest the first viewing, I was over the moon and in disbelief really at what Denis has managed to achieve.
What i really love is a scene when (again and again) Denis use Paul's hand when describes that he see all possible future and flip it to explain that he see a narrow way! Dont know why but every scenes in his film use his hand or foot to deliver his visual language is the reason i love his films. It's a signature that made his film feel special to me.
The hand gestures were a brilliant way to imply the visions and futures without showing it. I liked that.
he sees a Golden Path if you will ;)
I absolutely agree!! They could have easily shown some of his visions visually but concentrating on his hand and his performance was the right move
Not sure if you also noticed that just before the atomics are launched, Stilgar holds his hand up in a practically identical way that Paul does when he says "a narrow way through." I felt like it was a nice, subtle callback to path Paul saw and how it included Stilgar right from the get-go.
The continued focus on Paul’s sensory experience through his hand in Part Two made me recall the shot on the beaches of Caladan, where Paul submerges it in water for the final time. Also evokes the Gom Jabbar test where Paul also saw his hand burnt and charred.
Dune is a dense and complex novel, very difficult to adapt on screen. So I think they did a good job at capturing the main themes and essence of the story, while still making it accessible and entertaining for those who have not read the book. Yes! Villeneuve's Dune is a major achievement in filmmaking that is sure to be remembered for years to come.
I loved Zendaya as Chani is the best part of the movie. I cannot wait to see more of her in part 3.
Lies. Lynch and 2000 adaptation were way better and more in line with the books. Villeneuve's version is just trash.
The rain at the end?
@@user-ADystop That's funny cause I don't remember reading about those weirding modules or Paul's victory causing rain to fall on Arrakis. I still enjoy its camp and cheese thou. The syfy miniseries is a safe, by the books, adaptation of Dune. Still enjoy it but the costumes, sets and some of its cast just breaks the immersion for me.
Dune warns against the dangers of religious fanaticism and extremism. Neither of the previous adaptations managed to get this point across, whereas Villeneuve's Dune did, flawlessly.
@@janainap.pereira950 I was pleasantly surprised by Zendaya's performance. Really looking forward to seeing her in part 3.
Pretty sure Jessica was the sole reverend mother. The same way in the book how one reverend mother passes the baton to another. All the others surrounding after that seemed to me to simply be constituents or devout followers.
According to Dune Part Two concept artist Keith Christensen, the art at 3:55 was described as "Designs for the Reverend Mothers" and the other design seems to be on another woman in the actual shot at 3:50. Either way I still think it has generated some confusion and I think they put those designs in there to hint that there are more Reverend mothers controlling other Sietches in different locations. Stilgar did say "our reverend mother" is dying, but theirs is only "one tribe" according to this portrayal in Dune Part Two.
@@secretsofdune
This may be a consequence of Denis and writers expanding on Fremen in this adaptation to better suit the next books. The new interpretation of secular vs religious fremen is great for a Messiah film, but I think they made many Reverend Mothers to account for this expansion. But at the same time this change isnt entirely clear, we see Jessica being the only one to sit during Paul's duel. We also never see these other Reverend Mothers the way we see Jessica, she's given a sense of royalty and the others never really seem equal to her in that way.
Right to your points about Jessica @@hypocriticalsatire3966 - she is kind of singled out. It's not a drastic change. I just thought that her importance as the sole reverend mother of Arrakis might be used later on in Messiah to further show her importance. The ambiguity of the other women if they are reverend mothers isn't a major issue all things considered though.
Also in Irulan's journal entry (I believe the second on she does in the movie) she notes about finding out about Muad'dib's rise among the southern Fremen, via Bene Gesserit "agents" that are embedded in the tribes. In that statement I don't think Irulan explicitly states these agents are full Revered Mothers, but its stands to reason that if Sietch Tabr has their own, then other tribes can have them as well.
That's true well spotted, they themselves could be the agents or perhaps those who serve those "reverend mothers" @@superchromatical
Just been re-reading the book and noticing how many small visual moments and lines of dialogue Denis managed to incorporate into the movie; for instance the eerie vision of the Fremen worshipping the enshrined skull of Duke Leto recovered from Arakeen, which is a quick reference in the book but appears in the film. When Denis says the book was their Bible on set, I believe him. Yes there were some narrative changes made to ensure the material translated to a wholly impactful cinematic experience but the urge to respect and honour the book is clear to see.
Best comment 👍
It’s what made me fall in love with his first part adaptation. Just an absolute master class.
I just got the book can’t wait to read. I haven’t been this excited to see a movie in theaters since maybe the dark night rises.
When I saw the first film, I liked it a lot, but was upset by how much was not explained or mentioned (mentats, ancestral memory, AI ban etc.)
BUT THEN I considered to fully adapt the book and all the subplots you would need a 10-12 episode season ala Game of Thrones.
So if you consider they took so much material and crammed it into a little over five hours and it still works, it's actually a triumph.
Second viewing makes it so much better. Once you know and understand the choices they made, wether we agree with it or not, and you accept to watch the movie for what it is, it’s an amazing experience. It was a 8/10 after my first viewing and a 10/10 after my second one. Great cinematic achievement that deviates a bit from the source material.
Yeah I definitely think you're right. I also just keep getting the feeling that I want to bring Dune Part Two home, I want to own it, I want to watch it several more times.
You are absolutely right. I saw the movie 3 times already. The third time was the best cinema experience ever. I love every second of it. And I understand all changes. If we want more movies like Dune they must be accessible not only for hardcore fans but for regular mobie goers. Denisecdid fantastic job. For me it's masterpiece
Yes, yes, watch it a second time! You spot details you missed on first viewing.
I thought Jessica used the voice on Chani to compell her to do that
To do what exactly?
Was just going to say this
To put her tears in the water of life
yes she did, i recall her using the voice in this instance
Even if that’s the case, I still think it’s a strange use of the term Sihaya. That is the term that Paul should have given Chani in their relationship, it was never a strange Fremen belief.
Jessica used the voice on her. Thats the only reason she took the water of life and placed it on his lips. The tear was more a directors choice 🎬
I think Dune Part One is a better adaptation, but Part Two is the better movie. As for the Desert Spring tears scene, she absolutely is not a believer in the prophecy (as she literally says in the scene), but Jessica forced Chani to go to the sietch in order to fulfill that part of the prophecy. I still don't like that Chani doesn't like the name. I always interpreted it as a lover's name from Paul
It is a love name 100% but it seems to have become yet another fremen myth lie created by the bene gesserit which I’m not a fan of in that case. This also has future implications too.
I've seen the movie 4 times. Each time I notice some new details that make me appreciate the movie even more. There are some scenes I get filled with emotions to the point of almost shed a tear... and I'm not really an emotional person. I adore this film.
Go see the movie again, and leave the book reader at home. I left confused first time, went next day to see it again and end up leaving in awe this time and bought another ticket for few hours later.
That's exactly what I said in my spoiler-free review, "leave your book lore loving wishes at the door" or something like that, haha.
@@secretsofdune since you read the dune books, would you say that a huge chunk or portion of visible Islamic inspiration or influence was left out of the movie? including some Hindu/Buddhist mixes Aswell?
like for example, some fremen viewed the worm as a big enemy and sometimes referred to it as " shaytain".
@@AaronOmar-co8bn,
There are mixes of many schools of spiritual beliefs in the 6 books.
15:00 she didn't do it willingly, she was compelled by Lady Jessica
No. She did it willingly. Chani is actually the person who figures out how to wake Paul up. Huge L from V.
@@Kwisatz-ChaderachBalam Industries sponsored field trip.
@@VictorIV0310 lol. That games sick. And I'm 100% right.
@@Kwisatz-Chaderach no she didn’t, she was arguing with Jessica saying along the lines “you do it, you caused this” that’s when Jessica used the voice on her
@@gagalover2k10 in the cringe ass not cannon film version. Sure.
*** THE PARALLEL BETWEEN JAMIS' BATTLE SCENE, AND THE BIRTH OF THE LISAN AL-GAIB*** This is very similar to the story of Moses in the book of Exodus in the Jewish Scriptures in the Bible.
I) Moses sees an Egyptian flogging and beating up a Hebrew slave. He was born and brought up in Egypt and safeguarded by Pharaoh's daughter, in the palace - he is an prince for all means and purposes. However, he is a Hebrew slave, not an Egyptian!
---> The burial of the Egyptian soldier / slave master on the sand is a metaphor. The person who is actually being buried on the sand of Egypt is the Egyptian Moses (with his identity complexities and difficulties growing up in the palace of his oppressors) so that Moses the Liberator can be born.
The same applies to Paul and Jamis. Jamis dies, but who is actually, de facto, passing away is Paul, ***the Duke's son from Caladan - half Atreides, half Harkonnen***, so that Paul Muadib Atreides, the Lisan Al-Gaib is born. The conduit vessel must be destroyed so that the substance within is completely revealed. The Lisan Al Gaib.
I believe the cielagos were actually in the film. When the Harkonnen raid Sietch Tabr they are using flamethrowers upwards and there are burning creatures falling onto the ground. Kind of reminded me of the scene in Fifth Element of the maintenance people using flamethrowers before the ship takes off.
From what I’ve seen, as far as I know those were birds. Maybe they were changed to be message carriers, but I thought they were simply part of the “cave of birds.”
Hopefully we get extended versions of all three films in the future.
That's the dream.
Never gonna please everyone, even when we get a great film to enjoy..
That's true I suppose.
11:01 By this scene, I couldn't help but laugh and think of "Life Of Brian":
> "I AM NOT THE MESSIAH!"
< "Only the true Messiah denies his divinity!"
> "ALRIGHT I AM THE MESSIAH!"
< "HE IS!! HE IS THE MESSIAH!!"
I think they definitely played with it
Yeah a lot of people made that connection.
I didn't care for the abbreviated timeline. I really wanted more time in the desert. Three movies for one book might be overkill in some instances (cough, cough The Hobbit) but I could absolutely sit through a three part rendition of Dune.
Dune 2 was amazing but should’ve been 4 hours long
@@bhoops13 ITA. I could've watched 6 hours of that type of movie making and had more back story and see the navigators. I hope there are series that go into the back story of Dune. And may I say I am not gay but I would consider it with choices like Chani and Irulan. Paul is so damn lucky. The casting was fantastic. I liked in this version Chani didn't accept his decision to wed Irulan and she was angry and took off. I know in the book he took the guy he killed wife on. That is Fremen culture but Irulan was stepping outside of Fremen culture and Chani thought Paul had completely accepted Fremen culture. Anyway I really loved this adaptation and I don't think it could've been better unless there was more.
I think you're correct. I loved these movies for what they are, yet i do think the potential is still out there for a superior adaptation of just the first book alone. One that includes more of the political tension of the galaxy, between the Great Houses, House Corrino, CHOAM and the Guild, and that further explores the esoteric ecological connection of the Worms to the Spice and the heartbeat of galactic civilization, and how Paul comes to see beyond all the petty machinations and explicitly threatens to destroy galactic civilization at the climax of the story. Based on how these two Denis movies ran 5+ hours.. I'd say you probably need a 10 hour series for Book 1, and realistically it would have to be an animation to have a budget that a studio would actually consider funding
Thank you James. I completely agree with your suggestions too. I think this could be an incredible anime series for example which would naturally allow for the internal monologues to be portrayed on screen.
I don't think it's suggested in the book she's the only Reverand Mother on Dune, it's suggested she is the Reverand Mother of Sietch Tabr . They are moving to the south and it's not good to do so without "their" Reverand Mother to me that always meant the other Siethches had their own Reverand Mother.
I agree that it is not very clear in the book and so it is okay to play around with that, but I would have preferred if the film made a definitive decision that she was the sole reverend mother to unite all Fremen tribes, and the reason I say this is so that her status is elevated even more in Dune Messiah. But that was only a nit-pick I have to say and it's not something drastic. At the end of the day she is still "The Mother of Lisab al-Gaib" that is status enough.
@@secretsofdune in movies visual medium placement is everything notice Jessicas placement with the other Reverand Mothers she's out front always. That is depicting status, she's the one they fallow. I understand where you are coming from thou. Movie is not perfect we all would make different choices because different things from the books spoke to us. All in all, a great movie.
Yes you're right, that's true @@JagsNoles28
I really think that Austin Butler deserves an Oscar for his portrayal of Feyd Rautha. For me, the best scene was when Feyd started laughing hysterically as Lanville was trying to shove a knife into his face. Quite a disturbing scene, but Austin Butler portrayed Feyd's insanity with perfection.
I don't.
i didnt mind the changes that much. I can see what Denis was going for.
Chani for example is very much set up to be the one to kill paul. The visions of her in her wedding dress im guessing stabbing him is going to be the end of messiah/Part 3. I dont mind we didnt get baby alia. Thufir with his very little screen time in Part 1 is all but forgotten about by part 2. Same for Yueh and even Duncan. That sucks but i can understand why. You have to focus on the big beats.
I dont think we will get Navigators or anything else too weird for Part 3. Maybe theyll start easing it in with the TV series? People arent ready and never will be ready for just how weird the books are despite what some think. G Prime was great but it only touches the weird it doesnt fully embrace it. With how these films are Grounded sort of they have to keep that consistent and from whative seen in interviews Denis himself doesnt really like the weird stuff and if he does he understand it cant really work on film for the mass public.
i do really hope they STOP after part 3. the last thing i want is Hollywood to take over and Milk Dune til people are bored of it and becomes the travesty that is modern day star wars.
that line of pauls about chani "she will come to understand. I have seen it" also doesnt mean she still wont kill him in the end. As long as he stays who he is, she will love him. In the end he changes and becomes a harkonnen(his words) so that love is gone and she knows what she has to do. Im fine with that for this version but i do wish they kept it a bit more faithful and have her still be there in the end and with time, understand he has to die and thats what breaks her heart.
If the significant thing is these movies get people into the books, then they accomplished a great thing.
My favorite things are Paul's speech, the lighting, Feyd being both dark and honorable, Jesica being a power mom (whether Paul liked it or not), the lighting, and the music.
Things that fell flat were the lack of time jump, the last scene, no Mentats, no Harah (my favorite minor character), and only a glimpse of the inside of a sietch.
Watching the two films makes you want to delve into the Dune universe, all the pre history stuff is fascinating.
Always great commentary. I appreciate your perspective on each of the topics you covered. I will mention a couple of scenes that were somewhat overlooked in reviews but very powerful. The first is the way Jessica, as the new Reverend Mother with lots of new powers, recoils (as the light dims) in the face of her son's ascension as the Kwisatz Haderach. It's only a moment in the movie, but powerful. The second is the transformation of Jessica's face after she drinks the water of life. How her face became swollen and distorted. It was amazing acting and cinematography. I've seen the movie four times now and with each successive viewing I noticed elements of the movie I didn't see or appreciate in earlier viewings. It's just an amazing work. Period. Thank you again. I await your next analysis!
Thank you. I appreciate it. I’m loving how people are getting more out of the movie upon more viewings. In fact I’m going to delay my part one and two combined review until I’ve seen the film several more times to truly give justice to the review.
@@secretsofdune I really look forward to it! BTW, I'm sure you are aware that you have a very hypnotic voice. I've heard that there are people whose voice elicits ASMR (autonomous sensory meridian response) in an audience. I don't know much about it, but I think your voice fits that bill. Take care
***ENTRANCE TO THE THRONE'S ROOM**** Brother, thank you for this! When you refer to the entrance of Paul in the throne's room, the imagery is ASTOUNDING.
1)BLACK (HARKONEN): The Baron dies as he tries to ascend to the throne, the Baron is crawling on the floor, but the silky BLACK robe still underpins the brutal regality and sensuality of the character. Drunk in his pursuit of power. Died on the steps of the throne. Unable to move, but still attempting to crawl to the throne.
2) SILVER (EMPEROR): The Sandaukar are lined up, the Emperor and Princess Irulan lined up (What a dress Florence Pugh was wearing there and then!) - the tones of SILVER in the half-lit room were stunning. A nod to warfare, chivalry, and royalty in war times.
3) FREMEN (ORANGE DUST) : Then the Anti-Christ figure of Paul Usul Muadib Atreides walking through the dusty orangey room - a nod to spice melange in the air, a nod to the orange of Arrakis, but also the dirt of battle, dust and blood. An Anti-thesis to the SILVER theme (see above!). The lack of clarity (i.e. the dust) points to the times of uncertainty, the lack of vision though is not a deterrent to the firm steps of Paul who straddles through the room, and commands it, even if he is NOT different in the slightest from any of his fighters / Fedaykin.
He is another Fremen in the Room. A prophet, a duke, an emperor in the making, but still no different from any of his followers.
Yeah it's full of great symbolism.
Chani wasn't 100% willingly doing the Water of Life thing on Paul in the film. She probably knew what needed to be done, but Jessica explicitly used the voice on her and made her do it. Now whether Jessica's liberal use of the Voice on people in this movie is OK or not is up to how you would characterize Jessica in the script. She seems to be a little less passive than she is in the book. So no, Chani doesn't really act out-of-character.
Okay but the way interpreted it after one viewing (and I could be wrong) was that Chani was acting on an inherent belief in the Sihaya legend and was just compelled to act on it through Jessica’s use of the voice. When there are many changes to the way things work and are done in the movie compared to the book, it can form confusions like these. Is the voice more powerful on the movie than on the book? Does it also cause people to believe in pre existing legends when they normally wouldn’t. I don’t know.
@@secretsofdune I think you are delving so much into the book you have started to lose sight of basic logic
I have a grasp of basic logic, I’m just trying to navigate what I think about every element I’ve seen in the film based on first impressions. I may understand better on a second viewing.
14:51 It was said that Chani sorta backtracked on her non belief of the prophecy. This seems to be incorrect, because Chani didn't want to do this action, but Lady Jessica used THE VOICE to make her do it. There was no FREE WILL in that action
best sci-fi movie of all times... still not a tenth of a % of the reading experience which tells you just how immensely powerful the reading experience can get.
14:40 Didn't Jessica use the voice on Chani and force her to partake in the ritual?
She did, but the voice only compelled her to participate, not to believe in the pre existing fremen legend surely. She just said do it. Unless the voice has more power than in the book… if that’s the case it’s an even worse implication because it means they are saying the term sihaya which should be a loving term between Paul and Chani was a bene gesserit missionaria protectiva myth. In that case I’m not a fan of that change.
there are definitely some things I would have done differently in the movie but overall I think it's fantastic and about as close to perfect as we could realistically expect. I will say I strongly dislike Denis's policy of never releasing deleted scenes/a director's cut. I understand cutting material bc it is a rather long movie and a wider audience might be turned off by that, but pretty much every big Dune fan I've talked to would have sat through 5 hours of this happily.
Plus we already know these scenes
I rewatched Lawrence of Arabia before I watched Dune part 2 a 3rd time, since Denis credited LoA as one of his inspirations, and I noticed another impossible feat for Denis to pull off - to build up Paul as the Mahdi of the Fremen with sufficient time to make it believable. In Dune pt 2, I felt a little bit like Paul had it too easy in the movie - he fought a few fights victoriously, built up his legend, seeds of prophecy were planted, gave a speech and talked about some private details of the Fremen that he got from his genetic memories/visions, then he's the de facto Lisan Al-Gaib. Whereas in Lawrence of Arabia, Aurens had to go through quite an arduous journey to earn the Bedouin tribes' trust, that near the end, when Aurens convened a council of the different tribes together after taking over a city (I think Damascus?) from the Ottomans, it felt earned - although that scene itself was comical in the sense of how (perhaps an orientalist subtly racist portrayal) difficult the tribes were to manage.
Herbert not only spoke about the DANGERS of messianic leaders, but of religion as well, represented by the Bene Gesseret.
and Denis is basically focusing on both main themes from Herbert’s books.
and to say Stilgar being the comic relief is being disrespectful to what Javier and Denis is trying to do for the part.
Stilgar is the very representation of religious fanaticism that is beyond reason.
Did someone say Stilgar being the comic relief is being disrespectful? That Stilgar you mention is moreso in Children of Dune. Characters need time to develop.
Remember that Chani was commanded to help Paul by Jessica, who used the voice on her. So perhaps her apparent conviction was a measure of Jessica’s skill as a Bene Gesserit
One small detail that really bothered me is when the Emperor tells Paul that he killed Leto " because he was a weak man". That's the complete opposite of the book!
It's especially frustrating, because earlier, Mohiam gives Irulan an explanation that's much more in line with the book.
The Harkonnen lineage is important for Alia's arc. Serious foreshadowing!
It reminded me of David Leans Lawrence of Arabia in the way the filming was done
Direct influence on Denis for sure.
I mean, the film/book is Lawrence of Arrakis
i dont know another word to use besides "Masterpiece" to describe this film.
***THE REVEALING OF A HARKONEN LINEAGE*** I have interpreted that (i) scene when Paul is discussing with the Lady Jessica (now Reverend Mother Lady Jessica) and reveals his Harkonen lineage as (ii) IMMEDIATELY JUXTAPOSED to the scene of the Amtal and the battle between Paul Atreides and Jamis. Why?
Well here is my take on it: Paul Atreides must die so that the Kwisatz Ha-Derech is born. Paul Atreides is a Harkonen- Atreides human, with Bene Gesserit-Mentat capabilities. Metaphorically though, that archetype is just a vessel to hold the infinite possibilities of the Kwisatz Ha-Derech.
Before the Amtal scene, you will remember the voice: "when you take a life, you take your own - rise!". House Atreides fell in the battle of Arakeen, House Harkonen is on the way out, the Fremen are rising. How can Paul come to terms with being half-Harkonen? Well, he sublimates that by believing it is simply an organic, biological corpus-vessel to host the "mind who bridges space and time".
Another great video! As you said at the beginning, whether you like the changes or not, the love and care for the source material comes through more than most book to film adaptations. The change I loved the most was making Chani a nonbeliever that Paul is the Mahdi, but cares for him because of his clear compassion for the Fremen. I know people have strong opinions when deviating from the source, but I always thought when reading the book that Chani would have better served the story as a cautionary voice for her people, and not just another naïve follower. What I missed the most from the books was the roll of spice in the Dune world. Even a few extra minutes of run time would have been well worth the time spent showing the Spacing Guild, Navigators, and the actual importance of spice in the Dune universe. I've had to explain more than once why spice is so critical in this story. All in all, this movie feels more like Raiders of the Lost Ark to me than Star Wars. All parties involved are clearly having the time of their lives making this film, and that shows in every frame. Just think how this could have gone...
I agree with you about making Chani a skeptic. That's also one of the things I enjoyed most about this adaptation. But I don't think that we needed to see the Guild in the final act like we saw them during the ceremony of the change in part one. I like to believe that they're in their Heighliners orbiting Arrakis watching things unfold. Hopefully we'll get to see the Guild Navigator Edric in Messiah. They did explain the importance of spice in part one, that's why I think that people need to watch both films and pay attention to get the full picture. “For the Fremen, spice is the sacred hallucinogen which preserves life and brings enormous health benefits. For the Imperium, spice is used by the navigators of the Spacing Guild to find safe paths between the stars. Without spice, interstellar travel is impossible, making it by far the most valuable substance in the universe.”
@@brotherjohnnyxXxX I think what I missed most was just the creepy, other worldly vibe that the Spacing Guild and Navigators brought to the story. Denis has proven that he can pull off the weirder elements of the novel with real intensity, and without feeling campy. I would've loved to have seen how he would have depicted those elements (aside from the quick 'herald of the change' scene from Pt. 1) from the book. They did mention that spice use was required to navigate the universe, but that went over the heads of most people I know who saw the first film multiple times, but did not read the book.
Yes, the lady Jessica, who - in every other adaptation - is portrayed as a powerful BG but positive mother-figure, has a dark side. I do not doubt her love for Duke and Paul, but being Leto's concubine and breeding Atreides offspring is part of the secret BG-agenda. She never told the Duke about the Kwisatz Haderach. Her loyalty to her sisters is stronger than her loyalty to the Atreides. Thufir sensed that something is off about her and in the years after the attack he always thought, that she was the traitor.
How she (and Paul) uses her role and the prophecy to brainwash and manipulate many fremen into joining the revenge attack, is very sinister.
I applaud D. Villeneuve to show us the Bene Gesserit for what they really are: An evil and manipulative congregation of power-hungry witches! DV even goes as far making the BG ultimately responsible for wiping out the Atreides, which is a major deviation from the book. I hope in "Messiah" the role of the guild in the Atreides downfall becomes clearer.
Yes absolutely, that's why I loved Jessica in this movie.
@@secretsofdune,
The Padisha Emperor Shaddam the IV cooked up the scheme of the Atreides ruin with the Harkonnens, and had the blessings of the Spacing Guild (CHOAM).
The Spice Navigator (Engineer) foresaw the fact that Paul Muad'ib would sabotage the production of Spice on Arrakis, and demand his assassination.
What isn't mentioned is the fact that the Spice is addictive. Once an individual is addicted, there's no going back.
If an addict stops consuming it, they die.
Including the Spacing Guild Navigators (Engineers).
As a movie, it is truly superb. As an adaptation, I feel I could have done more. Both movies have more or less the same runtime as the SyFy miniseries, yet there are many many things missing from the book.
Too rushed and story missing to be a masterpiece for me. It's a great cinematic experience, but once the splendor wears off, the plot holes remain
Chani was controlled by Lady Jessica using the voice to use her tears in bringing Paul back from the brink.
My mom hasn't seen the movie yet, and she got so upset when i told her Count Fenring was cut, as he is her favourite character
Aww man , that's so sad. Yeah I think scenes were filmed for him. Hoping they surface in some way in the future. Did someone say fan edit?
We need the 29 minutes of deleted scenes
You’ll never see them. Villeneuve is adamant that final cut is final cut. So forget that hope right now.
To properly create a book-to-film version of Dune, you need at least 12 hours. I love the films, but there were many disappointments in how Denis transferred the story to film. The only aspect I actively disliked was the reinterpretation of Chani. It was completely at odds with the culture of the Fremen and destroyed the underlying romance of Paul and Chani and how she guides him--completely killing the end of the book in Jessica's observations of Irulan and her position with Paul compared to Jessica's and Chani's concubine roles as wives, not figureheads. In the end, Denis' Dune is a beautiful 5-hour **Art Film.**
S of D, I agree with you about Rebecca Ferguson’s A+ performance. I was continuously impressed by Javier Bardem’s expressions, as Stilgar, as he recognized all the signs of the Lisan al Gaib with such fervor.All the actors werei impressive! During moments of triumph-Paul’s first sand worm ride & the Fremen charging forth on the worms-the Dune theme music plays & my heart just expands with emotion❤ Another scene I like is Feyd Rautha walking thru the corridor & thinking Lady Margot is following him. She has manipulated his mind, which he soon realizes. It was skillfully played out, to me. I’ve watched Dune 2 many times!
My new favourite film of all time
Ratfinks who say it’s boring weren’t paying attention to any details or subtext or feelings whatsoever
I disagree about Chani's tear. I think it was a good addition. It isn't necessarily about the prophesy, but that she is deeply loved by Paul, and that is the only thing that would reach him, whether he changed or not. I disagree with much you expressed. Guild Navigators would likely involve too much CGI, which is not what Villeneuve wants. This is merely an INTERPRETATION and he exceeded expectations. This is NOT a sequel, nor does it feel like one. Why can't people see that this is one whole film?! It's maddening.
It's sad that the more that Denis expands on Dune in his own ways, the more that gets left on the cutting room floor. I think these movies, more than any other in his filmography, NEED extended editions. And I say that as someone who thoroughly enjoyed both parts.
But it's ironic that someone who understands the first book needed to be two parts because, as he puts it, it's a novel that takes its power in its details, that he's trimming down so many of those details without even considering the option of doing an extended cut.
He's his own double-edged sword. Knowing that the book needs room to breathe, but not giving his own adaptation the same opportunity because of his romantic notion of only ever doing one cut and that when he cuts something out of a movie "it's dead to him."
These are great movies already, and Denis is still a great filmmaker. But they're still not at their full potential, and if Denis isn't going to release the unabridged version of his vision, then I feel left waiting for an adaptation that'll take the source material to its absolute limit. Perhaps an adult animated adaptation that can find that balance between Villenueve's grounded historical inspired take with the psychedelic influences of Jodowosky, David Lynch, and the 60's and 70's.
No big studio is risking that budget on 2x 3hour+ movies adapted from a sci-fi book written 60 years ago.
@Unriven I don't see why WB themselves wouldn't be interested, especially considering Part Two is an even bigger financial success than Part One before even finishing its theatrical run. Big studios are always looking to squeeze out extra profit from any property they see as viable.
I don't think the question of doing extended versions really comes down to whether the studio would want to do it or not, considering Dune is expanding upon the Lord of the Rings in space comparison in the pop culture zeitgeist, a trilogy that very famously got extended versions of their films. And considering Villenueve shoots things mostly practically, the post-production costs to finish cut scenes would be at least somewhat less costly than most modern-day blockbuster budgeted movies.
I think it would really come down to Villenueve himself not having an interest in alternate cuts of his own movies that would be the main roadblock to getting extended editions rather than the studio itself.
Thank you for this video. I've watched so many different UA-camrs talk about the various themes imbued in the book. Very few have been as informative as this.
Chapeau a toi mon gars.
Thank you for the kind words and for watching. I wanted to cover as much as I could without making the video 3 hours long haha. I also wanted the video to reflect all aspects and opinions people have of the film, the positive and negative feedback because I believe it all matters and is part of the experience.
After watching Dune Part 2, one thing always resonating with my head and that is: Lisan al Gaib!
What an Epic movie it is! The scale of this film so so massive. It looked more expensive than Star wars, Avengers, Avatar and on par with The Lord of the Rings. Can't believe they made it with just budget of $190 million dollars. Wished it had more longer battle and fight sequences, but that's not a problem, whatever I see of it blew my mind away. That's what makes this movie unique and differentiated from other so called popcorn blockbuster generic movies. I'd love to re-watch Dune Part 2 but I can't coz I will have to travel 300km again back to the nearest city with so much hassles from my village. So I am gonna be watching it again when it comes to digital.
I'm gonna start using the phrase "Lisan al-Gaib!" when impressed by absolutely anything. Mo Salah scores a decent goal for Liverpool? Lisan Al-Gaib! Rob Brydon does a convincing Tom Jones impression? Lisan al-Gaib!. I get a tax rebate from the revenue? Lisan Al-Taxman! Let it be known I am not a man without faith.
Denis explains in an interview why Feyd's teeth are black. Since their sun is black, to portray that, they filmed all their daylight scenes in Infared to really show the contrast of thr white and black. He admits the black teeth was unintentional but liked the way it looked. He admits it was a bold move to film this way as there is no way to reverse it, other than filming all the scenes over again
I get the explanations of a Black Sun, but not the black teeth. Some Harkonnen teeth are not black and Feyd's teeth are still black on Arrakis with a normal sun and in the interiors of Giedi Prime.
I am conflicted about the film, tho less so now that I've seen it twice in IMAX and plan to watch it at least one more time in the theater.
On the one hand, I thought the movie was epic, wildly entertaining and I had a great time, which flew by. The movie did NOT feel like it was 2 hrs 46 mins long. However, I was left a bit cold by the ending, I wasn't a fan of the changes in Chani, who, in the book, was studying to become the next reverend mother before Jessica showed up and took her place. She was a true believer and only began to show doubt in Messiah.
That being said, I think her and Paul's relationship can be mended early in Part 3, if they use Alia's birth as a vehicle for bringing Jessica and Chani together, where Jessica can explain to her that she could never have married Paul, just like Jessica wasn't Leto's wife, then give Chani a modified version of the Wives Speech, upon which she convinces her to give Paul another chance and join him off-planet to fight by his side in his campaign against the Great Houses. She could be unknowingly pregnant and lose the baby in battle, bringing her and Paul closer together, determined to start a family. Cut to 16 years later, the two are ruling from Arrakis and are still trying to conceive. That's when the intrigue begins. Villeneuve should make the rest of the movie follow the basic plotline of the book, but ramp up the palace intrigue to peak GoT level tension, until the final, tragic conclusion. We should leave the theater exhilarated, awed and heartbroken in the most satisfying way possible.
Yeah it was definitely the best cinematic experience I’ve ever had, since part one anyway. I was completely immersed in the world and in awe. However, there’s definitely a lot that could’ve been done to enhance it - it should’ve been at least half an hour longer, we should’ve got more spice navigators and interstellar travel stuff, the emperor and to some degree Irulan didn’t feel like royalty - there was no decadence to them whatsoever and it just felt like a strange choice to make, also I do feel like Florence Pugh was miscast as Irulan, but she did a fine job anyway. The Harkonnens were all completely wasted, Feyd somewhat less so but they were reduced to marvel-esque villains in part two, whereas in the first movie the Baron had an air of mystery and felt more menacing. I do actually like the way they handled Alia, and that cameo was genius. Everything else was great, but it seriously needs an extended cut
Thanks for your grounded thoughts and opinions while still enjoying the movie. I think that's what some people fail to see. Someone who has some issues or things they don't like about the movie can still be classed as someone who enjoyed the movie and the experience. Some people are being way too harsh towards those who say they don't like a point or two about the film, almost like a blind fanatical follower ;)
I have a lot of nitpicks with both Part 1 & 2. BUT, that said........ they are the best films I have seen since LotR.
My biggest complaint in Part 1 was the Shadout Mapes scene. Its ALMOST perfect. But when Jessica goes to put the knife away, Mapes says that it cannot be sheathed without drawing blood. When they skipped that in the movie I figured that it was a choice to leave out that bit of lore. BUT BUT, at the end of the film when Paul and Jessica meet the Fremen the Fremen all cut themselves before putting their knives away......... Yes..... its a nitpick. But I just want some internal consistancy.
It was shown at the end of part one before the fight with Jamis you can see Stilgar and the other Frmen slicing the wrists
@@azmodanpc yes, I said that. Thats the issue. Is that they do it in one scene but not another. internal consistancy. Script Super should have caught that.
I’ve been a dune fanatic since 1995 when I first started reading the series at 15 years old. I’ve been trying to get people into Dune ever since so now that the second film is finally out and I’ve seen it twice, I couldn’t be happier.it’s almost a perfect film.
My favorite part is Jessica. She was absolutely terrifying. I wanted so much more of her character. I also of course liked Feyd. I love the change that Timothy played in Paul’s character after he drank the water of life. He was almost a completely different person which is exactly what should’ve happened. Of course I got chills when he stood up and told everyone that no one could defeat him. I like the changes they made with Chani as well. The sand worm riding test was a religious experience.
The only bad parts of the film mainly had to do with poor casting choices. Just like the poor casting choice of Aquaman as Duncan Idaho in the first film, in part two Christopher Walken should never been cast as the emperor. He was too old and threw off the scenes he was in. Personally, I would’ve cast the bad guy in Casino Royale has the Emperor. Believe it or not, I also thought, Josh Brolin did a mediocre job in the part two film and I think most of it was because of poor casting for that role. I like him and a lot of movies but I don’t think he was right for Dune parts one and two.
But the cinematography, VFX, editing , sound and music, special effects, language, costumes, were just so good and Dune part two that it made me want to live in that world. It made me want to watch a 10 part 10 hour series just going over the first book. Instead of making a trilogy, they should give the Director a ton of money to put Dune Messiah and children of Dune in a TV series. I would die a happy man if that happened ha ha.
Love your channel. I can tell you love Dune as much as I do.
Thanks, I'm glad that comes through in my videos. I do love the Dune books.
Let's be honest. The original book moves pretty fast after Paul takes the Water Of Life, too. It's a bit harder to notice because the book gives us more characters that we've had time to get to know (for example, Feyd has been developing since an early chapter of "Part 1," and Thufir has a proper exit), but go ahead and count the pages and then compare with the rest of the book. It's AMAZING how quickly everything comes together and resolves.
I don't disagree that it's a flaw in the plotline, but it's not Denis's flaw. I think the movie handled it well. Aside from deleting Thufir (I wanted to see him refuse the command to kill Paul, dammit! 😢). And, I totally thought Alia was gonna be a mocap character like Gollum too. Ah well. C'est la vie.
If they added the Thufir scene in, and other elements like showing the Emperor's ship set up the Sardaukar camp instead of cutting straight to it already set, maybe it wouldn't have felt like it wasn't fast? Still yes things do fall into place quickly in the book too I guess so you're probably right about that.
In my language we call Egypt, Mısır. I believe that comes from Arabic. Well, we have a lot of words that are coming from Arabic but this one is new to me.
Also, Stilgar says "as it is written" a few times in the movie but there is not a reference to "a book". I believe it is meant to be a Kur'an reference.
frank herbert admits most roots of the fremen are Arabic and that the pillars and the element of their faith is predominantly Islamic with Buddhist and Hindu influences and mix as well, like prana pindu etc.
You hit every good point and criticism I've had thinking about Dune pt 2 and then some.
I'm glad I was able to touch on all those points you were thinking, means that it's "not just me" then I guess, haha. Thanks for watching!
Watching the premier, incredible so far
Thank you very much!
Two of those changes you dislike were ones that I really appreciated. Those would be what they say about the Harkonnen lineage and the secularism of the younger Fremen.
House Atreides is defined almost entirely by its good points in Part 1 -- especially Leto, who loves his family and saves his miners, but doesn't enjoy framing his enemies or say he will exploit the Fremen like in the novel. Meanwhile, the Harkonnens are as sick as a PG13 rating allows. This is the simple good-evil contrast Irulan manufactured in the chapter headings, portrayed with the objective film eye. I feared this meant that audiences might miss the "warning label" Herbert attached to Paul. Perhaps. But when Paul says to Jessica, "We are Harkonnens; time to act like we are," he identifies himself with the worst tyrant the setting remembers. Perhaps audiences will be prepared for _that_ conversation in Messiah, if it happens, or Villeneuve will convey the spirit WW2 veteran Herbert wrote it with.
The Fremen culture is richer when we can see that there are as many consistencies as there are variations -- whether by region, age, etc. They are more like a real group of people. Paul and Jessica have to be more adept to control them. Minority Fremen resistance to the prophecy makes their perpetuation of it throughout the universe a greater tragedy. This new Chani seems to be the avatar, the individual who represents the group tendency. I think that has promise.
With every change from Villeneuve I felt, "Yeah, that could work." I was actually wowed by these two in the cinema.
Thanks for your thoughts, R. Ali bro.
Yeah fair points you made. That's what I meant when I said it's a weird film to review and two opposing views both being right. For example there are some people who didn't like the Jessica change, calling her a lunatic towards the end of the film. I think as a film itself, all the changes make it work and are plausible.
The charisma of thimothee chalamet blows me away. Specially when you see him in interviews being so cute. He's an amazing actor
Absolutely, that polarised feeling is exactly what I thought, it's a frustratingly great film. A great film when compared to most other blockbusters of our era, but a frustrating adaptation of the book, and had it been a bit closer to the book and about 30- 45 minutes longer it would be a true masterpiece
At the end of the day, those choices and changes were intentional and if there are any new polarising aspects that enter into the Dune fandom, it is because of those choices.
What I hope is that the film will encourage viewers to read the books, I've seen the film 5 times now and each time I see it my main feeling coming out of the cinema is a renewed sense of admiration for Frank Herbert.@@secretsofdune
Perhaps those are all the other tribes' Reverend Mothers of the Freman coming together. What, did you think, there was only one tribe?
I deleted my previous comment because editing your comment changed the context of my answer. No, I never believed that there was only one tribe.
I have not seen it yet, waiting to get the family together like last time.
I just wanted to say, I have looked at the numbers and parts 1& 2 have basically pulled in a billion dollars between them!!!!!!!!!!
All those people, those movie/media critics, studio executives over decades who said Dune was too convoluted to be done well and too "high brow" for a wide audience to ever be interested in and crapped on the efforts of any who attempted it prior. I am so glad they have been proven wrong. Thank you to all involved in the 80's Dune movie, all involved in the SyFy channels Dune series, you kept the flame alive across the generations long enough for us to be where we now are regarding Dune.
I actually think this is a very good movie, but it leaves you wanting and by that I mean the scenes in the beginning are cut too fast and go to different subjects and just leave you wanting even though it is a good movie
Although the film was largely enjoyable and a successful production, it refused to step into the batter’s box to hit some easy fastballs. Not servicing Thufir, not delving into the Guild’s enormous influence in political affairs rivaling other Galactic power centers, making Chani a secular super soldier antagonist rather than Paul’s loyal romantic companion, not connecting Liet as Chani’s mother, not seeing Paul in combat in the final battle (laughably giving us Chani in combat instead), Stilgar not being a serious person, and on and on. However, the film was still something to experience, even if they twisted some of Frank Herbert’s original intentions. Ultimately, the film is bittersweet for me. One of easily serviced missed opportunities. Paul’s performance was truly outstanding.
Finally!! Someone else is making the Giedi Prime-Polytecnique comparison! It was the first thing that came to mind when I saw the trailers
Same here! In fact I mentioned it in my very first Dune 2 trailer breakdown because that was the first thing I thought of: ua-cam.com/video/e7PgiEqxyIg/v-deo.html
Hey, i dont really have much to add but I wish you a blessed month of Ramadan and a blessed Eid in the coming weeks. Thank you for providing such fantastic insight into the Dune universe all these years while also being fair in your assesement of all the adaptations.
Likewise! That’s very kind of you to say. I really just want to be fair and honest in these reviews and analysis so I’m glad that you noticed that. Thanks for watching!
Excellent analysis. In-depth and eloquent.
Thanks for that, I appreciate it.
Hi Secrets of Dune, I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on part 2! What's your thoughts on Denis saying that Frank Herbert wrote Dune Messiah as a response to people thinking Paul was the good guy? The evidence suggests that Frank wrote and planned the first 3 books of the series before Dune was ever released.
I will be covering that in a video. It has been something I've kept a close eye on for a long time. You're absolutely right in that there was always a plan. I don't like what I've heard in all honesty.
The only review I was waiting for
That means a lot I tried to be honest, fair and to reflect everyone's opinions (not just my own) when making this.
Dude, the black teeth was mentioned in the book! Are you serious? I can't remember if he pulled that from other books, but Denis DEFINITELY snuck a LOT of things from the lore that wasn't actually IN the first Dune novel. He even included SOME things that were written by Brian Herbert & Kevin J. Anderson...so he's giving love in the form of visual & audio Easter eggs all over the place for the Dune universe...as a WHOLE!
I don't recall Feyd with black teeth in the Dune book or other books. Evidence of that would be welcome. I said it was never explained in the film...
I have a question. Where in the first Dune book do we actually encounter a navigator? I have no memory of a scene with a navigator. Thank you.
I really enjoyed Jessica's character in the film! When she described clear prescience as "the beauty and the horror" - it reminded me of the overbearing repetition in the novel of the "terrible purpose". A burden that Paul carries as the Kwisatz Haderach. I think the weakest part of the film was the animated dream sequences. It felt like an odd departure from the dreams in the first film.
Do you think these issues could have been resolved if they had gone for 4/3 parts instead of 2? Or 2 parts were doable
If each part was 3 or 3 1/2 hours long, maybe it would have worked in film format.
15:00 some have argued that this particular plot point could have been a ruse by Jessica to push on another facet of the prophecy that she probably knew about : that sihaya (desert spring's tears) would save the Lisan al-Gaib. She even uses the voice on Chani, to force her to do it, because Chani resists (Chani represents opposition to everything related to the prophecy in DV's adaptation). When Stilgar says it out aloud, she could have feigned surprise (her expression is hard to read there, but she doesn't sound surprised).
And, just after she does give him another drop of the water of life, you can hear "the voice" tell him to rise, as if to give him the queue.
This would also explain why Jessica later says "Sorry about Chani", recognizing that she used her for their plan.
Knowing how much DV loves to go into details, this sounds like quite probable.
That means in the movie, Jessica can control when a person cries and make them cry on cue just by saying "do it." I personally wasn't convinced by that notion. If Chani was so clued up about "this prophecy is how they enslave us," I'm surprised she didn't know about the voice among the Fremen. That was also missing from the book. One of the first warnings Stilgar gives Jessica, is that if she uses the voice, that he cannot protect her or the boy anymore.
I’m so glad child Alia was not in the movie. It seemed silly in the Lynch adaptation.
Yes exactly - very good decision, it would’ve been creepy and unrealistic to film (as it is in Lynch’s)
I just need floating Guild navigator in the tank, with dark theme music in the background. That's all I need 😂
I watched dune part 2 in cinema 4 times and 2 times in streaming and I adore it even more, I have read the first two books and now I'm reading Children of Dune, waiting to read all the Cicle of Dune. I loved Dune part One so much, watched it 6 or 7 times, these two movies are Masterpice and I think Frank Herbert would be very proud of Denis Villeneuve...Can't wait for Dune Messiah, even if will be an hard job...
As someone who has a sweet spot for the SciFi-Channel Adaptation of Dune, i really have my problems with Villeneuves Dune. While i can praise the craftmenship and acknowledge, that it is a great movie, i feel like it fell short of some things i loved about the Mini Series. I didn´t read the books (shame on me, i know) so i cannot comment on how accurate the series is, but the nature of being a series (albeit a short one) it felt that it had much more time to "breath", to develop the characters and give moments of rest or quiet to really live in that world. The Movie didn´t necessarily felt rushed, but it really felt like we´re seeing beat after beat, following a straight path, which felt really constructed sometimes. The music, while being great, no doubt about that, was like a metronome to the movie, setting the pace for the movie, never leaving room to breath. I have the same problems about Stilgar as you, who i saw as someone who can be looked up to, to almost being a comedic satire to religion purely on his own, leaving only a shell of a man he was in the previous movie.
I am currently watching Shogun on Hulu/Disney+ and i can´t help it but think that Dune should have been adapted as a series again.
I coudn´t find a video you talking about the Dune SciFi-Channel Show adapted in the 2000s to see whats your take on that adaptation but i am always curious what book readers think about that, especially in comparison with the current slate of Dune movies we have so far, since i think the Mini Series is underrated and often even laughed at. Yes, it sometimes is kind of goofy and it does have that particular late 90s early 2000s TV - SciFi feel to it, but i think it is very much enjoyable and i think its pretty close to the Book, since comparing it to Villeneuves Dune part one, they have a lot of the same beats and quotes, so much so that i remember watching Villeneuves movie back in 2021 and not being surprised by the story at all, sinc e i remembered a lot from the show.
I will be talking about the mini series in the future I think (which I loved). It's what lead me to the books and as you say, it gave Dune time to breathe which I think is vital.
@@secretsofdune looking forward to that video!
Youre overdoing the criticism of stilgars comedic moments imo. Its like 2 or 3 (pretty funny imo) moments only in the first half of the movie that don't take away from the tradegy of what he becomes in the second half of the movie in my opinion. I also found him very charismatic in both movies. Also calling Chanis friend "alia baiting" 😂😭 come on man... Also Jessica used the voice to force chani to use her tears, i have no idea how you missed that.
There were some moments that weren't supposed to be funny that people laughed at like the quick "Lisan al Gaib" moment which is now becoming a meme. That's sort of what I meant. Trust me, hundreds of comments about the poster "who's the girl?" "Is that Alia?" "Is that Jessica's daughter?" "Alia!!" when I shared the posters on my socials. It felt like Alia-bating, maybe it wasn't intentional but that's how people took her on the poster to be. I didn't miss the jessica using the voice part, I might have mixed up the order it happened though. I thought she said spoke about the legend with conviction before Jessica used the voice (still seen the movie once).
I agree with everything adressed in this video. I was thinking about these things too👍
And about Paul and Jessica's Harkonnen past. Maybe it was said because
1) Paul called him grandfather and perhaps was to hint that by killing the Baron and Feyd, he took Harkonnen's power and lineage away (idk) And
2) maybe to open the door for audiences to later understand about Alia's future plots in the coming movie(s). 🤔
Well glad I’m not the only one. Yes that could be the reason why the Harkonnen lineage was mentioned. I hope it’s not going to be a case of “oh he has Harkonnen lineage that’s why he’s evil” as a justification for what Paul does later on, because that would be weird.
@@secretsofdune ah, didn't think of it that way. Makes much more sense in regards of the adaptation, that it could confuse the audiences that have not read the books. I agree, it had to be more careful when letting that information go around. Because the message of the book can be misinterpreted by taking away Paul's own madness and being attributed to his Harkonnen lineage.
Yes, yes, now I see your concern regarding that.
"we finally have a complete screen adaptation of Frank Herbert's first Dune book" 😂😂😂😂😂 seriously, what movies did you see, man?! We have barely fifty percent of the books in the the film, and I mean barely.
The copium with this film is off the charts. Just cause its not overtly woke and actually entertaining, doesn't mean its a masterpiece. Especially when its main function - the proper and respectful adaptation of a novel - was left unachieved!
What have a complete adaptation according to the filmmakers. It doesn’t mean that I think it’s a complete book adaptation with all the book elements in it, as I mention in the review, no guild navigators etc.
I honestly really hated how lady Fenring gave Feyd Rautha the gom jabbar test. That made absolutely no sense. The test is for those trained in the Bene Gesserit way, to see if they can control their impulses and be trusted with their powers. Feyd was not trained as a Bene Gesserit, his value was his bloodline… were they really going to kill him if he failed the test? Just stupid.
Fair point and it was a surprise to me too.
@@johnmckiernan2176 the issue isn’t how he could survive the test, the issue is why would they give it to him at all. Feyd was not a candidate for kwisatz Haderach, his child would have been. So again it makes absolutely no sense.
@@gnomechomsky2524 I haven't read the book in the while, but does it say the only males who can pass the test - and the only males given it - are potential Kwisatz Haderachs? I honestly cannot recall. Paul passed the test, but Gauis Mohiam was still skeptical about his prospects. I think you might be over-reading what Lady Fenring says about securing the bloodline. I was under the impression that maintain many bloodlines for potential Messiahs, that they give many prospective males the gom jabbar test, that some pass and some fail, and that even those prospects who pass the test, and die later, are cultivated for their bloodlines. Basically, redundancy over the generations; backups and alternatives.
I do regret Chani does not have a more solid backstory, than her simply being against religious beliefs, blind loyalty, politics and the idea of an 'outsider' saving her people. I felt Zendaya wasn't given enough layers to play with, nor did the relationship between Paul and Chani have anything solid to kick-start it with.
- The film didn't acknowledge that Dr Liet-Kynes ‘the Judge of the Change’ was in fact Chani's mother. Depriving Chani of an extra layer of grief and connection to Paul (also grieving a parent), who only survived thanks to her mother. That way they had more to bond over than just Fremen culture and technology. Kynes' legacy both within her family and within the larger Fremen community remains the dream of terraforming Arrakis to make it hospitable. Remember the ecological station from Part One? This was the work of Chani's family over generations.
- Also her mother was a well-known and respected figure among the Fremen, making Chani fully aware of the politics around the dream. Dr Kynes was working for the emperor, politically manipulating as best she could to win gains for the Fremen dream. This is not foreign to Chani. She's not green to the political machinations of the empire. She is the daughter of someone playing the game! So Chani leaving at the end of Part Two felt off.
Interesting point.
I dunno; apart from the Liet Kynes thing, Chani is a much more developed and interesting character compared to in the book, where she comes across as very bland.
Yeah, great, truly...but I really missed baby Alia, both as a character and for her contribution to the story. And if there is one shot that should have been carried over from 1984--in some form--it was Alia on the battlefield, her robes flowing in the wind, crysknife in hand, being the very embodiment of Fremen victory.
Yeah, what a shot...
Sadly I am one of the few that did not like the movie. I was so hyped for it when I saw part 1. It was my most anticipated thing ever. I even read the book because the wait was too long. And after seeing it, I just couldn't help it. I did not have a good time. I think Denis went too heavy handed with the message, misunderstood some of it, stripped the story down to it's bare bones, made most of the characters blander, and I am not a fan of his minimalist, brutalist style. I know I know, blasphemy of the highest order. But that's just how I feel. So much good stuff got cut, and yet the movie has like 15 minutes worth of action scenes, that were invented for the movie. Dune was never about the fighting and the action. I would have gladly skipped out on most action scenes, for more character moments. But I guess that's only me. And I also know that both movies have like 2 hours of extra character scenes, that were cut, and that Denis will never release what he cut.
Anyway, I am waiting for another adaptation to get the story right. I have written multiple pages worth of essays about what I didn't like about Dune Part 2. Literally everyone has had their chance to praise the movie. Right now I am like Chani at the end of this movie, while everyone else is like Stilgar.
Really interesting analogy at the end of your comment haha. I hear what you are saying. I am definitely seeing a kind of fanaticism for the film. I'm extremely happy for those that love this movie and think its a masterpiece and even a perfect film, I couldn't be more happier for them. For those who wish to express their feelings which oppose that view though, they shouldn't have be talked down to, or dismissed as foolish etc.
@@secretsofdune Thankfully the larger Dune fandom has been really respectful, and open to discussion (It's a lot harder to explain to someone who hasn't read Dune, why I didn't care for it.). I try my best to make good arguments when discussing what I didn't like about it. And I have been on the other end of this discussion too, so I know how they feel. I have defended Denis Blade Runner 2049, when very big enthusiasts of the original Blade Runner, have gone after it. I understand some of their points, but I also got what Denis was trying to do with his sequel. But here I am at the other end of the liked-disliked spectrum.
Nice work! A worthy addition to the Dune fandom.
I like to think of these movies as being BASED on the books rather than being an adaptation. The film therefore fits well within Villeneuve's oeuvre and is beautiful to watch.
Although I have enjoyed Timothée's performances in other works, including Dune One, he somehow never quite rises to the level of a messianic figure--I remain unconvinced.
Austin Butler's performance was for me one of the most compelling. Although, his fighting left something to be desired. He never quite sold it--it always looked like acting. Timothée was more convincing in this respect.
Finally, the love story elements between Paul and Chani feel like too much of a sentimental Hollywood comprise for my taste. In this adaptation, the significance of their relationship feels out of proportion to that of the wider saga.
Peace ✌
Thank you. That's the right way to see it I think, based on the books and it definitely fits into Villeneuve's filmography nicely.
I liked it despite being underwhelmed. I thought pt1 was a much better showing of the Dune universe and it's characters.
I strongly agree that this is part 2 of 3. It needs a concluding episode and I can wait for Denis to do it too.
Maybe a wild take, but my read on Feyd and his harpies' black teeth was because they were cannibals. Feyd mentions feeding the harpies twice so I assumed he at some point partakes as well. No other Harkonnens had black teeth that I noticed, only those stated to be cannibals. Perhaps something about eating Harkonnen makes your teeth black...
No I think that's a very valid point and quite possible! In fact I do think that's probably what they were trying to say, I just wish that it had been explained better. I like your added idea at the end which suggests Harkonnen flesh does that to the teeth.
@@secretsofdune The poison in the blood/flesh that stains teeth? That would be interesting...
It does raise some other questions though, why would Feyd eat the same low quality meat as his harpies. Maybe some things are just not meant to be overthought haha @@zenster1097
I never even noticed that “other girl” on the movie poster. That does seem a bit disingenuous.
I received so many comments on UA-cam, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter/X asking about her. "Alia?" "Who is the little girl in the poster?" I had a lot of explaining to do, and it bothered me in the end.
No mention of the Orange Catholic Bible yet? Or the Butlerian Jihad? Or have I missed it?
I do prefer the bald heads of the Harkonnens to the red hair!
Nope, no mention of those either. I thought they would mention Zensunni early to introduce Hayt from Dune Messiah later on, but it seems they won't be ascribing that label to Hayt for that film adaptation.
@@secretsofdune yeah, true. I also think the main omission is the whole point about the spice and why it’s so invaluable. So far it just seems like tea would have been treated in the days of the East India Co. An expensive luxury, rather than the most important thing in the universe required for (folding) space travel.
You're right, it's more tea trade than black gold @@wicky4473 which is a shame...
The Lynch film had a distinctive and captivating strangeness that I've always appreciated, particularly in its portrayal of the transformation into a super being. However, I found Villenuves lacking in providing a thorough explanation for the significance of the spice and the motivations behind the conflicts it generates. Additionally, the absence of the navigators' interaction with Paul at the end was disappointing. Despite enjoying the spectacle, I feel the narrative fell short. Adapting Dune into a movie is undoubtedly a monumental challenge, and while this recent adaptation succeeded in many ways, it still necessitates reading the novel to fully appreciate its complexity, unlike the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Maybe the third instalment will alter my oinion, but i just feel that it really just wasnt wierd enough.
Dune actually needed 3 movies, we can be glad we have what we have but if they could have seen the future back in the planning stages of part 1, there would be 3 movies.
The time gap was a mistake in my view, I believe it was done because they couldn't really figure out how to do Alia and they weren't willing to go all in.
In the 1984 lynch movie there is scene near the end with Alia and her knife on the burning battlefield, the old movie did do some things this movie couldn't.
That shot will always be a Dune icon to me.
How long until you think we will able to find out about the deleted scenes from part two and to know what they were.
I’m working on it 😉
none, villeneuve wont release deleted scenes....EVA !! straight from the horse's mouth !!
Yes I don't think that will ever change@@chasx7062 but I might still be able to find out what exactly was cut and get some of those scenes and frames.