Footwork, to create the time, to create the space, that allows a pure movement...the sequence is everything. Learning it here and the dropping will continue until morale improves. Closing in on 10 consecutive.
@@TysonMcGuffinPickleball I have a mop bucket that is at the edge of "the garbage dump" on purpose...to entice overreaching and the weak returns that being stretched inward to the ultimate will provide. while being unassailable. Not at the "unassailable" level that's okay this is a big weapon going to have to pay the price. Starting next 1,500. When I have it there will be no mercy. My own personal "Shake and Bake" in singles. Makes that forehand practice even more juicy, moving in from the left ..the space is already created for the forehand..I just don't see how that isn't worth investing alot of time cultivating. - the tip down has cultivated my ability to take the backhand with a sharper brush up to get some nicer crosscourt angles and for that my game thanks you.
thanks, this was a super timely concept. I was really struggling lately to get in position for a decent 3rd shot drop off the strong return of serves. thanks for the content
Okay, so I’m the kind of student who can watch a video & then go out on the court & repeat what I watched. Here’s the problem though. Normally I modify everything to fit myself & most people doing videos don’t say why the viewer ought to do something. They only say what the viewer ought to do. Without telling us why, we can’t modify the advice to properly fit our unique situation. We can only mimic the person we learn from. You on the other hand tell the viewer why we ought to do what we ought to do & that is more significantly helpful to us who don’t want to merely mimic you, but still want to learn from you. Thanks for the ‘why’ behind your advice. It’s much appreciated & very few teachers actually do this. Now, back to your video. 😎
GREAT ADVICE! Now you have me wondering if I should teach players to do the same with slow paced serves. I'm going to change the 2-syllable word "apex" to "top".
Great content, as always. You both break down your techniques and drills into actionable steps. I will be a pro in no-time with these skills. In all honesty working on small, consistent improvements in your game is key, look forward to working on this next time on court. Keep up the great training!
Great video! In higher level play I struggle with the better returns. Deep, hard, spin. hitting below a nice apex is not common anymore. Is the half volley your go to, or how else can you counter?
This was a major issue for me (it seemed as though it was easier for everyone else to return and I was struggling) I have had success with a flatter swing path instead of going for a top spin or downward slice as timing is less of a factor if you are swinging flatter.
Hi, and thanks for demonstrating. Question? If Kyle returns the 3rd shot drop properly in the kitchen, why does he need to travel part-way up to the transition zone and not all the way up to the NVZ? It seems more risky and difficult there to return a decent return by Tyson.
It’s usually just a matter of time. You don’t want to hit while moving, and you will usually have to stop in transition and hit at least one more ball after a third shot drop on your way to the kitchen line.
Good instruction, however, you're incorrectly using the terms "accelerating" and "decelerating" starting at 0:22" - if you substitute "ascending" and "descending" for these, you will be correct. Pickleballs accelerate when they are falling (descending), and decelerate when they are rising (ascending off a bounce), all because of gravity. For an instant at the apex, the ball is only moving horizontally, and horizontal motion remains constant unless a paddle hits the ball. It's difficult to contact the ball exactly at the apex - you are catching the ball as it is descending and accelerating downward at 2:48", for example.
Yes, this is barely even Physics 101. But physics gets hard, quickly. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to _prove_ than no spinning sphere that models a pickleball, moving through still air, continues to decelerate past the apex. It's pretty clear that if you fire a ball out of a canon straight down, it will decelerate and not accelerate. If you fire a ball out of a canon horizontally, it's pretty clear it will decelerate as it begins to arc downward. But if you fire a ball out of a canon horizontally, parallel and close to the ground, and then examine the ball after the first bounce, it's almost certain to have intense top spin, and now you're having to use actual fluid mechanics. Now you also have an _angular_ kinetic energy reservoir, as well as energy in a turbulent pressure wave in the ball's forward path. Can you get the right spin on a baseball _after_ it bounces off a hard surface to behave like a corkscrew pitch? Most pickleballs are actually not perfectly symmetrical, because of the drill hole pattern. If it can be induced to corkscrew slightly just past the apex, there's not much you can definitely say about whether it's accelerating downward or not in the potential energy reference frame. Yikes! We've just gone from physics 2.0 to physics 6.5. I suppose you can say that the "apex" necessitates a local zero crossing of the vertical velocity vector from positive to negative (aka downward acceleration). However, by any finite epsilon past this point, all bets are off. I give you any ball, and then you can give me an epsilon where the downward acceleration is certain to continue. Seems like you still win. But then you give me any fixed epsilon, maybe I can then give you a ball where the downward acceleration is _not_ certain to continue (local corkscrew effect), and now it seems like I win. You cheat by giving me a _really_ small epsilon, I'll quote quantum tunneling effects. Then you'll have to argue that motion due to quantum tunneling isn't properly an acceleration. Pedanticism is tough, when you do it right.
@@afterthesmash Einstein's quote might apply here: " If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." @Allan Stokes, you might want to discuss further with your partner Navier.
Great instruction: try to avoid half-volley third shots (most difficult); try to contact ball just after the apex (generally easiest). Substituting ascending for accelerating and descending for decelerating would be helpful to students. Newtonian physics nerds might say that, ignoring air resistance, the ball is accelerating towards the ground at 9.8 meters per second per second as long as it is not touching the ground. At the apex, vertical velocity will be zero and kinetic energy will be minimized. True physics nerds will point out that air resistance will diminish both horizontal velocity, vertical velocity and spin; However these actual energy losses (and corresponding changes in velocity) will be negligible. Contacting the ball just after the apex has two advantages: first, the ball's kinetic energy is near a local minimum, so the paddle momentum will be proportionally greater (the paddle dominates the ball); second, the slight downward trajectory of the ball is nearly opposite the slight upward trajectory of the paddle face, thereby minimizing the angle of reflection (the paddle strikes the ball squarely and sends it right back where it came from). Contacting the ball after the apex, compared to a half volley, has the disadvantage of requiring a longer flight to the clear the net - usually a good tradeoff unless you need to step in a flowerbed or get jammed against a wall. We can safely ignore the motion of the court through space and non-Newtonian considerations. Tyson's math equation reminder got me going. 🤓
once the ball hits the ground it accelerates? i think that is physically impossible unless the ball is spinning at a gajillion rpms. it gets there quicker because you are closer...obviously, but i think physics would say it can't be speeding up. its like a baseball on old astroturf...looks like it speeds up...its just doesn't slow down as much. do love the drills though!
You are probably right. I think our terminology is probably not perfect as neither of us were physics majors 😂. The principle to take away is that the ball is moving at a higher speed before it reaches its apex and slower after the apex. That’s why it’s easier to control your shot if you hit it after the apex.
I love that you give consideration to older players
This game is for everyone but we are conscientious of the fact that sometimes drills/games need to be modified at times 👍.
Footwork, to create the time, to create the space, that allows a pure movement...the sequence is everything. Learning it here and the dropping will continue until morale improves. Closing in on 10 consecutive.
Love it!
@@TysonMcGuffinPickleball I have a mop bucket that is at the edge of "the garbage dump" on purpose...to entice overreaching and the weak returns that being stretched inward to the ultimate will provide. while being unassailable. Not at the "unassailable" level that's okay this is a big weapon going to have to pay the price. Starting next 1,500. When I have it there will be no mercy. My own personal "Shake and Bake" in singles. Makes that forehand practice even more juicy, moving in from the left ..the space is already created for the forehand..I just don't see how that isn't worth investing alot of time cultivating. - the tip down has cultivated my ability to take the backhand with a sharper brush up to get some nicer crosscourt angles and for that my game thanks you.
Good stuff guys. I like the mentality of taking your time and being willing to hit a few shots to get in. Rather than forcing a great-risky shot.
You have more time than you think out there 👍
thanks, this was a super timely concept. I was really struggling lately to get in position for a decent 3rd shot drop off the strong return of serves. thanks for the content
Glad this helped. More to come!
Thanks for the excellent instruction and drills. Very helpful for a newer player like myself!
Glad it was helpful! More videos to come!
Okay, so I’m the kind of student who can watch a video & then go out on the court & repeat what I watched. Here’s the problem though. Normally I modify everything to fit myself & most people doing videos don’t say why the viewer ought to do something. They only say what the viewer ought to do. Without telling us why, we can’t modify the advice to properly fit our unique situation. We can only mimic the person we learn from.
You on the other hand tell the viewer why we ought to do what we ought to do & that is more significantly helpful to us who don’t want to merely mimic you, but still want to learn from you.
Thanks for the ‘why’ behind your advice. It’s much appreciated & very few teachers actually do this. Now, back to your video. 😎
Thank you for your feedback. We think it's important to cover all 5 Ws.
GREAT ADVICE! Now you have me wondering if I should teach players to do the same with slow paced serves. I'm going to change the 2-syllable word "apex" to "top".
Go for it!
Great content, as always. You both break down your techniques and drills into actionable steps. I will be a pro in no-time with these skills. In all honesty working on small, consistent improvements in your game is key, look forward to working on this next time on court. Keep up the great training!
Getting great at anything involves a lot of little steps in the right direction 😀.
Great teaching guys. You are great!
The only thing is I was a little distracted ...
Glad you liked the video 😀
Great video! In higher level play I struggle with the better returns. Deep, hard, spin. hitting below a nice apex is not common anymore. Is the half volley your go to, or how else can you counter?
I think you want to try to wait for the apex, but sometimes you will have to settle for the half volley if the return is deep with a lot of pace 👍.
This was a major issue for me (it seemed as though it was easier for everyone else to return and I was struggling) I have had success with a flatter swing path instead of going for a top spin or downward slice as timing is less of a factor if you are swinging flatter.
Hi, and thanks for demonstrating. Question? If Kyle returns the 3rd shot drop properly in the kitchen, why does he need to travel part-way up to the transition zone and not all the way up to the NVZ? It seems more risky and difficult there to return a decent return by Tyson.
It’s usually just a matter of time. You don’t want to hit while moving, and you will usually have to stop in transition and hit at least one more ball after a third shot drop on your way to the kitchen line.
@@TysonMcGuffinPickleball thanks stud! makes sense.
I have that same net. Is the middle of your net 1 1/2" too high? I had to cut the metal piece to make the net the correct height in the middle.
This was filmed at a friends home so I’m actually not sure.
Love this drill T
Glad it was helpful 😀
Good instruction, however, you're incorrectly using the terms "accelerating" and "decelerating" starting at 0:22" - if you substitute "ascending" and "descending" for these, you will be correct. Pickleballs accelerate when they are falling (descending), and decelerate when they are rising (ascending off a bounce), all because of gravity. For an instant at the apex, the ball is only moving horizontally, and horizontal motion remains constant unless a paddle hits the ball. It's difficult to contact the ball exactly at the apex - you are catching the ball as it is descending and accelerating downward at 2:48", for example.
Thanks for the correction 👍
Yes, this is barely even Physics 101.
But physics gets hard, quickly. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to _prove_ than no spinning sphere that models a pickleball, moving through still air, continues to decelerate past the apex.
It's pretty clear that if you fire a ball out of a canon straight down, it will decelerate and not accelerate.
If you fire a ball out of a canon horizontally, it's pretty clear it will decelerate as it begins to arc downward.
But if you fire a ball out of a canon horizontally, parallel and close to the ground, and then examine the ball after the first bounce, it's almost certain to have intense top spin, and now you're having to use actual fluid mechanics. Now you also have an _angular_ kinetic energy reservoir, as well as energy in a turbulent pressure wave in the ball's forward path.
Can you get the right spin on a baseball _after_ it bounces off a hard surface to behave like a corkscrew pitch? Most pickleballs are actually not perfectly symmetrical, because of the drill hole pattern. If it can be induced to corkscrew slightly just past the apex, there's not much you can definitely say about whether it's accelerating downward or not in the potential energy reference frame.
Yikes! We've just gone from physics 2.0 to physics 6.5.
I suppose you can say that the "apex" necessitates a local zero crossing of the vertical velocity vector from positive to negative (aka downward acceleration). However, by any finite epsilon past this point, all bets are off. I give you any ball, and then you can give me an epsilon where the downward acceleration is certain to continue. Seems like you still win. But then you give me any fixed epsilon, maybe I can then give you a ball where the downward acceleration is _not_ certain to continue (local corkscrew effect), and now it seems like I win.
You cheat by giving me a _really_ small epsilon, I'll quote quantum tunneling effects. Then you'll have to argue that motion due to quantum tunneling isn't properly an acceleration.
Pedanticism is tough, when you do it right.
@@afterthesmash Even nerds play pickleball. Thanks for the physics lesson, now Im gonna play.
@@afterthesmash Einstein's quote might apply here: " If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." @Allan Stokes, you might want to discuss further with your partner Navier.
Great instruction: try to avoid half-volley third shots (most difficult); try to contact ball just after the apex (generally easiest).
Substituting ascending for accelerating and descending for decelerating would be helpful to students.
Newtonian physics nerds might say that, ignoring air resistance, the ball is accelerating towards the ground at 9.8 meters per second per second as long as it is not touching the ground. At the apex, vertical velocity will be zero and kinetic energy will be minimized. True physics nerds will point out that air resistance will diminish both horizontal velocity, vertical velocity and spin; However these actual energy losses (and corresponding changes in velocity) will be negligible.
Contacting the ball just after the apex has two advantages: first, the ball's kinetic energy is near a local minimum, so the paddle momentum will be proportionally greater (the paddle dominates the ball); second, the slight downward trajectory of the ball is nearly opposite the slight upward trajectory of the paddle face, thereby minimizing the angle of reflection (the paddle strikes the ball squarely and sends it right back where it came from).
Contacting the ball after the apex, compared to a half volley, has the disadvantage of requiring a longer flight to the clear the net - usually a good tradeoff unless you need to step in a flowerbed or get jammed against a wall.
We can safely ignore the motion of the court through space and non-Newtonian considerations.
Tyson's math equation reminder got me going. 🤓
once the ball hits the ground it accelerates? i think that is physically impossible unless the ball is spinning at a gajillion rpms. it gets there quicker because you are closer...obviously, but i think physics would say it can't be speeding up. its like a baseball on old astroturf...looks like it speeds up...its just doesn't slow down as much. do love the drills though!
You are probably right. I think our terminology is probably not perfect as neither of us were physics majors 😂. The principle to take away is that the ball is moving at a higher speed before it reaches its apex and slower after the apex. That’s why it’s easier to control your shot if you hit it after the apex.
Double drinking good drill.
Glad you like it 😀
little kid no mullet Tyson.
😂
So when did you grow your hair long? Or are you wearing a cool wig now? Either way you a beast!
Did he shave it or is this old?
He's currently injured so probably old. Good drill regardless.
Snow melted in Idaho!
This video was filmed a while back. The hair is still flowing 😂!