Another Doucette Response | Natty Talk
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- So Greg Doucette made another video about me. Are his claims about genetics correct, or are there things going on? Watch now to find out.
0:00 Introduction
1:02 Why most lifters are novices
1:49 Shredded.. and amazing?
2:55 Comic book gains?
4:06 The good fight
4:45 Top tier genetics needed?
5:43 PED users wish they could look like Alpha Destiny?
6:47 You won't look amazing? Greg's "Truth"
7:36 Alpha Destiny has amazing genetics?
8:16 The Chris Bumstead argument
9:02 You always want more? Never satisfied?
10:02 PEDs worsen your body dysmorphia
10:51 Our agreement
11:18 Greg was lied to!
12:47 Drugs and genetics
13:09 "Not everyone has the genetics to be amazing"
13:44 The False-Consensus Effect
14:50 Again.. Elite powerlifter?
15:29 The Will Tennyson argument
17:42 What Greg left out
18:49 Greg's Brother explained
20:45 Extra thoughts on "elite"
21:11 AlphaDestiny has no idea about benching standards?
22:00 Greg doesn't like his own chart?
22:27 Happier or Happy?
23:14 Will most need 99.9% genetics?
23:53 Bad news or fake news?
24:46 Greg lies about "dream physiques"
25:25 The natural journey IS hard
26:00 Be realistic
26:19 The downplaying of drugs
26:57 Genetics matter, but so does context
28:10 Done! What do you think?
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Disclaimer: AlphaDestiny is not a doctor or a medical professional. Always consult a physician before starting any exercise program. Use of this information is strictly at your own risk. AlphaDestiny will not assume any liability for direct or indirect losses or damages that may result from the use of information contained in this video including but not limited to economic loss, injury, illness or death.
#GregDoucette #Bodybuilding #StayNatural - Навчання та стиль
Thanks for response video. Unfortunately a lot of the comments will be from haters that don’t understand the benefits of having everyone debate genetics and what we can achieve. I wonder how many people realize you can actually have a normal discussion about genetics and PED use without thinking it’s some kind of a fight.
I get it you all want to be amazing and look like Henry Cavill or some other famous actor with a great looking physique. I obviously know not everyone is thinking they want to look like Chris hut I don’t they would complain if they did 🤷🏻♂️. I guess I over estimate my genetics. Perhaps I just trained really hard and had an amazing program and ate properly. I guess it’s possible that i have average genetics I got a pro card due to having great work ethic. It’s amazing to have the belief we can almost all achieve elite standard numbers in powerlifting. also awesome that most people can achieve a 10-15% Bodyfat muscular physique of Henry Cavill or perhaps captain America. It’s all great. Perhaps we are not ready to hear that maybe our genetics can stop us form being amazingly. Least we agree on 1 thing which is not to abuse PED’s. Hopefully u enjoyed being a part of my vids. Before I go have a look again at the chart I made just 1 more time and notice it’s their for people with great genetics and poor genetics. A lot of people will only be able to achieve the results I posted for people with poor genetics.
Would be interesting to hear what people think about our genetics related to intelligence. Like can someone of average or even slightly below avg genetics become a doctor or lawyer if they simply study hard enough. I’d be curious to see. Personally I think genetics s is extremely important hut hey I never did good in HS and excelled later in life so many my intelligence is average or below average and the fact I out studied everyone is how I was able to do what I did.
It’s possible I just don’t give myself enough credit. I always thought I wax lucky and choose the right parents. Maybe it’s just all my hard work. 🤷🏻♂️. Wonder what people think in regards to genetics for intelligence???
Greg I really like you and I learned a lot from you, but you are really off here.
To your point I'm not particularly smart, I had a 3.3 GPA in highshool, but I studied my ass off and now I'm in med school .
You also cannot pay me to look like an IFBB pro because they look gross to me.
Alex is 100% right here.
Thanks for stopping by Greg. Some comments will indeed be from haters, but that's just the name of the game. At the end of the day we simply had a discussion about genetics & PEDs so there's no fight, just disagreement about some things. Was fun chatting it up 👍
Actually I'm a huge fan greg but I still disagree with you bro think Logan Franklin or calumn von has or had a better physique than bumstead I dont want to ever look like bumstead
I prefer being tall than having good genetics Greg. Being a manlet is no fun, always trying to prove your point to everyone because your confidence is tied to your physique.
I'm lucky though to be 6' and have great genetics. Geez, even my girlfriend is taller than 5'6.
Most people have average genetics, that's a simple mathematical fact. People have strengths and weaknesses on all levels, these are more apparent in most natural lifters. Some people have strong shoulders and weak arms or visca versa and this applies to all muscle groups to varying degrees. Sure, a majority of people might prefer the broader shoulders aesthetically but that doesn't mean the other guy shouldn't work out to achieve his personal goals and work on his weaknesses to his own abilities.
Greg is black-pilling his audience. He's a prime example of what I call "Schrodinger's genetics": if you make it big natty, he'll say it's because you have elite genetics. If you don't, he'll say it's because you have bad genetics. This mindset fails to take into account consistency, research & hard work, but is not surprising coming from someone who jumped on drugs to surpass a "natural limit" that never existed in the first place.
Facts. Gregs videos are giving me natural atrophy
Because genetics matter more than anything. Having good genetics is a better enhancement than any PD.
True, and his comment section is full of doomers who never stop preaching at people that they'll never achieve their desired physique
This statement of you is a bit far stretch like have you seen when he jumped on gear ? He trained for almost 20 years. He didn't took gear to get bigger or better alone but he did that to get pro card which for sure he couldn't get naturally. Stop putting words in other people's mouth
When natural hypertrophy turns against Greg, you know the tide is beginning to shift
“Not everyone has the genetics to look amazing” but everyone has the ability to look infinitely better than they did when they started.
EXACTLY.
Amazing is subjective anyways so ...
@@ousamaelghazzali4379 Facts
All this talk about genetics just discouraged tf out of me. Then I realized I shouldn't have compared myself with someone else, it's just me and me.
@@iliveinsideyourhouse3943 the only thing that matters is that you're gonna look way better lifting vs not lifting. How others look doesn't matter one bit
I’m a lifetime natural lifter and I’ve gotten “you’re not even muscular” as well as being questioned of being on gear. Everything is in the eye of the beholder.
Yeah all my friends think I’m on hear but my girl says I’m fat and like a teddy bear and she loves it apparently. I think we are all just kinda stupid 😂
Great comment! Truth
@@PanosPitsi it’s funny. Back in the days or even like several years ago, girls loved big buffs or jacked dudes. Now they want a fit guy who’s lean. The call buff guys or jacked guys “fat” now🤣🤣🤣
Depends whether Iv been on a bender or not
Same, i got called roid boy at work plenty of times. i never even do pre workout, let alone hormones.
i say no, but thanks for saying that :)
This “community” is such a farce. You’re a newbie and immediately find Doucette and Athlean X. Good luck with your body dysmorphia.
the only people that want to look like cbum are cbum and his competitors. no one wants to look like him. greg is out of touch with reality
Legit if it wasn’t for finding alphadestinys videos on bear mode etc I’d still be trying to stay ridiculously lean and never have made it to my current physique which I like I have no desire to lose or gain in all honesty.
He-Man sent me here...
LMAO
We should be watching IronWolf high rep burpees no pretty boy shit
I dislike how Greg is extremely focused on the whole "most people can't look good because genetics". It's unnecessary black pilling. With average genetics and hard training over the years you can look amazing as a natural.
I think the point was everyone doesn't have those genetics, right?
Problem is, most people in the fitness industry have a fucked up view of what looks amazing. What normal people find amazing (which includes most women hehe) looks like shit to people who've had their minds warped when they get deep into the fitness industry. It's sad really.
He is just constantly shoving his genetics in people's face, hoping they would be low self-esteem enough to buy his overpriced cook book.
@@marinmarinhola if women would mire bodybuilders it would be the biggest sport on the planet. Normal people and especially women hate steroids and a lot of gyms don't give bodybuilders membership....
@@mounty6854 exactly, but they still think their op7bion is the right one because they "know more" or are more immersed in the fitness industry, despite the fact that most people would find them repulsive.
Greg falls to the same mistakes he criticized others for such as failing to understand someone’s argument, misrepresentation for their argument, or ignoring aspects of their argument completely. However, the people who truly suffer are his fans. His audience is more focused on what is possible for their genetics rather than doing everything possible to train properly despite them.
!!!!
It's heartbreaking and mind-numbing to see a bunch of people who've barely started training already worrying about their genetics...
Most will use it as an excuse to not even try
@@NaturalHypertrophy i Will only Worry about genetics when i hit a plateau after 8 years of training
@@tripper1018 That's the way to do it. we all have a different journey, just put the time in and love thine self
I dont think greg realises how people with bad genetics feel. Its not as easy to "just be a better version of yourself" when u have genetics like greg has. I personally have above average genetics but i really understand people who dont. When u dont see progress and then there are others who are training like morons and grow like wheat. Its just discouraging sometimes.
Greg really used a gymshark athlete as the epitome of strength genetics lol. Really misleading of Greg to call himself a world record powerlifter in the context of squatting (or total), when according to open powerlifting, his best is 573 lbs at 198 lbs at Raw Unity. That's miles away from WR level in that lift for the untested division.
Will u be making a response video to greg too
Also add in 9 years after that meet, and Greg might now squat 500-525, which is absolutely a lift many young natural lifters can surpass.
Edit - Lmaoooo watched the video and Greg hit 365 for a super hard 5 reps, and then Will hits 365 lbs for more than 5. This might be the worst point he's ever made on a topic.
@@CanditoTrainingHQ greg admittedly said he doesn't even do squats anymore due to hip issue. Argument of will beating him on squats doesn't work.
Telling it like it is Jonnie 👍
@@AlexLeonidas You did a phenomenal job on this video. Finished the whole thing now, and each point was right on the money. Realistic optimism for the natty masses.
I think that Greg’s problem is that his definition of a great physique is someone like Chris Bumstead the MR FUCKING OLYMPIA. The majority of people’s definition is literally just someone who just has abs.
Lol imo it ain’t even the abs. I just always appreciated the wide back and big arms physique.
This shows how far you’ve come bro the maturity really shows from back in the day
This is exactly what I was thinking during th whole vid. It's crazy. And in this "debate" it's suprising that the 25 yo seems to be 3 times more mature than the 45 yo.
Agreed. This is a man.
@@michaelthreepeat - Totally agree. Alex has developed his mentality so well. He's so respectful and carries his points/arguments in the most mature way possible. Overall he's one of best, safest and most informative sources of lifting information on UA-cam.
100% agree. Well done Alex.
@@DDB-91 def i agree alex is mature af here and axts that way too, but if you gave him a higher pitch voice and he moved his arms around just a tad bit that feeling would change drastically lol. Alex is just super laid back and deep
How can most people have bad genetics that just defeats the meaning of an average 🤣
Exactly!! It's such an obvious contradiction.
@@AlexLeonidas completely illogical argument
For Greg, bad genetics are anything sub-par to elites.
@@jbarker5095 If you aren't IFBB then you're basically trash and should cancel your gym membership
@@dans1454 your comment cracked me up, thanks mate.
Greg seems like he is so unhappy with his physique that he projects that unto others. Getting more ripped is cool and all, but not at the expense of really enjoying life and horizontal cardio
#TRUTH
Heyyy muchacooooo
Exactly... Most people will be happy at looking better than 99% of the people in the open public by just training as a natural.
I'm def not shredded and don't follow a strict program by any standard, but my measly 185x5 bench is higher than anyone else in the office by far!
Some people understand horizontal cardio 😂😂
It’s probably the manlet syndrome
Greg is speaking from a perspective of someone who has taken stuff most of his career/life which has changed his views on reality. Having the physique he has and being surrounded by ppl in that industry, what he considers to be a good physique is completely different than what most ppl consider a good physique. 99% of ppl would be extremely happy and look amazing reaching 75% of their natural potential. Fitness industry has sold body dysmorphia
Agree. His sense of reality is skewed and he doesn’t realize it.
Gregg was winning shows natty beating roid heads. Gregg hasnt been on shit most his life and career lol he was winning shows natty. Please research befoee you talk.
100% wrong bro, Greg was natural up to his late 30s and competed over a decade natural.
@@christianmontes6213 he was around 30 when his PED use started not late 30s.
@@dh6865 you can’t argue with someone that isn’t objective on a subject. You clearly dislike Greg so you won’t even acknowledge the facts. I’ve been following alpha destiny and greg since they started their channels. They both have valid points but different opinions on some things.
Greg was so unbelievable disrespectful to alex tbh and tried so hard to try and twist everything alex said, I'm so glad you've put him in his place.
Greg is a bitch
@@amadali4036 lmao chill out
How was he disrespectful? I can see where he may have been but honestly I think he's just passionate. There is a difference.
@@kklh7918 by yelling when speaking, twisting arguments and making him saying things he didnt. Passionate is not an excuse to act in an excessive manner.
@Dark Strafer okk
Greg is wrong. He cherry picked your video.. Simple. He's lost touch of reality. His UA-cam "fame" has made his head go pop.
Greg’s voice is f#ckin’ annoying too. Just had to put that out there.
His channel went to shit in the last year. Gives anyone with a bigger following them him a natty “pass” because he’s afraid of burning bridges. Also, just about any athletic male will have pretty good muscle building genetics. Greg is 5’6, talks about his “genetics” but never mentions it’s his short manlet frame that makes the most impact.
@@hazelbud3630 yeah man, I dislike the fact that he is screaming the whole damn time
*go POOP
@@hazelbud3630 I agree. I actually got a headache once just from watching a few of his videos back-to-back. what was even more shocking to me was that he actually does this on purpose. his natural voice actually doesn't sound like that there are videos of him on UA-cam speaking naturally). he's clearly doing that because of this "Persona" that he puts out there to get attention
Greg has to realize that not everyone is obsessed with being a bodybuilder or power lifting or look like Thor. Some people just want to get healthier and stronger. I have no need for drugs because I don't plan on competing and I doubt my wife cares if I can lift more than last time.
You are very right. And frankly even those competitions themselves are not worth it after all, it's been turned into a competition about how to best use performance enhancement to get results not about true athletic ability.
Bodybuilders lives in their own world and they forgot what is reality. For the general population ( which is 99.9 of the world ) you look amazing after the novice phase. They don't understand that competitive bodybuilding and a physique in general are two separate things
Yep Im only 86kg at 188cm yet Im the most ripped guy at my school. Since everybody has clothes on i kinda forget that most ppl dont even have abs lmao
I wouldn't say you look amazing past the novice phase, I'm well past that and I don't look that good unless I pose right and get the right lighting
Despite being an elite lifter, Greg is so fragile, it's honestly so sad. It's like he is so unhappy with his own body that he wants to convince everyone else they could never be happy with themselves too
"elite", and *was
Did he ever have an elite total ?
@@OGfromGst he broke a few bench records and won nationals that got taken away bc he failed a drug test (blamed it on “tainted supps” even tho his test ratio was insanely over the limit), and has a masters bench record in some untested fed. He has performed well in PLing but is overall way too full of himself
Has Ellie genetics, stand 5 for 5 inches. Not even trying to be a dick but most guys his size think about their height everyday.
Did we watch the same vid? Both guys for one have the same core message and two both misrepresented the others argument. So what’s your point
I'm with alpha destiny on this. Also I'd say so long as you're able to train, anyone get a brilliant physique that anyone will be proud of.
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Exactly.
Honest to God my dude, you and Jeff Nippard saved me from taking PEDS.
I realized after watching your videos and Jeff's that it was never my size that was lacking, it was my patience.
Thanks for staying real, truthful and natural.
As a novice lifter, I'm extremely happy with my physique. I know that it's nothing compared to most lifters, but it's better than the avrage person and people compliment me on it in small ways all the time. Whenever I see my novice physique in the mirror I feel really psyched, happy, content and grateful.
I dont dislike Greg. Watched him a lot. But i feel like... of late... he has a crush on Chris' Bumm Stead.
Its actually quite creepy how much he begs for CBum's attention lol
Muscle under the skin and well as _______.
@@davidpersaud4255 *edit* *edit*
It makes sense -- he's the top in the sport Greg dedicated his life to. The disconnect is he projects his own perspective on everyone else, and cites the very fallacy he's using to the hilt and projects it on AD.
Greg is upset that he himself is not an Olympia competitor so him talking about bumstead like that doesn’t surprise me.
How can can Greg say your physique is mostly from genetics when he was beaten by a dude with worse genetics that took PEDs😂
Even he is down playing the effect of steroids and his catch phrase "telling you what you need to hear not what you want to hear" has become laughable.
Weakest person I’ve seen on yt
This channel is one of the main reasons I haven't got into PED's. I am 40 years old and the gains are getting difficult but with proper programming, nutrition and exercise selection I believe I will get where I want to be. With your segments on body dysmorphia I have also realized that I look much better than I previously thought.. thank you for the content
Subbed, alpha you’re one of the few telling the young guys how it is. Fucked my self up for awhile with the sauce as a young guy and coming off made me so depressed I quit lifting for two years. Back on the train now and learning to enjoy the journey over the result!
I'm all about keeping it down to earth, setting realistic goals and expectations, but this pessimistic/nihilistic approach that you can't achieve anything unless you use gear or have 1% elite genetics (or even both) is getting way out of hand. And Greg Doucette isn't the only one guilty of this, I've been seeing similar messages floating around youtube/instagram for a while now. Maybe it's a knee-jerk reaction to fake natties setting unrealistic expectations, idk, but this attitude is definitely taking it too far. It is disempowering and discouraging. The truth is and has always been, that you can achieve success by working hard and working smart. This is true about fitness, this is true about any other thing in life. You're not going to be as successful/rich as Elon Musk, but it doesn't mean you should quit your job and stop trying. And yeah, most normal people don't even want to be that rich in the first place.
Makes sense when most people wont be putting in the hard effort for 10+ years and they damn well know it. They like to hear that you can't do it without drugs or 1% genetics because it makes them feel better about themselves. Most of YT fitness viewers will never put in enough effort, drugs or no drugs to look like or lift like the top 5% of lifters (and we know that within that 5% the people at the very top of this range necessarily do use drugs and/or have top tier genetics. Top 1% from top 5% is a big leap compared to top 80% from 75%). But why is it the top 1-5%? They've done more work for longer than 95% of lifters and the sheer amount of time it takes means they must be doing their training mostly correctly or just for so freaking long it didn't matter so much. Most people are lazy and will never accomplish a reasonable natural physic. *But if they trained correctly for 10+ years they would get to a similar level as anyone else who does. But they wont. and
Yeah, I agree with most of what you said, and it is one of the reasons why I think encouraging people is the better (more useful?) message to spread. Realizing that my own laziness is the biggest factor holding me back has made me get my act together and do what needs to be done on many occasions. It may sound a bit naive, but I think the more people are encouraged to give it their best try, the more people will eventually succeed.
"you need elite genetics" is the only logical conclusion you can argue for when you're trying to downplay the effectiveness of drugs to your audience.
There are three variables: hard work, genetics and drugs. If drugs aren't that effective, you're left with just hard work and genetics. Guys like Greg need a way to explain to their audience why they're putting in hard work and barely seeing results (relative to a steroid abuser). The only logical conclusion? You have shit genetics, and if you want to look remotely decent, you'll have to hop on the sauce. Never mind the fact that natty gains are like, 4x slower than enhanced. It's all bs.
Well said brother.
I agree and it really saddens me that I see more and more people not just online who truly believe in this kind of self limiting thinking
Alex was there like an extra 10 minutes of the video that he watched that none of us did? He keeps saying stuff that you just didnt say. I also feel like Greg is saying a lot to justify his own body dysmorphia and self esteem issues.
Yup, a lot of his points have no relation to my actual arguments. He also ignored a lot of them.
Strawman all the wayy
@@AlexLeonidas yeah man the way he was saying it all too was incredibly condescending
Man's 5'6, talk about poor genetics
@@ZyroSugar HAHAHAHA, idk I used to like his content, but he turned into a fucking crybaby boomer with Napoleon complex and started just saying it's all "genetics" besides, you know.... he was criminally charged for selling illegal drugs.
This was a very level-headed and mature response. You've grown in many ways. I am proud to be a part of your community.
I never understood how people thought looking shredded looks better, having 10-15% bf AND looking solid and not flabby is WAY more impressive imho. Also youll look better in clothes , which is hopefully gonna be 90% of the time.
And fuck looking like henry cavill is propably the biggest wish for most dudes out there.. and i can guarantee that more than that and youre getting into the "not so good looking"category for most women out there. Also props to AlphaDestiny not once picking on the dudes voice, that would be my nr.1 concern if i were greg lol
I've thought this for a while. Half the fitness industry looks malnrouished. I'd rather be more comfortable with my diet at around 15 percent and not have to starve myself and at the same time look healthier I guess. The lean lean look really doesn't look that good even with your shirt off.
As a natural, that has been working out for 2 years now, I appreciate this video. Speaks volumes. Out of all the fitness youtubers that I follow you are one out of two maybe three that are natural. So I appreciate you defending why we should stay natural when so many are jumping on gear. God bless man.
God bless you Aaron! Keep making those natty gains 💪
Well done. You won this debate. His arguments are laughable. Wouldnt be eligible in a real debate.
There is a reason why Greg doesn't do live debates. He is like the master of straw man fallacies
@@theveni12345 And passive aggressive yet preludes with 'i like x person a lot, they are better looking than me...' .
Problem with people who believe their own hype? They fall harder than others as there is no doubt and therefore possibility of learning or improving that which they are so sure of. To be a true master you should endeavour to have a slither of doubt in all aspects of life. Your catharsis and evolutionary possibilities are then limitless.
@@theveni12345 Apparently Leo and Mike Dolce called him out but never responded to them because they have "lower subscribers". I still like Greg mostly though and I am thoroughly entertained by him but this part of him is really sad.
@@samme79 The guy is quite sketchy indeed. He was caught bullying a small time youtuber aswell. I honestly thought Greg was a good guy :/
Greg Doucette really annoyed me this time, I didn't mind him, but now he just cherry-picked Alex's arguments and made him look bad. That's a hypocritical thing to do since he "tells you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear". No, he tells you what he wants you to hear, so it makes him look better so people always think he is right and believe him. His ego is too big and he is "spewing for views". The subs and views turned him into the people he was "exposing"
@Loch F LMFAO
Alex: Makes good points
Greg: References Breaking Bad
Greg's response video should be taught in school on how NOT to debate, love his channel but he's missed the mark completely.
Yeah, Id agree but Alphas isn't a bad example either. He's had a super condescending tone in both of his responses to greg as well. Overall I think he's been mature about it, but the condescension is palpable. Understandable? Yea 100%... but still laying it on a bit thick.
@@yamanosu9463 ? What r u talking ab
Nah please don't say this. It's a disgrace to 99% of debates nowadays. What's funny is that how Greg debated was better than practically most people I've seen in general. Just because greg is wrong or misled here (supposedly) doesn't make the debate wrong per se but how a disagreement should be handled.
@@yamanosu9463 his discomfort is just a natural response to Greg's irritating, condescending overall tone. Imo Alex is wasting time arguing with an ego invested boomer. But I guess it's good for the publicity which he deserves.
@digitalXmage lol TF are you talking about? I'm on Alexs side here
Yeah, even his fans are saying it was a miss.
U made me crave Din Tai Fung man
The fact that my man has promoted natty since day one is the main reason I’m here . Genetics plays a big role . More than most realize but I will never do peds or recommend them to anyone . Alpha is real true and loyal . Great channel .
I have a message for everybody and coach Greg. I started doing sport when I was 10,after 2 years of karate I had to drop out because of a genetic cartilage degenerative condition. I was very skinny, up to high school at 16 yo I was 47 kg ( 104 pound) at 1.75 tall (5 ft 9). I was the weakest of my classrooms, even some girls were stronger than me and all boys were, I was bullied by almost everyone. Then I signed up to a gym. My PT that time was a pro bodybuilder who made me believe I could achieve anything (what would have coach Greg told me? You cannot do it, your genetics sucks?). After 1 year i gained 16 kg (about 35 pound), and my strength level tripled fold on almost everything. I then switched sports a few times: MMA, gymnastics/calisthenics and recently some powerlifting. I am 32 yo still about 5 ft 9 but 84 kg bodyweight (185 pound) at around 15% bodyfat, and drug free/neutral, no PEDs of any sort. Obviously I am not the most jacked or the strongest, but I am for sure one of the top strongest in my gym (where my training mate is a pro card men's physique). I think not too bad for a crap genetic starting. I want everyone that is starting and feeling discouraged to read this carefully and hope it motivates you.
Inspiring story, man! Wish you the best.
What Greg is not getting is, when 2 guys jump on steroids and put on 20lbs in 1yr , the guy that will look better is the guy with the best genetics.
The guy who gained 20lbs with bad genetics will still be bigger, stronger and better than a natural lifter with the best genetics because 20lbs is 20lbs
Not necessarily.Bruce Lee weighed only 140lbs. And few physiques have ever looked more impressive. It comes down to your symmetry. Skin thickness and proportion.
Two men weigh 180lbs. One has a 30 inch waist. The other has a 36 inch waist. Who is likely to look better?
@@fender1000100 the one who is taller has a better face and isn’t half bald . The fitness community online has to so self indulged you guys live on an island . I work out like every day but I stay away from UA-cam fitness and instagram fit tips as much as possible
@@PanosPitsi He was talking about physiques. You brought a bunch of other shit into it. Nobody cares about that shit, this isn't a "looksmaxing" (self improvement as termed by idiot new gens?) vid. It's about developing a nice physique which you can do whether tall or not, bald or with hair or ugly or a nice face. lol.
Greg’s thought process of always wanting more is more revealing of how he thinks as opposed to how the general public feel.
This is the most epic win in any fitness discussion I have ever witnessed! Insanely strong och balanced reply AlphaDestiny, you the man!
Alex Spits facts, I always thought naturals would only get so far and had planned to get on gear when I was older, but when I found Alex’s channel and got NE it changed my life. Natty for life
The disconnect between people who compete and the average person is what’s wrong with Greg’s argument, us that stay natural just want to look better then the average person in my opinion.
I think doucette doesn’t even realize how easy that is to obtain. If you’re lean enough to see an outline of your abs and have been lifting for like 6 months, non gym goers will think you’re elite
@@dylanphillips9781 Exaclty, not everyone wants to compete and that’s totally okay. And for people that want to compete that’s amazing too. But for the average person that goes to the gym for fun/health reasons, will absolutely love their transformation.
Bro I am on TRT now in my mid 30s and I still agree with my philosophy and mindset way back since I worked out as a natural from my teens to my early 30s.
I am no longer natural and accept TRT is enhancement, but I am not even at all interested to go beyond TRT. There simply is no need for it. I just want to feel younger and have more energy as I get older.
Lmao Alex is schooling a guy twice his age. His logic is better, his IQ is higher, he just shoots down every stupid point Greg tried to make with ease. Don’t make another response video Alex. This was checkmate
Yeah, according to Greg saying, Alex has a better intelligence genetic
Roid users imo aren’t mentally mature in many ways. Look at ronnie despite his great accomplishments he has yet to let go and keeps reposting old content to fulfill his empty hole
Are you kidding? Both arguments have massive flaws. Not even close to a checkmate, because both sides are way too far on the extremes. If you knew anything about the real world the truth always lies somewhere in the middle. I agree that Alex is more right but to say he schooled Greg is silly to be honest
Greg also has a master’s degree. 😂
Alex didn't won the chess match he's just genetically 5 steps ahead of greg
I was considering a small first cycle, or sarms, until I discovered your channel. I have been training for only a little over a year and now I realize how stupid I was thinking that steroids are "the magic pill" to get my dream physique. Thanks for educating me about real natural potential, my desired "henry cavill" type of physique is attainable natural, I now know that and will be pushing the natural limits to see how far I can take it.
haven't tuned into alpha destiny in years. glad to see your still here supporting good information. the information you have provided me over the years has been well worth it. i still use so many of the principles and fundamentals. salute
that response was anreally poor response, one of his worse and dislikeable videos, thank you for being professional alex
Did we watch the same vids? Compared to other debates this on the whole was pretty tame. Secondly, both guys have the same core message so this whole debate was kinda useless, except for more content. That being said, I agree more with alpha than Greg but both have flaws in your argument. How you don’t see that too is beyond me
@@HAHA-wy1wh gregs response was worse than his usual videos thats it
Im really sad that many people believe Greg's philosophy, that you just can't improve(after genetic limit), and it's useless, I am only 15 and started training 9 months ago, I can now do dips with 40kg at 65 kg bodyweight (vid on the channel just in case) and before I was watching Greg and I felt something was not right, as soon as I started watching Alex he helped me with so much. Stay strong guys
Greg never said that you can't improve, have you even watched his videos?
You’re an idiot Greg has never said that he’s only said you most likely won’t get your dream physique you’ll get half of it. People’s dream physiques are based off of their favorite fitness influencer which are most likely not natty
@@matankazaz6380 edit
@@jonathancarvajal6189 edit
He philosophy isn't that you can't improve, Greg believes that most people won't get what they aspire to because their aspirations are based on those with elite genetics. One of Alex's positions is that all supposed "amazing genetics people" could very well have genetics for muscle building and strength comparable to us but we don't know because so many of them use so many exogenous substances
If it matters, you fixed my body dysmorphia singlehandedly. The whole "bear mode" thing made me comfortable with my bodyfat after being bulimic, i gained a lot of weight i liked, then leaned back a bit, and you shifted my perspective using reasonable arguments to make me strive for natural people like you (or omar isuf, considering my physique looks closer to his).
So I just wanna say thank you
I've been here since before you hit 190 pounds, and i love your direction
I’ve followed you for some years now and always enjoyed your passion and intellect regarding this subject. I also enjoy CG, he also has shared a good amount of new information. What I respect about you here is your professionalism and honest tone while calming debating the topic. This is how it should be instead of the usual ‘emotions’ taking over. Well done, AD! Fellow Canadian here as well!
“ your potential is much higher than you realize “ absolute facts, most people don’t even train or eat right and once they do then the huge changes kick in.
literally could not agree more. Intent is everything
Road to 300lbs natty
Alex you’re definitely one of biggest influences on me deciding to start natural! I’ve looked deeply into taking sarms and other anabolic, but the fact that my tendons/ligaments won’t keep up at the same pace as my muscle growth really scares me, especially because I’m a powerlifter. So a year ago I decided to learn as much as I can about training, dieting, recovery(all the variables I can control)and I’ve got my physique to a great place. I can see my potential naturally now and I’m in track to achieve the physique I didn’t think I’d be able to naturally in the past. Thanks for everyone Alex!! 💪🏾 💯
you look solid brooo
Dude you look like a tank. Good job I can't imagine how much better you've gotten over the last year. Keep going!
Someone finally calling out Greg for contradicting himself. In his narrow mindset he believes anyone who has muscle must have good genetics and if you don't have muscle you have bad genetics.
"Your potential is much higher than you realize" very honest words, most people quit before they reach their full potential, or stray away into PEDs. Honestly nowadays people blame genetics too oftem for every hardship they endure during their muscle bulding journey, i suspect most people`s genetics are not so diferent. Of course there are exeptions, like Paul Anderson, but those individuals are very rare, more than 1 in a million, and most will never even lift weights because i suspect most of the human population has no acces to gymn equipment or other luxuries like a healty protein rich diet
Alex: 25 years old, uses sophisticated and accurate arguments based on Logic.
Greg: 45 years old. Screams to his 13 year old viewers from his objective steroid abuser view point and uses ‘Greg charts’ and says ‘99.999%’ in every sentence to fool them.
Lol i remember when he was talking about maingaining. He just put up a bar chart as "evidence" but there was no proof at all of what he said
Wait Alex is only 25?
99.97%, not 99.999%
Talking about 13 yo, very mature comment
@@bigc181 I thought he was like 27-30
"non-negotiable if he doe's it right"
I caught that Alex LMAO
Lmao thats just realityyyy
PS: Not bald
Blublop baha is AYLOT bigger than greg
@@NaturalHypertrophy It got taken off by a buzz saw skimming his head back during a training drill in the farm at Langley
Aleeeex!!! Let's go! Taking on the Duce! I'm so glad to see you hold your ground with such confidence, logic and reasoning. Mad respect from a fellow Montrealer/lifetime subscriber. Don't let these UA-cam giants try to push you around. You set the record straight my man!!!
Alex je te fais ce message en français parce que ça vient du cœur. Tu es vraiment une grande influence dans ma vie et mon entraînement. J’admire ta rigueur et ton message.
I think your arguments make way more sense. Very good video!
I dont want to look like chris bumstead.
I'd love to look like Chris Bumstead in terms of height/face/structure/etc., but in terms of muscle mass? Naahhhh
My ideal is Deniro in Raging Bull in the scenes where he's in top shape
I was stuck on same lifts for year due bad programming, this channel really helped me break through what I though was bad genectics. I'm not that strong yet but staying consistent.
By saying you won’t look like Henry cavil even when u take steroids, most ppl think “ if I train natty then I might as well look like dog shit” so they just hop on steroids to get somewhat average, that’s very dangerous that Greg is saying those things imo
Dude, i bet if you show a lean fashion model's body to him, and say i wanna look like that, he would say "no, it's all about genetics" and stuff) This guy reminds me black pill worshipped incels)
The white spit that shows in the corner of Gregs mouth when he's talking sometimes is absolutely disgusting. Looks like he's foaming at the mouth when he speaks.
FINALLY someone talks about this 😂😂. Does he not even have the sensation of spitting or what
@@theblackreaper4395 😂😂😂
Adderal is a hell of drug.
Athlean X has the same thing 😂😂😂😂😂
hahahaha
He seems to not understand that most people don’t want to look like the guys he’s talking about, most want to look like kinobody or sonething
A lot of people would kill to have the physique he has
@@5point0h67 Yeah no duh
Kino body’s on the juice
@@5point0h67 i dont wanna look like greg, even if I had the genetics lol
Yeah I don't think Greg realizes that a solid 'bear mode' physique would count as amazing in many people's opinions (myself included). If someone mentioned 'amazing physique' to me I'd think of anything that looked big, strong and muscular without necessarily having low body fat (so bear mode) as opposed to a super-aesthetic super-shredded
Greg seems to be projecting his own insecurities into the industry. Alex, your message is so refreshing and exactly what many need to hear. Feeling super inspired by you. Great role model and great context. Thank you brother
This was a fantastically put together retort. Damn man as a natural lifter I’m finding you more inspirational than our dear coach.
Greg lost this one.
He loses alot of his debates but his ego cant take it, which is why he claims hes right 99% of the time, and his naive fanboys believe it.
@@ABABABABABABABABABABBBBBB his naive fanboys are the worst
when has he won one???
That’s a simpleton view but sure. Both sides are way to far on the extremes, the truth obviously lies somewhere in the middle. I agree that it lies closer to alpha destiny than Greg but you can’t think in such black and white terms. Both guys have the same core message, and had similar flaws in their argument.
@@yourfriendlyneighbour6529 fanboys of any one person are. I get alpha destiny has some crazy ones as well. Now you can argue that Greg has more since his following is larger, but this goes for every single influencer...
His argument is so bad for powerlifting, you can have terrible benching genetics and great squatting genetics. I’ve squatted 500 for 5+ reps and can barley bench 340.
i am quite proud of myleg genetics for muscle mass but i cant do heavy squats.i wonder if muscle mass is not connected with how heavy you lift.
any tips on squat programming? mine sucks so hard lol
@@dontreadmyname4396 in simplest terms, squat multiple times a week, focus on volume, don’t max out, target weak points with assistance movements, deload once a month and don’t get snapped up. Consistent efforts.
If you would like a more in depth answer I can Dm you on Instagram when I have time.
@@jakeschneider2113 sure, let me know your IG and i'll message you saying "I'm the guy asking about squats"
I agree with you 95% you’re definitely talking sense, the only thing i agree with greg is that its true we never are truly satisfied. We always see our flaws and want to be better. We can become more confident but still look in the mirror and wish we had bigger traps, better abs etc. HOWEVER, most of us aren’t prepared to sacrifice our health to try and achieve what we think we want
bro, your channel is an absolute bright spot in the online lifting community and i appreciate you every day. stay rowdy, bro.
You can be big and strong natty, it make take years and years but we can get there brothers
Sometimes I feel like I will be intermediate forever. Journaling helps
Or we can all "pull a greg"
I just enjoy the journey tbh never settle just keep grinding 😎
I’m definitely not there yet either but half of the reason is I keep switching back and forth between weights and calisthenics. But now I’m doing both and the gains are exploding 😎
@@tribeard5424 Greg was huge natty tho. He has sick manlet genetics.
Yeah when I watched his video I was so confused. I had to check the title if he was responding to the correct person in the video cuz he didn't address most of your arguments. It felt like he was more on the defensive trying to convince us (the viewers) that his opinions are correct. It's funny how he seems to be speaking with complete conviction on the behalf of his audience as if they would agree yet most of them are disagreeing with him under his comments
He's speaking as if every single audience member is competing at the top level. Most of us don't want a whole entire career with bodybuilding and focus on it 24/7. After my 6 months of training when I was 15 I got complements from people for my physique and that was enough to make me feel like I was an IFBB pro lol. But once I started indulging into UA-cam fitness I started to like my physique less and less. It really depends on what you compare yourself to cuz after 6m-1year of training I was better than 90% of people in my school and I felt happier with my physique back then than I do with my much more improved physique now. I'm still content and happy now but because of the desensitisation of seeing shirtless roiders posing online for years, I don't see an individual as impressive when literally I would have been motivated by that same physique when I was 15. Like literally your old baby faced videos even when you used to promote minimalist training back in the day was one of my inspirations and dreams and seemed unattainable at the beginning of my training journey and and now It looks so "basic" (for lack of a better term).
So in conclusion to an IFBB pro bodybuilder I look like shit but to my friends, family and the average person on the street or at a party will definitely be mirin. And thats enough for me and it should be enough for everyone. So who's opinion WOULD YOU value more??? Another Great, logical video. Keep up the natural quality content. 💪💪💪
Alex just in his chair laid back abaolutely calm. Love it! Like a true boss!
Greg gives generally solid advice because his advice is pretty basic, and it makes sense, 80 - 20 rule.
But the main problem with his advice is the same as almost all other steroid users. They have been on it for too long.
That is their perspective, it's what they know and therefore what they preach.
Greg says he competed naturally, years ago, but his unconscious steroid bias shows clearly.
1 His ideology on what I call "genetic elitism", when in reality it's extremely influenced by his career as an IFBB pro. He's used to look up to the standards of the biggest people on the planet.
2 His cookbook and diet is notorious for having a low fat approach. We're talking about sub optimal and even unhealthy levels of fat consumption for the correct function of a natural individual's body. This eating style could only be mantained by a steroid user.
3 "Maingaining" a theorical concept that in practice does not produce significant results with the exception of complete newbies, overweight trainees and yes, steroid users. Being on PEDs would allow you to put on significant amounts of muscle without a caloric surplus.
4 "Train harder than last time", linear, constant progression is simply not possible for a natural at a certain training age, not the same for a steroid user.
In conclusion people should listen carefully and critically to various sources. It's important to keep in mind thst these channels are information sources, nothing more, keep the cult of personality, fanatism and personal bias at bay.
Everything you've said is on point and balanced. I was pretty obsessed with Greg when I first started watching him, but after awhile it started to become repetitive and I already got what I needed from him. I learned that I didn't need to idolize him to gain knowledge about fitness. I could take information from many sources and see what works best for me. We should never base our whole foundation of knowledge on a single person because EVERYONE is fallible. Not every advice from one person works for every single person in the same way.
Alexandre you have my aboslute respect my man from when i started watching your channel 5 years ago till now. Good job man great video good points.
Nailed it Alex. You've matured SO much over the years. Weird to say to someone who I don't know but watching your evolution over time I'm happy for you dude. Keep it up
Most guys with visible abs and a decent amount of muscle would love their physic.
And that physique could be considered elite by the average persons standards.
Yeah, Greg doesn't understand that "amazing" is a subjective term. For him it might be Cgris Bumstead, for me it's Brad Pitt Troy body and etc. But i know everyone has different genetics. But most people are in the middle part of the spectrum.
Finally subscribed to alpha destiny. Binge watched so much of the recent content and working backwards. Greg was/is my favourite UA-camr and started me on my journey.
I just have to say what a fantastically well structured response video and I 100% agree with almost every point you've stated.
You e inspired 1 lifter to stay natty 🏋️♀️
I really did like greg and he makes good points most of the times but this time, he is just simply wrong. Alpha density is on point in this debate and that's the end of it. For greg, if a natural looks good, he has great genetics otherwise not. No consideration about the programming, hard work, consistency whatsoever. I have seen guys having better genetics than me but trained like pussies and i left them in dust after 2 years of training. And i had an upside down V taper, looked like a christmas tree. Now I'm one of the biggest guy in my gym.
So it is possible, just grind through the pain, your body is adaptable and if you put it in a position where it has to grow, then there is no choice for your body but to grow!
The only thing actually on point and I like about Greg's channel is the best veggie and best fruit series. Maybe the best exercise theories, but that is a stretch.
You must have top tier elite supreme god-mode genetics
@@treasurewuji8740 yeah agreed, actually his older videos were the ones with some real knowledge.
@@ReyRestore lol, actually some of my friends started saying you have great genetics when i surpassed them, and yeah i think i did. I was not genetically a bitch like them, so i trained hard. My motivation was CT fletcher.
You're delusional. Greg never implied naturals who look great don't work hard, that it's only down to good genetics. It's the same stupid argument as saying steroid users who are huge don't work hard.
Greg himself got an amazing physique naturally after years of training, and he says about himself he has great genetics, but does that mean he just says he has good genetics and doesn't have to train hard and smart? Of course not
This video was harder than last time
I think you did a great job at responding to each argument in a logical manner. Glad I found the channel.
You're the best! After all these years Fitness is not the only thing I benefit from your channel, confidence, intelligence and many other things... you have no idea!
Unfortunately this is what always happens with Greg when he's not picking on low-hanging fruits. He takes small clips out of context and screams over them to make it appear as if his viewpoint is the only logical conclusion.
One could give him the benefit of the doubt that maybe his attention span isn't that long or that he has made up his mind before watching the video and hears exactly what he expects, not what the person actually says. But since those problems only seem to creep up when somebody legitimately challenges his statements I really can't help but see it as a malicious way to discredit someone in front of his audience.
Pretty much this. He doesn't appear to have actually watched the videos. He just gets the gist of the viewpoint and tries to argue against what he thinks it is.
Been watching you for years! You really have matured, great responses both times, you definitely won this argument. Greg has skewed ideas about how people want to look! Keep it up mate, great channel!
Daaaamn Alex. I am a fan of Greg and has always thought of him as a person who tells it like it is, but in this case you are absolutely right. He made it look like you said things you did not, and the fact that you can sit calmly and talk about it, just shows how respectful you are.
I also love the fact you said that you will keep promoting natural gainz. Keep up the good work. Much repect!
I need watch your original video, came here from Enkiri's video which was also excellent. Brilliant video lad👌
This segment just made me like Alphadestiny harder than last time.
I used to think I had bad genetics when I was running terrible bro splits with crappy diets and zero exercise science knowledge. After 2 years of running a decent programme, I'm bigger than I ever thought I would be and I feel like I'm just getting started!
Me: I passed my math test
Greg: you just have good genetics
Me: what? I just studied for it
Me: I failed my science test
Greg: You have bad genetics for excelling in that area of study
Me: you realize I just skipped that class and never did any of the work right?
*Later that year*
Me: I passed my science class
Greg: you have good genetics to have excelled so quickly
Me: Nah I just cheated
Greg: Just means you had good genetics as a foundation to excel with cheating.
Me: ight imma head out.
great fucking comment, this is gregs worst fucken problem
difference is everyone can take a math test , not everyone can walk into a gym and bench 450.
@@jeffsanders5444 you’ve effectively taken my example and said not everyone can look like Chris bumstead... no shit Sherlock
@@jeffsanders5444 noooooo mentally disabled people cant take a math test and the viseversa most of the physichally disabled poeple cant bench
@@archlifts947 False. Mentally disabled people can take a math test, but they'll just fail miserably ;D. Physically disabled people can bench all day long, if their upper body works. Paralympics have some great benchers.
Alex schooled Greg on this lol damnnnnnnnnn non negotiable
Agree with alex and i really commend this video. You have grown up a lot comparing it to past responses, awesome alex!
Greg keeps saying “think about your dream physique, you’re not getting it” idk bout others but me personally I don’t have a dream physique. I simply want to be bigger than I am now
Bigger and better than last time, no?
Gold nugget -- value the PROCESS and you've already "won."
Exactly. I think having a dream physique is partially whats gonna give u body dismorphia and push u to peds
@@Tom-vu1wr exactly cos you’ll do anything to try get it whereas if u just focus on being better than u are now putting on size and strength you will be happy with yourself
@@jimmydaley8305 It's the journey that matters is my favorite philosophy in this context. Enjoy every moment you go to the gym, enjoy every bit of progress you make on a lift. Just enjoy the experience and you'll keep a healthy mindset
Alex you keep that level headedness and integrity strong.
kalimera 👍
I can see both of your sides and agree with both 😂 part of me, the realistic side would be happy if I can just lean down to 85 ish kgs and put on maybe another 5kgs over the next few years... But I also have that hungry side, that would love to look like what social media puts out, the side that contemplates taking PEDs... But the natty realistic side has won the last 10 years, and I say will keep winning!
Why did I ever stop watching you alpha destiny? I miss your videos and I've started binging your stuff again! Much love bro!
Most avarege poeple don't wanna look like Chris Bumstead like Greg said,most people wanna look like Brad Pitt in fight club,but i agree that dream physique really dosen't exist.
He literally admitted it lol
@@AlexLeonidas The quote "even if I can make one person stay natural" was amazing, thank you
Unrelated but *Bumstead*
@@theblackreaper4395 not the best at spelling names lmao,fixed it
@@ardexis3627 Respect for acknowledging that and not attacking like people do these days 👍
The Will Tennyson squat argument made no f**ing sense because Greg has a hip injury and barely even squats these days. They were squatting like 365 lbs for less than 10 reps which really isn't elite at all
365lbs*
@@ahmarcamacho8404 Corrected, I wasn't sure if it was 365 but I didn't want to underestimate
But he beat COACH GREG only people with ELITE genetics could ever beat him
@@RueRyuzaki6 lmfao
Didn't even realize it was 365 either. That's way lower than I thought.. only strengthens my argument more lol
Also check out the pinned comment by Candito
you killed it in this video! Very informative by going through each claim
That's the first time i came across your channel and i agree with everything you said, that's what we see in real life i see people amazed by a physique of someone who trained just for ONE year, so yeah
This video is so true man, I just feel like Greg keeps talking about genetics and the shit is absolutely ridiculous, I had “awful” genetics I was training for years and had a 95lb bench and 100lb squat at the end of years of training. The second I start going on long term bulks and cuts with protein on point and my training routine on point; I found myself making PR’s every week and building the physique I’ve always wanted and now I get told I have “great genetics” because I got my deadlift over 500lbs and a decent physique from doing everything properly for a couple years. Like what the hell lol, the debate about genetics and needing gear to look good is getting absurd and alpha destiny is completely right in this.
I was skinny fat all the way thru high school. 6 foot tall 140bs with a gut. If you looked at me you'd say "Bad genetics". I lifted for 2 years
and passed 275 bench at 160lbs that's not even with a good diet and program. So at that point I had good genetics. No I'm just 190lb fat not skinny fat so now I have bad genetics again. You cant just look at someone and tell good genetics. The whole argument is stupid.
@@TheEthan3037 hahaha exactly, the shit is so stupid. Decent physique at the time present == good genetics to most bros I guess 😂
@@nathanielwoodbury2692 totally discredits the hard work and discipline that's required to put into it. I didn't get to to an "advanced" bench press bc of genetics I did it because I went to the gym 4-5x a week for 2 years. the program, diet, and adherence is way more important than genetics given you don't have a disorder or something.
The beautiful thing about powerlifting is you’re always going to have better leverages for one lift and worse leverages for another unless you’re right in the middle on all three. There’ll never be someone who holds a record in all three lifts simply because there’ll always be someone who specializes in one of the three lifts and that’s based on anthropometry alone. It’s not perfect, but it’s an incredibly balanced sport, in my opinion.
Good point man.
Eddie Hall could've had both deadlift and bench records I'm almost sure. He is known for his brutal pressing strength yet held the deadlift WR for so long.
The more I watch this kind of discussion the more I feel that most people should worry about something else other than their physiques. It just fucks you up mentally and it is not objective. In my case I found out after working out for a while that strength training was my thing