Expensive vs. Value Wine - Can you taste the difference?
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- Опубліковано 30 бер 2024
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I use this wine key: Forge de Laguiole Ebony
I have used this glass in this Video: Nude Glass Stem Zero Delicate White Wine Glass
I have tasted the following wines in this Video:
2019 Susana Balbo Wines Brioso, Agrelo, Argentina
www.wine-searcher.com/find/su...
2022 Baettig Los Compadres Vino de Vinedo Cabernet Sauvignon, Maule Valley, Chile
www.wine-searcher.com/find/ba...
2016 Mount Eden Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon, Santa Cruz Mountains, USA
www.wine-searcher.com/find/mn...
2016 Chateau Pichon-Longueville au Baron de Pichon-Longueville, Pauillac, France
www.wine-searcher.com/find/pi...
2016 Chateau Tronquoy, Saint-Estephe, France
www.wine-searcher.com/find/tr...
2020 Poggio al Tesoro 'Il Seggio' Bolgheri, Tuscany, Italy
www.wine-searcher.com/find/po...
The 100 Point Scoring System (from www.robertparker.com):
96-100: An extraordinary wine of profound and complex character displaying all the attributes expected of a classic wine of its variety. Wines of this caliber are worth a special effort to find, purchase and consume.
90 - 95: An outstanding wine of exceptional complexity and character. In short, these are terrific wines.
80 - 89: A barely above average to very good wine displaying various degrees of finesse and flavor as well as character with no noticeable flaws.
70 - 79: An average wine with little distinction except that it is soundly made. In essence, a straightforward, innocuous wine.
60 - 69: A below-average wine containing noticeable deficiencies, such as excessive acidity and/or tannin, an absence of flavor or possibly dirty aromas or flavors.
50 - 59: A wine deemed to be unacceptable.
The biggest enemy of wine might not be what you think it is.
Is expensive wine always better? is a question I am often asked. And the simple answer is “No”. There is a correlation between the price of a wine and its quality, but it gets weaker and weaker the higher the price gets. A 20-dollar bottle of wine is usually significantly better than a two-dollar bottle of wine - Yes, they exist in some markets.
Most winemakers want to make the best wine possible but if you are not able to sell your product above 2 Dollars your hands are tied. Talent can only compensate for so much and even the most talented winemaker cannot make Grand Cru quality wine from Vin de France quality grapes.
At some point, however, the most high-end viticulture and winemaking techniques stop contributing to the quality. You can only drive down yields to a certain point and the price of new Barriques is also capped. This is why a 200-dollar bottle doesn’t have to be that much better than a 20-dollar bottle - in some cases, it can even be worse.
The price of a super expensive bottle of wine is not just determined by cost but by demand or in some cases marketing strategies. That means for us, that when we close our eyes and disconnect ourselves from the brand in front of us, we might make beautiful discoveries from lesser-known regions or producers.
Leon has selected six wines that are all made from the same grape variety or varieties. They likely come from different places and one of them is much more expensive than the others. I will blind-taste the wines to find out whether it makes sense to spend much more on a bottle or not…
"A twenty dollar bottle is usually significantly more expensive than a two dollar bottle..."
It is very hard to argue with that) 0:12
He's not a Master of Wine for nothing.
The sentence of all sentences
Did he mean or say expansive rather than expensive?
You beat me (us) to it :)
Yes, usually, but apparently not always
For that sentence, he should be sentenced to drink a two dollar bottle of wine... the ENTIRE bottle ;-)
Truth #1) The more expensive the wine, the higher the CHANCE of getting a good wine. Truth #2) There is no point to drink a expensive wine if you don't know how to appreciate it - either by itself or food matched. Truth # 3) Wines between £15 and £40 is the range you get the best price/value. Truth #4) Adjust your expectations. Your taste can be different of the qualities associated to a good wine. Truth #5) Drink whatever you want and don't drink to impress.
I would also add: the higher the price point, the bigger the chance of being profoundly disappointed (esp if you’re dealing with older wine). The sweet spot, for me, is somewhere in the bottom middle-$30-50 bottles with the fruit and winemaking that can sometimes get you to 95% of the top of the heap examples, but also don’t make you want to jump off a bridge when they are just ok or, even worse, end up corked (with no chance for exchange, coming from the cellar).
I've been buying and cellaring wines for well over 40 years and this video is the essence of enjoying wine. I've opened and poured wines that were stunningly expensive, but finding wines that are enjoyable and affordable on a daily basis is my on going wine quest. The added benefit is that when I identify a exceptionally well made wine at a value price, it's time to share this information with my other wine friends. I often host a "Kissing Frogs" wine gatherings where I gather inexpensive wines and blind taste them with friends to see if one of them is a "Prince". It's great fun and sometimes a surprising "Prince" is found.
While I subscribe to many wine channels, your content is the best that I've found.
The most fun thing about these expensive vs cheap wine videos is that you can literally do them over and over again and you'll never run out of different wines across all sorts of price points to compare. It will *always* be relevant and entertaining.
Thanks!
Do you have a video on the Pinot Noirs from the central Otago? I’d be interested to see you try them
You really put yourself out there, Konstantin. Love to see you struggle a little and then land multiple solid hits. You rock.
Maybe it would be worth to discuss also the development potential for each of these wines. As mentioned the Pichon should have at least 10 years ahead (2016 was a great vintage), therefore right now (2024) might not be at its peak. On the contrary the most simple Bolgheri might be ready and at its peak right now. In other words, once comparing the quality/value of the wines, we should probably compare them in the same context, for example comparing them at their “peak” of development. It is understood that this won’t be easy to be done on video since it adds another complexity in selecting not just different wines but also different specific vintages. Anyway great video as usual!!!
As a rule of thumb, I have found that the higher the price, the more the bottle wants some cellar time to come into its best version. So if I taste the $25 dollar bottle beside the $100 bottle and they are six year old and from the same vintage, everyone will probably enjoy the $25 bottle more. But if I compare the six year old $25 bottle to a 12 year old $100 bottle, my guess based on my experience, is that more people will like the $100 bottle. Vintage variation could affect this somewhat but let's not use a terrible vintage against the vintage-of-the-century.
@@marknelson8724 I fundamentally agree in general terms and that was exactly the underlying message behind my comment. Nevertheless there might be also some expensive wines which doesn’t need much cellar to be at their best
I was honestly saying "Argentina" for the first one with that colour and the dark fruit, Susana Balbo is making quite good red wine here, even if she's more recognized for her Torrontes and her beautiful Rosé Signature. Cheers!
You’re a good man! Thanks for taking chances. And thanks to Leon for finding these interesting wines.
Love this channel!!! Great video again
Great stuff... love watching you working out what the varietal is/ isn't... while also attempting to do the same at the same time - tis fascinating & very enjoyable! 🍷😊
What a way for me to start this Easter Sunday… thoroughly enjoyed the tasting. Thank you so much as always!
A nice addition in tastings like this would be a table or list of your ratings vs cost at the end.
Second this!
Yet another great video ! So many things you mention in your videos help confirm impressions I've had but were unsure of due to the conventional wisdom taught. Thanks, and I'm still thirsty!
So good to know that some cheaper wines can compete with some expensive wines since I am a poor man. I always enjoy purchasing a wine that I have never had before with the cautious optimism that it might be very pleasant while being very affordable. Another great video. Too bad about the corked bottle. BTW, your English is impeccable. I was wondering if you spoke any other languages besides German and English. You seem to pronounce French words as though you speak that language.
Excellent tasting Konstantin! Pichon Baron is one of my favorite Bordeaux wines. Number 6 seemed one to seek out. Cheers 🥂
We're always learning from the Master! Thank you Sir and keep up the good work! Cheers!
We love Daou from Paso Robles. Their entry level Cabernet Sauvignon is fantastic value for money
Thank you for your hard work and sacrifice in tasting 6 wines for us 😆. Love watching your videos and your non snobbish way
Leon - sneak a few Canadian wines into these tastings if you can find them. Mission hill Oculus would have done well in this one! 😉
Nice Easter video. I learn so much from you, often things I wonder about but don’t have the experience to find out.
That’s great to hear!
Deep Woods Estate Cabernet Merlot from Margaret River in Western Australia is a fantastic wine, and at around $30 is amazing value for money.
Another great video BTW!
Actually i think the good Cru bourgeois from Bordeaux is the best value for this blend. Really good ones for 10€ and great ones for 25-30 (Meney, Poujeaux, Chasse-Spleen, Gloria, Siran etc.) as usual a good video, thanks to Konstantin and happy Easter!
I agree and would add my favourite of this category : sociando mallet, which is a tad bit more expansive but truly great year after year.
I agree that these wines are good value.
But I had a Chasse-Spleen 2009 the other day and wasn't realy impressed (rather a lttle bit disappointed). To be impressed by an aged wine you usually have to spend some more money.
I was thinking nearly the same thought-the best values in Cabernet-based wines are coming from the lesser-known Bordeaux estates, at least when the vintage years are good. I wouldn’t put Gloria in that “value” category, as it has definitely crept up in price recently, but otherwise I agree. It is hard to pick a specific producer, though. What I would recommend is to find a good local wine shop which sends knowledgeable people to industry tasting events (or to Bordeaux itself) and go with their recommendations. You can get some very enjoyable, even age worthy wines from Bordeaux in the range of $12-$30. They won’t match the pinnacles of the Grands Crus, nor the year over year consistency, but you can drink very well at a small fraction of the price.
Yeeeessss you finally tried Poggio al Tesoro! Every bordeaux blend video you post I comment about it. Great value Bolgheri and Sondraia (Il Seggio’s big bro) is one of my favs. Il Seggio is fantastic as well, I mean… 94p for 25 euros is nuts
Sondraia was also on sale for 25 euros about 5 years ago, now is 3x that amount 😞
This was an excellent video. It's a real testament to what makes wine so interesting. Bravo Konstantin. Can we have more of this, please?
Tony
Nice one :)
My favourite bargain Bordeaux Blend is from Trapiche in Argentina, at around $23.
The best single varietal Cab Sauv I have ever tasted was last Christmas (2014 Heitz Cellar, from Napa Valley)
These blends are a great way to happen upon delicious bargains. Most New World red wine blends are relatively reliable so if you pay just a SOUPCON over rock bottom, occasionally you will happen upon a noble and delicious bottle of fruity wine, enough to make very glad the heart..
Nice one Konstantin. 🍷🌟👍
FUN BLIND MAN BLUFF !!!! excellent tutorial. Keep up the good work !
Ha, great! The Bordeaux varietals video. Thank you now I got new wines to hunt. Also Pauillac provides my current favourite wine, Chateau Clerc Milon
I've seen my share of blind wine tasting, this was by far the hardest. Here you see a master at work.
The real question is, what would be a fair price for these? How much would you have paid for it blind, based on its quality alone? If it tastes like a 50€ bottle... Maybe it isn't worth 200.
That is exactly what these guys from down under are doing: ua-cam.com/video/tThEpp6YqdM/v-deo.htmlsi=1EZCtGsgRpSctOun
That's not a question that can be answered. "Fair" is too hard to define. Here in Switzerland, I know a few producers that sell out pretty early and I always wonder why they don't charge more for their wine. They clearly could and enough people seek their wines. Others have the connections and do proper marketing, labeling, and manage to place a lot of their wine at higher prices. At the end is how expensive can you sell your wine and still have a following. Everything sells for the fair price. If you are looking for good value, do your homework and taste every wine in your region of choice until you find one you like and who is owned by perhaps a not so flashy owner or someone who is less good at advertising. You will not be able to fit the masses and brag because you will be the only one following a wine nobody else follows. That's the nature of price/value.
@@rojassoulA producer who sells out pretty early and doesn't charge more for his wine is fair.
No, unfortunately not everything sells for the fair price...
@@rojassoul There is a fair price, otherwise we wouldn't be able to talk about quality-price ratio. QPR is when the price matches the quality, and that would be the fairest price to pay for a bottle.
@@johnd0e25 , there isn't a "fair" price, objectively speaking. Because price is just one of the many wheels of what we call a free market. In my opinion, quality is not quantifiable just by price alone. A fair price is just what anyone thinks it is. And it always depends on how much anyone is willing to pay for a bottle of wine. We seldom forget that most of the consumers out there are not willing to pay more than 10 Euros/USD for a bottle of wine. That's a fact. Whether we like it or not, cheap wine is the only one responsible for keeping the cash flow alive in this business. So, if you consider that a 25 Euros bottle of wine has a fair price and a great qpr, that's just you and some others willing to pay so much money for it. For the consumers I mentioned above, that bottle would be clearly overpriced.
Not at all surprising about Mount Eden's performance and likeness to Bordeaux. Their wines, both red & white, always stump me in blinds. In fact, many producers from Santa Cruz Mountains come off as old world in blinds. Cheers to Mount Eden, really high quality stuff!
Amazing video as always. Mt Eden was a curveball but you did fantastic describing it.
Great video as always. Certainly some viewers have $200 wines in their budget, but most don't. For me, I would love to see three $20 bottles up against three $35 bottles. That's the choice I'm usually deciding between. And while a tasting that includes wines from around the globe can be entertaining, I think for practical reasons I would like to see how price matters by country. How does a $20 New Zealand wine stack up against a $35 New Zealand wine? And the same for France, Spain, Germany, the US, etc. I suspect that in some countries you get more for your money but in others, less so. Another fun comparison would be gimmicky labels vs not. How do the "Fat Bastards" of the world stack up against similarly priced wines that aren't trying so hard to be clever.
It seems as though corked wines are rarer than in the past , thankfully. Screwtops always are perfect.
I've had bad wine under a screwcap
Chile has some great bargain Cabernets, and Languedoc, but I love Coonawara for that pure cassis character at low prices.
Cab blends can be some of the very best value hard hitting monster reds! Bang for buck, a charming dinner wine all will love, I applaud Rustenberg Stellenbosch John X Merriman Bordeaux blend 14.5% with 20 months oak - subtle, supple, charming, bold
great video...!
Great video again! Super enjoyable! When u said mint u can smell in the 2nd one, i was sure it's from Chile 😀
fascinating video😊
I'm glad that the Pichon Baron wasn't the one that was corked😂😂. It's my favorite wine.
Really enjoyed this video! On my own, without recommendations, I tend to gravitate toward Paso Robles, CA to get the most bang for my buck. I really like Bordeaux but, when entertaining, people here in Arizona really prefer the big California taste.
I was recently at an eye-opening tasting of E. Guigal wines. Two CdRs (red and white), then three Northern Rhone syrahs. There was a Crozes-Hermitage and Saint-Joseph, which were great and in the $30-$40 range. The last wine was a $180 Cote-Rotie. Wow, it was beautiful, so vibrant and intoxicating. It was definitely a cut above the other wines. But was it worth $180??? Hmm.
Very nice tasting!
Greetings from Brazil!
coincidentally i have the Brioso in my cellar and also the pichon baron 2016.
Was looking for the il seggio here it is priced at around 90 euros…
Los Vascos Gran Reserva Cab from Chile is a great value IMHO. You can find it for about 20 USD. Love your content Konstantin. Keep up the good work!
The last one indeed good vfm, i drunk some their orher vintages, very good!
Love your content. Would love to see your opinion on some Brazilian Wines.
Any plans on continuing the series with Riesling?
Fun video! San Leonardo’s second wine “Terre” for 25$ in the US is the best value for me. I also like to pick up the second wines of classified Bordeaux estates when i can find them with some age. 2012 prieure lichine confidences was great.
Great video, as always. I think my favourite is Tignanello in this case, but I also love the Passi di Orma. They differ much in price. Tignanello has been around for some time and always with good quality. Passi di Orma is newer and isn t made to be on the same pedistal as Tignanello. I reckon producers test the market to see the demand of their product. I wonder how much a wine scribent such as Parker or Suckling can influence the price?
Thanks again and dont forget to drink water ; )
Surprised to see the Pichon Baron 2016 not standing out more...I tried it last year, it was mindblowing and easily one of the best young bdx I tasted in the recent times
Great!!!
Great video, as always. Very interesting, informative. Question on corked wine: I have friends who sort of blame the winemaker for corked wines. Other than maybe the choice to NOT use a screw cap, I thought it was not in the winemakers control. Curious your thoughts. Also: I am told that I should get a full refund on a corked wine. Fair enough…but what if I’ve stored the wine for, say, three years? Should I still get a refund, or is it on me at that point?
Thank you. The winemaker usually gets to decide whether the wine is sealed with a cork or not and if they use cork they get to choose the cork. So "yes" it is their "fault" but if you want to use natural cork you cannot rule out that some corks might be faulty. Whether you get a full refund depends on your retailer. Most will exchange the wine but some will not.
Cavas de Weinert Gran Vino is a great bargain bdx blend. Always good in any vintage ive tried and comes matured, but may also be further cellared.
My favourite Bordeaux blends these days are from Argentina. Many of them are Malbec based, but Mascota makes an excellent Cabernet Sauvignon based blend called Unanime. Great value at around $25.
Hello Konstantin
What is your apenion abaut wine aroma sets for training?
Best regards
Thomas
I love your blind tasting videos. It would help if you added details of the wines in the description panel, it would save lots of pausing to establish what the wines actually are 😊
The wines are always in the description
A wine under 30 euros taking the crown for best qpr (il seggio at 94p) 👍. Please also take into account that il seggio is not cabernet sauvignon based (30%), but rather merlot (40%)... only if you factor in the 20% cab franc you get a majority of cab in there, complemented by 10% petit verdot. Great vid!
Love these tastings 🙌
Il seggio is mine and my girlfriends most precious secret! So much fun seeing it on the channel!
I had a couple of weeks ago, a Chateau Deyrem Valentin 2018,from Margaux, which was corked. I have another 4 bottles of it, but I drank one yesterday and it was not corked.
What wines do you drink regularly? Do you have a video on that?
Price setting has many variations to consider. U can’t set lower than ur distributors retail price, cost of marketing if u want wider market, cost of labeling and packaging to be catchy, if the wine is part of a listed company then revenue has to be higher every year etc.
Favorite Cabs dramatically different Beaulieu Vineyards George De La Tour and Chateau Ducru-Beaucaillou.
The ‘16 Pichon Baron is one of my all time favorites. Ninety five points indeed.
I prefer burgundy but if going for a bargain I do enjoy: Estancia Reserve Meritage at 28$US.
0:12 I know you’re talking about law of diminishing returns but that’s just too funny 😂
Is it?
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine It is.
Saint-Estèphe AOC Cru Bourgeois Exceptionnel Château Lilian Ladouys is certainly worth a try for 20 to 25 euro.
Konstantin has asked about the favorite bargain Caberernet Sauvignon.
Probably you can't call a wine for 70 EURO a "bargain wine", but I think the Sammarco from Castello dei Rampolla is really worth the price.
@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine - could you make a blind tasting of standard sparkling wines? e.g. Raumland, Krack, RvB and Griesel - with their entry sparkling wines for under €20? That would be awesome (and quite helpful).
I did a tasting with German Sekts a few months ago.
Circa 10:47 , is that some of the "corked" wine in the bottom of the glass?
Nope. I often wash out the previous wine with the next wine. In this case I used the new wine to rinse out the glass before pouring a glass of the new (not corked) wine.
Love the Coonawarra cabarets with the Balnaves sitting right there close to the top. there is also nothing wrong with tha West Australian cabarets and blends. Sadly none of them in the mix
Palpite from Alentejo is largely cab and unbelievably good for the price!
drinking a bit of zinfandel bourbon barrel aged wine to this video
Was bei den Blind Tastings cool wäre, wenn es eine Art Notiz mit den vorher genannten Facts + Punktzahl und später Punktzahl beim Endfazit
(z.B. über den Flaschen) mit Preisen geben würde.
One can often partly save a corked wine by scrunching up a bunch of plastic wrap and sticking it into the bottle. After a day or two, the wine will likely be decent, if not as it should be...
Too bad about the Saint-Estephe, I feel there's is very good value to get there!
Interesting that the Italian wine was almost as good as the expensive one. Italy does produce very good value wines imo.
Chateaunuef du pape or Catena Zapata for 45-60usd hits the spot.
I buy and drink across the range, a bottle that delivers more than its price tag is really not that cheap, because you have to drink a lot of not nice bottles at the same price to find it! So the all-in cost is not lower
Los Álamos Malbec is quite tasty and well made…go to wine for people that just like to guzzle at a party
Nowadays there is technology enough to make a wine as good as the best and with a reasonable price, just cooking into the winery because the law it’s quite different regarding from which country the wine comes, so today the experience being nice doesn’t make any sense, many thanks for your videos and information
I have seen Malbec cabernet like wine 1.🌟👍
Clos Manou is my favourite bargain..............
Sad for Tronquoy Lalande .. its a great value for money
I have a video suggestion. Would you please give your opinion as to the benefits of real corks for ageworthy red wines? I've heard that they allow a miniscule amount of air into the bottle, but also that they are so long as to not allow any air in, even over decades of cellaring. Do corks play a beneficial role in ageing wines, particularly the top Bordeaux reds and port? I am traditional and like corks for old reds, but if they don't matter in reality I will have to change my opinion.
I made a video on closures a while back
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine I will search for it and watch it. Thank you. I do enjoy your videos. You make us feel like we're there with you, sniffing and tasting the wines by your side.
Hey! I was right. Cabernet Malbec.. 🍷🌟👍
How do you calculate the points? I mean how they add up or what do you deduct points for?
I always have the explanation of the scores in the description
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine thanks, what I mean is let's say in the "96-100: An extraordinary wine of profound and complex character displaying all the attributes expected of a classic wine of its variety. Wines of this caliber are worth a special effort to find, purchase and consume." category, what makes it 99 vs 96 points? is it just a feel? or there is a written down actual methodology?
I occasionally pay up to about $50 USD for a bottle but rarely higher. I’d guess my average these days is around $30. Most reds under that amount and most whites under $20 these days usually aren’t worth it. I’d rather have a good beer than a mediocre, boring or lousy wine.
Best bargain Cab.? There are a lot. You can find bargains in practically all over the place except for USA and Australia. Top four places for Cab. bargains: Bordeaux, Tuscany, Argentina, Chile.
Unfortunately today you have to work hard to find some good price/quality Bolgheri wines as in the last years prices have skyrocketed, and differently from Bordeaux they have a much lower production which keeps prices up (especially for older vintages)
happy egg day you master of wine you. marvelous tasting
Thank you 🙏
I dont really even like cab (especially from Bdx). My favorite is Loire Domaine Bablut Rocca Nigra.
Konstantin is not afraid to say what he really thinks about wine, unlike the lady (Agnes?) from No Sediment who bases her opinions on the price/brand value of a wine. To her, higher price = exclusivity = harder to appreciate = unique taste. What else can we expect from an industry player
That's not fair. She's actually said multiple times she doesn't think expensive means good wine. It's just in her blind taste on that video, it happened to work out that way.
@@rnjbond as long as theres a connotation rather than an association, its insinuation already. more expensive = more complex. now, she can continue to yap on about how not everyone has the budget or the ability/time to appreciate complexity, which she goes on to say its fine and one can have wine without understanding the process and history behind the wine, but then she continues to tout and promote famous/branded names like Sassicaia, saying that one should ALWAYS try it when given the opportunity, and scoring them 96,97 points despite the fact that numerous blind-tastings of young sassicaia performed dismally against 2nd/3rd growth bordeaux which were half the price. truth is, most of these wine experts refuse to blind-taste without knowing the producer, because they cant afford to slander or go against the grain.
Chateau Meymey St.julien
Such a shame about the Tronquoy because it's such a giant killer 😢
Wine❤
After 30 years of enjoying wine I'd say that expensive wine is value wine that got recognition at some stage.
Take the Noval National Vintage Port, for instance. It cost 1.2k euros.
The Magalhães Vintage Port is produced no more than 2km away and costs 60 euros.
Is there anything so different in the soil and methods worth one to cost 20 times more than the other?
Of course not. Still it happens.
Same with several wineries around the ones producing the famed Petrus wine: same soil, same grapes, same techniques, yet they cost, again, 1/30th of the Petrus.
Mind you that I've organized several blind tastings with somm friends that couldn't distinguish the 5000€ bottle from their 120€ next door neighboor.
If I'm not mistaken I believe the Nacional from Noval is made from a parcel with very old pre-phylloxera vines thus extremely rare and exclusive. So in this case it's not the soil or the methods but the vines that have caused the market lunacy to step in 🫨
👍👍 If only Cabernet didn't give me a significant headache!
Allergic to CS?!
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine allergic to the tannins. San Giovasia will do the same thing, Pinot Noir usually won't. 🤷
Shame about the tronqouy lalande, great bordeaux at a good price
Never taste a corked wine if you know it's corked. Trust your nose.